Pull-ups and Push-ups

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VictoriaF
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:28 pm

LadyGeek wrote:Start with the classical approach, which is calisthetics (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, squat thrusts).
I think we have just arrived at the original post in this thread:
jazztonight wrote:My home workout is simple:
1. Pull (pull-ups)
2. Push (push-ups)
3. Core (hanging knee or leg lifts)
4. Legs (squats/lunges)
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:38 pm

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:02 pm

LadyGeek wrote:When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
We should have discussed it at BH12. I would've loved to see the things you do,

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:00 am

LadyGeek wrote:The 3 funds are running, strength, and flexibility. Exercises are the "stock" components.
I also feel that there is a strong analogy between how one manages ones finances and how one deals with the ongoing challenges of physical & health issues. I'm obviously not alone in the approach I take. And there is certainly room for variety, whether one chooses to lift weights, use Bodyweight exercises, slice and dice a portfolio or use a Target or 3 or 4 fund approach.

Personally, I prefer the Bodyweight approach because, well, wherever I go, there I am, and I don't need to find a gym, etc. After a few injuries that took too long to heal, I find that the "Pull, Push, Core, and Legs" concept works for me.

The overall theme is to do something and not injure yourself--physically or financially.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:03 am

How do you say "I do not have the potential to put on lean mass" when you never have correctly tried?
Wow. You know all my exercise routines over the last 40 years. Very impressive indeed.

Nice gross overstatement of my post as well.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by TheOscarGuy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:48 pm

Some great information in this thread! I am already reading up on all the links etc. and will incorporate a few of the body weight exercises in my daily workout.

A question to you all: if you don't have any "bars" available for doing pull ups how do you do it safely? I weigh about 190 and am strong enough to do pull ups if I can hang onto something strong. However, the one recommendation of using a towel etc. does not sound too safe to me. How about the pull up bars, are there any worthwhile brands out there?

And please stop with the 3-fund analogies. My life is boring as it is, I don't want my daily workout being explained as consisting of "core 3" :D
Last edited by TheOscarGuy on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:49 pm

Rodc wrote:
How do you say "I do not have the potential to put on lean mass" when you never have correctly tried?
Wow. You know all my exercise routines over the last 40 years. Very impressive indeed.

Nice gross overstatement of my post as well.
I wasn't even referring to you with that statement, I was speaking to the other poster who claimed that he was unable to put on mass but admittedly had never tried anything other than bodyweight exercises to do so and didn't desire it anyways. Why do you keep taking statements completely out of context? Unless my 10yrs of college education in exercise physiology, over a decade of experience in the professional strength & conditioning industry, and pretty much all EBR in the field is wrong, it is a fact that everybody (barring those with very specific medical conditions) has the potential to dramatically increase their lean mass and strength if they so desire. Very few people do what is necessary to come close to their potential.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:09 pm

Why do you keep taking statements completely out of context?
You might go back and take a look at your use of the quote function. You quote me and this the first thing you write. Who exactly am I supposed to presume you are writing to when you do that?

And at the risk of doing it again, can you provide any basis for this claim that I "keep" doing this (ie give a list of examples to show you are being accurate and precise in your language)?

If you wish people to understand you it would be good to be more careful in your writing.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Rodc wrote:
Why do you keep taking statements completely out of context?
You might go back and take a look at your use of the quote function. You quote me and this the first thing you write. Who exactly am I supposed to presume you are writing to when you do that.

And at the risk of doing it again, can you provide any basis for this claim that I "keep" doing this (ie give a list of examples to show you are being accurate and precise in your language)?

If you wish people to understand you it would be good to be more careful in your writing.
You took the exact same liberty with the words of the authors of Body by Science in your initial post:

"I guess the Body by Science guys are all wrong too as they caution that while we can all lift and gain strength the reality is most people are not going to get super strong and beefy due to simple genetics."

They are not cautioning people from lifting heavy weights as a means to increase strengh(the program is based around lifting pretty heavy weights), they are tempering expectations. Most people do not have the potential to bench press 1000lbs. like Ryan Kennelly, but everybody can become dramatically stronger. So those without the genetics of a world class powerlifter should accept it and not use proven methods to get stronger? Those without an extremely high salary should not attempt to accumulate wealth? Same flawed logic.

You are more than welcome to your opinion on the topic, just realize that no evidence-based research backs it up.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:38 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Rodc wrote:
Why do you keep taking statements completely out of context?
You might go back and take a look at your use of the quote function. You quote me and this the first thing you write. Who exactly am I supposed to presume you are writing to when you do that.

And at the risk of doing it again, can you provide any basis for this claim that I "keep" doing this (ie give a list of examples to show you are being accurate and precise in your language)?

If you wish people to understand you it would be good to be more careful in your writing.
You took the exact same liberty with the words of the authors of Body by Science in your initial post:

"I guess the Body by Science guys are all wrong too as they caution that while we can all lift and gain strength the reality is most people are not going to get super strong and beefy due to simple genetics."

They are not cautioning people from lifting heavy weights as a means to increase strengh(the program is based around lifting pretty heavy weights), they are tempering expectations. Most people do not have the potential to bench press 1000lbs. like Ryan Kennelly, but everybody can become dramatically stronger. So those without the genetics of a world class powerlifter should accept it and not use proven methods to get stronger? Those without an extremely high salary should not attempt to accumulate wealth? Same flawed logic.

You are more than welcome to your opinion on the topic, just realize that no evidence-based research backs it up.
Your reading comprehension is low today.

Of course "they are not cautioning people from lifting heavy weights as a means..." (bold added) :oops:

Slow down and reread slowly. I never said any where that unless you were world class you should quit, you just made that up out of thin air.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:16 pm

TheOscarGuy wrote:And please stop with the 3-fund analogies. My life is boring as it is, I don't want my daily workout being explained as consisting of "core 3" :D
So what would be the analogies for small-value, large-growth, puts, calls, bonds, tips, and exercise porn?

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:25 pm

As a reminder:
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Jazztonight wrote:Last year I gave up using weights, and now only do Bodyweight exercises.

My home workout is simple:
1. Pull (pull-ups)
2. Push (push-ups)
3. Core (hanging knee or leg lifts)
4. Legs (squats/lunges)

I currently do 10 sets of 8 each, with a minute rest between each set. Total workout = 30 minutes.

I don't miss the dumbbells or the gym. By the time my wife has gotten to the YMCA and started her class, I'm finished with my workout!

Anyone else out there who likes Bodyweight exercises?

(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 80 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
I think the older one gets that question has to be considered. Not to brag by any means and with ego in check, I have benched pressed 450 lbs. in competition, deadlifted near 600 lbs, seated should pressed 350 lbs. for 3 reps, and squatted close to 500 lbs. I never really trained the deadlift or squat consistently or as serious as the bench press. Almost 25 years of hitting the weights 5 days per week for an 1 - 1.5 hours. While I have no regrets, it takes a HUGE toll on your body. I often sctrach my head how the football players and wrestlers can go into their 30's and 40's and recoup, let alone make gains.

As we age it is more important to take care of our joints, etc. rather than the size of our "bicep" or how big our bench press is. For me it has also meant hitting the treadmill and taking care/trainign the heart and lungs.

I like your plan.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by leonard » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:18 pm

TheOscarGuy wrote:Some great information in this thread! I am already reading up on all the links etc. and will incorporate a few of the body weight exercises in my daily workout.

A question to you all: if you don't have any "bars" available for doing pull ups how do you do it safely? I weigh about 190 and am strong enough to do pull ups if I can hang onto something strong. However, the one recommendation of using a towel etc. does not sound too safe to me. How about the pull up bars, are there any worthwhile brands out there?

And please stop with the 3-fund analogies. My life is boring as it is, I don't want my daily workout being explained as consisting of "core 3" :D
For a pull up bar - you at least needs somewhere solid to hand it. I would check out some of the wall-ceiling mounted pull up bars. Suppliers like Rogue Fitness make stuff like this.

If pull ups are going to be a core of your workout - I highly recommend getting a bar that gives you options for V Grips, Parallel grips, and varying widths - in addition to straight bars. This will give you some variety other than just overhand and underhand. Also - thick grips provide an interesting variation too.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by RuleOf72 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:35 pm

I have never stepped foot in a gym in my life to lift weights. I used to use a Bowflex at home but I don't anymore.

Over the past two years I did P90X with dumbbells and a pullup bar but I just found having to have all these extra pieces annoying. I then moved onto Insanity (body weight exercises only).

More often than not though now I use a Kettle Bell as this gives you strength and cardio at the same time and you can push yourself farther than most body weight exercises alone. In addition, the workout is much faster than just body weight exercises.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:52 pm

leonard wrote:For a pull up bar - you at least needs somewhere solid to hand it. I would check out some of the wall-ceiling mounted pull up bars. Suppliers like Rogue Fitness make stuff like this.

If pull ups are going to be a core of your workout - I highly recommend getting a bar that gives you options for V Grips, Parallel grips, and varying widths - in addition to straight bars. This will give you some variety other than just overhand and underhand. Also - thick grips provide an interesting variation too.
Space is a concern for me, so I use a straight bar that mounts across the doorway. Anything beyond that requires more space or a certain type of door frame that will support the bar. Be sure to anchor it to the door frame (screws and mounting brackets). There are a ton of them on Amazon (Strength training pull-up bars).
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:41 pm

Pull-ups are excellent to develop the lats, widen the back, hit the rear deltoids, and indirectly the biceps. Back in the hard core days, I was strapping 75 plus pounds of plates around my waist via a belt and cranking out the reps. Talk about a burn! Tough exercise to do and tough exercise to beat.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by MP173 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:50 pm

Kettlebells are a workout, not only core but also cardio.

Based on this thread I have been moving in the direction of pushups and resistance bands. I do get bored after a few weeks and move on to something else.

Ed

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:56 pm

Always keep working out exciting as best you can. That may involve mixing things up. This is key to staying with it and seeing results.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Robert T » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:09 pm


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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:23 pm

Robert T wrote:.
Pull ups and push ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPsvF3UOdo
This guy is a Warren Buffet of the body weight exercise.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Quickfoot » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:31 pm

I prefer body weight exercises, pull ups, pull ups pushups, dips, etc. There is lower chance of injury and you don't have to spend a lot of money on equipment. I also enjoy running and was a competitive 5K runner for years. I do have a 40 pound weightvest from weightvest.com that I use for walking or just wear around the office to increase burn rate and core muscle strength.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by BHCadet » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:57 pm

I've been following this thread since the beginning.
It has inspired me to start doing pull-ups too.
I was just doing stretches, push-ups, and planks after running.
It felt good...

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:30 am

TheOscarGuy wrote:Some great information in this thread! I am already reading up on all the links etc. and will incorporate a few of the body weight exercises in my daily workout.

A question to you all: if you don't have any "bars" available for doing pull ups how do you do it safely? I weigh about 190 and am strong enough to do pull ups if I can hang onto something strong. However, the one recommendation of using a towel etc. does not sound too safe to me. How about the pull up bars, are there any worthwhile brands out there?
Lady Geek and Leonard are right--there are many options for pullup bars on Amazon and other places. I might caution that since you weigh 190, you need to be careful with bars that just hook temporarily to the sill above the door frame. I know of more than one person who came tumbling down.

That said, two stories:
In my former house, I had an area where the joists were exposed in a utility basement-like room. I drilled 2 holes through the joists, bought a thick broomstick and some line that could support 300 lbs., and fashioned a great pullup bar for myself. That's where I spent the 6 months getting to 3 sets of 10 pullups. I miss that bar since we moved 3 years ago.

In our new apt., we did a complete renovation. My wife worked with the contractor, designing a new kitchen, two bathrooms, new floors, windows, walls, doors, and ceilings. When the contractor asked me if there was anything I wanted, I said, "Yeah. Could you put a pullup bar in that corner over there?" He installed a stainless steel bar with marine/ship fittings--custom made! And the funny thing, because of the extent of the job he was doing for us, he did it gratis.

But in the end, the broomstick on a rope worked just as well!
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by eharri3 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:47 pm

I am a weights kind of guy. I'm not a monster by any means but strength training is a hobby. I like to try to stay at a level you just can't do with bodyweight calisthenics.

The OP sounds to be in decent shape with a very good routine. The only thing I think is missing is he needs to find a way to develop the muscles of his lower back as much as he is developing his abdominals. The two muscle groups must be balanced and equally developed for the long term health of the lower spine. Back problems can develop when one or the other is neglected.

On my cardio days or when I cannot make it to the gym, sometimes to spice things up I will do a quick mile and a half followed by pushups and sit-ups to failure, and then call it a day. I like the gym though for the machines and equipment that provides versatility to isolate specific muscle groups that I can't get at too easily doing stuff on my living room floor.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by lightheir » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:37 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Robert T wrote:.
Pull ups and push ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPsvF3UOdo
This guy is a Warren Buffet of the body weight exercise.

Victoria
On his bio, it says he trained with weights a lot, and still does, in fact. I suspect you have to train with weights to develop that kind of strength on the bars.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:37 am

eharri3 wrote:The OP sounds to be in decent shape with a very good routine. The only thing I think is missing is he needs to find a way to develop the muscles of his lower back as much as he is developing his abdominals. The two muscle groups must be balanced and equally developed for the long term health of the lower spine. Back problems can develop when one or the other is neglected.
I'm the OP and you are right! This has been recommended to me now by several people in the last few days.

A yoga-type exercise known as the "bird dog" was suggested.
Another recommended exercise is known as "superman." I've done this before and will begin to incorporate it again.

What else should I consider adding for my back?
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sammy_M » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:25 am

Jazztonight wrote:What else should I consider adding for my back?
As far as limited equipment exercises, supermans are indeed very good to target the lower back. Hanging leg raises, bringing toes all the way to the bar and back down in a slow and controlled manner, work both abdominal and lower back muscles. Also any type of core stabilization exercise (e.g., planks) work both front and back.
Robert T wrote:.
Pull ups and push ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPsvF3UOdo
That's incredible! The core strength required to balance in and thru all those positions is what is most impressive to me. When I was in college I did a few assisted keg stands like that (2:52) :)

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by max12377 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:37 am

I might add one thing to this thread that has helped me. Pullups and Pushups can be hard for those starting out. It is important to compete 'with yourself'. This will help psychologically. If you can do only 1 pullup, write it down. Next time, try for 2. If you can still only do 1, so what?! No one is watching other than you. Try again the next time for 2. The important piece is that you keep to a regualar routine. Don't worry too much about the counts. That will improve over time. And then celebrate when you hit, say 5 pullups. Reward yourself. Then keep going. It's a simple concept, but it has kept me from giving up.

I say this because I used to push myself HARD at the gym and inevitably would end up injured at some point. I'd try to go too far too fast. For many of us, ego can actually deter progress. Slow and steady will win the race.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:32 am

Two excellent ways to increase your pull-ups:

1). Have someone assist you up for a couple of forced reps when you can no longer complete a rep by yourself.

2). Lat pulldowns will build excellent strength.

Always do pull-ups to the front - never behind. HUGE stress on shoulders and rotator cuffs with ZERO additional benefit.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:58 am

abuss368 wrote:2). Lat pulldowns will build excellent strength.

Always do pull-ups to the front - never behind. HUGE stress on shoulders and rotator cuffs with ZERO additional benefit.
Good point. I was going to suggest that a pull-up from behind was almost the same as a lat pulldown. Your reasoning makes sense, thanks.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by GraceM » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:34 am

What would be the female equivalent of the body weight exercises? As a female, I don't want to gain muscle mass, just to get fitter, which includes removing slobby arm fat, tummy etc.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 4stripes » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:36 pm

GraceM wrote:What would be the female equivalent of the body weight exercises? As a female, I don't want to gain muscle mass, just to get fitter, which includes removing slobby arm fat, tummy etc.
The alternative to body weight exercise I think would have to be nothing at all...

Your sentiment is unfortunately common among women. No one can gain mass doing just body weight and no woman easily gains mass doing anything because women do not have enough testosterone, the strength building hormone, to do so. Facts of life! Everyone should happily train for strength without worry of such concerns.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by reggiesimpson » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:52 pm

GraceM wrote:What would be the female equivalent of the body weight exercises? As a female, I don't want to gain muscle mass, just to get fitter, which includes removing slobby arm fat, tummy etc.

Have to agree with above poster. Light weight lifting is imperative to at least maintain muscle mass as one ages. Gotta keep those legs strong so you can get around!

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:40 pm

Consider wide grip to the front pull-ups to build the overall back, rear deltoids, and biceps. This will help develop a "V" taper and widen the back.

The only other good pull-up grip is palms facing you with a closer grip. This hits more of the inner lat right under the armpit area and also focuses on the bicep more. Alternating grips in a workout or different workouts provides excellent results.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:31 pm

max12377 wrote:I might add one thing to this thread that has helped me. Pullups and Pushups can be hard for those starting out. It is important to compete 'with yourself'. This will help psychologically. If you can do only 1 pullup, write it down. Next time, try for 2. If you can still only do 1, so what?! No one is watching other than you. Try again the next time for 2. The important piece is that you keep to a regualar routine. Don't worry too much about the counts. That will improve over time. And then celebrate when you hit, say 5 pullups. Reward yourself. Then keep going. It's a simple concept, but it has kept me from giving up.

I say this because I used to push myself HARD at the gym and inevitably would end up injured at some point. I'd try to go too far too fast. For many of us, ego can actually deter progress. Slow and steady will win the race.
I agree. What difference does it make that it took me 6 months to get to 10 pull-ups? None whatsoever. It was slow, methodical, challenging, and satisfying.

If you push too hard, you injure yourself, which is, sadly, too common.

And once again, one does not always need to shoot for the moon. Just because one can do X reps does not mean that X+10 is either necessary or better. I have to always remind myself of that.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:42 pm

I always try for X+1, though. Half the battle is motivation, a.k.a. emotional intensity. If you can't make your goal, then at least try - that's what counts.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:43 pm

GraceM wrote:What would be the female equivalent of the body weight exercises? As a female, I don't want to gain muscle mass, just to get fitter, which includes removing slobby arm fat, tummy etc.
Several of the posters have spoken to this issue. I've known women in their 60s, including my DW, who have successfully toned up, lost excess weight, and look better than ever. There is a woman's version of "You Are Your Own Gym"
http://www.amazon.com/Body-You-Guide-Wo ... pd_sim_b_2
But the original book works for both genders.

Just remember that it's impossible to "spot lose" weight/fat from a particular target area. Don't buy into that myth.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:44 pm

LadyGeek wrote:I always try for X+1, though. Half the battle is motivation, a.k.a. emotional intensity. If you can't make your goal, then at least try - that's what counts.
Well, yeah, if I were 25 years old like you are... 8-)
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by lightheir » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:26 pm

LadyGeek wrote:I always try for X+1, though. Half the battle is motivation, a.k.a. emotional intensity. If you can't make your goal, then at least try - that's what counts.
I used to play a lot of competitive sports (lots of weight training for them) and now am a competitive triathlete (much less weight training.)

If you're not genetically born with the gift of strength, most casual exercises hugely underestimate how much training it will take them to significantly improve. For example, I had to work out every single day, lifting weights for minimum 1 hr per day and usually closer to 2 (in addition to whatever sports I was playing) to get my pullups from zero to 15, and it was very, very slow going, like 2-3 pullups per YEAR of improvement after the first 3, and even then, usually after some hard targeted lat-focused block of lifting that I wouldn't be able to maintain long-term. Before my competitive sports days, I'd wonder why adding 1 pushup every week didn't seem to get me any stronger, and same with pullups. Now I know why - the amt of training required was huge for me to improve.

But on the bright side, if you work hard for many years, you do establish a new, much higher baseline, and people quite easily forget how lousy an athlete you were before you trained. All my friends have this bizarre memory of my youth as some athlete guy when the reality was that I was a total non-athlete and picked last in class for most sports until nearly finishing high school.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 3Wood85 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:41 am

I had a injury related to push ups this past weekend.

I used to do push ups all the time a couple years ago. Whenever I watched a football or basketball game at home, I would drop down and do 20 or so push-ups during commercials. I would do 300 - 400 push-ups per game. Fast forward to now, I dont really do push ups anymore because I belong to a gym so I do bench presses, flies etc.

Well this weekend I decide to do some push-ups, I only did 3 sets of 50 reps.

Now I have this pain on the triceps near the elbow, I could feel the tension as I was doing the push-ups, and it got worse as I continued to do more and more. Has anyone had this type of injury?

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm

3Wood85 wrote:I had a injury related to push ups this past weekend.

I used to do push ups all the time a couple years ago. Whenever I watched a football or basketball game at home, I would drop down and do 20 or so push-ups during commercials. I would do 300 - 400 push-ups per game. Fast forward to now, I dont really do push ups anymore because I belong to a gym so I do bench presses, flies etc.

Well this weekend I decide to do some push-ups, I only did 3 sets of 50 reps.

Now I have this pain on the triceps near the elbow, I could feel the tension as I was doing the push-ups, and it got worse as I continued to do more and more. Has anyone had this type of injury?
This happens with bench pressing or shoulder pressing as well. Tendonitis or possible a strain/tear. Stop the push-ups and benching/shoulder/tripcep work for a week or more and ice the elbow/area a lot. I also used to do a lot of stretching. Try to force your way through it, and if it rips, hello surgery and a long rehab.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 4stripes » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:57 pm

3Wood85 wrote:I had a injury related to push ups this past weekend. Well this weekend I decide to do some push-ups, I only did 3 sets of 50 reps.
If one is older than 25, I think doing more than 20 of anything is unwise. You have a tendinitis/overuse injury that you'll have to wait out. And 3 sets of 50 reps? I'm suspecting they were not true chest-to-floor--another easy way to overuse--not doing the full, more difficult movement.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 3Wood85 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:20 pm

4stripes wrote:
3Wood85 wrote:I had a injury related to push ups this past weekend. Well this weekend I decide to do some push-ups, I only did 3 sets of 50 reps.
If one is older than 25, I think doing more than 20 of anything is unwise. You have a tendinitis/overuse injury that you'll have to wait out. And 3 sets of 50 reps? I'm suspecting they were not true chest-to-floor--another easy way to overuse--not doing the full, more difficult movement.

I am 25, and they were full form push ups. I will just take it easy for a week or two.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:37 pm

abuss368 wrote:Consider wide grip to the front pull-ups to build the overall back, rear deltoids, and biceps. This will help develop a "V" taper and widen the back.

The only other good pull-up grip is palms facing you with a closer grip. This hits more of the inner lat right under the armpit area and also focuses on the bicep more. Alternating grips in a workout or different workouts provides excellent results.
Thanks. I tried the wide grip pull-up and can definitely feel the difference; I'll start paying attention to the grip now.

I also found a limitation of using a chin-up bar mounted in a door frame. The wide stance grip puts my hands at the edge of the bar against the frame. For those considering to install a chin-up bar (especially guys), you won't be able to do the wide stance grip - there's not enough room to spread your reach out.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by abuss368 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:25 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
abuss368 wrote:Consider wide grip to the front pull-ups to build the overall back, rear deltoids, and biceps. This will help develop a "V" taper and widen the back.

The only other good pull-up grip is palms facing you with a closer grip. This hits more of the inner lat right under the armpit area and also focuses on the bicep more. Alternating grips in a workout or different workouts provides excellent results.
Thanks. I tried the wide grip pull-up and can definitely feel the difference; I'll start paying attention to the grip now.

I also found a limitation of using a chin-up bar mounted in a door frame. The wide stance grip puts my hands at the edge of the bar against the frame. For those considering to install a chin-up bar (especially guys), you won't be able to do the wide stance grip - there's not enough room to spread your reach out.
One alternative around this: get four very strong hooks and put them in the basement beams/ceiling. Attach your barbell to it as needed. Did this in my parents house years ago. You can use the wide grip and the close reverse grip with no problem.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by lightheir » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:38 am

4stripes wrote:
3Wood85 wrote:I had a injury related to push ups this past weekend. Well this weekend I decide to do some push-ups, I only did 3 sets of 50 reps.
If one is older than 25, I think doing more than 20 of anything is unwise. You have a tendinitis/overuse injury that you'll have to wait out. And 3 sets of 50 reps? I'm suspecting they were not true chest-to-floor--another easy way to overuse--not doing the full, more difficult movement.
Disagree.

Yes, older folks have to be more careful , and if coming 'off the couch', a LOT more careful with both starting and increasing exercise volume.

But there's no evidence showing that it's detrimental for older folks to engage in weights or enduran ce activities requiring significant effort, as long as they're building it slowly and incrementally.

Just look at the number of senior master competitors in most sports, and you'll find an incredible range of hi-level performers past the age of 55 in most majors sports whom are extremely healthy and fit. In fact, it is likely very advantageous for older folks to participate in more than trivial exercise to fend off sarcopenia and the other physical effects of aging to improve quality of life.

As well, doing 20+ reps is likely the way to go for older individuals. Lower weight - high rep exercises, reduce the change of a tendon tear or frank tendonitis compared to a hi-weight-low rep exercise. It's terrible advice to ask a off the couch person to go do a max single benchpress due to high risk of injury and strain, but it's perfectly fine to see if they can do a lot of assisted pushups (like with knees bent supporting weight on the floor) until they can move up to higher weighted actions.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 4stripes » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:43 am

lightheir wrote:But there's no evidence showing that it's detrimental for older folks to engage in weights or endurance activities requiring significant effort, as long as they're building it slowly and incrementally.
If one can do something for hours (running), or more than 25 (extremely light weights), then by definition it cannot be very hard from a strength perspective, which is amount of force against an object.
Just look at the number of senior master competitors in most sports, and you'll find an incredible range of hi-level performers past the age of 55 in most majors sports whom are extremely healthy and fit.
I did not say that masters cannot compete in athletics. My father is a regional competitive mountain, road, and cross cyclist in his 60s. But are 50 pushups going to do anything beyond getting one to 'feel a bit gassed,' 'get the pump,' and sore the next day? That's not training or fitness, that's random exercise, which may be entertaining, but isn't methodical or useful, and is injury prone. Exercise is about how you feel now and tomorrow, but it's not for real long term goals and improvement. And if an athlete does 'train' like that and win, it is genetics in spite of training.

I'd rather see 8 hard bench presses than 50 pushups any day. One looks like training, the other is goofing off. Exercise in this way does not respect the General Adaptation Syndrome, the primary model for periodization in training. By GAS's reckoning, the user was not adapted for 150 pushups (they had not trained them progressively over time), the stressor exceeded what was recoverable, therefore injury and lack of progress. I suggest the book Practical Programming as an informative read on General Adaptation as it applies to training for sports.
As well, doing 20+ reps is likely the way to go for older individuals. Lower weight - high rep exercises, reduce the change of a tendon tear or frank tendonitis compared to a hi-weight-low rep exercise. It's terrible advice to ask a off the couch person to go do a max single benchpress due to high risk of injury and strain, but it's perfectly fine to see if they can do a lot of assisted pushups (like with knees bent supporting weight on the floor) until they can move up to higher weighted actions.
This is anecdotal. I can just as simply say it makes quite a bit of sense to me that an older individual's joints/ligaments/cartilage are the weak links--not as limber as they used to be. Doing many light weights puts more repetitive strain on a joint than 5 heavy squats. How many exercisers are injured most of the time? It's practically a badge of honor for those that are ignorant of the General Adaptation approach to training. It's confirmation that they 'did something hard' and 'pushed their body to the limits' and now they get to 'rest and recover' through the injury. Unfortunately, they're fooling themselves.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by lightheir » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:18 am

No, my statements about more reps/low rep for older folks is not anecdotal. 5 heavy squats at a strong effort is the WORST thing you could recommend to an older or off-the-couch person who is new to them, if you're loading them heavily. (And I, as most weightlifters, think squats are one of the best all-around strength exercises out there - but they're hard and a big stress on the body - far, far more than doing 50 assisted unweighted squats, even if to failure.) Repetitive injuries from endurance type motions take hundreds or thousands of motions in a single setting, not 20 or even 100. (Runner steps & cycling steps are never 100 - always 1000+, and to get repetitive injury, think 10-100x that at minimum)



50 pushups as well, is clearly NOT wasting your time. It only could be possibly considerd such if you were aiming for a max lift benchpress (1rep) effort in competition, in which case you should be targeting low rep/high weight efforts specifically. But 50 pushups in fact does train strength ANd endurance (less on the strength component), and because the peak force/power is much less than a 1 rep max, your odds of tearing/straining a muscle are much lower.





Ask any sports coach or physical therapist which will do more damage or potential damage to a ligament or muscle - a 3-rep max vs a 20 rep or 50 rep max effort. Due to the max loading of those high weight/low reps, the damage or risk of damage is much more significant.
Last edited by lightheir on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by protagonist » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:06 am

lightheir wrote:No, my statements about more reps/low rep for older folks is not anecdotal. 5 heavy squats at a strong effort is the WORST thing you could recommend to an older or off-the-couch person who is new to them, if you're loading them heavily. (And I, as most weightlifters, think squats are one of the best all-around strength exercises out there - but they're hard and a big stress on the body - far, far more than doing 50 assisted unweighted squats, even if to failure.) Repetitive injuries from endurance type motions take tens, if not hundreds of thousands of motions in a single setting, not 20 or even 100. (Runner steps & cycling steps are never 100 - always 1000+, and to get repetitive injury, think 10-100x that at minimum)



50 pushups as well, is clearly NOT wasting your time. It only could be possibly considerd such if you were aiming for a max lift benchpress (1rep) effort in competition, in which case you should be targeting low rep/high weight efforts specifically. But 50 pushups in fact does train strength ANd endurance (less on the strength component), and because the peak force/power is much less than a 1 rep max, your odds of tearing/straining a muscle are much lower.





Ask any sports coach or physical therapist which will do more damage or potential damage to a ligament or muscle - a 3-rep max vs a 20 rep or 50 rep max effort. Due to the max loading of those high weight/low reps, the damage or risk of damage is much more significant.
This is good information. I never thought of push-ups as more of an endurance than a strength exercise. I imagine the same would thus be true for ab crunches? Although I tend to do them against resistance. What do you consider a good exercise for tightening abs?

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