Is a generator worth it?
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Is a generator worth it?
My house loses power a few times a year, usually for just a few hours but sometimes longer. I'm thinking about getting a generator to power some things - space heater, fans, led light sticks, laptops ,phones , modem / router.(For work) .Do you think it's worth it or should we just "rough" it when the power is out?
- cheese_breath
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
That's up to you. Everyone's different. We just go to a motel when we lose power, but that's not for everyone. How expensive of a generator are you looking at?
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
To echo cheese_breath, it depends.
It wouldn't be for me.
We have gas logs for heat, a wind up emergency radio that can charge cell phones, candles/flashlights/oil lamps and playing cards/board games.
We have lost power for up to 3 days before and while it wasn't "fun", it wasn't terrible either. It was kind of funny taking showers by heating water in bowls on the gas logs and dumping on the other person while they were standing in the shower.
I have looked at getting generators before but our power loss is infrequent enough (2-4 times a year for usually no more than a few hours) that it wouldn't be worth the cost and upkeep to me. (Oil changes, rotating fuels, testing)
It wouldn't be for me.
We have gas logs for heat, a wind up emergency radio that can charge cell phones, candles/flashlights/oil lamps and playing cards/board games.
We have lost power for up to 3 days before and while it wasn't "fun", it wasn't terrible either. It was kind of funny taking showers by heating water in bowls on the gas logs and dumping on the other person while they were standing in the shower.
I have looked at getting generators before but our power loss is infrequent enough (2-4 times a year for usually no more than a few hours) that it wouldn't be worth the cost and upkeep to me. (Oil changes, rotating fuels, testing)
- ResearchMed
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
We finally got one, after not having one for the first few years we had this home, when the street lost power regularly.
That seems fixed.
However... Sandy gave us religion.
Given where we live, if we lost power for a while in the cold winter, our pipes would/could freeze.
In a summer or other warm weather serious storm with serious prolonged rain, without electricity, our sump pump would stop working... and then our finished garden level would flood badly.
And although we have flood insurance, that doesn't cover furniture/etc., and we can't toss the sofas over our backs, cart them out the back door, around the house and garage and back up the steps to the front door. Ditto the exercise equipment. Or the beds/dressers/tables.
We finally had a fully automated system installed, and had the wiring set to run the sump pump, the thermostat and both furnace starters, one fridge, no ovens, enough power to an outlet for one microwave, stair lighting, and a couple of circuits on each level. NOT the AC, which would have required a larger generator.
We have natural gas to the house, so the installation of a fully automated system was relatively easy. And we can use the gas cooktop with matches.
It's come on twice recently, once for a few hours, once for a few minutes. Good to know it works as it should, which we didn't *really* know for the first year plus.
(Testing isn't quite the same as 'real life'.)
Now, we figure the neighbors can thank us, because there won't be a serious and long power outage in this area again
It was relatively expensive, but we sleep MUCH better at night now, and are less worried each time a storm is predicted.
RM
That seems fixed.
However... Sandy gave us religion.
Given where we live, if we lost power for a while in the cold winter, our pipes would/could freeze.
In a summer or other warm weather serious storm with serious prolonged rain, without electricity, our sump pump would stop working... and then our finished garden level would flood badly.
And although we have flood insurance, that doesn't cover furniture/etc., and we can't toss the sofas over our backs, cart them out the back door, around the house and garage and back up the steps to the front door. Ditto the exercise equipment. Or the beds/dressers/tables.
We finally had a fully automated system installed, and had the wiring set to run the sump pump, the thermostat and both furnace starters, one fridge, no ovens, enough power to an outlet for one microwave, stair lighting, and a couple of circuits on each level. NOT the AC, which would have required a larger generator.
We have natural gas to the house, so the installation of a fully automated system was relatively easy. And we can use the gas cooktop with matches.
It's come on twice recently, once for a few hours, once for a few minutes. Good to know it works as it should, which we didn't *really* know for the first year plus.
(Testing isn't quite the same as 'real life'.)
Now, we figure the neighbors can thank us, because there won't be a serious and long power outage in this area again
It was relatively expensive, but we sleep MUCH better at night now, and are less worried each time a storm is predicted.
RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I have a portable one that cost about $700. It's been very worthwhile as we, too, get a few outages per year. The downside is that you have to keep fresh gas around and must run it every 4-6 weeks. Are you willing to do all that?
Re: Is a generator worth it?
In 2006 we lost power after a storm in our area and on the second day I decided to go to Home Depot and buy a 5kw generator to power the fridge, well pump and a few circuits. They were sold out and I bought an 8kw (13kw starting) generac/briggs & stratton with electric start for $1,200. More than I planned but I was stuck. I keep it in our garden shed. For a year or two when we lost power I would roll it out of the shed and use extension chords. I then decided to hire an electrician to install a plug on the side of the house wired to a disconnect switch (will not back feed) sub panel with 8 circuits on it. I paid him $900.
My setup is not an automatic standby. If the power is out I call electric company and get their "estimated" restore time and then decide if I will wheel the generator out and plug it into house and throw the disconnect switch. It runs about 10 hours on a tank of gas and I do have to make daily trips to get gas.
I service it (change oil) myself.
I paid more and got more than I originally planned but it has worked out well. I always believe everything for a reason.
My wife nicknames everything. The generator is Sparky.
It is currently positioned beside the plug on the side of the house with a tarp over it. We had a forecast several weeks ago for an ice storm and I wanted to be ready if the power went out. I am considering building a "dog house" for it so I can keep it there.
My setup is not an automatic standby. If the power is out I call electric company and get their "estimated" restore time and then decide if I will wheel the generator out and plug it into house and throw the disconnect switch. It runs about 10 hours on a tank of gas and I do have to make daily trips to get gas.
I service it (change oil) myself.
I paid more and got more than I originally planned but it has worked out well. I always believe everything for a reason.
My wife nicknames everything. The generator is Sparky.
It is currently positioned beside the plug on the side of the house with a tarp over it. We had a forecast several weeks ago for an ice storm and I wanted to be ready if the power went out. I am considering building a "dog house" for it so I can keep it there.
Last edited by user5027 on Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
We have considered it for a couple decades but have never purchased one.
We have propane fireplaces for back up heat.
Whoa I forgot.
I do have a generator.
On second thought ,If we lose power for an extended period I will go out side and "turn the generator on",
and Sleep in the RV.
We have propane fireplaces for back up heat.
Whoa I forgot.
I do have a generator.
On second thought ,If we lose power for an extended period I will go out side and "turn the generator on",
and Sleep in the RV.
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
After losing power for the 3rd third for at least 4 days or more we went with a partial house generator; sump pump and freezing pipes were a concern and finalized the decision.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
We've had a house with a portable generator tied into key uses in the house with a transfer switch, and now have a house with a propane whole house generator. As previously noted, the portable is a bit of a nuisance because of the need to store gasoline and run the generator regularly.
The whole house generator is wonderful but not inexpensive. The previous owner of the house spent $20,000 on it. It kicks on within about ten seconds of a power failure and runs until power is restored and can run everything in a 4,250 sq. ft. house. Although I have lived in Florida for 38 years I've never experienced a power failure for more than a few hours, but in the summer heat and humidity it would be worth every cent to keep the air conditioning running.
Both of these generators came with the houses. I'm not sure I would have purchased one had it not already been there.
Gill
The whole house generator is wonderful but not inexpensive. The previous owner of the house spent $20,000 on it. It kicks on within about ten seconds of a power failure and runs until power is restored and can run everything in a 4,250 sq. ft. house. Although I have lived in Florida for 38 years I've never experienced a power failure for more than a few hours, but in the summer heat and humidity it would be worth every cent to keep the air conditioning running.
Both of these generators came with the houses. I'm not sure I would have purchased one had it not already been there.
Gill
Cost basis is redundant. One has a basis in an investment |
One advises and gives advice |
One should follow the principle of investing one's principal
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I think it depends on the consequences of a worst case outage. Do you live in a cold climate where pipes might freeze? Is someone in your family on a medication that needs to be refrigerated? Do you keep a freezer full of food that might be worth hundreds of dollars? Those are the sorts of questions to ask yourself. We do not have a generator at our home in SoCal, but we don't have the issue with winter weather here. At our retirement home in rural north Idaho we do have a generator, but there even a few days without power in a cold snap could quickly become a bigger problem.
Dave
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
I didn't have one for the first 15 years I owned my home, but broke down last year and bought a portable unit at a very good price while on sale at Costco (7KW for $499, dual fuel). My main rationale was that storms seem to be getting worse and worse as the years go on, and while I live in a major city, we seem to be trending towards more time w/o power. Needless to say, it got about 4 days worth of run time last year, which to me, is enough to justify the cost & maintenance. And mine runs on NG or gasoline, so I don't even need to worry about storing/hunting for gas. And tossing an extension cord to my immediate neighbors for their fridge and a light at night builds some street cred/favors.
Mine will power the entire house other than the central A/C, but it would probably run the A/C if I needed it to and everything else was off.
Mine will power the entire house other than the central A/C, but it would probably run the A/C if I needed it to and everything else was off.
- TomatoTomahto
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
First storm, we lost power for 6 days or so. I wanted a generator, but my wife said that it was the first time in a zillion years that a power loss lasted longer than a few hours, so "what are the odds?"
The next year we lost power for 8 days. I started the process for a 20kwh generator that powers ~75% of our house. We have not lost power for more than a few hours since, but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. It was expensive.
The next year we lost power for 8 days. I started the process for a 20kwh generator that powers ~75% of our house. We have not lost power for more than a few hours since, but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. It was expensive.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I bought a portable 5000KW generator in 2012 after we experienced significant power outages (8 days total). I haven't had to use the generator a single time since I purchased it, go figure!
As another poster pointed out, a generator like this will be pointless unless you are willing to keep several gallons of gas at all times. That in my opinion has been the biggest hassle and I have let my supply fade with time as I gain confidence in our electric company. I run mine periodically but probably not as much as I should. I live in a neighborhood where the houses are close together and it's a bit embarrassing because I feel like it is noisy and might disturb the neighbors.
If I had to do it over again, I probably would have spent a bit more money and purchased a smaller inverter generator (specifically a Yamaha or Honda). They are WAY quieter and more fuel efficient. One gallon of gas goes a lot further with them. I think this would be the ideal option if you just wanted something to run a few household appliances.
As another poster pointed out, a generator like this will be pointless unless you are willing to keep several gallons of gas at all times. That in my opinion has been the biggest hassle and I have let my supply fade with time as I gain confidence in our electric company. I run mine periodically but probably not as much as I should. I live in a neighborhood where the houses are close together and it's a bit embarrassing because I feel like it is noisy and might disturb the neighbors.
If I had to do it over again, I probably would have spent a bit more money and purchased a smaller inverter generator (specifically a Yamaha or Honda). They are WAY quieter and more fuel efficient. One gallon of gas goes a lot further with them. I think this would be the ideal option if you just wanted something to run a few household appliances.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
When we lived on the coast we had a transfer switch installed and I'd plug our Honda eu3000i generator into it and power the refrigerator and a 15 amp circuit downstairs.
The thing to be aware of when you buy a generator is how loud they are - after a hurricane or tropical storm that knocked out power our neighborhood would sound like a construction zone. The Honda eu3000i has an inverter which provides clean power for electronics and a noise level of around 50 dB - you can stand next to it and have a conversation with someone without screaming - it's that quiet.
The thing to be aware of when you buy a generator is how loud they are - after a hurricane or tropical storm that knocked out power our neighborhood would sound like a construction zone. The Honda eu3000i has an inverter which provides clean power for electronics and a noise level of around 50 dB - you can stand next to it and have a conversation with someone without screaming - it's that quiet.
Last edited by tbradnc on Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
I bought a generator after a bad ice storm years ago when we were without power for about 4 days. I only used it once after that for about 3 hours over about 7 or 8 years. It was stolen out of my storage building and I have decided it is not practical to do again. We do lose power during ice storms, but they are infrequent enough and usually have the power back on within half a day. Generators have to be maintained to assure good working order. I am like some others, I will go to a motel if I have to rather than use a generator.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
A possible solution for some people is an inverter that you attach to your car battery. I have a 2,500 watt unit that will power any one 115 volt item in the house, or any combination that does not exceed 2,500 watts. You do have to keep the vehicle running, or your battery will run down very fast. If you do this, it is best to have a truck with a heavy duty alternator.
Yes, this does invite thieves to leave a running car in your driveway. If you think ahead far enough you could get an exhaust hose connection to pump the exhaust gas outside like many car repair shops do, although your fire insurance company would certainly not approve.
Ralph
Yes, this does invite thieves to leave a running car in your driveway. If you think ahead far enough you could get an exhaust hose connection to pump the exhaust gas outside like many car repair shops do, although your fire insurance company would certainly not approve.
Ralph
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
If I were building a house from scratch, I'd have a natural gas run generator that went on and off automatically. Normally power failures here last a few hours, but there was one several days long in the winter. That was brutal, let alone worrying about the plumbing freezing.
A gasoline fed generator is too cumbersome given my age and general physical ability and getting out to get more gas in the winter with unplowed roads, etc.
As to having a natural gas one installed with all the appropriate stuff now, I'm too cheap since the odds are the house will be clobbered by a hurricane in the semi-near future, so I'd be throwing away money that I may need for a new house. If money were no object, I'd certainly go for it.
A gasoline fed generator is too cumbersome given my age and general physical ability and getting out to get more gas in the winter with unplowed roads, etc.
As to having a natural gas one installed with all the appropriate stuff now, I'm too cheap since the odds are the house will be clobbered by a hurricane in the semi-near future, so I'd be throwing away money that I may need for a new house. If money were no object, I'd certainly go for it.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
I love the Honda and Yamaha inverter generators, but the downside as you mentioned, is big time cost, low output & most are 120v only. The EU7000iS is their smallest model that's 240v and MSRP is $4500. 120v-only presents a number of issues for people that would like to tie it into the house through a transfer switch or lockout, as well as not being able to power any 240v devices.tbradnc wrote:When we lived on the coast we had a transfer switch installed and I'd plug our Honda eu3000i generator into it and power the refrigerator and a 15 amp circuit downstairs.
I'm an IT guy and really wanted an inverter for my computers, but I just couldn't justify the cost/drawbacks.
Is that a typo (25W, 250W?), or do you really mean 2,500W? 2,500W is equivalent of a 20A 120v AC circuit, or > 175A @ 14v.ralph124cf wrote:A possible solution for some people is an inverter that you attach to your car battery. I have a 2,500 watt unit that will power any one 115 volt item in the house, or any combination that does not exceed 2,500 watts. You do have to keep the vehicle running, or your battery will run down very fast. If you do this, it is best to have a truck with a heavy duty alternator.
- TomatoTomahto
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
We moved onto our block 20 years ago. Nobody had a generator. Then someone built a house with a basement that flooded easily; they put in the first generator. Now, of the 8 houses on our block, 7 have generators. A funny side note: the house without a generator has a Tesla
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
We installed a whole house one after my wife had suggested it for a number of years. My view was that we'd never lost power for more than a day and a half, and it probably wasn't that needed.
Since then, we've had 4-5 instances where we lost power for more than 3 days. Hurricane Sandy took us out for 8 days.
So it depends on where you are and the likelihood and consequences of not having power. The cost isn't cheap, but its something in our area that many, many people have done. If you're in an area that has trees and could be subject to hurricane/noreaster type destruction, it might be worthwhile. IMO, if the Sandy storm had happened in winter, which it could easily have, our power would have been out for more than eight days. Our propane supply will take us nearly two weeks without a refill.
Since then, we've had 4-5 instances where we lost power for more than 3 days. Hurricane Sandy took us out for 8 days.
So it depends on where you are and the likelihood and consequences of not having power. The cost isn't cheap, but its something in our area that many, many people have done. If you're in an area that has trees and could be subject to hurricane/noreaster type destruction, it might be worthwhile. IMO, if the Sandy storm had happened in winter, which it could easily have, our power would have been out for more than eight days. Our propane supply will take us nearly two weeks without a refill.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
As I recall I I connected our eu3000i to the transfer switch with a cord that had L5-30 male/female ends. 30 amp I think....killjoy2012 wrote:[
I love the Honda and Yamaha inverter generators, but the downside as you mentioned, is big time cost, low output & most are 120v only. The EU7000iS is their smallest model that's 240v and MSRP is $4500. 120v-only presents a number of issues for people that would like to tie it into the house through a transfer switch or lockout, as well as not being able to power any 240v devices.
I'm an IT guy and really wanted an inverter for my computers, but I just couldn't justify the cost/drawbacks.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
If you go the portable generator route you might consider what I did: Had the furnace wiring changed so that it "plugs in" and can be plugged into the generator extension cord. I have a gas furnace but it still requires electricity for the motor and electronics. This set up will keep the furnace running as usual. Whole house A/C can't be run from a portable generator (usually), so we purchased a cheap window unit A/C. It won't keep the whole house cool during an outage, but keeping one bedroom cool can make a big difference versus no bedrooms cool at all.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
One way is the Cadillac route of a heavy duty unit, perhaps fueled from the natural gas mains, with a cut over switch on your main switchboard to get power for the whole house from the generator, and whole switchboard cut off from the utility. Then everything, basically, will work off the generator with no modification. And start up and switch over can be automated when the utility power fails. That package can be $1,000's. I'd still do it, but I've been told by electricians our city won't give permits for it so it's moot.
The much cheaper route of a cheap generator from a big box store is also worthwhile though. That's what we did, in the run up to one of the big storms of recent years. It was a few $100 bucks, gasoline fueled, so we'd have to stock up on gas in advance and it would only last so long. We'd only be able to power up a few things with plugs (refrigerator, some floor lamps etc) in the kitchen area, and importantly an extension cord from the sump pump in the basement can be run to the generator outside in the backyard. We haven't modified our furnace wiring into a plugged cord. I figure the set up we have is better enough than nothing to justify the modest price and the space the generator takes up.
The much cheaper route of a cheap generator from a big box store is also worthwhile though. That's what we did, in the run up to one of the big storms of recent years. It was a few $100 bucks, gasoline fueled, so we'd have to stock up on gas in advance and it would only last so long. We'd only be able to power up a few things with plugs (refrigerator, some floor lamps etc) in the kitchen area, and importantly an extension cord from the sump pump in the basement can be run to the generator outside in the backyard. We haven't modified our furnace wiring into a plugged cord. I figure the set up we have is better enough than nothing to justify the modest price and the space the generator takes up.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Just as a side note, you can often find NG conversion kits for most portable generators. They're generally $100-150. Plus you'd need pipe changes in the house/garage to plumb it where you need it.
- dratkinson
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Lots of past topics on backup/emergency generators. Can search for them. Recall interesting reading.
Street cred for doing good deeds with the neighbor(s) is overrated. It can backfire such that it comes to be *expected* that you will solve their problems. Increasing requests will cause you to feel like an unpaid servant. Failing "to be a good neighbor" by withholding expected services means you are considered less good than neighbors who never offer help. Better to provide limited services, and then only as requested. It's a form of fencing, and good fences make good neighbors.
Vehicle generator. In all cases, double-check (owner's manual, dealership service department,...) vehicle's electrical capacity. You can't get more than it was designed to deliver.
Non-hybrid vehicles have a ~50-150 amp alternator. This is more than enough to run its electricals and recharge the battery. Given P=E*V, and assuming you can only use 75% (conversion inefficiencies, vehicle circuit protection), the best you can expect from a vehicle-powered inverter is 450 watts (normal alternator), to 1350 watts (over-sized alternator). (450=12*50*.75, 1350=12*150*.75) Pulling more is depleting the battery---the longer you run, the worse it gets---which may only be discovered when you try to restart the vehicle.
Hybrid vehicles may have more electrical capacity to operate an inverter. Recall a reply in a past backup/emergency generator topic where one owner explained how he ran his house essentials for several days on little gas. Most interesting.
Street cred for doing good deeds with the neighbor(s) is overrated. It can backfire such that it comes to be *expected* that you will solve their problems. Increasing requests will cause you to feel like an unpaid servant. Failing "to be a good neighbor" by withholding expected services means you are considered less good than neighbors who never offer help. Better to provide limited services, and then only as requested. It's a form of fencing, and good fences make good neighbors.
Vehicle generator. In all cases, double-check (owner's manual, dealership service department,...) vehicle's electrical capacity. You can't get more than it was designed to deliver.
Non-hybrid vehicles have a ~50-150 amp alternator. This is more than enough to run its electricals and recharge the battery. Given P=E*V, and assuming you can only use 75% (conversion inefficiencies, vehicle circuit protection), the best you can expect from a vehicle-powered inverter is 450 watts (normal alternator), to 1350 watts (over-sized alternator). (450=12*50*.75, 1350=12*150*.75) Pulling more is depleting the battery---the longer you run, the worse it gets---which may only be discovered when you try to restart the vehicle.
Hybrid vehicles may have more electrical capacity to operate an inverter. Recall a reply in a past backup/emergency generator topic where one owner explained how he ran his house essentials for several days on little gas. Most interesting.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
The OP may want to look at an earlier thread on this same topic.
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 6#p1530716
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 6#p1530716
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
When you have a few power outages of at least half a day each per year, then I would install a generator.
I know a guy who has a Generac natural gas generator which self tests itself regularly every week, and turns itself on whenever needed.
A guy down the street has a gasoline generator which he wheels out of a shed and plugs in at an outside outlet whenever he needs it, that works fine. But his mother has a natural gas generator which often forgets to test itself and has therefore frequent maintenance calls. That's not so good, so experience of the installer and quality of the generator are very important.
I have none! I live here 28 years and only needed to install a backup sump pump. We have perhaps one power outage per year, and for that I have a battery operated backup sump pump. Stores sell fresh batteries most of the day. I also have a fully charged backup deep-draw marine battery, (that means I should bring both to Sears to get checked). With generators of both kind you will have additional maintenance and worries, so far no need here.
Edit in 2016, I forgot to mention, that before the backup battery driven sump pump, in 1987 my wife and I had to empty out the sump with buckets for most of a 16 hour power outage. That was too much. But as we just had decided that I should drive to the store to buy a generator, the lights turned on, so we no longer needed an automatic generator, and never had one.
I know a guy who has a Generac natural gas generator which self tests itself regularly every week, and turns itself on whenever needed.
A guy down the street has a gasoline generator which he wheels out of a shed and plugs in at an outside outlet whenever he needs it, that works fine. But his mother has a natural gas generator which often forgets to test itself and has therefore frequent maintenance calls. That's not so good, so experience of the installer and quality of the generator are very important.
I have none! I live here 28 years and only needed to install a backup sump pump. We have perhaps one power outage per year, and for that I have a battery operated backup sump pump. Stores sell fresh batteries most of the day. I also have a fully charged backup deep-draw marine battery, (that means I should bring both to Sears to get checked). With generators of both kind you will have additional maintenance and worries, so far no need here.
Edit in 2016, I forgot to mention, that before the backup battery driven sump pump, in 1987 my wife and I had to empty out the sump with buckets for most of a 16 hour power outage. That was too much. But as we just had decided that I should drive to the store to buy a generator, the lights turned on, so we no longer needed an automatic generator, and never had one.
Last edited by likegarden on Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
It depends.
I live in an area with well water, so when there is no electricity during Sandy, it was a hellish week. If we had city water, then I could do without spending $7k for insurance.
After 2 years, we are hardly out of power, but wife is happy every time she flushes.
I live in an area with well water, so when there is no electricity during Sandy, it was a hellish week. If we had city water, then I could do without spending $7k for insurance.
After 2 years, we are hardly out of power, but wife is happy every time she flushes.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I bought one, a 6KW Yamaha and had a transfer switch installed. We were without power for 12 days after Sandy. It was pretty cold in the house.
I hope I never need it.
I hope I never need it.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to wait on a generator -- the price seems reasonable, but the upkeep and needing to always have gasoline on hand doesn't seem worth the trouble for our area.
Helping keep my toddler warm or cool during the day and especially at night would be the main reason for the generator, but we've never lost power for extended periods of time. And even if we did, we have some neighbors with generators and our car handles very well in the snow so could travel to friends, family, hotels etc.
I may pick up an inverter which would be nice to stay online, but doesn't seem powerful enough to stay warm or cool. Our bosses are pretty understanding though so if we lose power they'll understand or we'll just have to drive into the office if road conditions are decent.
I have a USB led stick that lights up an entire room using 1 watt (http://smile.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-14101 ... +usb+light) and a solar powered battery pack that works ok but takes a while to charge if not in direct sunlight. But I could always charge my phones and battery pack in my car if needed. It would be nice to be able to hook up a fan to a battery pack but it seems like a decent size fan draws a surprising amount of power.
Nothing that absolutely needs to be kept cool. I'd say we usually keep ~$100-200 worth of perishable food in the fridge. But we have a couple coolers and store a lot of ice, many frozen water bottles so we've never lost a lot of food. We're also close to a few grocery stores so could easily restock on ice (assuming they have power).
Helping keep my toddler warm or cool during the day and especially at night would be the main reason for the generator, but we've never lost power for extended periods of time. And even if we did, we have some neighbors with generators and our car handles very well in the snow so could travel to friends, family, hotels etc.
I may pick up an inverter which would be nice to stay online, but doesn't seem powerful enough to stay warm or cool. Our bosses are pretty understanding though so if we lose power they'll understand or we'll just have to drive into the office if road conditions are decent.
I have a USB led stick that lights up an entire room using 1 watt (http://smile.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-14101 ... +usb+light) and a solar powered battery pack that works ok but takes a while to charge if not in direct sunlight. But I could always charge my phones and battery pack in my car if needed. It would be nice to be able to hook up a fan to a battery pack but it seems like a decent size fan draws a surprising amount of power.
I was considering something like this - http://smile.amazon.com/DuroStar-DS4000 ... =generatorcheese_breath wrote:That's up to you. Everyone's different. We just go to a motel when we lose power, but that's not for everyone. How expensive of a generator are you looking at?
Most days in the winter get above freezing so I've never been concerned about pipes freezing (although I've heard it happen to a couple people in the area).DFrank wrote:I think it depends on the consequences of a worst case outage. Do you live in a cold climate where pipes might freeze? Is someone in your family on a medication that needs to be refrigerated? Do you keep a freezer full of food that might be worth hundreds of dollars? Those are the sorts of questions to ask yourself. We do not have a generator at our home in SoCal, but we don't have the issue with winter weather here. At our retirement home in rural north Idaho we do have a generator, but there even a few days without power in a cold snap could quickly become a bigger problem.
Nothing that absolutely needs to be kept cool. I'd say we usually keep ~$100-200 worth of perishable food in the fridge. But we have a couple coolers and store a lot of ice, many frozen water bottles so we've never lost a lot of food. We're also close to a few grocery stores so could easily restock on ice (assuming they have power).
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Of course, they might buy an inverter and run what they need off the Tesla for a few days....if the 'tank' gets low on the Tesla, drive to the nearest supercharger and refill it.TomatoTomahto wrote:We moved onto our block 20 years ago. Nobody had a generator. Then someone built a house with a basement that flooded easily; they put in the first generator. Now, of the 8 houses on our block, 7 have generators. A funny side note: the house without a generator has a Tesla
I've got a 700W two-stroke generator that has powered my essential loads for 7 days over two major storms. Total amount invested for genny and jerry can and oil and parts...$200. Total maintenance time invested...minimal...change the sparkplug every 20 run hours, takes 60 seconds. Number of time it has started when needed, 10 out of 10 times over four years.
With a little load sharing, it runs my sump pump, fridge, wood stove blower, a few cfl lights, wifi, portable electronics and phones! Gasoline usage...about 1 gal per day. I keep a single 5 gal can on hand.
Last edited by just frank on Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I think a large consideration is how many other family members are affected and what is their vote?
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Yes, 2,500W, equivalent to 20A at 120V. Must be wired directly to the battery, not thru the cigarette lighter or aux power plug in the vehicle. Will power my main sump pump, or my aux sump pump plus my furnace blower, or my furnace plus a refrigetator, or two refrigerators. About $129.killjoy2012 wrote:I love the Honda and Yamaha inverter generators, but the downside as you mentioned, is big time cost, low output & most are 120v only. The EU7000iS is their smallest model that's 240v and MSRP is $4500. 120v-only presents a number of issues for people that would like to tie it into the house through a transfer switch or lockout, as well as not being able to power any 240v devices.tbradnc wrote:When we lived on the coast we had a transfer switch installed and I'd plug our Honda eu3000i generator into it and power the refrigerator and a 15 amp circuit downstairs.
I'm an IT guy and really wanted an inverter for my computers, but I just couldn't justify the cost/drawbacks.
Is that a typo (25W, 250W?), or do you really mean 2,500W? 2,500W is equivalent of a 20A 120v AC circuit, or > 175A @ 14v.ralph124cf wrote:A possible solution for some people is an inverter that you attach to your car battery. I have a 2,500 watt unit that will power any one 115 volt item in the house, or any combination that does not exceed 2,500 watts. You do have to keep the vehicle running, or your battery will run down very fast. If you do this, it is best to have a truck with a heavy duty alternator.
Most hi draw motor loads, like pumps and refrigerators, are transient, and the running load is much to somewhat less. Something like the main sump pump has a very high starting draw, and a high running draw, but operates intermittently.
Ralph
Re: Is a generator worth it?
To me, it's worth it! I own several.
But you might also want to consider something like this, or a cheaper, but lower capacity alternative.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YR ... UTF8&psc=1
We also have 3-4 of these. We keep one in each vehicle (some of them have air compressors too).
They will run many small appliances. My wifes c-pap machine will go 3-4 nights on one. Cable modem and router for a day. LED lights for many hours. Plus you can recharge devices. We run generators during the day, and battery packs at night.
They won't run a heater though. For that you might want to consider an indoor certified propane heater.
By the time you spend that money, you're into small generator cost territory. But the maintenance requirements of battery packs will be much less.
But you might also want to consider something like this, or a cheaper, but lower capacity alternative.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YR ... UTF8&psc=1
We also have 3-4 of these. We keep one in each vehicle (some of them have air compressors too).
They will run many small appliances. My wifes c-pap machine will go 3-4 nights on one. Cable modem and router for a day. LED lights for many hours. Plus you can recharge devices. We run generators during the day, and battery packs at night.
They won't run a heater though. For that you might want to consider an indoor certified propane heater.
By the time you spend that money, you're into small generator cost territory. But the maintenance requirements of battery packs will be much less.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Those are some good options too.bhsince87 wrote:To me, it's worth it! I own several.
But you might also want to consider something like this, or a cheaper, but lower capacity alternative.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YR ... UTF8&psc=1
We also have 3-4 of these. We keep one in each vehicle (some of them have air compressors too).
They will run many small appliances. My wifes c-pap machine will go 3-4 nights on one. Cable modem and router for a day. LED lights for many hours. Plus you can recharge devices. We run generators during the day, and battery packs at night.
They won't run a heater though. For that you might want to consider an indoor certified propane heater.
By the time you spend that money, you're into small generator cost territory. But the maintenance requirements of battery packs will be much less.
Something like this for a heater could be an option: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F232000 ... ane+heater could work well. Ideally I'd like to hook it up to my 20# propane tank outside but would probably need at least a 20 foot hose to reach it from a bedroom.
True, my wife doesn't think we need to get anything so that's why I'm planning to wait for now.ShiftF5 wrote:I think a large consideration is how many other family members are affected and what is their vote?
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
This.killjoy2012 wrote:Just as a side note, you can often find NG conversion kits for most portable generators. They're generally $100-150. Plus you'd need pipe changes in the house/garage to plumb it where you need it.
If you have natural gas service to your house, get an outdoor gas supply plumbed to your backyard patio to provide natural gas for your grill area. Then you can get a cheap conversion kit for your portable gasoline generator and run it 24/7 off your natural gas line. My house came built with natural gas plumbed to both the fireplace and the back patio even though I don't use either at the moment. Then if you want to spend the additional money, have an outdoor input plug installed next to your natural gas supply so you can safely plug in your generator (or generators if you want to daisy chain them).
I haven't seen any statistics about this but what I have been told is that natural gas service is almost never interrupted during disasters that take out electricity.
In any event, I'm planning on buying 2 of these generators this spring, primarily for RV and camping use but they will remain available for emergencies.
http://www.costco.com/.product.10012191 ... InCategory
They get good reviews on the various RV forums and are supposed to be Chinese-made copies of the $1000 Yamaha versions that are blue. Two of them will power the air conditioning on our camping trailer. We're planning some boondock desert camping trips this summer in the desert southwest and I'd like to be able to run the air.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I would repeat the above "it's up to you". But it seems you need it because work is not an option. However, if you are only worried about few hours and you don't need space heater and fans, I would suggest to build a UPS with 2 or 3 deep cycle batteries and pure sine wave inverter/charger (Don't buy those UPS at stores, those only last for a few minutes for you to finish your work). It will give you enough power for your laptop, phones, modem/router for a few hours or more (add more batteries). It's quiet and simple to build.ThankYouJack wrote:My house loses power a few times a year, usually for just a few hours but sometimes longer. I'm thinking about getting a generator to power some things - space heater, fans, led light sticks, laptops ,phones , modem / router.(For work) .Do you think it's worth it or should we just "rough" it when the power is out?
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Don't go natural gas.
Any disaster (earthquake, hurricane, floor, etc.) could shut down natural gas. Go with propane or gasoline. You can get a 300-500lb propane tank for under $700 and bury half of it to keep it out of sight.
Any disaster (earthquake, hurricane, floor, etc.) could shut down natural gas. Go with propane or gasoline. You can get a 300-500lb propane tank for under $700 and bury half of it to keep it out of sight.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
We had a 20 KVA unit installed two years ago, after going through SS Sandy and the October Halloween snow storm the previous two years that caused multi-day outages in both cases. Within the first year of the install, we had 10 outages ranging from a few minutes to a few hours.
Is it worth it? Probably not for most, but in our situation (retirees in their late 60's) who spend a good deal of their time around the house in an all-electric home (no LNG in our area) it was driven by peace of mind of not having to worry about impact to our home electrical use regardless of the time or temperature, 7x24x365. It's fueled by a 500 gal underground propane tank and I have yet to have topped off even though running weekly automatic test cycles in addition to our many short-term outages over the last two years.
A lot of neighbors (within a 1 block area) probably feel the same. There are (that I can see) seven of us that have the automatic whole-house backup solution.
FWIW,
- Ron
Is it worth it? Probably not for most, but in our situation (retirees in their late 60's) who spend a good deal of their time around the house in an all-electric home (no LNG in our area) it was driven by peace of mind of not having to worry about impact to our home electrical use regardless of the time or temperature, 7x24x365. It's fueled by a 500 gal underground propane tank and I have yet to have topped off even though running weekly automatic test cycles in addition to our many short-term outages over the last two years.
A lot of neighbors (within a 1 block area) probably feel the same. There are (that I can see) seven of us that have the automatic whole-house backup solution.
FWIW,
- Ron
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
When I requested a permit to do just that, the town clerk said "you will never get a permit to have a bomb in our town." When I offered to bury it underground, she made some comment about a buried bomb just being a land mine. We reverted to the natural gas solution.ddurrett896 wrote:Don't go natural gas.
Any disaster (earthquake, hurricane, floor, etc.) could shut down natural gas. Go with propane or gasoline. You can get a 300-500lb propane tank for under $700 and bury half of it to keep it out of sight.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
We went the portable generator route and are very happy with it. In the winter months we will lose power maybe 1-2 times each year usually during a bad ice storm that takes down many power lines. Our water is from a well, so losing power also loses water pressure.
Once a year didnt seem enough to justify a whole house system, but we got a good sized portable then I installed a slick automatic transfer switch by APC and routed 10 of my home electrical panel circuits through it. I ran a line from this switch out to my garage and installed a 220 volt inlet. When we lose power, all you need to do is start up the generator and plug it in. That gives plenty of juice to run well pump, furnace, and electrical in all the main rooms of the house.
A few other neat thing about this particular transfer switch is that you can prioritize the 10 circuits you want to run off the generator so that if there is more power demand than the generator can handle, it will "shed" low priority circuits as needed. It also supports a battery backup power supply, so when we lose power our critical electronics stay powered and main hall lights stay on via battery backup until we can connect the generator.
Once a year didnt seem enough to justify a whole house system, but we got a good sized portable then I installed a slick automatic transfer switch by APC and routed 10 of my home electrical panel circuits through it. I ran a line from this switch out to my garage and installed a 220 volt inlet. When we lose power, all you need to do is start up the generator and plug it in. That gives plenty of juice to run well pump, furnace, and electrical in all the main rooms of the house.
A few other neat thing about this particular transfer switch is that you can prioritize the 10 circuits you want to run off the generator so that if there is more power demand than the generator can handle, it will "shed" low priority circuits as needed. It also supports a battery backup power supply, so when we lose power our critical electronics stay powered and main hall lights stay on via battery backup until we can connect the generator.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
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Last edited by Confused on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Uh, I'm sure you saw this: http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nat ... /23962175/TomatoTomahto wrote: When I requested a permit to do just that, the town clerk said "you will never get a permit to have a bomb in our town." When I offered to bury it underground, she made some comment about a buried bomb just being a land mine. We reverted to the natural gas solution.
So much for natural gas not being "bombs" ...
- Ron
Re: Is a generator worth it?
I think it's worth it. We picked up a Briggs and Stratton 8kw for about $1100.
As other posters mentioned you need fuel on hand in the event you have to use it but you can always put Stabil in your fuel and it will last longer.
I wouldn't want to be forced to stay at a motel or a relative's house because the power is out.
I guess it all depends on how the service in your area is. Where we live we've had multi-day outages numerous times in the past 5 years or so.
As other posters mentioned you need fuel on hand in the event you have to use it but you can always put Stabil in your fuel and it will last longer.
I wouldn't want to be forced to stay at a motel or a relative's house because the power is out.
I guess it all depends on how the service in your area is. Where we live we've had multi-day outages numerous times in the past 5 years or so.
"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens." -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Is a generator worth it?
Is a generator worth it? To summarize:
1)How often do you lose power?
2) What are the consequences?
a) food loss
b)broken pipes
c)elderly living in winter without heat/in summer without a/c
d)young children living in winter without heat/in summer without a/c
Summarize in your mind what the pros and cons are financially and in terms of peace of mind, safety, etc.
THEN determine:
a) portable (gasoline operated or propane gas operated) Consider the fact that gasoline can be smelly, messy, and dangerous, and that in times of power outages, you may not be able to access gasoline. Consider that propane tanks will last for half a day. This number, and the number that follows can be modified upward depending upon how much you're actually powering during an outage. If you have 2 tanks, you'll have a day's worth, but then you'll be relying on someone to deliver propane to the house during an outage, not always going to happen. Also, propane tanks on the side of the house have potential for explosion, not saying likely, just saying potential is there.
1) size: determine what parts of your house you consider essential and work out the numbers. there are websites for this
b) permanent: same question as to how much or if entire house is to be powered
1)consider automatic transfer switch or not (automatic transfer switch is just that. You do NOTHIING. It's all done for you.
For permanent generators, consider the following:
1) the local zoning laws, i.e. how much space between the generator and the house and the generator and the next door neighbor's house.
2)municipal permits required to be able to get generator, application process, time factor, etc. etc.
3)contracting with electrician and plumber and have them coordinating the process
4) if you do not have gas in your house or on your street, discussions with local utility company concerning that, pricing that, etc.
Once you've got the permanent generator:
1) upkeep costs: contracting with company to keep it maintained all year long
Hope this algorithm of sorts helps
1)How often do you lose power?
2) What are the consequences?
a) food loss
b)broken pipes
c)elderly living in winter without heat/in summer without a/c
d)young children living in winter without heat/in summer without a/c
Summarize in your mind what the pros and cons are financially and in terms of peace of mind, safety, etc.
THEN determine:
a) portable (gasoline operated or propane gas operated) Consider the fact that gasoline can be smelly, messy, and dangerous, and that in times of power outages, you may not be able to access gasoline. Consider that propane tanks will last for half a day. This number, and the number that follows can be modified upward depending upon how much you're actually powering during an outage. If you have 2 tanks, you'll have a day's worth, but then you'll be relying on someone to deliver propane to the house during an outage, not always going to happen. Also, propane tanks on the side of the house have potential for explosion, not saying likely, just saying potential is there.
1) size: determine what parts of your house you consider essential and work out the numbers. there are websites for this
b) permanent: same question as to how much or if entire house is to be powered
1)consider automatic transfer switch or not (automatic transfer switch is just that. You do NOTHIING. It's all done for you.
For permanent generators, consider the following:
1) the local zoning laws, i.e. how much space between the generator and the house and the generator and the next door neighbor's house.
2)municipal permits required to be able to get generator, application process, time factor, etc. etc.
3)contracting with electrician and plumber and have them coordinating the process
4) if you do not have gas in your house or on your street, discussions with local utility company concerning that, pricing that, etc.
Once you've got the permanent generator:
1) upkeep costs: contracting with company to keep it maintained all year long
Hope this algorithm of sorts helps
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
Ron, and in our case, the propane would have been a cheaper bomb. But, literally this time, you can't fight city hall.Ron wrote:Uh, I'm sure you saw this: http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nat ... /23962175/TomatoTomahto wrote: When I requested a permit to do just that, the town clerk said "you will never get a permit to have a bomb in our town." When I offered to bury it underground, she made some comment about a buried bomb just being a land mine. We reverted to the natural gas solution.
So much for natural gas not being "bombs" ...
- Ron
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Is a generator worth it?
This is beyond absurd. People all over America have propane and/or fuel oil tanks in their yards, and there is no epidemic of either of them exploding. Much of rural America uses propane heat, and those tanks are typically not buried. While many homes in the northeast may have transitioned to natural gas heat, fuel oil heat is still quite common. Those tanks are often buried, but I understand that there may be a preference to have them above ground now so they can be more easily monitored for leakage.TomatoTomahto wrote:When I requested a permit to do just that, the town clerk said "you will never get a permit to have a bomb in our town." When I offered to bury it underground, she made some comment about a buried bomb just being a land mine. We reverted to the natural gas solution.ddurrett896 wrote:Don't go natural gas.
Any disaster (earthquake, hurricane, floor, etc.) could shut down natural gas. Go with propane or gasoline. You can get a 300-500lb propane tank for under $700 and bury half of it to keep it out of sight.
Your point about possibly loosing your natural gas supply in an emergency is well taken. I do note though that natural gas wasn't affected in many areas affected by Sandy. I think you are very likely to loose your gas feed following an earthquake, so in earthquake country I'd prefer to be on some standalone fuel source. Diesel actually makes more sense than propane because it has much higher energy density, so it will run the generator for a longer time period. Diesel does have some additional hassles in terms of proper long term storage though.
Dave
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
During Sandy, I borrowed a generator from a friend two hours away. Good thing I drove to get it, because I could also buy gas there. Around here, most of the gas stations were out or did not have power to pump gas, and the rest had long lines. Even a small generator went through a lot of gas during five days, and I was mainly powering only the refrigerator and furnace. It was the only time in thirty-five years that I really had a use for a generator. Do we buy a new one every ten years to have one when we need it once every thirty-five years?
I think what we will see instead over the next few years is a movement to go off grid, mainly with solar power and batteries (thank you, Elon Musk). It is already happening in Hawaii, where electric rates are horrendous. You can already power an RV off solar with batteries, and sustain yourself for an extended outage. Of course, then you might have to ask yourself, "What would a hurricane do to my RV and its solar panels?"
I think what we will see instead over the next few years is a movement to go off grid, mainly with solar power and batteries (thank you, Elon Musk). It is already happening in Hawaii, where electric rates are horrendous. You can already power an RV off solar with batteries, and sustain yourself for an extended outage. Of course, then you might have to ask yourself, "What would a hurricane do to my RV and its solar panels?"
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Re: Is a generator worth it?
My family had similar experiences in the aftermath of Sandy. Borrowed a gasoline generator, but found they had problems finding enough gas to keep it running.
Solar is an interesting approach. I think today most people are who install solar are installing grid-tied systems. These maintain a connection to the grid, and sell power to the power company when they produce more than they need, and buy power to make up the shortage at other times. They don't have the ability to store energy for nighttime or low sun periods. Batteries and the electronics to control them do add significantly to the cost if you want to go completely off-grid, but it can be done with today's solar and battery technology. Good point though that your panels may not survive the natural disaster, and your time to get those back up and running may be longer than the utility outage you are trying to protect against.
I like Musk, he's a brilliant guy with lots of creative ideas, and I hope Tesla survives long enough to see his ideas come to fruition. Lately their financial performance hasn't inspired confidence.
Solar is an interesting approach. I think today most people are who install solar are installing grid-tied systems. These maintain a connection to the grid, and sell power to the power company when they produce more than they need, and buy power to make up the shortage at other times. They don't have the ability to store energy for nighttime or low sun periods. Batteries and the electronics to control them do add significantly to the cost if you want to go completely off-grid, but it can be done with today's solar and battery technology. Good point though that your panels may not survive the natural disaster, and your time to get those back up and running may be longer than the utility outage you are trying to protect against.
I like Musk, he's a brilliant guy with lots of creative ideas, and I hope Tesla survives long enough to see his ideas come to fruition. Lately their financial performance hasn't inspired confidence.
Dave
Re: Is a generator worth it?
This is a very good point, and something the OP should consider. I've been tempted to switch from gasoline powered generators to diesel. Like the OP, I too use fuel/heating oil for my main heat source. I have a 550 gallon oil tank, and I never let it get below half full. Since the heating oil can also be burned in a diesel motor, I'd always have at least 200 gallons of fuel on hand to run a generator, if need be.DFrank wrote: Diesel actually makes more sense than propane because it has much higher energy density, so it will run the generator for a longer time period. Diesel does have some additional hassles in terms of proper long term storage though.
But diesel generators are much more expensive than gasoline or propane/nat gas. I've been looking for decent used one for a few years. But I sort of gave up and picked up a new gas powered 7.5 KVA (9 surge) generator when it went on sale for $600 at BJ's a few months ago. But I still might add a diesel some day.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn