Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

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ruanddu
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Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by ruanddu » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:16 pm

Hello,

I would like to find something for my wife to carry with her when she walks around the neighborhood for protection. Do you have any recommendations on good brands/models of pepper spray or similar type product? I also heard Wasp spray can be effective due to the distance it can shoot but don't know if that's true? Thanks.

marbles100
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by marbles100 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:23 pm

Pepper spray is considered a weapon and is restricted in some states, as perhaps you're already aware. It's best to check your state laws/local law enforcement about restrictions (amount/concentration, where bought, and whether you need to register with police to carry it).

nordlead
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by nordlead » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:32 pm

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... st=1875400

this thread is actively going and discusses self defense weapons.

retiredjg
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by retiredjg » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:03 pm

I think pepper spray is a pretty good option, if she gets the training for it and does a little practice. Spraying someone is not entirely intuitive (believe it or not), so a little practice is a good thing. As with any weapon, she has to realize and understand that if she is "disarmed", the weapon can be used against her rather than for her. If she has not thought of that beforehand, it might be quite a shock.

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timboktoo
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by timboktoo » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:53 pm

If she needs something for protection in your neighborhood, then it would be best if she didn't walk around your neighborhood. The best way to win an assault is to not get involved in one.

The second best way is to defend yourself with a gun and self-defense training. I don't personally walk around with a firearm outside of my home and I don't think I'd ever walk around a neighborhood I trusted so little as to feel like I had to carry one, but there's no substitute for a firearm in the hands of someone who is comfortable handling one.

If you don't match a gun with a gun and training with training, you don't stand a very good chance of coming out on top. Pepper spray might help with training, if it's already out and if the attacker has no weapons of their own and if there's only one attacker. But that's counting on a lot of luck in a bad-luck situation. Guns and training are what make a fight even or give you an advantage. Nothing else will come close.

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cheese_breath
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by cheese_breath » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Walk with a big dog who loves you so much he'd sacrifice his life to protect you. I know it's sad to think of, but I'm serious.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

chaz
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by chaz » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:58 pm

timboktoo wrote:If she needs something for protection in your neighborhood, then it would be best if she didn't walk around your neighborhood. The best way to win an assault is to not get involved in one.

The second best way is to defend yourself with a gun and self-defense training. I don't personally walk around with a firearm outside of my home and I don't think I'd ever walk around a neighborhood I trusted so little as to feel like I had to carry one, but there's no substitute for a firearm in the hands of someone who is comfortable handling one.

If you don't match a gun with a gun and training with training, you don't stand a very good chance of coming out on top. Pepper spray might help with training, if it's already out and if the attacker has no weapons of their own and if there's only one attacker. But that's counting on a lot of luck in a bad-luck situation. Guns and training are what make a fight even or give you an advantage. Nothing else will come close.
Good advice. She would need to register her gun and get a permit from your police dept.
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Raymond
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by Raymond » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:53 pm

chaz wrote:...Good advice. She would need to register her gun and get a permit from your police dept.
Depends on where she lives. Many states and localities do not require registration of individual firearms (except for the initial Federal paperwork if purchased new), and concealed-carry permits are often issued by the state, not local law enforcement (if a permit is even needed at all.)

For the OP:

I would recommend a liquid stream or foam pepper defense product, as it is less likely to be blown back or float back to the user.

Something like this: Mace Pepper Spray Police Strength 10% Pepper Foam (Large)- Amazon.com

As an aside, I use up my expired cans of pepper spray by spraying the base of my mailbox post, keeps the darn neighborhood dogs from peeing and pooping there as they and their owners walk by - one sniff of the post and the dog suddenly wants to hurry on :mrgreen:
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:43 am

chaz wrote: If you don't match a gun with a gun and training with training, you don't stand a very good chance of coming out on top.
Probably also true if you do match a gun with training but never killed anybody in cold blood.

As I recall the statistics on this are rather depressing. The likelihood of you or a loved one getting killed with your gun is much higher than the likelihood of you protecting your own life with it. Yes. of course, you would be extra careful and it would never happen to you. Famous last words.

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deanbrew
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by deanbrew » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:14 am

protagonist wrote:
chaz wrote: As I recall the statistics on this are rather depressing. The likelihood of you or a loved one getting killed with your gun is much higher than the likelihood of you protecting your own life with it. Yes. of course, you would be extra careful and it would never happen to you. Famous last words.
That's completely untrue. Guns are used every day for protection, in numbers far exceeding accidental deaths by owned guns or guns turned on their owners. Note that it's proper and legitimate to include instances where no shots are fired... where the simple presentation of a gun causes bad guys to flee. Nobody wants to get shot, even stupid thugs. If owning a gun were as dangerous as gun rights opponents believe, hospitals and morgues would be overflowing. 47 percent of households have guns... that's nearly 150 million people. Believe it or not, armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year.

As to the OP, carrying a gun is a wise option only if you are comfortable doing so, are familiar with using the gun and are willing to use it to defend yourself. The same parameters apply to pepper spray, of course, which can gain you seconds to escape. You have to be aware of your surroundings and be ready to respond instantly to a threat no matter what defensive tools you choose.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

glock19
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by glock19 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:18 am

protagonist wrote:
chaz wrote: If you don't match a gun with a gun and training with training, you don't stand a very good chance of coming out on top.
Probably also true if you do match a gun with training but never killed anybody in cold blood.

As I recall the statistics on this are rather depressing. The likelihood of you or a loved one getting killed with your gun is much higher than the likelihood of you protecting your own life with it. Yes. of course, you would be extra careful and it would never happen to you. Famous last words.

Could you please provide a link to these statistics? I've heard this before but have been unable to ever find legitimate verification.

I don't feel anyone should consider the owning or carrying of a firearm if they are uncomfortable doing so, but inferring that others are incapable needs corroboration.

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:24 am

deanbrew wrote:
protagonist wrote:
chaz wrote: As I recall the statistics on this are rather depressing. The likelihood of you or a loved one getting killed with your gun is much higher than the likelihood of you protecting your own life with it. Yes. of course, you would be extra careful and it would never happen to you. Famous last words.
That's completely untrue. Guns are used every day for protection, in numbers far exceeding accidental deaths by owned guns or guns turned on their owners.
This from a very reliable source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058

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deanbrew
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by deanbrew » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:41 am

protagonist wrote:
This from a very reliable source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058
I can't access your link, but considering it has "med" in the name, am I right to assume that it is a medical source? And would include only instances where there were serious injuries or death, and thus exclude the many, many more times that no shots were fired? If no shots are fired, often there is no reporting, and even if there is a report to the police, there are no statistics kept regarding guns used to thwart crime when no shots are fired. It also would exclude instances where shots were fired with no injuries (warning shots or misses), or incidents where dangerous animals, not people, were shot?

Take a look at this link: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... r-injuries
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:43 am

Plus, just consider possible scenarios:

Best case scenarios:

1. Wife is out running, gets attacked by potential violent assailant from front, has enough time and composure to pull gun, doesn't shoot, assailant gets scared and runs away. Wife has great story to tell at cocktail parties. Win.

2. Attack is from front and is valid, life-threatening. Wife quickly pulls gun, shoots assailant, kills him or leaves him incapacitated. Wife survives attack, goes through court battle, declared innocent (self-defense), a few years of psychotherapy ends her nightmares and guilt over "what if". Win.

Other scenarios:
1. Attacker jumps out of bushes and grabs wife from behind (more likely I would think). Wife fumbles for gun. Attacker panics and shoots wife with his own weapon, or overpowers wife and uses her own gun against her.

2. Wife reaches for gun. Attacker is cold-blooded killer, sees wife go for gun, wife isn't fast enough or experienced enough, attacker pulls his own gun and shoots wife in self-defense, or, though unarmed, overpowers her and kills her out of rage.

3. Wife over-reacts and perceives a harmless scary person, or a simple pickpocket or thief, for a bodily threat. Pulls gun, kills kid. Gets convicted of murder, or at least loses civil suit, bankrupting family and, even if avoiding prison, winds up living the rest of her life with horrible guilt of killing innocent 17 year old. Psychotherapy don't help with nightmares.

4. Never gets attacked or pulls gun while running (highly likely) but gun used somehow by somebody in accident, suicide, domestic quarrel, etc. with horrific results.

Which scenario is most likely? Do you want to have to guess?

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:47 am

deanbrew wrote:
protagonist wrote:
This from a very reliable source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058
I can't access your link, but considering it has "med" in the name, am I right to assume that it is a medical source? And would include only instances where there were serious injuries or death, and thus exclude the many, many more times that no shots were fired? If no shots are fired, often there is no reporting, and even if there is a report to the police, there are no statistics kept regarding guns used to thwart crime when no shots are fired. It also would exclude instances where shots were fired with no injuries (warning shots or misses), or incidents where dangerous animals, not people, were shot?

Take a look at this link: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... r-injuries
The link is to a meta-analysis of studies assessing risk and benefit of a gun in the home. Since you could not access it, here is the abstract from the paper: "Abstract

This article summarizes the scientific literature on the health risks and benefits of having a gun in the home for the gun owner and his/her family. For most contemporary Americans, scientific studies indicate that the health risk of a gun in the home is greater than the benefit. The evidence is overwhelming for the fact that a gun in the home is a risk factor for completed suicide and that gun accidents are most likely to occur in homes with guns. There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes. On the benefit side, there are fewer studies, and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in. Thus, groups such as the American Academy of Pediatrics urge parents not to have guns in the home."

TimDex
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by TimDex » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:49 am

The medical site you link to requires registration. Generally, any public health commentary on gun use age tends to be very skewed. There are a lot more defensive gun uses each year than the media would have you believe. See pretty much any research by Gary Kleck.

That said, I would consider having a usable pepper spray as an option. If it prevents a political prosecutor from turning you into the next George Zimmerman, then it could be practical.

Tim
"All man's miseries derive from not being able to sit quietly in a room alone. " -- Pascal

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Ketawa
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by Ketawa » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:50 am

Your "scenarios" are incredibly biased, but even so, I'm pretty sure the "best case" scenarios are far more likely. Especially so if the wife receives proper training.

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deanbrew
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by deanbrew » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:54 am

Which scenario is most likely? Do you want to have to guess?
My guess?

5. Never gets attacked or pulls gun while running, and gun is never used somehow by somebody in accident, suicide, domestic quarrel, etc. with horrific results. Gun is used for recreational target shooting, providing hours of enjoyment and relaxation. Gun is kept in a locked handgun safe, making it off-limits to visiting children, but available for use should an unsavory visitor show up at the door at 3AM. Gun is purchased for $400, is kept for 30 years and eventually sold for $800 or inherited by grateful heir.
Last edited by deanbrew on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:56 am

deanbrew wrote:[
Take a look at this link: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... r-injuries
There are two very obvious flaws in this article.
1. The conclusion: "crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves". Even if this were true, this does not take into account injury rates among people who are not "crime victims" (whatever that means). Of course, a gun would be more effective than a baseball bat or many "other strategies".
2. The article is based on FOUR studies from 1988-2004. This is a very hot topic. Surely way more than four studies were done. One must be highly suspicious of cherry-picking. It's like looking at the performance of Walmart and Microsoft and saying that "individual stocks far outperform index funds".
Last edited by protagonist on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:00 am

deanbrew wrote:
Which scenario is most likely? Do you want to have to guess?
My guess?

5. Never gets attacked or pulls gun while running, and gun is never used somehow by somebody in accident, suicide, domestic quarrel, etc. with horrific results. Gun is used for recreational target shooting, providing hours of enjoyment and relaxation. Gun is kept in a locked handgun safe, making it off-limits to visiting children, but available for use should an unsavory visitor show up at the door at 3AM. Gun is purchased for $400, is kept for 30 years and eventually sold for $800 or inherited by grateful heir.
Yes, true. But the question is if the risks (though admittedly low) of death or bodily injury justify the more likely scenario re: the pleasure that the person gets from the gun. That's a personal decision. And this is not pertinent to OP's situation, since OP wants a weapon for self-defense....never mentioned target shooting or hunting or getting any pleasure from gun ownership.

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deanbrew
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by deanbrew » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:04 am

protagonist wrote:
deanbrew wrote:[
Take a look at this link: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... r-injuries
There are two very obvious flaws in this article.
1. The conclusion: "crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves". Even if this were true, this does not take into account injury rates among people who are not "crime victims" (whatever that means).
2. The article is based on FOUR studies from 1988-2004. This is a very hot topic. Surely way more than four studies were done. One must be highly suspicious of cherry-picking. It's like looking at the performance of Walmart and Microsoft and saying that "individual stocks far outperform index funds".
You are looking at known biased medical source and accuse me of "cherry-picking"? Nice try.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

protagonist
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:08 am

deanbrew wrote:
protagonist wrote:
deanbrew wrote:[
Take a look at this link: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... r-injuries
There are two very obvious flaws in this article.
1. The conclusion: "crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves". Even if this were true, this does not take into account injury rates among people who are not "crime victims" (whatever that means).
2. The article is based on FOUR studies from 1988-2004. This is a very hot topic. Surely way more than four studies were done. One must be highly suspicious of cherry-picking. It's like looking at the performance of Walmart and Microsoft and saying that "individual stocks far outperform index funds".
You are looking at known biased medical source and accuse me of "cherry-picking"? Nice try.
What is the obvious bias of Medscape? The entire medical professional community uses it. And what is the flaw in the article? I didn't accuse you of cherry-picking. I accused the author of the US News article of cherry-picking. He provides ample reason for this, using only four studies (uncited) to make his argument.

Below are the 101 cited references for the Medscape-referenced article:

[ CLOSE WINDOW ]
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by SmallSaver » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:12 am

Man, these threads are like catnip. Even people who should know better (me) have to weigh in. I'm always a little amazed at all the people who go straight to suggesting tools (weapons). Is the person carrying it really prepared to use it? What's you plan? When do you display the weapon, at which point the confrontation becomes a life or death situation? When do you decide to shoot? Are you prepared to make those decisions in a highly stressed situation? IMHO;

1) Self defense seems mostly about awareness and willingness to protect your personal space. You need to be ready to look someone in the eye and tell them to eff off when they are still quite a ways away from you. This goes against many peoples socialization and non-confrontational manner. Carrying a weapon may help you have the confidence to do that, but it doesn't replace it. A tactical flashlight isn't going to help unless you're willing to shine it in someones face when they're 20 feet away. The same goes 10x for showing a gun.

2) If you don't want to get hassled, I think your best bet is a big dog. But I like dogs anyway.

3) If you don't want a dog, Bear spray seems like a good choice: you don't have to make a split-second decision to kill anyone, and I'm way more likely to hit a charging dog with spray than with a handgun. But again you have to have it out when they're 30 feet away and spray them at 10-15, so you'd better be prepared to manage your space. They make inert training canisters, which you'll want to buy a few of and fire off, but you'll still be in for a fraction of the cost of a handgun (or German Shepard).
Last edited by SmallSaver on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:19 am

SmallSaver wrote:Man, these threads are like catnip. Even people who should know better (me) have to weigh in. I'm always a little amazed at all the people who go straight to suggesting tools (weapons). Is the person carrying it really prepared to use it? What's you plan? When do you display the weapon, at which point the confrontation becomes a life or death situation? When do you decide to shoot? Are you prepared to make those decisions in a highly stressed situation? IMHO;

1) Self defense seems mostly about awareness and willingness to protect your personal space. You need to be ready to tell someone to eff off when they are still quite a ways away from you. This goes against many peoples socialization and non-confrontational manner. Carrying a weapon may help you have the confidence to do that, but it doesn't replace it. A tactical flashlight isn't going to help unless you're willing to shine it in someones face when they're 20 feet away. The same goes 10x for showing a gun, again at which point you're in a potentially deadly situation.

2) If you don't want to get hassled, I think your best bet is a big dog. But I like dogs anyway. Bear spray is good too, but again you have to have it out when they're 30 feet away and hit 'em at 10-15, so you'd better be prepared to manage your space, but at least you're not having to make a split second decision to take a life.
+1 for big dog. My darling German Shepherd nearly took off the hand of a guy trying to break in through a window in New Orleans in the late seventies. Get your wife a big dog. They are even more fun than guns. I bet even small dogs work.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by TimDex » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:27 am

What jumps out to me in your list is the number of committed antigun activists. This is not a list of properly conducted research, but a list of politically motivated hit jobs. D. Hemenway as a impartial analyst? Please....

Tw
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by SteveNet » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:31 am

The OP started the thread about pepper spray.
With that in mind I found this product which I just ordered for my wife in fact, we have 5 acres in the country and she worries about 'Dogs' and or coyotes which do wander thru.
What I like about it is you can fire from 25' away, it has a large canister for its size which means more pressure.
It has a thumb safety and a light as well, when the safety is on pull the trigger for the light.
When the safety is off you pull the trigger a bit to get the light to come on, then pull harder to engage the pepper spray.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00383 ... UTF8&psc=1
Image

I like it is 'gun' shaped, harder to spray one self by accident.
Easy to operate.
Can be fired quite a few times at one second bursts, and comes with a 'water' canister to practice with.
Comes in different colors including pink.
Last edited by SteveNet on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:34 am

TimDex wrote:What jumps out to me in your list is the number of committed antigun activists. This is not a list of properly conducted research, but a list of politically motivated hit jobs. D. Hemenway as a impartial analyst? Please....

Tw

Looking at the first ten in the list for examples:
Am Sociol Review
Am Econ Review
Accid Anal Prev x 2
J Community Health
WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports
J Trauma
MMWR Morbidity Mortality Weekly Report (this is by the Center for Disease Control- CDC Atlanta)
MMWR Surveillance Summary (same)
J American Medical Association

Just at first glance these appear to represent highly respected sources from multiple disciplines, including sociology, medicine, economics, public health, and trauma. I cannot prove that none of these articles are biased without reading them all...certainly out of 101 I would not doubt that a few would be.... but I wonder from where you draw this conclusion that they are "committed antigun activists". I am familiar with some of these sources and they have very strict editorial boards. Certainly nothing like The Huffington Post or Greenpeace. This is a scientifically respected meta-analysis. If you show me a similarly well-documented meta-analysis that draws an opposite conclusion I would be the first to question my "opinion", but a media study based on four uncited sources and still drawing a dubious conclusion certainly does not compare in scientific muster. (By the way, in case you are unfamiliar, references are cited in the order in which they are referenced in the article, so this is not a case of the author deliberately placing the most credible sources at the top of the list. If you doubt that, look at the bottom ten. Pediatrics, Am J Epidemiology, New England J of Medicine, Criminology, Police Foundation, etc).
Last edited by protagonist on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by MathWizard » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:41 am

Maybe you could run with her, or perhaps bike with her if running is not an option.
I'm sure she would like the company.

A potential attacker is more like to target a single person than a pair.

Many lone runners that I see have earbuds in, which limits their situational awareness.
If you run with her, she'd be more likely to talking with you rather than listing to an MP3 player,
further enhancing safety.

In the rare instances that I have had to deal with a surprise attack from someone larger than
myself, I was at an immediate disadvantage. The only viable defense was instinctive/trained defensive
reaction, and immediate retreat to a more secure area. You don't want to have your opponent
choosing the field of battle.

Note: I do run alone, but during daylight hours next to a busy street. I carry a cellphone, turned on, but not pepper spray.

I have no problem with guns, and have had several, but few weapons are effective unless they are in hand and "at the ready",
which they would not be when out running.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by deanbrew » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:48 am

MathWizard wrote: I have no problem with guns, and have had several, but few weapons are effective unless they are in hand and "at the ready",
which they would not be when out running.
I agree, and a concealed pistol would be rather heavy, cumbersome and hard to access. There are small containers of pepper spray that you can wear around a wrist, making them readily available when running or walking. Yes, a surprise attack might make one ineffective, but situational awareness and sticking to well-lit and busy routes is advised. Pepper spray might not be effective at all times on all people, but it may give precious seconds to get away.
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by PoeticalDeportment » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:22 pm

If you want to know what is good for personal protection, go find a police officer and see what they have on their belt - they have enough to carry that they have no interest in adding anything extra that is not effective.

Pepper spray is a good tool as part of a tiered defense strategy. Police often carry pepper spray - in addition to a Taser and firearm. A law enforcement officer would NEVER depend on pepper spray alone (even bear spray).

If your wife is not safe walking around the neighborhood, pepper spray won't make her much safer (and could give her a false sense of security). I agree with others who have suggested that she get her exercise with you or other friends.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by SteveNet » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:41 pm

marbles100 wrote:Pepper spray is considered a weapon and is restricted in some states, as perhaps you're already aware. It's best to check your state laws/local law enforcement about restrictions (amount/concentration, where bought, and whether you need to register with police to carry it).
A map with explanations for each state about pepper spray type protection.
Certainly do not take this as a definite legal explanation for your locality, contact local government.

But it does provide some useful info to get familiar with.

http://www.peppereyes.com/page/peppersprayregs
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by Fallible » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:58 pm

PoeticalDeportment wrote:If you want to know what is good for personal protection, go find a police officer and see what they have on their belt - they have enough to carry that they have no interest in adding anything extra that is not effective.

Pepper spray is a good tool as part of a tiered defense strategy. Police often carry pepper spray - in addition to a Taser and firearm. A law enforcement officer would NEVER depend on pepper spray alone (even bear spray).

If your wife is not safe walking around the neighborhood, pepper spray won't make her much safer (and could give her a false sense of security). I agree with others who have suggested that she get her exercise with you or other friends.
This is the conclusion I'm coming to after reading all of the posts here: the OP's wife should either walk with someone or at least walk in an area where there are lots of walkers and joggers, some of them neighbors she is at least acquainted with.

It seems that almost any type of weapon, including the pepper spray and mace, could be used against her if she is somehow disarmed by an attacker who could be younger, faster, and also have the advantage of surprise attack. As for a big dog, ideally it would prevent an attack, but if someone armed is determined to attack, they could first shoot (bullet or spray) the dog. I also think a dog would have to be specially trained to know when to attack and when (most of the time) to be just a regular dog that is safe to be around family members, friends, etc.
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:34 pm

Fallible wrote:
PoeticalDeportment wrote:If you want to know what is good for personal protection, go find a police officer and see what they have on their belt - they have enough to carry that they have no interest in adding anything extra that is not effective.

Pepper spray is a good tool as part of a tiered defense strategy. Police often carry pepper spray - in addition to a Taser and firearm. A law enforcement officer would NEVER depend on pepper spray alone (even bear spray).

If your wife is not safe walking around the neighborhood, pepper spray won't make her much safer (and could give her a false sense of security). I agree with others who have suggested that she get her exercise with you or other friends.
This is the conclusion I'm coming to after reading all of the posts here: the OP's wife should either walk with someone or at least walk in an area where there are lots of walkers and joggers, some of them neighbors she is at least acquainted with.

It seems that almost any type of weapon, including the pepper spray and mace, could be used against her if she is somehow disarmed by an attacker who could be younger, faster, and also have the advantage of surprise attack. As for a big dog, ideally it would prevent an attack, but if someone armed is determined to attack, they could first shoot (bullet or spray) the dog. I also think a dog would have to be specially trained to know when to attack and when (most of the time) to be just a regular dog that is safe to be around family members, friends, etc.
Fallible makes a LOT of sense. She should run with her husband or in a group of people. And having a big dog along certainly would only help. Fallible is a lot less fallible than she lets on.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by TimDex » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:04 pm

I've been down this road too many times debating gun confiscation and control with advocates who pretend to be unbiased and are simply trolling. Your list is extremely biased and the supposedly non biased sources are institutions dominated by left wing ideologues. Try reading people like Gary kleck and don Kates. I'll leave it at that.

And on the OT, pepper spray is not a bad idea. Tim
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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by timboktoo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:08 pm

protagonist wrote:
chaz wrote: If you don't match a gun with a gun and training with training, you don't stand a very good chance of coming out on top.
Probably also true if you do match a gun with training but never killed anybody in cold blood.

As I recall the statistics on this are rather depressing. The likelihood of you or a loved one getting killed with your gun is much higher than the likelihood of you protecting your own life with it. Yes. of course, you would be extra careful and it would never happen to you. Famous last words.
Careful with quoting. chaz did not write that.

- Tim

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by MindBogler » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:23 pm

protagonist wrote: This article summarizes the scientific literature on the health risks and benefits of having a gun in the home for the gun owner and his/her family. For most contemporary Americans, scientific studies indicate that the health risk of a gun in the home is greater than the benefit. The evidence is overwhelming for the fact that a gun in the home is a risk factor for completed suicide and that gun accidents are most likely to occur in homes with guns. There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes. On the benefit side, there are fewer studies, and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in. Thus, groups such as the American Academy of Pediatrics urge parents not to have guns in the home."
In other news, there is evidence that scrambled eggs are more likely to be consumed by homeowners who purchase eggs.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:25 pm

ruanddu wrote:Hello,

I would like to find something for my wife to carry with her when she walks around the neighborhood for protection. Do you have any recommendations on good brands/models of pepper spray or similar type product? I also heard Wasp spray can be effective due to the distance it can shoot but don't know if that's true? Thanks.
Does your wife want protection, or you think that she needs protection?

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:34 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
ruanddu wrote:Hello,

I would like to find something for my wife to carry with her when she walks around the neighborhood for protection. Do you have any recommendations on good brands/models of pepper spray or similar type product? I also heard Wasp spray can be effective due to the distance it can shoot but don't know if that's true? Thanks.
Does your wife want protection, or you think that she needs protection?

Victoria
Another good question. Plus, the simplest solutions are often overlooked. If the perception of danger of running in this neighborhood is great enough to warrant carrying a lethal weapon with its potential consequences, what about running in a safer location in broad daylight, or if that is somehow not possible, buying a treadmill or running at a gym? If it is that scary that you feel like you need a gun, it's probably not a good idea.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by protagonist » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:37 pm

timboktoo wrote:
protagonist wrote:
chaz wrote: If you don't match a gun with a gun and training with training, you don't stand a very good chance of coming out on top.
Probably also true if you do match a gun with training but never killed anybody in cold blood.

As I recall the statistics on this are rather depressing. The likelihood of you or a loved one getting killed with your gun is much higher than the likelihood of you protecting your own life with it. Yes. of course, you would be extra careful and it would never happen to you. Famous last words.
Careful with quoting. chaz did not write that.

- Tim
Correect, Tim. You wrote it. My apologies.

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by BillyG » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:40 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Does your wife want protection, or you think that she needs protection?

Victoria
Good point -- the husband should do his part and not place all the responsibility on her.

Billy

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Re: Pepper Spray the Best Option for Personal Protection?

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:52 pm

We're now getting into a gun debate, which is not the intent of this discussion. This thread has run its course and is locked. See: Forum Policy
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