How many Bogleheads golf?

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abuss368
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How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by abuss368 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:55 pm

Curious how many Bogleheads golf. How often and how much in a year do you typically spend?
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:38 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (golf).
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by asif408 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:12 pm

I do. I try to get out there at least once a week (wish I could get out more often). My annual membership at the local muni is $720/year. Covers my green fees and gives me access to two different courses. I usually walk and carry my bag so I don't have to pay cart fees (plus it is good exercise).

I usually play elsewhere a couple of times a year on holidays or special occasions where I pay $40-$50 each time. I would estimate I spend around $900/year on golf when you include these rounds. I buy golf balls used online and haven't bought new clubs or shoes in years, so that keeps my expenses down as well.

Would love to play more. Need to start going after work more often. :idea: I've been spending too much time on the boards here lately.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by leo383 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:37 am

I would think a lower percentage of Bogleheads golf than the general population.

Seems like a sport where it would be difficult to maintain a Boglehead attitude. I could be wrong.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by TheRightKost87 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:43 am

I wish I could golf more but its an expensive habit not too in line with the Boglehead philosophy (at least in my area). If I could convince my buddies to walk more often it would cut down on costs for sure
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by TxAg » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:49 am

About twice a year when work pays for it. I don't really enjoy the golf, but the free drinks are nice :) and I like spending time with customers.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by acegolfer » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:50 am

As my handle suggest, I play golf. But not as often as I used to.

I love walking but all the courses around here require riding a cart. Golf is less fun for me.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by chaz » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:02 am

I tried it once, but prefer tennis.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Meaty » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:49 am

To slow paced for me.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:49 am

I recently purchased a set of Callaway clubs and love it. We are heading out again over the 4th. We typically wait until to early afternoon when the tee fees decrease.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by miles monroe » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:07 pm

i'm only 62. i may try it when i'm old enough.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by peppers » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:13 pm

I play miniature golf with the grandchildren.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by mlebuf » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:14 pm

I played golf twice a week for a year when I was in my early 30's. I decided that if I was going to spend that much time on an activity and get that frustrated, I wanted to be paid for it and became a writer. It turned out to be a good choice because nobody would pay to watch me play golf.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:24 pm

Excellent thread. I don't take it too serious and enjoy being out on a course. I am also looking down the road as golf is a game one can play through retirement! I would love to someday golf in Florida.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by tim1999 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:43 pm

I am a golfaholic, 90+ rounds per year, though it used to be more like 110-120/yr. when I had a less demanding job.

I spend about $3500-$4000 per year, down from about $6,000-$7,000 when I was at a more expensive club than I'm at now. Always walk. I generally won't play a course if I have to ride a cart. It's not about the money though, I just hate carts.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by pennstater2005 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:45 pm

I'm a Spring and Fall golfer. I can't stand golfing in the heat of summer. Even if I'm riding a cart. Although, now with 2 kids I golf with short plastic clubs around my backyard. Even then I'm still terrible.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Steelersfan » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:47 pm

I've played a few dozen rounds in my life. Takes too long. Too slow.

I'd probably prefer it to cricket though.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by trasmuss » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:50 pm

I gave up golf in the 1970's. My bad slice meant either lessons, frustration, or giving it up. I didn't want to pay for lessons and didn't want to pay to play when I wasn't enjoying it. Since then I have walked for exercise without golf and have no regrets.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Hayden » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:50 pm

I have a few part-time employees who are obsessive golfers. They work a few hours, then go play golf every day (or close to it). Yes, they spend a lot on golf. But, it keeps them healthy, happy, and still have income (all are past retirement age). Also, it keeps their wives happy. All in all, not so un-bogleheadsish.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Calm Man » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:57 pm

I wish I had liked it. I did give it a chance in my teens. But it just was, well, boring. And then you are out in the sun for 4-5 hours at a time and I avoid that (even with sunscreen).

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by pennstater2005 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:58 pm

Beer helps.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:19 pm

Hayden wrote:Also, it keeps their wives happy.
Priceless!
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by JonnyDVM » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:37 pm

Play at least weekly. Expensive hobby, but a good one.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Kosmo » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:40 pm

I'm surprised at how few people golf. I play only a handful of rounds a year ($50-$75 per round). I'd like to play more but I don't have the time. That means I'm not very good and not getting any better.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Peter Foley » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:22 pm

I used to golf more. I have to play and practice regularly to play well - handicap under 10. If I don't play well it is frustrating. I've been down to once a week, league play only, for the past 4-5 years. I may retire at the end of this year. If I do I will probably end up with a dozen more pleasant, angst free evenings. (I now have about 20 angst free Sunday afternoons - having given up watching football some 20 years ago.)

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Van » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:30 pm

Golf is my main hobby, and I belong to a rather "low brow" country club.
I play about 4 times per week during the season in PA (about April through November).
It costs approximately $10,000 per year including dues, food minimum, cart fees, etc.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Retread » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:15 pm

I guess I'm the odd duck here. I live on a golf course in a Florida country club community. I lease a cart from the club, can be on the first tee in two minutes, and play four times a week year round or about 200 rounds a year. Obviously it's my main hobby, although it wasn't always. I almost hate to tell you what it costs but I will - about $20,000 a year for club dues, cart fees, equipment and lunches. We once spent much more than that on travel, primarily cruises, so the golf seems cheap by comparison.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:33 pm

Retread wrote:I guess I'm the odd duck here. I live on a golf course in a Florida country club community. I lease a cart from the club, can be on the first tee in two minutes, and play four times a week year round or about 200 rounds a year. Obviously it's my main hobby, although it wasn't always. I almost hate to tell you what it costs but I will - about $20,000 a year for club dues, cart fees, equipment and lunches. We once spent much more than that on travel, primarily cruises, so the golf seems cheap by comparison.
Bruce
Florida golf sounds incredible. We have often visited the Sarasota Siesta Key area and always love the experience. Are you in the Tampa area or further south of Sarasota near Naples?
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Retread » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:53 pm

abuss368 wrote:Florida golf sounds incredible. We have often visited the Sarasota Siesta Key area and always love the experience. Are you in the Tampa area or further south of Sarasota near Naples?
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by bcboy57 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:01 pm

I quit about 30 years ago after the kids were born. I played a lot in high school and summers during college years and early work years. I did OK on the 1st 18 holes, but no end to troubles on the 19th though....

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by 02sbxstr » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:05 pm

I have played golf since I was 12 or 13, I'm 65 now. It truly is a game you can play for life and with the handicap system, you can play competitively. It can be expensive; my wife is an avid player also and we belong to a country club. The Golf line item is the second highest in our budget, but the playing experience and camaraderie is worth every penny. The best friendships we have developed have been associated with golf and the clubs we have belonged to. I just returned yesterday from a 4-day annual golf trip with 20 or so guys. Some of them have been doing this for 30+ years, me 15, but it has always been one of the highlights of the year. I don't understand why there seems to be a notion that being a Boglehead and playing golf are incompatible. Being a Boglehead to me does not mean being a hermit or a cheapskate. Being a Boglehead to me means being responsible in planning and executing for the future financially but certainly does not preclude enjoying the fruits of labor now. After all, you never saw an armored car in a funeral procession.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:19 pm

02sbxstr wrote:I have played golf since I was 12 or 13, I'm 65 now. It truly is a game you can play for life and with the handicap system, you can play competitively. It can be expensive; my wife is an avid player also and we belong to a country club. The Golf line item is the second highest in our budget, but the playing experience and camaraderie is worth every penny. The best friendships we have developed have been associated with golf and the clubs we have belonged to. I just returned yesterday from a 4-day annual golf trip with 20 or so guys. Some of them have been doing this for 30+ years, me 15, but it has always been one of the highlights of the year. I don't understand why there seems to be a notion that being a Boglehead and playing golf are incompatible. Being a Boglehead to me does not mean being a hermit or a cheapskate. Being a Boglehead to me means being responsible in planning and executing for the future financially but certainly does not preclude enjoying the fruits of labor now. After all, you never saw an armored car in a funeral procession.
Very well said.

Thank you.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by J295 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:27 pm

I'm 54 and have played golf for about 45 years. I enjoy the game and the people. Now that I'm part time I am able to play a couple of times a week and practice a couple of days a week. The past 20 years I played principally at a golf club, where we recently purchased a town home. Outside of the golf club, I've played twice a month for 23 years with three college friends -- wonderful friends! Whether it is boglehead like or not depends on one's definition. I'm aware it's not the least expensive activity, but it is one that brings me substantial pleasure -- we're using $$ as a servant rather than a master.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Woodshark » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:51 pm

I've tried it a couple of dozen times over the last 15 years or so. Even own a set of clubs. Still, never caught the golf fever. I just don't understand why people love this game so much. As Mark Twain said " Golf is a good walk spoiled"

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Crimsontide » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:57 pm

Used to play all the time but it just became to expensive and too time consuming. It's supposed to be a four hour game (for 18 holes) but it usually takes all day on the crowded courses around the metromess...

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by irwinmfletcher » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:12 am

love the game (even though I stink) and try to play or practice 1-2 times per week. My job doesn't allow me to play much more than that, but would if I could. I really should have chosen a career where golfing with customers was part of the job (e.g., banker--one of my good friends plays so much for work he doesn't even want to play on weekends). Most of my good friendships these days are maintained through golf. Cost, 3-4 k per year right now, which generally includes one sweet golf trip. I could see this getting up to $10-20k in about 5-10 years if time and funds allow it.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by lolbatross » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:00 am

I love the game. I grew up with access to a golf club and worked at one when I was 16. Still I only play 10-20 times a year. I am guilty of spending about $1400 on new clubs 2 years ago. First set in 15 years and the technology was much better. I think its best to upgrade when you see a huge difference rather than chasing the small gains every year.

I would love to join a country club. However 50k now and 20k/year does not fit my budget or align with my goals. Come to think of it I have no idea what net worth/income/age combination would make me OK with that. 2M/300k/40? More?

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by freddie » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:40 pm

Can someone point me to the link (or text from Bogle) that suggests not doing things you like because they cost money is part of the Boglehead philosophy? I expect more Bogleheads than average play golf. Why? Because of an oversampling of rich white men. There is a big difference between living below your means and living as cheapily as possible. I consider my self a boglehead (pretty much all index funds, low costs, tax efficient, diversified, don't try to time the market, and have been investing since I was 18). But I also don't live cheapily. I choose to have a house that cost 3x as much as what I could get away with, bought a 35k car instead of 5k, eat at nice restaurants instead of the olive garden, and so on.

I play golf about 5 months of the year. The other 12 months I have quite the game in frustration:)
TheRightKost87 wrote:I wish I could golf more but its an expensive habit not too in line with the Boglehead philosophy (at least in my area). If I could convince my buddies to walk more often it would cut down on costs for sure

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Diogenes » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:43 pm

Played in College and for business reasons later.
Not interested in passing time in that fashion now, have too many other better things to do.

_D_

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Retread » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:51 pm

freddie wrote:Can someone point me to the link (or text from Bogle) that suggests not doing things you like because they cost money is part of the Boglehead philosophy? I expect more Bogleheads than average play golf. Why? Because of an oversampling of rich white men. There is a big difference between living below your means and living as cheapily as possible. I consider my self a boglehead (pretty much all index funds, low costs, tax efficient, diversified, don't try to time the market, and have been investing since I was 18). But I also don't live cheapily. I choose to have a house that cost 3x as much as what I could get away with, bought a 35k car instead of 5k, eat at nice restaurants instead of the olive garden, and so on.

I play golf about 5 months of the year. The other 12 months I have quite the game in frustration:)
TheRightKost87 wrote:I wish I could golf more but its an expensive habit not too in line with the Boglehead philosophy (at least in my area). If I could convince my buddies to walk more often it would cut down on costs for sure
I'm with you on this, Freddie. I saved, invested, watched the pennies on everything all my working years so that I could do what I'm doing today, i.e, live in an expensive home, drive nice cars, take luxury vacations and drop $20,000 a year on golf and a country club. I don't even cry too much when I put a sleeve of balls into a lake and lose five bucks to my golfing buddies. :happy Life is good.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Copper John » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:01 pm

I worked for a golfaholic and he gave me his old clubs and I gave it a shot when I was in my 40s. I was a pretty good baseball player when I was younger and thought I could just take those skills and apply them to golf. I was VERY wrong. I developed an entirely new respect on the difficulty of the game. I realized it would take much more of my time that I had thought it would and to become half way proficient would probably require some lessons.

I never pursued it further as the times in the year when I would be golfing,would take away time from my true passion - fly fishing.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by S&L1940 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:08 pm

chaz wrote:I tried it once, but prefer tennis.
No time for golf, tennis 3-4 times a week and now adding Pickleball...
I find I can play tennis, shower, nap and be ready for the rest of my day while friends and neighbors are still finishing the back nine
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by schannel » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:21 pm

My spouse and I are obsessive golfers. We have played for 10 years and just retired two weeks ago with the goal of playing more. We will play here in Lake Tahoe in the summer, then rent a condo in Palm Springs for the winter and play there. Total annual cost for both of us will be around $10,000. I have no idea why I like the game. I am terrible at it. I'll hit 5 bad shots in a row. Then I'll hit a good shot, and the adrenaline goes through me, and I am re-addicted to the game. Golf has taught me much about myself, the good but a lot of the bad, and I believe this insight has made me a better, happier, kinder person.

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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by TheTimeLord » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:51 pm

Not that it will happen but my fantasy is to retire to The Cliffs communities in the Carolinias. I think they have 7 courses and maybe another 2 under construction.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by bloom2708 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:34 pm

I golf 3-4 times a summer. I enjoy it, but it is very time consuming and expensive. I want to think that after our kids leave the nest I'll have "time" to play more. But I am having doubts. It just isn't a good use of money. Maybe after the accumulation stage it will be better.

My current plan to enjoy golf more is to have as little money as possible into my golf equipment. My bag I got free. It is a late 1960s JC Penney faux leather bag. Brown and white vinyl. It is attached to a same era fold up golf pull cart. This beauty was put on the curb for junk week. Cost $0. I purchased a set of 4 Ping Eye 2 old school woods from a garage sale for $10 (1,3,5, 7). They are from the late 70s and were pretty expensive when new. I can hit them very straight and long (maybe not 480cc graphite stiff shaft long, but long enough). My irons are American made "Kahler Classics" Made by a spin-off corporation owned by Gary Kahler who made guitar pickups in California. Forged in California they were ~$700 new for a set. I paid $20 for them at a thrift store about 10 years ago. My putter is a Ping O-blade I purchased for $3.99 at the local thrift store. To top it off I have a beautiful set of vinyl head covers for the Ping Eye 2 woods. I paid $1 for them at a garage sale.

So about $40 total that I pull around. I've played in a few scrambles and events where my clubs garner a few snickers. That is exactly the point. After a few good drives and good iron shots my old clubs are forgotten. If you have a good swing, most clubs will hit straight as an arrow.

My grandpa taught me to play the games with "ands" not "buts" or "ors". For example. I shot a 77 "and" it was from the black tees "and" I counted every shot and had no "foot wedge" shots. The flip slide is "I shot a 77 "but" it was from the white tees. I play with a neighbor and he wants to play the white tees and I say. Nah..let's go for an "and" round. I also prefer to walk. I've never liked using carts for non-tournament type golf.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by Van-Guard23 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:39 pm

I try to play and hit the driving range once or twice a week. Mainly play the courses on military bases with the occasional municipal course here on Oahu...costs from $34 to $50 with cart. I have been playing off and on for a few years but just started playing more often the past few months after retiring from the Army. I still suck at it (haven't done better than 90 on a par 72 with no mulligans) but enjoy the camaraderie and the competition. I took a couple of lessons but wasn't too impressed with the quality of the lesson I received - or maybe I just don't have golf skills. I still play with my "Walmart specials" I bought as a young Captain...maybe my Boglehead ways are preventing me from buying new fitted clubs as I figure my game (or lack thereof) doesn't warrant new, expensive clubs anyway. Incidentally, would fitted clubs even make a difference in my game if I can't be consistent with my swing?

I play better nowadays than a few years ago but there's still plenty of room for improvement. Maybe that's part of the reason I still play golf...a string of bad swings followed by a beautiful swing that produces desired results...and I keep coming back for more hoping there would be a string of beautiful swings followed by one or two bad swings. And the vicious cycle continues.
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Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by twindad57 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:43 pm

In theory, I golf. Used to play 2-3 times a week. I took a job in DC. Went down to 18 times a year. I got married. We had twins. I golf about 1-2 times a year now. Someday, I'll pick it back up.

TN_Boy
Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: How many Bogleheads golf?

Post by TN_Boy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:27 am

I golf frequently, though not well. It is certainly a vexing game.

I don't think golf is necessarily expensive, though it surely is not the cheapest of hobbies. If you play late and walk you cut the cost by 50% or more. We (my wife plays also) live near a number of very walkable golf courses. Playing late also reduces the time required (along with using the correct tees and knowing how to play briskly). There are several "ok" courses around where we can play late and walk for $15 to $25. We can also pay about twice that and play some excellent courses. We go for the "ok" courses more often than not because our mood after the round has more to do with how well we hit the ball than how pretty the course was!

It's really pretty decent exercise carrying or using a pushcart. My GPS watch claims 5.5 to 7+ miles (the latter for the 7000 yard plus courses with a few longer tee to green journeys) of walking. This is consistent with studies of golfers showing that the calories burned playing and walking a course is quite a bit more than you'd expect just looking at the yardage from the tees.

Like a couple of other posters, we dislike riding carts. It takes much of the exercise out of the picture, costs more, and if the course is wet "cart path only golf" is very painful.

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