Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

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mobi999
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Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by mobi999 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:21 am

Hi Bogleheads!!
I am into car buying process and it seems like a whole science. Your insight will be helpful as always

What is typical dealership documentation fee in MA ? I visited toyota dealer in woburn for a new corolla and he put 495 as dealer doc fee in quote. It seems like too much...
1) What should be typical fee in Massachusetts....or Boston area?
2)is 495 dealership doc fee is really high ??
3) is dealership fee negotiable ?
4)what else to watch out in quotes ? it seems like very shady
My FICO score is 740 and credit history is only 1.5 years old. Dealer is offering me 3.99 APR.
5)Is this fair enough APR?
6)Should I check bank auto loan ??
7)Shoud I go out and buy car all myself instead of financing; Its 18000 with tax etc inclusive and I can easily afford it to pay in cash but does it makes financial sense in boggle terms ? building credit history etc???
I will appreciate your feedback.

The Wizard
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by The Wizard » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:13 am

Ford dealers here are quoting in the $300s, up to $395.
Dealer loan rate is too high, should be able to get 2% or less at a credit union.
Perhaps pay 50% cash and finance the rest at low rate?
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:48 am

I bought my Jeep last spring. Doc fees between 10 or so dealers varied from $295 to $395.

I have found that getting the Doc Fee is very easy. Call the dealer and ask them. They will grudgingly tell you (I can tell that they're not excited to tell me), but all immediately gave me their number.

When you do your due diligence (get tru car number, send emails with exactly what you want etc) Know what the Doc Fee is. Get the price and add the doc fee. By law, they have to charge everyone the same Doc Fee in Massachusetts. However, they can and will drop the car price below their actual cost and add back the doc fee to bring it back up.

If you want to get into fine detail, ask what is included in the cost of the vehicle and the Doc Fee. My Jeep came with a free state inspection ($29 at the time). Sometimes, something of actual value is included with the fee.....sometimes it is just profit.

You can expect that you will pay a "runner's fee" to register the car, even when the dealer is a Drive dealer and registers it by pressing a few buttons and taking a license plate from a stack of them, sent to them in advance by the Mass RMV. I have had some dealers put a set charge for registration (embedded with the runner's fee) assuming a new plate. Since plates do wear out, since I'm paying for a new registration (more money than a transfer), I get a new plate every time.
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magellan
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by magellan » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:10 am

It would probably be worth it to search the forum for new car buying advice to get the full scoop.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124638

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=96946


In the woburn MA area, you have lots of options and I suspect you'd do well using an Internet based car buying approach. This involves using dealer websites to find the exact car you want at 5-6 nearby dealers and sending an email asking for a quote for the exact VIN. Some may not respond, buy usually several will and this should result in a fair out the door cost without much hassle or grief.

Dealers are creative in making up extra fees and these are completely irrelevant in the big picture. Dealers use these fees as a way to tack on extra cost to uneducated buyers who think they've negotiated a great price but don't know the magic phrase that prevents this infamous dealer profit maximizing trick. When negotiating with a dealer, you must always state that you are talking about the "out the door" cost of the vehicle. This is code for the cost after all made-up dealer fees and it's jargon dealers understand and can't ignore without facing fraud charges from state consumer protection agencies.

Financing the car through the dealer adds complexity since dealers make a much of their profit through financing and other add-ons. You generally want to avoid these unless there's some sort of manufacturer special that you can't turn into cash back. As others have said, overall you're likely to do better financing through a local credit union. If you finance through the dealer you have to read the fine print very carefully since these financing arrangements can sometimes have surprises like early repayment fees, etc.

Please update this thread with how it goes so others can benefit from what you learn. There are recent reports of places where the Internet strategy doesn't work anymore because dealers have all decided not to play along and have collectively decided it's better for them to force customers to come to the showroom to negotiate, where they're easier marks.

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magellan
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by magellan » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:25 am

Also, you may want to also consider dealers in southern NH. Most of them are experienced with selling to MA residents and I believe many will handle MA registration. You'll have to double check or make two trips to complete the sale, get the registration done, then pick up the car. Registration costs and taxes will be the same whether you buy the car in MA or NH.

Basically, you want to locate all the Toyota dealers within your driving range (maybe 60 miles) and contact any that show a car you want in their online inventory. Be sure your contact message includes the VIN from their online inventory and the phrase "out the door price." In addition to the VIN, I usually include the vehicle's MSRP and included options in the quote request to help prevent mistakes.

The dealer you buy from doesn't matter in terms of getting the car serviced. I think toyota still offers free routine maintenance for the first 2 years. You can get this done at any dealer, regardless of where you buy the car.

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SpringMan
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by SpringMan » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:09 am

Paid $90 doc fee on my Silverado pickup and felt that was too much. Paid cash and used a GMS (out of stock) discount which is cut and dried, no haggling on vehicle price. Never thought to ask about their doc fee. I beleive doc fees are negotiable. I did get the dealer to throw in a free factory installed bedliner that was already installed in the vehicle. Taking off the bedliner would have left some screw holes in the sheet metal so that was out of question.
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Toons
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by Toons » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:13 am

"he put 495 as dealer doc fee in quote."

Dealers charge various prices for documentation fees in our area,,,they will make money somewhere in the transacton. :happy
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Spirit Rider
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:34 am

As Magellan said, the only thing that matters is the out-the-door cost. On my last vehicle purchase, Doc fees varied from $0 to $600. Some dealers will have this and other fees pre-printed on the purchase and sales agreement. They will tell you that they can't change the fees, but that doesn't matter. If they have $500 in fees, they can just reduce the price by that $500 to match a dealer who has $0 in fees.

Also, some dealers (although far less than before) will add BS dealer add-ons to all vehicles on the lot. These can take many forms; fabric protection, VIN etching, etc.. Essentially, anything with negligible cost and massive markup. Stick to your out-the-door price and refuse to get blindsided by any dealer added markup schemes.

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8foot7
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by 8foot7 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:03 am

+2 to the out the door cost. One dealer balked at me for continuing to talk about the doc fee, and I told him he could make the doc fee $20,000 for all he wanted to and sell me the car for $1,000. It's the bottom line price that matters and breaking out a doc fee separately is a mechanism for inventing profit. Out the door cost only.

bryantwfox
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by bryantwfox » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:13 pm

Always always always always go to a bank/credit union to price auto loans if you will use them to purchase a car.

Indirect auto programs from any bank/cu that you get through a dealership will 99% of the time have a dealer markup or other type of finance premium to incentivize the dealership to sell the bank/cu your loan.

mobi999
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by mobi999 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:46 pm

One more thing what is this 100 USD nitrogen fee ?

The same dealer who gave me a quote is showing price on edmunds Price Prmoise as 500 less and without any rebate. Lets see if they honour it if I goto them with this edmunds price promise certificate. I am sure the sale person will be really piss off from me.

As for Internet shopping what I am seeing is that Dealers are not willing to give quote( as we now understand out of showroom quote) and asking me to come down to showroom. I have even told them I do not need to test drive this vehicle as I have driven this model many many times just give me a complete quote so When I come we simply finalize/sign the deal. The response becomes muted. I will update on this as well...

As for financing I now understand that dealer have some incentive; the way he jumped from 4.99 to 3.99 shows he has some margin in decision.

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magellan
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by magellan » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:26 pm

mobi999 wrote:As for Internet shopping what I am seeing is that Dealers are not willing to give quote( as we now understand out of showroom quote) and asking me to come down to showroom. I have even told them I do not need to test drive this vehicle as I have driven this model many many times just give me a complete quote so When I come we simply finalize/sign the deal. The response becomes muted. I will update on this as well...

How many contact emails did you send out and which dealers specifically didn't respond? When I got my Toyota in the same area as you, every dealer I contacted by email for a quote on a specific vehicle responded with an out the door price by email. This included dealers in Woburn, Danvers, Nashua, Salem NH, and a couple more I can't remember.

In google maps, get a map of the boston area (or your home area). Type "Toyota Dealers" and go through the dealers shown on the map one by one, clicking each dealer website in a new window and checking inventory.

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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by KyleAAA » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:30 pm

Ignore all the fees and just negotiate on the out-the-door price. If they want to sell the car for $1 and charge you a $19,999 documentation fee, it's no concern of yours. All you care about is the total, not the line items. New car sales in general is a very low-profit business, so dealers have gotten pretty good at confusing people with all these random fees. The best way to win that game is just not to play.

mobi999
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by mobi999 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:24 am

magellan : I went back to the post you have forwarded from this forum by denovo and started reading it like an engineering manual. I totally agree with his approach. The mistake I am making is giving out my number and than a dozen of calls which all boils down to when can you visit and test drive and then just an initial quote. I should make an excel sheet named down all dealers/ internet sale person/vin with quotes and deal only on email. And keep this financing issue out of discussion from car dealership.

Hug401k
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by Hug401k » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:38 am

Check out the local credit unions for financing. We had the cash to buy the car, but it's hard to resist the 1% car loan offer the local credit union was offering last year. This is in the Boston area.

mobi999
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by mobi999 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:19 pm

Credit union is new concept for me. How to select one ? geographical proximity and rates being two criterias ? Is there any ranking and caveats ?

wrongfunds
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:30 pm

When you say "out the door" price, is the mass sales tax etc on top of it or is that included when discussing numbers with the dealer?

The Wizard
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by The Wizard » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:31 pm

mobi999 wrote:Credit union is new concept for me. How to select one ? geographical proximity and rates being two criterias ? Is there any ranking and caveats ?

They are all over the place.
Some are restricted based on employment with a certain company or agency.
Others are public.
Just google around and see what you find.
Then check car loans rates that match your situation...
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The Wizard
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by The Wizard » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:32 pm

wrongfunds wrote:When you say "out the door" price, is the mass sales tax etc on top of it or is that included when discussing numbers with the dealer?

No.
That's separate when you register the car.
Especially since one could buy a new car in NH and then register in MA...
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autonomy
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by autonomy » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:44 pm

mobi999 wrote:One more thing what is this 100 USD nitrogen fee ?

The same dealer who gave me a quote is showing price on edmunds Price Prmoise as 500 less and without any rebate. Lets see if they honour it if I goto them with this edmunds price promise certificate. I am sure the sale person will be really piss off from me.

As for Internet shopping what I am seeing is that Dealers are not willing to give quote( as we now understand out of showroom quote) and asking me to come down to showroom. I have even told them I do not need to test drive this vehicle as I have driven this model many many times just give me a complete quote so When I come we simply finalize/sign the deal. The response becomes muted. I will update on this as well...

As for financing I now understand that dealer have some incentive; the way he jumped from 4.99 to 3.99 shows he has some margin in decision.


Nitrogen fee? Is that like for filling tires with nitrogen, because it sure sounds like a ripoff. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen. The dealer you went to sounds like they want to run you in circles and confuse you until you pay them their prices.

P.S. I believe I paid $75 'doc' fee the last time I bought a new car, but other posters are right - out the door is what counts (don't include tax or registration fees - actual registration with the RMV, those you can't negotiate)

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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by westie » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:49 pm

First decide if and how much you want to finance and with who. I would recommend a credit union or institution outside the dealership. That's their last and sometimes best opportunity to upsell or confuse the transaction.

Sounds like your getting the runaround. Call the local Toyota dealers , ask for their internet salesperson, tell them your ready to buy a car today, and ask for their out-the-door price for your specific vehicle. They know what that means, but never hurts to remind them that is TOTAL cost. I wouldn't worry so much about inventory because local dealers can get you a specific color from other local dealers if they want to sell you a car. I suggest creating a new email account just for car buying otherwise you'll be inundated with junk mail for months on a primary email account. Good luck.

Dava1954
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by Dava1954 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Hi, I have been reading all the replies about car dealership Doc Fee charges. Expressway Toyota in Boston charges $399.00 advertises $399.00, charged me $399.00 on a 2013 Corolla I bought from them last year, charged me $399.00 on a new 2016 Corolla on 3/15/16 after trading in my 2013. BUT yet charged my girlfriend $1154.00 for her Doc Fee on a leased 2016 Rav4 LE. That is not a misprint the charge is $1154.00, this is criminal. She is inexperienced in buying a new car and has no idea about car prices and fees. She was also charged an inflated car price for the 2016 Rav4 LE w/ no options it even has a manual drivers seat and headlights.it's the Base model with a MSRP of $26,740.00 but yet they charged her $29,250.00 that's $2,510.00 over the MSRP which is insane. That price is just on the supposed agreed on price of the car with no other fees or taxes. She was also offered a deal that if she purchased the Gap Protection for a price of $895.00 that they would include the Protection Package and the Appearance Package both with a price value of $750.00. Well you guessed it they still charged her the $1500.00 for the 2 packages which she would have never bought if she had to pay for them.The reason why we went to Expressway Toyota is that after going to 10-15 other Toyota dealers last year and being jerked all around waiting hours at the dealerships just to be turned down, Expressway was the only dealer to approve my loan for the 2013 Corolla that I purchased last year and I was told after a year of making and not being late on my payments I would have a good chance of getting the brand new Corolla I wanted to begin with.I have poor, terrible credit and felt obligated and wanted to be loyal towards them for helping me out big time last year, so there was a lot of trust here, BIG mistake. Can anyone please help with any advice or point us in the right direction to do something about this kind of a Rip Off.
Last edited by Dava1954 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wellfleet
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by Wellfleet » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:28 pm

I bought a Corolla LE last year and contacted 8 dealers including the one you mentioned.

The best out the door price I got was $17,400 paying cash. the best finance offer was for $18,000 out the door with 0% financing.

Fees ranged from $450-800.

As for the Expressway Toyota poster, if you signed and took delivery of the car, I think you are out of luck. Use it as a lesson learned. We bought my wife's first car on the same day I got pricing from 3 dealers. We probably overpaid but lesson learned and welcome to the Forum.

moshe
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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by moshe » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:08 am

mobi999 wrote:Credit union is new concept for me. How to select one ? geographical proximity and rates being two criterias ? Is there any ranking and caveats ?


If you are a AAA member you can usually get a competitive rate via their preferred financial institution. After 30 days, I did a car refinance through their recommended credit union and lowered my rate significantly. We closed at the local AAA office. No Hassle. One call and it was done.

~Moshe
My money has no emotions. ~Moshe | | I'm the world's greatest expert on my own opinion. ~Bruce Williams

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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by jdb » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:09 pm

I am digressing here, but in my opinion one of reasons almost 400,000 people made reservations for the Tesla Model 3. Imagine not only getting rid of dealer doc fees but getting rid of all dealer markups, in fact getting rid of dealer itself, like buying iMac online from Apple, only this time is world class car. Just ruminating. Though do have two reservations.

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Re: Typical Dealership Documentation Fee in MA??

Post by protagonist » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:22 am

Old thread, but I just came across this, which might prove useful. http://www.dowd.com/2012/02/29/massachu ... ment-fees/

According to that reference, "There is a statute that deals with this practice by dealers. It says: “Dealers who procure, or assist purchasers to procure, certificates of title for vehicles sold by them, may charge the purchasers for such services not more than five dollars for each transaction.” (M.G.L. c. 90D, §33)"

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