SUV advice

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Kennerboy
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Kennerboy »

consider going a little larger. kids won't be getting any smaller in a few years. suggest you look at Toyota Highlander.
s2kmw
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Re: SUV advice

Post by s2kmw »

2nd the toyota highlander. Did a good amount of research and test drove the pathfinder, explorer, and highlander. Wanted 3 row seating and did not want a mini-van or a giant bulky SUV like suburban or acadia. Came from driving a '99 4-runner and the highlander is about the same size. Handling and driving was smooth and great and it just felt natural. Also the highlander has some small, thoughtful things like the shelf under the dash which is great for small things like sunglasses, parking passes, phone, etc. The 2nd row windows have built-in sun shades that pull up from the bottom of the window - nice surprise since we have a child and we threw away our old stick on window shade. Each row has their own vents on both sides. The 3rd row is actually able to recline.
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sunny_socal
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Re: SUV advice

Post by sunny_socal »

Browser wrote:Everyone hits the samo samo brands: honda, toyota, subaru -- yawn..... In the meantime, the Korean brands are now beating them all in initial quality ratings by JD Power. Kia is second to Porsche! Hyundai is 4th. Toyota is 10th and Honda is 14th. Subaru is way down there somewhere near the bottom of the pack. They're just ahead of Fiat, Chrysler, and the Smartcar. These brands have been living off the fumes of their once and past reputations.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2 ... -study-iqs
Yeah, but...

If you were to focus on just this "initial" quality then the following BH darlings fall below average and would get jettisoned from the start:
- Subaru (gasp!)
- Volvo (what?)
- Acura (no way!)

I've had very good luck with Honda and terrible luck with Ford. I'm not interested in rolling the dice with Kia/Hyundai to 'save' a few bucks from the initial purchase price. I believe even the automobile market is 'Efficient' and therefore Honda/Toyota/Subaru deserve their good reputations. Every single car has their problems at some point. The H/T/S have less than others.

I wouldn't fault someone for trying a Kia/Hundai. There are a lot more of them on the road these days. I'd pick them over a Chevy or a Buick! :)
Browser
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

sunny_socal wrote:
Browser wrote:Everyone hits the samo samo brands: honda, toyota, subaru -- yawn..... In the meantime, the Korean brands are now beating them all in initial quality ratings by JD Power. Kia is second to Porsche! Hyundai is 4th. Toyota is 10th and Honda is 14th. Subaru is way down there somewhere near the bottom of the pack. They're just ahead of Fiat, Chrysler, and the Smartcar. These brands have been living off the fumes of their once and past reputations.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2 ... -study-iqs
Yeah, but...

If you were to focus on just this "initial" quality then the following BH darlings fall below average and would get jettisoned from the start:
- Subaru (gasp!)
- Volvo (what?)
- Acura (no way!)

I've had very good luck with Honda and terrible luck with Ford. I'm not interested in rolling the dice with Kia/Hyundai to 'save' a few bucks from the initial purchase price. I believe even the automobile market is 'Efficient' and therefore Honda/Toyota/Subaru deserve their good reputations. Every single car has their problems at some point. The H/T/S have less than others.

I wouldn't fault someone for trying a Kia/Hundai. There are a lot more of them on the road these days. I'd pick them over a Chevy or a Buick! :)
Something to think about though, isn't it? If these brands are so hot then why in heck do they do so poorly in initial quality ratings? I'm struggling with this myself. These are based on ratings of 2015 vehicles. The same brands do much better in the Vehicle Dependability ratings, but these are based on ratings of cars that are 3 years old. JD Power seems to conclude that the Korean brands have gotten much better in the last 3 years, while the Japanese brands and others haven't. If that's the case, then this should be reflected in better Dependability ratings for the Koreans vs. others later on. BTW, the Chevy and Buick actually do pretty good in the initial quality ratings as well so not sure you should turn up your nose at these. Maybe it's time to change the mindset.
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easye418
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

Kennerboy wrote:consider going a little larger. kids won't be getting any smaller in a few years. suggest you look at Toyota Highlander.
s2kmw wrote:2nd the toyota highlander. Did a good amount of research and test drove the pathfinder, explorer, and highlander. Wanted 3 row seating and did not want a mini-van or a giant bulky SUV like suburban or acadia. Came from driving a '99 4-runner and the highlander is about the same size. Handling and driving was smooth and great and it just felt natural. Also the highlander has some small, thoughtful things like the shelf under the dash which is great for small things like sunglasses, parking passes, phone, etc. The 2nd row windows have built-in sun shades that pull up from the bottom of the window - nice surprise since we have a child and we threw away our old stick on window shade. Each row has their own vents on both sides. The 3rd row is actually able to recline.
Looks like a very nice offering. Very interested.

If our child comes out in 2017, would it be worth searching for an used 2015 top trim or just buying brand new since Toyotas hold their value so well?

Just pure speculation. Haven't test drove any of them.

Also, does anyone know a good site to research used models? I'd like to know if the 2015 model was a good one in 2017.
killjoy2012
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Re: SUV advice

Post by killjoy2012 »

People need to stop living the 1980's.
new2bogle
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Re: SUV advice

Post by new2bogle »

easye418 wrote:
bottlecap wrote:If you don't have any kids on the way yet and are planning to buy used, I don't think you need to buy according to baby needs just yet. You aren't going to be killed by depreciation if you resell and rebuy, although it is a little more work. Get what you want now and worry about kids later.

If you do get an SUV, I'd tend to go with a larger one for cargo space and safety reasons, but realize that upon having two kids, even a large SUV is going to seem a bit small compared to a minivan. So, it's likely that after kid No. 2, you'll swallow your pride and start thinking about a minivan, so keep it in mind that the SUV might become the second vehicle and not so kid-centric after a while.

JT
Thoughts on a preowned Lexus RX? Maybe snag a 2016 Honda Pilot sometime next year used?
We had a Lexus RX 350 (used) until we had kid #3. Excellent car for 1-2 kids. It is easier to get an infant carrier out of an SUV. That being said, I drive my older kids in a sedan but they are in booster seats and mostly buckle themselves in.
new2bogle
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Re: SUV advice

Post by new2bogle »

s2kmw wrote:2nd the toyota highlander. Did a good amount of research and test drove the pathfinder, explorer, and highlander. Wanted 3 row seating and did not want a mini-van or a giant bulky SUV like suburban or acadia. Came from driving a '99 4-runner and the highlander is about the same size. Handling and driving was smooth and great and it just felt natural. Also the highlander has some small, thoughtful things like the shelf under the dash which is great for small things like sunglasses, parking passes, phone, etc. The 2nd row windows have built-in sun shades that pull up from the bottom of the window - nice surprise since we have a child and we threw away our old stick on window shade. Each row has their own vents on both sides. The 3rd row is actually able to recline.
Fully investigate the cargo space in the back whilst utilizing the 3rd row seat. Anything larger than a one child umbrella stroller will not fit. This is why we had to go with a minivan.
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TxAg
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Re: SUV advice

Post by TxAg »

new2bogle wrote:
s2kmw wrote:2nd the toyota highlander. Did a good amount of research and test drove the pathfinder, explorer, and highlander. Wanted 3 row seating and did not want a mini-van or a giant bulky SUV like suburban or acadia. Came from driving a '99 4-runner and the highlander is about the same size. Handling and driving was smooth and great and it just felt natural. Also the highlander has some small, thoughtful things like the shelf under the dash which is great for small things like sunglasses, parking passes, phone, etc. The 2nd row windows have built-in sun shades that pull up from the bottom of the window - nice surprise since we have a child and we threw away our old stick on window shade. Each row has their own vents on both sides. The 3rd row is actually able to recline.
Fully investigate the cargo space in the back whilst utilizing the 3rd row seat. Anything larger than a one child umbrella stroller will not fit. This is why we had to go with a minivan.
I agree. We are in the market for a larger vehicle but I do not want the third row. We prefer the cargo space.
Browser
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

TxAg wrote:
new2bogle wrote:
s2kmw wrote:2nd the toyota highlander. Did a good amount of research and test drove the pathfinder, explorer, and highlander. Wanted 3 row seating and did not want a mini-van or a giant bulky SUV like suburban or acadia. Came from driving a '99 4-runner and the highlander is about the same size. Handling and driving was smooth and great and it just felt natural. Also the highlander has some small, thoughtful things like the shelf under the dash which is great for small things like sunglasses, parking passes, phone, etc. The 2nd row windows have built-in sun shades that pull up from the bottom of the window - nice surprise since we have a child and we threw away our old stick on window shade. Each row has their own vents on both sides. The 3rd row is actually able to recline.
Fully investigate the cargo space in the back whilst utilizing the 3rd row seat. Anything larger than a one child umbrella stroller will not fit. This is why we had to go with a minivan.
I agree. We are in the market for a larger vehicle but I do not want the third row. We prefer the cargo space.
In which case you should investigate the 2016 Kia Sorento. Bigger than most 5-passenger SUVs and can be had w/o the 3rd row. Kind of a small-midsize. But actually the 3rd row isn't bad on them either.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.
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easye418
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

killjoy2012 wrote:People need to stop living the 1980's.
Care to elaborate?
new2bogle wrote: We had a Lexus RX 350 (used) until we had kid #3. Excellent car for 1-2 kids. It is easier to get an infant carrier out of an SUV. That being said, I drive my older kids in a sedan but they are in booster seats and mostly buckle themselves in.
:sharebeer
s2kmw
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Re: SUV advice

Post by s2kmw »

easye418 wrote: Looks like a very nice offering. Very interested.

If our child comes out in 2017, would it be worth searching for an used 2015 top trim or just buying brand new since Toyotas hold their value so well?

Just pure speculation. Haven't test drove any of them.

Also, does anyone know a good site to research used models? I'd like to know if the 2015 model was a good one in 2017.
The highlander is in it's 3rd generation now - so they had a few chances to work out issues. Not sure if they will do a redesign by 2017. I have a 2015 model - so far no complaints! As far as new vs used goes - there's a lot to consider. For the highlander specifically - there wasn't too much of a price difference between new and used (2014) when I was looking.
new2bogle wrote: Fully investigate the cargo space in the back whilst utilizing the 3rd row seat. Anything larger than a one child umbrella stroller will not fit. This is why we had to go with a minivan.
Good point. The cargo space when using the 3rd row is not as deep as a minivan b/c the spare tire and tire changing toolkit is under there. We decided it wasn't too much of an issue for us. We felt like it was the best compromise in terms of cargo space vs seating capacity vs size of car
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easye418
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

s2kmw wrote:
easye418 wrote: Looks like a very nice offering. Very interested.

If our child comes out in 2017, would it be worth searching for an used 2015 top trim or just buying brand new since Toyotas hold their value so well?

Just pure speculation. Haven't test drove any of them.

Also, does anyone know a good site to research used models? I'd like to know if the 2015 model was a good one in 2017.

Excellent to hear. However, used car prices are so high :confused . I doubt I will be able to get a good deal on a used one in 2017, however, we shall see.
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TxAg
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Re: SUV advice

Post by TxAg »

Browser wrote:
TxAg wrote:
new2bogle wrote:
s2kmw wrote:2nd the toyota highlander. Did a good amount of research and test drove the pathfinder, explorer, and highlander. Wanted 3 row seating and did not want a mini-van or a giant bulky SUV like suburban or acadia. Came from driving a '99 4-runner and the highlander is about the same size. Handling and driving was smooth and great and it just felt natural. Also the highlander has some small, thoughtful things like the shelf under the dash which is great for small things like sunglasses, parking passes, phone, etc. The 2nd row windows have built-in sun shades that pull up from the bottom of the window - nice surprise since we have a child and we threw away our old stick on window shade. Each row has their own vents on both sides. The 3rd row is actually able to recline.
Fully investigate the cargo space in the back whilst utilizing the 3rd row seat. Anything larger than a one child umbrella stroller will not fit. This is why we had to go with a minivan.
I agree. We are in the market for a larger vehicle but I do not want the third row. We prefer the cargo space.
In which case you should investigate the 2016 Kia Sorento. Bigger than most 5-passenger SUVs and can be had w/o the 3rd row. Kind of a small-midsize. But actually the 3rd row isn't bad on them either.

Thank you for the suggestion. The pics online look nice. I'll have to check one out in person.

Do you know what the are asking for a new model with mid level trim?
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FuyuKei
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Re: SUV advice

Post by FuyuKei »

If you're not buying for 2 more years I'd probably check back with reviews around that time. As it's been discussed, these days it's very viable to buy a new car and drive it into the ground vs buying used. Better safety features, more durability, longer warranties, etc.
-----
I've been shopping lately myself. We needed only 2 row seating, good for someone tall (6'3), ability to sit in back seat while front seat is pushed all the way back because of said person, and a big trunk for music/film gear. Good MPG was also important, so I started my search at fueleconomy.gov. I also wanted a white car, because I live in a very sunny area and this has an impact on fuel economy/how comfortable my car is after sitting outside.

Comparison of these 3 cars.
Top 3 in order
1.) Subaru Outback 2016: This is my personal choice. 4 Wheel Drive (Great for mud/snow), great safety ratings, makes great use of interior space, roof rails, infotainment. Pricier than the Mazda CX-5, but for good reason. Consistently good ratings on review sites. Good MPG. I chose the outback over the Forrester because it has slightly better reviews, but it's also spacier. It's great for my tall boyfriend and all the music/film equipment he carries. IMO on trim levels, get the Limited or just the base 2.5i model. The Premium trim level isn't worth the money. You might have to special order it, but at my dealership that wasn't extra, just takes time.

2.) Mazda CX-5 2016: Great safety ratings, Sporty, feels more like driving a car/jeep instead of a SUV. A good price on a car that looks like it will last a long time. Consistently good ratings on review sites. Good MPG. Unfortunately with the tall person in front, there wasn't an awful lot of room in the back seat. But it's livable, and this car is ~ $3k less. I'd consider it if you don't need the 4 wheel drive, and you aren't over 6 feet tall.

3.) 2015 Prius-V: This is the "wagon" version of the popular Prius. I'd only consider it if you do a lot of city driving, but I liked this car a lot primarily for the MPG. It's also very spacey, and great for short & tall people. Prius is the only hybrid I'd consider-- it's battery should last a long time without being replaced, compared to most hybrids. However, when you get to highway speeds it's very loud. There's an annoying whine and the brakes are clunky. That was a dealbreaker for me personally, though my boyfriend didn't care as much. Consistently good ratings on review sites. Ultimately we decided against it for the noise + we mostly do highway miles. If you drive all city miles you can make up the $3k hybrid price premium in about 4.5 years. (longer for highway miles, but it can still be worth it if you keep the car a long time)


Avoid:
Kia: Unless you buy a very recent one/new. Everyone says they're better now, but they used to be total crap.

Lexus RX: You mentioned this so I wanted to say, many people agreed this car isn't worth the extra money and doesn't really bring anything extra to the table over it's less pricey competitors. You're just paying for the "Lexus" name. It's not a "bad" car, it's just $3k more for no good reason.

Honda CR-V: The 2015 has earned a "beware of clunker" badge on CarComplaints. A lot of people are having an issue with really bad vibration. Honda is calling it "just the way the car is" and isn't issuing a recall, so I'd steer away from the 2015 model. However, if you can find a Honda CR-V 2006 used for a good price, and not too many miles that's a very solid car. There's a reason CRVs are popular...just not this year.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: SUV advice

Post by jabberwockOG »

Browser wrote:Everyone hits the samo samo brands: honda, toyota, subaru -- yawn..... In the meantime, the Korean brands are now beating them all in initial quality ratings by JD Power. Kia is second to Porsche! Hyundai is 4th. Toyota is 10th and Honda is 14th. Subaru is way down there somewhere near the bottom of the pack. They're just ahead of Fiat, Chrysler, and the Smartcar. These brands have been living off the fumes of their once and past reputations.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2 ... -study-iqs

I drive cars for a minimum of 10 years. For last 10 years we have had Lexus and Toyota cars which have been 100% bullet proof reliable, although for most of our lives wife and I have driven Honda and Acura cars. J.D Powers is certainly a excellent data point on initial quality. But I am way more concerned with long term quality and reliability on a car when it is 4-10 years old. In that realm the reliability and cost to maintain Porsche, Hyundai, Kia are not where I want to be. Maybe they are building them to be better long term cars but that has not been true to date.
Browser
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

I'm not among the fans of the styling of the Highlander, or for that matter any Toyota these days. Wish I liked that angry fish-mouth grille better and those swoops and creases in the bodywork. The car design department seems to be screwing up an otherwise good brand. So far, Honda has managed to stay relatively sane and the Korean styling looks pretty good. I read that Kia actually has some folks from Audi on board working on design. If you look close, the 2016 Kia Sorento has some Q5 design notes. To my eye, the Germans have the best looking SUVs on the market by a long way. To each his own, I guess.
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f4d
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Re: SUV advice

Post by f4d »

easye418 wrote:
Toons wrote:2015 CRV-EXL
Completely ,and I mean Completely Satisfied :happy
Wife isn't a fan of the CRV.

Are Hondas one of those things that it is just worth buying brand new and riding forever?
I bought a new 2004 Honda CRV. Retired so now only have 68,000 miles. Always garaged, looks new (old) and runs like new.
Browser
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

Honda CR-V: The 2015 has earned a "beware of clunker" badge on CarComplaints.
What exactly is the "beware of clunker" badge?

BTW, the vibration problem with the CRV has been laid at the engine. However, they went to a CVT transmission in 2015 and I'd suggest this may be the problem. FWIW, I'm shopping new vehicles without a CVT transmission which eliminates Nissan, Subaru, some Honda models like the CRV, etc. There's probably a reason that premium vehicles are still using gears and not rubber bands in the transmission.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.
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Toons
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Toons »

f4d wrote:
easye418 wrote:
Toons wrote:2015 CRV-EXL
Completely ,and I mean Completely Satisfied :happy
Wife isn't a fan of the CRV.

Are Hondas one of those things that it is just worth buying brand new and riding forever?
I bought a new 2004 Honda CRV. Retired so now only have 68,000 miles. Always garaged, looks new (old) and runs like new.
That 04 body style ages with grace,,,one of my favorites :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
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FuyuKei
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Re: SUV advice

Post by FuyuKei »

Browser wrote:
Honda CR-V: The 2015 has earned a "beware of clunker" badge on CarComplaints.
What exactly is the "beware of clunker" badge?

BTW, the vibration problem with the CRV has been laid at the engine. However, they went to a CVT transmission in 2015 and I'd suggest this may be the problem. FWIW, I'm shopping new vehicles without a CVT transmission which eliminates Nissan, Subaru, some Honda models like the CRV, etc. There's probably a reason that premium vehicles are still using gears and not rubber bands in the transmission.
It's part of their rating system. In addition to the poor rating, I'd like to point out the high number of transmission and engine issues reported there. Honda has even admitted to knowing of the vibration of the car, but they consider it a "characteristic" of the car, and not an "issue."
Our rating seals are assigned to vehicles mostly depending on the score (see below). The process isn't automatic — someone notices or nominates a certain vehicle or model generation, & then it goes through our manual review process.
Beware of the Clunker
Has significant defects but does not deserve the "Plague" rating: either the defects occur at high mileage, they don't cost a fortune to repair, or they aren't widespread.
Avoid Like The Plague
Has serious widespread defects that occur at relatively low mileage, cost a fortune, or may be dangerous.

Also, it's worth noting the Mazda CX-5 has a 6-speed engine, with almost the identical MPG of the Subaru Outback. When I drove it the handling is way more sporty, feels more like a car vs the Subaru Outback feeling like a wagon. Worth checking out if you don't need quite as much space as the Outback and the four wheel drive. Yet still same MPG as Subaru Outback. (Pretty much.)

There are advantages to both types of engines.
Browser
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

Oh, I see the seal now. Not good....
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killjoy2012
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Re: SUV advice

Post by killjoy2012 »

easye418 wrote:
killjoy2012 wrote:People need to stop living the 1980's.
Care to elaborate?
Toyota & Honda are no longer the only options for a quality buy & hold vehicle. In fact, they aren't what they used to be - yet are still managing to maintain that perception, especially with the older generations who lived through the late 1970's & '80s as car buyers/drivers.

The domestics make many vehicles that compete in terms of short & long term quality, safety, and most have better styling & functionality than the Japanese brands. But they're often overlooked and brushed aside based on name alone. Same could be said for Apple in the 1990's & 2000's.

The Koreans are the new kids on the block. They make a decent product at a really good price point, but their history is too short to judge many things.

If you were to take a look at how the automotive supply chain works, especially since 2000, if not since 2008, the differentiation between Brand A vs. B has become shades of gray since all manufacturers are increasingly/largely using the same parts from the same tier 1 & 2 auto suppliers in their vehicles. They're not 100% identical, but you'd probably be surprised how shared the content/supply base is across the various car makers.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by TradingPlaces »

I would put Hyundai ahead of Honda and Toyota.

For years Honda and Toyota have enjoyed a reliability status that IMO is not justified. They are as much subject to issues as other manufacturers.

Also, Honda and Toyota are more expensive due to the unjustified reliability rankings.

Furthermore, there are other manufacturers who do well, in particular Ford.

Of course, all of them make very pedestrian, unimaginative cars very well fit to suburban population.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by TradingPlaces »

Browser wrote:
Honda CR-V: The 2015 has earned a "beware of clunker" badge on CarComplaints.
What exactly is the "beware of clunker" badge?

BTW, the vibration problem with the CRV has been laid at the engine. However, they went to a CVT transmission in 2015 and I'd suggest this may be the problem. FWIW, I'm shopping new vehicles without a CVT transmission which eliminates Nissan, Subaru, some Honda models like the CRV, etc. There's probably a reason that premium vehicles are still using gears and not rubber bands in the transmission.
I agree, CRV is dead on arrival.

I think there is a massive lawsuit waiting to happen with CRV. We will probably find out in 2 years how bad the problem is.

I expect nothing less than Takanobu Ito to show up on US national TV, prime time, bow his head, and apologize. That is, after all, what they expect to happen when some foreign manufacturer screws up in the Japanese consumer market.

Honda, very fast, is turning into the Hyundai of the early 1990s.
TradingPlaces
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Re: SUV advice

Post by TradingPlaces »

I also think that the reliability of the Honda / Toyota mafia has been way overblown.

Take Civic, for example. It has been a poorly made car all along. That is, there has never been a Civic model, which has matched Accords reliability, primarily because of the poor parts used. And yet, people consider Civic to be similarly good car.

For a piece of junk, Civic is way overpriced.
Browser
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

Long time Honda owner - since 1986. Still love my 2002 CRV. But my faith has been shaken with the airbag issue and other serious problems with Honda and Acura vehicles that just don't seem Honda-like. Either they've slipped back or the pack has caught up. Never thought in a million years I'd be looking at the Koreans and at Ford and GM again (Fiat-Chrysler has always been crap).
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sunny_socal
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Re: SUV advice

Post by sunny_socal »

Browser wrote:Long time Honda owner - since 1986. Still love my 2002 CRV. But my faith has been shaken with the airbag issue and other serious problems with Honda and Acura vehicles that just don't seem Honda-like. Either they've slipped back or the pack has caught up. Never thought in a million years I'd be looking at the Koreans and at Ford and GM again (Fiat-Chrysler has always been crap).
What "airbag issue?" None of these guys make their own airbags - they come from a subcontractor. The "issue" then plagues a number of brands, reference:
http://www.safercar.gov/rs/takata/takatalist.html

In the end, it boils down to this:
- Do I like the way it looks?
- Is it within my budget? [for many, this is actually a non issue - they will justify the purchase one way or other]

Reliability actually takes a back seat to everything else. Otherwise no BMWs or Mercedes would ever get sold! :P (Speaking from first hand experience here....) All brands are reliable enough these days.
Nowizard
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Nowizard »

You will, of course, get different opinions. We purchased a Honda Odyssey when we had children, though a smaller SUV would work with one child. If you are planning more than one, smaller ones might get tight since you would have two carseats and other items such as either a two-seat stroller or two strollers, at least for a period of time. The Odyssey drives like a car, is reliable and uses regular gasoline. It also gets excellent mileage. Our children are grown now, but my wife still drives an Odyssey. Mileage is 25+ which pretty much means you can disregard claims of smaller vehicles getting better mileage. Resale value is strong, and people, quite literally, say they want to purchase ours when we sell. That may partially be because my wife takes good care of her automobiles, but speaks well for the Odyssey as well.
The Highlander is an excellent choice as well, but you will get similar or equal mileage with the Odyssey and the extra space that would be very helpful with a second child, something that can occur whether you are planning for that or not. :happy

Tim
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Re: SUV advice

Post by jared »

Nowizard wrote:You will, of course, get different opinions. We purchased a Honda Odyssey when we had children, though a smaller SUV would work with one child. If you are planning more than one, smaller ones might get tight since you would have two carseats and other items such as either a two-seat stroller or two strollers, at least for a period of time. The Odyssey drives like a car, is reliable and uses regular gasoline. It also gets excellent mileage. Our children are grown now, but my wife still drives an Odyssey. Mileage is 25+ which pretty much means you can disregard claims of smaller vehicles getting better mileage. Resale value is strong, and people, quite literally, say they want to purchase ours when we sell. That may partially be because my wife takes good care of her automobiles, but speaks well for the Odyssey as well.
The Highlander is an excellent choice as well, but you will get similar or equal mileage with the Odyssey and the extra space that would be very helpful with a second child, something that can occur whether you are planning for that or not. :happy

Tim
Family of 3 here. We just purchased a 2015 Honda Odyssey EX-L w/ RES and love it so far. My only regret is not making the purchase 2 years ago. My wife wanted nothing to do with a minivan at first, but I somehow talked her into looking at them and taking at test drive. She quickly realized how nice they were and how much more room we would have, even for our small family.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by ClaycordJCA »

If you have dogs with carriers and kids, I'd look at the minivans. A lot more cargo space than the SUVs and they generally get better mileage. We had two Honda Odysseys while raising our kids - those sliding doors were a dream when having to fiddle with car seats.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by peterinjapan »

May I suggest you look at the Mazda CX-5? We couldn't be happier with ours, it's just the right size for our (4-person) family when driving around to events or packing four suitcases for trips to the airport. If possible investigate the diesel option, which is fantastic.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

What "airbag issue?" None of these guys make their own airbags - they come from a subcontractor. The "issue" then plagues a number of brands, reference:
Are you suggesting the carmaker has no responsibility for parts that they didn't personally fabricate? I'm sure they'll be glad to hear that. I guess you weren't in the room when it was revealed Honda had been looking the other way for years while they were aware of an airbag problem. Just like they appear to be looking the other way on other issues affecting their vehicles. I love my CRV and have been a Honda fan for years and years, but just imagine people giving Kia or Hyundai a pass if one of their current vehicles had the vibration problem of the current CRV. I don't know if this is goodwill toward Honda or just a perceptual bias. We humans are pretty slow to shift our perceptual frame when reality moves on, and I'm concerned that might be the case now. I've been doing a LOT of investigation of autos over the last three years, and I've slowly been adjusting my frame of reference. At the outset I was strongly biased in favor of the Japanese brands, particularly Honda and Toyota. But as I've continued to look and dig, I'm not so sure. I think reality may have moved on, and I want to move on along with it.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by kenyan »

Interesting that the OP asked about mid- to full-size SUVs and got a bunch of advice about small CUVs, or minivans.

We did our search for a family-friendly car after our second was born, not before the first was born. Buying more car before you need it could just be additional, unnecessary expense (similar to buying a large house before you have a family). We ended up considering Subaru Forester/Outback, Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport, Ford Escape, and settled on the Outback. Santa Fe Sport is the only mid-size of those bunch; the rest are smaller (though the Outback was a bit larger than the rest).

Definitely consider Hyundais and Kias as well as the usual suspects. Minivans are the most practical, but with zero-to-one kids they're completely overkill. No real need for a minivan until you hit 3 kids, though for some that might just mean you have other kids/relatives to cart around. It's easy to get by with a sedan when you just have one kid, by the way.

If I were in the market for a mid-size SUV, I'd look at the Toyota Highlander, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport/GLS, Honda Pilot, Ford Edge/Explorer, and possibly a couple others. However, I don't have much experience with any of those other than the Highlander and Santa Fe Sport.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by sunny_socal »

Browser wrote: Are you suggesting the carmaker has no responsibility for parts that they didn't personally fabricate? I'm sure they'll be glad to hear that. I guess you weren't in the room when it was revealed Honda had been looking the other way for years while they were aware of an airbag problem. Just like they appear to be looking the other way on other issues affecting their vehicles.
I'm not suggesting that. Indeed my personal experience has been the opposite - Honda takes care of their customers. We received an airbag recall notice in the mail. It was fixed on their dime (2hrs labor) and my wife got a free rental car for the entire day. :beer What more could they have done?
I love my CRV and have been a Honda fan for years and years, but just imagine people giving Kia or Hyundai a pass if one of their current vehicles had the vibration problem of the current CRV. I don't know if this is goodwill toward Honda or just a perceptual bias. We humans are pretty slow to shift our perceptual frame when reality moves on, and I'm concerned that might be the case now. I've been doing a LOT of investigation of autos over the last three years, and I've slowly been adjusting my frame of reference. At the outset I was strongly biased in favor of the Japanese brands, particularly Honda and Toyota. But as I've continued to look and dig, I'm not so sure. I think reality may have moved on, and I want to move on along with it.
I'm fully aware of certain problems with Honda/Toyota as well:
- Honda V6 oil sludge problems
- Toyota Tundra AIP problems
- Toyota Tundra 4x4 differential problems

The last of those three has affected me personally since I have a Tundra. Toyota still does not have a permanent solution in their production line, instead it is merely covered under their drivetrain warranty and a related TSB. If you're one of the unlucky owners struck by the bad differential outside the warranty it's thousands of $$. I haven't had the AIP issue, but they don't have a solution for the either - they just extended their warranty to 150k miles to help soften the blow. But there the vehicle shuts down and must be towed to a dealer if a certain emissions control element fails :shock: Conclusion: I would never recommend a Tundra to anyone shopping for a pickup truck.

Indeed it takes careful research these days. Every manufacturer has problems.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

kenyan wrote:Interesting that the OP asked about mid- to full-size SUVs and got a bunch of advice about small CUVs, or minivans.

We did our search for a family-friendly car after our second was born, not before the first was born. Buying more car before you need it could just be additional, unnecessary expense (similar to buying a large house before you have a family). We ended up considering Subaru Forester/Outback, Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport, Ford Escape, and settled on the Outback. Santa Fe Sport is the only mid-size of those bunch; the rest are smaller (though the Outback was a bit larger than the rest).

Definitely consider Hyundais and Kias as well as the usual suspects. Minivans are the most practical, but with zero-to-one kids they're completely overkill. No real need for a minivan until you hit 3 kids, though for some that might just mean you have other kids/relatives to cart around. It's easy to get by with a sedan when you just have one kid, by the way.

If I were in the market for a mid-size SUV, I'd look at the Toyota Highlander, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport/GLS, Honda Pilot, Ford Edge/Explorer, and possibly a couple others. However, I don't have much experience with any of those other than the Highlander and Santa Fe Sport.
Thanks....

The good news is that there are tons of options out there for consumers like myself. The bad news is there is too many!!! :D I really wouldn't mind scooping up a Used top trim to save some buck, so I did a bit of research.

Mazda CX 5, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0t, Nissan Pathfinder, and Kia Sorento all have incredible discounts on slightly used cars.

The Kia Sorento Limited has a ridiculous drop in value. I see 2015 you can build for $41k fully loaded. You can get fully loaded 8k miles for $34k. Sounds like a great bargain. Bit nervous that the price drops that much. Reliability issue maybe?

The Mazda and Santa Fe were the cheapest used, both around $9k off when you throw on 2 years and under 30k miles. Mazda crushes the Santa Fe in terms of MPG, but Santa Fe Sport obviously has the engine. $25k for either isn't shabby. I am little nervous the CX-5 will be underpowered and small. I remember test driving a Mazda 3 back in the day and I felt crushed.

The newest member on this list is the Nissan Pathfinder. Great discount on used 25k miles, 2 year old top trim. Larger of the bunch. TVs in the headrest which is a plus (I assume) for keeping children occupied.

The Hondas and Toyotas are extremely pricey, almost too pricey.

This would probably round out my test drive list sometime in early 2017.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

I'm not suggesting that. Indeed my personal experience has been the opposite - Honda takes care of their customers. We received an airbag recall notice in the mail. It was fixed on their dime (2hrs labor) and my wife got a free rental car for the entire day. :beer What more could they have done?
Well, they finally got around to recalling my CRV airbag as well last March. But what they actually could have done is to do something about it several years ago when the exploding airbag problem started being reported. However, they let owners drive around with these things in their cars until they got dragged kicking and screaming to issue recalls. I'm just grateful my airbag didn't explode and injure me or a passenger. Honda was the largest user of Takata airbags. The NY Times reported on the hush-up by Honda and Takata relating to the defective airbags:
The danger of exploding air bags was not disclosed for years after the first reported incident in 2004, despite red flags — including three additional ruptures reported to Honda in 2007, according to interviews, regulatory filings and court records.

The delays by both Honda and Takata in alerting the public about the defect — and later in Takata’s acknowledging it extended beyond a small group of Honda vehicles — meant other automakers like BMW, Toyota and Nissan were not aware of possible defects in their own vehicles for years, putting off their recalls.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/busin ... .html?_r=0

If this is what "taking care of your customers" entails, then I'm afraid we've lost our way.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by BigFoot48 »

We have a 2015 Toyota Highlander Limited on order. We had decided to buy another minivan after owning a 2007 Odyssey, and test drove the Honda, Kia and Toyota, and were leaning toward the Toyota. A chance comment by the salesman that I could get the advanced safety features I liked for about $5k less in the Highlander over the Sienna, lead us to check SUVs out.

We retiree-no kids like a lot of room for traveling and while not as much as a minivan the SUV certainly has a lot. We test drove the 2016 Pilot and the 2015 Highlander, and based on those many drives, reading reviews, viewing every YouTube review, the outstanding resale value, and Consumer Reports giving it their mid-sized SUV choice in their April auto issue, lead us to choose it. Our first Toyota. (I also like the 5,000# towing capacity should we decide to do RVing again. The Ody was 3,500#.)

The advanced safety features on this model are: Pre-Collision System (PCS) with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), Lane Departure Alert (LDA), Blind Spot Monitor () with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert (RCTA) and Rear parking assist sonar. I think all of these will assist aging-us in staying safe while driving and negotiating parking lots.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

BigFoot48 wrote:We have a 2015 Toyota Highlander Limited on order. We had decided to buy another minivan after owning a 2007 Odyssey, and test drove the Honda, Kia and Toyota, and were leaning toward the Toyota. A chance comment by the salesman that I could get the advanced safety features I liked for about $5k less in the Highlander over the Sienna, lead us to check SUVs out.

We retiree-no kids like a lot of room for traveling and while not as much as a minivan the SUV certainly has a lot. We test drove the 2016 Pilot and the 2015 Highlander, and based on those many drives, reading reviews, viewing every YouTube review, the outstanding resale value, and Consumer Reports giving it their mid-sized SUV choice in their April auto issue, lead us to choose it. Our first Toyota. (I also like the 5,000# towing capacity should we decide to do RVing again. The Ody was 3,500#.)

The advanced safety features on this model are: Pre-Collision System (PCS) with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), Lane Departure Alert (LDA), Blind Spot Monitor () with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert (RCTA) and Rear parking assist sonar. I think all of these will assist aging-us in staying safe while driving and negotiating parking lots.
Interesting... Highlander still on the short list. Probably worth the cheddar.

Edit: after reading rave reviews, it is definitely on top of the short list. Wonder if this one is worth shelling out $50k for the Hybrid and driving it for the next 10+ years.
Last edited by easye418 on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by f4d »

Browser's comment about "taking care of customers" and other issues is very insightful. There is an even older maxim that hit me between the eyes when I bought the 1971 Motor Trend Car of the Year, for economy going to and from work. That is "Caveat Emptor", let the buyer beware. This is what Wikipedia says about that choice:

The Vega received praise and awards at its introduction, including 1971 Motor Trend Car of the Year. Subsequently the car became widely known for a range of problems related to its engineering, reliability, safety, propensity to rust, and engine durability. Despite a series of recalls and design upgrades, the Vega's problems tarnished both its own as well as General Motors' reputation. Production ended with the 1977 model year. The name is derived from Vega, the brightest star in the constellation Lyra.

Admittedly, vehicle quality has improved significantly since then. I guess the best any of us can do is as much research and due diligence as possible when making a major purchase. I admit I have no brand loyalty, and was since happy with my Nissan 240SX and Honda CRV (even with air bag replacement). This discussion has been very useful to me. :happy
Last edited by f4d on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Browser »

I guess the best any of us can do is as much research and due diligence as possible when making a major purchase. I admit I have no brand loyalty, and was since happy with my Nissan 240SX and Honda CRV (even with air bag replacement). This discussion has been very useful to me. :happy
I guess that's my major takeaway -- brand loyalty is likely to be unrewarded going forward, even though it might have not always been so. When my 1986 Accord was ready for replacement, I had no hesitation whatsoever in buying another Honda. Glanced sideways at Toyota but never a serious affair. Took me about 5 minutes to buy my 2002 CRV. Now I'm just trying to be objective and get the old mantras out of my head as I shop for a new vehicle. Hard to do for old diehards...
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Re: SUV advice

Post by dbr »

BigFoot48 wrote: The advanced safety features on this model are: Pre-Collision System (PCS) with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), Lane Departure Alert (LDA), Blind Spot Monitor () with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert (RCTA) and Rear parking assist sonar. I think all of these will assist aging-us in staying safe while driving and negotiating parking lots.
I have the impression advanced safety features are so common in design that they are not a distinguishing factor in selecting make and model any more. How they are packaged and paid for might be a factor. On the other hand the method to display and operate infotainment and climate controls may yet be a distinguishing factor.

I find reliability projection to be sufficiently uncertain and a making of small distinctions to be of questionable use.

There are certainly various idiosyncratic personal preferences among vehicles that count.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by kenyan »

easye418 wrote:
Mazda CX 5, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0t, Nissan Pathfinder, and Kia Sorento all have incredible discounts on slightly used cars.

The Kia Sorento Limited has a ridiculous drop in value. I see 2015 you can build for $41k fully loaded. You can get fully loaded 8k miles for $34k. Sounds like a great bargain. Bit nervous that the price drops that much. Reliability issue maybe?

The Mazda and Santa Fe were the cheapest used, both around $9k off when you throw on 2 years and under 30k miles. Mazda crushes the Santa Fe in terms of MPG, but Santa Fe Sport obviously has the engine. $25k for either isn't shabby. I am little nervous the CX-5 will be underpowered and small. I remember test driving a Mazda 3 back in the day and I felt crushed.
The Mazda does feel much more car-like in handling than the rest of the list I posted, with the Santa Fe Sport turbo the most truck-like (also the biggest). However, if you want to get off the line, the Mazda does indeed get left in the dust. The CX-5 is definitely pretty small, as well. You'd have to evaluate if it is too small for your needs. Kias and Hyundais definitely are worth considering used, since they generally don't hold their value like the Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

kenyan wrote:
easye418 wrote:
Mazda CX 5, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0t, Nissan Pathfinder, and Kia Sorento all have incredible discounts on slightly used cars.

The Kia Sorento Limited has a ridiculous drop in value. I see 2015 you can build for $41k fully loaded. You can get fully loaded 8k miles for $34k. Sounds like a great bargain. Bit nervous that the price drops that much. Reliability issue maybe?

The Mazda and Santa Fe were the cheapest used, both around $9k off when you throw on 2 years and under 30k miles. Mazda crushes the Santa Fe in terms of MPG, but Santa Fe Sport obviously has the engine. $25k for either isn't shabby. I am little nervous the CX-5 will be underpowered and small. I remember test driving a Mazda 3 back in the day and I felt crushed.
The Mazda does feel much more car-like in handling than the rest of the list I posted, with the Santa Fe Sport turbo the most truck-like (also the biggest). However, if you want to get off the line, the Mazda does indeed get left in the dust. The CX-5 is definitely pretty small, as well. You'd have to evaluate if it is too small for your needs. Kias and Hyundais definitely are worth considering used, since they generally don't hold their value like the Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus.
Also, Acura RDX seems to be within reach as well. Looks like highly rated.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by 2tall4economy »

I've got two kids and an Equinox (one of the top nameplates for initial quality says I'd power) but I bought it because it has a semi ballsy engine good styling and plenty of space, unlike some others mentioned here.

Totally agree with the guy above. Quality if basically all equal now. The Japanese brands are just as bad as the Germans and Americans are good. Buy it for the other reasons (design, engineering) because you almost can't get bad quality these days.
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easye418
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Re: SUV advice

Post by easye418 »

2tall4economy wrote:I've got two kids and an Equinox (one of the top nameplates for initial quality says I'd power) but I bought it because it has a semi ballsy engine good styling and plenty of space, unlike some others mentioned here.

Totally agree with the guy above. Quality if basically all equal now. The Japanese brands are just as bad as the Germans and Americans are good. Buy it for the other reasons (design, engineering) because you almost can't get bad quality these days.
I was actually just thinking about American made.

Can anyone recommend good American SUVs to look at? Since I assume American made cars do not hold their value as well as the Foreign cars, I wouldn't mind risking it if I can save a fortune.

Hopefully no one says Dodge/Chrysler... Chrysler Sebring has absolutely shattered any hopes in ever getting a Chrysler or anything associated with Chrysler.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by theunknowntech »

easye418 wrote:
I was actually just thinking about American made.

Can anyone recommend good American SUVs to look at? Since I assume American made cars do not hold their value as well as the Foreign cars, I wouldn't mind risking it if I can save a fortune.

Hopefully no one says Dodge/Chrysler... Chrysler Sebring has absolutely shattered any hopes in ever getting a Chrysler or anything associated with Chrysler.
You're talking about SUV's, but you should consider a pickup. The Chevy Silverado 1500 crewcab is the only game in town, for your purposes.

I'm from Texas, and we're like that. You can make money with a truck, so they really hold their value, but you can also haul stuff that you didn't think of.

IOW, start wearing your underwear OUTSIDE of your pants, like a real American.
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TxAg
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Re: SUV advice

Post by TxAg »

theunknowntech wrote:
easye418 wrote:
I was actually just thinking about American made.

Can anyone recommend good American SUVs to look at? Since I assume American made cars do not hold their value as well as the Foreign cars, I wouldn't mind risking it if I can save a fortune.

Hopefully no one says Dodge/Chrysler... Chrysler Sebring has absolutely shattered any hopes in ever getting a Chrysler or anything associated with Chrysler.
You're talking about SUV's, but you should consider a pickup. The Chevy Silverado 1500 crewcab is the only game in town, for your purposes.

I'm from Texas, and we're like that. You can make money with a truck, so they really hold their value, but you can also haul stuff that you didn't think of.

IOW, start wearing your underwear OUTSIDE of your pants, like a real American.
There's merit here. The newer style crew cab trucks have LOTS of interior room and lots of creature comforts inside. With a tonneau cover, you can haul a lot of strollers/suitcases/gear/etc. Plus you can take the cover off and fit furniture, landscaping supplies...you get the idea.

We've discussed going this route.
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Re: SUV advice

Post by Miriam2 »

easye418 wrote:If our child comes out in 2017, would it be worth searching for an used 2015 top trim or just buying brand new since Toyotas hold their value so well?
easye418 -
You are getting brainwashed with this car SUV stuff.
Your child will not "come out" in 2017 - car models "come out" - children "are born" (although I suppose one could say they come out . . . :shock:
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Re: SUV advice

Post by joebh »

When the time comes, and not before, you owe it to yourself to read Consumer Reports, choose a handful of models that seem to meet your needs, test-drive them all, and then choose.

That's what I did. I ended up with a Subaru Forester.

My wife had an older Forester which I thought was just okay. But they redesigned it and made it a bit bigger, and a bit more what I wanted for the model year I eventually purchased. I wouldn't have bought it if it hadn't been remodeled.

I've been very happy with my car. I has the form factor and features that work for me. My wife and grandchildren seem to enjoy it as well.
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