New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

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squirm
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New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by squirm » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:56 pm

Basically the title says it all. Old neighbors of 25 years, moved out. New neighbors bought the house with cash (Bay Area). Now they want to turn it into a vacation rental. Everyone on the block is upset, we are in a small semi-rural area, people coming and going doesn't fit with the characteristics of the neighborhood.
What are our options?

randomguy
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by randomguy » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:08 pm

squirm wrote:Basically the title says it all. Old neighbors of 25 years, moved out. New neighbors bought the house with cash (Bay Area). Now they want to turn it into a vacation rental. Everyone on the block is upset, we are in a small semi-rural area, people coming and going doesn't fit with the characteristics of the neighborhood.
What are our options?


You could check with your local zoning board to see if it is allowed.

To some extent this is the risk of living in an area without HOAs. You get to do what you want. But so do your neighbors...

freebeer
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by freebeer » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:49 pm

squirm wrote:Basically the title says it all. Old neighbors of 25 years, moved out. New neighbors bought the house with cash (Bay Area). Now they want to turn it into a vacation rental. Everyone on the block is upset, we are in a small semi-rural area, people coming and going doesn't fit with the characteristics of the neighborhood.
What are our options?


Uh if you are on a "block" that's not semi-rural in my book, that sounds like suburbia. You should probably be happy they aren't making it assisted living for Alzheimer's patients or something worse.

Of course you and your neighbors could band together and offer to buy the house and make it pay as a long-term rental property if it was that important to you...

mouses
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by mouses » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:16 am

My sympathies. I have relatively new neighbors, and they rent their house out as a party house. The town noise ordinance is toothless. Let me recommend Bose QC25 noise cancelling headphones in that situation.

However, if the renters are just vacation people and quiet, you are better off than that.

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Watty
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Watty » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:28 am

randomguy wrote:
squirm wrote:Basically the title says it all. Old neighbors of 25 years, moved out. New neighbors bought the house with cash (Bay Area). Now they want to turn it into a vacation rental. Everyone on the block is upset, we are in a small semi-rural area, people coming and going doesn't fit with the characteristics of the neighborhood.
What are our options?


You could check with your local zoning board to see if it is allowed.

To some extent this is the risk of living in an area without HOAs. You get to do what you want. But so do your neighbors...


+1

Even if it is allowed the house would likely have to meet additional building code requirements as a short term rental property. This could possibly include things like having fire sprinklers and being handicap accessible. If it allowed they should know that it is being used as a short term rental so they can check to see if all the necessary permits, business licences, and inspections are in order.

reason-logic
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by reason-logic » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:27 am

Perhaps band together with your neighbors and try to buy the property, otherwise it is his right to use his property to make income, provided he is not violating any laws.

mouses
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by mouses » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:12 am

reason-logic wrote:Perhaps band together with your neighbors and try to buy the property, otherwise it is his right to use his property to make income, provided he is not violating any laws.


People shouldn't have to have a pile of money to have decent living conditions. I see this argument all the time. "If you want to save this historic house that we are planning to tear down to build a McMansion, come up with millions of dollars to buy it." No, the newcomers doing a number on a neighborhood's character should instead buy someplace that has their values (or lack thereof.)

desiderium
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by desiderium » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:36 am

In my municipality vacation rentals (as opposed to long term rentals) require a "conditional use permit". This is the case in a number of places but of course not everywhere. Check with your jurisdiction. If it is a legal use, you will probably need to wait until your neighborhood has an actual complaint to lodge.

Twins Fan
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Twins Fan » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:41 am

squirm wrote:What are our options?


Move? :happy

As mentioned, if no zoning/law/rule violations are happening, probably not much you can do.

If it's a small semi-rural and quiet area, it will probably attract folks that would want to vacation there and will probably be quiet themselves. You may be worried and upset about nothing. I doubt it will turn into spring break central.

awval999
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by awval999 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:01 am

Twins Fan wrote:
squirm wrote:What are our options?


Move? :happy

As mentioned, if no zoning/law/rule violations are happening, probably not much you can do.

If it's a small semi-rural and quiet area, it will probably attract folks that would want to vacation there and will probably be quiet themselves. You may be worried and upset about nothing. I doubt it will turn into spring break central.


Yes, this.

The property you have explained doesn't make it seem like you're going to get a house of 12 college spring breakers.

ponyboy
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by ponyboy » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:15 am

Who cares if its a vacation rental. That just means it will be more vacant than if someone actually lived there. Its not going to be rented out every day of the year...not to mention when someone does rent it they arent going to be staying in the house. They'll be out and about taking in the city.

Sounds like OP and neighbors are a little jelly over this. That and it sounds like everyone in the neighborhood is stuck in a rut and afraid of any change that may come.

obgraham
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by obgraham » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:53 am

I've snowbirded in two Arizona spots. Each of the developments have loads of rentals (VRBO and AirB&B) in them. It doesn't seem to make much difference to the rest of us.

Permanent renters, on the other hand, often destroy the place.

surfstar
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by surfstar » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:17 am

...be happy you live somewhere nice enough that people would want to vacation there?

Imagine if you lived somewhere with cheap, vacant, run-down housing, where no one wanted to live?

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Kosmo
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Kosmo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:30 am

randomguy wrote:To some extent this is the risk of living in an area without HOAs. You get to do what you want. But so do your neighbors...

I see the lack of someone telling you what you can do with your own property as a benefit, not a risk.

squirm wrote:people coming and going doesn't fit with the characteristics of the neighborhood.

Do people not come and go in your neighborhood? Are you concerned with increased traffic? Because there shouldn't be any. People already go to work and school, there's delivery trucks, and maintenance trucks, and people visiting friends and relatives. And it's not as if new vacationers bring a moving van with them every week. It might be new people every week/month or so, but what does that matter? Most of the day they'll be out doing the thing that brought them to that location for vacation.

Hikes_With_Dogs
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Hikes_With_Dogs » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:43 am

As someone who uses VRBO several times a year, I'm happy! More places for me to visit.

We are always respectful and quiet and are there to vacation and rest. Unless you live in a party district or loud spring break destination (e.g. coastal florida) I wouldn't worry at all.

whadyaknow
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by whadyaknow » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:51 am

Wait and see if it's a problem. If their vacation rental takes off, consider making some extra money by Airbnb'ing a room in your house as well.

Many of my neighbors rent out rooms on Airbnb. It has never been a problem for us. The renters are almost always respectful, since the owner can write a bad review for them.
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travellight
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by travellight » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:02 pm

I also think it will likely be less traffic than someone living there full time. Imagine if he sold it and a loud obnoxious neighbor moved in full time.... not much you could do about that either.

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dm200
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by dm200 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:13 pm

Who is "managing" this vacation rental arrangement?

It could be that, depending on the customers, that this may not be a problem at all. It all depends.

What is the market for such rentals in your area? Who are being targeted for such rentals?

I suspect it is not college students on spring break. BUT - could be.

hicabob
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by hicabob » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:21 pm

Tiburon, a HCOL SF bedroom community (but tourism is huge due to location) ended up banning short term rentals (< 31 days) . 2 sides to every story I suppose.

"However, Councilman Jim Fraser, who has been back and forth on the issue, said there was no compelling new evidence to support further discussion.
"We are not a Los Angeles. We are not a Santa Monica. We are Tiburon, California ... where neighbors know neighbors," he said.
Councilman Emmett O'Donnell added, "Tiburon is a primary residence community," as opposed to a secondary, or vacation home, community.
"I don't think it's a wise move for us to allow the commercialization of residential properties," he said."

Similar type moves to regulate vrbo's and the ilk have failed in SF, Santa Cruz and other nearby places.

Interestingly enough, VRBO's in a desirable area around here can produce double the income after expenses of traditional rentals.

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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:35 pm

I removed one off-topic comment and a response. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette

We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.
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WalterMitty
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by WalterMitty » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:11 pm

Unless it's against code or HOA, I say embrace it. You might meet some kewl new folks.

Also, as a side job, you or your teenage children could offer to manage the property for the new owners....do the lawn service, look after the place etc.

fareastwarriors
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by fareastwarriors » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:10 pm

If it's semi-rural, then I expect there should be plenty of space between this house and other properties. It doesn't sound like too much of an issue to me.

soupcxan
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by soupcxan » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:18 pm

Also, check for deed restrictions, they may prohibit commercial use.

Rodc
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Rodc » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:22 pm

mouses wrote:
reason-logic wrote:Perhaps band together with your neighbors and try to buy the property, otherwise it is his right to use his property to make income, provided he is not violating any laws.


People shouldn't have to have a pile of money to have decent living conditions. I see this argument all the time. "If you want to save this historic house that we are planning to tear down to build a McMansion, come up with millions of dollars to buy it." No, the newcomers doing a number on a neighborhood's character should instead buy someplace that has their values (or lack thereof.)


Too many people think that they not only own the rights to their property but think they own the rights to everyone else's property.

Change is the nature of life.

Yeah, if this turns into a loud rental party house I would not be happy. If a new family moved in that was raucously loud I would be just as unhappy. But I did not buy the rights to their property - that is just the way it is.

My hope for the OP is that the worries are overblown and this is used as a family vacation rental house. Or that in fact there are existing ordinances that everyone signed on to (even if they did not know it) against this.

Best of luck
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Mudpuppy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:01 pm

mouses wrote:
reason-logic wrote:Perhaps band together with your neighbors and try to buy the property, otherwise it is his right to use his property to make income, provided he is not violating any laws.


People shouldn't have to have a pile of money to have decent living conditions. I see this argument all the time. "If you want to save this historic house that we are planning to tear down to build a McMansion, come up with millions of dollars to buy it." No, the newcomers doing a number on a neighborhood's character should instead buy someplace that has their values (or lack thereof.)

Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"? If there is no law or HOA rule saying what can be done with the property, it's well within the rights of the new owner to do with the property as they please. If it's not against the law / HOA rules, there's nothing saying neighbors get to vote about what someone does with their own property.

It's personal property, not community property. The advice to band together to purchase the property if you don't like what is being done with the property is meant to remind you of this fact, and it's not as rude as saying "put your money where your mouth is". If you don't like what is being done with the property, purchase it (either individually or as a community) and do something different.

This whole thread reminds me of the hand-wringing people do when a health rehabilitation home or elder care home moves into a neighborhood. Very rarely are people recovering from surgery / injury or the elderly actually a burden on the neighborhood, and it is good for them to be in smaller settings from a health perspective. But every time a new one is proposed, there is always a vocal group of neighbors who somehow think it's going to turn the neighborhood into a freeway of traffic, or the visitors will take some time after visiting Nana to go rob the neighbors.

In other words, the concerns are highly exaggerated relative to the reality of having such a home as a neighbor. I'd suspect the same is the case here, unless, as previously mentioned, the area is known for partying vacations or spring break revels.

ResearchMed
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:14 pm

You might eventually be able to "help them [new owners] to help you".

As suggested above, perhaps there's a new part-time job for someone, managing, supervising cleaning (or even cleaning if one needs work or knows someone who does), etc.

But even without that formal agreement, IF there is too much raucous behavior there, chances are good (but not guaranteed) that the new owners would like to know if someone might be trashing the place.

We had vacation rental cabins, and although they were in communities that were about 50/50 short term rentals and residences, both types of occupants could get out of hand (sure, less so the retired couple in the smaller property, but even then, if a herd of grandchildren were visiting...).

Anyway, we tried to make sure that we gave neighbors our direct phone number, so IF there was a nuisance, we could call the renters.

Yes, the owners might want to maximize revenue by not screening too much, but that can wear off fast, as one finds holes in walls, beer/wine spilled on sofas, or whatever. Our first guest put some holes in walls, and we learned fast. We also were very aggressive about collecting on the substantial damages, and we then upped the security deposit (not charge authorization, but money collected in our possession, to be returned).

You can't control that, but with the right approach (help them/help the community), you might be surprised.

Unless the property is already run down, chances are the new owners aren't going to want real trouble renters.

And also, with short term renters, IF there is one bad weekend... that's a lot better than having a seriously troublesome neighbor move in full time. THAT is a nightmare!

Good luck.

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dore
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by dore » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:15 pm

Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.

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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by randomguy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:17 pm

Kosmo wrote:
randomguy wrote:To some extent this is the risk of living in an area without HOAs. You get to do what you want. But so do your neighbors...

I see the lack of someone telling you what you can do with your own property as a benefit, not a risk.



You like the benefit of doing what you want. Do you also like it when your neighbors

-installia gun range: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/neig ... -gun-range

-decide to have a bear as pet: http://www.treehugger.com/endangered-sp ... wrong.html

- bury their wife in the front yard: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/22/al ... grave.html

- do naked yard work: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/13 ... -work-nude

-rent out their apartment.

:) As I said you get the benefit of doing what you want but you have to deal with other people doing what they want. And it turns out that some of those things might annoy you.

Rodc
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Rodc » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:57 pm

dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

leonard
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by leonard » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:00 pm

squirm wrote:Basically the title says it all. Old neighbors of 25 years, moved out. New neighbors bought the house with cash (Bay Area). Now they want to turn it into a vacation rental. Everyone on the block is upset, we are in a small semi-rural area, people coming and going doesn't fit with the characteristics of the neighborhood.
What are our options?


Consider yourself lucky. Last neighbor decided to become a landlord....by renting a single family split level to 4 sets of renters. Essentially turned it to a rooming house. Packed our street with cars. I'd have loved to have it be a Air BnB rental.
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by surfstar » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:07 pm

Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


but what if they live down a one-lane road?!

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Qtman
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Qtman » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:30 pm

Welcome to 2016, I can think of countless worse scenarios.
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Rodc
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Rodc » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:34 pm

surfstar wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


but what if they live down a one-lane road?!


:)
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

dore
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by dore » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:54 pm

Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


So you're saying that whenever you move into a new community, you do whatever you want and force the community to adapt to your needs? This is a great attitude up to the point at which one turns 16.

Rodc
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Rodc » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:58 pm

dore wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


So you're saying that whenever you move into a new community, you do whatever you want and force the community to adapt to your needs? This is a great attitude up to the point at which one turns 16.


To a point yes. Being older than 16 I accept that not everyone thinks like I do. And that is ok.

If you want that move into a HOA type neighborhood. Be an adult and plan ahead. :)
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

dore
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by dore » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:05 pm

Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


So you're saying that whenever you move into a new community, you do whatever you want and force the community to adapt to your needs? This is a great attitude up to the point at which one turns 16.


To a point yes. Being older than 16 I accept that not everyone thinks like I do. And that is ok.

If you want that move into a HOA type neighborhood. Be an adult and plan ahead. :)


I would argue that the needs of the collective community outweigh the needs of any one individual, provided that the number of households in the community is greater than 2. For the record, the neighborhood in which I live is listed in the National Register of Historic Places, which places severe restrictions on homeowners. :P

Rodc
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Rodc » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:14 pm

dore wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


So you're saying that whenever you move into a new community, you do whatever you want and force the community to adapt to your needs? This is a great attitude up to the point at which one turns 16.


To a point yes. Being older than 16 I accept that not everyone thinks like I do. And that is ok.

If you want that move into a HOA type neighborhood. Be an adult and plan ahead. :)


I would argue that the needs of the collective community outweigh the needs of any one individual, provided that the number of households in the community is greater than 2.


You will need to move to a community of like minded people with a HOA if that is your desire. I would also point out that word is not needs but desires. Such places exist and many like them. Some do not like them and prefer not to live in them. It is a choice one is free to make. If this is important to you then it would be important to factor this into the house you buy, rather than complain after the fact.

PS: I see you edited your post: you are covered, well done!
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

freebeer
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by freebeer » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:34 pm

dore wrote:
Why should the new owner have to respect the "neighborhood character"?


It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


"should" is different than "must" and "values" of a community evolve over time and are often different in the eyes of a different beholder. And such things can be applied to things much more sensitive than whether or not it's OK to host short-term guests.

"good fences make good neighbors" is not just about literal fences it's about state of mind.

And I recommend "The Araboolies of Liberty Street" for kids of all ages.

mak1277
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by mak1277 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:41 pm

dore wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
Rodc wrote:
dore wrote:
It's called being an adult and realizing that one is almost always part of a greater community, and that one should respect the values of said community.


Respect is a two way street.


So you're saying that whenever you move into a new community, you do whatever you want and force the community to adapt to your needs? This is a great attitude up to the point at which one turns 16.


To a point yes. Being older than 16 I accept that not everyone thinks like I do. And that is ok.

If you want that move into a HOA type neighborhood. Be an adult and plan ahead. :)


I would argue that the needs of the collective community outweigh the needs of any one individual, provided that the number of households in the community is greater than 2. For the record, the neighborhood in which I live is listed in the National Register of Historic Places, which places severe restrictions on homeowners. :P


Your definition of "needs" must be different than mine. A community doesn't "need" to prevent short term rentals. It may WANT to, due to some provincial attitude or general grumpiness, but it's not a NEED.

mak1277
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by mak1277 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:44 pm

randomguy wrote:
Kosmo wrote:
randomguy wrote:To some extent this is the risk of living in an area without HOAs. You get to do what you want. But so do your neighbors...

I see the lack of someone telling you what you can do with your own property as a benefit, not a risk.



You like the benefit of doing what you want. Do you also like it when your neighbors

-installia gun range: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/neig ... -gun-range

-decide to have a bear as pet: http://www.treehugger.com/endangered-sp ... wrong.html

- bury their wife in the front yard: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/22/al ... grave.html

- do naked yard work: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/13 ... -work-nude

-rent out their apartment.

:) As I said you get the benefit of doing what you want but you have to deal with other people doing what they want. And it turns out that some of those things might annoy you.


Most of these things are already illegal...what does an HOA have to do with indecent exposure and murder?

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Kosmo
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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Kosmo » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:03 pm

randomguy wrote:
Kosmo wrote:
randomguy wrote:To some extent this is the risk of living in an area without HOAs. You get to do what you want. But so do your neighbors...

I see the lack of someone telling you what you can do with your own property as a benefit, not a risk.



You like the benefit of doing what you want. Do you also like it when your neighbors

-installia gun range: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/neig ... -gun-range

-decide to have a bear as pet: http://www.treehugger.com/endangered-sp ... wrong.html

- bury their wife in the front yard: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/22/al ... grave.html

- do naked yard work: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/13 ... -work-nude

-rent out their apartment.

:) As I said you get the benefit of doing what you want but you have to deal with other people doing what they want. And it turns out that some of those things might annoy you.

I certainly understand your point. These things would probably annoy me (although all 4 are most likely illegal where I live). However, I'm an adult, or at least I pretend to be. And that means deal with it. If the neighbors aren't doing anything illegal or dangerous to me/my family/my property, then I can go pound sand. Or complain on the internet.

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Re: New neighbor turning their house into vacation rental

Post by Alex Frakt » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:53 pm

Locked. Too many non-actionable (trolling) replies. Question appears to have been answered as well as it can be anyway. If something was missed, please PM the OP.

Locked