Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

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FabLab
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by FabLab » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:11 pm

topos wrote:
FredL wrote:You cannot install TurboTax on
Doesn't look correct. TurboTax 2014 for Mac is available from the Apple AppStore.
Of course it is available. I've also run TurboTax through the free download program offered to Vanguard's Flagship clients. Additionally, one can purchase the CD version from Amazon (or from whomever) and install it on a Mac hard drive. Runs just fine.

Just more FUD.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by -- Herman Hupfeld

yolli71
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by yolli71 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:52 am

patrick wrote:
yolli71 wrote:This. We made the switch to a MacBook Pro 6 years ago and love it. We still own the same laptop after 6 years and it's running strong. Since that time, we've purchased iPhones, Apple TV, iPad, and a Time Capsule, and yes, they all really do work seamlessly. We've owned several different Windows laptops over the years and none of them could top our MacBook. I was really getting tired of the delayed response and 15 minute boot ups after owning Windows computers for a year or so.
Like several other Mac users, you seem to quite the expert at slowing down Windows machines. I have used Windows a long time but can't reach comparable slowness. For instance, on my Windows 7 laptop from 2012, it only takes 25 seconds from when when I press the power button until I get the web browser open with the default page loaded. That includes not just the OS startup itself but also the BIOS, typing in the password, and retrieving off the web too.
The problem is I'm not just a Mac user. I use Windows at work and have the same issue (as do most of my co-workers). Being that I'm in my 40's, I've owned several different PCs prior to moving to Mac 6 years ago. I can CONFIDENTLY say that Mac is superior to Windows when it comes to the speed/responsiveness issue. As I stated, my 2009 MacBook Pro is still running great...this would never happen w/ a Windows PC.

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Just sayin...
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Just sayin... » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:04 am

When it came time to replace my antiquated system, I didn't look at it from a Mac vs. Win perspective - I looked at the apps I would be using and made my decision primarily from that viewpoint. Comparing functionality, Chrome, Excel, Lightroom and a couple of minor utilities seemed to function identically on both platforms. File storage and Dropbox were equivalent on both platforms, so they were removed from consideration. As was Spotify. The tie-breaker was Quicken: I went Surface Pro 3 (vs. Macbook Pro or Air) because I didn't want to maintain a separate VM just to run Quicken. And no, I tried Quicken for Mac (the new version) - it is a vastly inferior product to the Windows version. If Quicken were truly cross-platform, I might be typing this on a Macbook of some sort. That said, the Mac interpretation of the Ctrl+C, CTRL-V, CTRL-X or the slight keyboard differences (home, end, etc.) were always a minor irritant when using Macs.
Last edited by Just sayin... on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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stickman731
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by stickman731 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:05 am

I used Window environment for 30 years in work and the slowness and system degradation overtime was unbearable.

At home, I am exclusive Apple now. I have a 2007 iMac Desktop and at the time got the fastest processor and expanded memory — it is still working great. In fact, I recently purchased a new MacBook Air for traveling and did the same — upgraded it with fastest processor and memory — the initial upfront cost is more but it will allow the computer to be used for years to come as program and systems evolve. I truly love how all the devices are integrated - I have an iPhone, iPad 2 Air and iPod. I make a change to contact, calendar or mail and it is handled seamlessly throughout.

I also have AppleTV and cannot wait until they start offering the mini-Bundles. I hate that I have 500 channels from Verizon FIOS and only watch ~ 10.

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Just sayin...
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Just sayin... » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:13 am

stickman731 wrote:...I also have AppleTV and cannot wait until they start offering the mini-Bundles. I hate that I have 500 channels from Verizon FIOS and only watch ~ 10.
1000% agree. I hate the fact that I cannot just buy what I want/watch. My local cable provider bundles Al Jazeera, Oxygen, BET, Nickelodeon, HSN, and a bunch of other stuff that I will *never* watch, along with my A&E, Discovery, AMC, etc. I know myself well enough to be able to select what I want from a menu of entertainment choices, and pay accordingly. I say bring on the competition!

cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:34 am

I only had Windows machines until about 2 years ago when I bought my MBA. (I HAVE had iPhones since 2009.)

Let me tell you, it's like night and day.

NEVER having to install tons of "security updates" (The Mac does it automatically)
Never having to wait to boot (Open screen, start using)
Battery lasting 10+ hours (newer windows machines probably also do this)
Having 1 crash in the last 2 years
Having trackpad gestures and easy-to-use multitasking gestures.

This is DEFINITELY worth the premium (although MBA's have come down in price some more, making this an easier decision.)

I do not understand Windows 8 very much. There are "charms", no start menu anymore; it's very difficult to use for me (as someone who was proficient in MSDOS, Windows 3.1, 95, XP, Vista, and 7.)

Edit: For reference- I'm in my late 30's, and I still use Windows at Work; in fact, I RDP to our Windows Server through my MAC- RDP actually works BETTER on my Mac than it ever did on a Windows laptop.
Almost 2 years into using my MBA, it hasn't slowed down a hair, and I can't notice and decrease in my 10+ hour battery life, and I'm a very heavy user.

The Mac just works.
My time is valuable, and I would rather spend it doing the tasks I need vs trying to figure out some new, non-sensical user interface, or waiting for 17 new security updates every week.

Get a Mac.
Never look back.

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SpringMan
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by SpringMan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:50 am

Duplicate Post Deleted
Last edited by SpringMan on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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SpringMan
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by SpringMan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:52 am

As mentioned in my previous post, I have a retina MacBook Pro and a Win 7 PC. I have had no issues yet but have read that many users have problems with the coating on their retina screens. Now I can have something more to worry about. :(
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/16/ret ... d-coating/
I don't think any such issues exist with the MacBook Air.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

Userdc
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Userdc » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:10 am

I have always used windows-based PCs, at home, at school, at work. I have no desire to learn another operating system, so I find macs and tremendously frustrating to use when I am forced to use my wife's macbook.

I have nothing against Apple - I've owned many of their products, including many varieties of iPhone, but there's nothing compelling about a Mac that I can't get with a PC.

My personal PC of choice is the Surface Pro, which is super-portable, gives me the Windows environment I'm used to, is at least as zippy as my wife's MacBook, and does a good enough job of impersonating a tablet that I've managed to restrain myself from ever buying an iPad.

linguini
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by linguini » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:37 am

yosh99 wrote:Discussion threads where Windows users are contemplating a switch to the Mac environment are common. I don't ever remember seeing one from a Mac user thinking about moving to Windows.
I made a reverse-switch of sorts. I figure the reason people like me who switch from Mac to Windows don't make a public show of it is that we already had Windows experience and are able to make an informed decision without asking anyone. The reason I reverse-switched was primarily because I had repeated hardware issues with Apple products. I owned an iBook during college. Its GPU failed because of a hardware defect that affected all iBooks of that generation and I had to replace it with a Macbook after about a year. The case around my Macbook's keyboard started turning blue and peeling off within a few months of purchasing it (again something that apparently affected that entire generation of Macbooks, the plastic in the case interacted with human sweat to cause it to discolor and damage), and then about 2.5-3 years later it stopped being able to charge batteries (I guess maybe a motherboard issue?), at which point it became usable only as a desktop and I decided to replace it with a Windows notebook for home use. Now I use a Macbook Pro at work, and my first one also had a GPU failure after about a year, which my company IT fixed. My coworker had the exact same problem with his MBP, and it turned out that this was yet another known hardware defect affecting Macbook Pros of that generation. Then my MBP had a motherboard failure about a year after that, so my work had to replace that too. And expanding beyond laptops and into iPads, my mother-in-law's lightning cable tip broke off in her iPad's charging port, which yes was her responsibility. But what annoyed me about it is that when we took it to the Apple store, even though it was under warranty, they told us after 2 minutes that it was not fixable and we needed to replace it entirely, but they generously offered us a $50 discount on the previous year's iPad. We declined, took the iPad to work IT, and they pulled the tip out with a tweezers and had it back to us the next day.

So I think maybe I'm just unlucky when it comes to Macs. I always seem to be using that one generation of hardware that has hardware defects, and most other people who use Macs seem to have way fewer issues than I do. I feel as if my experience must be pretty unusual. And really, I am very happy with both OS X and Windows. There are things I like and dislike about both operating systems, and overall I don't really relate to people who find either one significantly more enjoyable to use, because they both seem fine to me. But I just can't justify paying a premium for computers that in my experience have so many hardware issues so soon after purchase.

denovo
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by denovo » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:00 am

As an investor in TSM (Total Stock Market) I encourage you to invest in Apple. Apple is 3 percent of the index and I benefit when you buy their expensive products that rip off consumers.
Last edited by denovo on Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:10 am

denovo wrote:As an investor in TSM (Total Stock Market) I encourage you to invest in Apple. Apple is 3 percent of the inde and I benefit when you buy their expensive products that rip off consumers.

Beyond expensive cords and headphones, which of their products "rip off consumers"?

The $1500 MBA I bought 2 years ago is expensive compared to the $200 Windows machine I have; it also runs a LOT faster, is much sturdier, way more stable, and arguably has saved me way more than the difference in cost, time-wise (no ridiculous constant updates, no crashes, etc...)

I can say the same about my iPad vs cheap android tablets.

denovo
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by denovo » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:14 am

cutterinnj wrote:
denovo wrote:As an investor in TSM (Total Stock Market) I encourage you to invest in Apple. Apple is 3 percent of the inde and I benefit when you buy their expensive products that rip off consumers.

Beyond expensive cords and headphones, which of their products "rip off consumers"?

The $1500 MBA I bought 2 years ago is expensive compared to the $200 Windows machine I have; it also runs a LOT faster, is much sturdier, way more stable, and arguably has saved me way more than the difference in cost, time-wise (no ridiculous constant updates, no crashes, etc...)

I can say the same about my iPad vs cheap android tablets.
You can look at their markups for the phones, tablets, and computers vs Windows products when you do a spec to spec comparision. Apple is significantly higher.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/09/perfe ... -business/

See this
In its quarterly earnings, Apple reported gross margins of 39.9 percent, compared to 37.9 percent in the same quarter a year ago. The company does not break out margins on specific product lines, but considering that the iPhone constituted 65 percent of its revenue, it’s safe to say margins were somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 percent.

Meanwhile, Samsung, Apple’s chief rival in mobile, reported that it sold somewhere between 72.1 million and 75.1 million smartphones in the quarter, but it’s profit margins were far less that Apple’s, falling to 18 percent from 21 percent (EBITDA) for the same period last year.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:18 am

denovo wrote:
cutterinnj wrote:
denovo wrote:As an investor in TSM (Total Stock Market) I encourage you to invest in Apple. Apple is 3 percent of the inde and I benefit when you buy their expensive products that rip off consumers.

Beyond expensive cords and headphones, which of their products "rip off consumers"?

The $1500 MBA I bought 2 years ago is expensive compared to the $200 Windows machine I have; it also runs a LOT faster, is much sturdier, way more stable, and arguably has saved me way more than the difference in cost, time-wise (no ridiculous constant updates, no crashes, etc...)

I can say the same about my iPad vs cheap android tablets.
You can look at their markups for the phones, tablets, and computers vs Windows products when you do a spec to spec comparision. Apple is significantly higher.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/09/perfe ... -business/

See this
In its quarterly earnings, Apple reported gross margins of 39.9 percent, compared to 37.9 percent in the same quarter a year ago. The company does not break out margins on specific product lines, but considering that the iPhone constituted 65 percent of its revenue, it’s safe to say margins were somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 percent.

Meanwhile, Samsung, Apple’s chief rival in mobile, reported that it sold somewhere between 72.1 million and 75.1 million smartphones in the quarter, but it’s profit margins were far less that Apple’s, falling to 18 percent from 21 percent (EBITDA) for the same period last year.

There is, WITHOUT A DOUBT, an "Apple Tax".
The devices are more expensive.
However, I've found them invariably to be more sturdy, and to have minimal (if any) performance degradation over time.

iOS is far more secure and reliable than Android for health care applications, and requires far less maintenance.
I've had similar findings with MacOS vs Windows- virtually no maintenance.

It's also very useful to have an actual "store" I can go to with any and all problems, vs. having to wait on hold to speak with an international support team for mission-critical hardware issues (not that I've had many issues.)

In general, it's more expensive up-front; maintenance-wise, we've found it to be minimal, leading to a very large cost savings.

denovo
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by denovo » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:29 am

cutterinnj wrote:
However, I've found them invariably to be more sturdy, and to have minimal (if any) performance degradation over time.

iOS is far more secure and reliable than Android for health care applications, and requires far less maintenance.


In general, it's more expensive up-front; maintenance-wise, we've found it to be minimal, leading to a very large cost savings.
I don't know what you mean about "maintenance". My Windows and Android devices are always updating patches and other items as necessary in the background on auto-update. I don't notice a thing. Even if Apple's products last 10 or 20 percent longer, but cost double, I am not convinced it's a good deal.

This may offend some , but part of the Apple Tax relates to them dumbing down their software to the lowest common denominator and integrating everything inside their garden to keep you hooked. So you end up buying Apple everything, router, phone, headphones, etc. As a shareholder, I love this. As a consumer, I'll pass.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:43 am

denovo wrote:
cutterinnj wrote:
However, I've found them invariably to be more sturdy, and to have minimal (if any) performance degradation over time.

iOS is far more secure and reliable than Android for health care applications, and requires far less maintenance.


In general, it's more expensive up-front; maintenance-wise, we've found it to be minimal, leading to a very large cost savings.
I don't know what you mean about "maintenance". My Windows and Android devices are always updating patches and other items as necessary in the background on auto-update. I don't notice a thing. Even if Apple's products last 10 or 20 percent longer, but cost double, I am not convinced it's a good deal.

This may offend some , but part of the Apple Tax relates to them dumbing down their software to the lowest common denominator and integrating everything inside their garden to keep you hooked. So you end up buying Apple everything, router, phone, headphones, etc. As a shareholder, I love this. As a consumer, I'll pass.
It's a two way street.
From 1989 to 2013, all I used were DOS/Windows machines.
They were fun to hack with.
The constant updates and bizarre changes got old.(can anyone explain Windows 8 "charms" to me? Or why the Smart menu disappeared? Anyone?)
I still maintain a fleet of about 20 non-Mac machines (plus Windows-based servers) at work; they are in general a huge PITA to deal with- the trackpads are awful, the constant security leaks and crashes are issues as well.

For me, I lift the case of my MBA and use; that's about it.
Once every 6 months or so when a substantial update comes out, it will update in the background, and then restart, but there's otherwise just about zero maintenance.

80% of the time, I'm using the MBA to RDP to one of my Windows servers (and, paradoxically, RDP clients seem to work much BETTER on MacOS; I often have two sessions open at once, and can swipe instantly between two server sessions with the "four finger swipes" on the trackpad) so in a way, I'm using my Mac often as a client for Windows servers, and it really lets me see the relative instabilities inherent on the Windows platform vs the "unix-built but easy to use" Mac.

The ease of use "appliance nature" of the MBA is critical to me; my time is VERY expensive.

BahamaMan
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by BahamaMan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:49 am

My problem with Apple is that you are 'locked' into their hardware. I want a small laptop with a 10 inch screen. Apple does not make one. I think their smallest is about 12 inches. I have hundreds of a different types of Laptops to choose from with a Windows based system. My current Laptop is actually an Asus Tablet, with detachable keyboard and Solid State Drive. I never detach the keyboard and use it as I would a Laptop. And then there is Cost, my current Asus tablet/laptop was about $350.
Last edited by BahamaMan on Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

denovo
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by denovo » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:56 am

cutterinnj wrote:
denovo wrote:
cutterinnj wrote:
However, I've found them invariably to be more sturdy, and to have minimal (if any) performance degradation over time.

iOS is far more secure and reliable than Android for health care applications, and requires far less maintenance.


In general, it's more expensive up-front; maintenance-wise, we've found it to be minimal, leading to a very large cost savings.
I don't know what you mean about "maintenance". My Windows and Android devices are always updating patches and other items as necessary in the background on auto-update. I don't notice a thing. Even if Apple's products last 10 or 20 percent longer, but cost double, I am not convinced it's a good deal.

This may offend some , but part of the Apple Tax relates to them dumbing down their software to the lowest common denominator and integrating everything inside their garden to keep you hooked. So you end up buying Apple everything, router, phone, headphones, etc. As a shareholder, I love this. As a consumer, I'll pass.
It's a two way street.
From 1989 to 2013, all I used were DOS/Windows machines.
They were fun to hack with.
The constant updates and bizarre changes got old.(can anyone explain Windows 8 "charms" to me? Or why the Smart menu disappeared? Anyone?)
I still maintain a fleet of about 20 non-Mac machines (plus Windows-based servers) at work; they are in general a huge PITA to deal with- the trackpads are awful, the constant security leaks and crashes are issues as well.

For me, I lift the case of my MBA and use; that's about it.
Once every 6 months or so when a substantial update comes out, it will update in the background, and then restart, but there's otherwise just about zero maintenance.

80% of the time, I'm using the MBA to RDP to one of my Windows servers (and, paradoxically, RDP clients seem to work much BETTER on MacOS; I often have two sessions open at once, and can swipe instantly between two server sessions with the "four finger swipes" on the trackpad) so in a way, I'm using my Mac often as a client for Windows servers, and it really lets me see the relative instabilities inherent on the Windows platform vs the "unix-built but easy to use" Mac.

The ease of use "appliance nature" of the MBA is critical to me; my time is VERY expensive.
1. I am not a groupie. Don't get me wrong, Windows 8 was a crap. But here's the difference, after I realized I hated Windows 8 (5 mins) I downloaded "Classic Shell" which makes 8 behave like 7. If we lived in Apple's Garden of Dictatorship, this program would have been smashed in 2 days.

2. A lot of the problems with work pc's is because there's so much stuff the employer adds on. I've never had these kinds of bugs or crashes with my personal computer.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

mc7
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by mc7 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:19 pm

FabLab wrote:
topos wrote:
FredL wrote:You cannot install TurboTax on
Doesn't look correct. TurboTax 2014 for Mac is available from the Apple AppStore.
Of course it is available. I've also run TurboTax through the free download program offered to Vanguard's Flagship clients. Additionally, one can purchase the CD version from Amazon (or from whomever) and install it on a Mac hard drive. Runs just fine.

Just more FUD.
You certainly can install TurboTax on Mac. But, having used both, that's not the whole story. Certain features available on Windows aren't available on Mac. For example, on Windows you can right click on a number and get handy options like going to the source of the data. That's really useful, and you couldn't, last I checked, do it on a Mac. Gee, thanks, Intuit.

Impromptu
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Impromptu » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:29 pm

Windows 8 took me only a couple of days to figure out. It isn't very difficult. I can do more with it with programs of my choice. Rather than being locked into using apple products in a conformist manner.

The full Start button will be back on Windows 10. I find it funny that a big complaint is the missing Start button. Remember when it first came out, how much ridicule there was for having to push the Start button to turn it off? Now people can't live without it.

I find Live Tiles a very nice system for my Windows phone. Cortana is an awesome personal assistant. The Microsoft translator is pretty good. I speak English into my phone and it speaks Spanish, German, or many other languages. Reversing the language for a back and forth conversation is easy, too.

My Surface Pro beats any tablet, and most laptops, at least for my activities.

Isn't it nice we live in a capitalist society and can argue about which amazing product we like better?
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:59 pm

denovo wrote:
cutterinnj wrote:
denovo wrote:
cutterinnj wrote:
However, I've found them invariably to be more sturdy, and to have minimal (if any) performance degradation over time.

iOS is far more secure and reliable than Android for health care applications, and requires far less maintenance.


In general, it's more expensive up-front; maintenance-wise, we've found it to be minimal, leading to a very large cost savings.
I don't know what you mean about "maintenance". My Windows and Android devices are always updating patches and other items as necessary in the background on auto-update. I don't notice a thing. Even if Apple's products last 10 or 20 percent longer, but cost double, I am not convinced it's a good deal.

This may offend some , but part of the Apple Tax relates to them dumbing down their software to the lowest common denominator and integrating everything inside their garden to keep you hooked. So you end up buying Apple everything, router, phone, headphones, etc. As a shareholder, I love this. As a consumer, I'll pass.
It's a two way street.
From 1989 to 2013, all I used were DOS/Windows machines.
They were fun to hack with.
The constant updates and bizarre changes got old.(can anyone explain Windows 8 "charms" to me? Or why the Smart menu disappeared? Anyone?)
I still maintain a fleet of about 20 non-Mac machines (plus Windows-based servers) at work; they are in general a huge PITA to deal with- the trackpads are awful, the constant security leaks and crashes are issues as well.

For me, I lift the case of my MBA and use; that's about it.
Once every 6 months or so when a substantial update comes out, it will update in the background, and then restart, but there's otherwise just about zero maintenance.

80% of the time, I'm using the MBA to RDP to one of my Windows servers (and, paradoxically, RDP clients seem to work much BETTER on MacOS; I often have two sessions open at once, and can swipe instantly between two server sessions with the "four finger swipes" on the trackpad) so in a way, I'm using my Mac often as a client for Windows servers, and it really lets me see the relative instabilities inherent on the Windows platform vs the "unix-built but easy to use" Mac.

The ease of use "appliance nature" of the MBA is critical to me; my time is VERY expensive.
1. I am not a groupie. Don't get me wrong, Windows 8 was a crap. But here's the difference, after I realized I hated Windows 8 (5 mins) I downloaded "Classic Shell" which makes 8 behave like 7. If we lived in Apple's Garden of Dictatorship, this program would have been smashed in 2 days.

2. A lot of the problems with work pc's is because there's so much stuff the employer adds on. I've never had these kinds of bugs or crashes with my personal computer.

I think that if you mission critical applications that only work on PC's (which are probably becoming less and less in the distributive web-based world) a Mac makes less sense. There are programs like Parallels, that allow you to run a Windows instance on it, but that seems clunky to me.

For me, I need Excel; Mac Excel is currently inferior to Windows for the statistics tools I'm using; I RDP into work to use the copy there.
My work-based tools also reside on the Server, so I obviously use those windows apps as well. 10 years from now, I think platform agnosticism will be significantly higher (my brother already swears by various Linux incarnations- he refuses to touch Windows- too unstable for him.)

Funny thing at the office- as much as you try to restrict what people do on your server, the Windows hooligans are always able to sneak SOMETHING by; case in point, about 2 weeks ago, all of our web home pages got reset to "ask.com" because of an extra "click" by someone.
If we were within the "walled garden" of Apple, something like this would've never happened, and I wouldn't have incurred additional IT costs.

cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:08 pm

Impromptu wrote:Windows 8 took me only a couple of days to figure out. It isn't very difficult. I can do more with it with programs of my choice. Rather than being locked into using apple products in a conformist manner.

The full Start button will be back on Windows 10. I find it funny that a big complaint is the missing Start button. Remember when it first came out, how much ridicule there was for having to push the Start button to turn it off? Now people can't live without it.

I find Live Tiles a very nice system for my Windows phone. Cortana is an awesome personal assistant. The Microsoft translator is pretty good. I speak English into my phone and it speaks Spanish, German, or many other languages. Reversing the language for a back and forth conversation is easy, too.

My Surface Pro beats any tablet, and most laptops, at least for my activities.

Isn't it nice we live in a capitalist society and can argue about which amazing product we like better?

I'll admit that I don't get Windows 8. It looks like MS thinks EVERYONE has a touchscreen/Tablet?
Every time I hit the "windows" key on the 4-5 Win 8 machines I've tried, it goes alternatively to the "charm" screen and then to the "main screen", but no longer has a start button nor an easy way to enter commands (The command prompt I would often use in Win95/XP/even Vista seems somehow gimped.)

I also absolutely HATE MS Support for their Server products;
case in point, we have a critical application which, as of 3 years ago, only supported Server 2003 (MS verification processes are VERY cumbersome.)
Now, MS announced that they are ENDING support for Server 2003 COMPLETELY on July 15th, and there is no easy way to just "upgrade" to a newer version; we have to get an entirely new server.
Of course, the product we use (like many others) now only supports Server 2008, as 2011 is "too new" and many products don't yet support it;
I'm sure we'll be in the same dilemma a few years from now.

On the consumer side, MS has made transferring data incredibly cumbersome; they used to have a (decent) data transfer tool, which they completely disavowed with Win 8.1. Their solution is to send (2 Terabytes?) to their cloud and copy over to the new machine. They even completely ended support for a "transfer cable" they used to sell (like, literally, a year ago.)

On the plus side, the $200 touchscreen Dell I bought my wife works relatively well.
OpenOffice and Firefox meets her needs just fine. She has the usual "windows hiccups" but she uses no mission critical apps, so we're ok with it.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by linguini » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:20 pm

cutterinnj wrote:I'll admit that I don't get Windows 8. It looks like MS thinks EVERYONE has a touchscreen/Tablet?
Every time I hit the "windows" key on the 4-5 Win 8 machines I've tried, it goes alternatively to the "charm" screen and then to the "main screen", but no longer has a start button nor an easy way to enter commands (The command prompt I would often use in Win95/XP/even Vista seems somehow gimped.)
I'm not really clear on the terminology of Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure the charms menu is what pulls in from the right side if you hit win-C or put the mouse in the top right corner of the screen. The windows key alone brings you to the start screen, which is sort of similar to the start menu in Windows 7. If you want to get to the command prompt on Windows 8.1, you can just hit windows-S to open search, type "cmd", then enter. Works almost identically to spotlight in OS X. Or I think if you're on the start screen you can just type "cmd" and enter, but I never really use the start screen. I'm not really sure what you mean when you say the built in command prompt is gimped in Windows 8, though, because I have only used it in earnest once on Windows 8 and that was for a pretty rare use case. From a cursory glance, it looks pretty similar to how it was the previous through iterations of Windows. Generally I will use cygwin for command line software development on a Windows machine.

On a related note, I don't like either the start screen or the start menu in Windows. Looking at big splash screens (start screen) or digging into massive hierarchical menus (start menu) is too inefficient for me. I prefer to use Windows 8.1 the same way I use OS X, which has neither a start screen nor a start menu. Regardless of which of the two OS's I am using, I pin applications I use a lot in the bottom of the desktop so I can open them easily, access system search from the top right for things I don't use a lot (or use win-s or cmd-space as a shortcut), and switch between open applications using alt-tab/cmd-tab or by clicking on the application logos at the bottom of the desktop. If you have passing familiarity with both Windows 8.1 and recent iterations of OS X, you can actually achieve a very similar workflow on both of them for normal use. I think what Windows 8 did that most troubled people was disrupt the desktop + start menu approach on Windows that people were already familiar with, but if you are a frequent Mac user like me who is used to the desktop + spotlight + dock approach, then you will probably be able to adapt fairly easily to the desktop + search + taskbar approach on Windows if you approach it with an open mind.

At this point, I am perfectly happy with either operating system. There are always things that I miss when I'm going from one OS to the other for personal use, though. When I am on Windows, I miss OS X's terminal without having to install cygwin and the way the dock shrinks logo sizes to fit more applications on it. When I am on OS X, I miss Windows' window snapping when you drag a window to the side of the desktop and the more intuitive alt-tab behavior (OS X's cmd-tab and cmd-` is counterintuitive and lacks same-app window selection). But these seem like fairly minor complaints.

I don't really have any opinion on server products because I have never used a Windows server. I have only ever used Linux or Solaris for anything other than local testing.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by yangtui » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:22 pm

Apple machines are great if you want them to just work and you have no interest in tinkering/optimizing your software and hardware. If you like optimizing systems and having more overall control of your machine than PCs are the way to go. The first thing I do when I get a new laptop is replace a bunch of the internal components and install my own choice OS. Most people have no interest in doing any of this and should probably just go with a Mac.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by DDMP20 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:54 am

[off topic comments removed by admin alex]
"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens." -Thomas Jefferson

Dismayed
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Dismayed » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:42 pm

I opted for an Apple laptop myself. That way I can walk into an Apple store and work with an English-speaking tech if I have problems. I owned a Dell at one point. Never again! Too much wasted time talking with techs in India, and mailing items in for service.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you do pay for what you get.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by BahamaMan » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:46 pm

Dismayed wrote:I opted for an Apple laptop myself. That way I can walk into an Apple store and work with an English-speaking tech if I have problems. I owned a Dell at one point. Never again! Too much wasted time talking with techs in India, and mailing items in for service.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you do pay for what you get.
Yup, if you don't understand computers, Apple is probably the way to go. As you said, easier to get support locally and a less complicated OS.
Last edited by BahamaMan on Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Van
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Van » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:52 pm

I've had a MacBookPro laptop for more than 5 years. This is the perfect machine! I could not be more satisfied.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by fatima526 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:25 pm

davebo wrote:The thing that throws me a little bit is how little storage you get with an Apple vs. windows based desktop.
Need to know more about your current usage of storage (internal and external) to give you more guidance.

I have used Mac since the MacSE in late '80s. My current is a late 2011 refurbished MacBookPro from the Apple Online Store, to which I swapped out the included 500GB hard disk and 4GB RAM myself for an 256GB solid state drive and maxed out the RAM to 16GB. Performs very well for a 3+ year old machine. I use it for spreadsheet, web browsing, email, and Apple's Logic Pro music software.

I recommend you always buy the AppleCare extended warranty, regardless of new or refurbished. My previous refurb MacBookPro died 1 month before its 3 year AppleCare expired. I dropped it off at a Genius Bar for diagnosis on a Thurs, and it was shipped it back to my house following Tues. The problem was the logic board, so they replaced that, and the included note said 'we also noticed your battery was not holding a charge well, so we replaced that too" ... all covered under the AppleCare.

Like the other reply said ... just get the Mac!

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Impromptu » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:38 am

My experience with Dell's service warranty on my Window's laptop was excellent. I bought a Dell device in Seattle, moved to St. Louis, had a small issue, they came to my university and fixed it between classes for me within a day of me reporting it. It was very convenient. I didn't need any subsequent fixes. That laptop lasted me over 7 years, with 4 of those years it being tossed in my backpack as I bicycled to school.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by marc515 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:58 am

We got our 15" Macbook Pro a few days ago, and all I can say is, it's fantastic. Being as I am retired, I have no need to go back to a Windows based PC, nor do I want to now. Our Windows PC was a Dell XPS 15, and while It is a really nice PC, the MBP and OSX just works so nice. We also have iPhones and iPads, and the integration is beautiful.

All I can say is I love our MBP!

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by htdrag11 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:05 pm

Guess I'm agnostic.

I've a used Dell Win7 XPS laptop that I dualboot with Ubuntu, a Win8.1 HP Stream 13 laptop strictly for financial transactions, and a hand-me-down MBP for fun.

My phone is Android based (I'm cheap) and a Samsung Pro Tablet 10.1 (16x10); wife has an iPad Air (4x3). She used to make more money than me. :mrgreen:

Vive la difference.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by sunny_socal » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:31 pm

Another satisfied MBP owner here! :D I finally made the jump after decades of railing against Apple/Mac/OSX all while dealing with the instability of Windows and the inconsistency of Linux.

Oh I've used high end laptops, but in the end the all succumb to Windows cluttering them up and slowing things down beyond repair. It's just a 'feature' of Windows. Happens on my work laptop too, although it's supported by an army of qualified engineers. Happens although my work laptop is SSD and has gobs of memory. It just begins to run like molasses.

One year into my MBP experience and it feels as fast as the day I bought it. It wakes up as quickly as my smartphone, while my windows computers feel like a gas pump "Slide your card... [Wait]... Authorizing....[wait]... Enter your zip code... [Wait]... Select your gas type...."

mptfan
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by mptfan » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:59 pm

suburbandad wrote:How about a Chromebook?
For most users, chromebooks are more than sufficient.
I agree. I've been using a Chromebook at home now for almost a year, and I love it. No more Microsoft for me.

cutterinnj
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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:50 pm

mptfan wrote:
suburbandad wrote:How about a Chromebook?
For most users, chromebooks are more than sufficient.
I agree. I've been using a Chromebook at home now for almost a year, and I love it. No more Microsoft for me.
These seem like very easy to use machines. If work didn't buy the MBA for me, I would likely get one of these.
The Chromebook seems like a fulfilled promise of the failed "net machines" from years ago.
I hear one minor issue is that they're hard to use off line (google docs and the like), but they are making strides in rectifying this.
For $150, you get a fully fledged machine which can do web, basic video, and office functionality, with minimal setup or fuss.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by cutterinnj » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:52 pm

BahamaMan wrote:
Dismayed wrote:I opted for an Apple laptop myself. That way I can walk into an Apple store and work with an English-speaking tech if I have problems. I owned a Dell at one point. Never again! Too much wasted time talking with techs in India, and mailing items in for service.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you do pay for what you get.
Yup, if you don't understand computers, Apple is probably the way to go. As you said, easier to get support locally and a less complicated OS.
If you understand computers and want something that works the moment you open the case, lasts 10 hours without being plugged in 2 years after you bought it, and rarely reboots/makes you "click" a bunch of times to install "updates", I'd argue that Apple is also a good way to go.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by AllenSmith » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:15 pm

Try an Apple. You won't be disappointed.

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Re: Laptop: Windows based vs. Apple

Post by Ruprecht » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:51 pm

This seemed the best old thread to resurrect for my two cents.

I have only used microsoft, beginning with DOS (I actually resisted Windows 3.1, didn't like the loss of control).

I built my own PC using windows XP, 9 years ago. Four HDD bays, three case fans ( I'm counting the fans pushing through the HDD bays), a hot swappable bay for using internal SATA drives as if they were floppies. I manage my own low-tech website with my own HTML and javascript programming using notepad. I'm no computer genius but I most certainly do know my way around a computer. I hate the way MacOS works. Makes no sense. But ever since Windows 10 came out, my Windows 7 setup keeps crashing. I don't think it's an accident. Most recent crash, computer is working fine, start button has that symbol that lets you know updates will occur with next reboot. I have a few moments so decide to just get it over with and reboot. As it powers down, I get those screens letting me know that updates are being installed. On restart, nothing. System restore fails multiple restore points, so I have to reinstall Windows all over again. Reinstallation goes fine --there is no hardware problem. I long ago migrated all data to a separate drive and backup frequently to multiple drives (thus the multiple HDD setup), so I still have my data. But I am sick of Microsoft doing this to me. Screw 'em, I'll figure out how to work a mac. In the time it would have taken to reinstall all my Windows programs, I hooked up a Macbook Pro to my dual monitors and brought my data drive in via a hot-swappable standalone USB3 unit. I am through with Windows. If Apple starts doing this crap to me one day, then I'll move to Linux. Good god I hate microsoft. I'll never forgive them for Vista, and now it's happening all over again...

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