Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

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Swampy
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Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Swampy »

I'm just wondering how many Bogleheads have taken the Series 7 exam just for personal use and understanding (not to get a job as a broker)?

The thought has crossed my mind that it might come in handy for an investor:
1) when dealing with the various brokers and 'advisors' that come out of the woodwork to sell their wares;
2) more understanding and insight into the investment process;
3) assist in seeing past the lies, distortions and false statistics
among other potential benefits.

How tough was it?

Has it been useful?
If so, in what ways?
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by LAlearning »

I doubt it's useful for most ppl here.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

I took it right out of college. (I was in training to be a broker for Edward Jones.)

That was some years ago now (2006), but at least back then it was super easy and mostly worthless from the perspective of an individual investor. The majority of the information just isn't relevant or useful (e.g., what must/must not be included in an advertisement for a muni bond).
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Northern Flicker »

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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by neurosphere »

jalbert wrote:Series 65 might be more useful.

-jalbert
If you wish, by a study manual for the series 65 and learn the material. Don't bother to take the test.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by SpaceCowboy »

Taking the various FINRA Series exams for personal learning makes no sense IMHO.
More productive would be to pursue a CFA or MBA with a Finance concentration.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by ecoe »

Swampy wrote:I'm just wondering how many Bogleheads have taken the Series 7 exam just for personal use and understanding (not to get a job as a broker)?

The thought has crossed my mind that it might come in handy for an investor:
1) when dealing with the various brokers and 'advisors' that come out of the woodwork to sell their wares;
2) more understanding and insight into the investment process;
3) assist in seeing past the lies, distortions and false statistics
among other potential benefits.

How tough was it?

Has it been useful?
If so, in what ways?
I took it years ago and I used to teach it to others as part of my job. I would say that it would help you with #2 above and it might help you to feel more comfortable with #1 but would add little value in dealing with #3. For the most part I think it would just help you to feel comfortable with the vocabulary. As an aside, most people find the Options section to be tedious and you probably have little use for that information.

I agree with the other posters here, read the material if you wish but don't bother taking the test. To answer your questions more directly...it is not tough and it is not terribly useful outside of the business, particulary if you practice a Boglehead approach to investing.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by matjen »

I took it the year between undergrad and law school. Super easy and I would say mildly helpful if you weren't a boglehead. Things like options and terminology come to mind. If you are a boglehead you have moved past that stuff hopefully and I think it would add little value.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Swampy »

Thanks for the input so far.

I'll probably get the study guides for series 7 and 65 for personal use and go over them at my convenience.

If anything, it'll help me understand the mindset of those who wish to take advantage of us.
If I have seen further, it was by standing on the shoulders of giants.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Hodor »

Is there really that much you need to know to be a good Boglehead?

Step 1: Buy broad market, low-cost index funds.
Step 2: There is no step 2.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by jhfenton »

I passed the Series 7 and 66 (equivalent to 63 plus 65) back in 2000. I don't know that there was much that was useful to an individual investor, especially if you're a Boglehead. I suppose it could be useful to understand common options strategies--so that you know what not to do--but everything useful in the material you'll already know as a Boglehead.

I took the tests because I had a brief stint as a financial advisor. I love the planning, but I wasn't comfortable doing what it would have taken to be a financial success at the firm I was with. It was also a badly timed career change. Some of my biggest paydays were when I was brought in as a second advisor by some established advisors to help with complicated tax or Medicaid planning or, in one situation with two clients, hedging concentrated vested and unvested stock and stock option positions (with prepaid variable forward contracts). I should have been in the advanced sales back office, not the front line.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by market timer »

Swampy wrote:I'll probably get the study guides for series 7 and 65 for personal use and go over them at my convenience.

If anything, it'll help me understand the mindset of those who wish to take advantage of us.
As I recall, these exams deal with very dry rules and regulations. Many people who have to take the Series 7 never deal with individual investors. While I never took the CFA, I think it covers more interesting material that is potentially relevant to an individual investor.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by MN Finance »

Please do not waste your time. The study material is exclusively geared toward passing the exams. The exams are designed by regulators. None of that has ANYTHING to do with personal finance.

You'll find a couple interesting topics in anything (MBA, 7, 66, CFP, CFA, etc) but you're better off here. When I started as a broker in the late 90s I learned all I needed on the Morningstar diehards forum.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Alex Frakt »

I took (and passed) the 65, the Investment Adviser exam, mostly out of curiosity. The only study source I used was http://www.investopedia.com/exam-guide/series-65/. Take a look at the guide, you'll notice that a large part of the test covers stuff of no interest to the individual investor. Even the investing stuff is of no greater depth than you'll find on our wiki pages.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Beat The Street »

I took the 7 and 66, both are easy and can be passed with a week long study (but I was a financial planning major in college). Like someone else said, the CFA would teach you more but you'd waste a lot of time on that if you're not planning on being in the industry.

I would just recommend books by William Bernstein, Larry Swedroe, David Swensen, and others.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by saltycaper »

Do you not need to be sponsored by a firm to take these exams? I thought you did, in which case you could not just decide to take them on your own, no?
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by neurosphere »

saltycaper wrote:Do you not need to be sponsored by a firm to take these exams? I thought you did, in which case you could not just decide to take them on your own, no?
That may have been old requirement, perhaps of some states. I took the series 65 a few years ago and did not need any sponsor.

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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by celia »

saltycaper wrote:Do you not need to be sponsored by a firm to take these exams? I thought you did, in which case you could not just decide to take them on your own, no?
We could sponsor Swampy. :D Then he/she would have to come back and report the answers to the original post! :sharebeer
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Alex Frakt »

saltycaper wrote:Do you not need to be sponsored by a firm to take these exams? I thought you did, in which case you could not just decide to take them on your own, no?
I don't know about the broker exams, but you can sign up for the Series 65 on your own.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by saltycaper »

Ah, must have been just the Series 7 I was thinking of. Thanks.

Is it possible to take the Series 7 exam without being sponsored? (No.)

Looks like you can take the Series 65 or 66 without a sponsor, although the 66 does you little good without the Series 7.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Swampy »

Thanks for the input.

Thanks to Alex Frakt for the link to Series 65. It contains a lot of material that I can review and possibly use.

saltycaper, if I have to be sponsored - it isn't worth pursuing. I'm not thinking about it to get a job as a broker or advisor. I might still take the prep courses just because they're held nearby and I want to see firsthand what goes on.

Yes, I have learned a lot being on Bogleheads during the last three years, which has been quite fruitful and profitable. By supplementing that with reading Bogle, Bernstein and Ferri (I haven't gotten to the others - though I intend to), it has solidified a core knowledge - not the least of which is finding out just how big of a patsy I was for the last three decades. :oops:

Knowledge is power. That said, I want to avoid the paralysis of analysis. The more concrete and actionable knowledge I can learn from these sources, the better I will be at handling whatever is thrown at me.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by small_index »

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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Dandy »

I believe getting a Series 7 requires a broker dealer or similar sponsor to even sit for the exam -- at least that was my understanding when I worked in 2 different financial services companies. It was somewhat hard for an employee not involved with sales or sales review to sit for the exam.
I can't speak for the Series 7 but the series 6 and 63 which covered mutual funds and annuities was not much help with understanding investments, mutual funds or annuities. It contained some mutual fund and annuity basics but spent a lot of time on the regulatory obligations, concerns and violation penalties for various acts of commission or omission related to the sale or supervision of the sale of mutual funds or annuities.
You should consider looking at the series 7 study guide at the bookstore or library to see if reading the guide and perhaps taking a practice test will be of help.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by mickeyd »

How tough was it?

Has it been useful?
I took the exam in the 70s and do not recall that not was particularly difficult. Passing the exam does not assume that you are more knowledgeable, just that you studied data and regurgitated it properly. I recall thinking that I had passed the exam and felt that I knew nothing about the subject.

Information that I used to pass the exam was not especially helpful to my eventual success in investing.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (how you spend your money and your time - OP is asking about personal use, not career related).
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by ShiftF5 »

small_index wrote:For those with a kindle, the book "Pass The 65" can be read using Kindle Unlimited (a $10/month service).
Or if you don't have an Amazon Kindle Digital Reader, but instead have almost any smartphone or tablet, you can simply download the free Kindle app to your mobile device and read it there.

Good luck.
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Re: Series 7 Exam and Bogleheads

Post by Swampy »

I guess maybe the best option is to just keep reading material designed for Bogleheads, especially from Taylor Larimore's list of recommended reading.

The technical and regulatory mumbo jumbo for broker's wouldn't be useful for the indexing way of investing.

I fear that I might sucked into their fantasy world - again.
THAT would not be a good thing.
If I have seen further, it was by standing on the shoulders of giants.
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