Who else hates choosing a car?

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SilverDollars
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by SilverDollars » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:36 am

amd2135 wrote:I agree that the Model 3 is a very attractive vehicle from many angles. I'm saving to buy one or something similar about 8-10 years from now.

Until then, I've got my Mazda6. It's a safe, reliable vehicle I love to drive even just for the sake of driving. It gets great gas mileage (33 mpg for me at worst). I swap winter tires on when there's snow and I get around better than I did in my old 4WD GMC Envoy (with all seasons). It's a great vehicle.
I actually find the Mazda 6 to be quite attractive myself. Did you opt for the Grand Touring, which has an MSRP of 31K or so? Or the Base models that are in the 21-14K range? The Grand Touring starts to get close to the price of a Tesla Model 3 (35K).

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Fieldsy1024
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Fieldsy1024 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:21 pm

Make a list of what is most important to you.
speed?
fuel mpg?
comfort?
size?
good review history?
safety?

Find 5-6 cars that fit what youd like. Compare them to the final 2-3. etc

btenny
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by btenny » Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:24 pm

I am having similar car selections issues as well. Got rid of my old comfortable Jeep GC in 2013 and replaced it with new Subaru Outback. The old Jeep was great in the snow and mountains and was comfortable but got poor MPG. Well the Subaru gets good MPG and is good in the snow and mountains but is not very comfortable. So now the Subaru is 3 years old and the lease is up and we need to buy that car or lease/buy another car.

We are completely tied up trying to figure out what to do. All the new cars that are comfortable are crazy expensive to buy and maintain and don't get good MPG. Cars like the MB ML350 or the Lexus RX350 and the Acura MDX. All over $52K. Crazy that you have to spend that much to get a car with good front seats and room for four (for dinner dates) and a good amount of luggage for long trips. Oh and forget good MPG unless you spend even more to get diesel or hybrid versions. And then to further complicate things all these new cars are loaded with expensive hard to use "safety features".

What happened to comfortable cars for the middle class??

anoop
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by anoop » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:53 pm

I never buy a used car because I've heard too many horror stories. The latest horror story was a guy who bought a car from Carmax and only found out it had been wrecked and suffered frame damage when he was trying to trade it in at another dealer!

I don't really have a formula for buying cars (I thought I did, but now I know better).

First off, I really enjoy driving. I would do a lot more of it if my health permitted. When I was younger, I could easily put 30K miles a year on a car. Second, I am probably far from the average demographic--single, no kids.

My first new car (when I could afford one) was a 1998 Honda Civic. I had planned to drive it into the ground. I had several minor accidents in the car. Eventually at 122K I had another minor accident, but instead of getting it fixed, I asked for it to be totaled. My next car was a 2003 BMW 325i. I loved that car. I thought I'd replace it when it got to 100K miles because of BMW's being known for being expensive to fix, but because the newer models started using run flat tires and came without a spare (my car had a full size spare that I used a few times), I kept the car longer. One more generation of BMWs and now they changed the steering to electric (from hydraulic) and the car was no longer fun to drive. I looked everywhere, but still the best thing around seemed to be another BMW. So at 222K miles and almost 11 years later, I got my next BMW--a 2014 328i. It was no fun and I went through severe buyers remorse because the handling of the old car was just not there. The car turned out to be lemon, and BMW bought it back. I ended up getting a 2015 328i, this time spec'ed the right way to give the best possible driving experience. That is what I drive now. I have no idea what I will get next and when I will get it.

I hate car shopping because I think they are over-marketed nowadays (in fact, I think every area of the economy is that way). Pretty much the entire economy is set up to disappoint the informed consumer. It's a lot better to be ignorant, but I think I screwed up on that aspect a long time ago when I chose the red pill. It's not possible to go back...

To sum it all up, I hate shopping for anything--cars, phones, computers, houses, you name it. With respect to cars, I love to drive and I will always look for something fun and buy it new. But I know I will never be as excited as I was when I first got my 2003 325i.

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whodidntante
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by whodidntante » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:18 pm

cheese_breath wrote:I love choosing cars. I buy them so infrequently choosing a new one is a great pleasure. I used to hate haggling with the salesmen before I joined GM. But now as a GM retiree that's a thing of the past so long as I stay with GM cars, and there's enough variety in their models to keep me happy.
For those who want a Ford without haggling, you can get an x plan PIN as a Ford shareholder. This is great for their pricier cars. It will get a $3,000 discount on the Mustang I want. You need to hold 100 shares for 6 months. That runs about $1360 right now.

Mudpuppy
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:48 pm

SilverDollars wrote:So ... I actually found a car I think I like. The Tesla Model 3. Has the AWD option, EV so the fuel efficiency is off the charts, very minimal maintenance costs without the combustion engine, and has the style. I would have to wait until likely early 2018 to get one as they will be backed up for a while ... and that gives me motivation to try to stretch my ownership of this Pilot out to 14 years by that time, making it a very low TCO over that period for the 28K I paid for it.

I put down a $1K deposit with Tesla, and it's refundable if I decide later I changed my mind. Tesla cars do have some problems ... especially the newer Model X, so if the same situation is happening with the 3, I may back out. I also will want to see it and sit in it before I buy it. But for the first time, I see a car I like for all of the right reasons, and not compromising on areas I care about.
I would suspect interior space might be the biggest issue for you, since you that's been a concern in other cars. I'm not convinced that moving the seats forward in the car will actually give that much more space to the front passengers, as Tesla as claimed in press releases for the Model 3. The reviews from places that have test driven the March prototype are rather silent on this front too. So definitely sit in it and test drive it before buying to make sure you aren't too cramped in the space.

randomguy
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by randomguy » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:06 pm

btenny wrote:I am having similar car selections issues as well. Got rid of my old comfortable Jeep GC in 2013 and replaced it with new Subaru Outback. The old Jeep was great in the snow and mountains and was comfortable but got poor MPG. Well the Subaru gets good MPG and is good in the snow and mountains but is not very comfortable. So now the Subaru is 3 years old and the lease is up and we need to buy that car or lease/buy another car.

We are completely tied up trying to figure out what to do. All the new cars that are comfortable are crazy expensive to buy and maintain and don't get good MPG. Cars like the MB ML350 or the Lexus RX350 and the Acura MDX. All over $52K. Crazy that you have to spend that much to get a car with good front seats and room for four (for dinner dates) and a good amount of luggage for long trips. Oh and forget good MPG unless you spend even more to get diesel or hybrid versions. And then to further complicate things all these new cars are loaded with expensive hard to use "safety features".

What happened to comfortable cars for the middle class??
The middle class has never bought luxury cars like MB, Lexus's and Acuras. You can pick up an accord for like 25k that seats 4 adults and a good amount of lugagge. For 30k you can get a minivan that sets 4 and more room than just about anything else out there. Or pick up another grand Cherokee for about the same. Obviously it all comes down to your definition of "good" seats. Unfortunately if you are like me, you definition of good is getting better faster than mainstream cars are improving:)

I can't imagine what you find hard to use about blind sport monitoring (i.e. a light pops up), adaptive lights take about 30 mins to get used to and you don't have to do anything, or AEB (don't notice it until you are about to crash into someone). Lane Keeping is the only safety (not convience features like adaptive cruise control) that might be remotely hard to use that I can think of. And it isn't like that is super crazy either. You just need to learn to use your blinker before lane changes:)

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ladders11
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by ladders11 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:25 pm

My experience - just sold my paid-off Corolla on CL after 10 years and 106k miles. Bought a Ford C-Max Hybrid, used with 35k miles. Spent months searching because I could not find anything I really liked, wanting more space, passenger comfort, leather, and NAV but not wanting a large car that would be harder to park (live in an urban area and park in a tight garage). Didn't initially consider the C-Max because they are out of my price range when new, and there aren't many used available - so after all that searching, I found out about the C-Max one day, tested and bought it the next.

After getting the money for my old car, it was $11k net for the "new-to-me" C-Max and upgraded my MPGs from probably 28 to 44. Hope to get 5-7 good years out of it but you never know. Hoping it ages well and doesn't need much fixing.
SilverDollars wrote:I had always said I was looking for a car that didn't really exist, I wanted AWD, plus gas mileage, plus style. Cars like the Subaru met several of the requirements, but not the style (and they are notoriously a small fit inside for a lrger guy like me). Lexus style didn't sell me either. Cars like the Audi meet most of the requirements, except the fact they are very expensive to maintain and not very good on fuel.
If you can live without the AWD look at a C-Max. Part of my frustration in searching was just feeling I am too big/claustrophobic for the midsize sedans; my new car feels huge inside. For snow traction just do snow tires, which CR says is better than AWD anyhow.

If you really want the AWD, consider a Buick Encore CUV. Quiet ride with luxury trim.

At this point, due to being a particular shopper, I feel I know more about cars than most of the people employed in selling them.

SurferLife
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by SurferLife » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:28 am

I have been driving a 2000 Toyota 4Runner for the last 12 years and love it because it's paid for, I can haul stuff and it's reliable. I also drive in snow and it is awesome for that. However, at 230k miles, I see the end of its life approaching, unfortunately. I despise car shopping and for the sake of convenience, I'll probably just get another used 4Runner and put 200k miles on it again. I'm moving and retiring in Texas/California, so a 4x4 is not really needed anymore, and I'm really wondering if I wouldn't be better choosing a boring hybrid or something with better gas mileage. I don't really know what the cost savings of better gas mileage would be, so I should look at that. The problem though is that I'm frugal, and don't' want to spend very much money as I'm 3 years away from early retirement. If there's a relatively inexpensive hybrid that would pay for itself rather quickly, I'd highly consider it. I'm very interested in what you'll choose to do, so please keep us updated. Nice thread, thanks for starting it; it's a good reminder that I need to start thinking about my vehicle transition plan now.

ImNotABot
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by ImNotABot » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:23 am

2001 Accord here. 247k miles. Im really itching to get a new-ER accord. 2014 or 2013 at the earliest.

But im kinda resolved to drive this one to 300k miles.

btenny
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by btenny » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:05 pm

Well middle class cars like the Jeep GC, Chevy and Ford used to have big deep padded front seats with big deep springs for both the driver and passenger. Then we go on this safety kick (which I like) and the start reducing seat size to save weight. Well time goes by and my 1997 Jeep GC has 141K miles.

So I sold the GC and bought a Subaru Outback in 2013 when gas was $4ish. It has Toyota like hard front seats but lots of other nice features. But the front seats are small like bar stools and have almost no padding and little if any spring travel. And the "power seat option" is limited. The driver gets a 8 way power seat but it is still hard and has no padding. And the passenger only gets a 4 way power seat that is too low to the floor and only moves back and forth and is very hard. So the passenger seat is just bad. So we want a different car since the lease is up on the Subaru.

Well from what we can find all the newer cars have gone the Toyota way and killed comfort as a criteria for car seats to save weight. They added all that steel for better safety and cut out comfort. Car front seats are all hard and small and if not over $50K in cost and full luxury have very poor passenger seats. So if you want to ride with your wife in comfort in the passenger seat you have to buy a expensive car. Cars like the MB or Lexus or other expensive cars are the only ones that offer good comfortable front seats for both driver and passenger. I can afford the $50K car but hate the fact I have to spend that much and lose on MPG and reliability.

Please tell me if you know of a good $35K new car that has good driver and passenger seats.

Just saying and still shopping.

btenny
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by btenny » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:15 pm

I guess I am not worried about "hard to use safety features". I misspoke. But other may not be as flexible. My friends have a 2013 Subaru Legacy and they leave the safety stuff mostly turned off as it "bugs them and is hard to get used too". And I am worried about those safety features working right in various conditions. See below about Eyesight false alarms.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138 ... oblem.html

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ladders11
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by ladders11 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:55 pm

btenny wrote:Well middle class cars like the Jeep GC, Chevy and Ford used to have big deep padded front seats with big deep springs for both the driver and passenger. Then we go on this safety kick (which I like) and the start reducing seat size to save weight.
What would it have to do with safety? I believe it is saving space for passenger leg room, and weight reduction for fuel economy. Trends have been for firmer seating compared to the 90's Cadillac-type rides that had all that cushion.

"We find that every 10% reduction in vehicle weight can cut fuel consumption by about 7%." [http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/resea ... s_2010.pdf]

Making a seat both smaller, and lighter would not only save the seat's space, but afford carmakers the ability to shorten the whole car a few inches and save that frame weight, while accomodating the same passengers with the same leg room.

I really like my Ford seats, having the leather/heated/power version. Paid good attention to this and took umbrage with Mazda seats for example. Had no affection for the Ford standard cloth seats however so the upgrade to leather was necessary.

My tip is go to CarMax and sit in every car they have (doors are unlocked). The very best car furniture in my experience was in the Volvo S60 and the Buick Regal.

crit
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by crit » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:09 pm

Ooh, nice reminder about going to CarMax, that's at least a good way to eyeball and sit in a bunch of different models.

I have a fussy spine complete with hardware, and it likes VW seats, or at least the "premium" leather and adjustable-all-ways seats in my A3. I'm also pretty sensitive to the bumpiness of the ride.

So, thanks to dieselgate, I'm back on the car market, and yeah, I'm hating choosing a car. Hating. I like the A3 a lot and was hoping to keep it for a long time. I'd be interested in what other TDI buyers are looking at, since we at least have that in common.

Right now my thoughts are: I could buy a Golf because it's basically the same comfort/seats/ride as the A3 (but, back to 20s for mileage?!?!?). One thought is to lease something for 2 years, then get the Tesla Model 3, but that is assuming their comfort level is what I need. We are going to try sharing a single car, so a short-range plug-in isn't really an option (but maybe if we go back to two cars, the second could be a Bolt or Leaf). The Accord hybrid - maybe? I rule out Subarus based on too many friends with head gasket problems, I just cannot trust Subaru. I've ridden in enough Priuses (Priii?) to know that they're pretty bumpy and harsh and loud.

Thoughts are welcomed.

Atilla
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Atilla » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Hate choosing a car? Not me! I know exactly what I want.

Last time I knew I wanted a Hummer and nothing else. That was 9 years ago. Next year I'll be looking to move into an Infiniti used G37X. Can't wait. :sharebeer

I will miss the flying brick- it's been a really great vehicle. I love doing oil changes laying comfortably on a creeper with a foot of clearance above my head.
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Jd1006
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Jd1006 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:52 am

We recently went through a year long process of researching and buying our first new car. It is debatable if it is best to do it this way, but we like to hold our cars for a long time. We were looking for a 3 row suv that was going to be up on all the new technology. Drove a ton of vehicles, looked at consumer reports, cnet, Internet review sites, and the car company message boards. We ended up purchasing a 2016 Volvo XC90. Gas mileage for a 3 row suv was a concern to us, but this vehicle gets 23-28 depending upon where you are driving. It is great in the snow and one of the safest suv on the market. The infotainment system rivals Teslas. We paid near $60k, but we have a vehicle I have no problem putting 100k or more miles on as it exactly fits what we want and is future proofed in many ways with the features. Also, the dealership experience played a big role in buying a foreign vehicle...they pick it up and leave a loaner whenever maintenance is needed, and we extended the warranty to 7 years, 100k miles. Do cheaper vehicles exist? Sure. But you pay a lot of hidden cost in turning vehicles every so many years and putting a lot of your time in that process.

Maverick3320
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Maverick3320 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:43 am

I'm struggling with this right now.

I'm currently driving a 2005 Civic Hybrid with 170k on it. I've been looking for a "new" car for probably the last three months now. I found one vehicle - a 2015 Honda Accord EX-L V6 - listed on three different car buying websites (including the dealership website) that was right in my wheelhouse, but when I called the dealership, mysteriously they couldn't find the car, and the salesman offered up another Accord that was priced 3k higher. I was pissed. Probably my fault for getting excited, but still - a blatant bait and switch? So, back to looking.

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ladders11
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by ladders11 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:44 pm

crit wrote:
Right now my thoughts are: I could buy a Golf because it's basically the same comfort/seats/ride as the A3 (but, back to 20s for mileage?!?!?). One thought is to lease something for 2 years, then get the Tesla Model 3, but that is assuming their comfort level is what I need. We are going to try sharing a single car, so a short-range plug-in isn't really an option (but maybe if we go back to two cars, the second could be a Bolt or Leaf). The Accord hybrid - maybe? I rule out Subarus based on too many friends with head gasket problems, I just cannot trust Subaru. I've ridden in enough Priuses (Priii?) to know that they're pretty bumpy and harsh and loud.

Thoughts are welcomed.
You too should not forget the C-Max. It is the quieter, sportier, more refined hybrid. Get the upgraded trim.

There is so much Tesla hype - I'll stand by while they all shell out for the honor of driving a beta test version. A car company needs to have existed more than 10 years for safety and reliability to prove out, IMO.

mnsportsgeek
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by mnsportsgeek » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:30 pm

I just buy Honda. I know it'll last forever and I like their design.

Maybe I'll get bored of them eventually, or eventually move to Acura or Lexus but not for a long time.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by bloom2708 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:33 am

I am firmly in "hates choosing a car" land right now.

Our 16 year old daughter smashed up her car about a week ago. The other driver involved ran a red light. :annoyed Thankfully, nobody was hurt. The 07 Ford Edge with 100k only had liability and was not repairable.

So now I'm car shopping. We can afford to buy most any car. I'm trying to wrestle with all the variables involved. It was an accident, but I don't want to "reward" by buying too much car. This is still a 16 year old, inexperienced driver. Should I expect more fender benders? Would it be stupid not to expect more?

With the recent crash, safety is a big concern. But I'd also like to have the car get decent gas mileage. Virtually all miles are in town driving.

So, I basically want a very safe, huge, small, used, mechanically sound car that is between $5k and $10k. Oh, the kid also has to think it is "not ugly". Not too much to ask is it? :oops:
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

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midareff
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by midareff » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:40 am

SilverDollars wrote:When it comes to the car you drive, where do you all draw the line in the battle between enjoying your car, and the car that makes the most financial sense?

How do you all handle this?

Interesting question. I guess I have flip flopped some over the years having gone from a Toyota MR2 I drove daily for 11 years to two Porsche Boxsters which I raced and was also my daily driver, and then a Jeep Liberty for almost 8 years before going to a Benz C350. I plan on looking at cars again before the end of the year, when the Benz will be 4 years old. I'll be 69 then and I feel time is running for a real high performance coupe or sedan. It makes absolutely no financial sense at all but the bull has put me somewhere I never thought I'd be so why not enjoy it. Possible candidates will be an AMG C63 or 63S, Audi S4 or 5, BMW M 3 or 4.

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gunn_show
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by gunn_show » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:18 am

midareff wrote:
SilverDollars wrote:When it comes to the car you drive, where do you all draw the line in the battle between enjoying your car, and the car that makes the most financial sense?
How do you all handle this?
Interesting question. I guess I have flip flopped some over the years having gone from a Toyota MR2 I drove daily for 11 years to two Porsche Boxsters which I raced and was also my daily driver, and then a Jeep Liberty for almost 8 years before going to a Benz C350. I plan on looking at cars again before the end of the year, when the Benz will be 4 years old. I'll be 69 then and I feel time is running for a real high performance coupe or sedan. It makes absolutely no financial sense at all but the bull has put me somewhere I never thought I'd be so why not enjoy it. Possible candidates will be an AMG C63 or 63S, Audi S4 or 5, BMW M 3 or 4.
Like I told my dad when he was waffling on buying a new Lexus RX 350 Sport (versus sticking with his old MDX or buying another one): go for it. You deserve it and have likely earned it, if you are even contemplating it. He had the cash, and likely his last performance vehicle purchase ever.

Do you need a sedan? Wondering why a Cayman S is not in the discussion there as an ex-Porsche owner

Love those AMG c63's though... and the M car
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midareff
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by midareff » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:18 pm

gunn_show wrote:
midareff wrote:
SilverDollars wrote:When it comes to the car you drive, where do you all draw the line in the battle between enjoying your car, and the car that makes the most financial sense?
How do you all handle this?
Interesting question. I guess I have flip flopped some over the years having gone from a Toyota MR2 I drove daily for 11 years to two Porsche Boxsters which I raced and was also my daily driver, and then a Jeep Liberty for almost 8 years before going to a Benz C350. I plan on looking at cars again before the end of the year, when the Benz will be 4 years old. I'll be 69 then and I feel time is running for a real high performance coupe or sedan. It makes absolutely no financial sense at all but the bull has put me somewhere I never thought I'd be so why not enjoy it. Possible candidates will be an AMG C63 or 63S, Audi S4 or 5, BMW M 3 or 4.
Like I told my dad when he was waffling on buying a new Lexus RX 350 Sport (versus sticking with his old MDX or buying another one): go for it. You deserve it and have likely earned it, if you are even contemplating it. He had the cash, and likely his last performance vehicle purchase ever.

Do you need a sedan? Wondering why a Cayman S is not in the discussion there as an ex-Porsche owner

Love those AMG c63's though... and the M car
The Cayman S or Cayman GT is not in my discussion since I had a Boxster, 2 actually, one an S, and I think I have moved past the Porsche experience having had a Benz, and I'm not 40 or 50 something anymore. I feel like you say " go for it. You deserve it and have likely earned it, if you are even contemplating it. " I won't pay cash since I can stiull gfet 1.49% or 1.99% long term money and make a higher rate of return in the bond market.

As far as the other stuff, I'm viewing this as my last hurrah with a vehicle I would keep 10 years. At 79 or so I'm hoping I can still find mine in a parking lot.

LadyIJ
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by LadyIJ » Tue May 03, 2016 1:13 pm

Yes, I absolutely HATE buying a new car - see my post about buying the wrong car. What a nightmare. :oops:

LadyIJ
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by LadyIJ » Tue May 03, 2016 1:22 pm

livesoft wrote:I just buy used Lexuses. They are really inexpensive around where I live. Everybody else has a new one, so finding a used one is a piece of cake. I have found a Lexus very practical in terms of gas (20 mpg in city) and maintenance (don't maintain it). They just go and go.

Then again, I live about 3 miles from my work, so commuting is inexpensive anyways.
I know you have responded to my other post about my Acura dilemma and I remember you really like the Lexus. Do you mind telling me what year and model you drive and how you rate the seat comfort? Thanks

Rodc
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Rodc » Tue May 03, 2016 1:28 pm

If one gets hung up confusing needs with wants, and gets hung up looking for perfection, buying a car is hard.

If you remember that what you need is something with 4 wheels, an engine, a steering wheel, brakes and some modest amount of room perhaps, and the rest is wants, and further you remember that if you get what you need and a few of your wants you will be fine you will find this a whole lot easier.

And if you can get over the idea that if only you looked hard enough long enough you might for all the effort save a small fraction of the cost or find something you like just a tad better, you will find this a whole lot easier.

Heck, if you keep your car for 12-15 years or so, the natural upgrade in even base level cars will likely seem amazing. :)

You are buying a car, not choosing a spouse.

You don't have to make this hard unless that is what you like to do. And if so don't then complain. :)

There are rare exceptions like someone with a bad back, but that is not most people.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

LadyIJ
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by LadyIJ » Tue May 03, 2016 1:32 pm

btenny wrote:I am having similar car selections issues as well. Got rid of my old comfortable Jeep GC in 2013 and replaced it with new Subaru Outback. The old Jeep was great in the snow and mountains and was comfortable but got poor MPG. Well the Subaru gets good MPG and is good in the snow and mountains but is not very comfortable. So now the Subaru is 3 years old and the lease is up and we need to buy that car or lease/buy another car.

We are completely tied up trying to figure out what to do. All the new cars that are comfortable are crazy expensive to buy and maintain and don't get good MPG. Cars like the MB ML350 or the Lexus RX350 and the Acura MDX. All over $52K. Crazy that you have to spend that much to get a car with good front seats and room for four (for dinner dates) and a good amount of luggage for long trips. Oh and forget good MPG unless you spend even more to get diesel or hybrid versions. And then to further complicate things all these new cars are loaded with expensive hard to use "safety features".

What happened to comfortable cars for the middle class??
You are so right - I wish I never got rid of my 2003 Honda Accord. So comfy and now you've seen my dilemma - bought a Certified Pre owned acura TSC and seats are hard. The new Accord's seats are even worse. It's crazy, you are right.

crit
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by crit » Tue May 03, 2016 1:32 pm

LadyIJ, I don't have a Lexus but I can surely comment on seat comfort. Since hardware became a part of my spine, seat comfort rocketed to my #1 consideration in a car (I am the exception, however). In fact, I sold my Acura RSX for that reason (the seat was -ok- but the ride was way too stiff, once I could sit in a car again; and as you know, the RSX is a sports car, so not really relevant to this comparison).

In my last car buying, my final choice was between an A3 and the Lexus hybrid hatchback (whatever it is called). The Lexus was really very comfortable in all ways, and that's been true when I've sat in others' Lexii. My test driving was of a friend's Lexus hybrid hatch, and he bought it for back/seat comfort. Acura/Honda seats are ... decent but not mindblowing, and not as plush for sure. I'd also expect a Lexus to have a softer ride, which matters to me. So I can't say specifically for the cars you're looking at, but I'd rely on Lexus for seat comfort.

LadyIJ
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by LadyIJ » Tue May 03, 2016 1:43 pm

crit wrote:LadyIJ, I don't have a Lexus but I can surely comment on seat comfort. Since hardware became a part of my spine, seat comfort rocketed to my #1 consideration in a car (I am the exception, however). In fact, I sold my Acura RSX for that reason (the seat was -ok- but the ride was way too stiff, once I could sit in a car again; and as you know, the RSX is a sports car, so not really relevant to this comparison).

In my last car buying, my final choice was between an A3 and the Lexus hybrid hatchback (whatever it is called). The Lexus was really very comfortable in all ways, and that's been true when I've sat in others' Lexii. My test driving was of a friend's Lexus hybrid hatch, and he bought it for back/seat comfort. Acura/Honda seats are ... decent but not mindblowing, and not as plush for sure. I'd also expect a Lexus to have a softer ride, which matters to me. So I can't say specifically for the cars you're looking at, but I'd rely on Lexus for seat comfort.
Thanks - I'm taking it all into consideration.

livesoft
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by livesoft » Tue May 03, 2016 3:49 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
livesoft wrote:I just buy used Lexuses. They are really inexpensive around where I live. Everybody else has a new one, so finding a used one is a piece of cake. I have found a Lexus very practical in terms of gas (20 mpg in city) and maintenance (don't maintain it). They just go and go.

Then again, I live about 3 miles from my work, so commuting is inexpensive anyways.
I know you have responded to my other post about my Acura dilemma and I remember you really like the Lexus. Do you mind telling me what year and model you drive and how you rate the seat comfort? Thanks
I have owned 2001 RX300 and 2011 RX350. I think the seat comfort is fine for me. I'm not a seat-comfort afficionado and almost all cars have perfectly fine seat comfort for me.

My peeve is where I rest my elbows when driving. So if the steering wheel does not have a large-enough diameter, then my elbows cannot reach the armrests if I want to keep my hands on the steering wheel. People have told me I can just replace the steering wheel with a bigger one. :) (The Lexus I drive has a large enough steering wheel for my arms.)
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KlangFool
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by KlangFool » Tue May 03, 2016 4:05 pm

Folks,

I always buy a brand new Nissan Altima. I bought my Third Nissan Altima in 2014. I have 2 Nissan Altima at the moment: 2006 and 2014. So, I have no idea why is it so hard for people to choose a car. I know exactly what I want: the latest Nissan Altima.

KlangFool

LadyIJ
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by LadyIJ » Wed May 04, 2016 8:41 am

KlangFool wrote:Folks,

I always buy a brand new Nissan Altima. I bought my Third Nissan Altima in 2014. I have 2 Nissan Altima at the moment: 2006 and 2014. So, I have no idea why is it so hard for people to choose a car. I know exactly what I want: the latest Nissan Altima.

KlangFool
I've admired the design - beautiful car - can you tell us what you love about the Nisan Altima?

KlangFool
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by KlangFool » Wed May 04, 2016 8:46 am

LadyIJ wrote:
KlangFool wrote:Folks,

I always buy a brand new Nissan Altima. I bought my Third Nissan Altima in 2014. I have 2 Nissan Altima at the moment: 2006 and 2014. So, I have no idea why is it so hard for people to choose a car. I know exactly what I want: the latest Nissan Altima.

KlangFool
I've admired the design - beautiful car - can you tell us what you love about the Nisan Altima?
LadyIJ,

It is a good deal at the RIGHT PRICE. It has more features and power as compared to the equivalent Honda and Toyota. It is always like that. Nissan is a tier 2 auto manufacturer. It has to provide more at the same price.

http://www.nissanusa.com/cars/altima/features/

Look at what you get around 23K Brand new.

KlangFool

P.S.: There is one bad thing about Nissan Altima. Low resell value. Since I use my car for 8 to 10 years, I do not care.

LadyIJ
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by LadyIJ » Wed May 04, 2016 9:36 am

KlangFool wrote:
LadyIJ wrote:
KlangFool wrote:Folks,

I always buy a brand new Nissan Altima. I bought my Third Nissan Altima in 2014. I have 2 Nissan Altima at the moment: 2006 and 2014. So, I have no idea why is it so hard for people to choose a car. I know exactly what I want: the latest Nissan Altima.

KlangFool
I've admired the design - beautiful car - can you tell us what you love about the Nisan Altima?
LadyIJ,

It is a good deal at the RIGHT PRICE. It has more features and power as compared to the equivalent Honda and Toyota. It is always like that. Nissan is a tier 2 auto manufacturer. It has to provide more at the same price.

http://www.nissanusa.com/cars/altima/features/

Look at what you get around 23K Brand new.

KlangFool

P.S.: There is one bad thing about Nissan Altima. Low resell value. Since I use my car for 8 to 10 years, I do not care.
I've wanted one and my husband doesn't because of resale. How do you like the seat comfort - they're kind of hard aren't they?

KlangFool
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by KlangFool » Wed May 04, 2016 9:42 am

LadyIJ wrote: I've wanted one and my husband doesn't because of resale. How do you like the seat comfort - they're kind of hard aren't they?
LadyIJ,

It is a "Zero Gravity" seat. So, I do not feel or notice the seat. So, what do you mean by HARD? Rent a Nissan Altima for a week and try it out.

KlangFool

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Wed May 04, 2016 12:05 pm

To me car shopping is fun.

My criteria is.

Reliability
Fun Factor (HP, RWD, 6MT transmission)
Expected Depreciation Curve
Efficiency
Ease of Maintenance

JWoody
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by JWoody » Fri May 06, 2016 5:37 pm

I was just in an accident (don't know why they call it that when it is someone's fault) and my car was totaled. Somehow the insurance company did not rip me off, and I ended up getting a net gain of almost $25.00 and the headache of having to get a new car. I really forgot how much I hate it. Saw this thread and just wanted to give my two sense. Because I had my last car for about 10 years, and it was the only car I had ever purchased, I feel like I am back to square one. Now every time I start doing some research on a car I get taken down a new rabbit hole of craziness. I would love to get an electric car, but I do not have the money for a Tesla S or X and I do not have the time for the III to come out let alone get sold used. Recently I was looking into the security upgrades you can do to cars, and it got me paranoid about theft. Because I buy old used cars, and fix them up I was particular troubled by these things called Jiggle keys. Ended up on the weird part of the internet and read this post: http://united-locksmith.net/blog/why-bu ... rk-on-cars. Now I am desperately trying to find a car with good door locks, and then I find out that people can just wedge the door open and get in the car in about 20 seconds. I really don't want to get a newer car, but now I am freaking about about a subject that I didn't even think was an issue. I was worried about fuel range and crash safety. I wanted something that I could service myself, and now I am looking at youtube videos on how to change the locks on a car.

Buying a new car is terrible. You just have to bite the bullet and get something that is not horrible, but you never have the time or money to get exactly what you want. There is all of this compromise that comes with a big chunk of change leaving your bank account at the end of the day. I wish that my area had better public transportation, or that I lived closer to work, but there is no getting around buying and owning a car (at least that I can see). Then when you finally decide on what to get, and where to get it, you always have to deal with a salesman or some guy who does not want to give you a deal and is not willing to negotiate. I would love to know some of the things that people like about it. I mean, someone has to enjoy it. I wonder if they just hear all of the stuff that I hate, and go, "Well that is what I love about it". I don't know, but it feels good to vent the rage!

Thank you for this thread!

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StormShadow
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by StormShadow » Fri May 06, 2016 7:13 pm

Car shopping is fun for me. I test drove everything, which was a blast. I picked out a few models I liked the best, made a pro/con list for each, then picked the car that had the most pro's versus con's. Absolutely no regrets with my car choice.

House shopping... not so much fun.

bstevlin
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by bstevlin » Fri May 06, 2016 8:11 pm

Do you folks mind if I digress a little from the discussion? I want to replace my 2006 MDX with a 2013 RX 350. What should I pay for a CPO RX350 AWD with <35000 mi with a good car fax maintenance history. I will sell my MDX privately. Another MDX is out of the question because the RX has more leg room which I like.

danaht
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by danaht » Fri May 06, 2016 8:33 pm

I really like my current car - it has 126,000 miles and still going strong. I am not looking forward to the day it dies - because Toyota seems to be phasing out manual stick shift. If I had to get the same car right now - I would be stuck with a boring automatic version. I guess I'll just have to try a Honda instead when that happens.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Mudpuppy » Fri May 06, 2016 11:23 pm

danaht wrote:I really like my current car - it has 126,000 miles and still going strong. I am not looking forward to the day it dies - because Toyota seems to be phasing out manual stick shift. If I had to get the same car right now - I would be stuck with a boring automatic version. I guess I'll just have to try a Honda instead when that happens.
I'm another person who prefers MT, so I've been keeping tabs on MT support as new models come out. Honda Civic has dropped MT on all but the LX sedan (lowest trim line) in the latest generation that went into production this year. It's also hard to find MT on the Accord EX, although it's easier to find a MT Accord LX or Sports trim. We'll have to see what MT support exists when Honda unveils the next generation of Accord, but the change with the Civic (dropping MT on the EX trim) and the difficulty I had trying to find a MT EX Accord does not make me hopeful.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by czr » Sat May 07, 2016 4:50 am

Mudpuppy wrote: I'm another person who prefers MT, so I've been keeping tabs on MT support as new models come out.... We'll have to see what MT support exists when Honda unveils the next generation of Accord, but the change with the Civic (dropping MT on the EX trim) and the difficulty I had trying to find a MT EX Accord does not make me hopeful.
Funny, I needed to replace my old car and bought a luxury car in automatic form. I hated not rowing my own gears and lasted a month before biting the bullet and picked up a '16 Accord EX 6MT end of last year and am thoroughly enjoying this car. I feel more connected and actually look forward to driving again. Seems like they produce certain configurations of cars in batches and the EX manual was first to be produced but I'm sure it will come out again although manuals are difficult to come by and at the time, this one was the only MT non LX sedan in a 200 mile radius which included 9 Honda dealers. I also think the Civic will come out in manual trim other than base model but you just have to wait patiently. Cars.com does a great job of locating the specific setup you'd like over a broad radius and you can even create an e-mail alert so you don't have to obsess daily.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sat May 07, 2016 11:37 am

czr wrote:
Mudpuppy wrote: I'm another person who prefers MT, so I've been keeping tabs on MT support as new models come out.... We'll have to see what MT support exists when Honda unveils the next generation of Accord, but the change with the Civic (dropping MT on the EX trim) and the difficulty I had trying to find a MT EX Accord does not make me hopeful.
Funny, I needed to replace my old car and bought a luxury car in automatic form. I hated not rowing my own gears and lasted a month before biting the bullet and picked up a '16 Accord EX 6MT end of last year and am thoroughly enjoying this car. I feel more connected and actually look forward to driving again. Seems like they produce certain configurations of cars in batches and the EX manual was first to be produced but I'm sure it will come out again although manuals are difficult to come by and at the time, this one was the only MT non LX sedan in a 200 mile radius which included 9 Honda dealers. I also think the Civic will come out in manual trim other than base model but you just have to wait patiently. Cars.com does a great job of locating the specific setup you'd like over a broad radius and you can even create an e-mail alert so you don't have to obsess daily.
The lack of Civic MT in anything other than LX trim comes straight from Honda corporate website, not from trying to find one at a dealership. The 10th generation Civic only has MT in the LX trim according to all relevant pages on honda.com (specs, models, build a car, etc).

Meanwhile, the Honda website shows that the Accord EX has a MT option, but only one dealership many states away had one when I tried to find one. So I decided to go with an Accord LX in MT instead. Even for the Accord LX, the nearest model was 90 miles away. The LX is not quite as sporty as my old Civic EX, but I doubt the Accord EX would have been much sportier and I didn't like the colors available on the Accord Sport. At least the 2016 line has more colors for Accord Sport in MT, but in 2015 the only colors for MT Accord Sport were black or dark grey (again, from corporate website, not dealership searches).

The 10th generation Accord will be rolled out for the 2018 production line, so we'll see what happens next summer or fall when the specs start showing up on Honda's website.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by topper1296 » Sat May 07, 2016 11:56 am

I'm 6'5 and buying a vehicle with enough headroom and legroom is miserable (buying pants and long sleeve shirts can also be a pain). I sat in about 15 vehicles and test drove about 6. I ended up buying a Subaru Forester. It's not sexy or flashy, but has the best headroom I've seen in a vehicle while still getting good MPG. Couple other pluses was it didn't need expensive premium gas like my old Acura, great resell value and had high safety ratings. The symmetrical all wheel drive is also fantastic.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by willie838 » Sun May 08, 2016 12:35 am

with the new civic, the previous poster is referencing the SI and the type R which i believe both will have 6 mts in them.

next car? not sure, currently still spinning an 03 civic i've had since 0 miles and it's about to turn 267k.

i don't think i'll be very frugal with my next car. The way i feel when i walk out into a parking lot and see my bike (06 cbr 1kRR) is just something i love. It's just beautiful. Sharp, clean.

I do my best to save and pinch and scrimp but i really do love handling nice vehicles.

SilverDollars
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by SilverDollars » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:14 am

Just an update here and some new “color” on the situation

It’s now 2018, and I am STILL driving the same 2004 Honda Pilot I was years ago (and 14 year amp ago). This is for a few reasons:

1. Engine still runs great!
2. I have a Tesla Model 3 reservation for 1.5 years and they are - as expected - delayed. Since I wanted AWD and am east coast I am looking at the LONGEST delay, now maybe q4 2018 at best.
3. Trying to be financially prudent
4. Paralysis by over-analysis: this car thing tears me up inside.
Not sure if anyone has ever been more conflicted. I think about a nice new car almost every day. And also know that cars are just depreciating asset rentals. And that the difference in cost between a 26k accord and a 55k bmw/Audi including gas, maintenance and insurance over 5-8 years is very significant. Yet man would it be nice to actually love my car for once in my life, and I can afford it)
5. I despise car dealerships and salespeople. The entire industry if you ask me is a giant conflict of interest. Scammers, liars, cheats.

The Pilot is now entering higher maintenance cost zone. It has 190k miles (I drive about 10k per year, maybe less. Although this fluctuates with my job. My last job commute had me doing 25k per year and this could change any day in my industry). Both drive axles are “shot”, which looks like a $1200 repair. I need new tires, new brakes. The shocks are original and have been toast for 7+ years. Which supposedly just causes tires to wear faster. Plus it has no back up cam, no safety features, and who knows it the air bags would even work at this age. No Bluetooth, the steering wheel controls don’t work for radio. And the heat and AC work but only in two modes: air conditioning or max heat. The heat is an issue because it gets too hot many days. Have to crack windows.

I have been eyeing some of the leases out there lately, such as the $169 per month deals. RAV4 just had one. Santa Fe sport is now another. Plenty of sedans.

My guess on the model 3 is that it would be about $45k, give or take. The awd is going to be an extra 5k or so over the 35k base price. And I assume I’m going to want 1-2 of the packages (tech package and higher trim with larger wheels). Due to being in th NE and the awd desire. I may also lose out on the $7500 ev credit that helped draw me to the car to begin with.

Along those lines, tesla is losing their edge with their delays. For example, Volvo announced their EV SUV for 2019 in the new xc40 concept. They also have a VolvoCare plan where you just pay $600 a month and nothing down and it includes insurance and all repairs and maintenance. Not sure that is worth it. However, buying one early if the $7500 tax credit is in play for them might just be a superior deal for me than the tesla.

But my heart is with the tesla. Years ago I said I wanted an awd, with tech, safety, interior space, and excellent mileage. And this was the first car that really offered all of that. Subaru too small,
Other cards don’t have the mpg or awd.

Wondering if I should lease something for 2 years now, which could become a car my going on 17 daughter could then use (we plan to get her license this summer).

Another option is the current xc40 and later upgrading to the EV when it’s available. Not sure that’s worth the cost in buying and selling/buying again.

Or, do I just buy a reliable beater with 80k miles and put that 20-50k in savings over 5 years toward college for kids.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by squirm » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:13 am

Some people I know go to the extreme with their car. It's like they think they're bringing a new born home... Come on, It's a box on four wheels.
If we want a new car I test drive three, then sleep on it. If I feel like buying it the next day, then finish doing the deal. Bring it home and move on with life. I'm not materialistic....It will take us to work and back and blah blah blah, not a big deal.

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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Angelus359 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:35 am

I bought a prius because the seat felt good on my back
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bloom2708
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:11 am

I am tired of driving a vehicle for the 10% case.

Driving a 7 passenger 4WD that gets 15 mpg with 1 or 2 occupants 90% of the time for the 1-3 times per year when you pile 6 or 7 people in the car.

All I want is a 7-8 passenger, small vehicle that gets 40+ mpg and has a large truck box for hauling stuff. It also must be able to tow stuff and have an all electric/plug-in range for in town driving. :wink:

Both wife and I are driving 2WD cars that seat 5 maximum. If it snows too much we'll stay home. If we need 7 seats, we'll drive 2 cars. If we need a mini-van for a long road trip, we will rent one. I'm driving for the 80-90%. :idea:
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Who else hates choosing a car?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:18 am

Maybe therapy? :happy

Life is too short for such agonizing. Make a decision. Accept that it is ok if it isn't the perfect decision. Act upon it. Don't second-guess yourself. Most importantly, move on to more important things.

Good luck!

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