Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

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Hayden
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Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

We are embarking on a major remodel of our kitchen (appliances, granite) and replacing the rug in the adjoining room with hardwood. Looking for cost savings tips.

E.g., what credit card would you get if you were about to charge $10,000+ ?
The counter guy we met with recommended buying the sink and faucet from Amazon. He said Amazon is 25% less than local stores.

Any other suggestions?
denovo
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by denovo »

Set a budget and stick to it.
E.g., what credit card would you get if you were about to charge $10,000+ ?
Are you going to pay off the credit card in complete when the statement comes due? If you can't, you can not afford to remodel your kitchen.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
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Kosmo
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Kosmo »

You ought to be saving for a kitchen remodel, not saving on a kitchen remodel.

Having said that, my kitchen needs a serious upgrade, so I'm interested in what people have to say.
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

denovo wrote:Set a budget and stick to it.
E.g., what credit card would you get if you were about to charge $10,000+ ?
Are you going to pay off the credit card in complete when the statement comes due? If you can't, you can not afford to remodel your kitchen.
I have never had a balance on a credit card in my life. Yes, it will be paid for when the statement comes in. We can afford it.
daveatca
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Save?

Post by daveatca »

Quartz, not granite
Integrated/built-in refrigerator
Induction hob
Single, not double sink
Top of the line garbage disposal
Speed oven
Hire a kitchen designer
stan1
Posts: 14246
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by stan1 »

- Minimize plumbing/electrical work by leaving appliances, light fixtures, and switches in the same place when possible.
- Consider mid range appliances (e.g. GE Profile/Cafe, Samsung, LG) rather than high end or professional. Also be prepared that you will be very lucky if your new appliances last more than 10 years no matter what the brand. Try to avoid odd size cabinet openings so that you have a better chance of replacing a failed appliance without having to modify cabinets in the future.
- Avoid complex electronics if you can. In-door ice dispensers add a lot of complexity/repairs to refrigerators. For two people we've found that a counter depth standard refrigerator works great without the added complexity/cost of integrated/built-in.
- Shop around for cabinets. At least look at custom cabinets from a local shop (price may be very competitive with semi-custom cabinets from name brand suppliers).
- May not save any money but I'd go with quartz over granite. There are some beautiful quartz products out there if you don't like the glacier white quartz that's very popular right now.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
denovo
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by denovo »

Kosmo wrote:You ought to be saving for a kitchen remodel, not saving on a kitchen remodel.

Having said that, my kitchen needs a serious upgrade, so I'm interested in what people have to say.
To make sure costs don't escalate and that everything is done correctly, I suggest people use a general contractor unless they have expertise in the area, i.e. are in construction themselves. And don't forget permits! I would get a few bids and to make sure comparisons are proper, make the relevant specifications for what type of granite you want to use, what kind of cabinets you want to use, etc to get an apples to apples comparisons. I think Home Depot and Lowe's may offer these type of contracting services for kitchen remodels.

A good contractor should give you value engineering options, i.e. he may suggest a type of granite that is similar in style to the one you selected that is cheaper. A lot of it comes down to taste. You may find some of the cheaper cabinetry or countertop tacky. Freestanding ranges aren't popular, but it's certainly cheaper than wall-in ovens. A lot of people request wall-in ovens and specifically two of them. I personally think it's a waste and wonder how often people actually need two ovens. Stainless steel appliances are another thing that will make a difference.

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/tired-o ... ves-199630

Here are some alternatives to granite e.g.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
denovo
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Re: Save?

Post by denovo »

daveatca wrote:Quartz, not granite
Quartz is generally more expensive than granite.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
123
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by 123 »

If you've got a tract house or otherwise standard model house that has clones in your area go to some open houses on homes for sale of similar models to see what other people have done with similar layouts. It is often amazing how some folks (or their contractors/designers) think up small adjustments that are really useful. When we did a remodel I spent a lot of time thinking of alternative locations for a built-in microwave (we wanted to use a heavy-duty vent hood that occupied the traditional position for a microwave). We ended up just using a counter top location for the microwave because all the potential built-in locations had limitations. It's also a lot easier to replace a counter top microwave then to find another built-in that matches other built-in appliances down the road.
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tagius
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by tagius »

I am an Architect

Kitchen is the most expensive room in the home so the best way to save money and get good quality is as follows;
1) Buy Ikea kitchen cabinets. They are the best quality for the money. They will also install for you in some locations.
2) Get a Granite counter top Not a Marble one. Granite is less likely to stain, more durable and there are many inexpensive but great looking choices.
3) Appliances, I think you have that one figured out already. Buy what you can afford and compare.
SleepKing
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by SleepKing »

-hire designer for kitchen
-hire general contractor u trust or someone you trust trusts. Perhaps most important since they will find all the subs.
-budget at 20-30% for overruns
-go to a home/garden show to get ideas in addition to designer or contractor
-agree with other to get lg,samsung,kitchen aid rather than super high end professional appliances
-i have found best appliance sales are 30% off and typically memoriAl, 4th july, labo day, BF are most predictable offers
-if you are tall have them make raised height countertop and sinks
-we use our double wall ovens all the time


-we live near an amish country and th custom cabinet options are competitive and the quality is breathtaking compard to big box or warehouse options

Have fun
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lthenderson
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by lthenderson »

denovo wrote:Freestanding ranges aren't popular, but it's certainly cheaper than wall-in ovens. A lot of people request wall-in ovens and specifically two of them. I personally think it's a waste and wonder how often people actually need two ovens.


We have double wall ovens and a cooktop. Recently our electric cooktop shorted out and we replaced it with a gas one. While talking with the appliance dealer, he said just the opposite. Freestanding ranges are all the rage these days and double wall ovens are out. He sells 20 freestanding ovens (mostly stainless steel and quite a few duel fuel models) for every double wall oven he sells.

This surprised me since I absolutely love my double wall ovens. We frequently due the bulk of our cooking on weekends and then eat leftovers or quick fix meals during the week. With both of us cooking two different things as once, two ovens comes in handy. My wife bakes a lot and for every time it calls for rotating pans from top to bottom shelf halfway through, she just uses two ovens. The biggest reason is that I'm very tall. Having an upper oven that I can put things into without having to practically get down on my hands and knees is a big big plus and worth the cost of the extra oven even if I were to never use it.
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plannerman
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by plannerman »

Shop around. We received granite counter top quotations that ranged from $2,500 to $10,000 for the exact same granite.

plannerman
scone
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by scone »

I do my own design and contracting work, which saves a lot. I often use Home Depot, because cabinets are very expensive, and "local cabinetmakers" can be all over the place in terms of price and quality. For the last remodel, I used HDs Innermost line, which is pretty good for the money, and made in the USA. The door style is Kingston, which is a very simple Shaker style. There are no inner fittings, and most of the cabinets are drawers. They were originally meant for another job, but I rejiggered the design to fit them into this kitchen. They are painted, green on the bottom and white uppers, which is trendy right now.

My countertops are IKEA butcher block from Poland, the sink is an IKEA apron front, and the flooring is a very thick matte commercial sheet vinyl. The appliances are white, not stainless. My husband did the electrical. I also did some of the painting, schlepping, and all the supervision. Our helpers were local handymen. I doubt a "high end craftsman" would have bothered to bid this job, as there was little money in it.

IIRC, we've spent about $11,500 so far, on a 10 x 13 space. I still need drawer pulls, and I'm debating about some sort of backsplash. The "cottage kitchen" design approach really saved the most money. Painted cabinets, white appliances, and butcher block are relatively inexpensive. If you go for cherry, stainless, and granite, you can blow through $30,000 on a kitchen that size without even breathing hard.
Last edited by scone on Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hand
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by hand »

I took the following approach when doing a kitchen remodel to save a bit:

1) Recognize that labor, cabinets and appliances are likely the largest portion of the budget - the rest is noise.
2) Understand cost drivers of each of the categories and decide where to spend and where to save (we spent on quality labor and decent cabinets, but saved on appliances and labor intensive flourishes that didn't mean much to us.
3) Be prescriptive where it matters to you or where you are locked in for the long term - drawers vs. shelves, layout, cabinet style, light quality - and flexible / opportunistic where you can - we saved a bundle on clearance appliances
4) Many LED lighting options pay for themselves if installed new vs. retrofit. I'm specifically thinking of can lights for which incandescent + trim is often more expensive than the integrated LED units. Lower operating cost is simply a side benefit. Spend for high CRI LED.


P.S. We didn't go this direction, but if I were to do it again, I would have fought hard to use Ikea cabinets which are surprisingly high quality for the money and much less costly than anything above box store quality.
ankzap
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by ankzap »

Ikea cabinets - fraction of the cost of the "local cabinetmakers" or even HD etc. Yes, it isn't real wood (its MDF), but lasts long and looks really nice. Another option is ikea cabinets with real wood doors (www.semihandmadedoors.com).
pshonore
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by pshonore »

ankzap wrote:Ikea cabinets - fraction of the cost of the "local cabinetmakers" or even HD etc. Yes, it isn't real wood (its MDF), but lasts long and looks really nice. Another option is ikea cabinets with real wood doors (http://www.semihandmadedoors.com).
While I'm not a big fan of IKEA cabinets, most other cabinets are not real wood either. Certainly door and drawer frames and face frames should be, but most larger panels are either plywood or mdf veneer. Its just more dimensionally stable and can be more expensive than real wood. However, particleboard and similar materials should always be avoided.
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Hayden
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Re: Save?

Post by Hayden »

daveatca wrote:Quartz, not granite
Integrated/built-in refrigerator
Induction hob
Single, not double sink
Top of the line garbage disposal
Speed oven
Hire a kitchen designer
We were planning on Quartz, but then spoke to a local countertop fabricator who said not to believe the hype about Quartz; granite is better. He had a sample of Quartz and showed that pen marks, scissor scratches left a mark on the Quartz but not on the granite.

Why do you prefer single sink? My SO wants a double sink; I am undecided.

how does one go about finding a kitchen designer? Or just use the designer who works at the flooring/countertop store?
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

stan1 wrote:- Minimize plumbing/electrical work by leaving appliances, light fixtures, and switches in the same place when possible.
- Consider mid range appliances (e.g. GE Profile/Cafe, Samsung, LG) rather than high end or professional. Also be prepared that you will be very lucky if your new appliances last more than 10 years no matter what the brand. Try to avoid odd size cabinet openings so that you have a better chance of replacing a failed appliance without having to modify cabinets in the future.
- Avoid complex electronics if you can. In-door ice dispensers add a lot of complexity/repairs to refrigerators. For two people we've found that a counter depth standard refrigerator works great without the added complexity/cost of integrated/built-in.
- Shop around for cabinets. At least look at custom cabinets from a local shop (price may be very competitive with semi-custom cabinets from name brand suppliers).
- May not save any money but I'd go with quartz over granite. There are some beautiful quartz products out there if you don't like the glacier white quartz that's very popular right now.
Good tips on the appliances and electrical work. My SO wants a gas range, so we will be running gas to the kitchen. A new hood will go over the new range, which means the microwave needs to be moved to under the counter. Any experience with the under cabinet microwaves? I microwave every day, so I'm a bit concerned about that.
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

denovo wrote:
Kosmo wrote:You ought to be saving for a kitchen remodel, not saving on a kitchen remodel.

Having said that, my kitchen needs a serious upgrade, so I'm interested in what people have to say.
To make sure costs don't escalate and that everything is done correctly, I suggest people use a general contractor unless they have expertise in the area, i.e. are in construction themselves. And don't forget permits! I would get a few bids and to make sure comparisons are proper, make the relevant specifications for what type of granite you want to use, what kind of cabinets you want to use, etc to get an apples to apples comparisons. I think Home Depot and Lowe's may offer these type of contracting services for kitchen remodels.

A good contractor should give you value engineering options, i.e. he may suggest a type of granite that is similar in style to the one you selected that is cheaper. A lot of it comes down to taste. You may find some of the cheaper cabinetry or countertop tacky. Freestanding ranges aren't popular, but it's certainly cheaper than wall-in ovens. A lot of people request wall-in ovens and specifically two of them. I personally think it's a waste and wonder how often people actually need two ovens. Stainless steel appliances are another thing that will make a difference.

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/tired-o ... ves-199630

Here are some alternatives to granite e.g.
Thanks for the reminder on permits. I will make sure we get needed permits, because I don't want any issues when we sell the house some day.
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

plannerman wrote:Shop around. We received granite counter top quotations that ranged from $2,500 to $10,000 for the exact same granite.

plannerman
Interesting. We'll have to try that. We had been led to believe that all the granite places were basically the same.
ddurrett896
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by ddurrett896 »

Hayden wrote:We are embarking on a major remodel of our kitchen (appliances, granite) and replacing the rug in the adjoining room with hardwood. Looking for cost savings tips.

E.g., what credit card would you get if you were about to charge $10,000+ ?
The counter guy we met with recommended buying the sink and faucet from Amazon. He said Amazon is 25% less than local stores.

Any other suggestions?
I'm finishing up my kitchen now and my in-laws just remodeled their entire first floor, including the kitchen.

Counters: I did quartz in my laundry room and carerra marble in my master bathroom and was set on using quartz in the kitchen but went with granite. The difference between the 2 was about $2,500 or 50%. I love the granite!

Sink/Faucet: Amazon is an option, but I found Ferguson to be the cheapest if you have one near you. They have different brackets for pricing, and if you call and request a quote, they vary by every person.

The sink Kohler sink I bought was $1,200 on Kohler, $1,100 on HomeDepot and I ended up paying $650 from Ferguson. I called 3 different Ferguson locations new me and got 3 bids emailed to me which were: $899, $1,000 and $650. I took the $650 bid to my local Ferguson and ordered.

Appliances: That $10,000 credit card won't go far. I went with GE Cafe appliances (counter depth fridge, microwave with trim kit, dishwasher and gas double over) and ended up paying $5,000 over 4th of July but retail would have been around $8,000 with no deals. Wait for a deal!

Tile/Backsplash: Last year I went to a local tile shop for master bathroom tile and my wife was set on a tile that was $4/sqft. Not bad, so we went with it.

For our kitchen, we found a wood like tile at Lowes (Style Selections Natural Timber Whitewash) which was $3/sqft and got it on sale for $1.20/sqft. The tile is AWESOME and people walk in my house and say "wow you did wood in the kitchen how did you get it to look like that." Don't discount buying tile from Lowes/HD vs. specialty tile shops.

Not sure you DIY you are, but tile is EASY! If you hire someone to do the work don't watch them do it because you will end up pissed you paid someone all that $ for such easy work.

If you use a contractor be very selective and realize you are paying a premium for not having to be the general contractor. My in-laws are still having their work done and this is the process. Contractor charges $2,000 for backsplash and subcontracts is out to a guy to do for $500. Why not just go straight to the tile guy for $500 and bypass the contractor? It's funny because the contractor pulls up to their house in a $60,000 Ford Superduty and all the subcontractors are in 20+ year old trucks that look like they came straight out of a junkyard.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I do a lot of work myself and happy to help!
Hayden wrote: Thanks for the reminder on permits. I will make sure we get needed permits, because I don't want any issues when we sell the house some day.
You won't need a permit unless you are moving plumbing/gas fixtures or adding fixtures (bar sink in island, etc.) In regard to selling your house, it won't cause a problem because if you had a sink and moved it 3' over, who's to say that sink wasn't there originally? The city doesn't have layout of your house, but DOES have your DFU count if something is added.
Last edited by ddurrett896 on Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

scone wrote:I do my own design and contracting work, which saves a lot. I often use Home Depot, because cabinets are very expensive, and "local cabinetmakers" can be all over the place in terms of price and quality. For the last remodel, I used HDs Innermost line, which is pretty good for the money, and made in the USA. The door style is Kingston, which is a very simple Shaker style. There are no inner fittings, and most of the cabinets are drawers. They were originally meant for another job, but I rejiggered the design to fit them into this kitchen. They are painted, green on the bottom and white uppers, which is trendy right now.

My countertops are IKEA butcher block from Poland, the sink is an IKEA apron front, and the flooring is a very thick matte commercial sheet vinyl. The appliances are white, not stainless. My husband did the electrical. I also did some of the painting, schlepping, and all the supervision. Our helpers were local handymen. I doubt a "high end craftsman" would have bothered to bid this job, as there was little money in it.

IIRC, we've spent about $11,500 so far, on a 10 x 13 space. I still need drawer pulls, and I'm debating about some sort of backsplash. The "cottage kitchen" design approach really saved the most money. Painted cabinets, white appliances, and butcher block are relatively inexpensive. If you go for cherry, stainless, and granite, you can blow through $30,000 on a kitchen that size without even breathing hard.
I'll have to look at IKEA. We don't have one near us, so I never think of them.

We are both engineers. We are very comfortable supervising contractors, but we don't want to do the work ourselves. We're trying to identify the most skilled individuals in the area, and then we will act as general contractor.
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

hand wrote:I took the following approach when doing a kitchen remodel to save a bit:

1) Recognize that labor, cabinets and appliances are likely the largest portion of the budget - the rest is noise.
2) Understand cost drivers of each of the categories and decide where to spend and where to save (we spent on quality labor and decent cabinets, but saved on appliances and labor intensive flourishes that didn't mean much to us.
3) Be prescriptive where it matters to you or where you are locked in for the long term - drawers vs. shelves, layout, cabinet style, light quality - and flexible / opportunistic where you can - we saved a bundle on clearance appliances
4) Many LED lighting options pay for themselves if installed new vs. retrofit. I'm specifically thinking of can lights for which incandescent + trim is often more expensive than the integrated LED units. Lower operating cost is simply a side benefit. Spend for high CRI LED.


P.S. We didn't go this direction, but if I were to do it again, I would have fought hard to use Ikea cabinets which are surprisingly high quality for the money and much less costly than anything above box store quality.
Good tips. We'll start looking at clearance appliances.
stan1
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by stan1 »

IKEA is a very specific style/look. If you plan on selling in the next 20 years I think you'd want to take the market value of the house and demographics/tastes of the neighborhood into account (urban, suburban, rural). If you want a modern European style IKEA is definitely a choice to consider over imported cabinets which could run $50K++++. If you want a shaker style cabinet there are many choices.

Pay attention to the details that are important to you. Dovetail joints on the drawers and soft close are important to us and wood veneer drawer interiors that you look at every day are nice, but frankly we are OK with white MDF laminate interior shelving. Consider putting pots and pans in drawers rather than on shelves in a base cabinet (makes it a lot easier to access them).
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
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Hayden
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

Opinions on the gas range? Consumer Reports recommends a Samsung, but the local store says the Wolf is much better. We've visited lots of open houses to get ideas, and we see Wolf and other high end names in all the houses in our price range (the house is worth about $600k).
stan1
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by stan1 »

Hayden wrote:Opinions on the gas range? Consumer Reports recommends a Samsung, but the local store says the Wolf is much better. We've visited lots of open houses to get ideas, and we see Wolf and other high end names in all the houses in our price range (the house is worth about $600k).
A good place to look for appliance input is Gardenweb (now run by Housz):
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
ddurrett896
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by ddurrett896 »

Hayden wrote:Opinions on the gas range? Consumer Reports recommends a Samsung, but the local store says the Wolf is much better. We've visited lots of open houses to get ideas, and we see Wolf and other high end names in all the houses in our price range (the house is worth about $600k).
We went with the GE Cafe" Series Free Standing Dual-Fuel Range with Baking Drawer (model: C2S985SETSS) and love it! It's dual fuel so you get the best of both gas and electric. We knew we wanted a double oven but most are a 60/40 split. This one is more like 80/20, so you can still accommodate a large turkey. The baking drawer is more than enough room with smaller dishes.

Another thing...buy a microwave that doubles as a convection oven. We went with GE Cafe" Series 1.5 Cu. Ft. Countertop Convection/Microwave Oven (model: CEB1590SSSS). We always bake small meals like pizza, chicken nuggets or meat balls and instead of heating up the oven, we use the small microwave oven that works perfect.

We tossed the idea around of the true double oven on wall plus range top, but after comparing the cost and the need for only 1 full size over, we went this route and ended up with 3 ovens.
Riverstwo
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Riverstwo »

Quartz is the new granite. Granite is on its way out thankfully because I never thought it would last. All the latest kitchen designs in the magazines are quartz for countertops. I would go with a classic backsplash otherwise you will be remodeling again in a few years!

I don't know how ANY self respecting kitchen chef can cook without a gas flame. I would go gas stovetop and electric oven. My kitchen designer did a fabulous job, don't know where you live but his name is Mark Michalsky Kitchens and he is in Maryland.
btenny
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by btenny »

Don't replace the cabinets, paint them or have them resurfaced. This saves huge $$ and if done right looks nice. Plus if you just paint/resurface them you can make the whole house cabinets match the kitchen by doing those the same way as well. We did over ours in white from dark wood and they look great.

Use lower cost granite. Like the commercial grade. It cost like $5K for a whole kitchen and $1.5K for a bathroom. It is more porous than the more expensive stuff. If you look closely at an angle you can see little pits but it is shinny and looks great from a 2-3 feet away. Also get the standard "bullnose edges". These are less than some fancy designs. So make some tradeoffs.

Use "home grade appliances" in lieu of commercial grade. They work better in normal sized home kitchens and don't over heat a home when baking or cooking. Get a regular sized refrigerator. Big Sub Zero style frigs are hugely expensive and crazy expensive to repair. Plus most sub zero styles require custom cabinet fronts that add huge $$ to the cost.

Put down ceramic tile or phony wood on the floors. Real wood get wet and scratched and needs refinishing.
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Kevin M
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Kevin M »

We did our kitchen using IKEA cabinets, an IKEA sink (close-out for $50), and an IKEA "integrated" dishwasher (looks like a cabinet).

We paid for the design service, but I don't know that we got good value there. The designer pointed out a couple of things we might not have thought of, but she also made multiple measurement mistakes and some errors in the design. My fiancee did the actual design that we ended up using (using the online IKEA design tool).

The local IKEA installation service got mixed reviews, so we found an independent contractor who did IKEA installations, and he was excellent; he had previously worked for the local IKEA installation outfit. He actually beat the IKEA installer's price. I probably could have done the install myself, but it would have taken much longer.

The demolition contractor for the IKEA install service wanted an outrageous amount for the demolition work, so I did that myself. I have a contractor friend who gave me tips.

I did my own electrical and plumbing work. My contractor's plumber wanted $800 to do what I could easily do myself. I also installed the IKEA vent hood myself.

Kevin
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
daveatca
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Re: Save?

Post by daveatca »

Hayden wrote:We were planning on Quartz, but then spoke...mark on the Quartz but not on the granite.
Why do you prefer single sink? My SO wants a double sink; I am undecided.
How does one go about finding a kitchen designer? Or just use the designer who works at the flooring/countertop store?
1. Granite is porous, quartz is not. Quartz is 93% stone. I am a quartz bigot and hate granite.
2. Single sink because it will hold large items such as cookie sheets. Ours is 29.5 x 16.5 x 9.0 deep.
3. Google is your friend. Then Yelp. The "designers" at the stores are not.
Rupert
Posts: 4122
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Rupert »

btenny wrote:Don't replace the cabinets, paint them or have them resurfaced. This saves huge $$ and if done right looks nice. Plus if you just paint/resurface them you can make the whole house cabinets match the kitchen by doing those the same way as well. We did over ours in white from dark wood and they look great.

Use lower cost granite. Like the commercial grade. It cost like $5K for a whole kitchen and $1.5K for a bathroom. It is more porous than the more expensive stuff. If you look closely at an angle you can see little pits but it is shinny and looks great from a 2-3 feet away. Also get the standard "bullnose edges". These are less than some fancy designs. So make some tradeoffs.

Use "home grade appliances" in lieu of commercial grade. They work better in normal sized home kitchens and don't over heat a home when baking or cooking. Get a regular sized refrigerator. Big Sub Zero style frigs are hugely expensive and crazy expensive to repair. Plus most sub zero styles require custom cabinet fronts that add huge $$ to the cost.

Put down ceramic tile or phony wood on the floors. Real wood get wet and scratched and needs refinishing.
Ceramic tile, yes. Laminate wood flooring, NO! It scratches and can't be refinished.
WhyNotUs
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by WhyNotUs »

When one tears out a kitchen, it is not uncommon to find surprise issues (water damage, out of square areas, electrical needs upgraded, etc. It is helpful to explore as much of that as you can prior to demo. Also really think through your plans and tape out any changes to make sure that you can see what it will look like before changes start, need to avoid change orders caused by not having fully vetted your plan. Another example is using shop lights to test lighting placement before any holes are cut.

Where I spend money
• plywood box or better cabinets with solid wood doors. I would never try to save with particle board/MDF boxes. Think through storage needs carefully, it will be a long time before you do this again.
• sink and faucet. Lots of use so buy quality brand that is built to last, it is also a place to spend a few extra bucks for trendy look
• counters- mid to upper grade in a timeless look
• Exterior venting of range hood.


Where I would save money
• appliances, quality brand in mid-grade look and work great. High end ranges and refrigerators are a waste of money IMO
• light fixtures
• specialty cabinets like appliance garages or self-closing drawers
• trying to relocate appliances/sink, unless the layout is a train wreck it is a waste
• island stove with high end range hood or downdraft
• computer station in kitchen- oops tablets have made them irrelevant
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
Calsaver
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Calsaver »

Looks like you have some great opinions so far, so I'm not sure I'll have anything groundbreaking to share.

My experience is that shopping around is good advice. I had a similar experience with the sink that someone else said, $1,200 list, we found it for ~$600+ (with me foolishly assuming a sink is going to cost what, like $200, right?). We found that through a local supplier, and when the countertop guys cracked it during the install the exchanged it, same day at no cost, so we certainly found a great benefit with going local.

In that theme, ask about price matching. If you'd like to go with a local supplier to support local business and/or get more personal service, but their prices are prohibitive, ask if they price match online prices, many do.

We bought our appliances during a labor day sale, but even then we obtained a significantly better price by shopping online, printing out the prices from websites and bringing to the store of our preference. They price matched lower than their sale price without batting an eye.

Re: ranges, we found a slide in range to be a great compromise for us between free standing and built in.

Consider craigslist or donating your old appliances.

Also we found unadvertised (or poorly advertised anyway) rebates for our appliances on the manufacturer's website, but not on the vendor's website. After purchase you fill out a form and they send you a prepaid visa for the amount we were eligible for.

On two remodels (separate houses, not the same one twice, thank goodness) we've saved money by working with the contractors and arranged for us to pick up some of the materials, so that you don't have to pay them their hourly rate to sit in traffic. This has worked for us for carpenters and the countertop guys, both of which seemed happy to not have to run the errands themselves. We just picked it up in our pickup, the countertop guy even lent us his a-frame for transporting slabs, and delivered it to their shop.

Often contractors have a great lead on where to purchase inexpensive but quality materials. We asked our countertop guy about cabinets and he sent us to a place that makes plywood box, wood door cabinets to order for very cheap. Same for slab material, with dozens of vendors in our area, the pricing varied considerably.

During our recent project, which is almost done, our cabinet guy told us that electricians are the most expensive and drywall is the least. So for us it was much more efficient to tear off all the drywall in an area that needed electrical work, do the electrical quickly and then pay a drywall team to replace/repair rather than spend countless hours trying to run wires in walls blind.

I agree with a previous poster that tile isn't that hard. It's not for everyone, and of course it depends on the job, but I've seen several "professional" tile setters do less than great work for a lot of money. My SO can do the best tile I've seen, and she isn't a pro, just patient and detail oriented. And amazing.

Also not for everyone, but DIY on select parts of the job has saved us thousands. On this most recent project we did demo, electrical, tile, paint, basic plumbing and trim. They did cabinets, carpentry, floors, drywall and provided some great advice and guidance on the work we did ourselves. I would not recommend this if you don't have some experience and tools, as well as resources to consult for if you find yourself not knowing what to do. It is very important to only accept high quality work, either from a contractor or yourself, or you're just be dealing with it again soon.

Good luck!
letsgobobby
Posts: 12073
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by letsgobobby »

What is your budget?

We spent $35k on a major remodel, but it was considered midrange and the kitchen was not big.

We had custom cabinets, granite countertop, new canned lighting, and hired a designer. The original kitchen was taken down to the studs in most cases. But saved money using a partly retired GC who had a good reputation; using midrange appliances; using a range rather than cooktop and oven; keeping the floors (nice hardwood, though we resurfaced them); and we didn't move any plumbing or any major electrical.

Also, since we used custom cabinets, we had them build the cabinets two inches deeper so we could use a standard fridge rather than a counter depth fridge. Counter depth fridges are a rip off. Also a routine, off the shelf microwave was used and the cabinetmakers built a surround so the microwave looks built in, but cost $200 and can easily be replaced in the future.

Larger kitchen high end remodels push $100k around here.

I really like to cook but see no point in $7000 fridges, $6000 ranges, etc. I am not impressed by fancy brands in the kitchens. I want to know what they can do. Then on my covered patio I will have a very hot grill and a very hot wok. I do my stir frying and deep frying out doors. My father in law does it in his garage. And he, my mom, and I, all have second fridges in a garage or utility room to avoid using precious kitchen space for the same. It works great.
stan1
Posts: 14246
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by stan1 »

It's not clear whether OP is looking for a low cost kitchen or looking to save money on a nice kitchen. That may help guide some of the answers. OP has told us the house's market value is $600K -- which even in a HCOL area means buyers would be expecting something beyond a basic Home Depot kitchen with tile counters (or would view the kitchen as a gut job).

Personally I would not put wood or wood laminate flooring in ANY kitchen although many people do. Refrigerators, dishwashers, and sinks can leak water and cause a lot of damage before its noticed. Even if you have the space to store 100-200 square feet of flooring material in case you need it for repairs it might not match due to fading/wear when you need it. Again if you don't care about this or view a homeowner's insurance claim as a way to get someone else to pay to remodel your kitchen next time its not an issue.

We are looking at nice wood plank porcelain tile for an upcoming kitchen/family room remodel. Look for 3D printed tile so that there is plenty of variation to avoid repetition of patterns. We live in a warm climate and don't mind tile on the floor since we have a dog. We'll also plan to stay in the house for another 20+ years so resale is a minor concern. It is a popular choice right now but its not a DIY job for most people. Because of the size of the tile (up to 48" long) it requires very good preparation and an installer experienced with this type of tile to avoid cracking.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
ddurrett896
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by ddurrett896 »

stan1 wrote:
We are looking at nice wood plank porcelain tile for an upcoming kitchen/family room remodel. Look for 3D printed tile so that there is plenty of variation to avoid repetition of patterns.
We just laid Style Selections Natural Timber Whitewash Glazed Porcelain Indoor/Outdoor Floor Tile from Lowes in our kitchen and its beyond gorgeous! People walk in my kitchen and think its real wood and when I tell them it's tile, they get down rub the cracks and knots. Send me a PM if you want pictures and I'll be happy to install.
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Hayden
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

stan1 wrote:It's not clear whether OP is looking for a low cost kitchen or looking to save money on a nice kitchen. That may help guide some of the answers. OP has told us the house's market value is $600K -- which even in a HCOL area means buyers would be expecting something beyond a basic Home Depot kitchen with tile counters (or would view the kitchen as a gut job).

Personally I would not put wood or wood laminate flooring in ANY kitchen although many people do. Refrigerators, dishwashers, and sinks can leak water and cause a lot of damage before its noticed. Even if you have the space to store 100-200 square feet of flooring material in case you need it for repairs it might not match due to fading/wear when you need it. Again if you don't care about this or view a homeowner's insurance claim as a way to get someone else to pay to remodel your kitchen next time its not an issue.

We are looking at nice wood plank porcelain tile for an upcoming kitchen/family room remodel. Look for 3D printed tile so that there is plenty of variation to avoid repetition of patterns. We live in a warm climate and don't mind tile on the floor since we have a dog. We'll also plan to stay in the house for another 20+ years so resale is a minor concern. It is a popular choice right now but its not a DIY job for most people. Because of the size of the tile (up to 48" long) it requires very good preparation and an installer experienced with this type of tile to avoid cracking.
This is a good point. I live in flyover country, not a HCOL area. This would be considered an expensive house. This may be another reason to consult a kitchen designer, to make sure the kitchen fits the price point of the house. I've asked the flooring, countertop, and appliance installation contractors for recommendations on kitchen designers. No one has had a local person they can recommend; they tell me that some homeowners fly in designers from Seattle or California! There's no way I'm going to do that!
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Hayden
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

ddurrett896 wrote:
stan1 wrote:
We are looking at nice wood plank porcelain tile for an upcoming kitchen/family room remodel. Look for 3D printed tile so that there is plenty of variation to avoid repetition of patterns.
We just laid Style Selections Natural Timber Whitewash Glazed Porcelain Indoor/Outdoor Floor Tile from Lowes in our kitchen and its beyond gorgeous! People walk in my kitchen and think its real wood and when I tell them it's tile, they get down rub the cracks and knots. Send me a PM if you want pictures and I'll be happy to install.
I just looked at it online. That is a beautiful floor!
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Topic Author
Hayden
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

Calsaver wrote:Looks like you have some great opinions so far, so I'm not sure I'll have anything groundbreaking to share.

My experience is that shopping around is good advice. I had a similar experience with the sink that someone else said, $1,200 list, we found it for ~$600+ (with me foolishly assuming a sink is going to cost what, like $200, right?). We found that through a local supplier, and when the countertop guys cracked it during the install the exchanged it, same day at no cost, so we certainly found a great benefit with going local.

In that theme, ask about price matching. If you'd like to go with a local supplier to support local business and/or get more personal service, but their prices are prohibitive, ask if they price match online prices, many do.

We bought our appliances during a labor day sale, but even then we obtained a significantly better price by shopping online, printing out the prices from websites and bringing to the store of our preference. They price matched lower than their sale price without batting an eye.

Re: ranges, we found a slide in range to be a great compromise for us between free standing and built in.

Consider craigslist or donating your old appliances.

Also we found unadvertised (or poorly advertised anyway) rebates for our appliances on the manufacturer's website, but not on the vendor's website. After purchase you fill out a form and they send you a prepaid visa for the amount we were eligible for.

On two remodels (separate houses, not the same one twice, thank goodness) we've saved money by working with the contractors and arranged for us to pick up some of the materials, so that you don't have to pay them their hourly rate to sit in traffic. This has worked for us for carpenters and the countertop guys, both of which seemed happy to not have to run the errands themselves. We just picked it up in our pickup, the countertop guy even lent us his a-frame for transporting slabs, and delivered it to their shop.

Often contractors have a great lead on where to purchase inexpensive but quality materials. We asked our countertop guy about cabinets and he sent us to a place that makes plywood box, wood door cabinets to order for very cheap. Same for slab material, with dozens of vendors in our area, the pricing varied considerably.

During our recent project, which is almost done, our cabinet guy told us that electricians are the most expensive and drywall is the least. So for us it was much more efficient to tear off all the drywall in an area that needed electrical work, do the electrical quickly and then pay a drywall team to replace/repair rather than spend countless hours trying to run wires in walls blind.

I agree with a previous poster that tile isn't that hard. It's not for everyone, and of course it depends on the job, but I've seen several "professional" tile setters do less than great work for a lot of money. My SO can do the best tile I've seen, and she isn't a pro, just patient and detail oriented. And amazing.

Also not for everyone, but DIY on select parts of the job has saved us thousands. On this most recent project we did demo, electrical, tile, paint, basic plumbing and trim. They did cabinets, carpentry, floors, drywall and provided some great advice and guidance on the work we did ourselves. I would not recommend this if you don't have some experience and tools, as well as resources to consult for if you find yourself not knowing what to do. It is very important to only accept high quality work, either from a contractor or yourself, or you're just be dealing with it again soon.

Good luck!
Thanks, Calsaver! These are great money saving tips!
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Topic Author
Hayden
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Hayden »

WhyNotUs wrote:When one tears out a kitchen, it is not uncommon to find surprise issues (water damage, out of square areas, electrical needs upgraded, etc. It is helpful to explore as much of that as you can prior to demo. Also really think through your plans and tape out any changes to make sure that you can see what it will look like before changes start, need to avoid change orders caused by not having fully vetted your plan. Another example is using shop lights to test lighting placement before any holes are cut.

Where I spend money
• plywood box or better cabinets with solid wood doors. I would never try to save with particle board/MDF boxes. Think through storage needs carefully, it will be a long time before you do this again.
• sink and faucet. Lots of use so buy quality brand that is built to last, it is also a place to spend a few extra bucks for trendy look
• counters- mid to upper grade in a timeless look
• Exterior venting of range hood.


Where I would save money
• appliances, quality brand in mid-grade look and work great. High end ranges and refrigerators are a waste of money IMO
• light fixtures
• specialty cabinets like appliance garages or self-closing drawers
• trying to relocate appliances/sink, unless the layout is a train wreck it is a waste
• island stove with high end range hood or downdraft
• computer station in kitchen- oops tablets have made them irrelevant
That division of where to spend money and where to save money is helpful. I'll have to start paying more attention to sinks and faucets. Thanks
yolli71
Posts: 451
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 9:53 am

Re: Save?

Post by yolli71 »

Hayden wrote:
daveatca wrote:Quartz, not granite
Integrated/built-in refrigerator
Induction hob
Single, not double sink
Top of the line garbage disposal
Speed oven
Hire a kitchen designer
We were planning on Quartz, but then spoke to a local countertop fabricator who said not to believe the hype about Quartz; granite is better. He had a sample of Quartz and showed that pen marks, scissor scratches left a mark on the Quartz but not on the granite.

Why do you prefer single sink? My SO wants a double sink; I am undecided.

how does one go about finding a kitchen designer? Or just use the designer who works at the flooring/countertop store?
We bought this sink for our kitchen remodel a few years ago and it's been great.
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/32 ... R:ProdName

It's really nice having one big sink you can fit large pots/pans in, especially when you have guests over and you're not ready to do dishes right away.
stan1
Posts: 14246
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by stan1 »

Before buying a stainless sink think about the noise generated when the water hits the sink surface. May not be an issue for some, but several of my friends who have stainless sinks wish they'd gone with something like Silgranit or even cast iron due to noise. I still have a 20 year old enameled cast iron sink and am not sure what to replace it with. I'm not at all convinced enameled cast iron is obsolete (although color enamel cast iron sinks are pricey).
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
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PaddyMac
Posts: 1808
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by PaddyMac »

We upgraded our kitchen last year to granite counters etc, with new appliances. Buy appliances at a big holiday weekend, or ask around for when deals are coming up.

We bought our Induction range on Amazon. LOVE it! It heats up faster than gas but without the heat and safety issues (it even turns itself off if you take the pot off the range). Over time it will save energy too. However, you may need to buy new pots that are induction compatible at the very least - induction "optimized" is better. I splurged on All-Clad and very pleased so far.
Rodc
Posts: 13601
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:46 am

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Rodc »

I upgraded my kitchen to solid cherry cabinets, added a dishwasher and dispose-all (none before), and maple floors, new stove, and such for a very modest amount.

Of course I started with raw unplaned cherry planks, some still with bark on the edges, and milled all the cabinetry all in my modest basement shop and installed it, and it took me 9 months. I did the plumbing and electrical myself.

Everything is expensive if you have to pay someone else to do the work - your only hope is to save a tiny amount of the total here are there on the margins. If you want to save big dollars do it yourself.

:)

Of course here I have assumed a lot. I think of a major remodel as a lot more than replacing some counters and appliances.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
WhyNotUs
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by WhyNotUs »

stan1 wrote:Before buying a stainless sink think about the noise generated when the water hits the sink surface. May not be an issue for some, but several of my friends who have stainless sinks wish they'd gone with something like Silgranit or even cast iron due to noise. I still have a 20 year old enameled cast iron sink and am not sure what to replace it with. I'm not at all convinced enameled cast iron is obsolete (although color enamel cast iron sinks are pricey).
Quality stainless sinks typically have a coating on the bottom to insulate sound.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
goodlifer
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by goodlifer »

We are sprucing up our kitchen and 1/2 bath. I used my Chase card to buy discounted gift cards off of cardpool.com and cardcash.com to buy what I needed from the big box stores. I just used my Chase points for a $100 Amazon card. I also looked for things on craigslist and bookoo.com, which is where I will be selling my old things. Ask a few realtors if they know someone who does flooring, cabinets, etc. Google before you buy if you know model #'s. I found the same garbage disposal a lot cheaper at Farm and Fleet of all places. I had no idea they sold things like that.

Forgot to mention that I bought a Samsung stove. I like it. It isn't perfect but I like it enough. There should be a few good sales coming up on Black Friday.
Last edited by goodlifer on Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lacrab
Posts: 17
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Lacrab »

I know it is anathema in these hallowed grounds, but when we remodeled last year, we used Chase Freedom card to 0% finance the whole thing for 16 months. 2% cash back right off the top for the balance which was $10,000+ like you had said. We had money saved equal to about 75% of the total, but we broke it up into 15 monthly payments instead rather than deplete savings.

Absolutely run away from "wood" cabinets that have mdfb for everything inside of them.

We had NO handles put on any of them, we chose a cut that has a slight ridge, pantries, cabinets, and drawers. Very helpful if you will have little ones running around. I was nervous about doing this, but it worked great, and its not like you can't put them in AFTER :wink: if you change your mind.

Will you be living here a while? We went with Corian Solid surface for the countertop, built in single sink, no seams anywhere. A crack developed on one corner about 8 months later, Dupont has a 10 year warranty for the original owner, they use heat to fill and remelt the area and I could not find a trace of the work even though I knew exactly where to look. We have been very pleased with the decisions and they were all money savers.
This space has been intentionally left blank, but required writing to notify you, so...yeah
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Watty
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Re: Tips for saving on major kitchen remodel

Post by Watty »

A few random things;

Take a hard look at moving instead of remodeling. You are done with the kitchen there may still be a laundry list of other improvements that the house will need. In addition to the cost you will not be living in a construction zone for a long time.

Consider how the kitchen layout would work if you were in a wheelchair. This is not only for when you are older, I have know several people that have had to use them for a while after they have been in an accident. You may not want to make it fully accessible but there is a lot that can be done like making sure there is enough space for a wheelchair between obstacles.

I don't know if they still have it but when we did out kitchen Home Depot gave you 10% off on your first purchase with their credit card. The limit was $200 on a $2,000 purchase. I think Lowes had it too

Take a hard objective look at hour house and your neighborhood and put in an appropriate kitchen for that. You don't want to go too cheap for an expensive house or put an expensive kitchen in a typical track home.

One thing that we like is that our contractor suggested was that we put a water filter in the unfinished basement below the kitchen. This feeds both a special small faucet for filtered water at the sink and the refrigerator ice maker. This did not cost very much either.

When the remodeling is going on plan on how you will do your cooking. You may be able to move your old refrigerator to the garage or basement, Use BBQ, Coleman stove, or microwave for cooking. You can use paper plates and plastic silverware but the biggest pain was cleaning up pots and pans without a kitchen sink. We probably ate takeout too much to avoid that.

You will have lots of contractors, sub-contractors, and laborors in your home. Be sure to secure your valuables, checkbooks, any guns, personal items, and computers.
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