Subaru Blues

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chuppi
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by chuppi » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:20 pm

If you check craigslist, you will see that there are a lot of Subarus with 150K-200K miles selling at 4-5K. That tells that it is fairly reliable and maintenance is not too expensive. Obviously they are old cars and you don't know how are the newer cars.

They definitely hold value. I looked around for used outbacks. They usually have a lot miles and typically sell at a discount of anywhere between 1-1.5K per year compared to a new car. So I ended up getting a new 2013 outback end of 2012. Costed me $27000 including the high California sales tax. It has now 21000 miles and it runs fine. There is a lot of space and i have a hitch receiver for the bike racks. I plan to go camping and skiing a lot once my kids get a little older. So utility wise I cannot complain. I don't repent buying it.

It is just a basic car by the way. Nothing fancy about it. Gas mileage is okay at combined 24-25miles per gallon. I just hope that I can drive it for 15years and get a lot of use out of it.

ncbill
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by ncbill » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:05 pm

1997 Legacy GT sedan here w/ 170,000 miles.

Head gaskets replaced @ 120,000 miles - overheated out of town - local dealership replaced the head gaskets, radiator, water pump, one half-shaft, all belts/hoses/seals for $2000 - fortunately it was still a company car back then so I was reimbursed for the repairs.

Replaced the OEM radio when it died with an identical model for $8 off ebay.

Power antennas don't seem to last very long, but generic replacements are $35 off ebay.

Clear-coat started peeling a few years ago, so last year I broke down & had it repainted @ MAACO for $900.

mlipps
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by mlipps » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:45 pm

technovelist wrote:
mlipps wrote:The plural of anecdote is not data. The data from Consumer Reports and the like report that Subaru are reliable year after year after year. They also maintain value better than (nearly?) any brand, making them expensive compared to other comparable used cars.
I assume you meant "inexpensive".
In any event, my experience with Consumer Reports and Subaru was a bit different, although that was almost 30(!) years ago.
Namely, I bought a 1986 Subaru turbo wagon after reading the excellent review in Consumer Reports. It was my first "fancy" (i.e., not base model) car. When I went to sell it a few years later (yes, I know I should have kept it longer), that model was no longer recommended as a used car due to reliability problems. :oops:
I guess it depends on how you look at it. It's more expensive up front because they maintain value better, but if you sell the car while it still has some life left, you may get more for it than a Toyota or Honda of similar year & mileage, so maybe it's a wash at that point.

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fandango
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by fandango » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:15 pm

The judgment that Subarus are very reliable is a fairly recent development. I remember when they were considered to be "unreliable" ten years or so ago and was surprised to see the improvement.

Anyway, I have never bought a Subaru because the nearest dealer is over 40 miles from me, and the pricing seems to be pretty high compared to Honda or Toyota.

I've driven Hondas and Toyotas for 30 or 40 years and never had one "leave me in the road". That would be when I would quit buying any brand of car.

jbmitt
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by jbmitt » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:39 pm

maroon wrote:I could be wrong, but I thought the Chase Subaru Mastercard has been discontinued. Anyone know for sure?
I've heard at the end of the year, and they have stopped marketing it. I have not received anything from Chase.

I have another Subaru data point. I have a 2012 Subaru Impreza Limited Sport with about 28,000 miles on it. Last night I got the low oil light, I panicked because of all of the ring/seal/head problems and recalled filters. Pulled over, popped the hood, and found oil around the filter and dripping to the ground. Left it overnight, got a ride to work, and called the dealer this morning. They suggested that I drive it in (approx. 12 miles on top of a 20 min walk from the office to where it was) because the oil pressure light wasn't on and I declined due to the amount of oil and I didn't want to be stranded on the highway. I called the free roadside assistance, (3 years 36k miles) they had a flatbed wrecker out in 30 minutes. The dealer knew it was coming, quickly looked over it and figured out that it was a faulty oil filter, replaced it, changed the oil, cleaned it up, and had it dropped off for me at the office this afternoon, all under warranty. I had a free oil change there less than a month and 1000 miles ago, but was happy with how they handled this.

Much better than a cracked oil pan or warranty denial as I thought through the worst case possibilities.

protagonist
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by protagonist » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:13 pm

Browser wrote:Been contemplating the purchase of a new vehicle and considering the Subarus. Just learned of an acquaintance who owns one that is 2 years old with 19K miles (sedan, not sure which model). Seems that while driving, the dash status lights all lit up and began flashing and the steering went fuzzy. She parked it and was unable to move the auto transmission, as the status lights remained lit up and flashing wildly. Car had to be towed. She had previously owned a Suby that had all kinds of problems also, but defied her spouse and common sense by buying another one; now she's in the do-do. Any similar tales of woe regarding the Suby? I'm wondering what sort of problem would cause these symptoms. It's now on my "Do Not Buy" list after hearing this narrative.
I bought a 1998 Outback new and it was a lemon. Constant niggling problems and the transmission went after about 80K miles. That said, statistically anybody can buy a lemon, and I wouldn't rely on anecdotal comments from a handful of people when choosing a car that has a stellar reputation (if it still does- I haven't checked car reputations for a long time). Though I have not bought another based on my own bad experience (once burned.....), IMHO you should check more reliable sources than me. I'm a loyal Honda guy for what it is worth (though I have not bought one since 2005).

Millennial
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Millennial » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:18 pm

jbmitt wrote:I've heard at the end of the year, and they have stopped marketing it. I have not received anything from Chase.
Sadly, this is true. They stopped taking new applications for the program late last year, and all cards officially stop earning points on 9/30/14. Points will be honored until the expiration date on the certificate.

There's some discussion here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2588370

TT
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by TT » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:11 am

Here is my experience with Subaru-
2000 Subaru Outback 196,000 miles 4 cylinder - head gaskets replaced under warranty @ 90,000 otherwise normal maintenance
2004 Subaru Outback 172,000 miles 6 cylinder - normal maintenance currently my daily driver
2010 Subaru Outback 84,000 miles 4 cylinder - normal maintenance currently my wife's daily driver

How a company handles issues also matters:
Subaru extended warranties on head gasket issues for my 2000 Outback
Honda tells it's customers to pound salt and has to be sued. I will never own another one.

Honda Class Action Lawsuits: - there may be others

Accord rear brake issue '08 - 10
Odyssey & CRV -AC issues
Honda and Acura transmission issues
Odyssey Torque converter
Accord 08 - 10 oil consumption
Civic and Accord paint issues
Civic control arms
Misfire V6 Issues -2008-2012 Honda Accord;2008-2013 Honda Odyssey;2009-2013 Honda Pilot;2010 2011 &12 Honda Accord Crosstour
Civic 03-09 Hybrid
Airbags in Accord

This may help you decide on a brand but remember within each brand are models and specific years that may vary in reliability.
http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/2014-V ... elease.htm

LK2012
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by LK2012 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:13 am

technovelist wrote:
mlipps wrote:The plural of anecdote is not data. The data from Consumer Reports and the like report that Subaru are reliable year after year after year. They also maintain value better than (nearly?) any brand, making them expensive compared to other comparable used cars.
I assume you meant "inexpensive".
I think the poster DID mean EXPENSIVE COMPARED TO OTHER COMPARABLE USED CARS if you are looking to buy a used Subaru.

You will likely NOT find many used Subarus for sale. If you do, they will cost you a lot because they do not depreciate in value.

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:30 am

LK2012 wrote: You will likely NOT find many used Subarus for sale. If you do, they will cost you a lot because they do not depreciate in value.
The actual facts are that the ALG residual value of the 2014 Subaru Forester is almost exactly the same as that for the Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4, for example. They depreciate at the same rate as the competition.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

mlipps
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by mlipps » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:47 pm

Browser wrote:
LK2012 wrote: You will likely NOT find many used Subarus for sale. If you do, they will cost you a lot because they do not depreciate in value.
The actual facts are that the ALG residual value of the 2014 Subaru Forester is almost exactly the same as that for the Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4, for example. They depreciate at the same rate as the competition.
That surprises me. Maybe I am comparing the wrong cars then. I've never driven a Subaru, but assumed their station wagon was in the same class as a Corolla or Civic, and the prices have seemed higher there to me, when I was shopping for cars at least. A little harder to compare though I guess since AWD adds to the sticker price & Corolla/Civic don't come it with it, while it seems most Subarus do.

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:14 pm

mlipps wrote:
Browser wrote:
LK2012 wrote: You will likely NOT find many used Subarus for sale. If you do, they will cost you a lot because they do not depreciate in value.
The actual facts are that the ALG residual value of the 2014 Subaru Forester is almost exactly the same as that for the Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4, for example. They depreciate at the same rate as the competition.
That surprises me. Maybe I am comparing the wrong cars then. I've never driven a Subaru, but assumed their station wagon was in the same class as a Corolla or Civic, and the prices have seemed higher there to me, when I was shopping for cars at least. A little harder to compare though I guess since AWD adds to the sticker price & Corolla/Civic don't come it with it, while it seems most Subarus do.
Certainly local markets might differ and in some areas used Subarus command a higher price based on supply and demand. I'd surmise that in areas where the 4WD is valued and/or road conditions are not that great that might be true.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

BenBritt
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by BenBritt » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:49 am

My wlfe has a 2015 Forester and so far is happy with it. I am in the market and am looking for a two or three year old Navigator. l am driving a 1997 Explorer with 140000k on it.

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vectorizer
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by vectorizer » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:34 am

Browser wrote:Been contemplating the purchase of a new vehicle and considering the Subarus. Just learned of an acquaintance who owns one that is 2 years old with 19K miles (sedan, not sure which model). Seems that while driving, the dash status lights all lit up and began flashing and the steering went fuzzy. She parked it and was unable to move the auto transmission, as the status lights remained lit up and flashing wildly. Car had to be towed. (...) I'm wondering what sort of problem would cause these symptoms.
Recently had similar symptoms (2006 Legacy GT), warning lights going wild and at one point stayed in 2nd gear. Managed to drive it to dealer without turning it off. In my case turned out to be a bad alternator, so the computer was getting marginal supply voltage ... digital devices don't like marginal voltage. :-) New alternator fixed the problems. In your acquaintance's case, it's almost certainly a problem with the computer, though it may not be caused by a power supply problem.
Browser wrote:Any similar tales of woe regarding the Suby? It's now on my "Do Not Buy" list after hearing this narrative.
My Suby spent a lot of time at the dealer in years 2-4, it would stall when accelerating from a stop on cold days. Not fun when pulling out into traffic. Kept doing major fixes, the problem kept reappearing. To their credit, they gave me a free extended 120k warrantee and a $500 parts credit as a way of apology. When I talk to others about this, I consistently get 1st-hand or 2nd-hand reports of excellent reliability of Subys. So, I'm thinking I just got one of the unrepresentative bad ones. When considering brand or model reliability, it's best to stick with trusted sources that look overall rather than random reports.
Browser wrote:She had previously owned a Suby that had all kinds of problems also, but defied her spouse and common sense by buying another one; now she's in the do-do.
I may be in the same boat in a few years. The car I would currently want the most, considering performance, value, and my stage in life ... would be a manual Suby WRX. I will look pretty silly to the spouse if I have the same reliability experience as the Legacy. But, hopefully I won't have to buy any car for a few more years.

BuckyBadger
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by BuckyBadger » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:10 pm

More anecdotes:

Between my parents, me, my brother, my brother's ex wife, and my brother's current girlfriend, we've had a total of, lets see - carry the one - about 11 Subarus over the years. (Very popular in the north due to the AWD.)

We have never had any unusual maintenance or repairs required. I believe that ~200k miles in to one of my brother's manual Subarus he had the transmission replaced. We've had many handed down - Mom got the new one, then Dad drove it, then one of us kids, then it became my brother's "dog" car, then got sold for a few thousand bucks with over 200k on the clicker.

We like Subarus and have found them to be reliable, but there are lemons with every brand.

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:47 am

Update: Friend's Subaru was diagnosed as having failure the "master control whatchamacallit" - I gather a system computer of some sort. Don't know the details. Repair would cost $1500. Even though still under warranty she decided to ditch it and trade for a Nissan. Didn't much like being stranded and the hassle of dealing with the repair. Has longish commutes often after dark. The previous Subaru Outback was high maintenance - the obligatory Subaru head gasket failure and all that. She has no plans to ever own one again.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

tomd37
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by tomd37 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:56 am

Browser,
Sounds like the friend's issue is the electronic control unit/module. I had one diagnosed as bad just yesterday on my 2001 Lexus ES300. It and one of the two oxygen sensor units will be replaced on Thursday at the tune of $1700. This car only has 65K miles on it and my wife will not part with it. Total repair costs with this $1700 added is now $6500 for thirteen and a half years. That is all costs excluding gas and insurance and includes a replacement of the timing belt after twelve years based on age rather than mileage.
Tom D.

Keep It Simple
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Keep It Simple » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:57 am

Browser wrote:Update: Friend's Subaru was diagnosed as having failure the "master control whatchamacallit" - I gather a system computer of some sort. Don't know the details. Repair would cost $1500. Even though still under warranty she decided to ditch it and trade for a Nissan. Didn't much like being stranded and the hassle of dealing with the repair. Has longish commutes often after dark. The previous Subaru Outback was high maintenance - the obligatory Subaru head gasket failure and all that. She has no plans to ever own one again.
Please start a new thread titled "Nissan Blues" when you get more data from your friend on that car. If you can't trust a Subaru, then good luck with a Nissan.

K.I.S.

flyingbison
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by flyingbison » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:10 am

Browser wrote:Update: Friend's Subaru was diagnosed as having failure the "master control whatchamacallit" - I gather a system computer of some sort. Don't know the details. Repair would cost $1500. Even though still under warranty she decided to ditch it and trade for a Nissan. Didn't much like being stranded and the hassle of dealing with the repair. Has longish commutes often after dark. The previous Subaru Outback was high maintenance - the obligatory Subaru head gasket failure and all that. She has no plans to ever own one again.
Someone is either confused or misinformed. Your friend's car is 2 years old and has 19K miles, so the repair would cost $0.

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:26 am

flyingbison wrote:
Browser wrote:Update: Friend's Subaru was diagnosed as having failure the "master control whatchamacallit" - I gather a system computer of some sort. Don't know the details. Repair would cost $1500. Even though still under warranty she decided to ditch it and trade for a Nissan. Didn't much like being stranded and the hassle of dealing with the repair. Has longish commutes often after dark. The previous Subaru Outback was high maintenance - the obligatory Subaru head gasket failure and all that. She has no plans to ever own one again.
Someone is either confused or misinformed. Your friend's car is 2 years old and has 19K miles, so the repair would cost $0.
Not confused or misinformed. Just didn't want the hassle of owning that brand anymore even if it were repaired. Afraid of another breakdown and would have to ditch it in a few months anyway when it is out of warranty. You have to dislike a vehicle a lot to make that decision.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

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deanbrew
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by deanbrew » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:37 am

So, the car had a computer problem and Subaru will cover it under warranty at no cost to the owner. Bastards!! How dare they?

Should I add :wink: ?

It is clear that the neighbor doesn't like the vehicle and wants an excuse to get rid of it, likely at significant cost. It always costs money to sell a vehicle and buy another, when you factor in sales tax, dealer profit, licensing costs and depreciation.

Any product can require a repair.
Afraid of another breakdown and would have to ditch it in a few months anyway when it is out of warranty.
So the neighbor basically requires a warranty and then gets upset when it has to be used? Tough customer. I owned a Ford that broke down on the highway when it was nearly new with some kind of control/computer problem. We had to call AAA and have it towed to the closest Ford dealer, who made the repair under warranty and we went on our way. I kept the vehicle for several more years with no significant problems. I guess I should have sold it and vowed to never buy a Ford again.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:07 am

I can't read her mind, but I'm thinking that she has basically lost confidence in the brand at this point and is worried about more problems and more repairs down the road with her present vehicle, as this seemed to be her experience with her previous Outback. Why it took getting to this point, rather than deciding not to buy another Suby in the first place, I can't say. But I'm pretty sure her thinking at this point is that she doesn't trust the vehicle and is concerned about being stuck with more repairs after it is out of warranty in a few months. She figures the trade-in now is a bit higher than a year from now, so why not go ahead and do it now? I like to own a vehicle for a long time, realizing it's expensive to trade them off frequently. But if I got to the point I'm fed up, I guess I might do the same thing and take the hit.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

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deanbrew
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by deanbrew » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:18 am

Browser wrote:I can't read her mind, but I'm thinking that she has basically lost confidence in the brand at this point and is worried about more problems and more repairs down the road with her present vehicle, as this seemed to be her experience with her previous Outback. Why it took getting to this point, rather than deciding not to buy another Suby in the first place, I can't say. But I'm pretty sure her thinking at this point is that she doesn't trust the vehicle and is concerned about being stuck with more repairs after it is out of warranty in a few months. She figures the trade-in now is a bit higher than a year from now, so why not go ahead and do it now? I like to own a vehicle for a long time, realizing it's expensive to trade them off frequently. But if I got to the point I'm fed up, I guess I might do the same thing and take the hit.
I think you're right. She clearly has soured on the brand as well as her particular vehicle. Getting rid of it makes sense for her, as she would just be worrying about every little noise, vibration and flicker. My wife did the same thing with a vehicle that she just didn't trust, worrying about the next issue, and sold it earlier than she would normally have. It didn't turn her against the brand, however, as she bought a vehicle of the same brand a few years later.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

flyingbison
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by flyingbison » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:34 am

Browser wrote:
flyingbison wrote:
Browser wrote:Update: Friend's Subaru was diagnosed as having failure the "master control whatchamacallit" - I gather a system computer of some sort. Don't know the details. Repair would cost $1500. Even though still under warranty she decided to ditch it and trade for a Nissan. Didn't much like being stranded and the hassle of dealing with the repair. Has longish commutes often after dark. The previous Subaru Outback was high maintenance - the obligatory Subaru head gasket failure and all that. She has no plans to ever own one again.
Someone is either confused or misinformed. Your friend's car is 2 years old and has 19K miles, so the repair would cost $0.
Not confused or misinformed. Just didn't want the hassle of owning that brand anymore even if it were repaired. Afraid of another breakdown and would have to ditch it in a few months anyway when it is out of warranty. You have to dislike a vehicle a lot to make that decision.
A) "Repair would cost $1500
B) Repair would cost $0

Both A and B cannot be correct.

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:32 pm

More specific info regarding the busted Suby. It was the VDC (vehicle dynamic control) system that failed. She also had been experiencing oil burning problems as she had with the previous Subaru Outback so she was already regretting the purchase. Since her vehicle was only a couple years old, I guess Subaru is still having probable head gasket failure problems with the Boxer-4 engine.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

Keep It Simple
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Keep It Simple » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:15 am

Browser wrote: She also had been experiencing oil burning problems as she had with the previous Subaru Outback so she was already regretting the purchase. Since her vehicle was only a couple years old, I guess Subaru is still having probable head gasket failure problems with the Boxer-4 engine.
I don't think so...and there is no evidence that this is the case. Your friend got a lemon. No manufacturer is perfect and they all will have a lemon or two in each model. That doesn't mean all of the cars in that model have this problem. I'd buy a Subaru today if it fit my needs, regardless of your friends' one data point. Most of the posters on this thread have overwhelmingly stated they love their Subaru and have had few if any problems. Consumer reports backs this up with their data. Subaru is one of the most reliable auto manufacturers operating today. Nissan is not...but don't trust me, look at what Consumer Reports says about them.

K.I.S.

Wiess
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Wiess » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:08 am

I have a 2010 Forester which we purchased new and have driven in 170,000 km. So far this year we had two major repairs - head gaskets and catalytic converter - which cost in excess of $3,000. We also had numerous brake issues, body panel squeaks that required removal of the rear interior and welding, interior squeaks, wheel bearings, and other minor annoyances.

Compare that with our 2005 Honda CRV which we also purchased new and have driven 320,000 km so far. The annual maintenance costs are still lower and we have not done any major repairs, only maintenance items. It still rides as good, if not better, than the Forester.

I will not purchase another Subaru

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friar1610
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by friar1610 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Interesting thread for me.

I currently have a 2005 Volvo XC-70 (AWD) wagon. Bought it when I lived in Vermont because I wanted the AWD for the snow and good rooftop carrying capacity for our kayaks. It's been a decent car but Volvos have gotten a bit too pricey for me. Only have 125K miles on it so I plan to keep it for a few more years.

But in looking around (on the highway, not the dealer) for potential replacements, the Subaru Outback wagon seems like a good, lower cost alternative to the Volvo. AWD for the snowy roads (now Mass, not VT) and still have the kayaks.

I asked my independent repair shop what he thought of Subarus once when I was having the Volvo worked on. He said that they were tough to work on from a mechanic's point of view. Said that to do a few jobs (can't remember just what - maybe changing the timing belt and water pump?), he'd have to pull the engine to get access because there was so little clearance on either side of the engine block. That sounded like potential big bills for relatively routine items.

Anyway, nothing to add to this thread but I'll be paying attention to anything written about Outbacks.
Friar1610

flyingbison
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by flyingbison » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:33 pm

Friar, you might want to check out the forums at subaruoutback.org Keep in mind that the 2015 model was a redesign, so it will probably take a while for the quirks/problems of the current generation to surface.

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friar1610
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by friar1610 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:28 pm

flyingbison wrote:Friar, you might want to check out the forums at subaruoutback.org Keep in mind that the 2015 model was a redesign, so it will probably take a while for the quirks/problems of the current generation to surface.

Thank you; I'll do that.
Friar1610

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rustymutt
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by rustymutt » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:20 pm

Will what does Edmunds, or Cars.com have to say about Subaru. I'm not an owner, but know many family members who are, and they love them. They gained pretty credits in these online data banks.
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Anon1234
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Anon1234 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:59 pm

Browser wrote:... Any similar tales of woe regarding the Suby? I'm wondering what sort of problem would cause these symptoms. It's now on my "Do Not Buy" list after hearing this narrative.
Check the gas cap for looseness or torn gasket. If the emissions system detects a fuel tank pressure problem the whole stinking dash lights up and scares you to death.

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TT
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by TT » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:45 am

friar1610 wrote:Interesting thread for me.

I currently have a 2005 Volvo XC-70 (AWD) wagon. Bought it when I lived in Vermont because I wanted the AWD for the snow and good rooftop carrying capacity for our kayaks. It's been a decent car but Volvos have gotten a bit too pricey for me. Only have 125K miles on it so I plan to keep it for a few more years.

But in looking around (on the highway, not the dealer) for potential replacements, the Subaru Outback wagon seems like a good, lower cost alternative to the Volvo. AWD for the snowy roads (now Mass, not VT) and still have the kayaks.

I asked my independent repair shop what he thought of Subarus once when I was having the Volvo worked on. He said that they were tough to work on from a mechanic's point of view. Said that to do a few jobs (can't remember just what - maybe changing the timing belt and water pump?), he'd have to pull the engine to get access because there was so little clearance on either side of the engine block. That sounded like potential big bills for relatively routine items.

Anyway, nothing to add to this thread but I'll be paying attention to anything written about Outbacks.
2010 - 2012 Subaru 2.5 liter 4 cylinders have a timing belt that needs replacement @ 105,000miles
New belt, tensioners /idlers, crank seal, cam seal, water pump, reseal oil pump. All of this typically runs in the $700-$1200 range depending if you use a Dealer or independent repair shop. It may not be necessary to perform all of the above.
2013 - 2015 Subaru 2.5 liter 4 cylinders and the 3.6 6 cylinders have a timing chain with no scheduled replacement.

Here is a comparison of 2014 models Volvo xc70 vs Subaru Outback 6 cylinder Limited and 4 cylinder Premium:
http://autos.aol.com/cars-compare?cur_p ... =&mileage=

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:50 am

Checked with a local dealer for a test drive of the 2015 Outback recently, and they didn't have any available. Says they are selling as quickly as they get them in. They are not participating in the VIP discount program with this vehicle because of the demand, and probably not discounting much or at all from MSRP. That's a non-starter for me, even if I really wanted to buy one.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

Pinotage
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Pinotage » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:27 pm

Browser wrote:Checked with a local dealer for a test drive of the 2015 Outback recently, and they didn't have any available. Says they are selling as quickly as they get them in. They are not participating in the VIP discount program with this vehicle because of the demand, and probably not discounting much or at all from MSRP. That's a non-starter for me, even if I really wanted to buy one.
If you are truly interested, perhaps try another dealer or wait until one is available to test drive at your local dealer.

If you are truly interested, recognize that it isn't uncommon for new, in-demand models to sell at or above MSRP. A higher volume dealer may be more flexible on price.

If you are not truly interested, what is the point of continuing this thread?

toys4tots16
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by toys4tots16 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:36 pm

You shouldn't pay anywhere near MSRP. I just ordered a 2015 Outback Premium with the eye sight and a bunch of other adders. MSRP is around $30k and my price is just under $27k for everything except tax.

MP173
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by MP173 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:46 pm

We were in Vermont this summer and Subarus were everywhere. When asked an owner told us due to the mountains and snow.

There are no mountains in NW Indiana, but snow is plentiful, so we are seriously considering an Outback or Forester for my wife. She commutes 30 miles daily and babies her cars. She drives carefully and has dealership perform maintenance. She currently drives a Honda Element (long story as to why).

We test drove Saturday and I liked it, as did she. Great roominess ( she is 6'0" and I am 6'7"). I sat in the backseat for awhile and was comfy. There were just a couple on the lot. These cars seem to be moving quickly.

After testing both, we will probably go with the Outback if we go in that direction. Also looking at a Ford Edge.

Comments?

Ed

Browser
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Browser » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:12 pm

Edge has pretty lousy reliability ratings, as do most of the Ford SUVs for some reason. But I see a lot of them around. Then again, I see people buying new homes that are built right next to freeways. It seems like anything they build, people will buy.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

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tc101
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by tc101 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:09 pm

I am thinking about buying a new 2015 Suburu Legacy. Reading over this topic has been reassuring.
. | The most important thing you should know about me is that I am not an expert.

Clumsum
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Clumsum » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:07 pm

We have a 2014 Outback with 5500 miles. Radio which includes backup camera has been replaced twice under warranty.

dbr
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by dbr » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:20 pm

There is no such thing as a car that is immune to problems. If you want a problem free vehicle no choice you make can guarantee that. If such a thing is a requirement then figuring out how to avoid owning and using cars might be the indicated approach.

Note that you can gather reams of anecdotal testimony that vehicle x both has problems and never has problems, but that doesn't mean anything.

MnD
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by MnD » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:53 pm

nbseer wrote:2003 Forester now with 212,000 miles.. had to have head gaskets replaced twice (!) , and now, various things are wearing out (wheel bearings) which I guess is to be expected. Now retired, don't have to drive 50 miles r-t every day, hope to get to 300,000 miles!
Three Subaru owner since 1997. Love them but........
Clutch, wheel bearings, catalytic converters and especially head gaskets were the weak spots in the late 90's through mid-late 2000's models.
Subaru has claimed to have addressed all these issues, but only time will tell. If you live in place with lots of Subaru's you can find specialized Subaru mechanics who can diagnose and fix the usual Subaru problems much better and for much less money than the dealerships.

They are relatively trouble free but they are not Toyota/Honda class reliability once they get over six-figures on the odometer.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by DaftInvestor » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:39 pm

telemark wrote:
Toons wrote:Consider a Toyota or Honda :happy
Sudden acceleration? Transmission failures? Some auto makers are better than others, but none of them is perfect.
...not to mention exploding air bags....

I've had far less trouble with my two current subaru's than prior Hondas or Toyota's. I believe all three brands are solid overall....may have some trouble with any car....

itstoomuch
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by itstoomuch » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:42 pm

DS bought Mazda3 itouring 2015, over a Subaru. He does considerable skiing and hiking. He says he gets 41 mpg on freeway. Mazda' s SkyActiv™ engine is pretty good.

correct model year to 2015 from '14.
Last edited by itstoomuch on Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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randomguy
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by randomguy » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:03 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
telemark wrote:
Toons wrote:Consider a Toyota or Honda :happy
Sudden acceleration? Transmission failures? Some auto makers are better than others, but none of them is perfect.
...not to mention exploding air bags....

I've had far less trouble with my two current subaru's than prior Hondas or Toyota's. I believe all three brands are solid overall....may have some trouble with any car....

Chevy Caviler. 220k miles with nothing other than normal maintence
Dodge Carvan: 180k miles with nothign but normal maintence

All of these one off are useless. You need detailed surveys across thousands of cars AND you need to understand what the survey is measuring. For example a couple years ago the Hummer H2 scored poorly in the 1 year quality survey. What was the complaint that most people had: poor gas mileage. :oops:

What is even more fun is when you look at 3 or 4 of these surveys (CR, JD, true delta, and so on) and you can see drastically different results. Even more fun is to track how a car model changes. That car you buy might get 5 stars when you buy it but 5 years later it is a low reliability car because they messed something up. There are general trends (toyota and hondas do well) but there are exception models and engines. For example Acura is way down this year as the new TLX and RLX are having some transmission and electronics issues. Give them 2 years and they will probably be back to standard honda quality.

Clumsum
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Clumsum » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:01 am

2014 outback with 5,500 miles. Radio/backup camera has been replaced twice under warranty.

blevine
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by blevine » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:41 am

Former Toyota fan here who was converted to Subaru.

Had a 1990 Camry and then 1998 Sienna.
Both excellent reliable cars, but Toyota got very big and in the next decade,
while still very good, not as good as the reputation they built in the 90s.

I tried Subaru in 2000, mainly because I was doing more driving in snow than previously.
While my 2000 Outback did have one problem that was never resolved (factory recall
did not fix the O2 sensor problem that led to engine stalls), otherwise excellent car.
I managed to drive it for 12 years and traded for a new one in 2012.
The 2012 now has over 50k miles and is our main family car. Love it in every way,
have not had a single problem with it.

After my good experience with the 2012, bought a 2014 Forester.
Not so many miles yet, but enough to say I love this car as well.

Just as happy with my 201x Subarus as my 199x Toyotas.

I would still consider Honda or Toyota.
The only other car I considered recently was Honda, but for AWD hard to beat Subaru.

tjwolf
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by tjwolf » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:52 am

Only thought about a Subaru - not bought one due to the problems discussed above.
If you buy one you should consider the VIP program below. 2% below dealer invoice on the car and options. Few can match that level of discount w/o serious shopping efforts.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 8eOxEVIrYw
Tom

dbr
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by dbr » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:02 pm

It would be a good idea to open a set of threads "Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Lexus, MB, Audi, . . . . . blues." Then we would have enough comments to make no decision at all.

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Ged
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Re: Subaru Blues

Post by Ged » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:22 pm

denovo wrote:
Toons wrote:Consider a Toyota or Honda :happy

Browser, I wouldn't make any generalizations over an entire brand or even within a model. Look at Honda, which some here consider to be the gold-standard of reliability as noted by the comment I quoted above. Their first generation of SUV's (CRV, Pilot, Passport) were not that reliable, but improved with future developments.
Yes, I agree with this sentiment. The early Honda SUVs like the Passport were not even made by Honda, they were rebadged Isuzus. You really need to know where the car is coming from.

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