Summer college credit courses for high school students

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Fisherman
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Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Fisherman » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:30 pm

Do summer college credit courses for high school students help in college acceptance.

Thanks

renue74
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by renue74 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:38 pm

My wife teaches high school math. I don't think taking summer college classes help admission, per se.

But, a child in AP Placement classes do get a chance to take AP exams at the end of the year to receive college credit. Also, doing well in AP classes do show admissions people that the student is excelling at upper level work.

Going back to my college years, I wished so much that I had the opportunity to get as much college credit early. That wasn't really offered.

Now, my wife told me that many of their seniors are actually bussed to the local community college and are taking college classes their senior year of high school. What a great idea!

blevine
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by blevine » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:04 pm

Of course it would help in admission, if you take substantive courses and do well.

kjvmartin
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by kjvmartin » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:28 pm

Where I grew up, AP was barely offered. I felt that I was at a bit of a disadvantage as a result.

Some of my cohort were graduating college at 3 or 3.5 years. Advanced placement and dual enrollment really helped.

random_walker_77
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by random_walker_77 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:46 pm

Does it help? Yes, but only if they do well. There are summer programs for high school students at everything from elite colleges, such as Harvard, down to state and community colleges. Getting a letter of recommendation from a prof can be helpful. (Even more so if it's from a Harvard/Stanford professor :D )

I strongly believe that even community college classes for core subjects are vastly superior to taking AP classes. Most colleges will accept credit transfers for core classes, and the odds of those classes counting against key requirements is substantially better. With AP classes, even after acing the AP test, the class might only be recognized for "general" credits without counting towards specific science/math/english requirements. With a community college class, the odds are much better that the class will be recognized towards core requirements, so that you don't have to repeat the class later.

I think it's telling that at some tier-1 universities, there are pre-med students who take care of their physics/calculus requirements at a neighboring community college so as to safeguard their GPA.

But it should also be noted that there's a reason why colleges recognize community college credits. AP classes are in the minor leagues. One year of an AP class might cover a quarter's worth of material in college. And the corollary holds -- that summer class is likely to cover a year's worth of material. A full load in the summer could be quite overwhelming for a high school student.

The summer after my junior year of high school, I took a year's worth of college calculus in 8 weeks. I literally had dreams about calculus problem sets. But the hard work paid off, I did really well and got a letter of recommendation which helped me stand out when applying to top universities.

I also took a full load of community college classes my senior year of high school. Washington state even has a program where the state even covers the tuition for high school students. The teaching at community colleges can be truly excellent. They have small class sizes, instructors whose main emphasis is teaching rather than research, and there's usually a lot more of an effort to teach students rather than weed out the bottom 90% (engineers will know what I'm referring to).

Fisherman
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Fisherman » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:30 pm

Thanks for the input

dolphinsaremammals
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by dolphinsaremammals » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:38 pm

random_walker_77 wrote: I think it's telling that at some tier-1 universities, there are pre-med students who take care of their physics/calculus requirements at a neighboring community college so as to safeguard their GPA.

But it should also be noted that there's a reason why colleges recognize community college credits. AP classes are in the minor leagues. One year of an AP class might cover a quarter's worth of material in college. And the corollary holds -- that summer class is likely to cover a year's worth of material. A full load in the summer could be quite overwhelming for a high school student.
When I was in college, there was no such thing as AP classes, at least that I ever heard of, but one of my classmates had gotten college credit for community college classes, which she continued to accumulate in summers (She could have taken summer classes at our school.) She was held in considerable disdain by the other students, since she was considered not up to the intellectual level of her classmates because the demands of community college were laughable compared to the "real" college. The general feeling was that she was cheating her way to a degree from a more demanding school.

MathWizard
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by MathWizard » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:41 pm

random_walker_77 wrote: AP classes are in the minor leagues. One year of an AP class might cover a quarter's worth of material in college.
Things may have changed. My son's year long AP Calc class covered about 3/4 of a year of
Calc at a Teir-1 Research Univ. With some extra study guide from the instructor, he
tested out of the first two semesters of Calc, and he did well in Calc III the next semester.

Calc from the local CC was not as good. Students taking the Calc I at the CC did not
do as well in Calc II as students who took Calc I at the Univ.

Of course this is only anecdotal evidence.

cherijoh
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by cherijoh » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:40 pm

random_walker_77 wrote:Does it help? Yes, but only if they do well. There are summer programs for high school students at everything from elite colleges, such as Harvard, down to state and community colleges. Getting a letter of recommendation from a prof can be helpful. (Even more so if it's from a Harvard/Stanford professor :D )

I strongly believe that even community college classes for core subjects are vastly superior to taking AP classes. Most colleges will accept credit transfers for core classes, and the odds of those classes counting against key requirements is substantially better. With AP classes, even after acing the AP test, the class might only be recognized for "general" credits without counting towards specific science/math/english requirements. With a community college class, the odds are much better that the class will be recognized towards core requirements, so that you don't have to repeat the class later.

I think it's telling that at some tier-1 universities, there are pre-med students who take care of their physics/calculus requirements at a neighboring community college so as to safeguard their GPA.

But it should also be noted that there's a reason why colleges recognize community college credits. AP classes are in the minor leagues. One year of an AP class might cover a quarter's worth of material in college. And the corollary holds -- that summer class is likely to cover a year's worth of material. A full load in the summer could be quite overwhelming for a high school student.

The summer after my junior year of high school, I took a year's worth of college calculus in 8 weeks. I literally had dreams about calculus problem sets. But the hard work paid off, I did really well and got a letter of recommendation which helped me stand out when applying to top universities.

I also took a full load of community college classes my senior year of high school. Washington state even has a program where the state even covers the tuition for high school students. The teaching at community colleges can be truly excellent. They have small class sizes, instructors whose main emphasis is teaching rather than research, and there's usually a lot more of an effort to teach students rather than weed out the bottom 90% (engineers will know what I'm referring to).
Hmm, It sounds like your HS had substandard AP classes. I started with 28 credit hours at my state university - 2 semesters each in Calculus, Chemistry, History, and English. With the selection of AP classes offered, there was no need for summer school or spending part of the school day at the CC. But if your school district doesn't offer enough academically challenging classes, then a CC is a fine way to get a jump on your college requirements.

But I would make sure that your college accepts them first. Our local CC knows exactly which classes will transfer to the area 4-yr universities so it is a Boglehead way to stretch your tuition dollars further. But I'd be hesitant if the student were going to go to college somewhere distant from home. The nice thing about taking the AP exam is that a college should be able to tell you what the required score is to receive credit. It is not that simple with CC credits unless the university is familiar with the CC program.

In contrast to your post, I was able to use my Calculus and Chemistry credits towards my major, my English credits to cover my college English requirements, and only History counted towards General University Requirements.

But I'm not sure this addresses the OPs question about helping with college admission. I'm not sure that it would beat out an internship in a field related to the student's area of study, but it would probably get more points than a summer job flipping burgers or working retail at the mall.

student
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by student » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

MathWizard wrote:
random_walker_77 wrote: AP classes are in the minor leagues. One year of an AP class might cover a quarter's worth of material in college.
Things may have changed. My son's year long AP Calc class covered about 3/4 of a year of
Calc at a Teir-1 Research Univ. With some extra study guide from the instructor, he
tested out of the first two semesters of Calc, and he did well in Calc III the next semester.

Calc from the local CC was not as good. Students taking the Calc I at the CC did not
do as well in Calc II as students who took Calc I at the Univ.

Of course this is only anecdotal evidence.
My conclusion is the same. (Yes, I teach math at a university.) In my experience, AP Calculus (AB) covers Calculus I and AP Calculus (BC) covers Calculus I and II. I think most instructors "teach to the middle" so the students are challenged more in a class with more prepared students. My university also has a dual-enrolled program for high school students and I frequently have high school students taking my sophomore level classes. I found their AP math classes prepare them well.

For the OP question, I think it does help for admission if a student gets a 5 in an AP course. However, it would be much better if a student has competed in local math/science fairs.

Fisherman
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Fisherman » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:16 am

Thank you all

Traveller
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Traveller » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:13 am

One more thing to consider is CLEP exams. Many schools accept CLEP credits for typical freshman core classes. Two of my kids have knocked out several classes this way.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:08 pm

Another thing to consider is that even if summer school does not help get into college and doesn't count toward college credit it may still help the student graduate from college on time with a good GPA. When they get to college they'll be seeing some of the material for the second time and it won't be as overwhelming.

There's a tendency to take summer courses in subjects you're good at. It often works out better to take courses in subjects you're bad at, but need to graduate. Some CC professors who are much better teachers than the faculty and graduate assistants at more august institutions. Check that poor summer school grades can be ignored, or take them on a non-credit basis.

Also, do the summer reading.

nfs
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by nfs » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:40 pm

If student is going to go to a big university, having some credits will help them register for classes earlier. This might mean the difference in graduating in 4 years instead of 5 because they'll be able to get the classes they need.

hyla
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by hyla » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:14 pm

Where I went to college, AP and transfer credits were fairly broadly accepted to fill gen ed requirements, but they made you repeat classes for a major requirement even with an excellent transfer/AP grade. So if you are looking to use summer credits to aim for a faster college graduation, you may be better off taking gen ed requirement classes, not classes in the student's intended major.

But of course, colleges vary, so check transfer policies if you have a few colleges in mind.

Fisherman
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Fisherman » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:26 pm

Thanks for the suggestions, so is not a good idea if one want to do premed in college to complete Biology requirement during summer in a good college summer credit class

HIinvestor
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by HIinvestor » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:39 am

Our S entered college with 60 credits--the max allowed, due to his APs and his one summer college course in statistics. He was in EE, so it was recommended and he opted to re-take pretty much all the math and science for engineering but found it pretty easy to do well and adjust to college life. It gave him extra prep and confidence. Pretty much all his classmates in engineering also took AP and some also had taken summer college courses as well. He found the AP courses he took more challenging and better prep than the summer college course he took in stats. So much depends on the course, prof, curriculum, and other students.

For pre-med, I'd ask the advisor at the U you plan to attend whether to repeat the course (and have an easier time) or advance to the enxt course and possibly find it very difficult. The advisors generally have good recommendations, especially if you have the curriculum you took and can compare it with the curriculum at the U.

Fisherman
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by Fisherman » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:27 am

Thanks

EagertoLearnMore
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by EagertoLearnMore » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:30 am

Do you have any idea which college the student will attend? Because some colleges/universities have online information that discusses in great detail what courses can be subsituted from a community college to their university. USUALLY courses for the MAJOR are not accepted in lieu of taking the course at their university, but many "core" or gen-ed courses may be completed before stepping foot on the university campus. It is not unusual for students to have 30, 40 or more credits towards their degree when they start. This means that with extra summer courses some students complete their college career in 3 years or start work towards a master's degree. Please post more details if you need additional assistance.

FredL
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by FredL » Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

You may be interested in this article from New York Times. Promising Full College Credit, Arizona State University Offers Online Freshman Program through edX. You don't need to pay tuition until you pass the exam at the end of the session. Each credit hour is $200.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/us/ar ... ademy.html

FredL
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by FredL » Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

You may be interested in this article from New York Times. Promising Full College Credit, Arizona State University Offers Online Freshman Program through edX. You don't need to pay tuition until you pass the exam at the end of the session. Each credit hour is $200.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/us/ar ... ademy.html

FredL
Posts: 210
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Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by FredL » Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

You may be interested in this article from New York Times. Promising Full College Credit, Arizona State University Offers Online Freshman Program through edX. You don't need to pay tuition until you pass the exam at the end of the session. Each credit hour is $200.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/us/ar ... ademy.html

FredL
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:48 pm

Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by FredL » Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

You may be interested in this article from New York Times. Promising Full College Credit, Arizona State University Offers Online Freshman Program through edX. You don't need to pay tuition until you pass the exam at the end of the session. Each credit hour is $200.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/us/ar ... ademy.html

FredL
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:48 pm

Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by FredL » Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

You may be interested in this article from New York Times. Promising Full College Credit, Arizona State University Offers Online Freshman Program through edX. You don't need to pay tuition until you pass the exam at the end of the session. Each credit hour is $200.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/us/ar ... ademy.html

FredL
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:48 pm

Re: Summer college credit courses for high school students

Post by FredL » Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

You may be interested in this article from New York Times. Promising Full College Credit, Arizona State University Offers Online Freshman Program through edX. You don't need to pay tuition until you pass the exam at the end of the session. Each credit hour is $200.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/us/ar ... ademy.html

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