Used Hondas & Toyotas

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Barefootgirl
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Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Barefootgirl » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:51 pm

Often discussed here is the premium charged for used Hondas and Toyotas...does it therefore stand to reason that the spread between new a Toyota/Honda and a "gently" used model, such as a 2011 or 2012 might be so narrow as to make it more worthwhile to:

(a) minimize any used vehicle risk by going with the brand new Toyota or Honda

OR

(b) if firm on buying used, stick to older models such 2010 and earlier

Am I tracking correctly?

Thanks, BFG
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sport
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by sport » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:58 pm

Used models that are a little older still may be quite expensive. There is a lot of demand for used Hondas and Toyotas. IMO, it is better to buy these new. The amount of depreciation does not seem to be worthwhile unless the car is much older. Of course, then, you are buying an older/high mileage car.
Jeff

Woodshark
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Woodshark » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:43 pm

I agree. Finding a deal on a used Honda or Toyota is like winning lotto. Some people manage to do it but not many. Often it's better to shop wisely, bargain hard and buy new.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by fsrph » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:24 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:Often discussed here is the premium charged for used Hondas and Toyotas...does it therefore stand to reason that the spread between new a Toyota/Honda and a "gently" used model, such as a 2011 or 2012 might be so narrow as to make it more worthwhile to:

(a) minimize any used vehicle risk by going with the brand new Toyota or Honda

OR

(b) if firm on buying used, stick to older models such 2010 and earlier

Am I tracking correctly?

Thanks, BFG
I think you are thinking very correctly. When I bought a new Forester I looked and looked for used ones( a few years old). The used vehicles price was very close to the new one. My opinon is if you are going to keep the car a long time (say 10 years) get the new one. You'll have the full duration of the warranty and it should hold it's resale value thru the years.

Francis
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Toons
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Toons » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:42 pm

Like others have said ,Honda or Toyota ,buy new. I did no regrets :happy
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user5027
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by user5027 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:41 pm

You would think the weakened yen would make the japanese manufactured models more competitively priced.

obgraham
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by obgraham » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:43 pm

user5027 wrote:You would think the weakened yen would make the japanese manufactured models more competitively priced.
But most of them aren't Japanese-built!

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mike143
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by mike143 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:45 pm

The price between new and used was too close so we bought new, 2012 Honda Civic. The cash for clunkers destroyed the used car market, more so for Honda and Toyota.
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German Expat
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by German Expat » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 pm

Even before cash for clunkers in 2005 when we bought our Honda CRV it was better to buy new rather then used. Used cars (2-5 years old) were just too close to the new car price. I think people also tend to buy a lot of add on stuff (paint protection, pin stripes and other useless things) and also load their car up. We wanted a base model with nothing added. I saw 2 year old used cars for more on the lot (did not negotiate hard on them though).
I think people are overpaying for used Honda's and Toyotas and this is one of the markets where a new car can be the better choice if you are good in finding deals (I emailed about 20 Honda dealers within 100 miles) and willing to stand your ground when the finance guy tries to wing extra profit out of you (we bought cash but we didn't tell them ahead of time so that left some hope for them to make more money on us for financing).

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Watty
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Watty » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:11 pm

(a) minimize any used vehicle risk by going with the brand new Toyota or Honda
I don't know if I would say it was because of risk, but for me it was just because used ones were so expensive I decided to buy a new Honda a few years ago.

At the same time I sold my nine year old Toyota with 130K miles on it for about a third of what it cost new. As I recall I only had about $2,000 of non routine maintenace on the Toyota so the monthely cost of ownership was pretty reasonable.


When my Honda is about the same age or maybe just a bit older I will likely do that again.

sambb
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by sambb » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:16 pm

I once had an accord - new, bought for 24000
drove 3 years and 39k miles.
sold for 19,000 when i had to move

the demand is unbleivable for used hondas.. but lots of tire kickers.

fundseeker
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by fundseeker » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:36 pm

We tried to buy our last two Hondas used, but it made no sense. But like someone said, negotiate hard for your new car, get dealers to give you "Out the Door" prices so you can compare actual prices between dealers and don't get screwed with doc costs, etc., at closing, and, don't let them sell you an extended warranty. But if you really want one, you can save hundreds by buying a real Honda factory warranty online from several other Honda dealers in the U.S. I only paid $600 for an extended warranty of 8 years and 70,000 miles for a new Accord.

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Hexdump
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Hexdump » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:36 pm

Would you say that Nissan are viewed in the same light as Toyota and Honda re the resale prices ?

Thanks

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Aptenodytes
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Aptenodytes » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:42 pm

I agree. My last two cars were a Volvo and a Honda. I bought the Volvo used (three years) but bought the Honda new.

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EternalOptimist
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by EternalOptimist » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:31 pm

Have owned Hondas since 1983....good value, very dependable. Will continue to own them for the rest of my life
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Barefootgirl
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Barefootgirl » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:48 pm

Will continue to own them for the rest of my life


No surprise, right?...you're the EternalOptimist :)


sorry, could not resist that one!

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by carolinaman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:49 pm

Hexdump wrote:Would you say that Nissan are viewed in the same light as Toyota and Honda re the resale prices ?

Thanks
I am not sure but you can check values at Edmunds, NADA or KBB. My guess is it may depend on the model. Altima's rate highly and probably have a premium. I have bought Toyotas for last 30 years so I am sold on them. However,IMO, there are some good alternatives to Toyota and Honda if you are looking at late model used cars that do not have the premium. There are even some Toyotas that do not have the premium. We bought a 3 year old Toyota Avalon for about 53% of new and it was low mileage and Toyota Certified.

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6miths
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by 6miths » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:15 pm

So all these years that I have beating myself up for buying new cars rather than used, I could have been doing it right the whole time by driving a very hard bargain and buying new Hondas!!! What a relief! :D
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grabiner
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by grabiner » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:21 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:Often discussed here is the premium charged for used Hondas and Toyotas...does it therefore stand to reason that the spread between new a Toyota/Honda and a "gently" used model, such as a 2011 or 2012 might be so narrow as to make it more worthwhile to:

(a) minimize any used vehicle risk by going with the brand new Toyota or Honda
That's what I did a few years ago. Civics depreciated so little that the cost per year for a new Civic driven for eight years was less than the cost for a three-year-old Civic driven for five years, so I bought a new one to get the benefit of three extra years with a car under warranty. The car is seven years old now, and its Kelly Blue Book trade-in value is still half of what I paid for it new. (I don't have any immediate plans to trade it in.)
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by jlawrence01 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:35 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:Often discussed here is the premium charged for used Hondas and Toyotas...does it therefore stand to reason that the spread between new a Toyota/Honda and a "gently" used model, such as a 2011 or 2012 might be so narrow as to make it more worthwhile to:

In 2007, my Oldsmobile died and I started looking at compact vehicles. After being in rental cars for a month, I decided to buy a 2007 Toyota Corolla for $14k.

I looked at three used Corollas-

Private owner, 2006 LE, 15k miles - She wanted $16k firm as she paid close to sticker.
Wells Fargo, 2006 LE, 20k miles - They wanted $15.5 on the repo.
Hertz, 2005 LE, 32k miles - They wanted $14.8

It was the end of the model year and the new Corollas were being redesigned. The dealership was in an old, dilapidated building and would be moving into a modern building. He wanted to move a lot of cars so that he would have more cars to sell in 2008 (not such a wise decision at the time).

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steve roy
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by steve roy » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:51 pm

Aptenodytes wrote:I agree. My last two cars were a Volvo and a Honda. I bought the Volvo used (three years) but bought the Honda new.
We got an almost-new Volvo 60 at a deep discount. It was a dealer loaner with 3000 miles, and they couldn't give it away because the car was a stick. You want a deal on a new Honda, go after a manual. Dealers have a tough time selling those, and are often willing to wheel and deal.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by scrabbler1 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:34 am

I have a 2007 Corolla I bought new in early 2007. For the last few years I have been getting form letters from area Toyota dealerships (not just the one I bought mine from) wanting to buy my Corolla or asking me to trade it in toawrd the purchase price of a new Corolla. This tells me that they are eager to acquire used Corollas to resell (and to get some more money out of me, of course!).

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Murray Boyd
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Murray Boyd » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:39 am

I keep hearing from people (in the Seattle area at least) used quality cars are so expensive you're better off buying new.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by tibbitts » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:55 am

scrabbler1 wrote:I have a 2007 Corolla I bought new in early 2007. For the last few years I have been getting form letters from area Toyota dealerships (not just the one I bought mine from) wanting to buy my Corolla or asking me to trade it in toawrd the purchase price of a new Corolla. This tells me that they are eager to acquire used Corollas to resell (and to get some more money out of me, of course!).
Mostly the latter. I assume you realize that owners of every other brand, GM etc., are receiving the same letters.

Paul

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TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by TheGreyingDuke » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:31 am

steve roy wrote:. You want a deal on a new Honda, go after a manual. Dealers have a tough time selling those, and are often willing to wheel and deal.
That depends where you live. I am in Vermont for most of the year and my impression is that there are many cars with manual trannies, something about being in the snow belt and looking for some greater control. Some years ago my BIL was looking for a Toyota mini-van with a stick, he lives around Boston, and there were none to be found there. His nearby dealers offered to look for one and every one they found were in Vermont and none of the Vermont dealers would swap. So he came up north and bought it here.

I have always driven sticks and lament the paucity of options these days. Try looking for a wagon with a stick, very few choices.
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Goodman60
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Goodman60 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:53 am

grabiner wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:Often discussed here is the premium charged for used Hondas and Toyotas...does it therefore stand to reason that the spread between new a Toyota/Honda and a "gently" used model, such as a 2011 or 2012 might be so narrow as to make it more worthwhile to:

(a) minimize any used vehicle risk by going with the brand new Toyota or Honda
That's what I did a few years ago. Civics depreciated so little that the cost per year for a new Civic driven for eight years was less than the cost for a three-year-old Civic driven for five years, so I bought a new one to get the benefit of three extra years with a car under warranty. The car is seven years old now, and its Kelly Blue Book trade-in value is still half of what I paid for it new. (I don't have any immediate plans to trade it in.)
Oddly this seems to suggest getting a new one every 3 years. Even leasing.

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Ged
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Ged » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:55 pm

scrabbler1 wrote:I have a 2007 Corolla I bought new in early 2007. For the last few years I have been getting form letters from area Toyota dealerships (not just the one I bought mine from) wanting to buy my Corolla or asking me to trade it in toawrd the purchase price of a new Corolla. This tells me that they are eager to acquire used Corollas to resell (and to get some more money out of me, of course!).
Every car dealer does this to try to drum up business.

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grabiner
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by grabiner » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:07 pm

Goodman60 wrote:
grabiner wrote:That's what I did a few years ago. Civics depreciated so little that the cost per year for a new Civic driven for eight years was less than the cost for a three-year-old Civic driven for five years, so I bought a new one to get the benefit of three extra years with a car under warranty. The car is seven years old now, and its Kelly Blue Book trade-in value is still half of what I paid for it new. (I don't have any immediate plans to trade it in.)
Oddly this seems to suggest getting a new one every 3 years. Even leasing.
No, because of the transaction costs. You lose depreciation for a car every year, but you also take an avoidable loss every time you trade in a car and buy another car; the less often you do this, the lower the cost per year of driving your cars. In my example, by buying a used car, I get to spread the transaction costs over a longer time period.

If you lease a car, the depreciation allowance in the lease is based on the assumed trade-in value, so you still pay the same transaction costs, and in addition, you pay the costs of financing.
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by bayview » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:10 pm

Ged wrote:
scrabbler1 wrote:I have a 2007 Corolla I bought new in early 2007. For the last few years I have been getting form letters from area Toyota dealerships (not just the one I bought mine from) wanting to buy my Corolla or asking me to trade it in toawrd the purchase price of a new Corolla. This tells me that they are eager to acquire used Corollas to resell (and to get some more money out of me, of course!).
Every car dealer does this to try to drum up business.
No kidding! I get pitiful letters from my local Honda dealer every month, telling me that they are desperately looking for 2002 or 03 (I can never remember which mine is), because they have buyers lined up 'round the block.

Yeah, right. They just want to sell me a new one, and they'll ship my car off to auction within an hour. :D
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Goodman60 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:18 pm

grabiner wrote:
Goodman60 wrote:
grabiner wrote:That's what I did a few years ago. Civics depreciated so little that the cost per year for a new Civic driven for eight years was less than the cost for a three-year-old Civic driven for five years, so I bought a new one to get the benefit of three extra years with a car under warranty. The car is seven years old now, and its Kelly Blue Book trade-in value is still half of what I paid for it new. (I don't have any immediate plans to trade it in.)
Oddly this seems to suggest getting a new one every 3 years. Even leasing.
No, because of the transaction costs. You lose depreciation for a car every year, but you also take an avoidable loss every time you trade in a car and buy another car; the less often you do this, the lower the cost per year of driving your cars. In my example, by buying a used car, I get to spread the transaction costs over a longer time period.

If you lease a car, the depreciation allowance in the lease is based on the assumed trade-in value, so you still pay the same transaction costs, and in addition, you pay the costs of financing.
Yeah I know. But as long as these cars retain such a high resale value, the cost of "new every 3" is a lot less than would normally be the case. Especially if you take good care of it and sell it yourself for a higher-than-trade-in value. Again, I agree that it will still be more costly than driving a new Hon/Toy into the ground, but just saying that it won't be AS MUCH more costly as normal.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by scrabbler1 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:26 pm

Bayview, Ged, and tibbitts, I don't doubt that the dealers are trying to drum up business. But this did not happen to me with the previous cars I owned in the 1980s and 1990s (one bought new, the other bought slightly used - 6 months - it was a former rental sold by a GM dealer which I owned for 15 years).

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by TheGreyingDuke » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:47 pm

bayview wrote:Yeah, right. They just want to sell me a new one, and they'll ship my car off to auction within an hour. :D
The discussion here leads one to a different conclusion, that rather than send it to auction the dealer is going to keep it and sell it for the high retained value the car represents,
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by plannerman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:30 am

I bought a "left-over" 2012 Nissan Murano in February of 2013 for less than i could buy a year-old comparably equipped Murano from Carmax.

plannerman

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grabiner
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by grabiner » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:19 pm

plannerman wrote:I bought a "left-over" 2012 Nissan Murano in February of 2013 for less than i could buy a year-old comparably equipped Murano from Carmax.
As long as year-old new cars aren't lemons and you are going to drive them for a long time, they are good deals. The long time is important, because a year-old new car takes a much larger depreciation loss the day you drive it off the showroom floor. But it can be just as good a car for you, and if you keep the car for eight years, the fact that it is nine years old rather than eight when you trade it in won't make much difference in the trade-in value.
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by tibbitts » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:44 pm

scrabbler1 wrote:Bayview, Ged, and tibbitts, I don't doubt that the dealers are trying to drum up business. But this did not happen to me with the previous cars I owned in the 1980s and 1990s (one bought new, the other bought slightly used - 6 months - it was a former rental sold by a GM dealer which I owned for 15 years).
We too bought a 6mo old GM car from a GM dealer about 7 years ago, also a former rental, and subsequently received at least a half-dozen mailings telling us how valuable our car would be on a trade.

The same thing didn't happen to me with cars I bought in the '80s or '90s either, but it happened for both vehicles I've bought since 2002. So I'd suggest it doesn't have anything to do with domestic vs. foreign vehicles; it's just something that might be happening more often over the past decade or so than before.

Paul

Edit: received another offer from a dealer to trade for the 7yr old car in the mail today.
Last edited by tibbitts on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by sls239 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:41 pm

Personally, I think the differences in the cars for the model years themselves has a big influence on if it is "worth it" to buy new or not. For example I wouldn't buy a 2012 Civic, it got so much criticism that even though it was a redesign, they did another redesign for 2013 which everyone agrees is much better.

The design cycles are about 6 years long, and they tend to do a stylistic refresh in the middle. So I would buy a new design as long as it got decent reviews. If the design is 4 or 5 years old, I'd definitely be looking for a used one.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Goodman60 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:17 pm

sls239 wrote:Personally, I think the differences in the cars for the model years themselves has a big influence on if it is "worth it" to buy new or not. For example I wouldn't buy a 2012 Civic, it got so much criticism that even though it was a redesign, they did another redesign for 2013 which everyone agrees is much better.

The design cycles are about 6 years long, and they tend to do a stylistic refresh in the middle. So I would buy a new design as long as it got decent reviews. If the design is 4 or 5 years old, I'd definitely be looking for a used one.
But most of the 2012 stuff was cosmetic. For people who don't really care about that, at the right price discount, it might be worth it. Oddly in spite of Consumer Reports (and others) panning of the 2012 Civic, it sold well because they priced it accordingly.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Randomize » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:46 pm

In the Northwest, Subarus are the same way. With the AWD and hip mantra, nobody wants to sell them.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by bayview » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:33 am

TheGreyingDuke wrote:
bayview wrote:Yeah, right. They just want to sell me a new one, and they'll ship my car off to auction within an hour. :D
The discussion here leads one to a different conclusion, that rather than send it to auction the dealer is going to keep it and sell it for the high retained value the car represents,
The last time that I took my car in for service, I didn't see any 10+ year old cars for sale, although I realize that this will vary.

I agree that if I had a 2010 or so and traded it in, they would shine it up and sell it themselves.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by toyotaman1 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:37 am

Yes, you are exactly right. You have to go back 3 or more years to see an appreciable difference. I own 4 Toyotas: 94 Corolla, 95 Camry coupe, 97 4Runner and 01 Tacoma regular cab 4x4 manual trans. Honda's are my second choice. I don't think that they are quite as durable over the long run as Toyotas are.

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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by Barefootgirl » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:09 pm

hip mantra ?

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ruanddu
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Re: Used Hondas & Toyotas

Post by ruanddu » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:44 pm

German Expat, can you elaborate on how long you waited to tell salesguy you were paying cash? Just trying to learn good negotiating skills. :)

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