VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

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Browser
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VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by Browser » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:58 am

So, it looks like the new emissions testing regime outside the lab is turning up more brands with the "issue." Wonder where this is going? Hopefully there is no deliberate deception, but who knows?
Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi are producing cars which emit far more pollution on the road than they do in a lab, according to new tests.
The four car giants join Volkswagen on the growing list of companies whose diesel vehicles passed the EU's official regulatory test in a laboratory setting, but fail to meet them in realistic driving situations.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3oYfLaeTi
The Guardian revealed last week that diesel cars from Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, Citroen, Fiat, Volvo and Jeep all pumped out significantly more NOx in more realistic driving conditions.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ssions-row
Last edited by Browser on Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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YttriumNitrate
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by YttriumNitrate » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:20 am

So basically, they are designing their cars to pass specific tests. I would image they also design their cars to pass specific crash tests too, so if you get in a crash you want it to be one that closely mimics one of the tests. :D

ralph124cf
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by ralph124cf » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:39 am

It appears that no new 2015 or 2016 Passats can be sold now.

I have been waiting for prices of used Passats to crash, but it doesn't appear to be happening. It would be nice to pick up a bargain.

Ralph

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:43 am

I believe European regulations are written differently than US regulations.

The US regulations say how the car has to perform in normal use, and then specify tests that can be used to validate that if run in good faith.

The European regulations only specify that it has to pass a particular test.

TOM1964
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by TOM1964 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:35 pm

The author of the study that the British tabloids are referencing has completely repudiated those articles. The tabloids took his data completely out of context to fabricate a story. Those other manufacturers never installed defeat devices. Just VW.

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N1CKV
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by N1CKV » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:50 pm

YttriumNitrate wrote:So basically, they are designing their cars to pass specific tests. I would image they also design their cars to pass specific crash tests too, so if you get in a crash you want it to be one that closely mimics one of the tests. :D
Exactly. If I am taking a math examine in the morning I'm not studying Spanish tonight.
ralph124cf wrote:It appears that no new 2015 or 2016 Passats can be sold now.
I have been waiting for prices of used Passats to crash, but it doesn't appear to be happening. It would be nice to pick up a bargain.
Ralph
I am not surprised, for every person that is now "disgusted by their dirty diesel" there is someone thinking that they could care less and would really like one of these awesomely fuel efficient cars for themselves. If I had one I wouldn't be getting it "fixed" to get worse MPG and performance.
TOM1964 wrote:The author of the study that the British tabloids are referencing has completely repudiated those articles. The tabloids took his data completely out of context to fabricate a story. Those other manufacturers never installed defeat devices. Just VW.
I noticed the wording also, they did nothing to defeat the test, they just paid attention to what was going to be on the test before going in. Don't think that every American manufacturer doesn't carefully consider the exact prescribed course from the EPA to obtain certain figures when designing their powertrain hardware and software.
I have met a lot of people that claim to love money, but they also seem to be the same people that are in the biggest hurry to get rid of it.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:01 pm

TOM1964 wrote:The author of the study that the British tabloids are referencing has completely repudiated those articles. The tabloids took his data completely out of context to fabricate a story. Those other manufacturers never installed defeat devices. Just VW.
The article specifically says 'There is no evidence of illegal activity, such as the “defeat devices” used by Volkswagen.' I checked the way back machine and that was in the original article.

So what study are you talking about, who is the author and what did he repudiate?

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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by TOM1964 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:50 pm

This is the article I read where the author of a study used by the Guardian feels his work was misrepresented...

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/a ... t-so-fast-

"But Nick Molden, the CEO of Emissions Analytics, on whose data the Guardian relied, calling the report "rubbish." The higher readings in real world testing are not a surprise and do not indicate that any of the manufacturers whose vehicles were tested did anything illegal, he said in an exclusive interview with TheDetroitBureau late Friday."

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telemark
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by telemark » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:25 pm

Coming to your brand, perhaps, but not to your car unless you live in Europe or the U.K. Volkswagen was the only brand selling diesel models in the U.S.

Browser
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by Browser » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:38 pm

telemark wrote:Coming to your brand, perhaps, but not to your car unless you live in Europe or the U.K. Volkswagen was the only brand selling diesel models in the U.S.
Of the brands mentioned, both Mercedes and Jeep sell diesels in the U.S. I'm thinking I'll be avoiding anything with diesel engines when I buy my next vehicle. I may also avoid any brand that sells them because if they get sucked into this emission scandal it's likely to affect the whole brand. Then there are the pickup trucks with diesel engines that I think all the major U.S. brands produce. What about those?
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by DSInvestor » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Wiki

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:41 pm

TOM1964 wrote:This is the article I read where the author of a study used by the Guardian feels his work was misrepresented...

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/a ... t-so-fast-

"But Nick Molden, the CEO of Emissions Analytics, on whose data the Guardian relied, calling the report "rubbish." The higher readings in real world testing are not a surprise and do not indicate that any of the manufacturers whose vehicles were tested did anything illegal, he said in an exclusive interview with TheDetroitBureau late Friday."
That URL is 404 but I found the quote at:
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/a ... st-n441976

The Guardian article did not say they were a surprise and the Guardian specifically said they were not evidence of anything illegal. The Guardians beef appears to be with the EU regulations. Maybe there's another Guardian article that says something else, but I can't find it. Maybe Mr. Molden was ambushed with a misquote.

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Re: VW auto emissions problem - coming to your brand too?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:03 pm

This thread has run its course and is locked (not actionable). As noted in the previously locked threads: VW/Audi Diesel Recall and VW stock goes from 170 to almost 100 and falling, good time to buy?, let's hold off further discussion until there's a clear course for remediation.
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