Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

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mac_guy
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Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by mac_guy »

The other day, I saw a surveyor working in my neighbor's yard before I left for work. When I got home, I saw that the surveyor had hammered in wooden stakes into what I had thought was my yard. The stakes have written "property line" on them.

There is a wooden fence separating my neighbor's property from my property. These stakes from the surveyor are actually driven in on my side of the property about 12 inches from the fence.

My neighbor moved in earlier this year and I really haven't gotten to know him yet. The fence between our properties was installed about a year ago (before this new neighbor had purchased the home.) My previous neighbor and I shared the expense. We did not use a surveyor - we just replaced a very old fence that had been in place for longer than anyone remembered. We both just assumed this older fence was on the correct property line.

Should I be worried about this? My neighbor has not spoken to me yet. I am worried he is up to something.

What could happen to me? Could he force me to remove the existing fence and rebuild it on what he thinks is my property? Is this something I can fight?
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

You built it with the previous neighbor. You did nothing out of line. The new neighbor could probably take the fence down if he wanted to. I wouldn't worry. Perhaps he has a shed coming that has to be a distance from the property line and he wants to be sure.
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texasdiver
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by texasdiver »

He may have been required to get a survey done as part of his financing or refinancing of his loan.

Fences are commonly built on one side of the property line or the other in which case one property owner owns the fence not the other. That would make it his fence and he could remove it but he couldn't make you do anything. I doubt most property owners would want a fence removed though, unless it was an eyesore or something.

If you are curious just go knock on the door and ask. Is that so hard these days?
livesoft
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by livesoft »

I'm surprised the neighborhood hasn't already had a welcoming party with beer, barbecue, etc for the new neighbor.

Make sure he mows that 12 inches of his property outside of his fence. :)

It is very likely when the property was sold that it was surveyed or the old survey was examined and the new neighbor knew his property extended a foot beyond the fence. You should go talk to them. Also surveys can be wrong, too.
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derosa
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by derosa »

From your information it sounds like it is his fence by about 1'.

Should you be worried? Hard to say at this point.

You have no idea why the survey was done. Could be something completely unrelated to the fence - maybe a question onthe other side of the lot?

If he likes HIS fence probably not a problem.

If he doesn't like HIS fence he may remove it or replace it. He might give you the chance, at your expense, to move it to your property.

I would go over and ask in a very neighborly and friendly way about the survey marks. Whats up with the survey? I am surprised that there was no survey done at the time he bought the lot which would have shown you where the line was.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

I would be slightly wigged out myself, but I'd calm down and have a friendly chat with the neighbor.

You may have to fork out for a survey by someone you hire. Yes, surveys can be wrong.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by livesoft »

This gives me an idea on how to punk my neighbor. Thanks!
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Spirit Rider
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Spirit Rider »

It is likely that this is the correct property line. A surveyor is legally obligated to identify the correct property line based on the deeds of record.

It would make sense that the fence would be one foot on one side of the property line or the other. There is usually a requirement that fences be a minimum distance within one property. So even though you jointly built the fence with the previous neighbor, it is likely on the property of the new neighbor. Maintenance would also be fully their responsibility.

You could discuss this with the new neighbor and inform him of the circumstances and the fact that you would like to jointly maintain the fence and would take the responsibility of the lawn maintenance on your side if you wish. He probably would be within his rights to decline.

As always, YMMV. These types of issues have there own local slant to them.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by dbr »

My neighbor had some concerns about the exact location of the property line. We discussed the issue and decided to hire a survey jointly. While nothing turned out to be different than either of us suspected, having an up to date survey for all the boundaries of your property and stakes in the ground has been most helpful in doing some new sidewalk work, fencing, clarifying location of some large trees and so on. Surveying also established the exact demarcation between private lots and city property for street and alley work. I consider making sure you have identifiable survey markers for your property to be a very helpful thing to do.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by freebeer »

are you in a rural area where things are on wells and/or septic systems? If so it may be that the neighbor was required to get a survey as part of enhancing or even just maintaining these things (or even for home remodeling) and that the determination that the boundary line is 1 foot on your side of the fence was an innocent (and not too surprising) side effect. I would ask the neighbor about it. Anyway a foot more or less doesn't seem like the end of the world particularly if the neighbor is agreeable to maintaining the fence as-is. Of course you could purse an adverse possession claim but for a 1 foot strip that would seem somewhat excessive to me.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by inbox788 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:You built it with the previous neighbor. You did nothing out of line. The new neighbor could probably take the fence down if he wanted to. I wouldn't worry. Perhaps he has a shed coming that has to be a distance from the property line and he wants to be sure.
Interesting/complicated situation. Is that a risk of building a fence that's not on the border? The side that owns the land really owns the fence, even though both neighbors pay for it?

As far as the shed or other building, having a fence deep in one's land can give the appearance of the shed or building being very close to the fence, but sufficiently far from the property line. Partly defeats the purpose of the rule.
livesoft wrote:This gives me an idea on how to punk my neighbor. Thanks!
:mrgreen: Devious!! Great idea until it comes back to bite you when there is an issue with the border...against you!
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by MrBachelor »

Civil Engineer here and I deal with this type of issue frequently for my commercial development clients. If you are in a standard subdivision with regular lots all approximate the same size you have little to worry about. As mentioned previously he may have needed an ALTA survey for refinancing, home expansion, or building a shed. He would need to know the actual property limits for such things. Cities have setback requirements. It is unlikely he would want to remove the fence between your properties or try to force you to move it. If you are not on a platted subdivision lot he is likely wanting to know the boundary for similar reasons.

Depending on your state laws and how they are interpreted the fence may be the legal boundary between your properties, regardless of what the deed or plat says. Look up the term "boundary by acquiescence" and see how your state rules on the issue. You and your previous neighbor basically agreed that the fence was the common boundary and each maintained the land on your side of the fence. Therefore it may have become the new boundary in the court's eyes. Your laws may vary but in my state this is often the case unless the fence is clearly marked a "fence of convenience".

Note that there is a difference between the concept of boundary by acquiescence and adverse possession which involves willful taking by one party.

Bottom line, talk to your neighbor.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by 4nursebee »

LOL Really? You are asking here instead of asking your neighbor? OMG, the end of civilization is upon us, I must sell all my market holdings and prepare for Gold to be bullish!
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mac_guy
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by mac_guy »

4nursebee wrote:LOL Really? You are asking here instead of asking your neighbor? OMG, the end of civilization is upon us, I must sell all my market holdings and prepare for Gold to be bullish!
I understand what you're saying. I probably should have gotten to know my neighbor by now. There are reasons - we had a terrible winter so we weren't outside much. I think he travels a lot for his job, as he's not around much.

In any event, I do plan to more formally introduce myself soon. I am just trying to do some research into property boundary issues before I talk to him.

I live in a suburban, pretty densely populated area. There are no septic tanks or well on the properties.

Personally, I like the fence. If, for some reason, he doesn't like it and wants to remove it, it would be a shame. It is rather new. I don't want to speculate too much, however, before talking to him in person.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by HardKnocker »

mac_guy wrote:The other day, I saw a surveyor working in my neighbor's yard before I left for work. When I got home, I saw that the surveyor had hammered in wooden stakes into what I had thought was my yard. The stakes have written "property line" on them.

There is a wooden fence separating my neighbor's property from my property. These stakes from the surveyor are actually driven in on my side of the property about 12 inches from the fence.

My neighbor moved in earlier this year and I really haven't gotten to know him yet. The fence between our properties was installed about a year ago (before this new neighbor had purchased the home.) My previous neighbor and I shared the expense. We did not use a surveyor - we just replaced a very old fence that had been in place for longer than anyone remembered. We both just assumed this older fence was on the correct property line.

Should I be worried about this? My neighbor has not spoken to me yet. I am worried he is up to something.

What could happen to me? Could he force me to remove the existing fence and rebuild it on what he thinks is my property? Is this something I can fight?
Sounds like your neighbor just assumed ownership and responsibility for that fence. After all, it is on his property. He now has to maintain it (assuming he wants to keep the fence).

He can remove it if he wants as it is on his property. I wouldn't worry about it myself.

Next time you put up a fence make sure you know where the property line is. Obviously the old fence you replaced was on your neighbors property. You didn't need to help pay for the new fence but it was a nice gesture. However you don't own the new one.

If you think the new survey is in error, pay for your own survey. A positive is that now you have freshly surveyed property lines and it didn't cost you anything.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by LiveSimple »

Wish nothing serious.

Check if you neighbor is from a different culture.

Yes back home our grandpa lived for the home boundary lines.

Now we just go by the usage.

Enjoy
Last edited by LiveSimple on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Stonebr »

I've always assumed that a property owner builds a fence on his/her side of the line -- 6 inches or a foot inside. Evidently, the old fence was done this way. A survey would have told you and your neighbor that the fence was his property and his responsibility. Now you know.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Pajamas »

Hmm. It wouldn't surprise me that a new property owner is getting a survey or that you're curious about what the consequences may be. Assuming the survey is accurate, it isn't changing any reality, just making it visible. What comes next, though? Is he planning a storage building or garage, a swimming pool, an addition to his home?

Assuming the fence is one foot over on his property, and depending on the laws in your state and locality, you may be getting a letter shortly making it clear that the one foot strip of land is his property to head off any adverse possession claims in the future.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by HardKnocker »

Most people get a new survey when they buy the house. Perhaps when that survey was done, the surveyor didn't put in boundary stakes.

They sometimes charge more to put in stakes. He may have called the surveyor back to just clear up where his property line is and find out who owns the fence.

It always amazes me that people are afraid to talk to their neighbors. Why not ask the guy why he had stakes put in?
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by ShiftF5 »

There is a reason he paid for a survey.

If he were my neighbor I'd like to know the reason.

I'd find a way to be out in the yard when he is coming or going and have a little casual chat with him.

He will likely say something about the stakes. Mystery solved.

Good luck.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by sambb »

Your neighbor is doing stuff with his own property. Not sure its any of your business, but you could just ask.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by S&L1940 »

Bought a thirty YO home in NY state that was in an independent community - all individual builders and owners. Turns out the title search showed that an ancient fence was set 1-2 feet over the actual property line. It was never an issue (even forgot who had the advantage), we discussed this with our new neighbor and that was the end of the "problem". While our plots were not that huge, there was never a real encroachment of usable space. Could be a concern if the one foot difference affected landscaping, gardens or play areas. This also gave us an opportunity to meet our new neighbors!
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by mhalley »

You laugh, but my neighbor complained about me not mowing the other side of my fence. It was about a 2 mower width section. When the fence needed replaced, i moved it up to the prperty line so i didn't have to make the trek throug a third neighbors property to get to the area that needed mowed. As my wfe says, good fences make good neighbors.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

One of my presumptuous neighbors had the line between our properties surveyed several years ago. It turned out that he wanted to purchase a portion of my back yard so he would have room for a storage shed and a dog house. It turned out that he eventually found another area for them :D

Some of the stakes are still in place.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by White Coat Investor »

mac_guy wrote:The other day, I saw a surveyor working in my neighbor's yard before I left for work. When I got home, I saw that the surveyor had hammered in wooden stakes into what I had thought was my yard. The stakes have written "property line" on them.

There is a wooden fence separating my neighbor's property from my property. These stakes from the surveyor are actually driven in on my side of the property about 12 inches from the fence.

My neighbor moved in earlier this year and I really haven't gotten to know him yet. The fence between our properties was installed about a year ago (before this new neighbor had purchased the home.) My previous neighbor and I shared the expense. We did not use a surveyor - we just replaced a very old fence that had been in place for longer than anyone remembered. We both just assumed this older fence was on the correct property line.

Should I be worried about this? My neighbor has not spoken to me yet. I am worried he is up to something.

What could happen to me? Could he force me to remove the existing fence and rebuild it on what he thinks is my property? Is this something I can fight?
You seem a bit paranoid. Why not walk over with a plate of cookies and introduce yourself? Then in the conversation say, "I noticed you had a survey done. Any plans with the fence the guy who sold you the house and I built together now that it is clearly on your side of the line?"
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WL2034
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by WL2034 »

Well now that the current fence clearly belongs to your neighbor, a reasonable idea would be to build a new fence 3" onto your property. This would leave approximately 15" of space between the two fences, and since 80% of that is his property I would expect him to maintain it. That should pretty much fix the issue. I wouldn't bother discussing it with your neighbor beforehand. :beer

Or I guess you could just go talk to your neighbor, but since everyone else is suggesting that I thought I'd give you an alternative strategy.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

Both houses I've owned, a fence was right on the property line, not set back in either direction.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by surveyor »

The surveyor marked his opinion of where the property line is. Ownership of the fence and the land between the line and the fence is a legal issue. It will be very, very difficult for you to obtain quiet title to the land between the line and the fence. If you both want to maintain the status quo you he can grant you a non-perpetual easement for the strip of land between the property line and the fence for as long as the fence is maintained in its current location. Upon removal it is extinguished. You can also work a deal for maintenance of the fence into this. Fences are evidence of occupation, not property lines. Also, if the fence surrounds his back yard he may now have the same problem on the other side of his property. Knowing the issue but maintaining a status quo isn't necessarily a bad thing.

There is a chance, especially if the subdivision is older (ie 60+ years) and there are no original controlling monuments remaining, that there could be a foot or more of uncertainty due to uncertainty in the controlling monuments. If you can get a copy of the survey it should have a report detailing such things. If there isn't or it is really vague it might not be a waste of money to have your own survey completed.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by 2tall4economy »

I'd say your use of the land is open and notorious. That's enough for you to have gotten it as a "squatter" I think. But I'm not a lawyer.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by likegarden »

I bought this NOLO book 'Neighbor Law', costs only around $20, is worth reading it and knowing about cases like yours. There is adverse possession, can become a slippery slope. The present and previous 2 houses we owned had property always surveyed to know where we live. One neighbor has his house oriented such it looks that half my sideyard is his, but is not. Owners were surprised when I had a fence put up after the survey, also to keep previous owner's big untrained German shepherd dog out.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Ron »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:Both houses I've owned, a fence was right on the property line, not set back in either direction.
That is also the rule in our township. The same goes with plantings, even though they may grow onto the next property. Of course, that property owner has the right to cut back any growth (as long as it doesn't adversely impact the original planting - such as a tree) that grows on their property.

I have trees/bushes on both sides of my property but I did have them planted 2' "back" from the respective property owner. I'm going to have a fence put on the rear of my property (new houses built) and I'll have it placed on the property line with no setback. No need to worry about "growth" with a fence :D ...

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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Jetpack »

I wouldn't be surprised if your neighbor doesn't contact you first. I moved into our current house about 4 years ago and was expecting a land survey to be done, as that was what was done on our first house we bought, but the survey wasn't done, so about 2 months later I paid to have a survey done. This was important to me because I am a "lawn junkie" and wanted to redo my entire lawn in the fall, including killing the fescue and planting 100% kentucky bluegrass. I needed to know my property lines so I didn't inadvertently kill my neighbor's lawn. Now I have the peace of mind of knowing exactly where the property line is for future projects.

BTW, when I came home from work and saw the survey had been done and the stakes were in the ground I made an effort to talk to each neighbor to discuss my reasoning. I wouldn't be too paranoid about it, until you talk to your neighbor, as it is likely they are just looking to do some projects and want to know their boundaries.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Chicken lady »

If you want to know what you own when you buy property, get a survey. Why be nervous? Sounds like you didn't have a survey done when you moved in - now you know where your property ends. Does this make any difference to how you use the property in question? If not, relax and welcome your new neighbor to the neighborhood.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by LynnC »

MrBachelor wrote:Civil Engineer here and I deal with this type of issue frequently for my commercial development clients. If you are in a standard subdivision with regular lots all approximate the same size you have little to worry about. As mentioned previously he may have needed an ALTA survey for refinancing, home expansion, or building a shed. He would need to know the actual property limits for such things. Cities have setback requirements. It is unlikely he would want to remove the fence between your properties or try to force you to move it. If you are not on a platted subdivision lot he is likely wanting to know the boundary for similar reasons.
Depending on your state laws and how they are interpreted the fence may be the legal boundary between your properties, regardless of what the deed or plat says. Look up the term "boundary by acquiescence" and see how your state rules on the issue. You and your previous neighbor basically agreed that the fence was the common boundary and each maintained the land on your side of the fence. Therefore it may have become the new boundary in the court's eyes. Your laws may vary but in my state this is often the case unless the fence is clearly marked a "fence of convenience".
Note that there is a difference between the concept of boundary by acquiescence and adverse possession which involves willful taking by one party.

Bottom line, talk to your neighbor.




Depending on your state laws and how they are interpreted the fence may be the legal boundary between your properties, regardless of what the deed or plat says. Look up the term "boundary by acquiescence" and see how your state rules on the issue. You and your previous neighbor basically agreed that the fence was the common boundary and each maintained the land on your side of the fence. Therefore it may have become the new boundary in the court's eyes. Your laws may vary but in my state this is often the case unless the fence is clearly marked a "fence of convenience".



I had the exact same thing happen to me. The original neighbor and I both agreed that the fence we put up WAS the property line. We agreed in writing, so when the new neighbor came along with lofty ideas for HIS side, it didn't work.

LynnC
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by ubermax »

Didn't read all the posts but I think getting a survey done is a smart thing to do for all concerned for the obvious reasons - but OP I also think that you should have your own independent survey done and see how close the two are - of course you have to determine what's close , to me it would be a couple feet .

See where things fall and then, as others have said, have a chat with him about the fence , etc.

In our first house we never got a survey and there came a time when new neighbors moved in and we wished that we had gotten one - won't bore you with the details .
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Carefreeap »

I'm guessing your neighbor is planning on doing an addition.

We're in a SF Bay Area suburb. People don't typically get a survey when they buy unless there's an issue. One of our backyard neighbors did one shortly after she and her siblings inherited the family house about eight months ago. There are probably over 100 trees on the lot, some of which are huge. We were glad because we found out that two huge eucalyptus trees are hers! Now that they are trying to sell the house it's become a disclosure issue. We're trying to work with her and our tree company to deal with it before we landscape our yard. It's going to be a lot more expensive if they can't come out through our yard.
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What's important

Post by Taylor Larimore »

mac_guy:

Having the fence on his property or yours is not what's important. It is just a fact you are unlikely to change.

What IS important is remaining on good terms with your neighbor.

Act accordingly.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by noyopacific »

I have a good friend who is a surveyor. He as lots of hillarious stories about people disputing their property lines. The bottom line is that residential property owners are often passionate about the limits of their territory. The rational concept of a legal boundary description isn't the issue so much as the perceived threat to territory.

Should you be nervous ? I would be cautious. Your neighbor might also be treading cautiously around you. He may see you as a neighbor who has not demonstrated any interest in a friendly relationship. Perhaps your new neighbor has had trouble with past neighbors that made efforts to expand their territory and simply wanted to have a clear idea where the line is.

My first step would be to take them a loaf of my homemade bread, cookies or flowers and apologize for not introducing myself and welcoming them sooner. Miss Manners or Emily Post probably says that it is the responsibility of the existing residents to welcome new neighbors. You can make excuses about the weather and busy lives if you like. I wouldn't discuss the survey the first time I introduced myself unless he brings it up first.
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by sevenseas »

Not to scare the OP, but I have a horror story of sorts, memories of which were revived by this thread. When I was in college, we got a dog, and my dad decided to fence our backyard himself. Unfortunately, he neglected to have a survey done, and placed the fence on one side of the yard at the midway point between our house and our neighbor's house.
We had gotten along fine with these neighbors prior to this. Then one day, Mrs. B comes over and tells my dad that she has had a survey done, that he has incorporated a 7" width of their property into our fence, and according to some law that she had found, after a certain amount of time that land would revert to us if they did not dispute it. She pretty much accused my dad of doing it on purpose (let's say that I had the distinct impression that there was some racial bias involved in her interpretation of events.)
Yes, it was my dad's fault ultimately. But the fact that she made him put up an ENTIRE new fence, 7" parallel to the first one...well, to me that seemed a bit uncalled for. Not to mention that the weeds and grass in that 7" strip between the 2 fences (strangely, she never asked my dad to remove the first one) were an unsightly mess.
OP, I sure hope that your neighbor has a more benign reason for his actions.
Carefreeap
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Carefreeap »

sevenseas wrote:Not to scare the OP, but I have a horror story of sorts, memories of which were revived by this thread. When I was in college, we got a dog, and my dad decided to fence our backyard himself. Unfortunately, he neglected to have a survey done, and placed the fence on one side of the yard at the midway point between our house and our neighbor's house.
We had gotten along fine with these neighbors prior to this. Then one day, Mrs. B comes over and tells my dad that she has had a survey done, that he has incorporated a 7" width of their property into our fence, and according to some law that she had found, after a certain amount of time that land would revert to us if they did not dispute it. She pretty much accused my dad of doing it on purpose (let's say that I had the distinct impression that there was some racial bias involved in her interpretation of events.)
Yes, it was my dad's fault ultimately. But the fact that she made him put up an ENTIRE new fence, 7" parallel to the first one...well, to me that seemed a bit uncalled for. Not to mention that the weeds and grass in that 7" strip between the 2 fences (strangely, she never asked my dad to remove the first one) were an unsightly mess.
OP, I sure hope that your neighbor has a more benign reason for his actions.
Yeah, people get all whacked out about claims of Adverse Possession or Prescriptive Easements with no clue what it takes to establish them. Your dad probably should have talked to them before putting up the fence. In situations like this I recommend that folks document a one-page "license" that can be terminated in 30 days and the fence be relocated to the property line.
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mac_guy
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by mac_guy »

sevenseas wrote:Not to scare the OP, but I have a horror story of sorts, memories of which were revived by this thread. When I was in college, we got a dog, and my dad decided to fence our backyard himself. Unfortunately, he neglected to have a survey done, and placed the fence on one side of the yard at the midway point between our house and our neighbor's house.
We had gotten along fine with these neighbors prior to this. Then one day, Mrs. B comes over and tells my dad that she has had a survey done, that he has incorporated a 7" width of their property into our fence, and according to some law that she had found, after a certain amount of time that land would revert to us if they did not dispute it. She pretty much accused my dad of doing it on purpose (let's say that I had the distinct impression that there was some racial bias involved in her interpretation of events.)
Yes, it was my dad's fault ultimately. But the fact that she made him put up an ENTIRE new fence, 7" parallel to the first one...well, to me that seemed a bit uncalled for. Not to mention that the weeds and grass in that 7" strip between the 2 fences (strangely, she never asked my dad to remove the first one) were an unsightly mess.
OP, I sure hope that your neighbor has a more benign reason for his actions.
That is interesting. I was thinking more about this issue today. If the surveyor's boundary lines are correct, then the entire fence is my new neighbor's property. I imagine they could do whatever they want with it - take it down, replace it, etc. But, I would imagine that would be done at their expense. However, is there any scenario where they could make me pay to have the old fence removed and have a new fence put in closer to the property line?

I didn't think so until I read "sevenseas" story.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

mac_guy wrote:That is interesting. I was thinking more about this issue today. If the surveyor's boundary lines are correct, then the entire fence is my new neighbor's property. I imagine they could do whatever they want with it - take it down, replace it, etc. But, I would imagine that would be done at their expense. However, is there any scenario where they could make me pay to have the old fence removed and have a new fence put in closer to the property line?

I didn't think so until I read "sevenseas" story.
IANAL, but I can't imagine how since it is on his property and probably IS his property now.

I had an experience similar to sevenseas. Not long after I moved into my current house, a fellow built a house on the adjacent property which had been thickly wooded. He soon informed me that my fence was several feet onto his property (it was) and that he would be removing it.

I did not take kindly toward his neighborliness at the time, but eventually we removed the rest of our fence and like our place much better without the fence. As much work as it was to remove the remainder of the fence, we decided that he had done us a huge favor even though it didn't feel like it at the time.
gd
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by gd »

Having just paid thousands of dollars in surveyor and lawyer fees to have a mis-surveyed property line amicably resolved with a neighbor whose family screwed up both properties 80 years ago, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The fence was properly positioned slightly on your neighbor's side. It's his fence, to do with what he will. Nice of you to pay for half of it with your previous neighbor, but you've got a clean slate now and a new, modern owner who follows the modern style of not talking to the neighbors. He just wanted to know his territory. I'd assume the (presumably) licensed surveyor is correct and not second-guess it. There are often physical markers backing that up-- read your deed.
Yooper
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Yooper »

Look at the bright side, you've got 2 of your 4 property corners legally marked for free (and I'd make note of the rod locations so if/when they're overgrown you know where to find them). I got my property surveyed shortly (at significant expense) after taking possession and there's something very comforting knowing exactly where your property lines are.
meebers
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by meebers »

My son bought a new house from builder #1. His house had a driveway made of paver bricks. Drive way about 10 ft wide, curved and about 200ft long. Long story short, of the 26 lots in the neighborhood, about 10 were built on. The driveway was surveyed by the county and a parcel description was produced. Builder #1 goes into slow motion and about 2 years later, sells to Builder #2. Builder #2 sells the lot next to my son, new survey resulted in the neighbors lot being about half way into my sons driveway. New neighbor and son agree to sell the lot overage for $100. Builder #2 says NO, he is selling the lot as is, you can continue with purchase after the sale, BUT, my son has to move the driveway off of the neighbors property until the property is sold. Builder #2 says he is not putting any money towards this. Builder #1 say's I sold it to Builder #2. The survey that the county signed off on is refusing to take action/responsibility. About 6 months of #$%*%%@ Builder #1agreed to pay for the move, which included moving the pavers, underlayment, trees, flowers, grass/sod and sprinkler pipes/heads.

I always make it a point to know where the property lines are as well as the setbacks etc. I would never share the expense of a fence with a neighbor, because if built on the "line", someone has to own it if liability is involved, and a decision made which gets the good side of the fence which depends on the fence type chosen. New neighbors can be new problems. One of my current neighbors, after about 2 years, came to my house and told me that her husband has decided that their fence is not on the property line, and that he was going to hire a company to move it 12" closer towards my house. We pulled the plot plans, and compared the measurements from each house to the "line". Her fence was 2 " already into my property. I told her to have her husband call that company and have her fence moved back on her property. He never did, we have not spoke for last 5-6 years. :) If I ever move, I am going to make sure the survey and the title is clear to the next buyer. Maybe they won't care, maybe they will.
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TnGuy
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by TnGuy »

mac_guy wrote:.... is there any scenario where they could make me pay to have the old fence removed and have a new fence put in closer to the property line?
Since he went ahead and purchased the property "as is" (i.e. - w/ the fence already existing on his side of the property (and, that assumes that his survey is a correct one)), then he owns the fence outright - and can't make you do anything in regards to it. It would be the same in him asking you to remove the fence as if he were to ask you to re-side his house - they are both fully his responsibilites since they are both fully his properties.

The only thing you could do is hire your own survey if you think you may want to dispute his.

David
"Money will not make you happy. And happy will not make you money." - Groucho Marx
hicabob
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by hicabob »

meebers wrote: We pulled the plot plans, and compared the measurements from each house to the "line". Her fence was 2 " already into my property.

The plot lines are not relative to the houses, which of course were put there after the plots were divided. They are relative to a known marker.
Boglegrappler
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Boglegrappler »

Your neighbor is doing stuff with his own property. Not sure its any of your business, but you could just ask.
I'm in this camp, basically.

Anyone can have their property surveyed. The fact that the survey now suggests that the fence belongs to your neighbor probably means that he could remove it if he wants to. That's life.

I'll make one more comment for food for thought. Its my opinion that its a mistake to hold viewpoints on what your neighbor can or cannot do with his property. All of the rules are written down and spell out what he can do with a permit, and what things might require a special permit. If something requires more than a normal permit, he'll normally be required to send notices to the neighbors and a hearing would be held by the planning and zoning board.
Hug401k
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by Hug401k »

We just had our property surveyed. We have stakes around the property and a few neighbors have asked us what's up. We are interested in building a garage and perhaps an addition, but our property has some weird shapes, is on a corner and is the lowest property (drainage) so we had a survey done to ensure it was all possible.

Remarkably enough, the fence that has been on one property line for so long that no one knows who owns it- was right. (and I've asked 2 owners back). I wouldn't panic. There is no way I would ever remove a perfectly good and expensive fence for 6 inches.
likegarden
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Re: Neighbor hired a surveyor. Should I be nervous?

Post by likegarden »

It's not so much about 'establishing your territory' to have a survey done, but it is about peace with neighbors. I.e. in my case I have neighbor's by now huge arborvitae crowding out my path to meters on the side of my house. Those conifers I now have to prune annually, and I am retired. Having a survey done shows me and all neighbors where we can do our projects and plant trees without infringing on other's rights , whixch will result in peace with neighbors into the future.
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