Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

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sport
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by sport » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:04 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:Most drivers set their mirrors to create a larger blind spot than necessary by having a significant part of the car reflected in the mirror. You'd think that the existence of the car would be a matter of faith and not require visual confirmation :D
People do this to establish a point of reference. If the car does not appear in the mirror, it is difficult or impossible to understand where the mirror is "pointing".

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:12 pm

sport wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:Most drivers set their mirrors to create a larger blind spot than necessary by having a significant part of the car reflected in the mirror. You'd think that the existence of the car would be a matter of faith and not require visual confirmation :D
People do this to establish a point of reference. If the car does not appear in the mirror, it is difficult or impossible to understand where the mirror is "pointing".
Understood, which is why I said "a significant part of the car reflected ..."
I find that the merest sliver of the car is enough for me to know where the mirror is pointing.

Rodc
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by Rodc » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:39 am

sport wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:Most drivers set their mirrors to create a larger blind spot than necessary by having a significant part of the car reflected in the mirror. You'd think that the existence of the car would be a matter of faith and not require visual confirmation :D
People do this to establish a point of reference. If the car does not appear in the mirror, it is difficult or impossible to understand where the mirror is "pointing".
I learned this when I took my daughter to advanced driving school when she was a new driver. So I got something out of it too.

I found it disconcerting to not see the car.

Your brain figures it out rather quickly and the disconcerting feeling goes away.

I would add that you see the road, you see the side of the road or the lane markers, etc. It is not like staring into blank space.

There is no need to see your own car.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

Browser
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by Browser » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:05 am

I noticed that the driver's side mirror on the Acura has the outer edge angled out differently from the rest of the mirror. The idea is to provide a wider field of vision outward. However, I found this to be quite distracting and didn't like it a bit when test driving the vehicle. None of the other vehicles I've driven have this. Maybe this is Acura's 25-cent substitute for radar approach warning. Does anyone have this type of mirror and what do you think of it? Is it something you can get used to?
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

btenny
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by btenny » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:23 am

When I was younger they used to sell small round domed shape mirrors that you could stick onto your existing outside mirror. I had some on my van for years. I also had some on a big truck (with only side view mirrors) I drive for a summer. They work great and increase what you can see a lot.

You see similar setups on lots of big truck and big pickup mirrors now. There they offset the outside mirror at a different angle to get a second view. The key is improving your vision of stuff in your "blind spot. These special mirrors work much better.

Browser
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by Browser » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:38 am

btenny wrote:When I was younger they used to sell small round domed shape mirrors that you could stick onto your existing outside mirror. I had some on my van for years. I also had some on a big truck (with only side view mirrors) I drive for a summer. They work great and increase what you can see a lot.

You see similar setups on lots of big truck and big pickup mirrors now. There they offset the outside mirror at a different angle to get a second view. The key is improving your vision of stuff in your "blind spot. These special mirrors work much better.
I guess you get used to it and look in two different places on the mirror: the inside portion is the "normal" view you are used to and the outside portion is a different view canted to the outside. I couldn't get used to it during the test drive, since I got two different images of the car in the next lane and couldn't figure out exactly where it was.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

randomguy
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by randomguy » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:08 pm

btenny wrote:And every one of these cars leaves out a very useful feature, a Front View Camera. Tell me why? Every one of these new cars has some sort of front view radar or camera to look out for other cars and stuff. But none of them just displays the front view so the driver can park correctly. Almost every week I need a Front View camera to tell me how close I am to some obstacle in a parking garage. So most times someone (or me) has to get out of the car and guide me into a tight space. UGH.... Then how many people here scrape over the undercarriage or front bumper of their cars on some cement parking curb that is too high for the car. A good Front Camera would stop this nonsense.

Just saying a lot of the "safety features" designed so far are not very good IMO.......
There are a lot of cars with 360 cameras these days if that is an issue for you. Alot of them also have sonar in the front that will beep at you. Personally I find it takes about 2 weeks to adjust to the size of the car and then figuring out how far you are from a wall is pretty straight forward.

Or you could just buy one of the self parking cars and calll it a day:)


None of this tech is going to be 100% perfect. But even a 25% reduction in accidents is huge. When the manufactors start chaging 1k or less for systems I expect everyone to go for them. When you have to pay 10k+ in packages to get it, it is much tougher choice.

JohnF
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by JohnF » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:22 am

btenny wrote:When I was younger they used to sell small round domed shape mirrors that you could stick onto your existing outside mirror. I had some on my van for years. I also had some on a big truck (with only side view mirrors) I drive for a summer. They work great and increase what you can see a lot.
Bubble mirrors, they’re still available and work great in my opinion.

PowDay
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by PowDay » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:42 pm

Latest Update from the IIHS

"Systems with automatic braking reduce rear-end crashes by about 40 percent on average, while forward collision warning alone cuts them by 23 percent, the study found. The autobrake systems also greatly reduce injury crashes.

If all vehicles had been equipped with autobrake that worked as well as the systems studied, there would have been at least 700,000 fewer police-reported rear-end crashes in 2013. That number represents 13 percent of police-reported crashes overall."

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopne ... nd-crashes

psystal
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by psystal » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:39 pm

Browser wrote:
neurosphere wrote:Take death and injury off the table. Consider costs such as car damage, property damage (as already mentioned), and consider the costs of time to deal with accidents, repairs, filing insurance claims. Add in police time taking/filing reports, road crews to clear the road, etc. It may be that the costs of the safety features (particularly those which prevent accidents) might be substantially offset by reductions elsewhere. But obviously I have no way of quantifying any of those parameters. :)
You're only focusing on nuisance accidents that you could have mitigated, which leaves out the whole category of accidents done to you by somebody else. Every accident I've had in a 50-year driving career was caused by somebody else running into me. Until every vehicle on the road is equipped with these features, that's not likely to change much. And, when everybody else has this stuff on their cars, I won't need it on mine... :wink:
Some of those safety features actually can help you avoid accidents that would have been the fault of another drive. Side and rear-view cameras are especially useful for avoiding other bad drivers (these should be mandated standard safety equipment, IMHO). Auto braking and forward collision warning for when the guy in front of you does something dumb. You could even argue that blind spot detection protects you from that idiot who has been riding in your blind spot for two miles.

The real crime isn't that these systems aren't useful in reducing the risks (both physical and financial) of driving, it's that they're treated as add-ons and extras available only to those able to pay for them. It doesn't cost much to include cameras and a display in a car, but often you have to upgrade to the tune of several thousand dollars to get access to them. It's strange how we treat electronic safety devices so differently than their "analog" companions.

Imagine going to a car dealer and being told that the seat belts and airbags are only available in the EX-L model. But hey, if that's out of your range, you can still get the laminated safety glass for your windshield in the base EX model!

squirm
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by squirm » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:22 pm

Anything that can protect me or my wife on the road is good. I see to many close calls from drivers that are texting.

psteinx
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by psteinx » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:48 pm

Given such a large magnitude of effect (IMO), from the IIHS study, I would hope that insurance companies adjust rates appropriately.

If given an opportunity to set a rate for
Car A, with automatic braking
and
Car B - same model, but no auto-braking nor fwd collision warning, then

...it seems that car A would have a ~13% lower chance of being in a police reported crash. It's not exactly clear what the % in claims reduction (both from vehicle damage and personal injuries) might be, but still, if insurance premiums for such vehicles were, say, 10-15% lower, then for a buy and hold-er (someone who will likely keep the vehicle ~10 years), the insurance savings could cover much of increased cost. In some scenarios - perhaps even all of the cost or more, especially if the systems get cheaper...

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tadamsmar
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:15 pm

I think automatic emergency braking will be mandated soon. I would not be surprised if NHTSA announces a schedule for that within the next year.
NHTSA announced in November that automatic emergency braking, or AEB, will be added to its 5-Star Rating System as a recommended safety technology for model-year 2018. While it is not currently mandatory equipment, NHTSA and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety said in November that 10 major vehicle manufacturers have committed to making AEB a standard feature on all new vehicles.
http://www.autoremarketing.com/trends/c ... y-features

squirm
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Re: Aren't we overdoing electronic auto safety features?

Post by squirm » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:50 pm

Browser wrote:I noticed that the driver's side mirror on the Acura has the outer edge angled out differently from the rest of the mirror. The idea is to provide a wider field of vision outward. However, I found this to be quite distracting and didn't like it a bit when test driving the vehicle. None of the other vehicles I've driven have this. Maybe this is Acura's 25-cent substitute for radar approach warning. Does anyone have this type of mirror and what do you think of it? Is it something you can get used to?
Same with Honda, works great.

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