How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
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How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Now that it is spring, I am seeing a lot of bicyclists on my suburban town's roads. Many of the roads are one-lane and quite narrow, without any real usable shoulder. When I get stuck behind a biker on one of these roads, I am often not quite sure what I should do. Unless the biker specifically waves me past, I don't think it's safe to just drive around them. The only way to do it would be to pull way over to the left crossing the road's double yellow lines, which I think would be a violation.
So, in these circumstances, is the biker to be treated the same as another car? On slow speed roads, it's not that much of a problem. However, when the speed limit is 45 mph and the biker is going 15 mph, I've noticed that other drivers seem to get somewhat impatient. Are bicyclists allowed to ride significantly below the speed limit of a road?
I am also a biker myself and I greatly respect other bikers on the road. I just want to make sure I am always taking the safest actions. Thanks
So, in these circumstances, is the biker to be treated the same as another car? On slow speed roads, it's not that much of a problem. However, when the speed limit is 45 mph and the biker is going 15 mph, I've noticed that other drivers seem to get somewhat impatient. Are bicyclists allowed to ride significantly below the speed limit of a road?
I am also a biker myself and I greatly respect other bikers on the road. I just want to make sure I am always taking the safest actions. Thanks
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
So it is a two lane road. One can cross the center line to go around an object or every parked/stalled car would close the road.mr_scaramanga wrote:The only way to do it would be to pull way over to the left crossing the road's double yellow lines, which I think would be a violation.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
My preference when I am riding is to be safely passed by cars. Going over the yellow line to pass a bicycle is unlikely to get you a ticket unless there is a No Passing sign on the road and even then I find it hard to believe that a cop exists that would care what a driver does to pass a bicyclist.
The worst is when pissed off drivers (who are having to wait behind a courteous driver) speed pass me trying to intimidate me by how close/fast they can get. Note that in France and Northern Italy going slow behind a bicycle until it is safe to pass is the norm.
I don't like cars that unnecessarily go slow behind me, when it is clearly safe to pass. I get concerned that something unpleasant may be in store for me, which is why I like cars to get around as soon and safely as possible.
The worst is when pissed off drivers (who are having to wait behind a courteous driver) speed pass me trying to intimidate me by how close/fast they can get. Note that in France and Northern Italy going slow behind a bicycle until it is safe to pass is the norm.
I don't like cars that unnecessarily go slow behind me, when it is clearly safe to pass. I get concerned that something unpleasant may be in store for me, which is why I like cars to get around as soon and safely as possible.
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Sounds like two lanes, one lane in each direction. I'd check state law. But regardless of legalities, the health, life and safety of the bicyclist is paramount in this situation. Maybe honk your car's horn and see if you get a response from the bicycle rider. Proceed with caution.Uncle Pennybags wrote:So it is a two lane road. One can cross the center line to go around an object or every parked/stalled car would close the road.mr_scaramanga wrote:The only way to do it would be to pull way over to the left crossing the road's double yellow lines, which I think would be a violation.
Maintain perspective. A few moments of caution is surely better than dealing with police, courts and juries if someone suffers injury or worse.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
As a cyclist, please pass me as soon as it's safe, double yellow or not. Nothing I hate more than timid drivers, who I feel create a safety concern for all involved.
The suggestion to honk - don't unless it's a light tap from several hundred feet behind. A close proximity honk from behind can be startling, unsettling a rider and making a well intentioned situation bad. Trust me, we can hear cars coming, even without a horn. The wind buffet and tires against the road create enough sound for a warning.
The suggestion to honk - don't unless it's a light tap from several hundred feet behind. A close proximity honk from behind can be startling, unsettling a rider and making a well intentioned situation bad. Trust me, we can hear cars coming, even without a horn. The wind buffet and tires against the road create enough sound for a warning.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I cross the centerline to cross them all the time as long as I can see if any traffic is coming the opposite way, isn't that what everyone does? I can't imagine someone driving 10mph behind a bike for miles at a time, unless traffic is solid coming the other way, or the road has a lot of hills and you can't see what's coming.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I agree pass when it is safe to do so. It is no different than being behind someone walking or running. You would not follow them forever because they are going too slow.
When you are cycling you can hear the car behind you and you want them to pass once it is safe.
When you are cycling you can hear the car behind you and you want them to pass once it is safe.
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Depends on what kind of center line. If it's dotted yellow, I pass when it is safe. If it's a double-solid line, patience is key because those double-solids are often at blind turns with no visibility of oncoming traffic.
I also always slowdown into a turnout when there's a faster vehicle (usually the super-bikes) behind me.
I also always slowdown into a turnout when there's a faster vehicle (usually the super-bikes) behind me.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Correct. The double yellow lines in the center are for passing another car. Crossing the line for other reasons -- pulling into a driveway, passing a breakdown, bicycle, or other obstruction is okay.Uncle Pennybags wrote:So it is a two lane road. One can cross the center line to go around an object or every parked/stalled car would close the road.mr_scaramanga wrote:The only way to do it would be to pull way over to the left crossing the road's double yellow lines, which I think would be a violation.
In Maine (and possibly other states) there's a 3-foot law -- a car must be at least 3 feet from a bicycle when it passes.
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speak less than thou knowest" -- The Fool in King Lear
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I agree on all counts.tigermilk wrote:As a cyclist, please pass me as soon as it's safe, double yellow or not. Nothing I hate more than timid drivers, who I feel create a safety concern for all involved.
The suggestion to honk - don't unless it's a light tap from several hundred feet behind. A close proximity honk from behind can be startling, unsettling a rider and making a well intentioned situation bad. Trust me, we can hear cars coming, even without a horn. The wind buffet and tires against the road create enough sound for a warning.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Check your state driver's manual, which should include passing bicyclists, or your city's laws. Also, there are several websites on the subject.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
My boating safety course taught me something that directly transfers to this situation. Above all else, do whatever is necessary to avoid a collision even if that means breaking another law.
Wait until it is safe to pass. Don't go into oncoming traffic but go ahead and cross the line if it is clear to do so.
Do NOT blow the horn. You can easily startle the cyclist.
Overall, remember that the cyclist has the right of way over you in a car. If something goes wrong, its going to be your fault.
If you can't deal with cyclists, stay off their roads.
Wait until it is safe to pass. Don't go into oncoming traffic but go ahead and cross the line if it is clear to do so.
Do NOT blow the horn. You can easily startle the cyclist.
Overall, remember that the cyclist has the right of way over you in a car. If something goes wrong, its going to be your fault.
If you can't deal with cyclists, stay off their roads.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
The new law in California as of this year is to always give bicyclists 3 feet of room which seems reasonable enough.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
The double line is there because there is insufficient visibility to pass a car. Bicycles are usually a fair bit slower than cars. You need less visibility to pass. If in my judgement there is enough visibility I would pass.
I don't carry points on my license and don't have problems with explaining my choice to a policeman. A driver is expected to use common sense.
The 3 foot rule is common and makes also makes sense.
I don't carry points on my license and don't have problems with explaining my choice to a policeman. A driver is expected to use common sense.
The 3 foot rule is common and makes also makes sense.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
As a sometimes cyclist, the threat is rarely a car that sees me and is paying attention (even if they aren't happy). The threat now is the driver with a cell phone in hand. As a result, I have virtually stopped riding on roads that have much traffic. Even roads with wide shoulders/bike lanes are no longer safe. When I am on a narrow back road and a car comes up behind and cannot go around due to limited visibility I try to find a place I can pull over and let them go by. Sometimes takes a while in our area -- poison ivy seems to like rural roadsides.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
And even if it is a multi-lane road, I practice and have taught my children to get in the other lane to pass. It does irk me when a car has a spare lane to easily move into when passing and does not do so.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
What most people have said it correct - wait patiently until there is room to pass and then pass, leaving plenty of room for the cyclist. The worst thing to do is to try and "squeeze" past the cyclist.
Also remember to not dart ahead of the cyclist only to slow way down to turn right. That's a big hazard.
And in response, cyclists should follow the rules of the road. Ride on the correct side of the street, do not ride on sidewalks, and obey all traffic laws and signs.
To the OP: Do you seriously wait for miles and miles going 15 MPH behind a cyclist on a double yellow lined two lane road? I find that very hard to believe - if so, you're very committed to those lines
Also remember to not dart ahead of the cyclist only to slow way down to turn right. That's a big hazard.
And in response, cyclists should follow the rules of the road. Ride on the correct side of the street, do not ride on sidewalks, and obey all traffic laws and signs.
To the OP: Do you seriously wait for miles and miles going 15 MPH behind a cyclist on a double yellow lined two lane road? I find that very hard to believe - if so, you're very committed to those lines
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Well, I can tell you, as a cyclist...yes they do.BuckyBadger wrote:
To the OP: Do you seriously wait for miles and miles going 15 MPH behind a cyclist on a double yellow lined two lane road? I find that very hard to believe - if so, you're very committed to those lines
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
When I am referring to one-lane roads, I am talking about two-way roads with one-lane in each direction. I do cross over the double yellow lines to pass bikers. It's just that it doesn't feel right and I always think I am breaking traffic laws when doing so.BuckyBadger wrote:What most people have said it correct - wait patiently until there is room to pass and then pass, leaving plenty of room for the cyclist. The worst thing to do is to try and "squeeze" past the cyclist.
Also remember to not dart ahead of the cyclist only to slow way down to turn right. That's a big hazard.
And in response, cyclists should follow the rules of the road. Ride on the correct side of the street, do not ride on sidewalks, and obey all traffic laws and signs.
To the OP: Do you seriously wait for miles and miles going 15 MPH behind a cyclist on a double yellow lined two lane road? I find that very hard to believe - if so, you're very committed to those lines
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I was a avid cyclist for a number of years - until an auto vs bike accident made it seem less appealing - but I was lucky to be living in cities with MILES and MILES of spectacular bike path. Even as much as I rode I was never comfortable on these sorts of roads described by the OP. I'm impressed with those cyclists who brave them.cricket49 wrote:Well, I can tell you, as a cyclist...yes they do.BuckyBadger wrote:
To the OP: Do you seriously wait for miles and miles going 15 MPH behind a cyclist on a double yellow lined two lane road? I find that very hard to believe - if so, you're very committed to those lines
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Our city is behind the times and have no bike paths. It is actually safer to cycle in the country on two lane roads.BuckyBadger wrote:I was a avid cyclist for a number of years - until an auto vs bike accident made it seem less appealing - but I was lucky to be living in cities with MILES and MILES of spectacular bike path. Even as much as I rode I was never comfortable on these sorts of roads described by the OP. I'm impressed with those cyclists who brave them.cricket49 wrote:Well, I can tell you, as a cyclist...yes they do.BuckyBadger wrote:
To the OP: Do you seriously wait for miles and miles going 15 MPH behind a cyclist on a double yellow lined two lane road? I find that very hard to believe - if so, you're very committed to those lines
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Would it be too much to ask that bicyclists delaying a parade of cars move over and let them pass? Bicyclists often seem to be an angry, entitled group and passive aggressive lane blocking doesnt help relations between the conveyance classes.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I've always felt that cars should come with two different horns. One regular horn that means "HEY! LOOK OUT!", and another, quieter/gentler horn that's the equivalent of a polite "ahem".Jack FFR1846 wrote: Do NOT blow the horn. You can easily startle the cyclist.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Yes, it would be too much to ask.eucalyptus wrote:Would it be too much to ask that bicyclists delaying a parade of cars move over and let them pass? Bicyclists often seem to be an angry, entitled group and passive aggressive lane blocking doesnt help relations between the conveyance classes.
Cyclists are entitled to use the road. It's safer to ride where they do (to the right of the lane, NOT in the shoulder, unless the shoulder is a bike path). It makes no sense to ask a cyclist to move over dozens of times an hour;.
I agree that cyclists with bad manners don't help things, but neither do drivers with bad manners, and there are plenty of well-mannered and rule following people from both "conveyance classes."
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Tap the horn before you get too close ,with a light wind of 5-15 and with a speed of 10-25+ mph ,you cannot hear cars at times behind you with wind noise,add in a hybrid car and old ears sometimes not at all.I wave on vehicles,indicate road hazards,and keep a eye out for cars behind at a distance so if need be sprint past bad locations,in addition to just stopping if there is a back up.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
As a semi-regular bicyclist to work I appreciate the answers given here. You guys are not issues for me. Thanks!
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Wait!As a cyclist, please pass me as soon as it's safe, double yellow or not.
While it's probably a good idea to pass the cyclist with a wide berth as soon as you can safely do so, double yellow lines often mark areas where it is NOT safe to pass, perhaps due to visibility or blind entrances. Unless you know the road very well, assuming that a double yellow line can be ignored could be very hazardous.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
"Yes, it would be too much to ask.
Cyclists are entitled to use the road. It's safer to ride where they do (to the right of the lane, NOT in the shoulder, unless the shoulder is a bike path). It makes no sense to ask a cyclist to move over dozens of times an hour;."
Where we used to live, off a two lane road in a suburb, weekend bicyclists, usually dressed for the Tour de France and often fancying themselves part of a peloton, would block entire lanes for miles. They would sometimes gesture for cars to remain behind them. My response depended solely on the car I happened to be driving; in a sportscar, I'd pull out and accelerate past them. This seeming violation of their ownership of "their roads" sometimes infuriated them.
Thankfully, we do not have this problem near our current home.
PS - If I am holding up traffic, I pull over. Common courtesy.
Cyclists are entitled to use the road. It's safer to ride where they do (to the right of the lane, NOT in the shoulder, unless the shoulder is a bike path). It makes no sense to ask a cyclist to move over dozens of times an hour;."
Where we used to live, off a two lane road in a suburb, weekend bicyclists, usually dressed for the Tour de France and often fancying themselves part of a peloton, would block entire lanes for miles. They would sometimes gesture for cars to remain behind them. My response depended solely on the car I happened to be driving; in a sportscar, I'd pull out and accelerate past them. This seeming violation of their ownership of "their roads" sometimes infuriated them.
Thankfully, we do not have this problem near our current home.
PS - If I am holding up traffic, I pull over. Common courtesy.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I have a mountain bike mirror on my handle bars since I am blind in one eye. I can see cars coming up behind me, how fast they are approaching and if a line is forming. As a courteous cyclist, I cycle close to the shoulder and pull over if possible when a line is forming.Kiter wrote:Tap the horn before you get too close ,with a light wind of 5-15 and with a speed of 10-25+ mph ,you cannot hear cars at times behind you with wind noise,add in a hybrid car and old ears sometimes not at all.I wave on vehicles,indicate road hazards,and keep a eye out for cars behind at a distance so if need be sprint past bad locations,in addition to just stopping if there is a back up.
I would much rather a person drive slowly behind me until they feel it is safe to pass than have an agitated, angry person behind me. These are the people who are dangerous when they pass. This is why I never cycle while people are going or coming from work (no bike paths).
I see things this way. Are you a courteous driver? Would you treat a runner the same way? What about an old person walking or a child?
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
i find it is the car drivers who think they "own" the roads.eucalyptus wrote:This seeming violation of their ownership of "their roads" sometimes infuriated them.
Last edited by Raybo on Wed May 20, 2015 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Like it or not, cyclists are legally entitled to the road. Many cyclists will ride in the center of a lane specifically to discourage unsafe (meaning dangerous to them) passing.
If you can't pass them safely, you need to wait until you can - especially when we're talking about crossing a double yellow.
These cyclists have the right to the lane. If they are rude and disrespectful you can be annoyed, but you can't take that right away from them. It's certainly not worth it to risk their lives.
I think jaywalkers are jerks, but I'm not going to accelerate into them and hit them just to assert my right of way.
You can't expect cyclists to pull over for every car that wants to pass them. It simply doesn't work that way.
(As far as who owns the roads, I've usually lived in places where I paid a fee to register my bike. Those fees went toward road maintenance, so the cyclists owned those roads, too.)
If you can't pass them safely, you need to wait until you can - especially when we're talking about crossing a double yellow.
These cyclists have the right to the lane. If they are rude and disrespectful you can be annoyed, but you can't take that right away from them. It's certainly not worth it to risk their lives.
I think jaywalkers are jerks, but I'm not going to accelerate into them and hit them just to assert my right of way.
You can't expect cyclists to pull over for every car that wants to pass them. It simply doesn't work that way.
(As far as who owns the roads, I've usually lived in places where I paid a fee to register my bike. Those fees went toward road maintenance, so the cyclists owned those roads, too.)
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Until bicycle riders and motor vehicle drivers solve these issues for all time, personal injury lawyers will prosper.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
x3jhfenton wrote:I agree on all counts.tigermilk wrote:As a cyclist, please pass me as soon as it's safe, double yellow or not. Nothing I hate more than timid drivers, who I feel create a safety concern for all involved.
The suggestion to honk - don't unless it's a light tap from several hundred feet behind. A close proximity honk from behind can be startling, unsettling a rider and making a well intentioned situation bad. Trust me, we can hear cars coming, even without a horn. The wind buffet and tires against the road create enough sound for a warning.
Honking is a bad idea. You know how if you look to one side while driving you tend to turn the car that way? Same with a bike. Now imagine a startled biker doing that. They will turn their head to look at you and most likely steer into the car. Biker knows your coming, now your just startling them.
Just to add, just like rude and bad drivers, there are also rude and bad cyclists. Most are good, just the bad apples stick out. I knew a rider who rode in the middle of the lane because he "legally had a right to". I said law of physics and Darwinism overrules that argument.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
The difference between a rude bicyclist and a rude driver is:
The rude behavior of a driver can kill a bicyclist.
while
The rude behavior of a bicyclist can not kill a driver.
The rude behavior of a driver can kill a bicyclist.
while
The rude behavior of a bicyclist can not kill a driver.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I was pleased and impressed that this thread went on as long as it did without degenerating into "bikes suck!" -- "cars suck!"Raybo wrote:i find it is the car drivers who think they "own" the roads.eucalyptus wrote:This seeming violation of their ownership of "their roads" sometimes infuriated them.
While I am firmly in the "cars suck!" camp, I think this thread is much more helpful as a practical discussion of how motorists can react to cyclists on narrow roads.
For my part, when cycling I appreciate it when cars wait behind me for a safe place to pass, though it is sometimes stressful. I agree with those who have said that passing a bike may be possible in places where passing a car would be unsafe. Bikes are both narrower and slower. I think the double yellow line usually reflects places where it is unsafe to pass a car. I would hope, however, that a driver would be very careful in passing a bike in such areas.
I also agree that a driver should use his or her horn sparingly if at all where bikes are involved. It can be extremely startling.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
That last point is a tough one. I usually ride in the middle of a lane on a busy multi-lane road without a bike lane or safe shoulder, because if I don't, cars will try to squeeze between me and the other lane of traffic. Not to mention the dangers from doors of parked cars. But, anytime there is a shoulder or a safe opportunity, even temporary, to get over and let cars past, I will.Andyrunner wrote: Just to add, just like rude and bad drivers, there are also rude and bad cyclists. Most are good, just the bad apples stick out. I knew a rider who rode in the middle of the lane because he "legally had a right to". I said law of physics and Darwinism overrules that argument.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
In my state the law goes both ways - a cyclist has the legal right to ride in a lane and in many places there are signs reminding drivers that cyclists can take up the whole lane, usually multi-lane roads where you can pass safely. However, at the same time, cyclists are not allowed to impede traffic - riding two or more abreast isn't allowed and a cyclist should pull to the right of the lane to let cars pass if it's possible to do so. There is also a requirement to give sufficient room when passing a cyclist - in my state it's not specified.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/transporta ... lists.aspx
Of course, nobody will be perfect - some cyclists will ride 2 abreast and some drivers will buzz cyclists. Keep in mind that the worst case scenario for the driver is that the cyclist gets hurt and the driver will be facing stressful legal proceedings. And the worst case for the cyclist is death. So no matter how rude the cyclist is, just have some patience.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/transporta ... lists.aspx
Of course, nobody will be perfect - some cyclists will ride 2 abreast and some drivers will buzz cyclists. Keep in mind that the worst case scenario for the driver is that the cyclist gets hurt and the driver will be facing stressful legal proceedings. And the worst case for the cyclist is death. So no matter how rude the cyclist is, just have some patience.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Ok, at the risk of sounding like I'm in the anti-bicycling camp (which I'm not), I felt the need to address a few things here. While I respect (and even personally embrace) the overall movement towards more cycling and less driving, the cyclists need to remember that the roads were originally built to transport cars*, not their bikes. Even if bike lanes have subsequently been installed, the onus is on them to use some common sense and respect the rules of the road, which are still largely (+95% or more) dominated by automobile traffic.
*Ok, so the roads in DC were originally designed to handle horse and buggy traffic.....which is largely why traffic is so awful around here (combined with the lack of synchronized stop lights, especially on the stupid roundabouts).
They also have to obey all traffic laws, which I rarely observe happen around here (DC area). Nearly every single bicyclist I observe on "their road" runs every red light, runs stop signs, makes illegal turns, rides the wrong way down a one-way street, pulls on and off of sidewalks and back into the road, sneaks up behind a car at a red light and tries to pass him on his right side (and gets infuriated when the car is turning right and had no way to see him sneaking up), etc...BuckyBadger wrote:These cyclists have the right to the lane.
No, but again, I do expect them to obey traffic laws and use a little common sense on the road, especially if they are truly concerned with their own safety. As an aside, most of the cyclists on the national park trails around here also display an enormous sense of entitlement over all lanes of the trails...often nearly running over walkers & runners (in the right lane) and blaming them for not getting completely off of the trail. I believe this kind of arrogance carries over to their behavior on the roads as well.BuckyBadger wrote:You can't expect cyclists to pull over for every car that wants to pass them. It simply doesn't work that way.
That's fine, but your "ownership" would be limited to an infinitesimally small minority share, sense the vast majority of the funding for maintenance comes from gasoline taxes that are implicitly paid for by the drivers of cars. In that light, you would be "entitled" to only a very small minority share of the lane....just a thought.BuckyBadger wrote:(As far as who owns the roads, I've usually lived in places where I paid a fee to register my bike. Those fees went toward road maintenance, so the cyclists owned those roads, too.)
*Ok, so the roads in DC were originally designed to handle horse and buggy traffic.....which is largely why traffic is so awful around here (combined with the lack of synchronized stop lights, especially on the stupid roundabouts).
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I agree completely that cyclists have to obey all traffic laws, which in my experience most do. I always do.hornet96 wrote: They also have to obey all traffic laws, which I rarely observe happen around here (DC area). Nearly every single bicyclist I observe on "their road" runs every red light, runs stop signs, makes illegal turns, rides the wrong way down a one-way street, pulls on and off of sidewalks and back into the road, sneaks up behind a car at a red light and tries to pass him on his right side (and gets infuriated when the car is turning right and had no way to see him sneaking up), etc...
Cyclists who pass cars on the right side at a red light are excellent operational candidates for natural (de)selection. (Even as a runner, I assume that cars turning right are looking left rather than at me.)
I am mostly a runner, so I understand the resentment of cyclists. As a group, they do seem a bit entitled at times. But I ride just enough to know how vulnerable cyclists feel. So when I'm running on my favorite trails, I frequently jump off and on the paved surface to allow cyclists to pass walkers when we all inevitably converge at the same spot on the trail at the same time. (The real culprits are the clueless walkers who have zero situational awareness.) You spend a couple of hours dodging oblivious walkers, dogs on and off leashes, and children on foot and on bicycle--not to mention deer, squirrels, and birds--and you can get frustrated.hornet96 wrote:No, but again, I do expect them to obey traffic laws and use a little common sense on the road, especially if they are truly concerned with their own safety. As an aside, most of the cyclists on the national park trails around here also display an enormous sense of entitlement over all lanes of the trails...often nearly running over walkers & runners (in the right lane) and blaming them for not getting completely off of the trail. I believe this kind of arrogance carries over to their behavior on the roads as well.BuckyBadger wrote:You can't expect cyclists to pull over for every car that wants to pass them. It simply doesn't work that way.
But I think I'm still a much nicer cyclist than most of those "real" cyclists.
- Epsilon Delta
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Not a very coherent thought.hornet96 wrote: That's fine, but your "ownership" would be limited to an infinitesimally small minority share, sense the vast majority of the funding for maintenance comes from gasoline taxes that are implicitly paid for by the drivers of cars. In that light,
you would be "entitled" to only a very small minority share of the lane....just a thought.
The majority of funding for roads comes from local property and sales taxes. Gas taxes don't even cover the maintenance of the interstate system.
The minority argument is silly. Like a motorist, a cyclist only needs "ownership" of the few hundred square meters they're using at a given time. If cyclists are a tiny minority this is a tiny minority of the road. If cyclists are a majority, which happens in some locations at some times, this may be the majority of the road. But in either case it's not an unreasonable share. If there's a hundred cyclists on a rural road they're not blocking traffic, they are traffic.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I usually wait until I can see a little road ahead and can cross the person safely; Sometimes cross over yellow/double lines. In ca, especially on hills(280 service roads, CA-1, etc), I am extra cautious because a slight miss/ small bump to bicyclist can often lead to fatality because of speed/valley next to it. Rarely this is frustrating for a mile as two, but most bicyclists are very courteous here. My first year here, I almost bumped into a cyclist when turning free right when using the second lane from right(allowed, large pickup blocking visibility on right most lane) . Having never driven in a city before, that was a wake up call for being on lookout for bicyclists.
The only time I get frustrated when 3-4 people ride next to each other covering an entire lane. Irrespective of how many lanes there are on road, this is somewhat contrary to what I learned on my limited group riding. I don't mind a parent riding on left of a kid(helps visibility), but sometimes just adult riders don't leave room for cars.
The only time I get frustrated when 3-4 people ride next to each other covering an entire lane. Irrespective of how many lanes there are on road, this is somewhat contrary to what I learned on my limited group riding. I don't mind a parent riding on left of a kid(helps visibility), but sometimes just adult riders don't leave room for cars.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
This.adamthesmythe wrote:The double line is there because there is insufficient visibility to pass a car. Bicycles are usually a fair bit slower than cars. You need less visibility to pass. If in my judgement there is enough visibility I would pass.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
+4Andyrunner wrote:x3jhfenton wrote:I agree on all counts.tigermilk wrote:As a cyclist, please pass me as soon as it's safe, double yellow or not. Nothing I hate more than timid drivers, who I feel create a safety concern for all involved.
The suggestion to honk - don't unless it's a light tap from several hundred feet behind. A close proximity honk from behind can be startling, unsettling a rider and making a well intentioned situation bad. Trust me, we can hear cars coming, even without a horn. The wind buffet and tires against the road create enough sound for a warning.
Honking is a bad idea. You know how if you look to one side while driving you tend to turn the car that way? Same with a bike. Now imagine a startled biker doing that. They will turn their head to look at you and most likely steer into the car. Biker knows your coming, now your just startling them.
Just to add, just like rude and bad drivers, there are also rude and bad cyclists. Most are good, just the bad apples stick out. I knew a rider who rode in the middle of the lane because he "legally had a right to". I said law of physics and Darwinism overrules that argument.
When I'm on the bike, nothing irks me more than a car driving slowly behind me when there is plenty of room to pass. As other cyclists have mentioned above, it makes me nervous as to what the cars behind him will do since they're frustrated at the guy driving slow. No need to honk, just go.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Ok, fine... but the overall sentiment is more coherent than you think. The point is that the roads in question were originally (and still are) intended primarily for automobile usage....i.e. a majority of road usage will be comprised of automobile traffic.... and yet many (if not most) cyclists around here display a smug arrogance as if the cars driving on these very roads are trespassing through their living room or something.Epsilon Delta wrote:
Not a very coherent thought.
The majority of funding for roads comes from local property and sales taxes. Gas taxes don't even cover the maintenance of the interstate system
Also, if you think my argument is silly, what about the original argument I was responding to that claimed paying a bicycle registration fee (which presumably contributes an insignificant amount to road maintenance compared to property & sales taxes) entitled him to some amount of ownership over the road?
If the proportion contributed doesn't have any bearing on the "ownership" share, then fine - but let's make sure the bicyclists acknowledge this fact as well.BuckyBadger wrote:(As far as who owns the roads, I've usually lived in places where I paid a fee to register my bike. Those fees went toward road maintenance, so the cyclists owned those roads, too.)
Epsilon Delta wrote:The minority argument is silly.
No it isn't; see above. "Majority" in this case = the primary purpose of the road's existence.
I grew up in a rural area where getting stuck behind tractors or combines was a pretty common occurrence. Almost every time, the tractor would at least try to get over to the right as far as he could (and onto the shoulder), in order to allow more room for the cars to pass (since again, the primary intended use of the road was for cars, not tractors, and the farmer knew he was impeding vehicular traffic). Shouldn't cyclists be expected to display the same type of common courtesy, whether there is 1 or 100 of them?Epsilon Delta wrote:Like a motorist, a cyclist only needs "ownership" of the few hundred square meters they're using at a given time. If cyclists are a tiny minority this is a tiny minority of the road. If cyclists are a majority, which happens in some locations at some times, this may be the majority of the road. But in either case it's not an unreasonable share. If there's a hundred cyclists on a rural road they're not blocking traffic, they are traffic.
Look, I'm not saying that drivers shouldn't be careful and look out for the cyclists on the road - there are indeed a lot of dangerous drivers out there that are a real threat to cyclists trying to share the road. What I am saying is that it would behoove more cyclists (at least the ones around here) to give some consideration to the fact that they are riding their bicycle on a road that was indeed built for automobile traffic, not the other way around.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
All points that I SPECIFICALLY addressed in my posts. Cyclists SHOULD follow the rules of the road. Many do, some don't. You can't judge a group by the bad apples. There are plenty of poorly behaved drivers, too.hornet96 wrote:Ok, at the risk of sounding like I'm in the anti-bicycling camp (which I'm not), I felt the need to address a few things here. While I respect (and even personally embrace) the overall movement towards more cycling and less driving, the cyclists need to remember that the roads were originally built to transport cars*, not their bikes. Even if bike lanes have subsequently been installed, the onus is on them to use some common sense and respect the rules of the road, which are still largely (+95% or more) dominated by automobile traffic.
They also have to obey all traffic laws, which I rarely observe happen around here (DC area). Nearly every single bicyclist I observe on "their road" runs every red light, runs stop signs, makes illegal turns, rides the wrong way down a one-way street, pulls on and off of sidewalks and back into the road, sneaks up behind a car at a red light and tries to pass him on his right side (and gets infuriated when the car is turning right and had no way to see him sneaking up), etc...BuckyBadger wrote:These cyclists have the right to the lane.
No, but again, I do expect them to obey traffic laws and use a little common sense on the road, especially if they are truly concerned with their own safety. As an aside, most of the cyclists on the national park trails around here also display an enormous sense of entitlement over all lanes of the trails...often nearly running over walkers & runners (in the right lane) and blaming them for not getting completely off of the trail. I believe this kind of arrogance carries over to their behavior on the roads as well.[/i]BuckyBadger wrote:You can't expect cyclists to pull over for every car that wants to pass them. It simply doesn't work that way.
Cyclists should follow the rules and it drives me crazy when they don't. Especially when I was on my bike behaving as I should and a cyclist zips through a crosswalk or runs a stop sign.
But just because some cyclists are inconsiderate doesn't mean we all are, and the fact remains that you can easily KILL one of us on the road.
Your argument seems to be: some cyclists don't follow the rules so I have a right to be angry at them and torment them. Or is that what you're saying? I'm not sure - you seem to just be giving examples of cyclists breaking the law.
ETA: Many of you are accusing cyclists of smugness and arrogance. How can you tell someone is smugly arrogant from the back? All I see are slinky tops and padded bottoms...
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Since cars are supposed to tool along at 15 mph on a 45 mph road behind a cyclist until there's an open spot without getting mad about it, why shouldn't a cyclist go 2 mph behind a walker and not get mad?jhfenton wrote:(The real culprits are the clueless walkers who have zero situational awareness.) You spend a couple of hours dodging oblivious walkers, dogs on and off leashes, and children on foot and on bicycle--not to mention deer, squirrels, and birds--and you can get frustrated.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
No - my point is just that it would behoove more cyclists to realize that they have an obligation themselves to contribute to their own safety on the road. I know it's not fair to paint a group with broad generalizations, but it my experience this one has been fair more often than not.BuckyBadger wrote:Your argument seems to be: some cyclists don't follow the rules so I have a right to be angry at them and torment them. Or is that what you're saying? I'm not sure - you seem to just be giving examples of cyclists breaking the law.
I know it sounds like I'm just complaining (ok, I kind of am), but try driving anywhere in downtown DC and you'll understand where I'm coming from. (Ok, don't try that, driving anywhere around here does indeed stink on all accounts )
I can tell on the national park trails when they zip by me (as a runner, all the way to the right) as close as they can, with no one in the left lane for miles, all the while yelling, in an angry voice, "on your left, on your left, ON YOUR LEFT!!! WATCH OUT!!!!!" as if to expect me to get off the trail completely.BuckyBadger wrote:ETA: Many of you are accusing cyclists of smugness and arrogance. How can you tell someone is smugly arrogant from the back? All I see are slinky tops and padded bottoms...
Or when on the same trail they decide "well, there is a runner coming towards me in the other direction, and I'm going to pass this clump of people even though it means I'll nearly hit him in the left lane and/or will make him get off the trail completely."
Or, in the city when I am in my car at a red light, look both ways, and begin to turn right when a cyclist pulls up beside me on my right (and who is planning to run the red light), I nearly hit him, and he POUNDS HIS FIST ON MY DOOR as if it was my fault.
Yes, these are all real life examples (some on multiple occasions), and yes, I know not all cyclists are like this, and I am drawing from a small sample size. I'm really just wishing that all parties would display some common courtesy (and common sense) on the road, which seems to be a diminishing quality these days.
Or maybe I'm just getting old.
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Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
I too feel that a car going slow behind me is lining me up in his sites.Raybo wrote:I don't like cars that unnecessarily go slow behind me, when it is clearly safe to pass. I get concerned that something unpleasant may be in store for me, which is why I like cars to get around as soon and safely as possible.
Rush hour and after happy hour are the worst time to be a cyclist on the road.Kiter wrote:I would much rather a person drive slowly behind me until they feel it is safe to pass than have an agitated, angry person behind me. These are the people who are dangerous when they pass. This is why I never cycle while people are going or coming from work (no bike paths).
In NJ the law is bicycles have to keep as far right as possible. If I ever tried to ride in the center of a lane, especially during rush hour I would not be cycling long. I have seen this especially when two cyclists are riding side by side. IMHO this type of behavior makes it dangerous for all cyclists. The police and many lawmakers would not mind bicycles being banned from public roads, they consider them toys. I go out of my way to stay out of car's way.BuckyBadger wrote:These cyclists have the right to the lane.
You can't expect cyclists to pull over for every car that wants to pass them. It simply doesn't work that way.
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
Has there been a DNS attack? I signed on looking for financial wisdom and it looks like I've been redirected to Bike Forums.
To address the OP question.
In most states it is illegal to cross the double yellow lines to pass another moving vehicle which includes a bike. Recognizing that it takes much less space to pass a bike as it does another moving car some states are amending the above law to permit passing a bike if there is sufficient room ahead and the passing car leaves adequate room.
Some states have a law that on narrow roads the slower moving vehicle must pull over once X number of vehicles are waiting behind. This is courteous behavior in rural areas along low trafficked roads. But don't expect a cyclist to pull over in the suburbs for every car that comes up behind them. If they did that they might as well be walking.
A rider near me was recently killed by a vehicle that tried to pass on a narrow road where the visibility ahead was restricted by a hill. During the pass oncoming traffic suddenly appeared so the vehicle swerved back into the right lane and ran right over the cyclist. So patience in making sure it is safe to pass is a virtue!
To address the OP question.
In most states it is illegal to cross the double yellow lines to pass another moving vehicle which includes a bike. Recognizing that it takes much less space to pass a bike as it does another moving car some states are amending the above law to permit passing a bike if there is sufficient room ahead and the passing car leaves adequate room.
Some states have a law that on narrow roads the slower moving vehicle must pull over once X number of vehicles are waiting behind. This is courteous behavior in rural areas along low trafficked roads. But don't expect a cyclist to pull over in the suburbs for every car that comes up behind them. If they did that they might as well be walking.
A rider near me was recently killed by a vehicle that tried to pass on a narrow road where the visibility ahead was restricted by a hill. During the pass oncoming traffic suddenly appeared so the vehicle swerved back into the right lane and ran right over the cyclist. So patience in making sure it is safe to pass is a virtue!
Re: How should drivers react to bicycle riders on one lane roads?
You are contributing virtually nothing to this discussion and appear to be simply airing a bizarrely vehement resentment you harbor towards cyclists. How does your view that (some? most? all?) cyclists are entitled, lawbreaking assholes address the OP's question about how he should deal with bikes on narrow roads?hornet96 wrote:Ok, at the risk of sounding like I'm in the anti-bicycling camp (which I'm not), I felt the need to address a few things here. While I respect (and even personally embrace) the overall movement towards more cycling and less driving, the cyclists need to remember that the roads were originally built to transport cars*, not their bikes. Even if bike lanes have subsequently been installed, the onus is on them to use some common sense and respect the rules of the road, which are still largely (+95% or more) dominated by automobile traffic.
They also have to obey all traffic laws, which I rarely observe happen around here (DC area). Nearly every single bicyclist I observe on "their road" runs every red light, runs stop signs, makes illegal turns, rides the wrong way down a one-way street, pulls on and off of sidewalks and back into the road, sneaks up behind a car at a red light and tries to pass him on his right side (and gets infuriated when the car is turning right and had no way to see him sneaking up), etc...BuckyBadger wrote:These cyclists have the right to the lane.
As to your response to BuckyBadger above, how is the fact that some, or even many, cyclists violate traffic laws in any way related to other cyclists' right to use an entire lane? Your comment is a total non sequitur. Cyclists are not members of some sort of collective where misdeeds by some are the responsibility of all. If that were the case, you as a driver would have very little to say as a result of the virtually universal speeding, texting, cell-use and inattention of your compatriots.