Windows XP users

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EternalOptimist
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Windows XP users

Post by EternalOptimist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:18 am

Windows announced that it is pulling support for XP next year, what are you going to do, if anything?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... pport-help
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pinebarrens1
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by pinebarrens1 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:21 am

good question. My windows xp computer still fast and smooth as when I bought it years ago. I hope they extend it a few more years

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by tomd37 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:22 am

Going to step up to either Windows 7 or 8. Don't like the touch screen attributes of 8 though.
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jlawrence01 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:29 am

I cannot say that I had a lot of problems with Windows XP. However, as my computer reached five years old, it would take about ten minutes to start up.

Windows 7 has been excellent. After three years, it is still working as fast as ever.

Sidney
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Sidney » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:31 am

Only one XP system left in the house. Will either retire and replace or load Linux.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jchef » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:39 am

pinebarrens1 wrote:I hope they extend it a few more years
That's highly unlikely. Microsoft has been quite clear there will be no more extensions. And apparently they have promised their employees they won't be backing down, as many employees are getting quite tired of supporting such an old product (it was released in 2001).

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greg24
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by greg24 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:48 am

I'll have a secondary machine continue to run XP. All the lack of support really means is they won't release patches for the OS. I run ccleaner, malwarebytes and other scans on a regular basis and I"ll be fine.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by mhc » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:48 am

I have a 10 year old XP machine that my kids use. I will do nothing and continue to let my kids use it.

I bought a new Windows 8 machine last Christmas and hate it. I will investigate Windows 8.1 when it comes out. If it looks reasonable, I might get rid of my XP machine and old Imac and replace them with identical 8.1 all-in-one machines.

I still prefer Windows 7.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by nisiprius » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:48 am

EternalOptimist wrote:Windows announced that it is pulling support for XP next year, what are you going to do, if anything?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... pport-help
Wait for them to postpone the date. Again.
jchef wrote:...Microsoft has been quite clear there will be no more extensions. And apparently they have promised their employees they won't be backing down, as many employees are getting quite tired of supporting such an old product (it was released in 2001)...
They were quite clear every other time, too.

Now, of course, Microsoft certainly could choose to abandon the only really well-liked, finished bit of work they've done since Windows 95, but I think they're playing chicken, and when it becomes clear that there is still demand for XP among corporate clients they will back down. Again. And I think there will still be demand for XP because I don't think Microsoft has provided a good alternative. They can force people to migrate from Windows XP, but Windows no longer has the aura of inevitability it once had. Given the cost and difficulties involved in migrating from Windows XP to Windows 8, there is a real danger that when people will migrate from Windows XP it will not be to Windows 8.

They've even got a face-saving way to do it: the new CEO can say that pulling support for it was Ballmer's idea and that he doesn't agree with it. And he can unveil a revolutionary all-new-from-the-ground-up OS with less than 50 million lines of code in common with XP. Totally new, yet with no higher system requirements than XP. In order to emphasize its total newness, they would of course not name it XP SP5, but Windows Chi-Rho. With an option to upgrade from XP for just $69.95, or from Windows 8 for just $89.95. Windows Chi-Rho offers a completely fresh set of screen colors that take full advantage of modern 24-bit display adapters; an exciting, contemporary looking default font; and blazing performance, fully 78% faster by actual test on an 4th-Gen Intel Core i7 compared to Windows XP running on an Intel Pentium.
Last edited by nisiprius on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by tomd37 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:52 am

jlawrence,

You describe the same thing that my wife is experiencing on her six year old laptop; extremely slow startup these days. My desktop is fine on startup compared with hers. I am an older gent and have extremely limited knowledge of computer operations.
Tom D.

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LAlearning
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by LAlearning » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:09 am

For people who want to keep their XP systems running, consider upgrading your hard drive to a Solid State Drive (SSD). Your computing experience will be well rewarded.
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by EternalOptimist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:09 am

tomd37 wrote:jlawrence,

You describe the same thing that my wife is experiencing on her six year old laptop; extremely slow startup these days. My desktop is fine on startup compared with hers. I am an older gent and have extremely limited knowledge of computer operations.

I'm not an expert but there are several rather easy things you can do to speed up the start-up. Do a search on "PC is slow in starting". I did and it improved. Good luck.
"When nothing goes right....go left"

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Novine » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:36 am

Windows XP was a solid OS. But Windows 7 is far better in almost every regard. I don't know of anyone who went to 7 who wanted to go back to XP.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jchef » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:43 am

nisiprius wrote: Now, of course, Microsoft certainly could choose to abandon the only really well-liked, finished bit of work they've done since Windows 95, but I think they're playing chicken, and when it becomes clear that there is still demand for XP among corporate clients they will back down. Again. And I think there will still be demand for XP because I don't think Microsoft has provided a good alternative.
I'd say Windows 7 went over quite well. And there's not much of a learning curve for people coming from XP. And if you install a start menu in Windows 8 and boot directly to the desktop, there won't be too much of a learning curve from XP.


And he can unveil a revolutionary all-new-from-the-ground-up OS with less than 50 million lines of code in common with XP. Totally new, yet with no higher system requirements than XP.
The code is old. It doesn't support new hardware easily and it also doesn't support newer software frameworks.

There is very little new software that works on XP. And the older software that does work on it is holding parts of the industry back. Web developers (and Microsoft) very much would like the older versions of IE to go away, so they can develop more complex web pages. And they would also like the old versions of Office to go away, so they can make the new Office file format the default standard.


If Microsoft wants to make more sales, it needs to create reasons for people to buy new computers. More complex web pages is one possible way to do that. But that can't happen until the older versions of IE are dead.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by technovelist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:50 am

Concur on moving to Windows 7. That will be around for quite a few more years, and is solid and easy to migrate to from XP.
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by cjking » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:59 am

I have a netbook running XP. I tried to upgrade it to Windows 8 when it that was available at the low introductory price, but Windows 8 rejected the netbook on the basis that the screen resolution wasn't high enough to meet the standards required by Windows apps.

I will probably just leave it on XP indefinitely. It is only used for web access while I'm on holiday.

My main PC is windows 8. I'm somewhat annoyed with that, as my fairly modern and popular HP laser printer is still not working reliably with Windows 8. Also, for the first time, Quicken 2000 is not working perfectly, issues to do with repainting the screen that are apparently something to do with the removal of Aero. Both printer and Quicken 2000 work perfectly with every version of Windows from 2000 through to 7, it's just 8 that is a problem.

The second PC on the house is stuck on Vista. Tried to upgrade it to 8 at the introductory price, but 8 rejected it because the processor lacks one or two memory management instructions that Windows 8 apparently now uses. Was unable to install Skydrive on Vista because of the same instruction set issue. Having a Vista PC still around is a constant reminder of how much better-looking the Windows interface was before 8.

If I could get Windows 7 at the price Windows 8 was introduced at, I would upgrade the XP and Vista computers to that.
Last edited by cjking on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Valuethinker » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:17 pm

nisiprius wrote:
EternalOptimist wrote:Windows announced that it is pulling support for XP next year, what are you going to do, if anything?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... pport-help
Wait for them to postpone the date. Again.
jchef wrote:...Microsoft has been quite clear there will be no more extensions. And apparently they have promised their employees they won't be backing down, as many employees are getting quite tired of supporting such an old product (it was released in 2001)...
They were quite clear every other time, too.

Now, of course, Microsoft certainly could choose to abandon the only really well-liked, finished bit of work they've done since Windows 95, but I think they're playing chicken, and when it becomes clear that there is still demand for XP among corporate clients they will back down. Again. And I think there will still be demand for XP because I don't think Microsoft has provided a good alternative. They can force people to migrate from Windows XP, but Windows no longer has the aura of inevitability it once had. Given the cost and difficulties involved in migrating from Windows XP to Windows 8, there is a real danger that when people will migrate from Windows XP it will not be to Windows 8.

They've even got a face-saving way to do it: the new CEO can say that pulling support for it was Ballmer's idea and that he doesn't agree with it. And he can unveil a revolutionary all-new-from-the-ground-up OS with less than 50 million lines of code in common with XP. Totally new, yet with no higher system requirements than XP. In order to emphasize its total newness, they would of course not name it XP SP5, but Windows Chi-Rho. With an option to upgrade from XP for just $69.95, or from Windows 8 for just $89.95. Windows Chi-Rho offers a completely fresh set of screen colors that take full advantage of modern 24-bit display adapters; an exciting, contemporary looking default font; and blazing performance, fully 78% faster by actual test on an 4th-Gen Intel Core i7 compared to Windows XP running on an Intel Pentium.
Nisi

Once I made the switch to Win7, I'd never want to go back. It is better than Win XP in a lot of ways.

I think that is a fairly universal response.

Win8? Blechh? Change a familiar user interface for what gain?

I am constantly reminded of the old IBM PC keyboard, the one with the tiny enter/ return button, and how IBM engineers kept telling us that 'it's better. It makes you a better typist'. In the end, they gave up trying. That's how I feel about the Win8 GUI.

Ironically I switched to mozilla Firefox because it was *more* like the old Internet Explorer than the new IE was like its predecessor (this was around V 5). The same might happen with me Windows and the Mac.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Valuethinker » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:17 pm

technovelist wrote:Concur on moving to Windows 7. That will be around for quite a few more years, and is solid and easy to migrate to from XP.
+1 even if you have to upgrade hardware.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by cjking » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:41 pm

And while I'm complaining about Windows 8, since it's just happened again, one more thing. Windows 8 randomly locks me out for several minutes, sometimes for up to 20 minutes, while it "does things", usually running it's anti-virus software, or automatically installing updates. It's not frozen, it just has more important things to do than interact with its owner. Windows 7 on the same hardware with the same settings never did this.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by gkaplan » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:09 pm

I'm using Windows XP on my fifteen-year old computer. I'm planning to buy a new computer early next year. I'm hoping I can get it with Microsoft Explorer 7 and not be forced to use Microsoft Explorer 8.
Gordon

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by 4stripes » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:10 pm

I hung on to XP for a long time, to 2012. Windows 7 is significantly better, I would switch as soon as possible. Set it up with Windows Classic look and turn off Aero and you won't be able to tell a difference, other than being able to find things with search!

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Sidney » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:51 pm

gkaplan wrote:I'm using Windows XP on my fifteen-year old computer. I'm planning to buy a new computer early next year. I'm hoping I can get it with Microsoft Explorer 7 and not be forced to use Microsoft Explorer 8.
I assume you mean Windows, not Explorer. Just buy a bare machine (no OS) and buy a copy of Windows 7. This has the added advantage of keeping all the OEM supplied "crap-ware" off the box.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

ourbrooks
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by ourbrooks » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:45 pm

The reason Windows XP has been supported by Microsoft as long as it has is because there are large corporate customers who have constructed custom software which requires Windows XP and are paying Microsoft to keep XP alive. These large corporate, PAYING customers can, of course, keep XP alive as long as they want to.

I don't think personal users, who aren't paying annual support, provide much of a motivation for Microsoft to continue XP support. The people who like XP are people who like stability and don't like change. It's hard to envision them installing Linux or buying new Macs. How much revenue would Microsoft lose from these customers if they dropped XP support?

One suggestion is to experiment with Linux/Ubuntu before making up your mind. You don't have to replace your XP machine. One option is just to install VMWare player on your Windows XP box and run Linux in a virtual machine. The other is to burn Ubuntu to a CD and boot off of the CD. If you decide you like Linux/Ubuntu better than Windows N, you can buy a Windows N box and install Linux/Ubuntu in place of Windows N.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by soaring » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:39 pm

tomd37 wrote:jlawrence,

You describe the same thing that my wife is experiencing on her six year old laptop; extremely slow startup these days. My desktop is fine on startup compared with hers. I am an older gent and have extremely limited knowledge of computer operations.
This link will tell you how to defrag the XP hard drive which if isn't being done routinely will certainly help improve speed. At this link also a window will open providing you with guidance for other routine maintenance needed to be performed to keep winXP fast and up to date.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314848
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by ieee488 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:11 pm

Besides defraging, disable programs that automatically run at startup.
http://www.wikihow.com/Alter-Startup-Pr ... Windows-XP
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by aja8888 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:18 pm

We are running very smooth versions of XP on two home computers using the 2 GB max RAM Windows XP allows, along with the correct software suites and tools. Have been for 7 + years I would imagine.

I had a Win 7 laptop for work that was pretty similar to XP in a lot of ways. It crapped out and the job gave me a new laptop with Win 8 on it (it $uck$) It's desktop is nothing more than links to buy subscriptions for various services, etc. So I dumped all of those and installed a WIn7 shell for the desktop. Then I dumped McAfee and re-activated (enabled) Windows Defender to take its place and relieve the processor of the "McAfee 50% duty cycle". All is good now. Fast, zippy and 2% processor use at idle.

I guess McAfee pays MS to have their bloatware installed on the machines and requires MS to set Defender silent (disabled mode). Now why would MS do that when they (MS) paid so much to acquire the company that originally developed the Defender suite?

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.....

Post by pinecrest » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:29 pm

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Last edited by pinecrest on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jchef » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:00 pm

The problem of relying on antivirus, anti-malware and other utilities is that they don't actually patch the hole.

If there is a serious security hole found, the utilities can try to clean up the mess after the malware gets in, but the hole is going to remain. You should expect repeated attacks through the hole and the malware is likely to get smarter. Eventually there is a very real chance the malware will be able to evade or disable your protections.


Safe surfing and using well known software can only get you so far security wise. If there is a major security hole, they may be able to get access to your computer without you doing anything wrong.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by EternalOptimist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:10 pm

Are Windows 7 downloads free?
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jchef
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jchef » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:14 pm

EternalOptimist wrote:Are Windows 7 downloads free?
You really are an optimist. :D

You either need to buy a computer that already has it installed or pay for it.


Edit: Microsoft has a program which can tell you if your computer is powerful enough to run Windows 7. If your computer is old, you may want to consider getting a new one. Or as mentioned above, trying out Linux.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wind ... de-advisor

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by nisiprius » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:58 pm

Just a brief note to those urging me to upgrade to Windows XP: I didn't mention the reason I'm using Windows XP, which is that the company I'm consulting for relies on a good handful of Windows XP applications which do not, as it happens, run properly under Windows 7. There are many reasons, both good and bad, why they do not, but among the good reasons is that the interface to various specialized research devices (e.g. various optical measurement instruments sold by Newport Instruments), and these in turn rely on specialized drivers and DLLs and libraries, many of which do not work with Windows 7. (In the research world, a lot of these drivers and such are the product of almost-cottage-industry developers). You may think this sounds rinky-dink, but it is what it is. And from what I've read, the problem of "in-house Windows applications that are essential and don't work under Windows 7" is not all that unique. Even little things like Windows XP using IPv6 by default, or changing the locations of various standard directories, can be a problem. You can say "Well, those applications were not well written," and my answer is that in the real world lots of real things rely on applications that are not well written.

What I mean to say is, Windows NT is not VAX/VMS, and the difference is not so much the underlying technology as it is the absence of twenty or thirty thick China red ring binders full of accurate documentation. I once wasted a full day trying to figure out why my code, which used 16-bit grey-scale graphics wasn't working. It turned out that Windows had never actually implemented that graphics mode, but that nobody had ever bothered to remove the documentation, or the help text, or the code examples showing how to use it. In the greater Windows community, the knowledge that it wasn't implemented was well known, disseminated by word of mouth, handed down from master to apprentice...
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Toons » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:12 pm

Still have one xp computer around the house that I use for a server,plan to keep on using it,no need for Microsoft support ,keep avast antivirus ,malwarebytes on it.Win 7 desktop is my main computer which I find myself using less and less,most of time I use either Samsung Chromebook,Nexus 7 tablet or Android phone.If Intuit ever comes out with a Quicken Android App I may not need to turn on the PC.Don't have any plans of buying another PC laptop or desktop(The PC era is bygone) :happy
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alanwbaker
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by alanwbaker » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:53 pm

If you seriously plan to use a computer with XP after April 8, 2014, plan to isolate it from the net. Otherwise, vulnerabilities that remain unpatched on XP will be exploited by cybercriminals and your computer will become infected with malware. As jchef noted, no antivirus program or scanner will prevent this.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Barrymer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm also using Win XP on an a Dell Dimension 4700. It's running okay, but I want a bigger, sharper screen and an SSD and it just doesn't make sense to invest in an 8 year old machine. Windows 8 is ugly and comes with a learning curve. So if I were to get another windows machine it would be with Win 7 which is itself 4 years old. So I'm considering getting an iMac. I already have a Macbook Air for travel so the learning curve would probably be less than moving to Win 8. The iMac screens are magnificent, there are less malware issues, it's available with SSD storage now and I could get rid of the rat's nest of wires behind my desk. I hate Apple's membrane keyboards, but there are third party mechanical keyboards available for the Mac. So perhaps moving to a Mac might be the best way to go. Is anyone else thinking along these lines or has anyone else made the switch to Mac and if so, are you happy with your choice?

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by patrick » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:54 pm

I suspect some of the risks are overblown. Many OS security holes don't matter to normal home users -- if you are behind a NAT the attackers can't connect to your PC from outside, and if there is only one user (or you trust all the other users) you don't care about local privilege elevation. More likely ways for a home user to be attacked are by fooling you into downloading and running the malware and clicking through the security warning before running it, or by exploiting security holes in application software like document viewers, web browsers, or web browser plugins that are used to view content from the Internet. These types of attacks don't care if your OS is patched.

Since the end of XP updates means the end of Internet Explorer updates, it would be essential for an XP user to switch to another web browser. I don't think it's a disaster until Firefox and Chrome also stop being updated on XP. Even legitimate web sites could attack you because the badguys used stolen credit card numbers to purchase ad space on them. Of course bogleheads.org is exempt. :happy

Edited to add: Which is not to say that I recommend sticking with XP -- I don't. By the way, if you really want an XP-like system that will get patches a while longer, you could switch to Windows Server 2003 :wink: It will get patches until the middle of 2015. That isn't my recommended solution either. I already use Windows 7.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by yosh99 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:30 pm

There are many reasons, both good and bad, why they do not, but among the good reasons is that the interface to various specialized research devices (e.g. various optical measurement instruments sold by Newport Instruments), and these in turn rely on specialized drivers and DLLs and libraries, many of which do not work with Windows 7. (In the research world, a lot of these drivers and such are the product of almost-cottage-industry developers).


This is our problem. We have lots of lab equipment being run by XP based applications and it seems like very change we are forced to make screws something up and takes hours to fix. When we get a new PC with Windows 7 and get something to work with it we find it's filled with software that updates itself daily and that causes problems. So we take it off the network and that's inconvenient. Our solution is to buy old PC's when we can because they have serial ports and come with XP. Then we cross our fingers and hope nothing goes wrong. After all these years, how can computing technology be so bad?

For all personal and office work we use Macs and never have problems.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by ieee488 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:08 pm

yosh99 wrote:
There are many reasons, both good and bad, why they do not, but among the good reasons is that the interface to various specialized research devices (e.g. various optical measurement instruments sold by Newport Instruments), and these in turn rely on specialized drivers and DLLs and libraries, many of which do not work with Windows 7. (In the research world, a lot of these drivers and such are the product of almost-cottage-industry developers).


This is our problem. We have lots of lab equipment being run by XP based applications and it seems like very change we are forced to make screws something up and takes hours to fix. When we get a new PC with Windows 7 and get something to work with it we find it's filled with software that updates itself daily and that causes problems. So we take it off the network and that's inconvenient. Our solution is to buy old PC's when we can because they have serial ports and come with XP. Then we cross our fingers and hope nothing goes wrong. After all these years, how can computing technology be so bad?

For all personal and office work we use Macs and never have problems.
But you are not comparing apples to apples. Custom software is a pain, and that is what you are talking about with specialized drivers, DLLs, and libraries.
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by frugaltype » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:50 pm

EternalOptimist wrote:Windows announced that it is pulling support for XP next year, what are you going to do, if anything?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... pport-help
Continue to run XP. Microsoft "support" is worth nothing.

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frugaltype
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by frugaltype » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:53 pm

nisiprius wrote: twenty or thirty thick China red ring binders full of accurate documentation.
Takes bow.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by yosh99 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:02 pm

But you are not comparing apples to apples. Custom software is a pain, and that is what you are talking about with specialized drivers, DLLs, and libraries.
Not really. These are commercial applications written and sold by multi-billion, multi-national companies. I was trying to make the point that there are very compelling reasons for people to resist OS changes if their computing systems are more complex than basic office applications.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jlawrence01 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:10 am

tomd37 wrote:jlawrence,

You describe the same thing that my wife is experiencing on her six year old laptop; extremely slow startup these days. My desktop is fine on startup compared with hers. I am an older gent and have extremely limited knowledge of computer operations.

In December 2010, Office Depot offered a HP desktop for $499. My wife was holding onto $350 in credits for recycling printer cartridges for a year. It made the decision to buy a new machine with Windows 7 a lot easier.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by Mudpuppy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:52 am

jchef wrote:The problem of relying on antivirus, anti-malware and other utilities is that they don't actually patch the hole.

If there is a serious security hole found, the utilities can try to clean up the mess after the malware gets in, but the hole is going to remain. You should expect repeated attacks through the hole and the malware is likely to get smarter. Eventually there is a very real chance the malware will be able to evade or disable your protections.


Safe surfing and using well known software can only get you so far security wise. If there is a major security hole, they may be able to get access to your computer without you doing anything wrong.
Patches are only part of defense in depth and should not be solely relied upon to keep a system secure. The system should also employ layers of defense, such as a firewall, anti-virus/anti-malware, disabling unnecessary services, being judicious in programs installed, implementing isolation techniques, and so on. If patches are available, they should be incorporated into the layered defense, but it is a bit simplistic to say a system cannot be secured without patches.

There are always holes. There aren't always patches. That's why your hardening techniques should have multiple points of prevention, detection, and response.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by terminer » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:54 am

An option I was considering for my xp machine which would be interested to hear opinions on was as follows:
- buy a windows 8 Pro OEM license. Afaik this comes with downgrade rights.
- Install windows7 using those downgrade rights (I assume you just plug the license number in to a win7 install and Microsoft "knows" it's ok and it activates properly) and use that for the moment.

This would enable me to keep using the older hardware and decide further down the line whether I want to upgrade existing hardware, build a new machine etc.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by nisiprius » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:26 am

frugaltype wrote:
nisiprius wrote: twenty or thirty thick China red ring binders full of accurate documentation.
Takes bow.
Really? Thank you!
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by frugaltype » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:28 am

jlawrence01 wrote:I cannot say that I had a lot of problems with Windows XP. However, as my computer reached five years old, it would take about ten minutes to start up.
There's probably all sorts of junk running at startup. Start->run->msconfig to get rid of it. Also defragment the drives.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by ieee488 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:41 am

yosh99 wrote:
But you are not comparing apples to apples. Custom software is a pain, and that is what you are talking about with specialized drivers, DLLs, and libraries.
Not really. These are commercial applications written and sold by multi-billion, multi-national companies. I was trying to make the point that there are very compelling reasons for people to resist OS changes if their computing systems are more complex than basic office applications.
Since, this discussion is for Microsoft Windows XP. And you wrote, For all personal and office work we use Macs and never have problems.
I was noot sure if it was another dig at Microsoft and that Macs were so much superior.

My point was that while these may be complex applications that you are using, the target audience is smaller, so it is unfair to compare one vs the other.
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Re: Windows XP users

Post by bru » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:52 am

mhc wrote:I have a 10 year old XP machine that my kids use. I will do nothing and continue to let my kids use it.
Even with the computer dedicated to your kids you still can and probably will have trouble. Not that XP isn't bombarded now with hackers but the minute the support stops it will be the Wild West. So at the very least it's quite likely the computer will be virused and rendered unuseable and at the worst if it has sensitive data or is used to enter anything important (do your kids enter payment info?) there will be real trouble.

Get the kids a new computer.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by cjking » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:03 am

bru wrote:the minute the support stops it will be the Wild West
I don't see why this should be true. Until the end of last year I was using Windows 2000 on one of my PC's, I assume the support stopped long before. Never had any security issues with it.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by jchef » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:45 am

cjking wrote:
bru wrote:the minute the support stops it will be the Wild West
I don't see why this should be true. Until the end of last year I was using Windows 2000 on one of my PC's, I assume the support stopped long before. Never had any security issues with it.
The number of Windows XP machines that will be in use when support stops will be considerably greater than the number of Windows 2000 machines that were in use when their support stopped in 2010.

As well, a fairly large percentage of Windows 2000 machines were under close control by professional administrators who could take steps to reduce their vulnerability. The percentage of XP machines under close control by administrators will be lower.


It's a much larger and easier prize. So there will be a much richer payout if you can create a large bot net and sell or rent it.

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Re: Windows XP users

Post by 3CT_Paddler » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:54 am

nisiprius wrote:Just a brief note to those urging me to upgrade to Windows XP: I didn't mention the reason I'm using Windows XP, which is that the company I'm consulting for relies on a good handful of Windows XP applications which do not, as it happens, run properly under Windows 7. There are many reasons, both good and bad, why they do not, but among the good reasons is that the interface to various specialized research devices (e.g. various optical measurement instruments sold by Newport Instruments), and these in turn rely on specialized drivers and DLLs and libraries, many of which do not work with Windows 7. (In the research world, a lot of these drivers and such are the product of almost-cottage-industry developers). You may think this sounds rinky-dink, but it is what it is. And from what I've read, the problem of "in-house Windows applications that are essential and don't work under Windows 7" is not all that unique. Even little things like Windows XP using IPv6 by default, or changing the locations of various standard directories, can be a problem. You can say "Well, those applications were not well written," and my answer is that in the real world lots of real things rely on applications that are not well written.

What I mean to say is, Windows NT is not VAX/VMS, and the difference is not so much the underlying technology as it is the absence of twenty or thirty thick China red ring binders full of accurate documentation. I once wasted a full day trying to figure out why my code, which used 16-bit grey-scale graphics wasn't working. It turned out that Windows had never actually implemented that graphics mode, but that nobody had ever bothered to remove the documentation, or the help text, or the code examples showing how to use it. In the greater Windows community, the knowledge that it wasn't implemented was well known, disseminated by word of mouth, handed down from master to apprentice...
That kind of work seems like a prime candidate to be on one of the Linux distros. What I have noticed in my own work is that when you write scripts or small programs on top of closed propriety systems, its very unlikely your program will still run one or two system "upgrades" later. And often the API is radically different in the next version for no real justifiable reason. If you can write it on top of open source software, it's likely that your overall cost over the life of the use of the program will be lower, even if it may take more work to get things working at the start.

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