Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

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SpringMan
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Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:17 am

We are down to one camera, a Pentax DSLR, which I use and like a lot. My wife does not feel comfortable with using large DSLR style cameras so we started looking at smaller mirrorless cameras. Have looked at Canon EOS M which can be small with a pancake lens and can be purchased for only about $300. Reviews are not too favorable regarding slow auto focus. Looking at Samsung NX2000 around they same price, they use microSD card, too small to be constantly physically be popping in and out but they have wireless and USB transfer options. Also looking at Sony NEX 6. Olympus, Panasonic and Fuji have more expensive options. My attraction to mirrorless is that they use DSLR sized sensors and should perform better than point and shoots. Would be interested in hearing experiences of others.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by martiansteeler » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:49 am

I've been shooting with an Olympus EP-3 for almost three years now...and almost that entire time exclusively. I made the move from a Nikon D-80 kit...and am to the point where I am ready to sell all of my Nikon glass. At the time, the benefit to the Olympus was that you could use Olympus or Panasonic lenses...Fuji, Samsung and the Nikon mirrorless had just come on the market and had few lens options. I think i would still rule out the Nikon, due to the much smaller sensor size.

For the most part,I can do everything with my Olympus that I could with my Nikon. Focusing is a little slower in low-light situations...but I understand the newer sensors are better at that. I carry it a heck of a lot more, so I am taking more photos and really falling in love with photography again.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Lynette » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:10 am

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SpringMan
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:13 am

Thanks, I have always been a fan of Olympus cameras. The EP3 is still available on Amazon for a reasonable price. This will be on my shortlist. Panasonic G3 micro 4/3 is too.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by jackholloway » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

I love my Olympus OM-D E-M5. With a pancake lens, it fits in a coat picket. With the f1.2 45mm prime, it take absolutely beautiful pictures comparable to my previous Canon DSLR.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Lynette » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:53 am

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Professor Emeritus » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:27 am

SpringMan wrote:Thanks, I have always been a fan of Olympus cameras. The EP3 is still available on Amazon for a reasonable price. This will be on my shortlist. Panasonic G3 micro 4/3 is too.
We own a Panasonic G3, 2 GF2s and 3 GH2s. We own 2 sets of the 4 key lenses 20 mm 14-42 pancake 14-140 100-300

We use the external EVFs on the GF2 cameras.

the g3 mates very well with the 14-42 lens. superb snapshot camera of indoor and general tourism.

The GH2 with the 100-300 is an wonderful camera for animal photography

We leave for Kruger National park on Friday with the 3 GH3 and one GF2.

I have owned many fine Olympus cameras. I think Panasonic just has an edge in the overall anti shake area.

newkidontheblock
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by newkidontheblock » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:38 am

Another vote for Olympus cameras. I purchased Olympus OMD E5 2 years ago and I still very pleased with the picture quality.
You can use the same lens on Olympus OMD and other Olympus cameras.
Mirrorless cameras have come a long way in the past few years. Panasonic and Olympus are by far the two brands I like the most.
Their lenses can be used with each other.
I own these lenses
Panasonic 14mm
Panasonic 25mm
Olympus 45mm
Olympus 12-50
Olympus 40-150

If changing lenses is not as important to you another camera I recommend is Sony RX100 line of cameras.
I own Sony RX100 version. This year Sony RX100 III came out.

On my trips I take both.

Cameras on phones have improved a lot over the years but I still don't expect them to replace the dedicated cameras.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by MDfive21 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:45 am

i've been using a nikon 1 j2 for a year and a half. it's a small bodied, portable camera for outdoor use with quick auto focus and vibrant color. i have the 10-30mm and 30-110mm lenses and i'm pretty happy with them outdoors. maybe if i had one of the faster lenses i would be happier with this camera indoors.

cons are the proprietary RAW format (have to use the crappy nikon software to convert), and if i know i'll be shooting indoors i'll take my wife's little point/shoot instead of the j2. also, if you like an eyepiece, you're out of luck with this camera.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Lynette » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:48 am

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by solidwasteengineer » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 am

My friend sold off his entire Canon DSLR and lens collection and went with the Olympus OMD series camera and their lenses. He is very happy with the change due to decreased weight and portability and minimal loss of image quality.

I use Fuji X100s which is a great street photography camera and night time/indoor camera that can give you shallow depth of field. It is a fixed 23mm lens. I also carry around the Sony RX100 which is very portable and can zoom and great for travel, it is not as good for indoor or night time shots though.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by TareNeko » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:01 am

I have a NEX7. I am very happy with its picture quality and compactness. It has 2 issues:

1- There is no separate sensor for auto-focus. Also, AF is done by contrast, not phase. As a result, focusing at dim light conditions take long time. Especially if you are trying to take a picture of a moving object at dim light, the success rate is very low. I believe some of the latest NEX models have the phase detection, but I am not sure if it works well.
2- The small size do not give you the handling you are used to get in a DSLR

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by BillyG » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:23 am

I was about to jump into mirrorless territory but instead bought a Sony RX100. The Sony has a much larger sensor than the compacts but not as large as the mirrorless cameras. The photo quality is really good and the electronics, focusing and processing are superb. The lens is not interchangeable but in exchange you get a high quality camera that fits in your pocket, which you cannot do with a mirrorless camera. It does not do long zoom so if you do wildlife photography skip the RX100. It is not cheap but it is great to be able to take it everywhere. It's a great travel camera and the photo quality is so good I rarely use my DSLR.
Billy

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by chrysogonus » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:35 am

I have a Canon EOS M. The autofocus is a little slow, but otherwise it's comparable to a DSLR (except it's a lot smaller). It can even use all my Canon lenses with an adaptor. The sensor is the same size as some of the Canon DSLRs, so the image quality is great.

If that's what you want you want, I'd advise waiting a bit, as there are rumors of an EOS M3 coming out soon.

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Buy the best

Post by davebarnes » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:01 pm

http://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/ ... -M/Details
"features a newly-designed, high resolution, 24-Megapixel CMOS sensor in full 35 mm format"
Image
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SpringMan
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:02 pm

I found a Fuji X-A1 camera with two lenses, Fuji 16-50 f3.5-5.6 and Fuji 50-230 f4-f6.7 on Amazon for $499. Now sitting in my Amazon basket. On the down side, Amazon says it could take 3 weeks or more. The Olympus OMD is one of the best but is higher than my budget. Still have not pulled the trigger. Thanks for all the replies.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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SpringMan
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:07 pm

LEICA M body only at Amazon is $6950. No doubt a terrific camera but too rich for my blood :happy .
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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SpringMan
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:30 pm

Thanks all,
Just submitted my order for the Fuji X-A1 with the two lenses mentioned above. Hope it is not a mistake.
Wife said go for it :happy .
Best Wishes, SpringMan

nordsteve
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by nordsteve » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:55 pm

SpringMan wrote:LEICA M body only at Amazon is $6950. No doubt a terrific camera but too rich for my blood :happy .
You'll need some lenses, which will take you up in the high teens. Unless you've already got a set :)

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:06 pm

MDfive21 wrote:cons are the proprietary RAW format (have to use the crappy nikon software to convert), and if i know i'll be shooting indoors i'll take my wife's little point/shoot instead of the j2. also, if you like an eyepiece, you're out of luck with this camera.
You generally don't have to use the Nikon software with RAW. I've used 3 different Nikon cameras and have always shot RAW except for things which I could re-take or which didn't matter (RAW is much more forgiving of exposure errors than JPEG). I have NEVER used the Nikon software, which I agree is kind of crappy. There are many 3rd party converters, all of the Photoshop flavors convert on the fly (even PS Elements), and you can download codecs so that even file manager (I'm on PC) will display RAW thumbnails.

I'm not familiar with the particular camera or its low-light performance, so I can't comment on that.
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Professor Emeritus » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:08 pm

Lynette wrote: I went back recently on a visit to my relatives and felt sorry for the African guide as some tourists expected to see the "Big Five" in one day. It is not a zoo! "
:happy well its a ZOO but not a "zoological park" :happy

Biggest advantage of the Panasonic in Kruger is the short length, low weight and fast response of the long telephoto. You are hand shooting in a car. I got a "species recognition photo" of a Cheetah at 1000 meters.

Last trip we did see the big 5 BEFORE BREAKFAST from Lower Sabie.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by pennstater2005 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:14 pm

SpringMan wrote:Thanks all,
Just submitted my order for the Fuji X-A1 with the two lenses mentioned above. Hope it is not a mistake.
Wife said go for it :happy .
Great reviews on the camera and you'll have 30 days from purchase to return it if you do t like it.
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by countofmc » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:23 pm

Should break it down by system :

Nikon - Their mirrorless cameras use 1 inch sensors (same as in the Sony RX-100), so IQ suffers compared to some other brands. I'd say Nikon isn't very compelling in this area, but sometimes their cameras can be found very cheap, and they have good autofocus.

Micro 4/3 - Shared tech between Olympus and Panasonic. One has the advantage of in-body stabilization, I forgot which (I think Oly). Sensors slightly smaller than the ubiquitious APS-C sensors found in most DSLRs, but IQ is on par. Prob fastest/ best autofocus of any mirrorless system, along with a terrific lens selection. Can't go wrong with M43, imo.

Canon - EOS M is the only thing they have. Uses APS-C sensor and is remarkably small. But AF lags, and lens selection is anemic (unless you want to use an adapter, in which case you get access to the awesome Canon lens lineup). Benefit is the native lenses the EOS M does have (18-55, 22mm prime) are very good.

Sony - features APS-C (E-mount) and "Full Frame" (FE-mount). Lens selection is improving, and adapters are available and 3rd party lenses work very well with the NEX system. The new A6000 is a very good value imo, and has very good auto focus. This is the brand I generally recommend to people.

Fuji - my personal favorite (I own an X100s). This is becoming a very close second to Sony in terms of what I recommend people. And that is because I think Sonys are a bit more user-friendly and less intimidating. But if you are a manual shooter, Fuji is much better. It is an "enthusiast" brand. They are also doing it "right" in my opinion, by offering some terrific lenses. None are duds. One huge advantage for the more "hobbyist" photographer that might just want to shoot in JPEG is that Fuji has the best straight out of camera JPEGs I've seen yet. Just produces lovely images. Yep, I'm a Fuji fan.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Lynette » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:36 pm

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:39 pm

Nice summary countofmc,
Samsung is another brand I looked closely at, the NX 2000 model. Amazon has a nice pink one for $299 with kit lens. Wife would like pink :happy I found several reviews where the Samsung got a refused to recognize lens error. That scarred me away from that model though the problem may have been the lens, not the camera. Also looking into the settings there seemed to not be any way to tell the camera to allow shooting without lens attached. That setting is needed if adapted lenses from other cameras are to be used. I have a large collection of Pentax K lenses that I may like to try out with an adapter.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by countofmc » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:42 pm

SpringMan wrote:Nice summary countofmc,
Samsung is another brand I looked closely at, the NX 2000 model. Amazon has a nice pink one for $299 with kit lens. Wife would like pink :happy I found several reviews where the Samsung got a refused to recognize lens error. That scarred me away from that model though the problem may have been the lens, not the camera. Also looking into the settings there seemed to not be any way to tell the camera to allow shooting without lens attached. That setting is needed if adapted lenses from other cameras are to be used. I have a large collection of Pentax K lenses that I may like to try out with an adapter.
Oh, I just saw you placed an order for the X-A1. Good choice! As I mentioned, I love Fuji!

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by tibbitts » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:11 pm

Since you own a Pentax, you're already aware of the biggest problem with most of these cameras: lack of lens availability. There's not that much advantage to lens interchangeability if there isn't a healthy lens market for your mount. Yes, I know that many ILCs can accept old adapted 35mm lenses, but usually with the loss of most or all automated functions. There's a reason the industry moved away from those preset/stop-down-metering/manual-focus lenses. So unless you're willing to accept life with adapted lenses, your decision of what ILC to buy is mostly dependent on what lenses are, or are likely to be, available.

Ironically a deciding factor for me in starting with a Pentax DSLR many years ago was lens availability, considering both some of the at-the-time fairly unique manufacturer lenses, and a wide assortment of 3rd party lenses. But subsequently I've become disenchanted with the quality of Pentax lenses, and 3rd party manufacturers have largely dropped Pentax. And the old Pentax mount lenses can't, for the most part, provide competitive performance with digital sensors. Quality control issues aside, newer lens designs are generally better. I think you're risking being in the same - or worse - situation with most ILCs today.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by novicemoney » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 pm

countofmc wrote:Should break it down by system :

Nikon - Their mirrorless cameras use 1 inch sensors (same as in the Sony RX-100), so IQ suffers compared to some other brands. I'd say Nikon isn't very compelling in this area, but sometimes their cameras can be found very cheap, and they have good autofocus.

Micro 4/3 - Shared tech between Olympus and Panasonic. One has the advantage of in-body stabilization, I forgot which (I think Oly). Sensors slightly smaller than the ubiquitious APS-C sensors found in most DSLRs, but IQ is on par. Prob fastest/ best autofocus of any mirrorless system, along with a terrific lens selection. Can't go wrong with M43, imo.

Canon - EOS M is the only thing they have. Uses APS-C sensor and is remarkably small. But AF lags, and lens selection is anemic (unless you want to use an adapter, in which case you get access to the awesome Canon lens lineup). Benefit is the native lenses the EOS M does have (18-55, 22mm prime) are very good.

Sony - features APS-C (E-mount) and "Full Frame" (FE-mount). Lens selection is improving, and adapters are available and 3rd party lenses work very well with the NEX system. The new A6000 is a very good value imo, and has very good auto focus. This is the brand I generally recommend to people.

Fuji - my personal favorite (I own an X100s). This is becoming a very close second to Sony in terms of what I recommend people. And that is because I think Sonys are a bit more user-friendly and less intimidating. But if you are a manual shooter, Fuji is much better. It is an "enthusiast" brand. They are also doing it "right" in my opinion, by offering some terrific lenses. None are duds. One huge advantage for the more "hobbyist" photographer that might just want to shoot in JPEG is that Fuji has the best straight out of camera JPEGs I've seen yet. Just produces lovely images. Yep, I'm a Fuji fan.
a very nice review of the different systems. I would add that these systems are not cheap. What you pay for is compactness and lighter weight of the kit. Particularly micro 4/3 where the lenses are relatively tiny but are of outstanding quality. Sony systems have small bodies but the lenses are still APS-C or full frame(A6000), meaning the lenses are large. The other systems have their advocates, but lens selection is not as good. If you are a point and shoot type that may not be a problem. I myself have an olympus EM5 with various olympus and panasonic lenses and am happy with the system. In summary you will pay a premium for smaller size. If this is important mirror less is the way to go.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by Gort » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:15 pm

I have a Pentax K3 and love the results. It's a bit heavy and I wanted something smaller. Bought a Sony Nex-6 but had trouble with some of their nicer Zeiss lenses not communicating with the camera. Returned it for full refund in 30 days. Heavily researched all the other cameras and bought an Olympus OMD-EM10. It is a blast to use, fun, small enough, and takes incredible pictures. I keep a small pancake lens on it most of the time but also have their 12-40/2.8 Pro lens. This is one incredible lens - best I have ever used including Pentax primes, Nikkors, and Sony products. It's an expensive lens for a short range zoom ($900) but well worth it. I find I carry my Oly more and more and the Pentax is staying home. As they say, the best camera is the one you have with you! The Oly menu is a little confusing at first but once you set it up, you rarely need to dig deep into the menus. If you get lost in the Oly menu there is an easy reset button which resets everything back to factory defaults (which work very well). I was worried about using an EVF (electronic view finder) on the Oly as compared to the optical view finder (OVF) on the Pentax but soon realized there are advantages to the EVF. When using the EVF you see what the sensor is seeing so any changes you make (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, filters...) are immediately reproduced in the EVF (as well as on the LCD should you prefer to use that instead) so you see the final image as you capture it. This is nice. When using the OVF, you see the captured image on the LCD after you capture the image.Good luck on your camera search.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by tibbitts » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:34 am

Since I haven't used an ILC, I'm wondering if dust is a worse problem than with a DSLR. It seems like no matter the range of my zooms, I end up changing lenses for every picture. Before automatic sensor cleaning, manual cleaning was sometimes a multiple-times-per-day affair for me if I was taking pictures all day. And that was horrible because it took forever to take a test image, scroll all around it on the lcd looking for dust, clean, repeat. When automatic sensor cleaning came in we also got dust alert along with it, and that's great because several times a day you can check for dust in a relatively short time. And now I have to manually clean much less often than on the older bodies. I'm assuming all the ILCs have a dust alert feature (more like dust detection, I'm not sure what each brand calls it), but do all ILCs have self-cleaning sensors, even the ones without in-body stabilization? If dust is a much bigger problem in some models/brands, that might be a purchasing consideration.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by midareff » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:39 am

I used Canon DSLR's for years from the Rebel line to 5DMKII with all L (pro) glass. First the pro gear, then the Rebel line got to be too heavy and cumbersome to travel with. The mirrorless Fuji X Pro 1 offered me equal image quality to the 5DMKII at less than half the weight. Their newer less expensive offerings produce equally stunning image quality and are well worth a look.

tidbits... give up the primes and go with zooms. Fuji's are universally excellent and reasonable comparable to Canon L glass which costs three times more. Other than that a "Rocket" sensor blower is a don't leave home without it.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by surfstar » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:06 am

While only skimming before replying:
I wholeheartedly recommend Olympus, with Fuji in second. The main reason: OOC jpgs. Translates into: the cameras take beautiful pictures and look great Out of Camera, without having to spent hours reviewing and "tweaking" photos on your computer. Unless you really want to play with Lightroom/etc for hours, I would avoid other brands. The difference is that great.
With Olympus, though, you can get a more value-priced mirrorless setup than Fuji currently. Just find whichever Oly camera fits your needs/budget/hand that comes with the 16mp 4/3 sensor. That's when they really improved their tech to compete with the big boys.

My $.02

edit- saw you went with the Fuji - nice choice. I always want a wide-angle lens to start at 24mm equiv. for landscapes and the 16-50mm does. Important personal point for myself. Enjoy!

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by linuxizer » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:35 am

Another only skimmed before replying, but I would not consider any mirrorless by Canon or Nikon. They've both deliberately held back features in order to protect their SLR lines.

I'd consider the Sony, m4/3, or Fuji systems. And if you're asking here, you don't want the Fuji system (think Leica, not P&S).

The Panasonic GF3 sells for $140 with lens right now. Get a 14/2.5 for it and it's pocketable, yet with image quality equivalent to an SLR of 3-4 years ago. I've printed some 16x20's with it, and they look great.

The advantage of the m4/3 system is the lenses (some incredible primes in particular, and a way bigger lineup than other mounts) and size: they come truly tiny (see GF3, GF5, E-PM1/2, and GM1). Disadvantage is a slightly smaller sensor, which means high-ISO shooting is always a half-generation behind. If you care about video, Panasonic is the way to go. Otherwise, either Oly, Panny, or Sony will do fine for most anything you can think of.

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SpringMan
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by SpringMan » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:40 pm

linuxizer wrote: ...
I'd consider the Sony, m4/3, or Fuji systems. And if you're asking here, you don't want the Fuji system (think Leica, not P&S).
...
I guess you may have missed my post where I ordered a Fuji system. I do appreciate your opinion on Fuji. I don't see where any new Panasonic G3 sells for $140 with a lens, obviously you are talking used. This camera is being purchased primarily for my wife. We found a good price on Amazon, $499 for Fuji X-A1 with two lenses, brand new so it does not break the bank. I have had point and shoot Fuji cameras in the past. They always took good photos but did have one crap out on me :( . It is always a gamble with electronics, I had a Pentax *istDS crap out on me too :( . It also gave good photos before it quit working. The Fuji X-A1 has good reviews, no EVF is the main negative. Wish me luck :) .
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by kenyan » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:57 pm

I just bought a Sony NEX-5TL for my wife for our anniversary. It was necessary to get a better camera to capture our growing children - cell phone cameras are convenient, but inadequate for many of the shots we have been taken lately (outdoors, imperfect lighting, and especially with moving targets, as young children often are).

It's now a generation old (with no replacement in the current generation, as the Alpha A5000 is inferior but the A6000 is too high-end for us), but hit the sweet spot for features, quality, price ($420 new on ebay), and convenience. Neither of us ever will be a photography enthusiast, and in order for the camera to get much use, it's got to be convenient, so small size and WiFi connection to smartphone were necessary. Very happy with it for the ~1 month we've owned it. Still learning our way around it, naturally. Congrats on the Fuji, though; hopefully you enjoy it as much as we like our Sony.
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by linuxizer » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:02 pm

SpringMan wrote:I guess you may have missed my post where I ordered a Fuji system. I do appreciate your opinion on Fuji. I don't see where any new Panasonic G3 sells for $140 with a lens, obviously you are talking used. This camera is being purchased primarily for my wife. We found a good price on Amazon, $499 for Fuji X-A1 with two lenses, brand new so it does not break the bank. I have had point and shoot Fuji cameras in the past. They always took good photos but did have one crap out on me :( . It is always a gamble with electronics, I had a Pentax *istDS crap out on me too :( . It also gave good photos before it quit working. The Fuji X-A1 has good reviews, no EVF is the main negative. Wish me luck :) .
Definitely missed that post, sorry.

GF3 refurb with lens for $140:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141375587614?ru ... 26_rdc%3D1

In a different size category entirely than the Fujis, NEX/alphas, or larger m4/3 cameras like the GX7, EM5, etc. Particuarly if you mount the pancake primes on it (14/2.5 or 20/1.7). Might be worth picking one up just for the purse.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by tibbitts » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:59 am

midareff wrote:I used Canon DSLR's for years from the Rebel line to 5DMKII with all L (pro) glass. First the pro gear, then the Rebel line got to be too heavy and cumbersome to travel with. The mirrorless Fuji X Pro 1 offered me equal image quality to the 5DMKII at less than half the weight. Their newer less expensive offerings produce equally stunning image quality and are well worth a look.

tidbits... give up the primes and go with zooms. Fuji's are universally excellent and reasonable comparable to Canon L glass which costs three times more. Other than that a "Rocket" sensor blower is a don't leave home without it.
I always carry a rocket blower, although it sometimes attracts unwanted attention from the TSA, since it looks like... a rocket.

I haven't owned Pentax primes since the M42 era,when I carried 5 (plus another prime.) In between I had a mix of Canon FD zooms and primes, and then went back to Pentax and essentially all zooms for digital. I've been disappointed in (current-era) Pentax lens quality, but also have little interest in carrying hefty bodies and lenses. I'm not sure why lenses have seemed to become bloated over the years, but that was one of the appeals of Pentax and APS-C - seemingly less-bloated bodies and lenses.

I'm hesitant to get involved with yet another soon-to-be-dead-end lens system. It's not like the old days when it seemed like 3rd party manufacturers supported many mounts almost equally, and all the manufacturers seemed to offer fairly comparable wide-ranging lens selections, and the mounts seemed to have fairly long lifetimes. I'm guessing the 3rd-party issues are partly due to mount complexity - it's probably more difficult to reverse-engineer the electronics today than the mechanical linkages of the past. Obviously you can adapt even the most abandoned old FF mount lenses to the newer smaller-sensor bodies, but with almost total loss of automated functioning. I'm ok with manual focus if I have the equivalent of one of the better FF viewfinders, but generally insist on features like auto-aperture and wide-open metering.

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midareff
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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by midareff » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:16 am

tibbitts wrote:
midareff wrote:I used Canon DSLR's for years from the Rebel line to 5DMKII with all L (pro) glass. First the pro gear, then the Rebel line got to be too heavy and cumbersome to travel with. The mirrorless Fuji X Pro 1 offered me equal image quality to the 5DMKII at less than half the weight. Their newer less expensive offerings produce equally stunning image quality and are well worth a look.

tidbits... give up the primes and go with zooms. Fuji's are universally excellent and reasonable comparable to Canon L glass which costs three times more. Other than that a "Rocket" sensor blower is a don't leave home without it.
I always carry a rocket blower, although it sometimes attracts unwanted attention from the TSA, since it looks like... a rocket.

I haven't owned Pentax primes since the M42 era,when I carried 5 (plus another prime.) In between I had a mix of Canon FD zooms and primes, and then went back to Pentax and essentially all zooms for digital. I've been disappointed in (current-era) Pentax lens quality, but also have little interest in carrying hefty bodies and lenses. I'm not sure why lenses have seemed to become bloated over the years, but that was one of the appeals of Pentax and APS-C - seemingly less-bloated bodies and lenses.

I'm hesitant to get involved with yet another soon-to-be-dead-end lens system. It's not like the old days when it seemed like 3rd party manufacturers supported many mounts almost equally, and all the manufacturers seemed to offer fairly comparable wide-ranging lens selections, and the mounts seemed to have fairly long lifetimes. I'm guessing the 3rd-party issues are partly due to mount complexity - it's probably more difficult to reverse-engineer the electronics today than the mechanical linkages of the past. Obviously you can adapt even the most abandoned old FF mount lenses to the newer smaller-sensor bodies, but with almost total loss of automated functioning. I'm ok with manual focus if I have the equivalent of one of the better FF viewfinders, but generally insist on features like auto-aperture and wide-open metering.
I hear you.... I use (besides the excellent Fuji glass) some of the classic Minolta and Minolta Leica glass when I'm in a manual focus mood. Rest of the time it's a 2 lens Fuji glass kit and a BlackRapid strap.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by linuxizer » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:44 am

tibbitts wrote:I'm hesitant to get involved with yet another soon-to-be-dead-end lens system.
4/3 has been around since the early aughts, and Olympus went to pretty impresive lengths to make their 4/3 lenses work well on their newest m4/3 camera.

Going to stop now before I start sounding like a fanboi.

I do disagree with your characterization of the market of the past (at least once it moved from screw mount to bayonet). It was always clear that you bought into Nikon for the system, and Nikon did ridiculous things to ensure their system was the broadest and maintained compatibility all the way back to the non-AI lenses, including probably losing a lot of money on the more exotic lenses just to have the broadest system. Canon seems to have copied that strategy, but caught up by being higher tech.

Everyone else had much smaller lens systems, and there were plenty that went in and out. We just remember the ones that survived.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by midareff » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:54 am

linuxizer wrote:
tibbitts wrote:I'm hesitant to get involved with yet another soon-to-be-dead-end lens system.
4/3 has been around since the early aughts, and Olympus went to pretty impresive lengths to make their 4/3 lenses work well on their newest m4/3 camera.

Going to stop now before I start sounding like a fanboi.

I do disagree with your characterization of the market of the past (at least once it moved from screw mount to bayonet). It was always clear that you bought into Nikon for the system, and Nikon did ridiculous things to ensure their system was the broadest and maintained compatibility all the way back to the non-AI lenses, including probably losing a lot of money on the more exotic lenses just to have the broadest system. Canon seems to have copied that strategy, but caught up by being higher tech.

Everyone else had much smaller lens systems, and there were plenty that went in and out. We just remember the ones that survived.
LOL, and then find their glass and adaptors on eBay. I have been the Oly and Panny route over the years linuxizer. BTW, I shoot raw exclusively.... Panny 4/3's would never give me realistic colors, everything was just off IMHO. Oly was better but Fuji got the call on mirrorless on IQ and glass quality. I do see an Oly fanboi here so don't flame back.... it's all person to person subjective.

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Re: Any Opinions on Mirrorless Cameras?

Post by interplanetjanet » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:52 pm

countofmc wrote:Fuji - my personal favorite (I own an X100s). This is becoming a very close second to Sony in terms of what I recommend people. And that is because I think Sonys are a bit more user-friendly and less intimidating. But if you are a manual shooter, Fuji is much better. It is an "enthusiast" brand. They are also doing it "right" in my opinion, by offering some terrific lenses. None are duds. One huge advantage for the more "hobbyist" photographer that might just want to shoot in JPEG is that Fuji has the best straight out of camera JPEGs I've seen yet. Just produces lovely images. Yep, I'm a Fuji fan.
Nice summary!

I own an X100 and I do have to agree - Fuji has done some truly excellent things, especially after the latest firmware updates. However...the user interfaces can be a little quirky. If you're an enthusiast/manual shooter, you'll adapt to the quirkiness and love the control and physical interface.

It's also worth noting that "mirrorless" covers a wide range in size and heft. One of my criteria when I bought my X100 was that I wanted a camera small enough so that I didn't feel silly if I took it with me somewhere and didn't end up using it, and it delivered. I love how it just drops into my purse.

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