Rich dad, poor dad
Rich dad, poor dad
Someone I spoke to told me about this book by Robert Kiyosaki, and it sounds "promising" but I noticed his investing advice goes against what bogleheads taught me.. I'm sure there are threads about him on here... I read 2 of his books with his quadrants and rich dad, poor dad and halfway through the third book about investing.. should I just stop reading? Although he made me feel like crap about being an employee for a paycheck, he also made me wonder if this is all i'm going to do with my life for the next 40 years and just work for someone who pays just enough for me to stay. The idea of having your own businesses run under you sounds more enticing.. someone talk me out of reducing saving in my retirement accounts and buying assets that generate passive income.. such as real estate and properties.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Is there someone you really hate that you could give the book to?
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Haha! That's hilarious. Hmm... maybe my Ex gf but I wouldn't say I hate her lol.bberris wrote:Is there someone you really hate that you could give the book to?
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
If I didn't know what I know I'd probably think it was a good book. His seminars are known for teaching people how to make millions......just pay him $15,000 to find out how.
“Never ask anyone for their opinion, forecast, or recommendation. Just ask them what they have—or don’t have—in their portfolio.” -Taleb
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
He is on my Most Loathed Authors list, as I find his advice actively toxic, starting-date-dependent, and smug to boot. Investing in property is not for everyone, and is not a get rich quick ticket, else more pros would do exactly the same.Beat The Street wrote:If I didn't know what I know I'd probably think it was a good book. His seminars are known for teaching people how to make millions......just pay him $15,000 to find out how.
I felt vindicated when I saw a joint seminar with him and Donald Trump.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Think about the fact that he never really made any money until he started writing books and "teaching" classes. In fact, I think he found himself in bankruptcy at least once.
There's plenty of info on the internet that will make you question this guy. His books are similar to tearing you down emotionally and then bringing you back up, not unlike a cult. I have some friends that took him seriously and they about wound up broke, but for the housing bailout. Not that buying too much real estate always winds up badly, but it's not a sure thing that is all fun and games.
Good luck,
JT
There's plenty of info on the internet that will make you question this guy. His books are similar to tearing you down emotionally and then bringing you back up, not unlike a cult. I have some friends that took him seriously and they about wound up broke, but for the housing bailout. Not that buying too much real estate always winds up badly, but it's not a sure thing that is all fun and games.
Good luck,
JT
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Stock over the long return provide higher total return than real estate does. However the majority of returns from real estate come from rent (passive income) and the majority of returns these days in U.S. stocks come from price appreciation (due to stock buy backs and growth in earnings). There it may seem that investing in real estate is a good idea, however it is not. If it was everyone would buy real estate, it is on average a lot less volatile than stocks. I would stick to investing in my retirement account. Just my 2 cents.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Stop reading that book.
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
There are web sites devoted to debunking the book and the claims of the author. I'm too lazy to go look them up. You can google if you are interested. But there are folks out there who have put him and the book under the microscope and who question most of his major claims and strategies and question the veracity of most of his anecdotes.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
There is at least a small baby in that bath water you folks are throwing out. Particularly, on a macro level.
1, Knowing why people are employees (seeking security) why self employed (seeking autonomy) etc.
2. Understanding viscerally your relationship with the government as your business partner (employee vs business owner)
3. Value and different ways to develop passive income
4. Real estate being inferior to stocks based on average returns. I think it's possible to be good at picking real estate as opposed to picking stocks (regression to the mean)
5. Learning the value of developing relationships to create businesses is essential.
6. The value of honesty (I don't know if he personally is or not)
7. Calculated risk taking is necessary.
8. Making money not based on the number of hours you work
So I think there is some benefit there.
Personally I had a foot in all 4 categories (employee, self employed, business owner and investor) real estate for me was far and away a much better return than the buy and hold stock strategy. I am not bad mouthing bogleheads I now invest like one. Mainly because it's easier once you have enough resources.
Now when he gets into specifics it gets a little foggy and that investment book is awful. I did find value in the first two book and have not listen/read him 15 years. Selling books is pretty good passive income gig.
Go ahead rip me apart!!!
1, Knowing why people are employees (seeking security) why self employed (seeking autonomy) etc.
2. Understanding viscerally your relationship with the government as your business partner (employee vs business owner)
3. Value and different ways to develop passive income
4. Real estate being inferior to stocks based on average returns. I think it's possible to be good at picking real estate as opposed to picking stocks (regression to the mean)
5. Learning the value of developing relationships to create businesses is essential.
6. The value of honesty (I don't know if he personally is or not)
7. Calculated risk taking is necessary.
8. Making money not based on the number of hours you work
So I think there is some benefit there.
Personally I had a foot in all 4 categories (employee, self employed, business owner and investor) real estate for me was far and away a much better return than the buy and hold stock strategy. I am not bad mouthing bogleheads I now invest like one. Mainly because it's easier once you have enough resources.
Now when he gets into specifics it gets a little foggy and that investment book is awful. I did find value in the first two book and have not listen/read him 15 years. Selling books is pretty good passive income gig.
Go ahead rip me apart!!!
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
IMO, the Rich Dad books have all the utility of a pet rock. Lots of platitudes with no specifics. Some of the points are just plain false such as telling readers that a house is not an asset. Whaat?
A lot of people make gobs of money investing in real estate. No question about it. However it's a whole lot different than investing in stocks. Once you buy property, it becomes a business that either consumes your time or requires hiring a property manager to watch it for you for a fee. It's also usually not nearly as well-diversified as stocks/bonds. One reason many have done well in real estate is because they leveraged their investments and it paid off. However, it's important to realize that the leverage doors swing both ways. Leveraging left many a real estate investor bankrupt.
Many years ago, I heard a story about two young real estate investors who were talking. The first asked the second, "What would you do if you made millions in real estate?
The second guy thought about it and replied, "I'd take my wife on a round-the-world cruise, buy a real nice home, invest the rest and smell the roses. What would you do?"
The first one replied, "Well, I guess I'd keep investing in real estate until I went broke."
A lot of people make gobs of money investing in real estate. No question about it. However it's a whole lot different than investing in stocks. Once you buy property, it becomes a business that either consumes your time or requires hiring a property manager to watch it for you for a fee. It's also usually not nearly as well-diversified as stocks/bonds. One reason many have done well in real estate is because they leveraged their investments and it paid off. However, it's important to realize that the leverage doors swing both ways. Leveraging left many a real estate investor bankrupt.
Many years ago, I heard a story about two young real estate investors who were talking. The first asked the second, "What would you do if you made millions in real estate?
The second guy thought about it and replied, "I'd take my wife on a round-the-world cruise, buy a real nice home, invest the rest and smell the roses. What would you do?"
The first one replied, "Well, I guess I'd keep investing in real estate until I went broke."
Best wishes, |
Michael |
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Invest your time actively and your money passively.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
bberris wrote:Is there someone you really hate that you could give the book to?
Thanks for making me chuckle.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Here is the best take-down of Kiyosaki. John T. Reed is someone who is famous for giving frank advice on real estate, but please don't click on the rest of his site! Sometime in the last few years he became a goldbug and inflation doomer but his real estate stuff is still good.texasdiver wrote:There are web sites devoted to debunking the book and the claims of the author. I'm too lazy to go look them up. You can google if you are interested. But there are folks out there who have put him and the book under the microscope and who question most of his major claims and strategies and question the veracity of most of his anecdotes.
If you click on it, you'll see he enumerates a list of terrible things that Kioysaki says
http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.htmlRich Dad, Poor Dad is one of the dumbest financial advice books I have ever read. It contains many factual errors and numerous extremely unlikely accounts of events that supposedly occurred.
Kiyosaki is a salesman and a motivational speaker. He has no financial expertise and won’t disclose his supposed real estate or other investment success.
Rich Dad, Poor Dad contains much wrong advice, much bad advice, some dangerous advice, and virtually no good advice.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
His books are designed to get people excited but his story is false and he does make a lot of money but not by owning all the real estate he claims to own. He makes money by selling his books and his expensive seminars. Following the advice of John Bogle may not feel as sexy but it's a lot more real. This is just one of many things on the internet showing what a scam artist he is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6nT0oyPt8 - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6feHB0AE4 - Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iimvyVCEGA - Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6nT0oyPt8 - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6feHB0AE4 - Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iimvyVCEGA - Part 3
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
RDPD is far from the worst financial book I've ever read. There are a few redeeming concepts in it although JTR's critique is well-worth reading.
I'm not sure why Bogleheads get so worked up about it. Perhaps because the employee>entrepreneur ratio here is quite high and most people prefer stocks to real estate investments. Probably just because it has very little in the way of specifics.
The problem with employee jobs, even high-paying ones, is #1 they don't scale- you can only operate on one heart at a time and # 2 they don't bring in income unless you're working. Doesn't mean you can't do quite well financially with a typical job, a good savings rate, and a reasonable investing plan. But you'll never be a billionaire working for someone else.
I'm not sure why Bogleheads get so worked up about it. Perhaps because the employee>entrepreneur ratio here is quite high and most people prefer stocks to real estate investments. Probably just because it has very little in the way of specifics.
The problem with employee jobs, even high-paying ones, is #1 they don't scale- you can only operate on one heart at a time and # 2 they don't bring in income unless you're working. Doesn't mean you can't do quite well financially with a typical job, a good savings rate, and a reasonable investing plan. But you'll never be a billionaire working for someone else.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I think people are hostile because one of Kiyosaki's message is that one gets rich through leverage. It's been a long time since I read that book, but if I recall correctly, I walked away feeling rather disgusted for that reason.
As for entrepreneurship, sure, successful businessmen tend to be wealther. But as Taleb points out, for most people, the optimal career path is what it would take for an average person with an average career trajectory to succeed in. And for that, college has historically (although perhaps not currently) been a good investment.
There's no point talking about scalability without talking about the probability of someone creating and sustaining a scalable business enterprise. Being an author is one of the classic examples of scalability. J.K. Rowling didn't have to write Harry Potter 1 million times to reach 1 million readers. Now, I'm not sure we are about to encourage our children to all aspire to writing books for a living.
I must not have read that many personal finance books, because RDPD did rank up there for me in terms of being among the worst finance books I have had the ill fortune of wasting my time on.
As for entrepreneurship, sure, successful businessmen tend to be wealther. But as Taleb points out, for most people, the optimal career path is what it would take for an average person with an average career trajectory to succeed in. And for that, college has historically (although perhaps not currently) been a good investment.
There's no point talking about scalability without talking about the probability of someone creating and sustaining a scalable business enterprise. Being an author is one of the classic examples of scalability. J.K. Rowling didn't have to write Harry Potter 1 million times to reach 1 million readers. Now, I'm not sure we are about to encourage our children to all aspire to writing books for a living.
I must not have read that many personal finance books, because RDPD did rank up there for me in terms of being among the worst finance books I have had the ill fortune of wasting my time on.
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I'm going to have the people who keep sending me books to review on my blog start sending them to you. I can't even get through some of them. Others aren't even worth scanning.Caduceus wrote:
I must not have read that many personal finance books, because RDPD did rank up there for me in terms of being among the worst finance books I have had the ill fortune of wasting my time on.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I don't get worked up about it; someone asked about him.
The problem with his books is that there are some obvious kernels of truth in it that, if you really don't know these things, can be found elsewhere. He uses these kernels to lend legitimacy to his proposed (and as mentioned, vague) investment scheme. So while the book may contain some motivational value and some almost-truths, these are merely hooks; it's main purpose is to get the reader excited about a risky way to invest without arming them with the tools to have even a fighting chance. I suppose you could drop a few grand on his courses if you want more, which, on second thought, may be the main purpose of the books.
Incidentally, he also perpetrates myths about the stock market and the overall economy that are damaging to your investment plan. These don't fool most Bogleheads, but they do many of the uninitiated. About 5 years ago I had to convince my elderly mother not to completely exit the market because RK wrote that by this time the stock market and economy would be in the toilet due to changing demographics or some such. She would have been the second person I know personally that was harmed by his "advice."
Are the readable? Sure, but it's also a fraud - largely unusable and harmful advice based on the false story of his "success.". Readability with some truth thrown in to lend legitimacy to a scheme that only enriches the author isn't enough for me to give him a pass and lamely acknowledge that some of the concepts that he discusses to further his scheme might have merit.
JT
The problem with his books is that there are some obvious kernels of truth in it that, if you really don't know these things, can be found elsewhere. He uses these kernels to lend legitimacy to his proposed (and as mentioned, vague) investment scheme. So while the book may contain some motivational value and some almost-truths, these are merely hooks; it's main purpose is to get the reader excited about a risky way to invest without arming them with the tools to have even a fighting chance. I suppose you could drop a few grand on his courses if you want more, which, on second thought, may be the main purpose of the books.
Incidentally, he also perpetrates myths about the stock market and the overall economy that are damaging to your investment plan. These don't fool most Bogleheads, but they do many of the uninitiated. About 5 years ago I had to convince my elderly mother not to completely exit the market because RK wrote that by this time the stock market and economy would be in the toilet due to changing demographics or some such. She would have been the second person I know personally that was harmed by his "advice."
Are the readable? Sure, but it's also a fraud - largely unusable and harmful advice based on the false story of his "success.". Readability with some truth thrown in to lend legitimacy to a scheme that only enriches the author isn't enough for me to give him a pass and lamely acknowledge that some of the concepts that he discusses to further his scheme might have merit.
JT
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I read one of John Reed's other books How to Write, Publish and Sell Your Own Book, http://www.johntreed.com/HTWP.html.. His information about writing is not so good, but everything else about the publishing industry and what it does to authors was really good. His view on the big publishing industry is eerily similar to Bogleheads view on Wall Street, big banks and brokerage firms. To any author, Reed says to keep you book away from the big publishing firms and DIY.denovo wrote:
Here is the best take-down of Kiyosaki. John T. Reed is someone who is famous for giving frank advice on real estate, but please don't click on the rest of his site! Sometime in the last few years he became a goldbug and inflation doomer but his real estate stuff is still good.
http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.htmlRich Dad, Poor Dad is one of the dumbest financial advice books I have ever read. It contains many factual errors and numerous extremely unlikely accounts of events that supposedly occurred.
Kiyosaki is a salesman and a motivational speaker. He has no financial expertise and won’t disclose his supposed real estate or other investment success.
Rich Dad, Poor Dad contains much wrong advice, much bad advice, some dangerous advice, and virtually no good advice.
Anyway, about Kiyosaki, he does one thing and only one thing right, he can sell his books! Millions and millions....
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
Definitely stop reading. I think there were some very good ideas in the first book that got me headed in the right direction. But some stuff in the first book, and certainly the material in the later books, is totally off the rails.
Before I read the first book, just based on the title, I thought he was going to distinguish rich thinking from poor thinking, and not being poor, I would likely be more aligned with rich thinking. But there is a third category of middle-class thinking, which fit me and everyone I know to a tee: work a job to get an income to buy things with debt (houses and cars) that cause you to spend more of your income to maintain the "asset" and service the debt. I liked the idea of trying to think about building up income-producing assets rather than income-costing assets. His most famous line is that your house is not an asset, meaning that it costs you money every month (mortgage, maintenance, utilities) rather than making you money. This is really the key to financial independence - build up enough assets that produce income (stocks and bonds, real estate, and/or a business you own) so you don't have to work to make money. He also talks about paying attention to the tax code's preference for certain types of income over others, which is sound advice.
The problem is, the average person can achieve financial independence over time by saving heavily and investing in stock and bond index funds and/or modest real estate investments. The average person cannot flip houses, buy distressed debt, take oil fields public, or whatever other nonsense he talks about. Most people who try will lose all their money. He also discourages investing in a 401K, citing an article called something like "The End of the 401(K)." I actually looked up the article and found that it was an advocacy piece calling for a return to defined benefit plans because they are guaranteed income (no thought was given to how this income is magically produced) - not a call to avoid investing in your own 401(K). Either he only read the title of the article, or didn't really care. Either way, it's terrible advice for the average person. Of course there was other terrible advice like investing in gold instead of stocks because whenever he wrote the book, gold had outperformed stocks for some previous selected period.
Bottom line: I would probably still recommend the first book as a way to break out of middle class thinking, but definitely stop reading after that.
Before I read the first book, just based on the title, I thought he was going to distinguish rich thinking from poor thinking, and not being poor, I would likely be more aligned with rich thinking. But there is a third category of middle-class thinking, which fit me and everyone I know to a tee: work a job to get an income to buy things with debt (houses and cars) that cause you to spend more of your income to maintain the "asset" and service the debt. I liked the idea of trying to think about building up income-producing assets rather than income-costing assets. His most famous line is that your house is not an asset, meaning that it costs you money every month (mortgage, maintenance, utilities) rather than making you money. This is really the key to financial independence - build up enough assets that produce income (stocks and bonds, real estate, and/or a business you own) so you don't have to work to make money. He also talks about paying attention to the tax code's preference for certain types of income over others, which is sound advice.
The problem is, the average person can achieve financial independence over time by saving heavily and investing in stock and bond index funds and/or modest real estate investments. The average person cannot flip houses, buy distressed debt, take oil fields public, or whatever other nonsense he talks about. Most people who try will lose all their money. He also discourages investing in a 401K, citing an article called something like "The End of the 401(K)." I actually looked up the article and found that it was an advocacy piece calling for a return to defined benefit plans because they are guaranteed income (no thought was given to how this income is magically produced) - not a call to avoid investing in your own 401(K). Either he only read the title of the article, or didn't really care. Either way, it's terrible advice for the average person. Of course there was other terrible advice like investing in gold instead of stocks because whenever he wrote the book, gold had outperformed stocks for some previous selected period.
Bottom line: I would probably still recommend the first book as a way to break out of middle class thinking, but definitely stop reading after that.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
TS,
I read 10 to 20 books on the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" series. I probably read close to all his books. I learned some useful concept from his books. They could be very simple. But, some of them are worth repeating and nailed into your brain.
A) Watch out for your cash flow. Your net worth could be increasing but if you keep on reducing your cash flow, you are in danger of bankruptcy. You may think this is not a big deal. But, how many people get into trouble with their house because of cash flow problem??
B) Watch out for opportunity to scale. It could be a product or an idea. With Internet and new revolution in distribution and funding (crowdfunding), the ability and opportunity for an individual to do something is greater. But, the competition is tougher too. I bought some IPhone cases through Amazon merchant. It was shipped from China.
The funny part of this is "RDPD" convinced me not to invest on real estate. After went through many of those calculations, I found that they are not a good deal in most places. And, under RDPD, your primary residence is a liability. Hence, RDPD helps me not to be "House Poor" too.
In summary, some of the concepts is good. Just do not convince yourself to follow the whole recipe and so on. The implementation details are not very good.
KlangFool
I read 10 to 20 books on the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" series. I probably read close to all his books. I learned some useful concept from his books. They could be very simple. But, some of them are worth repeating and nailed into your brain.
A) Watch out for your cash flow. Your net worth could be increasing but if you keep on reducing your cash flow, you are in danger of bankruptcy. You may think this is not a big deal. But, how many people get into trouble with their house because of cash flow problem??
B) Watch out for opportunity to scale. It could be a product or an idea. With Internet and new revolution in distribution and funding (crowdfunding), the ability and opportunity for an individual to do something is greater. But, the competition is tougher too. I bought some IPhone cases through Amazon merchant. It was shipped from China.
The funny part of this is "RDPD" convinced me not to invest on real estate. After went through many of those calculations, I found that they are not a good deal in most places. And, under RDPD, your primary residence is a liability. Hence, RDPD helps me not to be "House Poor" too.
In summary, some of the concepts is good. Just do not convince yourself to follow the whole recipe and so on. The implementation details are not very good.
KlangFool
Last edited by KlangFool on Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I've read a few of his books. I'm glad I did as it made me want to read and learn more about investing/finance and made me want to work smart rather than hard (passive income concept)
You should always be skeptical about advice and these books are no different.
You should always be skeptical about advice and these books are no different.
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
There are a few wise lessons on behavior and attitude in his books. One line from a book of his (I believe Rich Dad, Poor Dad) has stuck with me through the years: "The poor dad says, 'Because of you kids, I cannot be rich.' The rich dad says, 'Because of you kids, I must be rich.'" There are other such gems.
Other than that, it's garbage. All of it. Kiyosaki made his millions (like so many "gurus") by selling his ideas, not by actually being somebody successful himself. He's a "guru"-type personality, much like Suze Orman, and most of his substantive "advice" is questionable, to put it lightly.
Other than that, it's garbage. All of it. Kiyosaki made his millions (like so many "gurus") by selling his ideas, not by actually being somebody successful himself. He's a "guru"-type personality, much like Suze Orman, and most of his substantive "advice" is questionable, to put it lightly.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I first read this book maybe in 2000 or so and I assumed the rich dad/poor dad story was just made up (kinda like "The Wealthy Barber"..also popular around that time) as a way to teach the material. Around 2006 I re-read the story after a lot of people started recommending it...I would never recommend it as a personal finance book, but I think it helps with big picture thinking.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I've never read or seen more of Kiyosaki than seeing him on TV (commercials on cable? somebody interviewing him? I don't recall exactly) so my commentary is only about what you've said: makes sense to me.Wricha wrote:There is at least a small baby in that bath water you folks are throwing out. Particularly, on a macro level.
1, Knowing why people are employees (seeking security) why self employed (seeking autonomy) etc.
2. Understanding viscerally your relationship with the government as your business partner (employee vs business owner)
3. Value and different ways to develop passive income
4. Real estate being inferior to stocks based on average returns. I think it's possible to be good at picking real estate as opposed to picking stocks (regression to the mean)
5. Learning the value of developing relationships to create businesses is essential.
6. The value of honesty (I don't know if he personally is or not)
7. Calculated risk taking is necessary.
8. Making money not based on the number of hours you work
So I think there is some benefit there.
Personally I had a foot in all 4 categories (employee, self employed, business owner and investor) real estate for me was far and away a much better return than the buy and hold stock strategy. I am not bad mouthing bogleheads I now invest like one. Mainly because it's easier once you have enough resources.
Now when he gets into specifics it gets a little foggy and that investment book is awful. I did find value in the first two book and have not listen/read him 15 years. Selling books is pretty good passive income gig.
Go ahead rip me apart!!!
BH'ism sometimes tends to be stretched to fit the typical BH's worldview in areas not directly relevant to the philosophy. Here, most BH's are people who've taken a low risk approach to career, employee of a company or 'structured' independent professional (doctor etc). You go to the school, get the degree, get the job people from that school/degree get, make what you make, live below means, save up a nice nest egg with mainly financial assets (plus owned home, though many even kid themselves 'that's not an asset' ). There's nothing wrong with that, but it is not 'what the BH philosophy tells us to do'. Somebody who takes more career risk (switching careers or being an entrepreneur, real estate or other) with goal of making a lot more money is not via that decision a 'non BH'.
And needless to say that also applies to people who do a combination (over time or at the same time). And statements like 'real estate is better than stocks' or the opposite are just silly and ignorant. They are different types of assets, more different than stock vs. bond financial asset investments, mainly because of the element of personal time and effort involved. But they are still all investment assets, and while putting in one's own labor is a burden and drag to people in some situations, in other situations it's an opportunity to fully apply one's time and talent that otherwise isn't or wouldn't be fully used in company employment. And of course it's also about what the person values (independence, upside, security, etc).
Any entrepreneurship guru who implies it's an easy get rich path is full of it, obviously, though again I have no idea if this is actually what Kiyosaki preaches. And OTOH guru's who teach about correct (BH-friendly) ways to invest in financial assets as an individual don't present that as get rich quick, since it's also obviously not. In the guru population as a whole the pro-entrepreneur ones are probably more full of it on average. However, that doesn't mean it's a superior life choice to go low risk on employment rather than be an entrepreneur, and the 'BH philosophy' correctly defined and limited has nothing to say about that choice.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
My reaction to Robert Kiyosaki was that he put out some really good concepts. But I felt that he understated the risks of small business and of real estate. Some people are just not cut out to be businessmen. I have known a lot of small businessmen over the years, it seems that the biggest key to success is just not giving up. It seems that a lot of these guys went through real rough patches but if they hung in there they eventually succeeded. The American work place is a tough enough place, the world of small business is even tougher.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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Re: Rich dad, poor dad
IMO, The message of RDPD is do the American Thing- Make Money by starting a business.
I've had 3 businesses, all failures, couple hundred in non-inflated dollars. I'd do again.
It's like eating Sushi. If you don't try it, You won't know.
Only raw seafood I like are cockle clams, eaten within seconds of finding them. For some reason, cockles taste different if you wait a few minutes after harvesting. May be it's because they get that quezy stomach feeling that they are about to be eaten. And it's the clam's stomach and feet that are the tasty parts.
DS had a small corporation with his undergrad and later University employer when he was 24. Didn't work out. He moved on after 6 months.
He has a nice job. The company that he works for is entrepreneurial. Having a mindset of out-of-the-box thinking and execution, is profitable besides having fun doing it.
Yes, I had DS read RDPD very early on.
I've had 3 businesses, all failures, couple hundred in non-inflated dollars. I'd do again.
It's like eating Sushi. If you don't try it, You won't know.
Only raw seafood I like are cockle clams, eaten within seconds of finding them. For some reason, cockles taste different if you wait a few minutes after harvesting. May be it's because they get that quezy stomach feeling that they are about to be eaten. And it's the clam's stomach and feet that are the tasty parts.
DS had a small corporation with his undergrad and later University employer when he was 24. Didn't work out. He moved on after 6 months.
He has a nice job. The company that he works for is entrepreneurial. Having a mindset of out-of-the-box thinking and execution, is profitable besides having fun doing it.
Yes, I had DS read RDPD very early on.
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
This. It's easy to dump money into an index fund every month, but it takes a lot of knowledge and other skills to actively invest in managing a business, flipping property, etc. Most people (aka the average person) shouldn't even attempt that. However that doesn't make the general concept wrong - entrepreneurship is one of the primary/only paths from middle class to wealth.bs010101 wrote:Definitely stop reading. I think there were some very good ideas in the first book that got me headed in the right direction. But some stuff in the first book, and certainly the material in the later books, is totally off the rails.
Before I read the first book, just based on the title, I thought he was going to distinguish rich thinking from poor thinking, and not being poor, I would likely be more aligned with rich thinking. But there is a third category of middle-class thinking, which fit me and everyone I know to a tee: work a job to get an income to buy things with debt (houses and cars) that cause you to spend more of your income to maintain the "asset" and service the debt. I liked the idea of trying to think about building up income-producing assets rather than income-costing assets. His most famous line is that your house is not an asset, meaning that it costs you money every month (mortgage, maintenance, utilities) rather than making you money. This is really the key to financial independence - build up enough assets that produce income (stocks and bonds, real estate, and/or a business you own) so you don't have to work to make money. He also talks about paying attention to the tax code's preference for certain types of income over others, which is sound advice.
The problem is, the average person can achieve financial independence over time by saving heavily and investing in stock and bond index funds and/or modest real estate investments. The average person cannot flip houses, buy distressed debt, take oil fields public, or whatever other nonsense he talks about. Most people who try will lose all their money. He also discourages investing in a 401K, citing an article called something like "The End of the 401(K)." I actually looked up the article and found that it was an advocacy piece calling for a return to defined benefit plans because they are guaranteed income (no thought was given to how this income is magically produced) - not a call to avoid investing in your own 401(K). Either he only read the title of the article, or didn't really care. Either way, it's terrible advice for the average person. Of course there was other terrible advice like investing in gold instead of stocks because whenever he wrote the book, gold had outperformed stocks for some previous selected period.
Bottom line: I would probably still recommend the first book as a way to break out of middle class thinking, but definitely stop reading after that.
When I read that book all the concepts were new to me, so it was motivational and positive in the sense that it opened my mind a bit to the big picture of financial management. However I was continually frustrated by the vagueness of the writing. There were NO specific strategies outlined from what I recall, although it was written in such a way to make you think the very next page contained all the secrets. Then the book would end and he'd promise to elaborate in the next book...and so on. That makes it so gimmicky and really disgusted me after getting sucked into 2-3 of the books.
I will say that I later read Robert Allen's Multiple Streams of Income, and that (while also somewhat cheesy, in hindsight) gave me new motivation and tangible advice. The idea of not putting all my retirement eggs in one basket (the stock market) appeals to me, so I am ALSO accumulating residential rental properties. I may also start a business one day or try to write for royalties or some third leg for my passive income stool - but none of it is "get-rich-quick" stuff. So in short if that kind of thing appeals to you then do more research. Just don't limit your intake of advice to slick guys trying to sell you something.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I believe the rich dad is the one that wrote a book.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
This Kiyosaki sounds like a real huckster.
He pales in comparison to the Wolf of Wall Street aka Jordan Belfort in terms of sheer scumbaggery.
They actually made a movie glorifying this guy's life and now he's making millions again going on speaking tours?
There's one born every minute....
He pales in comparison to the Wolf of Wall Street aka Jordan Belfort in terms of sheer scumbaggery.
They actually made a movie glorifying this guy's life and now he's making millions again going on speaking tours?
There's one born every minute....
"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens." -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
+1. Years ago I read several of his books and saw him on stage with Donald Trump.retire@45 wrote:I've read a few of his books. I'm glad I did as it made me want to read and learn more about investing/finance and made me want to work smart rather than hard (passive income concept)
You should always be skeptical about advice and these books are no different.
I picked up a few ideas.
More than anything it made me consider some concepts new to me.
When the big hard sell sales pitch started for the live 3-day training package, I headed for the door.
Re: Rich dad, poor dad
I read his "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book a long time ago. Never bought any "training" seminars or anything else. I do think there are a couple pieces of good advice:
1. The definition of an "asset" as something that produces income. I don't subscribe to this philosophy to its logical conclusion like RK does, but I do think it's an important idea to think about. So many people buy things that they think are "assets", but which actually claim more of their income. Challenging that mentality is a good thing if it inspires one to live within their means and to save and invest more. I believe your primary residence is an "asset" (I disagree with RK about that), and ultimately buying "assets" by his definition is exactly what BHs do, though in the financial markets instead of the real estate market.
2. The effect of leverage. The idea of leveraging other people's income or work to pay for your assets is a powerful idea. One classic manifestation of this is a rental property, where someone is paying the principle of your mortgage and generating passive income for you. I firmly disagree with RK about the extent that people should use leverage though, and this quickly becomes an area where I agree with RK's critics about how dangerous leverage can be. A little leverage can go a long way, while too much is extremely dangerous and (usually) devastating.
3. Diversity of income. Virtually all successful people I have ever met have a diversity of income sources. I think this idea becomes important in retirement, so as to take pressure off of your savings and investments. BHs should also realize that they are doing exactly this by investing in the markets and generating returns, in addition to their "day job".
The rest of the book is much as others in this thread have described. The existing criticism of RK is VERY extensive, and in my opinion, he's MUCH more of a salesman than a financial guru. My BS radar is activated anytime someone tries to tell me that "you don't need a 401k", or that investing in financial markets is bad because it's "risky". Telling people they shouldn't bother getting an education is borderline fraudulent. Yes, people like Bill Gates do exist, but their template of success is extremely rare, and not appropriate for mass duplication. Like so many things in life, it's good to hear others ideas and keep an open mind about them, but ultimately you need to apply your common sense and filter out the BS.
1. The definition of an "asset" as something that produces income. I don't subscribe to this philosophy to its logical conclusion like RK does, but I do think it's an important idea to think about. So many people buy things that they think are "assets", but which actually claim more of their income. Challenging that mentality is a good thing if it inspires one to live within their means and to save and invest more. I believe your primary residence is an "asset" (I disagree with RK about that), and ultimately buying "assets" by his definition is exactly what BHs do, though in the financial markets instead of the real estate market.
2. The effect of leverage. The idea of leveraging other people's income or work to pay for your assets is a powerful idea. One classic manifestation of this is a rental property, where someone is paying the principle of your mortgage and generating passive income for you. I firmly disagree with RK about the extent that people should use leverage though, and this quickly becomes an area where I agree with RK's critics about how dangerous leverage can be. A little leverage can go a long way, while too much is extremely dangerous and (usually) devastating.
3. Diversity of income. Virtually all successful people I have ever met have a diversity of income sources. I think this idea becomes important in retirement, so as to take pressure off of your savings and investments. BHs should also realize that they are doing exactly this by investing in the markets and generating returns, in addition to their "day job".
The rest of the book is much as others in this thread have described. The existing criticism of RK is VERY extensive, and in my opinion, he's MUCH more of a salesman than a financial guru. My BS radar is activated anytime someone tries to tell me that "you don't need a 401k", or that investing in financial markets is bad because it's "risky". Telling people they shouldn't bother getting an education is borderline fraudulent. Yes, people like Bill Gates do exist, but their template of success is extremely rare, and not appropriate for mass duplication. Like so many things in life, it's good to hear others ideas and keep an open mind about them, but ultimately you need to apply your common sense and filter out the BS.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.