How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

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Fallible
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Fallible » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:00 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
Colorado13 wrote:I have heard that today one of the (if not *the*) most dangerous day of the year to be on the road in terms of car accidents as a result of daylight savings time. Or is that an urban legend? Either way, be careful out there...

In the UK it is argued the other way.

In the morning when it is dark we are *more* alert. So longer darkness when driving to work is less lethal.

Human alertness drops between 4-6pm, ie just when we commute home. The UK is pretty much all above 50 degrees latitude so it gets dark at 3.30-4.00 in winter at the solstice.

If we were to adopt British Summer Time (GMT +1) all year around, we would save lives. Perhaps the lives of as many as 100 children-- the most likely to be killed by cars in that crucial 4-6pm time.

However
1. the farmers hate going to work in the dark-- that would hurt the politicians...
...

Unless I'm missing something here (a quite common occurrence with me), considering their usual hours, aren't farmers used to going to work in the dark? What's another hour?
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tadamsmar
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by tadamsmar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:10 pm

Fallible wrote: Unless I'm missing something here (a quite common occurrence with me), considering their usual hours, aren't farmers used to going to work in the dark? What's another hour?
I grew up on a dairy farm and my dad did not like DST because the dairy cows were hard to adjust to the time shift.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TSR » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:11 pm

nyblitz wrote:Another point of view - as an alternative to purchasing an expensive super safe vehicle, consider cutting the amount of driving you have to do. This is not always possible, but may be incredibly cost effective as well as less dangerous. You also have more time, which is priceless.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/ ... commuting/
I too recommend this, but there's another write-up he did analyzing the cost of this safety, which is pretty on-point for this question:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/06/ ... -illusion/

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by stemikger » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:18 pm

midareff wrote:Best option I ever took (besides air-conditioning) is the blind spot warning system in my MB.
+1000. Unfortunately my car does not have one, but I agree with this statement. I can't tell you how many times I have to check my blind spot. I drive in a heavy traffic area and if I wasn't as experienced as I am I'm sure I would have been in trouble.

I stress this to all the young drivers I know. I drive a small car and it's very easy to lose a car in my blind spot. In fact it happened yesterday, but because I'm sooo aware of this I check about 20 times (LOL) before I change lanes.
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by downshiftme » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:40 pm

I don't agree with this sentiment. I believe it matters a lot to drive defensively and always try to be prepared for other drivers to do something stupid or reckless. That's how I get my peace of mind, not by paying extra for supposed safety features.
I think many Bogleheads believe in defensive driving and have taken positive steps to be prepared to drive as well as they can. Even though I also do so, I am honest in assessing that I am not always perfect. My intentions are always to drive as defensively and well as I can, but I can never guarantee that my attention might not be distracted, or a mechanical failure might not happen, or another driver will never do something that I do not anticipate. Prudence means taking what steps I can to reduce my risks, but not being blind to the facts that there are additional risks I do not completely control.

AFTER a life changing accident, I'm sure I would highly value safety features. The key seems to be to understand that value before the incident occurs.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Rodc » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:07 pm

stemikger wrote:
midareff wrote:Best option I ever took (besides air-conditioning) is the blind spot warning system in my MB.
+1000. Unfortunately my car does not have one, but I agree with this statement. I can't tell you how many times I have to check my blind spot. I drive in a heavy traffic area and if I wasn't as experienced as I am I'm sure I would have been in trouble.

I stress this to all the young drivers I know. I drive a small car and it's very easy to lose a car in my blind spot. In fact it happened yesterday, but because I'm sooo aware of this I check about 20 times (LOL) before I change lanes.
Try turning out your mirrors. Many people set mirrors so then can actually see the side of their own car when they look at the side mirrors. You don't need to see the side of your car. If you can see the side of your car, turn out the mirrors until you just barely can't see the side of your car, then turn them out a little farther. Then the blind spot is a tiny sliver right next to your car, too small for any car to fit in. Now slow down on the highway so people pass you. You should be able to see them come up in your side mirrors and just as they pass out of vision in the mirror they should pop up in your peripheral vision. If not, turn out the mirrors a scooch more. You should be able to get to where there is no blind spot.

I learned this when I took my daughter to one of those high end real deal defensive driving courses. It was a real eye opener (pun intended). It is neat trick that works great. I have used this on a number of cars and it has worked on every one. It does take just a little getting used to; if you are use to the mirror sighting down the side of you car it is a little disconcerting when you look and see no car.
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by hicabob » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:15 pm

Rodc wrote:
stemikger wrote:
midareff wrote:Best option I ever took (besides air-conditioning) is the blind spot warning system in my MB.
+1000. Unfortunately my car does not have one, but I agree with this statement. I can't tell you how many times I have to check my blind spot. I drive in a heavy traffic area and if I wasn't as experienced as I am I'm sure I would have been in trouble.

I stress this to all the young drivers I know. I drive a small car and it's very easy to lose a car in my blind spot. In fact it happened yesterday, but because I'm sooo aware of this I check about 20 times (LOL) before I change lanes.
Try turning out your mirrors. Many people set mirrors so then can actually see the side of their own car when they look at the side mirrors. You don't need to see the side of your car. If you can see the side of your car, turn out the mirrors until you just barely can't see the side of your car, then turn them out a little farther. Then the blind spot is a tiny sliver right next to your car, too small for any car to fit in. Now slow down on the highway so people pass you. You should be able to see them come up in your side mirrors and just as they pass out of vision in the mirror they should pop up in your peripheral vision. If not, turn out the mirrors a scooch more. You should be able to get to where there is no blind spot.

I learned this when I took my daughter to one of those high end real deal defensive driving courses. It was a real eye opener (pun intended). It is neat trick that works great. I have used this on a number of cars and it has worked on every one. It does take just a little getting used to; if you are use to the mirror sighting down the side of you car it is a little disconcerting when you look and see no car.

Yes indeed - here's a tutorial
http://www.cartalk.com/sites/default/fi ... irrors.pdf

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Fallible » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:35 pm

Rodc wrote:...

Try turning out your mirrors. Many people set mirrors so then can actually see the side of their own car when they look at the side mirrors. You don't need to see the side of your car. If you can see the side of your car, turn out the mirrors until you just barely can't see the side of your car, then turn them out a little farther. Then the blind spot is a tiny sliver right next to your car, too small for any car to fit in. Now slow down on the highway so people pass you. You should be able to see them come up in your side mirrors and just as they pass out of vision in the mirror they should pop up in your peripheral vision. If not, turn out the mirrors a scooch more. You should be able to get to where there is no blind spot.
...
Excellent idea. I began turning out the mirrors after learning about it in a driving safety class a couple years ago and it does work. I'm also aware of blind spots on other cars, especially larger ones, where I know they probably cannot see my small car coming up on them. I don't know any way to let a driver know I'm in his blind spot so if I've made the decision to pass him, I speed up a little to get past his blind spot and might also turn my lights on - anything to make sure he knows I'm there.
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:57 pm

Fallible wrote:
Rodc wrote:...

Try turning out your mirrors. Many people set mirrors so then can actually see the side of their own car when they look at the side mirrors. You don't need to see the side of your car. If you can see the side of your car, turn out the mirrors until you just barely can't see the side of your car, then turn them out a little farther. Then the blind spot is a tiny sliver right next to your car, too small for any car to fit in. Now slow down on the highway so people pass you. You should be able to see them come up in your side mirrors and just as they pass out of vision in the mirror they should pop up in your peripheral vision. If not, turn out the mirrors a scooch more. You should be able to get to where there is no blind spot.
...
Excellent idea. I began turning out the mirrors after learning about it in a driving safety class a couple years ago and it does work. I'm also aware of blind spots on other cars, especially larger ones, where I know they probably cannot see my small car coming up on them. I don't know any way to let a driver know I'm in his blind spot so if I've made the decision to pass him, I speed up a little to get past his blind spot and might also turn my lights on - anything to make sure he knows I'm there.
I've taught my son how to do this, but I also bought him a Volvo XC60 T6 AWD with BLIS (their blind spot detection system). I'm thankful that we're in a financial position to be able to do this. I know that we're spoiled, but I'm not calculating marginal safety improvements to the fourth decimal place when it comes to my family. As far as being able to control the car and avoid accidents (defensive driving), this car's suspension, engine, transmission, stability control, AWD, etc., make it quite a wonderful car to drive and avoid accidents in :D

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Dandy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:30 pm

as i get older wiser and somewhat wealthier i value car safety much more. I think of the guilt I would have had if there had been a serious injury or more to me or anyone because of being too frugal -- as in bought a Ford Pinto!!.

One reason why buying older used cars is problematic because of the increase generally in car safety. I would try to buy cars that test out well but not necessarily the very best that costs a lot more. The good crash tests, stability control, braking distance, antilock brakes etc are often found in most mid size sedans.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Steve K » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:34 pm

My 14 year old daughter will be driving in a few years and her being safe is a very big priority. Also looking at the S60 as one of the cars she will have access to drive.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:42 pm

Steve K wrote:My 14 year old daughter will be driving in a few years and her being safe is a very big priority. Also looking at the S60 as one of the cars she will have access to drive.
Steve,
The S60 is a great car, and it was actually my son's preference. The Xc60 is not dissimilar, but is higher (and thus more visible to other drivers) and heavier. Either car is, IMO, a great choice, but consider the XC also. You have some time :D

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Steve K » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:50 pm

Thank you for the information. Coincidence you mention the XC60, it is wahat my wide drives and with the BLIS also mentioned in thread.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Nowizard » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:20 pm

None in a direct manner, though it is one of many considerations. I like an SUV and have a 2005 Toyota that is the best vehicle ever. I like to ride higher than a standard coupe, but that is the only consideration I make. Other than that, I consider safety to be more of a function of the driver than the vehicle, cars like Mini-Coopers and Smart cars, excluded.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Rodc » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:35 pm

I've taught my son how to do this, but I also bought him a Volvo XC60 T6 AWD with BLIS (their blind spot detection system). I'm thankful that we're in a financial position to be able to do this. I know that we're spoiled, but I'm not calculating marginal safety improvements to the fourth decimal place when it comes to my family.
Is the XC60 truly the safest of all cars on the road? More safe than a top of the line MB or other such car?

Why would you not spend the extra for the safety of your family on an even better car?

Virtually all of us draw the line somewhere based on the marginal improvement for the extra cost, it seems to me.
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:40 pm

Rodc wrote:
I've taught my son how to do this, but I also bought him a Volvo XC60 T6 AWD with BLIS (their blind spot detection system). I'm thankful that we're in a financial position to be able to do this. I know that we're spoiled, but I'm not calculating marginal safety improvements to the fourth decimal place when it comes to my family.
Is the XC60 truly the safest of all cars on the road? More safe than a top of the line MB or other such car?

Why would you not spend the extra for the safety of your family on an even better car?

Virtually all of us draw the line somewhere based on the marginal improvement for the extra cost, it seems to me.
I don't know. Perhaps an S550 is safer; perhaps not. Our Range Rovers are, I believe, relatively safe, although they don't have some of the advanced technology that the XC60 has. I didn't say it artfully (in fact, I think I made it sound the opposite of what I meant), but my thinking is that cars at the level of the XC60 are probably at the point where diminishing safety returns set in.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:42 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues (car safety).
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by fareastwarriors » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:50 pm

I don't really think about it.
Maybe I'm just young and reckless. I guess my thinking might change when I get older.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by tadamsmar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:23 am

I once made an estimate that equipping your car with a safety feature that prevented 30% of fatalities would reduce your probability by of being a fatality by 1/1702. Here's the math:

1.53 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (vmt)
128,000 vmt per vehicles lifetime
1.58*1000*128,000/100,000,000 = 1.9584 deaths per 1000 cars
0.3 = ESC fatality reduction (based on field data)
0.3*1.9585 =0.58752 lives saved per 1000 cars equiped with ESC
Equipping 1702 (100/0.58752) vehicles saves one life

This assumes average occupancy and I don't know what that is, probably close to 1.

Assume you own a 2011 car without ESC that will probably last another 128,000 miles. You can justify spending $5870.54 to trade if for a similar vehicle with ESC if you put a value of $10,000,000 on the life that might be saved.

Of course that assume average skill, does not apply to residents of Lake Webegon.

Now for the OP's question about a Volvo S60 vs a Camry. The hardest thing to estimate is the fatality reduction. They are in about the same curb weight category and the difference in safety features probably don't amount to much, so I estimate < 10%. Using a 10% reduction:

The price difference is about $10,000. (I assume that's the cost of safety, but perhap it should be lower if having an S60 instead of a Camry has some other value to you.)

$10,000 * 0.3/0.1 * 1702 = $51,060,000 for the life probably saved. That's the break even point.

This only takes into account fatalities, injuries should be worth something too.

Unlike ESC, I am not sure an S60 has any additional safety features (over the Camry) that have been measured such that percent fatality reduction could be estimated.

PS: Don't want to leave the impression that ESC is retrofittable. Equipping your car with it means buying one that already has it.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 am

Steve K wrote:My 14 year old daughter will be driving in a few years and her being safe is a very big priority. Also looking at the S60 as one of the cars she will have access to drive.
given it is the early years where we are at most danger, when driving, that's a good policy. Young men especially (acceleration is deadly in the hands of young men) but even young women have much higher accident rates (young men are basically the cause of something over 50% of lethal road accidents, I think I have that stat right, that men under 30 cause c. half of all lethal road accidents? (where someone is judged to be at fault)).

Remember though a young driver, particularly a young woman, may not be comfortable driving an SUV or large vehicle, and may not handle it well, thus increasing risk.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:21 am

Fallible wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
Colorado13 wrote:I have heard that today one of the (if not *the*) most dangerous day of the year to be on the road in terms of car accidents as a result of daylight savings time. Or is that an urban legend? Either way, be careful out there...

In the UK it is argued the other way.

In the morning when it is dark we are *more* alert. So longer darkness when driving to work is less lethal.

Human alertness drops between 4-6pm, ie just when we commute home. The UK is pretty much all above 50 degrees latitude so it gets dark at 3.30-4.00 in winter at the solstice.

If we were to adopt British Summer Time (GMT +1) all year around, we would save lives. Perhaps the lives of as many as 100 children-- the most likely to be killed by cars in that crucial 4-6pm time.

However
1. the farmers hate going to work in the dark-- that would hurt the politicians...
...

Unless I'm missing something here (a quite common occurrence with me), considering their usual hours, aren't farmers used to going to work in the dark? What's another hour?


You would think, but the complaint from the Scottish constituencies (Edinburgh is on 55 degrees latitude, so Scotland is a *long* way north, Minneapolis is on 44 degrees, Juneau is 58 degrees) (not just the farmers in fact) is it would cost them an hour of morning daylight.

that seems to be the showstopper. But it would save lives-- simply because humans are more alert in mornings than in late afternoon.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by tadamsmar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:26 am

I think it typically the case that young drivers end up with the older, smaller, less safe vehicles. A this point in time I think this pattern (this gradient of safety) is worse than usual, since newer larger cars are much more likely to have ESC than an older smaller cars due to the introduction schedule over the last decade or so.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Dave76 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:53 am

Volvo's legendary reputation for safety no longer stands out in the crowd. My parents bought a Volvo in 1984, and that was the very first car in our family that was equipped with shoulder belts for the rear seat passengers. That was rare in those days. My top-of-the-line 1987 Chrysler doesn't have them. If safety was your priority in those days, and you wanted one of the safest cars on the road, you had to spend a lot of money. Today, everybody's on the safety bandwagon. You can now buy a "top safety pick" for thousands less. Today, brands that lack prestige are pretty much on par with Mercedes Benz and Volvo. Volvo and Mercedes Benz may still be at the forefront in vehicle safety technology, but the gap has narrowed to the point that they probably rank 'first among equals'.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by tadamsmar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:03 am

Dave76 wrote: Today, brands that lack prestige are pretty much on par with Mercedes Benz and Volvo. Volvo and Mercedes Benz may still be at the forefront in vehicle safety technology, but the gap has narrowed to the point that they probably rank 'first among equals'.
The size of the gap at any given time depends on what's in the pipeline, what the forefront has that the rest mostly don't. For 2013 models, the answer seems to be "not much of importance". For 2003 models, the answer was "ESC with its 30% reduction in fatalities". Maybe something of importance will come along in the future,

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:09 am

tadamsmar wrote:I once made an estimate that equipping your car with a safety feature that prevented 30% of fatalities would reduce your probability by of being a fatality by 1/1702. Here's the math:

1.53 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (vmt)
128,000 vmt per vehicles lifetime
1.58*1000*128,000/100,000,000 = 1.9584 deaths per 1000 cars
0.3 = ESC fatality reduction (based on field data)
0.3*1.9585 =0.58752 lives saved per 1000 cars equiped with ESC
Equipping 1702 (100/0.58752) vehicles saves one life

[snipped for brevity]
This is a perfect illustration of "The Economist vs. The Parent." I'm not qualified to agree or disagree with your statistical analysis, but as a parent I (figuratively, anyway) stopped parsing at 30% fatality reduction. Yup, that's what my kid needs.

As your analysis points out, the difference between an ESC equipped car and one without it is more compelling than the Camry vs Volvo question.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:20 am

Dave76 wrote:Volvo's legendary reputation for safety no longer stands out in the crowd. My parents bought a Volvo in 1984, and that was the very first car in our family that was equipped with shoulder belts for the rear seat passengers. That was rare in those days. My top-of-the-line 1987 Chrysler doesn't have them. If safety was your priority in those days, and you wanted one of the safest cars on the road, you had to spend a lot of money. Today, everybody's on the safety bandwagon. You can now buy a "top safety pick" for thousands less. Today, brands that lack prestige are pretty much on par with Mercedes Benz and Volvo. Volvo and Mercedes Benz may still be at the forefront in vehicle safety technology, but the gap has narrowed to the point that they probably rank 'first among equals'.
Dave, I can't disagree that there have been great improvements in safety among most cars. But, if "today, everybody's on the safety bandwagon," I feel more comfortable with a company that was there before there even was a bandwagon :D

For example, and I'm not a car guy so cut me some slack, I understand that a new frontal collision test (partial offset?) caught many manufacturers by surprise and their results were not good. They had done the automotive equivalent of "teaching to the test" and their vehicles did well in previous years' tests but not the new one. It is my understanding that Volvo (probably among others) did quite well on this new test.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Rodc » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:23 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
Colorado13 wrote:I have heard that today one of the (if not *the*) most dangerous day of the year to be on the road in terms of car accidents as a result of daylight savings time. Or is that an urban legend? Either way, be careful out there...

In the UK it is argued the other way.

In the morning when it is dark we are *more* alert. So longer darkness when driving to work is less lethal.

Human alertness drops between 4-6pm, ie just when we commute home. The UK is pretty much all above 50 degrees latitude so it gets dark at 3.30-4.00 in winter at the solstice.

If we were to adopt British Summer Time (GMT +1) all year around, we would save lives. Perhaps the lives of as many as 100 children-- the most likely to be killed by cars in that crucial 4-6pm time.

However
1. the farmers hate going to work in the dark-- that would hurt the politicians...
...

Unless I'm missing something here (a quite common occurrence with me), considering their usual hours, aren't farmers used to going to work in the dark? What's another hour?


You would think, but the complaint from the Scottish constituencies (Edinburgh is on 55 degrees latitude, so Scotland is a *long* way north, Minneapolis is on 44 degrees, Juneau is 58 degrees) (not just the farmers in fact) is it would cost them an hour of morning daylight.

that seems to be the showstopper. But it would save lives-- simply because humans are more alert in mornings than in late afternoon.


If you are a dairy farmer I don't understand why you need to bother. Change your clocks by an hour. Change the time you get up and going by an hour. Cows would experience no change in routine and farmers would not either.

If you have say a retail job with fixed hours of operations, then changing clocks changes your routine.

This seems like a non-problem for farmers.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Rodc » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:28 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Dave76 wrote:Volvo's legendary reputation for safety no longer stands out in the crowd. My parents bought a Volvo in 1984, and that was the very first car in our family that was equipped with shoulder belts for the rear seat passengers. That was rare in those days. My top-of-the-line 1987 Chrysler doesn't have them. If safety was your priority in those days, and you wanted one of the safest cars on the road, you had to spend a lot of money. Today, everybody's on the safety bandwagon. You can now buy a "top safety pick" for thousands less. Today, brands that lack prestige are pretty much on par with Mercedes Benz and Volvo. Volvo and Mercedes Benz may still be at the forefront in vehicle safety technology, but the gap has narrowed to the point that they probably rank 'first among equals'.
Dave, I can't disagree that there have been great improvements in safety among most cars. But, if "today, everybody's on the safety bandwagon," I feel more comfortable with a company that was there before there even was a bandwagon :D

For example, and I'm not a car guy so cut me some slack, I understand that a new frontal collision test (partial offset?) caught many manufacturers by surprise and their results were not good. They had done the automotive equivalent of "teaching to the test" and their vehicles did well in previous years' tests but not the new one. It is my understanding that Volvo (probably among others) did quite well on this new test.
I wonder as far as Volvo in recent years. When Ford bought Volvo, at least for while the 60 series was, I think, based on the Ford Taurus platform. How much of any perceived increase in safety due to being a Volvo disappeared in that transformation? What is the status today?
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

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tadamsmar
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by tadamsmar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:50 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:This is a perfect illustration of "The Economist vs. The Parent." I'm not qualified to agree or disagree with your statistical analysis, but as a parent I (figuratively, anyway) stopped parsing at 30% fatality reduction. Yup, that's what my kid needs.
Also, you can get it on the cheap by learning how to locate the used cars with ESC:

http://epicurusgarden.blogspot.com/2011 ... h-esc.html

btenny
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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by btenny » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:27 am

I am not so sure the XC60 is that safe. Yes it has good crumple zones. BUT it does NOT have voice activated cell phone calling. You have to punch in the number you want to dial to make a call and those numbers are on a key pad on the dash center. A real PIA...... So according to me and many others the Volvo fails badly at solving one of the worst distractions in many modern cars.. And yes I am sure of this. I looked at a new 2013 XC60 on Saturday.

So any new car I buy will have fully automatic voice calling and answering of a cell phone via blue tooth. It is standard technology but a option on many cars.

Bill

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by btenny » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:34 am

I am also sure that ABS is VERY bad news for the winters and snowy roads where I live. The darn stuff will not turn off on my older Jeep and thus activates pretty regularly near icy and slick intersections and extends my stopping distance.... A real PIA.. Basically I have to plan on almost not stopping or doing a California roll at the bad intersections rather than fully stopping because the ABS kicks in so I don't stop until I am in the center of the intersection. Any new car that does not have ESC that can be turned off is bad news IMO.

Bill

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:00 pm

btenny wrote:I am not so sure the XC60 is that safe. Yes it has good crumple zones. BUT it does NOT have voice activated cell phone calling. You have to punch in the number you want to dial to make a call and those numbers are on a key pad on the dash center. A real PIA...... So according to me and many others the Volvo fails badly at solving one of the worst distractions in many modern cars.. And yes I am sure of this. I looked at a new 2013 XC60 on Saturday.

So any new car I buy will have fully automatic voice calling and answering of a cell phone via blue tooth. It is standard technology but a option on many cars.

Bill
iPhones, and I would guess most smartphones, can do voice activated calling. I personally don't care for even Bluetooth phone use for the driver, and of course not ever using a phone by holding it. I seldom answer phone calls in the car, and if a text comes through, I'll either ask whoever's in the passenger seat to handle it, or if I'm driving alone, ignore it until later. My son knows that phone use while driving (Bluetooth or not), if discovered, will cause immediate loss of driving privileges for a good while. It's on the list with no tattoos, pregnancies, motorcycles, STDs, etc. Since I don't just preach it, but he's seen me living the no-phone use, it might even work.

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Jerilynn » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:32 am

squirm wrote:For example, a new Camry vs a new Volvo S60. The Volvo is safer in terms of crash test worthiness. However the Volvo costs more. I'm always undecided and perplexed about weighing those differences. I've known some people that have been pretty banged up in a car wreck, on the other hand, want to be realistic.

What do you do when shopping for a vehicle?
What source are you using for the data? anyhow....

I put a premium on safety. (probably comes from my flight training and experience). That said, 'crash tests' are not an exact science and have many variables.

The way I look at it, if the crash test results are poor, I wont buy that car. Once they get to really good (4 stars) then it doesn't matter if the car is really good or great (5 stars).

The vehicle I just ordered was rated 4 stars by http://www.safercar.gov.

For what it's worth the VAST majority of new Volvos are not rated. The few that are have 4 stars.
Cordially, Jeri . . . 100% all natural asset allocation. (no supernatural methods used)

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Re: How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

Post by Alex Frakt » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:05 pm

I'm locking this general comment thread. Please see this post A reminder that non-investing general comment threads are OT for more information.

As an example of the difference between general comment and personal threads, here is how this thread started.
How much of a price do you put on vehicle safety?

For example, a new Camry vs a new Volvo S60. The Volvo is safer in terms of crash test worthiness. However the Volvo costs more. I'm always undecided and perplexed about weighing those differences. I've known some people that have been pretty banged up in a car wreck, on the other hand, want to be realistic.

What do you do when shopping for a vehicle?
If it had been posted something like the following, it would be fine.
How much of a price should I put on vehicle safety?

I'm shopping for a new car and looking at a new Camry and a new Volvo S60. The Volvo is safer in terms of crash test worthiness. However the Volvo costs more. I'm undecided and perplexed about weighing these differences. I've known some people that have been pretty banged up in a car wreck, on the other hand, I want to be realistic.
The reason we added this requirement is that we realized at one point that general threads were eating up a large percentage of the moderators' time. The threads were much more likely to go off topic and often result in conflicts between posters that spill over onto other threads.

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