census - seriously?

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NerdGirl
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census - seriously?

Post by NerdGirl »

I received a letter and then a postcard directing me to fill out an online census. It SAYS U.S. Dept of Commerce (American Community Survey) and the domain is respond.census.gov which looks legit. Tonight I logged in and started the process. This is RIDICULOUS! It wanted to know how much our utilities cost, price of our house, employment details... and I'm only about half done.

Do I REALLY have to fill this out? Why would they possibly need this detailed information? I thought a census was "how many people live at this address?" and that would be it!
sschullo
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by sschullo »

No, you don't have to fill it out.
The census is conducted every ten years, the last one in 2010. Looks like a survey from the Dept of commerce and they are using the census bureau to collect the data.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
ossipago
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by ossipago »

The ACS is a follow-up detailed survey that goes out to a limited number of households each year. It is very thorough, but provides extremely useful information for various types of social and demographic analyses. I do believe you're required to fill it out by law (see https://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_th ... ty_survey/), and it's just bad luck (or good, depending on your perspective) that you were randomly selected (true random, as the census statisticians are good at what they do).
sscritic
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by sscritic »

I guess you could use google or go to the US Census Bureau to learn more. They might even have a page with the title "Why should you participate?"

P.S. to Steve: Where do you think the Census Bureau is located? The Treasury?
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NerdGirl
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by NerdGirl »

I googled a bit and looked like I DO have to fill it out. However, I don't see how they can penalize me for "guessing" a little. I've already been working for at least half an hour steadily.

They want to know if we're blind or deaf and so many other things! I'm kind of glad one son is away at college - I get to skip him!
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by sschullo »

sscritic wrote:I guess you could use google or go to the US Census Bureau to learn more. They might even have a page with the title "Why should you participate?"

P.S. to Steve: Where do you think the Census Bureau is located? The Treasury?
sscritic,
Huh? What difference does it make? Since the OP referenced both I was guessing that treasury wants some data and for whatever reason asked the census bureau to collect it.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
sscritic
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by sscritic »

sschullo wrote:
sscritic wrote:I guess you could use google or go to the US Census Bureau to learn more. They might even have a page with the title "Why should you participate?"

P.S. to Steve: Where do you think the Census Bureau is located? The Treasury?
sscritic,
Huh? What difference does it make? Since the OP referenced both I was guessing that treasury wants some data and for whatever reason asked the census bureau to collect it.
The OP doesn't mention treasury, at least I can't see it.
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NerdGirl
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by NerdGirl »

Can't they just ask the IRS for the financial stuff?
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by Mel Lindauer »

I got this stupid thing too, and in the Q&A it states:
Do I have to answer the question the the American Community Survey?

Yes. Your response to this survey is required by law (Title 13, U.S. Code, Sections 141 and 193). Title 13, as changed by Title 18, imposes a penalty for not responded. We estimate this survey will take about 40 minutes to complete.
I couldn't believe how stupid some of these questions were/are. Surprised they didn't ask how much toilet paper we use each day. Jeez.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
sscritic
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by sscritic »

NerdGirl wrote:Can't they just ask the IRS for the financial stuff?
That wouldn't be the IRS, that would be the Treasury Department. :)
WVUGuy275
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by WVUGuy275 »

NerdGirl wrote:Do I REALLY have to fill this out? Why would they possibly need this detailed information? I thought a census was "how many people live at this address?" and that would be it!
Yes, your response is required by law. That being said, it's amazing how much stuff looks like junk mail and winds up in the trash.
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Archie Sinclair
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by Archie Sinclair »

This is a civic duty. You get to live in the United States of America, and I'm sorry if sometimes that means you have to fill out some forms. I'm sure that there are fewer forms in Somalia.
rokidtoo
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by rokidtoo »

WVUGuy275 wrote:Yes, your response is required by law. That being said, it's amazing how much stuff looks like junk mail and winds up in the trash.
I don't see that it is required by law. The Census Bureau employees are bound under penalty of law to not disclose the provided information. Where does it say, your response is required by law?

The "Why Should I Participate" section states that: "The information that the Census Bureau collects helps to determine how more than $400 billion dollars of federal funding each year is spent on infrastructure and services."

If you don't want your community to receive or properly spend federal infrastructure money, ignore the survey. ----Jim
ossipago
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by ossipago »

rokidtoo wrote:
I don't see that it is required by law. The Census Bureau employees are bound under penalty of law to not disclose the provided information. Where does it say, your response is required by law? ... ----Jim
Look under "Why You are Selected":

"Do I have to answer these questions?

Yes. You are legally obligated to answer all the questions, as accurately as you can.

The relevant laws are Title 18 U.S.C Section 3571 and Section 3559, which amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221.

Your answers are important. As part of a sample, you represent many other people. Find out how each question helps your community, your state, and the federal government in questions on the form and why we ask."
Atilla
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by Atilla »

The constitutional purpose of the census every 10 years is to determine proportional representation in Congress. When I get the big paper form every 10 years I fill out how many people live in the house, who we are and that's it. The rest stays blank.

I'd ignore what you got sent. It's unnecessary, not called for by the Constitution and none of their damm bidness. 8-)
rokidtoo
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by rokidtoo »

ossipago wrote:
rokidtoo wrote:
I don't see that it is required by law. The Census Bureau employees are bound under penalty of law to not disclose the provided information. Where does it say, your response is required by law? ... ----Jim
Look under "Why You are Selected":

"Do I have to answer these questions?

Yes. You are legally obligated to answer all the questions, as accurately as you can.

The relevant laws are Title 18 U.S.C Section 3571 and Section 3559, which amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221.

Your answers are important. As part of a sample, you represent many other people. Find out how each question helps your community, your state, and the federal government in questions on the form and why we ask."
I stand corrected.----Jim
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Archie Sinclair
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by Archie Sinclair »

rokidtoo wrote:I don't see that it is required by law. The Census Bureau employees are bound under penalty of law to not disclose the provided information. Where does it say, your response is required by law?
13 USC § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers wrote:(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
Note that giving false information is treated as worse than giving no information at all.
sscritic
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by sscritic »

Archie Sinclair wrote:
13 USC § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers wrote:(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
Note that giving false information is treated as worse than giving no information at all.
So if there are 500 questions and you ignore 321 of them and give false answers to 173 questions, what is your fine?

Who said math isn't relevant to everyday life?
rokidtoo
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Re: census - seriously?

Post by rokidtoo »

Archie Sinclair wrote:
rokidtoo wrote:I don't see that it is required by law. The Census Bureau employees are bound under penalty of law to not disclose the provided information. Where does it say, your response is required by law?
13 USC § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers wrote:(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
Note that giving false information is treated as worse than giving no information at all.
Again, I stand corrected. Perhaps, the Census Bureau should have stated in the "Why Should I Participate" section that it is against the law not to participate. After seeing Mel's post, I searched for it in the FAQ section.

However, I also agree that participation provides valuable information to assist the government at all levels to make good allocation decisions. -----Jim
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