Where do Bogleheads call home?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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What country do you call home?

Poll ended at Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:04 am

United States
137
90%
Canada
3
2%
Mexico
0
No votes
Central and South America (ex-Mexico)
3
2%
United Kingdom
3
2%
Continental Europe (including Ireland and Greenland)
1
1%
Middle East
0
No votes
Africa
0
No votes
Central Asia (including Russia, India)
1
1%
Central Pacific Rim and Southeast Asia (Japan, China, Korea, excluding Russia, Australia)
2
1%
Australia, New Zealand and and Oceania
2
1%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 152

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Rick Ferri
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Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Rick Ferri »

I'm curious where the Bogleheads call home. If you do not live in the US, I'm also curious how easy and expensive it is for you to invest in Bogleheads strategies in your home country (index funds, ETFs, other low cost investing products).

Thanks!

Rick Ferri
Last edited by Rick Ferri on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.
Wagnerjb
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Wagnerjb »

Rick: I am an American citizen and I live in the USA now. But for seven years (1996-2003) I lived overseas working for a Fortune 500 company as an expat. I was in Southeast Asia (not on your listing) and in Europe.

My company's arrangement for its expats made it easy to invest in Vanguard funds while I was overseas. The company allowed us to use the street address of our HQ in Texas as our mailing address. Letters would come to the HQ and the mail room forwarded them to us (in a package) in the foreign location. From the foreign location, we would prepare letters with US stamps and they would be gathered up, packaged up and forwarded to the US HQ office, who would open the package and put the letters in the US mail. With this arrangement, it looked to all that we still lived in the USA.
I never had a single issue with my bank or investments.

Best wishes.
Andy
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Rick Ferri
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Rick Ferri »

Thanks, Andy. I change the Pacific Rim choice to include Southeast Asia.

Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.
MoonOrb
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by MoonOrb »

I'm an American who was an expat from 2005-2007 in New Zealand. We quit investing while we were there. One reason was our cost of living was so much higher: between the difference in wages, somewhat higher taxes, and generally more expensive prices for goods and services, I reckon we made about 45% of what we earned in the US before we moved. We also burned through a lot of money just making the move happen, so there was that.
bcjb
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by bcjb »

Why is Greenland included in the United Kingdom option? It's part of Denmark.

As for your question; I'm in the US but family members are in Continental Europe, and they haven't been able to find cheap index funds. (I'm trying to help them invest, so if I've overlooked something, please let me know!) ETFs are more expensive there than here as well. E.g. the IShares world (incl US) equity ETF has a 0.6% ER in Europe and 0.34% in the US.

And then there are higher taxes!
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Sunny Sarkar
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Sunny Sarkar »

Hi Rick,

A couple years back I had several conversations with a family member in India regarding investing in index funds in India. I have sent him an email asking what his experience has been like - will keep you posted.

In the mean time, I saw this article in the Economic Times (of India). It's depressing to see several index funds with expense ratios near or above 1.5% make it to the Top 10 list. What would we do if Jack Bogle didn't come along?

Best wishes,
Sunny
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle
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SecretAsianMan
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by SecretAsianMan »

When did Greenland become a part of the UK? Was there an invasion when I wasn't looking? Also, it would make sense to divide Central Asia into Central Asia (incl. Russia, 'Stans and nearby areas) and South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.). Or alternately include Central Asia under "Other" if you're running out of spaces since I doubt we have many readers from there. And where's the love for South and Central America? Mexico gets its own entry but the rest of Latin America is relegated to "Other"? For shame. It's a good thing you make up for in investing acumen what you lack in geography skills.

SAM
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kramer
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by kramer »

I live in the Philippines; I came here a few years after I early retired. But I am a USA citizen and very happy that I grew up in a great place like the US.

I keep all of my investments in the US. I do some minimal banking in the Philippines and had to put up a bond for a permanent visa, but the amounts are small -- although they are large enough to have to go through the hassle of filing an FBAR statement with the US Treasury department each year.

I have a moderate investment in the Philippines stock market in order to hedge long term inflation and currency risk here, but even that investment is done entirely through an ETF based in the US.

In the Philippines, the FDIC equivalent (which is actually fairly well funded) protects bank accounts up to only about the equivalent of $11,000. Most serious investing is in US dollars and it is the de facto second currency as the Philippines Peso is not a true convertible currency. I can deposit a check from my US bank directly into my Philippines dollar account and it clears in about three weeks. I do not know much about the local opportunities to invest in global mutual funds and ETFs are but I think they are quite limited.
Tonen
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Tonen »

Australia

Low cost investing is getting easier and easier. Though the overall penetration of passive investing is less than in USA, there are better and better options becoming available.
As a generalisation, for those willing to look, broad market products e.g. from Vanguard and DFA run at about 0.35% MER.

Many public offer superannuation (retirement) funds have index options available, though also require the investor to make a choice to use them rather than being a default option. Having said that, recent legislation enacted will make all public-offer Superannuation funds offer "MySuper" as a default option - broadly characterised as low-cost passive lifecycle. This is a win for combining low-cost passive with the natural tendency of most participants to not be engaged in decision making - Bogleheadism by default!
http://strongersuper.treasury.gov.au/co ... ysuper.htm

Its also interesting to note that DFA funds form the backbone of the default option of public-servant superannuation scheme in my State. http://qsuper.qld.gov.au/members/invest ... x?id=stock

Another really nice recent legislative development allows retail investors to be able to buy all Reserve Bank bonds on the stock exchange for prices identical to the institutional market. As directly held instruments, there is no ongoing management fee, with the only additional cost the one-off around 0.1% brokerage.
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/inter ... NMENT_BOND
Code Commit
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Code Commit »

I have been living in the US over a decade now. But, I would also like to just add +1 to what Sunny said above. Not only, the index funds in India are still fairly expensive (1% or more), but they also get trounced by active funds (who charge over 2%) very regularly. I really don't know what the reason is. Relative inefficiency, or bad indexing execution, or less effort by the fund companies to improve indexing due to their vested interest, or just incompetence, or simply that a Bogle hasn't shown up yet. I am just thankful for my 0.05% for US and 0.15% for international index fund expenses any day.
Spirit Rider
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Spirit Rider »

What about Central America and Latin America. I would think there would likely be a representative sample.
pinecrest
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Post by pinecrest »

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Last edited by pinecrest on Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rick Ferri
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Rick Ferri »

bcjb wrote:Why is Greenland included in the United Kingdom option? It's part of Denmark.
Spirit Rider wrote:What about Central America and Latin America. I would think there would likely be a representative sample.
Fixed. Sorry!

Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.
longinvest
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by longinvest »

Rick Ferri wrote:I'm curious where the Bogleheads call home. If you do not live in the US, I'm also curious how easy and expensive it is for you to invest in Bogleheads strategies in your home country (index funds, ETFs, other low cost investing products).
Hi Rick,

I live in Canada. Our mutual fund industry is one of the most expensive, world-wide.

Here, index funds are relatively expensive. The cheapest index funds, the TD eSeries, area pain to buy as they're not available at discount brokers (except TD's own brokerage, of course). Their expense ratios range from .33% to .53% and cover Canadian stocks, US stocks, International stocks, and Canadian bonds. You can find a quite good summary of Boglehead-like index funds on: http://canadiancouchpotato.com/recommended-index-funds/

On the ETF scene, it's better. In 2011, Vanguard finally came to Canada and has started competing on costs. Its first ETF for Canadian large stocks (VCE) had a management fee of .09%. My portfolio is built using Vanguard Canada ETFs: https://www.vanguardcanada.ca/individual/etfs/etfs.htm

The Canadian equivalent of the Three Fund Portfolio is divided as follows (with Vanguard Canada's management fee):
- Canadian Bonds (.20%)
- Canadian Stocks (.12% for total market)
- US Stocks (.15%)
- Developed Markets Stocks (.28%)
- (optional) Emerging Markets Stocks (.33%)

I hope this helps.

longinvest
Bogleheads investment philosophy | One-ETF global balanced index portfolio | VPW
BC_Doc
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by BC_Doc »

Hi Rick,

I'm another Canuck-- I grew up in the US and emigrated to Canada 20+ years ago.

I use Vanguards US ETFs for my equity investing (VTI and VEU held in global cap weightings). I use a technique called "Norbert's Gambit" (thank you to fellow Boglehead Norbert Schlenker) to convert my hard earned Canadian dollars to USD-- the gambit allows me to convert my currency at the spot rate for cost of about $25 per currency exchange.

Vanguard opened an office in Canada a few years ago. Within the past year, it launched an equivalent to VTI traded over the Toronto Stock Exchange. The cost is slightly higher (0.15% MER) but a big advantage is the product trades in Canadian dollars. Thus far, there is no equivalent to VEU-- I suspect an equivalent will come with time though.

As a Canadian investor, I would love to see Vanguard offer mutual funds north of the border. I would also like to see a few more funds (VEU and VT in addition to VTI). Finally, I would like to see the ETF costs equivalent to the costs of their US versions (as is the case in Australia with Vanguard ETFs).

Thx,

BC Doc
shashiraj8
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by shashiraj8 »

I live in US, but help family members in India with their investments.

Expense Ratio for Index Funds in India is around 1% (e.g. Index funds from HDFC, Franklin India, etc.) Starting Jan 1, 2013 investors also have an option to buy directly from Asset Management Companies and are called "Direct Plans". With "Direct Plans" the Expense Ratio drops by another 0.3-0.5% and in the best case scenario the lowest Expense Ratio for Index Funds might be around 0.5%.

For actively managed funds that I have looked at, the Expense Ratio for funds is 1.75% or higher. "Direct Plans" are also available for actively managed funds.

Given the lack of low-cost index funds, nature of index funds and the markets covered by index funds, I think following Boglehead philosophy is a bit challenging for an investor in India.
marcos123
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by marcos123 »

I ER'ed to Brazil about a decade ago (US citizen), and while active in the local financial markets, would not even consider holding a local mutual fund or ETF owing to exorbitant E/R's.

Local fixed income mutual funds fees average at least 1% and local active equity funds 3%. There are no decent fixed income index fund or ETF options. Index equity funds exist, but who would want to pay 2% for a market cap weighted fund mirroring the Ibovespa?! Equity ETFs were finally introduced about 2-3 years ago but they remain thinly traded, have E/Rs of over 1%, and subject to relatively unfavorable local tax treatment.

So what do I invest in locally (aside from real estate)? Mainly local fixed income securities. For sovereign local currency bonds, there is the local equivalent of Treasury Direct, a low-cost option. Availing of taper tantrum opportunities, I recently bought 10-year paper at close to 13.5%. The local equivalent of TIPS currently offer real yields of over 6% at all maturities. There are other instruments available, negotiable directly with a local bank or brokerage house. To a much lesser extent I have been a long-term investor of individual equities on the Bovespa stock exchange, which despite extremely high volatility, have had a good run over the last decade.
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Makane
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Re: Where do Bogleheads call home?

Post by Makane »

Hi Rick!

I'm the 1%! .. At least the 1% that clicked continental Europe. Index fund/ETF TER's have gone down quite a bit in Europe in the last five years, but it's still around 0.5% for a lot of funds. Vanguard is among the cheapest with their new products that they launched in Ireland, incl. FTSE All-World Index (VWRL) 0.25%. Vanguard offers them in many European currencies, which I suspect a lot of Europeans prefer: GBP/EUR/CHF.

I just own VTI (total stock market) + VXUS (total international stock market, ex US) in USD.
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