Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

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Luv2savmoney
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Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Luv2savmoney » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:52 am

My car (infiniti I35) has been giving me some pains this year and I want to be proactive. we are a 1 car family and I need somthing dependable for 2 working adults and a daughter in school

I spent 16K when I bought it and drove for 8 years and 80K miles. $1500 per year.I am ready to move forward

My commute is roughly 1000 miles per month which equates to 50-55 gallons on the infiniti. I would like to go the hybrid route and expect to put take whatever the price of the car minus 4K that I would get on my current car. Expected savings in gasoline is 25 to 27 gallons per month roughly speaking is 75$ considering premium and midrange fuel.

I am looking at two options

Prius V - negotiated a 2012 with 15K miles to approx 20K OTD - monthly payment of $215 for a 7 yr 16K loan or $288 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $140 or $213 for said amount of years

Prius - a 2012 that is currently at $14,500. It has 45K miles. Negotiation pending. I am thinking of asking for a 15K OTD and see how that goes but this is a big dealership.Worst case would be 16K OTD. Monthly payment of $162 for 7 yr 12K loan or $216 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $87 or $140 depending on loan

what would the bogleheads recommend and why?

PS: I would have paid in cash but unfortunately bought a house recently. I do expect to clear the auto loan in 2 years

Detail addition: There is lot of city driving. My daily 30-35 mile commute is all city driving dropping daughter at school, wife at bus station, going to office and doing the same routine on the way back

I would prefer a wagon over a sedan. My other choices are subaru (expensive where I live, less mpg). I have not looked at other wagons besides volt (gave it up due to 2 seperate seats in back)
Last edited by Luv2savmoney on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

pincheeric
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by pincheeric » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:02 am

Prius V - negotiated a 2012 with 15K miles to approx 20K OTD - monthly payment of $215 for a 7 yr 16K loan or $288 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $140 or $213 for said amount of years

Prius - a 2012 that is currently at $14,500. It has 45K miles. Negotiation pending. I am thinking of asking for a 15K OTD and see how that goes but this is a big dealership.Worst case would be 16K OTD. Monthly payment of $162 for 7 yr 12K loan or $216 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $87 or $140 depending on loan
I think what you're missing in this analysis is what car you could purchase if you didn't get a Prius hybrid? It's more relevant to compare MPG savings versus that car than your Infiniti since it sounds like you're getting rid of that car anyway. I don't want to sway you from the more environmentally friendly choice (though with the battery factored in the friendliness is debatable), but there are many traditional gas cars out there with excellent fuel efficiency that will be cheaper OTD. You might then find that it takes 15-20 years to recoup the added expense of a hybrid via gas savings. As an example, I've been very happy with my Hyundai Elantra. If you want something a little larger for your family the Sonata is very nice too.

amd2135
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by amd2135 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:05 am

It sounds like you do a lot of highway driving. Hybrids are a great solution if you drive a lot of city miles. Have you considered a diesel or even a conventional gasoline car instead?

My SO has a '14 Mazda3 Touring (2.0L) and gets ~38mpg on the highway without trying for efficiency, ~42+ if she does. My '14 Mazda6 gets ~34 mpg not trying / ~38+ if I do. I have achieved 41mpg on a one-way highway trip with my '6 but I had to stay under 60 mph to get there.

To be fair, my SO has anything but a lead foot. She follows speed limits religiously. Me? ... Somewhat. :happy

Consumer Reports rates my Mazda6 between the Accord and Camry for reliability.

Edit: One caveat- these SkyActiv engines seem to lose some lower end torque above ~75ish *F unless you run 89 octane instead of the recommended 87. It'll run just fine at any temperature with 87 but you may find the power to be lacking at times.

I haven't noted any benefit from shelling out the extra for 87 without ethanol, unlike my previous vehicle.

Luv2savmoney
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Luv2savmoney » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:21 am

Thanks for the input

I should have added more detail

There is lot of city driving. My daily 30-35 mile commute is all city driving dropping daughter at school, wife at bus station, going to office and doing the same routine on the way back

I would prefer a wagon over a sedan. My other choices are subaru (expensive where I live, less mpg). I have not looked at other wagons besides volt (gave it up due to 2 seperate seats in back)
Last edited by Luv2savmoney on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mbk734
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by mbk734 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:24 am

I'd second the diesel recommendation for highway driving. Volkswagen Jetta/Passat or a BMW 3 Series. I would also look at the Honda Accord Hybrid.
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Desert
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Desert » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:34 am

Another vote for diesel. Over 38,000 miles on my 2013 Passat, I've averaged 44 mpg.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by MildlyEccentric » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:36 am

Our primary car is a 2006 Prius which we bought new. We've been very happy with it. Most of our driving is at 50 to 65 mph and the mileage has been in the 45-50 mpg range. We currently have over 150K miles on the car. The car is very good on maintenance. We're still on the original brake pads (regenerative braking) and will not have to change the timing belt as the car has a timing chain which does not need periodic replacement. You can find less expensive conventional cars with similar mileage ratings, but they will likely be smaller.

Stonebr
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Stonebr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:44 am

amd2135 wrote:It sounds like you do a lot of highway driving. Hybrids are a great solution if you drive a lot of city miles. Have you considered a diesel or even a conventional gasoline car instead?
In the real world we get better mpg on the highway in our Prius than in the city. City -- about 48; Highway -- anywhere from 50-56 depending on speed. Best is country roads -- 45 mph, no traffic, no stops -- the sky is the limit.
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Stonebr
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Stonebr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:50 am

Prius...

Negatives: performance is basically non-existent. You aren't driving a Prius for fun. Also, the AC defaults to blowing cold air in your face.

Positives: Interior space is more like a mid-size or large car than the Elantra someone compared it to above. Totally different cars for comfort and size. The regular Prius has that big cargo space in back: rear seats fold down FLAT. The Prius V is even bigger. Seats are more comfortable than our Corolla. For reliability, Prius is one of the best Toyotas. And that says a lot.
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Stonebr
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Stonebr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:52 am

Desert wrote:Another vote for diesel. Over 38,000 miles on my 2013 Passat, I've averaged 44 mpg.
We average over 50 in the Prius on highway -- regular gas. And we don't have to deal with VW reliability.
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Watty
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Watty » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 am

Luv2savmoney wrote:Prius V - negotiated a 2012 with 15K miles to approx 20K OTD - monthly payment of $215 for a 7 yr 16K loan or $288 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $140 or $213 for said amount of years

Prius - a 2012 that is currently at $14,500. It has 45K miles. Negotiation pending. I am thinking of asking for a 15K OTD and see how that goes but this is a big dealership.Worst case would be 16K OTD. Monthly payment of $162 for 7 yr 12K loan or $216 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $87 or $140 depending on loan

what would the bogleheads recommend and why?
You could get a new Corolla for about $17,000 and that would come with a full warranty.

I don't think that the better gas millage would pay for the extra cost if you kept whichever car you bought until it has 120k miles. (or whatever you are targeting)

Desert
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Desert » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:18 am

Stonebr wrote:
Desert wrote:Another vote for diesel. Over 38,000 miles on my 2013 Passat, I've averaged 44 mpg.
We average over 50 in the Prius on highway -- regular gas. And we don't have to deal with VW reliability.
Yeah, the Prius is a great car. But I just wanted to point out alternatives. The 44 mpg we've obtained is over all driving we've done, including city. And with a car that's roomier and safer than a Prius.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:29 am

Desert wrote:
Stonebr wrote:
Desert wrote:Another vote for diesel. Over 38,000 miles on my 2013 Passat, I've averaged 44 mpg.
We average over 50 in the Prius on highway -- regular gas. And we don't have to deal with VW reliability.
Yeah, the Prius is a great car. But I just wanted to point out alternatives. The 44 mpg we've obtained is over all driving we've done, including city. And with a car that's roomier and safer than a Prius.
I love my Prius. It has a turbo boost button which really pulls. Great for trips to Tahoe - we can really load that puppy up.

Consider buying it new. With incentives and new car research from Edmunds and Prius Chat, you will probably do just as well on an annualized basis.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Cheyenne » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:33 am

Prius... Negatives: performance is basically non-existent. You aren't driving a Prius for fun. Also, the AC defaults to blowing cold air in your face.
I like driving my 2004 - it's fun. It cruses at hwy speeds and has enough power for passing. I've also never had any complaints about the A/C.
Hybrids are a great solution if you drive a lot of city miles.
Not true. Despite the EPA estimates, hwy driving delivers better MPG.
Our primary car is a 2006 Prius which we bought new. We've been very happy with it. Most of our driving is at 50 to 65 mph and the mileage has been in the 45-50 mpg range. We currently have over 150K miles on the car. The car is very good on maintenance. We're still on the original brake pads (regenerative braking) and will not have to change the timing belt as the car has a timing chain which does not need periodic replacement. You can find less expensive conventional cars with similar mileage ratings, but they will likely be smaller.
Agree.
In the real world we get better mpg on the highway in our Prius than in the city.
Agree.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Stonebr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:35 am

Watty wrote:
Luv2savmoney wrote:Prius V - negotiated a 2012 with 15K miles to approx 20K OTD - monthly payment of $215 for a 7 yr 16K loan or $288 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $140 or $213 for said amount of years

Prius - a 2012 that is currently at $14,500. It has 45K miles. Negotiation pending. I am thinking of asking for a 15K OTD and see how that goes but this is a big dealership.Worst case would be 16K OTD. Monthly payment of $162 for 7 yr 12K loan or $216 for a 5 year loan. With gasoline savings this would translate to net of $87 or $140 depending on loan

what would the bogleheads recommend and why?
You could get a new Corolla for about $17,000 and that would come with a full warranty.

I don't think that the better gas millage would pay for the extra cost if you kept whichever car you bought until it has 120k miles. (or whatever you are targeting)
Prius has more roomy interior, more comfortable seats, hatchback with big cargo capabilities. Not really comparable to Corolla. We shopped ours against Corolla, Civic, and Mazda 3 wagon and the Prius was simply a bigger, better car. Mazda 3 was the most fun to drive, but felt cramped.
"have more than thou showest, | speak less than thou knowest" -- The Fool in King Lear

warner25
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by warner25 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:36 am

I have a Prius and I'd absolutely buy another one if I were looking for my next long-term car purchase. I say it's the least expensive car to own and operate over its lifetime (despite being bigger than most of the top competitors: Corolla, Civic, Fit, Insight, etc.), and I challenge anyone to show me their numbers if they believe otherwise.

I personally don't care for the Prius V, however. I don't think the marginal increase in space justifies the higher price and worse fuel economy. If it had a third row of seats, it would be a different story.

To the suggestion a diesel VW Passat: That looks like paying a lot more money for less cargo space, worse fuel economy, and more expensive fuel per gallon.
Watty wrote:You could get a new Corolla for about $17,000 and that would come with a full warranty... I don't think that the better gas millage would pay for the extra cost if you kept whichever car you bought until it has 120k miles.
... but in the end, the Prius still wins. Keeping one long past 120k miles doesn't strike me as difficult at all. Mine still looks and feels almost new at 100k miles, with nothing but relatively low-cost scheduled maintenance so far. Don't forget the higher resale value even if one does sell early.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by grabiner » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:58 am

Look at the cost and the value involved. Given your driving, a hybrid will probably save you a lot of gas; subtract those gas savings to the price and see whether you could get an equally good conventional-engine car for that price.

I made the same decision in 2006, although I guessed wrong. I wanted to buy a Honda Civic, and could buy either a conventional or hybrid. With my commute entirely on a freeway, I estimated that the extra cost of the hybrid would be more than the value of the gas it saved. This turned out to be wrong, both because gas prices rose and because I moved to New Jersey for a few years and lived ten miles from the nearest freeway; the hybrid would have saved me a lot more gas in New Jersey.
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:19 am

Prius used is a very economical option. But you'll give up a lot in performance and road noise compared to your Infiniti. However compared to a Corolla or Camry, not as clear cut. Camry is quite a bit quieter.

We like our 12 Prius.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by novicemoney » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:35 am

I really like our 2014 prius hatchback. We lucked out and got a good price when a fleet deal fell through and the dealer needed to decrease his inventory. Since we are on the edge of retirement we made a conscious decision to buy things that would reduce our monthly expenses (this may have not worked out as dramatically because gas is so artificially cheap now, but reversion to mean...). One point you may need to consider is that prius' have some idiosyncrasies. One is that some people don't like the vision limitations. By this I mean because of the aero shape there are definitely blind spots at the corners and throught the rear. I find that I need to take extra care to move my head to look around the front rear corners. I find that I definitely need the back up camera, vision is bad looking behind at my six. My point is you should try driving one and your spouse too to see if it is an issue. Some people don't think it is one, I do but have learned to compensate.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by greg24 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:19 pm

We have a 2010 Prius that we've had for 5 years. We like it. A Prius is a better car than a Corolla or Elantra, both larger and nicer fit and finish. The back seat in the Prius has much more leg room than a Corolla or Civic, which was important for us since our kids are tall.

We also get better mileage on the highway, and average 49 to 50 overall. My wife is the primary driver and she makes zero effort to conserve gas.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by lightheir » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:15 pm

I'll pile on in the +1 for the Prius. It's as good as the claims above.

I will, however, definitely add that you WILL notice the performance hit when coming from an Infiniti. I guarantee it. You might not think you value 'fun driving' at all (esp caught in traffic), and in reality you will almost certainly reset your 'norm' of what you consider good everyday driving after just a week with the Prius, but you will definitely notice a performance difference compared to an Infiniti in your first go-arounds in the Prius. I'm one of the last people seeking any sort of performance in a car (I drive like a grandperson even though I'm not) but even I noticed that its set for "eco-mode" driving by default, which means you really only get the oomph if you really step on that pedal.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by sambb » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:26 pm

can't go wrong with a prius, civic, corolla, accord, camry etc. these are all mainstream cars. the differences are interesting, but they are all a reasonable choice. i have owned all sorts of cars, exotics and hondas, toyotas and porsche. the basic mission of these common cars ensures that they meet a whole range of needs and they do it well. nothing wrong with any of them.

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by sharpjm » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:28 pm

Consider a 3rd option (if your budget allows): 2014/15 Accord Hybrid. It gets 45 Hwy / 50 City and isn't a tiny box car. It probably has just as much room as your current Infinity. The base model is $30k new and the full feature model (reverse camera, nav, bluetooth, heated seats, etc) is $35k new. No idea about used prices.

scouter
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by scouter » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:13 pm

Really hard to beat the Prius overall, especially when considering reliability. A recent Consumer Reports mentioned that their auto testers are always questioned at parties and dinners and their stock answer is "just get a Prius."

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Dimitri » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:52 pm

My wife has a 2012 Prius C (bought as a left-over in early 2013). To date she has realized 47.9 mpg over just under 40,000 miles. When she first bought it she was commuting 130 miles a day. The speed limit is 70 and she doesn't have much regard for it. If she drove slower no doubt the mileage would be more impressive. The C is intended to be a city car (hence the C) but it does just fine on the highway. Maybe the C is too small for you, maybe not. But it will be less than a regular Prius. That said, I'm seeing new 2015 Prius Twos advertised for $19,488 (plus $80 doc fee and state tax) in Northern California (MSPR $25,250). If you are in the Western Region you should expect to find a similar price at your local dealer. Right now you are in a sweet spot to buy a 2015 Prius as the 2016 is a redesigned model. If I drove a significant distance to work I would be jumping on one at that price. Anyway, I don't think you can go wrong with buying a Toyota in general. My brother-in-law (in Japan) just bought a Prius (traded in a turbo Subaru (turbo was shot)) and he loves it. Good luck with your decision.
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by msprotege » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:14 pm

I have a 2012 Prius 3 that I bought for 20k a year ago with 12k miles on it and a certified preowned. Just hit 36k miles probably about 50/50 city highway and I consistently get 56 to 60 MPG. or at least thats what the dash says. When i do the math after filling up its normally 2 or 3 mpg lower. but averaging about 55 MPG is pretty awesome.

The only regret I have is buying the Prius 3 with the sunroof instead of just getting a cheaper Prius 2.

Still love the car though.

If you drive all city and really try I bet you could consistently get over 60MPG. but even without trying you'll get above 50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XxB6ma7qu8

I watched that when I first bought the car.

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Suggest you take another look at the Volt

Post by Bammerman » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:07 pm

I know you said you rejected the Chevy Volt because it has just two seats in the rear, but I strongly recommend that you take another, harder look. The latest model Volt will seat three in the rear, the middle seat being a "jumpseat" that might work best for a child or small person or child seat.

We have a Prius (bought new 2010) and a Volt (bought new 2013). My wife drives the Prius and it's a fine car, no complaints. I drive the Volt AND I LOVE IT. Powerful car, comfortable (front) seats, high quality, high dependability, and I have to put gas in it ONCE EVERY FEW MONTHS, unless I take a long road trip (Chicago to W. NC round trip, 40 mpg). It would be perfect for a daily commute as you describe of 35 miles or so. You would be on electric all that time: silent, powerful driving, and using no gasoline at all. Just plug it in when you get home and recharge overnight. It costs me approximately $3 to charge my Volt overnight, which means I can drive the next day 35-45 miles (less in cold weather, more in warm) for about $3! Most "braking" is actually regeneration so I don't expect to ever have to change the real brake pads, because they are seldom used.

Oh yes, there's also that little thing of the $7500 tax credit, perhaps more depending on your state, if you buy new. Almost forgot to mention that.

As they say, "your mileage will vary" but I recommend that you take another, closer look at the Chevy Volt. (If you could live with two seats in the rear you'd find some terrific bargains on used Volts now thanks to decreased gas costs / leased Volts coming up for sale.)

(One last edit, which I hesitate to add given that this is the Bogleheads forum and we Bogleheads should only think about utilitarian things and never about fun or pleasure, but let it be said anyway just to be complete and truthful, I've driven both the Prius and the Volt, and the Volt is a better car (fit and finish) and a hell of a lot more fun to drive!)

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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by hoops777 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:21 pm

Just bought a new 2015 Prius for 18,991.Prius is a great car...roomy,great mileage and very dependable.At these prices it is hard to beat inless you want something sporty.Put the rear seats down and the storage is huge.They are redesigning for 2016 which is why you can get one at the lowest prices ever.I decided to not wait and pay 5,6,7000 more for the new one.The current one also has a long proven record and you just never know for sure with the first year of a redesign.
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by IowaFarmBoy » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:35 pm

Just bought a 2015 Prius v Three for about 25k plus TTL. They are running pretty good rebates and sales right now. Happy with it after 4 days. It claims to have averaged 44 mpg over the first 150 miles, a combination of town and little highway. A lot of town was shorter trips with cooling off in between so it incurs a penalty for warming up.

One thing to consider if you can afford the price jump to a new 2015 v- they made a significant upgrade to the 2015 v for front end safety. If you have access to Consumer Reports, you might want to check that out.

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Re: Suggest you take another look at the Volt

Post by Lars_2013 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:20 pm

I have a Prius C, which I like (I'm not a car person, so I'm never going to "love" a car), but the C is very different than the cars you're considering (the regular Prius and the Prius V). I would also say those are also very different cars from each other. What size car does your family really need? If the regular Prius is big enough for your family, I think you should be comparing it to cars like the Mazda 3 hatchback, the diesel Golf hatchback/wagon, etc.

If the Prius V is the size car your family wants/needs, then the correct comparison cases are other wagons and small SUVs, like the Passat wagon, the Mazda CX-5, etc.
Bammerman wrote:It costs me approximately $3 to charge my Volt overnight, which means I can drive the next day 35-45 miles (less in cold weather, more in warm) for about $3!
This is a little off topic, but, Bammerman, I would actually expect your cost on the Volt to be less than $3 to go 35-45 miles, although I realize that it might be due to your electricity costs being higher than the national average. But if your Volt goes, let's say, 2.7 miles per kwh (which I think is about right) and your electricty costs 12 cents per kwh, your cost to go 40 miles should only be about $1.78. Which makes it actually cheaper than, say, the regular Prius, which would go the same 40 miles for about $2.00, assuming gas cost of $2.50 and 50 mpg.

Is your cost on the Chevy Volt really running $3 to go 35 or 45 miles? I would find that a little disappointing unless your electricity costs are higher than is typical nationally.

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Bammerman
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My cost to charge the Volt

Post by Bammerman » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:59 pm

Lars_2013:
Is your cost on the Chevy Volt really running $3 to go 35 or 45 miles?
Sorry, I wrote that post too quickly.

My Volt's electric consumption is 32 kW-hr per 100 miles. My electricity cost is $.1141 per kWh. So 100 miles = $3.65, but I can't cram that much electricity in the car's battery. The most I can charge the battery in warm weather (summer) takes me 45 miles, say about $1.60 --- less in cold weather, around 33 miles, say about $1.25.

But, let's face it, I'm an old liberal-arts kind of guy, and my grasp of math has always been shaky at best. For your entertainment, here's a post I made to the Volt owner's forum after a year with the Volt (you pick the version you find most convincing):
I've driven just 6,944 miles since purchasing my 2013 Volt new on January 23, 2014. Most of those miles were driven in and around my home town. I took one road trip of about 600 miles, and this accounts for most of the gasoline burned. The car's computer indicates that, of all the miles driven, some 5,851 were "electric", saving 234 gallons of gasoline.

According to the Volt's trip odometer, I have burned 38.5 gallons of gasoline in the year that I've operated the car. I bought most of these on the road trip back in May, whey prices were higher, and I estimate an average cost of $3.41 per gallon of premium gas, for a total of $131.

Of course it costs money to charge the car's battery; I estimated this cost by comparing my electricity bills for the past 12 months with the bills for the preceding 12 months. Since I do not use electricity to heat my house and have not changed my habits or acquired or lost any electric-powered appliances, I think it's reasonable to believe that any significant change in my electric bills must be due to charging the Volt. I spent $208 more on electricity during the year that I've owned the Volt, compared to the 12 months prior to my purchase of the Volt. That works out to $0.57 per day to charge up the battery each night.

So I figure that it cost me a total of $339 ($131 for gasoline and $208 for electricity) to drive the Volt 6,944 miles in the year I've owned the car. That's $0.049 per mile, or $0.93 per day.

And I just happen to be doing my taxes these days too, so I should also mention that it was a lot of fun to enter the $7,500 credit in my tax calculations!

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Aptenodytes
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Aptenodytes » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:00 pm

Your driving patterns make you a perfect candidate for an electric car that can also run on gas when needed, such as the Chevy volt. New 2015s are available for about $23,000 if you qualify for the tax rebate.

I will now reveal that I own this car and like it very much. Battery range is circa 40 miles, and the best range is with city driving.

wcshaff
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by wcshaff » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:28 pm

Let me add my two cents on another option to consider: the Ford C-Max Energi. I have had the C-Max since January 2013 and think it is a great car. This is a plug-in hybrid with a range upwards of 30 miles (lower in winter). With your daily commute, you can come pretty close to all electric. I have a similar daily commute and have averaged about 280MPG over 15K miles (this does not factor in the electricity). The C-Max Energi model has received a substantial tax credit (both state and federal, maybe $4-5K) that is based on the size of the batteries. There was also some cashback from Ford. This may get you down close to your ballpark.

I would encourage you to test drive the C-Max and compare to the Prius models you are considering. I think you'll find a jarring difference. The C-Max interior is spacious (I am 6' 5"), has the look and finish of a quality sedan, leather seats, a normal car layout with familiar stick shift, all the electronics (USB, 12V, 120V) you need, comfortable driving position. The car seats five (plus has the hatchback) and I am able to sit comfortably in any of the five seats. The car is quiet, accelerates smoothly and quickly, tracks assuredly, handles well. The PHEV implementation is superior, giving you the ability to switch on the fly from mode to mode - Hybrid, EV, EV Later. You can accelerate up to about 85mph in EV mode. The braking regen is well-done, even providing you with a grade on how well you did coming to a stop. The transmission regen is even more impressive, especially if you happen to be in Colorado -- it regen'ed 15 miles of EV in about 20 min going downhill. I would note that Ford and Toyoto have cross licensed hybrid technology for years. I have driven both cars and as you can tell, much prefer the Energi.

If this sounds interesting, test drive the C-Max and compare.

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TinyElvis
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by TinyElvis » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:43 pm

Luv2savmoney wrote:I spent 16K when I bought it and drove for 8 years and 80K miles.
80,000 miles is not that many. What kind of troubles is the car giving you? How far would $1000 in maintenance get you?

Luv2savmoney
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Luv2savmoney » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:33 pm

Ended up buying the prius last week at 20K and liking it so far. Looks like I should have checked out the C-max
Was able to transport some adirondack chairs and a snowblower that would not have fit in infiniti
Drove all week and 160 miles later tank is about 3/4 full :)

Elvis,

It is almost 100K miles..80K is what I put on. It is mechanically sound but being a one car family, it is a nuisance.
A check engine comes on which might be cheap to expensive for an fuel leak.
Leather seat torn due to not having a garage most of my ownership
Wife does not drive it due to seat position and turning radius
Ended up selling for a bit less than 5K. Buyer seemed very knowledgeable about car and am sure he will fix it and get easy 50-75K. In the end it cost me more like 1420$ per year of owning it besides regular stuff (oil,brakes etc)

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DrippingSprings
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by DrippingSprings » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:28 pm

If you are looking to save money on gas with your Prius, look into hypermiling. I can get over 70 miles per gallon in my Prius C in the city. Go over to Priuschat.com and learn how to use the display on your dash to enhance your gas mileage.

Luv2savmoney
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Luv2savmoney » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:20 am

will do.

I checked my MPG yesterday (calculated by actual fill) and it was 55.

Kaufmanrider
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Kaufmanrider » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:44 am

Luv2savmoney wrote:will do.

I checked my MPG yesterday (calculated by actual fill) and it was 55.
We bought a,2015 prius in June. Just had 5000 mile service. Since purchase we are averaging 48 miles per gallon. Originally we bought it for mostly city driving but in July learned I had to drive dallas to Houston a couple weekends a month. It is 600 miles round trip mostly highway averaging 75-80 miles per hour. I had though fuel economy would drop but I was pleasantly surprised how well mpgs are on the highway at those speeds.

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Hexdump
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Hexdump » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:10 am

trebordet wrote:

Hybrids are a great solution if you drive a lot of city miles.
Not true. Despite the EPA estimates, hwy driving delivers better MPG.
In the real world we get better mpg on the highway in our Prius than in the city.
Agree.
Very interesting as we are shopping for a super economical city driving car. I had been under the impression that hybrids were better for city driving yet according to others here, that is not so.
Hmmm, back to the drawing boards.

cjking
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by cjking » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:17 am

A couple of people have responded to the idea that the Prius is suited to city driving by saying that theirs gets better mileage on the highway. They are missing the point, the issue isn't where a Prius gets better mileage, it's where it has a comparative advantage. In city driving the hybrid technology gives an advantage over other cars, whereas that fades away in highway conditions. (It's not just a question of which is best, but whether the hybrid can justify any extra cost. So even if the Prius is better than a different car on the highway, it may not be better by enough.)

Cheyenne
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Cheyenne » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:57 am

In city driving the hybrid technology gives an advantage over other cars, whereas that fades away in highway conditions.
I don't follow you. Could explain what you mean by the Prius' hybrid technology advantage fades away in highway conditions?

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wander
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by wander » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:13 pm

trebordet wrote:
In city driving the hybrid technology gives an advantage over other cars, whereas that fades away in highway conditions.
I don't follow you. Could explain what you mean by the Prius' hybrid technology advantage fades away in highway conditions?
Why Do Hybrid Cars Get Such Great City Gas Mileage?

cjking
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by cjking » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:20 pm

trebordet wrote:
In city driving the hybrid technology gives an advantage over other cars, whereas that fades away in highway conditions.
I don't follow you. Could explain what you mean by the Prius' hybrid technology advantage fades away in highway conditions?
To use some made-up numbers, what I'm trying to say is that the hybrid may use half as much fuel as a car it's being compared with in city conditions, but only 10% less on the highway. Most ordinary cars get much worse mileage in city conditions than they do on the highway, but for the Prius the difference is much smaller.

At a steady 50mph, a Prius and a non-hybrid powered by the same fuel aren't really doing anything different to each other, so there's no intrinsic reason why the Prius should be a lot more efficient. At lower speeds with frequent changes of speed, the hybrid technology comes into play, smoothing out demand on the engine and allowing it to run more efficiently.

I'm sure there are several people on this site with a better understanding than me, so if I'm getting anything wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected soon.

Cheyenne
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by Cheyenne » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:34 pm

During my 7 years of driving a Prius I've always gotten better gas mileage on long highway trips. I know what the EPA testing shows but that has not been my experience and other Prius drivers here agree. This has been discussed here before but I can't find the link. It involves the car taking a while to heat-up before entering normal driving mode, so short trips burn more gas, and in town people tend to accelerate quickly from stop signs and that burns a lot of gas - real-world things like that that the the EPA testing did not take into consideration.

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DrippingSprings
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Re: Prius owners and rest of Bogleheads

Post by DrippingSprings » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:24 pm

Actually I get far better mileage either in cities or hilly country roads than I do on the highway with my Prius C. In cities or hilly country roads it is much easier to do pulse and glide or driving with load than it is on the highway.

The way the car is driven has a tremendous influence on the mpg.. For example, once a month we make a 2.5 hour trip which is partly highway miles. My wife gets around 50-54 mpg and I get 60-62 mpg on exactly the same route in the same Prius C.

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