Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

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Cautious Optimist
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Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Cautious Optimist » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:51 am

Hi all. I am a male, mid 40's, living in the NYC area and on the dating scene. Needless to say many of the women I come across are (on paper at least) seemingly much more financially heeled than I. For example they work as lawyers, corporate, finance, etc. and many often own homes in NYC, typically condos. While I am not a pauper (I'm a university professor and a renter) I'm not in that league.

I realize the times we live in are such that women very commonly out earn men, but I struggle with the idea that this won't be a problem (I'm a recovering hopeless romantic). I'll add that these women reach out to me (I'm on a dating website) but in the past I have ruled myself out for these reasons.

My question: In your experience (from either gender perspective) have dynamics as these - the woman out earning the man (and sorry if that sounds so shallow) been a dating deal breaker..??

Thanks...

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VictoriaF
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:57 am

How women spend money is probably more important than how much they make or have. If they are accustomed to expensive restaurants, activities, and vacations, you may not be able to keep up with them. The best way to find out is to meet with the women you like and take it from there.

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RNJ
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by RNJ » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:58 am

Had I taken your tack, I would have foregone a wonderful marriage and children. Best advice I can offer: GET OVER IT.

Good luck!

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by August » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:07 am

If I were you, I wouldn't let it bother me. Being a university professor is an accomplished position, and I think a lawyer and a university professor could make a good match. I think the income only becomes an issue if one person is struggling to get by and the other is well off, as this can lead to awkward situations regarding who pays for things, etc.

On a more personal note, as a mid twenties single, I am usually happy if potential dates have careers and don't live with their parents.

sscritic
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by sscritic » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:12 am

Try looking for someone who has inherited a lot but doesn't make much. She will have the wealth, you will have the income. That's a great balance.

P.S. That's what I did. Oh, wait, did I mention the divorce?

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:13 am

August wrote:If I were you, I wouldn't let it bother me. Being a university professor is an accomplished position, and I think a lawyer and a university professor could make a good match. I think the income only becomes an issue if one person is struggling to get by and the other is well off, as this can lead to awkward situations regarding who pays for things, etc.

On a more personal note, as a mid twenties single, I am usually happy if potential dates have careers and don't live with their parents.
Don't eliminate potential dates because they live with their parents - especially if the potential dates have careers, they could be saving up for a property purchase or just amassing cash, think of the possibilities. I'd be more concerned if the reason they were living with their parents was due to not having a career or an inability to maintain a grasp on their personal finances.
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by englishgirl » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:17 am

What is not romantic in your scenario? Why does being a "recovering hopeless romantic" have anything to do with the size of anyone's paycheck? Don't you feel that they are reaching out to you as a university professor because you have something to offer? Intellectual compatibility? Good conversation? Don't you think that they respect your career even if it doesn't bring the corporate paycheck? To me, finding a university professor that I liked and got on well with would have meant hitting somewhat of a jackpot on the online dating scene.

I met my boyfriend online. His income was not even on my list of priorities as something to be concerned about. And, as it turns out, I out-earn him a few times over. So this has meant that I have gotten used to staying in and watching TV together, or looking for free stuff to do more often than I used to. We go out to lunch more often than we go out to dinner. This is not a bad thing - let's be honest, half the time I was sitting watching TV or surfing the web by myself anyway, and I do have a tendency to want to drink too much wine with dinner! What is far, far more important is that we are very compatible - intellectually, emotionally, politically, food (yes, that was an issue for me), and frugality, and that we have fun together and enjoy each others' company. The only times our wealth differential has caused problems is when he feels some macho need to provide, or gets some idea in his head about my house being MY space and therefore not appropriate for him to move into.
Sarah

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by sscritic » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:18 am

Follow up to my previous post.

Look for a widowed staff person at your school. If her deceased husband carried $4 million of life insurance and she would rather work for peanuts than live off the assets, she might have financial values similar to yours.

P.S. Income isn't wealth and vice-versa.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by dhodson » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:20 am

i recommend reading the book, the five love languages and find someone whose language isnt money/gifts.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by TSR » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:24 am

I've done a lot of dating in my life and while I have mostly learned how much I DON'T know, I think the closest thing to a universal rule I have learned is this: Women are attracted to people who are confident about themselves. This is true whether you are short, tall, muscular, skinny, rich, poor, etc. I'm not talking about false bravado but rather projecting a sense of comfort in one's own skin. The women you are hearing from are interested in you because you sound like you will be educated, intelligent, and not boring. They don't care about your income, and you shouldn't care about theirs.

Good luck!

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Calm Man » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:34 am

OP, I tend to agree with you. I believe it can be a very large problem. It might not manifest itself initially but eventually I think it will. Females likely will (and should) disagree with me but I have seen this be a problem both ways but more so when the female outearns the male. And the problem often comes more from the male than the female.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Professor Emeritus » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:39 am

My mother told me "learn how to cook, Marry a Doctor" And so I did.
to much of the world we are "Dr and Mr Darling Wife". There are 6 of us in the Eng school, all male all married to physicians who make more money.
(There are extra points if you can iron a pleated skirt when DW is about to testify on Capitol Hill)
38 years on and I still do the cooking.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:47 am

TSR wrote:I've done a lot of dating in my life and while I have mostly learned how much I DON'T know, I think the closest thing to a universal rule I have learned is this: Women are attracted to people who are confident about themselves. This is true whether you are short, tall, muscular, skinny, rich, poor, etc. I'm not talking about false bravado but rather projecting a sense of comfort in one's own skin. The women you are hearing from are interested in you because you sound like you will be educated, intelligent, and not boring. They don't care about your income, and you shouldn't care about theirs.

Good luck!
What about if you are a confident, educated and intelligent ogre? They may not care about your income, but they do care about looks. Both men and women can be superficial, it does exist.
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by travellight » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:52 am

I think you should woo them as you would any other woman who made less money. Don't spend more, don't spend less. I do think your concerns are valid and the fact that you are concerned reflects your sensitivity which forebodes a successful outcome. I'd say go for it.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by midareff » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:56 am

Get over it and listen to Victoria. Fiscal responsibility and spending habits are MUCH more important than wages or salary. When I was in my 40's and dating between marriages a guy who 1. Had a job and a place to live. 2. Had all his teeth and could speak using a multisyllabic vocabulary. 3. Could afford to go on a date OUT. 4. A car was a necessity but this is Florida, NYC could be very different on this one. 5. Bathed regularly and knew the difference between showing up in flip flops and gym attire vs. clothes................... with those as the basis I imagine your field is as wide open as mine was.

Fiscal responsibility, kind loving heart, caring soul, good person, religious and ethical compatibility, dedicated to a relationship and family with shared sensibilities..... those are the things that matter in no particular order. If you get that far there is no such thing as too pretty or makes too much money. :oops:

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by mommyshock13 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:57 am

Having known some of those successful single ladies in NYC, it's a sad but resounding yes. Not to say that I agree with them. I find my friends have a LOT of deal breakers and end up in the wrong or no relationship, while not giving a chance to the many other great guys out there. And this is not to say I have shallow friends. These are great gals that THINK they know what they want and what type of guys that can provide it.

But don't let that stop you from trying and meeting these types of women. The right one can be proven wrong.

It reminds me of this quote from Hitch.

Sara: You're a scam artist. You trick women into getting...
Hitch: Into getting out of their own way, so great guys like Albert Brennaman have a fighting chance!

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Caduceus » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:03 pm

Do you mean when you say you rule yourself out that you don't even go on the first date with interested women? Why not just play it by ear and see how it goes after one date, or two, or three? I think there's just way too much variability. Some people might care about the income inequality, others might care that you care about the income inequality, and still others just have absolutely no problem with it. You cannot even make an educated guess without first getting to know the person.

Ultimately, it's going to be a partnership, not a competition. It seems there are two parts here: whether you can get over under-earning a woman, and whether the woman would prefer a higher-earning partner. You can control the first, but probably not the second.

Thanks for such a honest post. It's an interesting thread.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Cautious Optimist » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:09 pm

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate all the different perspectives...

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by travellight » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:11 pm

by Caduceus » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:03 am

Do you mean when you say you rule yourself out that you don't even go on the first date with interested women? Why not just play it by ear and see how it goes after one date, or two, or three? I think there's just way too much variability. Some people might care about the income inequality, others might care that you care about the income inequality, and still others just have absolutely no problem with it. You cannot even make an educated guess without first getting to know the person.

Ultimately, it's going to be a partnership, not a competition. It seems there are two parts here: whether you can get over under-earning a woman, and whether the woman would prefer a higher-earning partner. You can control the first, but probably not the second.

Thanks for such a honest post. It's an interesting thread.
+1

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Andyrunner » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:29 pm

No. My wife earned 3x my income when we dated. Now its closer to 2x as she went down to a .8FTE and I switched jobs. To us, its just the demand/rewards of our career paths. We are both educated and have good jobs (Im in human resources and she is in medicine). If they are interested in you, then they probably have some sense that you arn't a gazillionare and think "an intellectual person I can talk to".

As long as you both have something in common and can carry a conversation with each other, I think income is just "the rewards of that career". You both are established and educated people. Its not like they are a CEO and you flip burgers at a fast food joint (which is still fine, if you get along).

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Watty » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:36 pm

While I am not a pauper (I'm a university professor and a renter) I'm not in that league.
You may have heard reference to the phrase social economic status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_status

A New York lawyer might earn more than you but on the social side of the equation my general impression puts them down with used car dealers on the social side.

Since you are a Bogelhead it is also very likely that you have more disposable income each month than many of them.

You very well might not be in their league but I would not assume that it is the other person that is ahead.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Professor Emeritus » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:38 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
TSR wrote:I've done a lot of dating in my life and while I have mostly learned how much I DON'T know, I think the closest thing to a universal rule I have learned is this: Women are attracted to people who are confident about themselves. This is true whether you are short, tall, muscular, skinny, rich, poor, etc. I'm not talking about false bravado but rather projecting a sense of comfort in one's own skin. The women you are hearing from are interested in you because you sound like you will be educated, intelligent, and not boring. They don't care about your income, and you shouldn't care about theirs.

Good luck!
What about if you are a confident, educated and intelligent ogre? They may not care about your income, but they do care about looks. Both men and women can be superficial, it does exist.
Marry a doctor with coke bottle contact lenses. (-9 diopter) I did :D

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:46 pm

One more thought. Single women in their late 30s are likely to be interested in marrying and having children while they still biologically can. The OP may be a highly desirable partner for many of these women, regardless of their income. If he also wants starting a family that's a significant value he brings into a relationship. If the woman has money to get help with domestic chores and small children, it will eliminate major sources of domestic tension.

Victoria
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Levett » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:55 pm

sscritic.

You are such a sentimentalist! :wink:

Lev

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Dulocracy » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:00 pm

Don't exclude anyone for dating for having money. Exclude them if their spending habits are out of your comfort zone. If you take a lady out to dinner at a place with which you are comfortable, she will either have a good time or be snooty and not date you anymore. You do not want the ones that self-select, and you do not want to miss the one with whom you would have a good time.

Also, remember that later on, when you get married, nothing will change between you if you merge finances. You are used to going out at a level that suits you, and so is she. (And money does not determine how you relate to each other, what shared values you have, or bedroom dynamics.) Money is a resource. If she has more, great! I say it is the spending habit that makes more of a difference than if she does or does not have or make more money.
I'm not a financial professional. Post is info only & not legal advice. No attorney-client relationship exists with reader. Scrutinize my ideas as if you spoke with a guy at a bar. I may be wrong.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Cautious Optimist » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:32 pm

VictoriaF wrote:The OP may be a highly desirable partner for many of these women, regardless of their income. Victoria
Thank you - I like to think that is so...And again thanks to all for the thoughts...

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Barefootgirl » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:02 pm

Much of this feedback seems accurate, if only he were fishing in a Boglehead pond.

The real world is different. I've met lots of people in my lifetime, starving artists as well as multimillionaires. I've even dated
in NYC - the ultimate shark tank (well, maybe behind L.A.)

People are funny about money, so I think his issues are quite valid.

As a single, open minded adult, I like to think of myself as above such mundane matters as income differences, but conscious thinking seems to only get me so far
and then bam, my hunter-gatherer instincts catch up with me and I start wondering about his hunting ability. As an analogy, if he seems willing and able to hunt enough to take care of himself with some saved up for seasons of draught, that seems fine - anything above that is great….anything below that makes me uncomfortable and I am sure there could be many reasons for this, many of which seem to escape the logical side of my mind.

All of this to say that I wouldn't let this keep me from fishing, I just wouldn't linger too long in one place if I didn't get a good feel for how this issue might play out.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by westcoast » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:07 pm

I agree get over it. Find the one you want to spend the rest of your life with and make it work. My wife made much more than I in part of her career, I was very happy for her success.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by stoptothink » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:35 pm

My ex-wife was a dentist (is now, I put her through dental school), she now makes more than twice what I do. My most recent ex-GF was a 1%, was the marketing director for a fortune 50, and had a long history of dating men who were nowhere near as successful as her. After dating for 2yrs, I broke it off in large part because it really bothered me that so many people mooched off her and she thought it was OK. We are still friends and I do know that she is currently dating a guy who is in his mid-30's and the epitome of a moocher (college drop-out, lives with his parents, usually doesn't have a job let alone career). I was remarried recently, my current wife has a good career, but isn't yet on the same level as I am as far as salary or net worth. I would be overjoyed if she someday made more than me, and it isn't unlikely as I have pretty much hit the ceiling in my field.

As long as you have similar goals, I don't think wealth differences really matter. My ex-wife made exactly $0 during our entire marriage and I spent 6-figures putting her through school, yet we had totally different financial philosophies and it ultimately led to the ending of our marriage.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Old Guy » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:39 pm

My late mother was appalled by the idea that I didn't mind if my wife made more money than me. She was also appalled that my wife kept her last name. I encouraged my wife to go for promotions that resulted in her making more money than me since it was more money for US. Look at it that way.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by staythecourse » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Interesting thread.

I see women (mind you I am a guy writing this) viewing it several different ways. One could be they see themselves as successful and want a mate making as much as them in which case you are not in good shape with this subgroup. Another is them saying they already are financially stable and are looking to fill a different part of their life in companionship with another adult in which case you are fine. Another is them wanting NOT someone else who makes money, but wanting someone who is also intelligent like them which means the $$ in your paycheck a nonfactor and you being a college prof. does.

Like in life too many possibilities. In the end as long as you are being honest about your job upfront then if they want to meet you I am sure that it isn't as big of a deal as you are concerned.

Good luck.
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by frugaltype » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:11 pm

Cautious Optimist wrote:Hi all. I am a male, mid 40's, living in the NYC area and on the dating scene. Needless to say many of the women I come across are (on paper at least) seemingly much more financially heeled than I. For example they work as lawyers, corporate, finance, etc. and many often own homes in NYC, typically condos. While I am not a pauper (I'm a university professor and a renter) I'm not in that league.

I realize the times we live in are such that women very commonly out earn men, but I struggle with the idea that this won't be a problem (I'm a recovering hopeless romantic). I'll add that these women reach out to me (I'm on a dating website) but in the past I have ruled myself out for these reasons.

My question: In your experience (from either gender perspective) have dynamics as these - the woman out earning the man (and sorry if that sounds so shallow) been a dating deal breaker..??

Thanks...
If these women are smart, they know they make more money than you do. Just being a university professor at a decent school indicates that you have some of the qualities that would make you a potentially desirable partner.

Go out with them and see what happens.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by texasdiver » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 pm

My wife earns 3x what I do. Was not and is not a problem for us. Although when we met I out-earned her given that she was still in medical training. Give everyone who interests you a chance. You'll quickly figure out who is for real and who isn't.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Fallible » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:00 pm

Cautious Optimist wrote:...
My question: In your experience (from either gender perspective) have dynamics as these - the woman out earning the man (and sorry if that sounds so shallow) been a dating deal breaker..??

Thanks...
OP, it's good that you're trying to resolve this now, at the dating level. If you're only dating and have no special feelings for her (and hopefully there's no love at first sight on her end either), then breaking up isn't hard to do. Go ahead and act based on money as it hurts no one, unless of course the date you drop is THE ONE and now you'll NEVER KNOW IT. That's the chance you take. The real problem begins if you suddenly begin falling for your date, start having serious feelings, and maybe she does, too. Now where does her extra-earning power come in? Or would it? Should it?
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by nash031 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:31 pm

VictoriaF wrote:How women spend money is probably more important than how much they make or have. If they are accustomed to expensive restaurants, activities, and vacations, you may not be able to keep up with them.
This is brilliant advice. My wife is more frugal than I, and I would rather have to talk her into spending than have to talk another woman out of spending.

Way more than income level, spending philosophy is important.

Some day, I hope to be a "kept man." :happy

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by SGM » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:55 pm

Wealth differences should not inhibit a relationship. Victoria is wise. It is the spending not the wealth. My suggestion is to walk proud, have a good sense of humor and don't put any pressure on someone by spending a lot of money on the first date. You might want to consider yourself an asset to anyone you date. Oh forget about that; someone is going to ask if you are stock or a bond. :)
"Let us endeavor, so to live, that when we die, even the undertaker will be sorry." Mark Twain

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by August » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:55 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Don't eliminate potential dates because they live with their parents - especially if the potential dates have careers, they could be saving up for a property purchase or just amassing cash, think of the possibilities. I'd be more concerned if the reason they were living with their parents was due to not having a career or an inability to maintain a grasp on their personal finances.
I have to respectfully disagree. At least in my experience, there is a significant amount of personal growth that occurs when someone lives on their own without parents for a few years. I lived at home for a few years after college to save up some money, I had a career, but still felt like a kid in a lot of ways. I don't know that it's possible to completely "grow up" until a person is out on their own. I'm sure there are exceptions to this of course, and YMMV.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by jodydavis » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:10 pm

Cautious Optimist wrote:
My question: In your experience (from either gender perspective) have dynamics as these - the woman out earning the man (and sorry if that sounds so shallow) been a dating deal breaker..??
One nice thing about online dating is that self-selection helps you with this potential issue. For some women, it may be a deal-breaker; for others, not. Presumably the fact that you are a professor is listed on your profile somewhere, so the women who are reaching out to you know this and have a rough sense of what that means financially. So the fact that they reach out to you indicates that, by definition, it's not a deal-breaker for them. So go for it!

Of course, this assumes that the issue is whether it's a deal-breaker for her, and not whether it's a deal-breaker for you. From your observed behavior so far (i.e. not going on those dates), it seems like the latter may be the more relevant issue ... :happy

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Rob5TCP » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:36 pm

You will the entire range of reactions. My friends are married and both attorneys (she makes about 2x what he does). That has never come between them in the 20+ years they have known each other.
They, over the years, have introduced me to many of their female friends. As an anecdote only: she made about 30-40% more than I did and that to her was reason enough not to go any further (not that I had any interest in her). I have seen all sorts of reactions.

Their is one big thing in your favor:

If a woman, unmarried in her mid 30's or older is looking for a spouse; the pool is dramatically smaller when you get to the higher income echelons. If she keeps waiting for that wealthy magnate, she will probably wait forever. Most woman, especially if they are financially comfortable, are interested in a compatible mate (at least from my experience). They don't want a "gold digger". But are realistic of what the dating pool is like.
Hate to put it so clinically and dry, but it is what it is.

That said, there in nothing to prevent romance blooming despite wealth differences. Don't you make yourself the an obstacle when none exists.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Caduceus » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:29 pm

More generally, what's interesting is that men may see themselves as being in a "lose-lose" situation. Men are constantly reminded that there's (obviously) nothing wrong with women earning as much (if not more) than them, but simultaneously made to feel "less than" (often by the women they are dating!) if they don't make as much.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by HomerJ » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:47 pm

Cautious Optimist wrote:My question: In your experience (from either gender perspective) have dynamics as these - the woman out earning the man (and sorry if that sounds so shallow) been a dating deal breaker..??
Ha! I HIGHLY recommend marrying a woman who makes more than you.... Do some people really think that's a negative?
Last edited by HomerJ on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by HomerJ » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:48 pm

VictoriaF wrote:How women spend money is probably more important than how much they make or have. If they are accustomed to expensive restaurants, activities, and vacations, you may not be able to keep up with them. The best way to find out is to meet with the women you like and take it from there.

Victoria
Oh, that's a good point... I married a woman who has always made more than me, and she's more frugal than me... Very nice combo.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by haban01 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:55 pm

I think you need to focus on finding a partner than has similar financial values and goals as you. One could save 5K on a 50K Salary and another make 200K and spend 225K a year. (Hope that makes sense). I don't believe you are going to change a person. It has to be in their heart. I know a number of people where the woman out earns the man. I once had a ex-girlfriend tell me that she could never marry a man that made less than her, wanted to stay home and be with future kids and take a 10K vacation a year. Needless to say for the better, I knew that would never work! Don't give up on what you are looking for.
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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by tj » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:11 pm

August wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Don't eliminate potential dates because they live with their parents - especially if the potential dates have careers, they could be saving up for a property purchase or just amassing cash, think of the possibilities. I'd be more concerned if the reason they were living with their parents was due to not having a career or an inability to maintain a grasp on their personal finances.
I have to respectfully disagree. At least in my experience, there is a significant amount of personal growth that occurs when someone lives on their own without parents for a few years. I lived at home for a few years after college to save up some money, I had a career, but still felt like a kid in a lot of ways. I don't know that it's possible to completely "grow up" until a person is out on their own. I'm sure there are exceptions to this of course, and YMMV.
Most of the women I meet who live with their parents have moved back home after living independently for a few years.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by dgdevil » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:26 pm

August wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Don't eliminate potential dates because they live with their parents - especially if the potential dates have careers, they could be saving up for a property purchase or just amassing cash, think of the possibilities. I'd be more concerned if the reason they were living with their parents was due to not having a career or an inability to maintain a grasp on their personal finances.
I have to respectfully disagree. At least in my experience, there is a significant amount of personal growth that occurs when someone lives on their own without parents for a few years. I lived at home for a few years after college to save up some money, I had a career, but still felt like a kid in a lot of ways. I don't know that it's possible to completely "grow up" until a person is out on their own. I'm sure there are exceptions to this of course, and YMMV.
Before I met her, my wife lived with her parents through much of her 20s so that she could save enough to buy a condo. Mission accomplished and aforementioned "personal growth" achieved. Then she met me, moved to my place, and rents out the (mortgage-free) condo for major bucks. Her friends, some of whom may have looked down on for living with her parents, are still renters with no savings.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by August » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 pm

As I said there are definitely exceptions to the living at home rule, but it is something of a red flag that makes me wonder why. It could also be that I am attracted to independent types due to my job requiring lots of traveling.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:07 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
August wrote:If I were you, I wouldn't let it bother me. Being a university professor is an accomplished position, and I think a lawyer and a university professor could make a good match. I think the income only becomes an issue if one person is struggling to get by and the other is well off, as this can lead to awkward situations regarding who pays for things, etc.

On a more personal note, as a mid twenties single, I am usually happy if potential dates have careers and don't live with their parents.
Don't eliminate potential dates because they live with their parents - especially if the potential dates have careers, they could be saving up for a property purchase or just amassing cash, think of the possibilities. I'd be more concerned if the reason they were living with their parents was due to not having a career or an inability to maintain a grasp on their personal finances.
Post this recession living with your parents is just not that unusual any more. People are really struggling to get their careers going, get independence. Or they are post marital breakup, job loss etc. and trying to sort out their finances.

And especially in greater NYC, where the cost of housing is just prohibitive.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:08 am

August wrote:As I said there are definitely exceptions to the living at home rule, but it is something of a red flag that makes me wonder why. It could also be that I am attracted to independent types due to my job requiring lots of traveling.
I think you have to be aware that times have changed.

There has been both a brutal and prolongued recession *and* rents have kept going up in greater NYC.

The rules of moving out and living independently have just changed.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:21 am

Cautious Optimist wrote:Hi all. I am a male, mid 40's, living in the NYC area and on the dating scene. Needless to say many of the women I come across are (on paper at least) seemingly much more financially heeled than I. For example they work as lawyers, corporate, finance, etc. and many often own homes in NYC, typically condos. While I am not a pauper (I'm a university professor and a renter) I'm not in that league.

I realize the times we live in are such that women very commonly out earn men, but I struggle with the idea that this won't be a problem (I'm a recovering hopeless romantic). I'll add that these women reach out to me (I'm on a dating website) but in the past I have ruled myself out for these reasons.

My question: In your experience (from either gender perspective) have dynamics as these - the woman out earning the man (and sorry if that sounds so shallow) been a dating deal breaker..??

Thanks...
*They* will worry about it. Women are (culturally?) hardwired to look for a good provider.

You have to be upfront about it and you have to be clear that you can't afford some of the things they do at the drop of a hat: expensive restaurants, weekends jetting away etc.

But I am a great believer that if you are honest with people, you can then find someone for whom this is not an issue. Let's face it, professional women in their 30s will have had the full range of the male experience: freeloaders, Mr Big Moneys who are shallow and arrogant (to quote a lawyer friend of mine 'I stopped dating bankers when one of them told me his net worth on the first date'), men looking for another mother, men who are not actually single etc. Also of course the tendency of men to chase the pretty much younger women. These women are no longer the 'much younger women' of the New York dating scene-- you'd be dating grad students if you wanted that! ;-). (grad students at *other* institutions of course ;-). Before he died Tony Judt of NYU wrote quite a wry funny piece about gender issues in american university history departments, which culminated in him marrying one of his grad students ;-)).

These women are no longer the 'pretty young thing' that they were in the 20s-- there's a hedge fund manager (Arki Busson) who has fathered children with *both* Elle Macpherson and Uma Thurman. They are not in that league.

So since they have a degree of financial and material success, that's something they can let go in the pursuit of someone who is kind, nurturing and 'real'.

Maybe women are biased to look for a good provider. But they are even more hardwired to look for someone who is (emotionally) strong, capable of sorting things out/ problem solving, decisive etc. As well as intelligent, capable of carrying on a conversation with their parents and friends, etc. Academics may not have an economic street cred, but they have a social street cred.

So if you can manage to be physically normal looking, emotionally stable, no obvious agenda, well it's New York City-- it's full of high paid women who are successful and probably a bit lonely.

And if you are 'real' and open and honest, I truly believe you will find someone (kissing a lot of frogs on the way). I had more or less given up when Mrs. Vt wandered into my life.

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Re: Dating, Gender, & Wealth Differences...

Post by bearcub » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:25 am

Marry a rich widow with one foot in the grave,the other on a banana peel.I always preferred Lovie"Mrs.Howell" over Ginger or Maryann. :beer

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