BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

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montanagirl
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BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by montanagirl »

My husband and I have really been enjoying movies together lately, and now I'm thinking of going back to Netflix streaming services using a Bluray DVD which I don't have yet.

I can get a basic Sony player for $69 or for 89 get one with wifi, which would spare us the hassle of bringing the DSL connection over to that part of the house. But is wifi fast enough? Years ago I was led to believe that its bandwidth is more restricted than landline. It doesn't seen to happen as much at the desktop PC though it's still erratic.

As it is now, when I try to watch YouTube videos on my laptop, they nearly always pause to buffer at around 1:40. I searched but still can't figure out if this is a problem with Windows or a problem with DSL.

Switching to cable modem would required bundling the phone and agreeing to much more cable TV than we want.

Thoughts?
jridger2011
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by jridger2011 »

I think Netflix is offering Standard Definition streaming with lower quality video output which might work just fine with DSL. If you are looking to really enjoy HD streaming, it's best to get the cable modem setup.
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ogd
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by ogd »

Wifi these days is good enough at reasoanble distances (say, below 30 feet). Look for a 802.11n or even 802.11ac specification.

Your DSL may or may not be good enough for the highest definition. Check out speedtest.net; anything above 10 Mbps won't be a problem, 5-10 Mbps is a little more iffy but probably watchable. Netflix is much better at handling streaming than YouTube.

The highest definition is better than DVD, by the way.
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6miths
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by 6miths »

I switched from cable to DSL as I couldn't get an unlimited download package from cable and my 4 teenagers were killing me. We have a wireless N router and the Sony Bluray player is about 40 feet from the router on the same floor (although on the other side of a double brick wall). Streaming Netflix we get DVD but not HD quality. It's on a 42 inch screen and to me it looks fine. Our basement projector runs Netflix off an Xbox with a ethernet connection to the router and does do HD.
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erikdeb
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by erikdeb »

We dealt with this a bit at Christmas at my parents house. They have 1.5 DSL. They got a sony bluray player to stream. It works fantastic for amazon and YouTube. But you cannot stream netflix on a sony bluray player unless your DSL speed is at least 2.5. I spent about four hours chatting and on the phone with both sony and netflix to determine that is the simple reason it wouldn't work.

I haven't looked into other brands, but I know it is a sony requirement, though Sony tells you it's a bluray requirement. So, if your speed is below 2.5, I would look at other brands do bluray if you want netflix.
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6miths
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by 6miths »

That's interesting. When I do the speed test I get just a smig over 2.5 Mbps. I wasn't aware that Sony players had the limit but I guess we just sneak in over it. Whew!
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montanagirl
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by montanagirl »

erikdeb wrote:We dealt with this a bit at Christmas at my parents house. They have 1.5 DSL. They got a sony bluray player to stream. It works fantastic for amazon and YouTube. But you cannot stream netflix on a sony bluray player unless your DSL speed is at least 2.5. I spent about four hours chatting and on the phone with both sony and netflix to determine that is the simple reason it wouldn't work.

I haven't looked into other brands, but I know it is a sony requirement, though Sony tells you it's a bluray requirement. So, if your speed is below 2.5, I would look at other brands do bluray if you want netflix.

But what about wifi? Someone told me that the wireless bandwidth was fixed, I think at 56kpbs, and that it didn't really matter how fast your broadband is. But that was just some dude at Best Buy.

The Bluway with wifi I looked at is Samsung...guess I'll just have to find out more about these models.. :idea:
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6miths
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by 6miths »

My Sony BluRay is streaming Netflix on a DSL/WiFi set up. And the speed test over WiFi registers 2.5+ Mbps. As I said it is DVD quality not HD with that bandwidth.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by bhsince87 »

We stream Netflix and amazon over an older wifi system, with no issues. Cable internet, though. Amazon will dial back the resolution automatically sometimes to keep the frame rate up.

But I pay extra to Netflix just to watch the Blu-ray disks. Their video is superior to any high def or DVD stuff. Seems like a waste to me to use a blu ray player just for streaming!
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Toons
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by Toons »

I truly believe cable high-speed is the way to go for enjoying superb streaming,Video(Netflix,Amazon,Youtube HD quality) music (Pandora,etc).I can't imagine going back to 2mb dsl streaming quality as I remember buffering back in the day. I would check out prices with the cable company as to different tiers of service offered.
Another thought ,don't sell yourself short on download speeds ,you might pay more for particular "tier" of service that offers faster download speeds but once you experience the difference I think you will appreciate it.
As a point of reference I use Comcast ,(Blast is what the tier is called) I pay 63.95 a month for that particular tier,but with the modem that I use (which I purchased,,no need to pay modem rental monthly)I am able to take advantage of download speeds up to 60mb,,,dsl is a fraction of that.I stream wirelessly to laptops ,phones,tablets and a Samsung Smart TV that has built in wireless card and Netflix and Amazon apps built in.Excellent Pictures and No buffering on all devices. :happy
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midareff
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by midareff »

I have Atlantic's Broadband's base internet service and can stream Wi-Fi via Sony Blu-Ray to Samsung Smart TV's, or direct to the TV's themselves. Direct to the TV's is higher quality and Netflix streams AAAOK in HD and 5.1 sound. I'm amazed at the quality.. as good or better than any DVD.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by 4stripes »

caroljm36 wrote:But what about wifi? Someone told me that the wireless bandwidth was fixed, I think at 56kpbs, and that it didn't really matter how fast your broadband is.
You have it backwards. Cable/DSL is always the limiting factor regarding bandwidth. You can verify this easily with a search. Wi-Fi is plenty fast for streaming, after all, nearly every Roku box is wi-fi only. Wireless n real world performance can be about 40 Mbps.

Keep in mind, it is not enough to simply buy an n or ac router and expect those speeds. All wi-fi routers ship to accomodate b/g/n, thus they run at the speed of the slowest connected device. Ideally you should configure your wi-fi to n or ac only, and phase out your g devices, for the best speed.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by Mudpuppy »

caroljm36 wrote:But what about wifi? Someone told me that the wireless bandwidth was fixed, I think at 56kpbs, and that it didn't really matter how fast your broadband is. But that was just some dude at Best Buy.
Don't listen to the dude at Best Buy. The maximum data transfer rate for 802.11g is 54Mbps, which is faster than most USA ISP options (although "slow" in other industrial countries). You'd have to go all the way back to 802.11b (11Mbps) to get something that would be regularly eclipsed by USA ISP options. 802.11n has a maximum data transfer rate of 150Mbps per "channel", with the ability to bond up to 4 channels to get 600Mbps. 802.11ac has many possible data rates depending on configuration, but all are equal to or greater than 802.11g.

Now the issue with WiFi is setting up your system to minimize interference, which can kill the transfer rate by having to spend time retransmitting data that got corrupted. I would recommend using at least 802.11n in the 5GHz band to minimize disruptions from other consumer electronics (and from the microwave, which operates in the 2.4GHz band). But this would require that the BluRay device support 802.11n on the 5GHz band. If it just supports 802.11g or 802.11n in the 2.4GHz band, you'll have to minimize disruptions by careful placement of the BluRay unit and the wifi base station to minimize disruptions.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by Mudpuppy »

4stripes wrote:Keep in mind, it is not enough to simply buy an n or ac router and expect those speeds. All wi-fi routers ship to accomodate b/g/n, thus they run at the speed of the slowest connected device. Ideally you should configure your wi-fi to n or ac only, and phase out your g devices, for the best speed.
Or pay the extra for a multi-band device that will segregate the legacy devices onto one antenna set and provide 802.11n on the other antenna sets. 802.11ac only runs at 5GHz, so if it has backwards support for 802.11g, it is already a multi-band device. With 802.11ac, you worry about it having to backwards support 802.11n devices since those devices do not understand all of the 802.11ac protocol features that allows 802.11ac to increase throughput.
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Kuckie
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by Kuckie »

You have it backwards. Cable/DSL is always the limiting factor regarding bandwidth. You can verify this easily with a search. Wi-Fi is plenty fast for streaming, after all, nearly every Roku box is wi-fi only. Wireless n real world performance can be about 40 Mbps.

Keep in mind, it is not enough to simply buy an n or ac router and expect those speeds. All wi-fi routers ship to accomodate b/g/n, thus they run at the speed of the slowest connected device. Ideally you should configure your wi-fi to n or ac only, and phase out your g devices, for the best speed.
That is correct, unless your client device (TV, Computer, etc.) is at the extreme range or your router. (At extreme ranges signal level and quality rapidly deteriorates.) But until that point is reached, expect real world wireless range of 20 Mbps or higher for the older G routers and about 100 Mbps or higher for N routers. You can check your speed with a laptop computer (for windows) by clicking on Network Sharing Center and clicking on Wireless Connection Status or using a similar procedure for Macs.

Cable normally has a maximum download speed of 20 Mbps and upload of 4 Mbps on a good day, and sometimes less than half when many cable/internet users are on. DSL is dependent on the distance from the TELCO central office and can vary between 3 to as low as 1 Mbps so that would be a problem with HD video

Netflix requires a speed of 5 Mbps for HD video on a large screen TV, however it will automatically adjust down to 2 Mbps to view standard definition video.


Newer routers will NOT slow down and run at the speed of the slowest connected devices. Many of the newest video cameras and wireless printers still run at the G speeds and cause no slowdown. In the worst case scenario the router may slow for less than a micro second to establish a bonding with the slow devices but immediately return to the higher speed. I have an AC router, RT-AC66 U, and the software isolates and protects N from G so in effect both devices operate at their maximum speeds. When running (5) G devices and (3) N my measured 2.4GHZ speed is 144 Mbps or higher.
erikdeb
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by erikdeb »

caroljm36 wrote:

But what about wifi? Someone told me that the wireless bandwidth was fixed, I think at 56kpbs, and that it didn't really matter how fast your broadband is. But that was just some dude at Best Buy.

The Bluway with wifi I looked at is Samsung...guess I'll just have to find out more about these models.. :idea:
Yes, I don't think that is right.....however, he may be right that it doesn't matter much how fast your broadband is on a samsung. The 2.5 "requirement" is exclusively sony with netflix.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by ogd »

6miths wrote:That's interesting. When I do the speed test I get just a smig over 2.5 Mbps. I wasn't aware that Sony players had the limit but I guess we just sneak in over it. Whew!
I hate to bring the bad news, but with 2.5 your Netflix experience will be rather subpar. Even if the player allows it, you'll have lower quality and occasional buffering and switching to a lower resolution which becomes very noticeable after a few minutes of HD glory. I found it very bothersome when I had a flaky connection in a different house. Any way you can bump it up?

And yes, the wifi is very unlikely to be the problem at those speeds.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by 6miths »

ogd wrote:
6miths wrote:That's interesting. When I do the speed test I get just a smig over 2.5 Mbps. I wasn't aware that Sony players had the limit but I guess we just sneak in over it. Whew!
I hate to bring the bad news, but with 2.5 your Netflix experience will be rather subpar. Even if the player allows it, you'll have lower quality and occasional buffering and switching to a lower resolution which becomes very noticeable after a few minutes of HD glory. I found it very bothersome when I had a flaky connection in a different house. Any way you can bump it up?

And yes, the wifi is very unlikely to be the problem at those speeds.
On the ethernet connected player in the basement (where our projector and large screen are) we do get HD quality from Netflix and DVD quality on the smaller screen upstairs is just fine. Interestingly, I find that many programs on HD and especially UHD just do not hold up. I am sure that the high definition formats must be driving make up artists and set designers crazy. Perhaps the future is CGI for everything.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
Carl53
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by Carl53 »

We get 1.5 mb/s on Frontier DSL. The joke is that they raised their billing to state that we have 6Mb service so they could report to the government that our area had 6Mb service. I've got the fastest around as most everybody else is limited to 1Mb and I got grandfathered in. Any rate, not fast enough to stream anything! Several other providers tell the govt they serve the area too. All but one lies about their presence or their speed. TWC flat out refuses to provide a drop and says they never will serve us as they primarily target businesses, but states on broadband.gov that I can get 30Mb service.
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ogd
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by ogd »

6miths wrote:On the ethernet connected player in the basement (where our projector and large screen are) we do get HD quality from Netflix and DVD quality on the smaller screen upstairs is just fine. Interestingly, I find that many programs on HD and especially UHD just do not hold up. I am sure that the high definition formats must be driving make up artists and set designers crazy. Perhaps the future is CGI for everything.
Ah I'm sorry, I didn't realize you weren't the original poster. Thought it was a direct reply.

Interesting. Maybe my connection problems (lots of variability) made it worse than a steady 2.5 Mbps.

As for the HD, when I watch with my glasses or especially contacts I wouldn't trade it for anything less. But that's just me.
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6miths
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by 6miths »

No worry. I agree that for sports and nature and things that are specifically shot for HD and UHD the results are fabulous. But for many TV shows and even some recent movies, the high resolution is revealing a bit too much, IMO.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by madbrain »

There are many different flavors of DSL. In 1997 I had a symmetrical 384/384 kbps DSL.
In some places you can only get so-called "IDSL" which is 128 kbps only.
If you live in Europe, you might be able to get VDSL2 between 50 - 200 megabits/s ... No such luck in the US.

At my current location on a hill, DSL is not even possible. The house is too far from the central office. I choose not to have a landline.
The cable company offers 100 mbit cable, but I'm not willing to pay the premium for that - it's about $200/month.

Video streaming sites like netflix store multiple versions of each video at different bandwidths, so they can adapt to your line speed. The quality won't be the same, of course.
See :
https://support.netflix.com/en/node/87

For 2D HD, their data rate is 2.8 GB per hour . This is about 6.7 Megabits/s.
For 3D HD, their data rate is 4.7 GB per hour. This is about 11.2 Megabits/s.

My current Internet plan from Comcast, which is the cheapest Teleworker plan with unlimited data, guarantees 12 Megabits/s, with a short temporary boost up to 16 Megabits. So it's enough for 3D HD.

However, these data rates are pitiful compared to what you get on an actual physical Blu-ray disc.
Blu-ray discs are typically between 25 GB (single layer) and 50 GB (dual layer). Most of the discs I have seen use about 40 GB. And I am talking 2D movies, not 3D - those are almost always the full 50 GB.

Assuming an average 2D HD 2-hour movie is 40 GB, that translates to an average throughput of 47 Megabits/s.
Assuming an average 3D HD 2-hour movie is 50 GB, that translates to an average throughput of 119 Megabits/s.

Essentially, there is 7-10x more data on the disc than what you get on streaming sites.

In my home theater with my 106" (2D) projection screen, with great speakers, the video from streaming sites, even at the highest bandwidth, look more like VHS tapes or some poor quality DVD with a washed-up picture. They are essentially useless. So, no video streaming for me. It's Blu-ray disc or nothing.

Obviously, most US homes, including mine, don't have the bandwidth to stream 47 - 119 Megabits to have video quality matching that of Blu-ray discs.
They do however, have plenty enough to stream high-quality audio, yet Apple and Amazon is offering only crappy lossily compressed audio.
So, I don't stream audio from commercial Internet sites either.

As far as Wifi, I would recommend Wireless N . In my experience, there is about a 6:1 difference between the advertised performance and actual performance, unless you are streaming 10 feet away from the router - but at that distance, you may as well just use an ethernet cable instead. I used to get about 7 to 9 Megabit/s with Wireless G. With Wireless N it's between 30 and 60 depending on which band I use (2.4 or 5 GHz) and which room. I still have some nearly wifi dead spots too, but I am in a huge house.
I will likely upgrade the router to a more powerful one some day after the next standard is official. I just googled it and it looks like the wireless AC standard was approved in the last week. I see a router upgrade for me in the next year. For me the attraction of high speed wifi is not to stream from the internet, but to stream between several computers, for example, Blu-ray ISOs and SACD ISOs, stored on a file server. Also to backup those computers remotely. I have one HTPC wired, but the other HTPC is far away and using wireless N.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by Kuckie »

I will likely upgrade the router to a more powerful one some day after the next standard is official. I just googled it and it looks like the wireless AC standard was approved in the last week. I see a router upgrade for me in the next year. For me the attraction of high speed wifi is not to stream from the internet, but to stream between several computers, for example, Blu-ray ISOs and SACD ISOs, stored on a file server. Also to backup those computers remotely. I have one HTPC wired, but the other HTPC is far away and using wireless N.
In order to stream at the super high AC speed, you will need to upgrade the client devices that you plan to stream as well as the router.
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Re: BluRay to stream video - is DSL/wifi fast enough?

Post by madbrain »

Kuckie wrote:
I will likely upgrade the router to a more powerful one some day after the next standard is official. I just googled it and it looks like the wireless AC standard was approved in the last week. I see a router upgrade for me in the next year. For me the attraction of high speed wifi is not to stream from the internet, but to stream between several computers, for example, Blu-ray ISOs and SACD ISOs, stored on a file server. Also to backup those computers remotely. I have one HTPC wired, but the other HTPC is far away and using wireless N.
In order to stream at the super high AC speed, you will need to upgrade the client devices that you plan to stream as well as the router.
Yes, I know that.
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