Restaurant tipping

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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cheese_breath
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by cheese_breath »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
lcs wrote: I'm only 24, and I remember when 10% was considered standard.
I'm quite a bit older than you are, and 10% was never standard.
Maybe I'm older that you Louis because I remember when 10% was standard.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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ChicagoMedStudent
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by ChicagoMedStudent »

cheese_breath wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
lcs wrote: I'm only 24, and I remember when 10% was considered standard.
I'm quite a bit older than you are, and 10% was never standard.
Maybe I'm older that you Louis because I remember when 10% was standard.
It would be interesting to see if there are data about historical tipping standards in the US. I did a quick google search but didn't find anything...
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gkaplan
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by gkaplan »

cheese_breath wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
lcs wrote: I'm only 24, and I remember when 10% was considered standard.
I'm quite a bit older than you are, and 10% was never standard.
Maybe I'm older that you Louis because I remember when 10% was standard.
I'm probably about your age, and I always remember fifteen percent being the standard.
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lcs
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by lcs »

gkaplan wrote:
cheese_breath wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
lcs wrote: I'm only 24, and I remember when 10% was considered standard.
I'm quite a bit older than you are, and 10% was never standard.
Maybe I'm older that you Louis because I remember when 10% was standard.
I'm probably about your age, and I always remember fifteen percent being the standard.
I'm sure it varies a lot by region. I live in the middle of Iowa, and so here the cost of living is lower and it may be that the people just never really got into tipping like the coasts did (just a cultural difference). I also tried to search for some historical data on tipping, but couldn't find anything that looked reliable.
partner
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by partner »

John3754 wrote:Not too long ago 15% was considered a standard tip for standard quality service, now it seems that 20+% is considered standard. On one occasion when I received lousy service I left 15% and was chased out into the street and yelled at by the server for not leaving enough. I feel like I'm being held hostage by the service industry.
This happened to me many years ago. I turned around and said to him " you are correct, I did not leave the appropriate amount" then walked back to the table, picked up my tip and walked out. He stood there and looked at me with his mouth open.
ne2ca28
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by ne2ca28 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:Most people have no idea how hard it is for food service workers. My son worked last summer delivering pizzas. Let's give you some examples:

Base rate $7 per hour.

Say he has 2 deliveries to make. As luck has it, they always seem to be on opposite sides of town. He drives 4 miles to his first delivery and gets a $2 tip. Then 8 miles to the next and gets a $2 tip. Then back 4 miles to the pizza shop. This is all done in half an hour.

Doesn't sound that bad, right? He got $4 in tips. Let's work it out.

His car in town gets 16 mpg and takes premium only. At $3 a gallon, he spent $3 in gas alone. He ends up with $1 from tips and $3.50 for his hourly.

While in the store, he works the counter. You know that tip jar on the counter? The owner takes ALL of that for himself.
...
Feel free to figure out how he makes any money to save for school doing this.

I tip 20% minimum.
So 20% on a $10 pizza, you gave him the $2. Premium gas and 16mpg, are we supposed to feel bad about that as someone who orders from the pizza place? I am really confused about the 8 miles, I am only 4 miles from pizza. There is also the consideration his tax deduction for mileage. Sheesh. My advice is that someone needs a new job if this is a daily occurrence.

I do think that the owner taking the money from tip jar is messed up.
harikaried
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by harikaried »

John3754 wrote:Not too long ago 15% was considered a standard tip for standard quality service, now it seems that 20+% is considered standard.
Where does this "standard" come from? Does a wait staff comment? Or a friend comments on your tip amount?

Maybe our friends are outdated, but in groups of 6 or fewer where checks can't be split, it seems like we all default to 15% for a typical restaurant. We also use that rate when it's the two of us. Although I tend to take the subtotal to calculate and round upwards and add some, whereas my wife takes the total and calculates 15% and rounds to the dollar. Now that I think about it, perhaps we are actually tipping closer to 20%...
missybon
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by missybon »

For anyone who's counting: I tip 20%. I'd rather that money were already added into the price and we got rid of tipping.
I have read that some cities (San Franciso? Portland?) have required wait staff base pay to be minimum wage or more.
Are there people who live in those places or have visited and eaten somewhere like that who can comment on how it has affected menu pricing and tipping?
RobInCT
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by RobInCT »

Spirit Rider wrote: Maybe it is my age, but this is a pet peeve of mine. What I call tip geometric inflation. Tips already have a built in inflation mechanism. As the price of restaurant meals go up the servers tips go up. No need to raise the base tip percentage.
The flaw in this logic is that it assumes that servers work only for tips, which they do not. Assuming that the price of food in restaurants has kept up with inflation, what has NOT kept up with inflation is the minimum base wage for tipped employees, which has been $2.13/hr since 1991.

In 1980 (back when 10%-15% was the standard), the minimum was for tipped employees (in 2015 dollars) was around $5/hr. The regular minimum wage was (again in 2015 dollars) about $8.50/hr. That means that in 1980, the employer covered about 60% of the minimum wage baseline. Fast-forward to 2015, and the tipped minimum is now $2.13 and the non-tipped minimum is $7.25, which means that employers are only covering about 30% of what it takes to get to baseline minimum wage, and customers are covering 70%.

In other words, over the last 40 years or so, restaurants have been shifting an ever increasing percent of labor costs onto customers. You're theoretically correct that the rise in food prices (assuming they keep up with the pace of inflation) should enough to keep inflation from eroding the value of the tipped portion of the wages without needing to increase the overall percent, but what inflation doesn't compensate for is the fact that servers are expected to earn a larger total PERCENTAGE of their salaries from tips ever before, which requires an increase in the rate of tipping (e.g. from 15% to 18%) over time to compensate.

Put another way, servers now have to get ~$3/hr more though tips alone just to break even with where they were in 1980. (Again, assuming food prices have kept pace with inflation.) Let's say a typical server rings up $400 in sales during a 4-hour shift. She has to get $12 more (4 hours x $3/hr hourly wage deflation) out of that $400 just to keep up with her 1980 total compensation. $12/$400 is about 3%, which is in fact about the amount that baseline tip has gone up since 1980.
Last edited by RobInCT on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tj
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by tj »

RobInCT wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote: Maybe it is my age, but this is a pet peeve of mine. What I call tip geometric inflation. Tips already have a built in inflation mechanism. As the price of restaurant meals go up the servers tips go up. No need to raise the base tip percentage.
The flaw in this logic is that it assumes that servers work only for tips, which they do not. Assuming that the price of food in restaurants has kept up with inflation, what has NOT kept up with inflation is the minimum base wage for tipped employees, which has been $2.13/hr since 1991.

In 1980 (back when 10%-15% was the standard), the minimum was for tipped employees (in 2015 dollars) was around $5/hr. The regular minimum wage was (again in 2015 dollars) about $8.50/hr. That means that in 1980, the employer covered about 60% of the minimum wage baseline. Fast-forward to 2015, and the tipped minimum is now $2.13 and the non-tipped minimum is $7.25, which means that employers are only covering about 30% of what it takes to get to baseline minimum wage, and customers are covering 70%.

In other words, over the last 40 years or so, restaurants have been shifting an ever increasing percent of labor costs onto customers. You're theoretically correct that the rise in food prices (assuming they keep up with the pace of inflation) should enough to keep inflation from eroding the value of the tipped portion of the wages without needing to increase the overall percent, but what inflation doesn't compensate for is the fact that servers are expected to earn a larger total PERCENTAGE of their salaries from tips ever before, which requires an increase in the rate of tipping (e.g. from 15% to 18%) over time to compensate.

There is no special tipped employee minimum wage in CAlifornia. it is the same as minimum wage for everybody else.
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pennstater2005
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by pennstater2005 »

I ate in a restaurant a few years back with my wife. Literally no one else in the section we were in. After our dinners were brought out we never saw the waitress again. Although I could hear her laughing in the back with co-workers. I had to go up to the bar to get drink refills and ketchup. No tip left and I haven't been back there since. I should've talked to the manager but didn't as there are plenty of other places to eat in the same area.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by TheTimeLord »

gkaplan wrote:
cheese_breath wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
lcs wrote: I'm only 24, and I remember when 10% was considered standard.
I'm quite a bit older than you are, and 10% was never standard.
Maybe I'm older that you Louis because I remember when 10% was standard.
I'm probably about your age, and I always remember fifteen percent being the standard.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by TheTimeLord »

tj wrote:
RobInCT wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote: Maybe it is my age, but this is a pet peeve of mine. What I call tip geometric inflation. Tips already have a built in inflation mechanism. As the price of restaurant meals go up the servers tips go up. No need to raise the base tip percentage.
The flaw in this logic is that it assumes that servers work only for tips, which they do not. Assuming that the price of food in restaurants has kept up with inflation, what has NOT kept up with inflation is the minimum base wage for tipped employees, which has been $2.13/hr since 1991.

In 1980 (back when 10%-15% was the standard), the minimum was for tipped employees (in 2015 dollars) was around $5/hr. The regular minimum wage was (again in 2015 dollars) about $8.50/hr. That means that in 1980, the employer covered about 60% of the minimum wage baseline. Fast-forward to 2015, and the tipped minimum is now $2.13 and the non-tipped minimum is $7.25, which means that employers are only covering about 30% of what it takes to get to baseline minimum wage, and customers are covering 70%.

In other words, over the last 40 years or so, restaurants have been shifting an ever increasing percent of labor costs onto customers. You're theoretically correct that the rise in food prices (assuming they keep up with the pace of inflation) should enough to keep inflation from eroding the value of the tipped portion of the wages without needing to increase the overall percent, but what inflation doesn't compensate for is the fact that servers are expected to earn a larger total PERCENTAGE of their salaries from tips ever before, which requires an increase in the rate of tipping (e.g. from 15% to 18%) over time to compensate.

There is no special tipped employee minimum wage in CAlifornia. it is the same as minimum wage for everybody else.
That is the case in 7 states. In 1991 federal minimum wage for tipped workers was increased—by a whopping four cents, from $2.09 per hour to $2.13, it's current level.
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RobInCT
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by RobInCT »

tj wrote:There is no special tipped employee minimum wage in CAlifornia. it is the same as minimum wage for everybody else.
I don't live in California. I don't know whether the person I was responding to does or not. I do know almost 90% of the country does not. I also know about California that the rate of inflation in the cost of restaurant food since 1980 has almost certainly not kept up with the rate of inflation in the cost of housing, education, and health care, which would still make the argument that tipping RATES never need to go up vulnerable to criticism.

In order for the "rate of tipping should never need to go up" argument to hold, you'd need a) either a tip-only wage, or a wage in which the non-tipped portion kept pace with inflation, AND b) the price of restaurant food to keep pace with the overall general cost of living.
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Frobie
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by Frobie »

I've been pursued out of a restaurant by a waiter exactly once in my life.

I was at one of our regular haunts for a work function. There were 8ish people there so they added a gratuity automatically. I didn't notice and tipped on top of that.

The guy chased me down in the street to point out my error. I thanked him and said it was okay.

We still go back to that place regularly, and they take amazing care of us.
lcs
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by lcs »

Here is an informational graphic on which states in the U.S. have servers at the same level as the regular state minimum wage (there are 8, counting guam), and which states have a higher minimum wage for tipped employees than the federal minimum (quite a few states, really), and which states require just the federal tipped minimum.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
Johno
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by Johno »

alec wrote:Had this experience two years ago. I tipped 15% and never went back.
Yep. Our tipping varies only slightly by the level of service by the waiter and less so the quality of the food over which they have no control. 15% is pretty much the min. The only service I can remember experiencing which was too poor to justify a tip was a few years ago where a bar-like place was busy, waiter I guess performed 'triage' figuring we wouldn't run up a big drink tab (right on that) and just ignored us. We got just put down some money to cover the drinks and left, I figure I usually would in any situation where 15% was too much. 20% usually. And if we don't like the place we don't go back.

A lot of people seem to get all political or 'social justice' about this topic pretty quickly. I don't like the whole system of tipping but it's the custom, and expectation on which the non-tip salary of the people working these jobs is based. But from what I've heard pretty uniformly from kids and nephews/nieces who've done the job the actual outcome is pretty totally random. People from certain cultural backgrounds in a diverse area like ours just don't tip or very little no matter what: it's not their custom and they don't believe 'when in Rome...'. And even 'mainstream' people are pretty arbitrary, though I'm sure they'd say 'I carefully assess the service and tip accordingly'. I just stick with the standard, pending the whole custom's deserved deposit in the trash bin of history.
Last edited by Johno on Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
RobInCT
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by RobInCT »

lcs wrote:Here is an informational graphic on which states in the U.S. have servers at the same level as the regular state minimum wage (there are 8, counting guam), and which states have a higher minimum wage for tipped employees than the federal minimum (quite a few states, really), and which states require just the federal tipped minimum.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
That's interesting. I notice that most of the states that have a minimum tipped wage above the federal minimum also have a non-tipped minimum wage above the federal minimum.

Edit: I also hate how "social justice"y the topic of tipping gets, which is why I'm more in favor of the mathematical approach than the judgment aprpoach. There's ample research out there that the amount of money a server receives in tips is affected by factors that I think we all agree we don't want people's earnings to be based on--gender, race, age, attractiveness, etc. It's one of the reasons I'm in favor of raising prices and eliminating tips and why I try very hard to adhere to a fixed standard in tipping unless some seriously outlying (either good or bad) event occurs. I hope I don't tip young, attractive female servers more than I tip middle-aged men with accents, but I don't want to have to think about whether I do or not, and giving a flat 20% eliminates the issue.
Last edited by RobInCT on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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SpringMan
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by SpringMan »

We often buy take out from restaurants and don't add a tip. They add state sales tax. The question is should a tip be added when ordering take out? We pickup the food at the register. I worry a little about being tagged a cheap skate.
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lcs
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by lcs »

SpringMan wrote:We often buy take out from restaurants and don't add a tip. They add state sales tax. The question is should a tip be added when ordering take out? We pickup the food at the register. I worry a little about being tagged a cheap skate.
I'm not sure how that works. I already feel silly tipping much at all at a buffet style restaurant where all the server does is seat you and take empty plates. You already get your own drinks and food... Is there a different tipping standard for this kind of "service"?
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LowER
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by LowER »

Raybo wrote:I find that I tip better at restaurants that I expect to go back to than those I'll only eat at once.

My reasoning is that I want the wait-staff to remember me as a "good tipper." At those places I usually leave 20% or more.

At places I'll only visit once, I base my tip on the quality of the service. My lowest level would be 10%.

This only applies in the US, where people can be employed for less than the minimum wage. In other countries, there often is no tipping tradition at all or a service charge is included on the bill. Frankly, this would be my preference in the US, as well. If the wait-staff rely on the tip, make it part of the bill.
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scrabbler1
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by scrabbler1 »

lcs wrote:
SpringMan wrote:We often buy take out from restaurants and don't add a tip. They add state sales tax. The question is should a tip be added when ordering take out? We pickup the food at the register. I worry a little about being tagged a cheap skate.
I'm not sure how that works. I already feel silly tipping much at all at a buffet style restaurant where all the server does is seat you and take empty plates. You already get your own drinks and food... Is there a different tipping standard for this kind of "service"?
I don' tip if I do takeout at a restaurant. I wait at the counter as the cook prepares my meal. They hand the bag to me, I pay, get my change, and off I go. There was no special time or effort taken by the restaurant staff, so no tip. It's like ordering some slice of pizza to go.

As for buffet, the last time I did that was at a Pizza Hut's all-you-can-eat lunch buffet. The server did provide table settings, brought our drinks, and checked back with us. It wasn't complete waitress service but it wasn't nothing. We left a few dollars as a tip, not sure what percent of the check it was (maybe 10%).
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William Million
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by William Million »

By increasing the acceptable tip percentage from 15 to 20%, while paying a very low minimum wage for servers, restaurants have sought to attract customers through low menu prices.

My experience is it is now backfiring. I know many people who do not go as often to restaurants as they would due to the uncomfortable tip issue. It was helped takeout and counter service establishments, even Whole Foods. So every business decision has costs, yet also creates opportunities.
Harold
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by Harold »

missybon wrote:For anyone who's counting: I tip 20%. I'd rather that money were already added into the price and we got rid of tipping.
I have read that some cities (San Franciso? Portland?) have required wait staff base pay to be minimum wage or more.
Are there people who live in those places or have visited and eaten somewhere like that who can comment on how it has affected menu pricing and tipping?
In San Francisco, servers are guaranteed the same minimum wage as everyone else. Currently $11.05, it will gradually increase to $15 by 2018. The servers, generally good and professional, fully expect 20% tips on top of that. (As with employees in almost any profession, servers feel they deserve every bit of their pay and more.)

Whenever a discussion arises on the topic, it generally centers around the idea that servers deserve a living wage -- and that it costs approximately $10 Zillion dollars a year to live in San Francisco.

SF minimum wage: http://sfgsa.org/index.aspx?page=411
Pinotage
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Other threads

Post by Pinotage »

This is a frequent topic of discussion. Here are just a few of the threads on tipping:

Restaurant Tipping, No Waiter/Waitress

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=161713&p=2428306

Tipping for Take Out

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=134490&newpost=2311853

Should you tip when picking up take out?

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=159520

Tipping at a "walk up order" restaurant

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=1704830

Tipping at a self-serve restaurant

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=100574

Tipping a Virtual Waiter/Waitress

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=2164390

Tipping by iPad

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=157197&p=2358455

Will this effect your tipping? (suggested tip amounts)


http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=1983812

Restaurant tipping (cash or card)

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &start=100

Tipping with credit cards at restaurants

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=91887

Changing attitudes about tipping

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... st=1797149

Tipping

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=120871

Tipping rubbish pick up people and letter carriers

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=152017&p=2281421

Tipping a house painter

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... it=tipping

Holiday Tipping

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=152557&p=2287192

Holiday Tipping

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47383

Tipping a hairdresser

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1&t=113057

Tipping for a haircut at Great Clips

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=1990647

Tipping cleaning lady

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55700

Tipping a housecleaning service

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... st=1774534

Tipping AAA

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=45428

Tipping a taxi driver on a snowy day

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=1889118

Tipping tradespeople

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=2166587

Tipping a roofing crew

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1&t=146616

Soft Drink Tipping

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52524

Tipping movers


http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=1890128

Tipping a self-employed person

viewtopic.php?t=128708&f=11

Tipping a tourguide on an extended tour

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... &p=2046538

Tipping a Birthday Hostess

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=84996

Tipping Fedex/UPS


viewtopic.php?t=77186
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LadyGeek
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Nice job, thanks. Here's another way using the forum's built-in search engine: Searched query: tipping (in topic title)
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jbuzolich
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by jbuzolich »

RobInCT wrote:
jbuzolich wrote:I definitely tip based on service and if I like the place even if they might be having a rough night. I'm still in that 10% range though mostly and only moved to around 15% at places I really like. I probably would tip 10% if my wife hadn't influenced me over the years. I definitely am not cheap or mean spirited. We donate to charity frequently. I just don't agree with the constant tipping and the idea of a baseline. Definitely no baseline for me. Charge more for the meal and pay better if that's what it takes. If places charged that though I'd probably eat out much less often.
On high end places I never tip by percent. No way I'm ever tipping $30 or $40 for less than an hour at a table.
Am I misunderstanding, or are you admitting that you take advantage of low-wage workers to subsidize your eating out? I hate tipping, and I would MUCH prefer if restaurants just raised their prices and paid their employees a living wage. But that not being the case, I tip because most servers make substantially less than minimum wage, and I think that undertipping is the moral equivalent of stealing, and stealing from the poor, at that.

If you admit that if tipping went away but prices went up to a level necessary to compensate employees for the absence of tips that you'd eat out much less often, what you're implying is that you are encouraged to eat out in part because you're able to keep for yourself part of the amount that would need to go to a waitperson in order for that person to make a fair market salary. That's... interesting.

I use 20% as a baseline. Yes, it used to be 15%, but wages for low-wage workers haven't kept up inflation. 15% if service was noticeably below average. Anything below 15% would require the server to do something so offensive I'd probably want to report it to management anyway--messed up my order in a non-minor way and yelled at me when I asked them politely to correct it, telling a racist joke, serving food that had been dropped on the floor, etc.
Lol that's just rediculous. So me as a patron is taking advantage of the oh so poor workers? Um no that's not even logical. I don't own or run that business. I'm just there for a meal and am spending money that was earned from jobs which also likely did not increase with inflation. People treat this like it's some moral obligation and it's not. How would any patron or customer even remotely be responsible for how the owner or management of that organization chose to act with their staff? If I followed some of these comments about tips then theoretically I should turn down and not buy close out items at retail stores either because a business might be selling them at a loss. Ooh or what about great coupon deals where the store might make little or no money but they got me in there to buy something anyway? Lol.
mnsportsgeek
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by mnsportsgeek »

I have a very simple strategy I use to determine tips.

I usually get water at restaurants. I don't like to drink my calories. I also drink like a horse. 3-5 glasses each time. Hence, why I don't like to drink my calories.

20% - Water is refilled on a consistent basis. I never run out. I never have to think about it.

15% - The refill comes, but I've been waiting for a bit.

10% - The refill comes so slowly, or the waiter is so oblivious that I only get 1 refill because I ask for another when the meal comes.


I realize the waiters/waitresses probably hate that I order water and don't run up a higher bill, however, if you're going to treat me like a second class citizen for it. I'm going to give you a second class tip. Refilling drinks is the easiest way to show good service. If you treat me like you would anyone else, then we have no problem. I find that I give 20% tips about 95% percent of the time. A 15% tip rarely ever, and a 10% tip 5 percent of the time.
trueblueky
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by trueblueky »

stlutz wrote:
In other countries, there often is no tipping tradition at all or a service charge is included on the bill. Frankly, this would be my preference in the US, as well. If the wait-staff rely on the tip, make it part of the bill.
In Germany before the euro, the custom was to round up to the next whole mark. Now, it's round up to the next whole euro.

One thing they did that I wish we did was run the credit card with the tip. Waitstaff arrives with the bill and says 18 Euro 25. You say 19 (or perhaps 20) and they run your card with that amount, or hand you your change if you pay cash. Not like here where you add the tip after they run your card. That makes for two transactions, and your credit card account usually shows only the first one for a day or so.
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ChicagoMedStudent
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by ChicagoMedStudent »

SpringMan wrote:We often buy take out from restaurants and don't add a tip. They add state sales tax. The question is should a tip be added when ordering take out? We pickup the food at the register. I worry a little about being tagged a cheap skate.
If you consider a tip to be in any way based on "service", then I wouldn't add one since there isn't any serving being done beyond preparing the food. That's why there aren't tips at Chipotle or other fast food places or street vendors in NYC.
Passions are the only orators which always persuade. - François de La Rochefoucauld
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ChicagoMedStudent
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by ChicagoMedStudent »

How many people here tip on wine served at a restaurant? A number of people I've asked about this say that in the past (e.g my parent's generation), tipping on alcohol was not customary. This was true especially if you were ordering wine, which could quickly add a lot to the bill. Today it seems customary to tip on the total bill regardless of wine or not.

I ask because I was recently out with family and friends for a special occasion at a fancy Chicago steakhouse. Fortunately, they allow outside wine and have a reasonable corking policy. But I looked at the wine menu, and if we had bought comparable wine from the restaurant, we'd have spent close to $400 on wine, if not more, and if we're tipping 20%, that means an extra $80. That just seems ridiculous to me.
Passions are the only orators which always persuade. - François de La Rochefoucauld
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yatesd
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by yatesd »

I tip pretty generously, but I don't like the trend where people are somehow shamed into giving a good tip for lousy service. Let's just assume a restaurant is understaffed. In the end service received is not good...and the waiter still makes out. 10% across 5 tables is better than 15% across 3 or 20% across 2.

Two alternatives come to mind.

- I could tip 50% and only eat out once a week. Feel good about overtipping while helping to close down the other 3 restaurants I would normally frequent.
- Stick to places like Chipotle, Panera, Five Guys, Jimmy Johns, Noodles, etc. No tip required and no hassles with bad service.

IMHO the marketplace is driving changes in the industry. Deluxe fast food is taking off. Locally we have a place called Mission BBQ which is very good. Of course, this will result in less jobs for servers.
PStrider
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by PStrider »

I'm one of those who fail to see logic in tipping.

1. They're already making minimum wage (MW). Why are we tipping them and not ALL other MW individuals in other professions who are also struggling to make ends meet? How is that fair?
2. These tipped individuals probably make more than what the tippers make in some cases. Heck, some of them even brag about it for all to see.
3. All we're doing is safe-guarding ourselves against them tampering with our food and giving us poor services on purpose, which they're not supposed to be doing in the first place.
4. Tipping, in my opinion, is paying extra for fake smiles and to stroke our egos/morals + don't get ridiculed by others who tip for being a 'cheapskate' because our lives would be miserable if some random people call us that.
5. Percentage tipping - Why should you give less tip just because your bill was lower than other tables even though your kids made a huge mess everywhere compared to other tables with no mess?
6. Take out tipping - Seriously? Why only them and not all other cashiers in other industries as well?

Other countries have no tipping policy, and they seem to be doing just fine.

Countless of children are also staving to death all over the world. I'm sure these servers will be all right without you feeling sorry for them.

I even discussed about this with a my dad WHILE we were out eating. I said I'll get the bill and will leave $0 tip (I normally tip flat rate up to $10 in a typical restaurant). I even show the bill to him before we got up and leave. The ride back home was as silent as it can be. He obviously did not approve my action but could not counter my argument and simply brushing it off as 'it's the right thing to do'.

I've talked to family members, friends, co-workers and they all said the same thing despite me explaining all the facts and logic. 'It's the right thing to do' or 'I'll 'feel bad if I don't leave any tip' or 'they'll judge me and remember who I was if I go back there again'. Sounds to me like they've been brainwashed and feel threatened or blindly following a tradition (the mass) without thinking for themselves like sheep.

--

I'd rather not deal with all of this 'variable treatments' and just go out to eat, get the service I'm supposed to be getting, eat my food, pay the bills and go home. Rinse and repeat everything went well.

I'm fine with raising food prices to compensate for matching minimum wage. I'll just let 'supply and demand' take its course like everything else in all other industries.

As for servers themselves, they could protest or find other jobs with higher pay just like everybody else. I don't see why it's anyone's obligation to cater to these people and not others. It's not like someone is putting a gun to their heads to make them work as servers.

My very first job (10+ years ago) was waiting tables. My mom was also a waitress back then, and we were struggling to pay bills every month (hence why I started working at 16). We'd compare our tip $ with everyone and name calling bad tippers and praising good tippers every single day.

So, I've been through all of this. It's very toxic and unproductive to say the least.

If you think I'm a lost lamb, please do share your thoughts and straighten me out. I'm all ears.
Penny-Pincher
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by Penny-Pincher »

In the UK it's not customary, but it's often automatically added (I have no problem with that), and if not then I'll usually leave something.

In America, I'd tip 100% of the time unless the server was unquestionably diabolically bad, but even then I'd say I tip in 99.9999999% of cases. It's just how it works in America. It shouldn't be but it is and so I'll do my bit.
fareastwarriors
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by fareastwarriors »

PStrider wrote:I'm one of those who fail to see logic in tipping.

1. They're already making minimum wage (MW). Why are we tipping them and not ALL other MW individuals in other professions who are also struggling to make ends meet? How is that fair?
2. These tipped individuals probably make more than what the tippers make in some cases. Heck, some of them even brag about it for all to see.
3. All we're doing is safe-guarding ourselves against them tampering with our food and giving us poor services on purpose, which they're not supposed to be doing in the first place.
4. Tipping, in my opinion, is paying extra for fake smiles and to stroke our egos/morals + don't get ridiculed by others who tip for being a 'cheapskate' because our lives would be miserable if some random people call us that.
5. Percentage tipping - Why should you give less tip just because your bill was lower than other tables even though your kids made a huge mess everywhere compared to other tables with no mess?
6. Take out tipping - Seriously? Why only them and not all other cashiers in other industries as well?

Other countries have no tipping policy, and they seem to be doing just fine.

Countless of children are also staving to death all over the world. I'm sure these servers will be all right without you feeling sorry for them.

I even discussed about this with a my dad WHILE we were out eating. I said I'll get the bill and will leave $0 tip (I normally tip flat rate up to $10 in a typical restaurant). I even show the bill to him before we got up and leave. The ride back home was as silent as it can be. He obviously did not approve my action but could not counter my argument and simply brushing it off as 'it's the right thing to do'.

I've talked to family members, friends, co-workers and they all said the same thing despite me explaining all the facts and logic. 'It's the right thing to do' or 'I'll 'feel bad if I don't leave any tip' or 'they'll judge me and remember who I was if I go back there again'. Sounds to me like they've been brainwashed and feel threatened or blindly following a tradition (the mass) without thinking for themselves like sheep.

--

I'd rather not deal with all of this 'variable treatments' and just go out to eat, get the service I'm supposed to be getting, eat my food, pay the bills and go home. Rinse and repeat everything went well.

I'm fine with raising food prices to compensate for matching minimum wage. I'll just let 'supply and demand' take its course like everything else in all other industries.

As for servers themselves, they could protest or find other jobs with higher pay just like everybody else. I don't see why it's anyone's obligation to cater to these people and not others. It's not like someone is putting a gun to their heads to make them work as servers.

My very first job (10+ years ago) was waiting tables. My mom was also a waitress back then, and we were struggling to pay bills every month (hence why I started working at 16). We'd compare our tip $ with everyone and name calling bad tippers and praising good tippers every single day.

So, I've been through all of this. It's very toxic and unproductive to say the least.

If you think I'm a lost lamb, please do share your thoughts and straighten me out. I'm all ears.
I agree.
SQRT
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by SQRT »

We usually tip about 20% with some fairly minor adjustment for perceived service levels. Tip consistently high for places we frequent a lot. We eat out quite a bit, maybe 5-6 times a week and feel a little sorry for the wait staff. These are tough fairly low paying jobs and we can certainly afford to pass a bit on. Makes me feel better.
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Teetlebaum
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by Teetlebaum »

Can we believe self-reported data?

Here's something from Diner Beware:
One researcher who studies tipping found that if servers had blond hair [10] or crouched next to customers [11] while taking orders, they got bigger tips. Finally, when female servers drew a smiley face on bills, tips increased by about 20 percent—leaving everyone happy [12].
Notes
[10] Lynn, “Determinants and Consequences of Female Attractiveness and Sexiness” (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Oct. 2009)
[11] Lynn and Mynier, “Effect of Server Posture on Restaurant Tipping” (Journal of Applied Social Psychology, April 1993)
[12] Rind and Bordia, “Effect on Restaurant Tipping of Male and Female Servers Drawing a Happy, Smiling Face on the Backs of Customers’ Checks” (JASP, Feb. 1996)
schmitz
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by schmitz »

I figure this thread is a good place for my tipping question (rather than start a new one):

My wife and I go out to eat often and we tip (what I think is) well...minimum of 20%. Sometimes 25% or 30%.

My question is since we do this, is morally ok to drop our tipping rate in the future when we are retired to say 10-15%? Is that being fair and does it all even out in the end? Tipping more now (since income is higher) to be able to tip lower later on?
toto238
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by toto238 »

If a waiter/waitress does something so horrible that it deserves speaking to a manager I'll speak to a manager. I have never had to do this before ever. I usually bring up the issue to the waiter/waitress and they get on fixing it immediately. I go out relatively often, yet somehow I haven't had any of these "horrible restaurant experiences" that people are always talking about.

1. I always use "please" and "thank you"
2. Always speak clearly and enunciate what I want. If you mutter, that's not the waiter's fault. Try pointing at the menu too if it's a noisy restaurant.
3. Aim my restaurant visits for times when its less crowded
4. Keep my orders simple. My rule is one modification max per entree. So ordering the Western Burger, but minus the mushrooms is fine. But ordering the Western burgen, minus the mushrooms, extra bacon, guacamole on the side, and romaine lettuce instead of iceberg... C'mon.

People have this attitude coming into a restaurant a lot where they are entering a situation where they are going to be the "master" and their waiter is going to be their "slave". A lot of people rationalize it by saying "Oh but i'm a KIND master! I tip well if they are a good slave!" I know this is a bit melodramatic, but that is the dynamic.

For me, when I'm going to a restaurant, I'm entering someone else's place of work. Their sole purpose in being is not to treat me as their "master". They are human beings trying to do their jobs as best they can. Many of them have already been working for 10 hours straight before you got there. They're running on coffee, adrenaline, and the crack of their manager's whip. They know they can easily be replaced with someone else, they have zero job security. It takes 2 days to train a new waiter.

So I always tip 20% at least, as I consider that my duty to pay for the services received. I would prefer it if tips were abolished altogether and they just raised the menu prices and paid their servers a fair market wage.

Ask yourself this. If you were in their shoes, what amount of money would you want to receive in exchange for an hour of your time? Would you humble yourself in front of strangers for $2.13 an hour? I'm guessing you probably wouldn't, not if you had other options available. So I simply ask myself why do I think I'm better than this other human being? Why should they be paid any less than I would be expected to be paid doing the same job?

Another thing people also need to bear in mind is that a lot of a waiter/waitress's time is spent when customers aren't there. They're cleaning, sweeping, restocking, refilling, etc. constantly, and they're getting paid $2.13 for it. Your tip isn't just covering the time they spent with you. It's also covering the significant amount of time they spent with no tables still working.

Treat human beings like human beings. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out to eat.
fanmail
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by fanmail »

That's a solid post, toto.
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climber2020
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by climber2020 »

schmitz wrote:I figure this thread is a good place for my tipping question (rather than start a new one):

My wife and I go out to eat often and we tip (what I think is) well...minimum of 20%. Sometimes 25% or 30%.

My question is since we do this, is morally ok to drop our tipping rate in the future when we are retired to say 10-15%? Is that being fair and does it all even out in the end? Tipping more now (since income is higher) to be able to tip lower later on?
If it were me, I would go out to eat less often and still leave a good tip. Like the last guy said... if you can't afford a proper tip, you can't afford to go out to eat.
dbr
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by dbr »

schmitz wrote:I figure this thread is a good place for my tipping question (rather than start a new one):

My wife and I go out to eat often and we tip (what I think is) well...minimum of 20%. Sometimes 25% or 30%.

My question is since we do this, is morally ok to drop our tipping rate in the future when we are retired to say 10-15%? Is that being fair and does it all even out in the end? Tipping more now (since income is higher) to be able to tip lower later on?
Based on the precedent that there are senior rates for all kinds of things, you could argue that this is fair.

Based on the understanding that preferred rates are offered by sellers rather than dictated by buyers, it is not fair.

Also, there is no particular reason for you to feel that you can afford to spend more while you are employed than while you are retired. It could be so and it could actually be the opposite.
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climber2020
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by climber2020 »

mnsportsgeek wrote:I have a very simple strategy I use to determine tips.

I usually get water at restaurants. I don't like to drink my calories. I also drink like a horse. 3-5 glasses each time. Hence, why I don't like to drink my calories.

20% - Water is refilled on a consistent basis. I never run out. I never have to think about it.

15% - The refill comes, but I've been waiting for a bit.

10% - The refill comes so slowly, or the waiter is so oblivious that I only get 1 refill because I ask for another when the meal comes.


I realize the waiters/waitresses probably hate that I order water and don't run up a higher bill, however, if you're going to treat me like a second class citizen for it. I'm going to give you a second class tip. Refilling drinks is the easiest way to show good service. If you treat me like you would anyone else, then we have no problem. I find that I give 20% tips about 95% percent of the time. A 15% tip rarely ever, and a 10% tip 5 percent of the time.

Just ask for a pitcher. I've done this, and it works well.
fishingmn
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by fishingmn »

In MN minimum wage for wait staff is the same as everyone else so they do make a bit more. In fact, the legislature is now considering to reduce the minimum to $8/hour while the rest of the state is scheduled to go to $9.50.

I typically do 20% but I don't tip on tax. My grandfather always insisted on not tipping on tax so I've carried that forward. Seems reasonable to me but most people we go out with tip on the total in which case we do too.
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Random Musings
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by Random Musings »

John3754 wrote:Not too long ago 15% was considered a standard tip for standard quality service, now it seems that 20+% is considered standard. On one occasion when I received lousy service I left 15% and was chased out into the street and yelled at by the server for not leaving enough. I feel like I'm being held hostage by the service industry.
Agree. And what was the rationale for that? Just because?

As a general rule, I pay 15% for good solid service. For 20%, something special has to be done. 10% if below average. I have done 0%, but no more than 5 times. And those servers deserved no tip.

I worked in restaurants during my youth in a variety of positions, busboy, waiter, cook, prep and line cooks. During those times, waiting tables paid the most, but even being a busboy paid over double of what most cooks made since I received 10% of the tips).

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
toto238
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by toto238 »

fanmail wrote:That's a solid post, toto.
I was afraid it was gaseous. as in "hot gas". Nice to know it came out solid.

I used to be a waiter for a while. I've worked at maybe half a dozen different restaurants.

I have never seen ONCE a single restaurant agree to increase a waiter's pay to make up for them not reaching minimum wage on tips. A waiter protested once, he was sacked immediately because the manager thought he was a liar and concealing tips.
wannabebogler
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by wannabebogler »

fishingmn wrote:
I typically do 20% but I don't tip on tax.
Most of the suggested tip calculators on receipts don't consider tax in their numbers either. I was surprised by this since it would be an easy way to boost $$ if someone relied on that calculation.

I don't really care what everyone else tips. I generally tip 20% on a sit down meal. If it's bad service, which I hardly ever have, I tip 15% and speak with a manager. Everyone has their own reasons but I believe I am in a fortunate situation financially in this life, and have no issue adding an extra 20% to the bill. I will likely never miss that money and it has no impact on me or my family.
harikaried
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by harikaried »

wannabebogler wrote:Most of the suggested tip calculators on receipts don't consider tax in their numbers either. I was surprised by this since it would be an easy way to boost $$ if someone relied on that calculation.
Suggested tips printed by the POS tends to be based on the subtotal. Suggested tips from the credit card printout is based on the after-tax amount.
stoptothink
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by stoptothink »

fareastwarriors wrote:
PStrider wrote:I'm one of those who fail to see logic in tipping.

1. They're already making minimum wage (MW). Why are we tipping them and not ALL other MW individuals in other professions who are also struggling to make ends meet? How is that fair?
2. These tipped individuals probably make more than what the tippers make in some cases. Heck, some of them even brag about it for all to see.
3. All we're doing is safe-guarding ourselves against them tampering with our food and giving us poor services on purpose, which they're not supposed to be doing in the first place.
4. Tipping, in my opinion, is paying extra for fake smiles and to stroke our egos/morals + don't get ridiculed by others who tip for being a 'cheapskate' because our lives would be miserable if some random people call us that.
5. Percentage tipping - Why should you give less tip just because your bill was lower than other tables even though your kids made a huge mess everywhere compared to other tables with no mess?
6. Take out tipping - Seriously? Why only them and not all other cashiers in other industries as well?

Other countries have no tipping policy, and they seem to be doing just fine.

Countless of children are also staving to death all over the world. I'm sure these servers will be all right without you feeling sorry for them.

I even discussed about this with a my dad WHILE we were out eating. I said I'll get the bill and will leave $0 tip (I normally tip flat rate up to $10 in a typical restaurant). I even show the bill to him before we got up and leave. The ride back home was as silent as it can be. He obviously did not approve my action but could not counter my argument and simply brushing it off as 'it's the right thing to do'.

I've talked to family members, friends, co-workers and they all said the same thing despite me explaining all the facts and logic. 'It's the right thing to do' or 'I'll 'feel bad if I don't leave any tip' or 'they'll judge me and remember who I was if I go back there again'. Sounds to me like they've been brainwashed and feel threatened or blindly following a tradition (the mass) without thinking for themselves like sheep.

--

I'd rather not deal with all of this 'variable treatments' and just go out to eat, get the service I'm supposed to be getting, eat my food, pay the bills and go home. Rinse and repeat everything went well.

I'm fine with raising food prices to compensate for matching minimum wage. I'll just let 'supply and demand' take its course like everything else in all other industries.

As for servers themselves, they could protest or find other jobs with higher pay just like everybody else. I don't see why it's anyone's obligation to cater to these people and not others. It's not like someone is putting a gun to their heads to make them work as servers.

My very first job (10+ years ago) was waiting tables. My mom was also a waitress back then, and we were struggling to pay bills every month (hence why I started working at 16). We'd compare our tip $ with everyone and name calling bad tippers and praising good tippers every single day.

So, I've been through all of this. It's very toxic and unproductive to say the least.

If you think I'm a lost lamb, please do share your thoughts and straighten me out. I'm all ears.
I agree.
As do I. Both my wife and I have been wait staff before (her for 4yrs), and we totally agree on this. Instead of being looked at as if we are rude, we just choose to almost never eat out (it is one of many factors in why we extremely rarely eat at restaurants). Just another odd and illogical custom that the U.S. shares with almost no other country.
toto238
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Re: Restaurant tipping

Post by toto238 »

I believe I have been financially blessed, and I'm quite certain that I'm in a much better financial situation than any waiter/waitress who has served me.

It simply just doesn't feel right to look at someone much poorer than you, judge them, and punish them if they don't meet your expectations. It's human to WANT to do it. To have that kind of power, you feel like a king. You have control over what this servant will be paid. If you feel nice that day, you may be generous. If you are displeased, you shall give less, or maybe nothing at all. Ahh, to have such power over another human being. There's a reason that there's more slaves in the world today than at any time in human history. The feeling of dominating another human being is a primal satisfaction. It is perfectly natural for humans to want to have that feeling.

But just because it's natural, doesn't make it right. It is one of the worst parts of human nature, in my opinion, and the atrocities that have been committed because of it speak for themselves. I don't want to feed into this nature at all.

Sometimes it can be difficult to think of all other human beings as equals. But with a little practice, it gets easier and you are a happier person for it.
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