Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

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Boglenaut
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Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Boglenaut »

So, as a good consumer I have all 6 Star Wars movies on DVD. Now my son (almost 6) has been playing Star Wars video games and would like to see the movies with me. My question: What order should he see them?

I am thinking in release order. The original episodes have simpler plots and would be easier for a very young viewer to follow. So IV, V, VI, I, II, III.

Any contrary suggestions?
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by magicmom »

Absolutely release order. I'll bring the popcorn, what time?
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Supermercado »

I'd consider machete order: http://static.nomachetejuggling.com/machete_order.html if I knew someone that had never seen them before. If not this order, release order.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by tludwig23 »

I agree that you should watch them in release order.

I'd change the title of this thread from "Franchise" to "Hexalogy".
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Boglenaut »

One complicating factor is he's playing "Lego Star Wars III - The Clone Wars" with his friend, so he's been introduced to a young Obi Wan and Yoda, as well as a lot of general concepts.

The "Machete Order" does look interesting given the first movie was boring. But we can watch IV and V before deciding. By then he may lose interest anyway, at least for a while. So Release Order seems like a good start. If he starts with Jar Jar he may be forever scarred.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by bottlecap »

Consider never letting them watch the last three. They will never get that time back! Lucas should have really stopped at two.

Interesting issue, though.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by nisiprius »

Release order. It's not as if the I, II, III actually contain much in them that make it any easier or more enjoyable to watch IV, V, VI. It's not a roman fleuve. You don't need to listen to Beethoven's First Symphony before you listen to the Ninth, either. There are some authors, mystery writers for example, who go on writing series books endlessly; if you really like the author you'll go on reading and enjoying the later ones even though they're nowhere near as good as the early ones (e.g. the Sherlock Holmes stories after his apparent "death" at Reichenbach Falls).
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by White Coat Investor »

The best reason to watch them in release order is because the lightsaber duels get better in each movie. Can you imagine watching that hokey Darth Vader/Obi-Wan "rematch" crap in IV after seeing the epic battle in III?

"You shouldn't have come back Obi-Wan" seems so ominous, then it's like something out of a geriatric clinic after that.

I don't see why people are so down on the first three. Jar jar is no worse than 3CPO. The effects are far better in I-III and the story is at least as interesting...well, except for reducing The Force to a medical condition. And the crappy acting from Anakin in II. But it isn't much worse than Luke's acting in IV.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

Boglenaut wrote:So, as a good consumer I have all 6 Star Wars movies on DVD. Now my son (almost 6) has been playing Star Wars video games and would like to see the movies with me. My question: What order should he see them?

I am thinking in release order. The original episodes have simpler plots and would be easier for a very young viewer to follow. So IV, V, VI, I, II, III.

Any contrary suggestions?
Release order. Because after the first 3 (ie IV, V & VI) they go rapidly down hill. In fact that is true of episode VI in my view, too.

Of the spinouts, the 2 series of animated 'Clone Wars' (the first two series, ie the ones which were animated, not computer generated-- the CG Clone Wars movie was awful) by Genady Tartovsky (who also did 'Samurai Jack'-- violent but a cut above almost any other animated childrens adventure cartoon I have seen in terms of thoughtful content), were quite good. They were intended by Lucas as bridge pieces between the episodes of I and II, II and III, filling in the 'back story'.

Hopefully some day your son will read the Timothy Zahn 'Heirs to the Empire' series which takes us past episode VI (more likely when he is about 12-14). Grand Admiral Thrawn out baddies Vader. The Imperial Assassin, Mara Jade is a truly memorable character. There are also some collections of the graphic novels.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by kellyfj »

IMNSHO Machete order makes the most sense for all the reasons that person describes.
http://static.nomachetejuggling.com/machete_order.html

Ultimately the best story is that of Luke - not Anakin and anyway Episode I is atrocious and totally missable.
The drama in Episode V where we discover Vader is Luke's father is all the more shocking if we have not seen II or III . . .
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by nisiprius »

Of course, I didn't like Star Wars when it came out in 1977. (In 1977 everyone just called it Star Wars. It wasn't necessary to call it Episode IV or "A New Hope," and I don't think many people even noticed those on the title screen).

And I still don't like any of it that much. I am a child of the hard SF era, and it is deeply disturbing to me to see
  • spacecraft that don't just have wings, but wings that work in vacuum;
  • an imperial battleship, or I guess "star destroyer" to the cognoscenti, that seems to have a hull and a superstructure;
  • the sight and sound :oops: :oops: :oops: of Alderaan exploding reaching us with no delay;
  • R2D2 being referred to as an "android" although he does not resemble a human. (Even C3PO is not an android; before Star Wars the term meant something--someone--like R. Daneel Olivaw, a robot that could be mistaken for a human;)
etc. etc. etc.

I mean, I don't understand the engineering rationale behind the design of USS Enterprise NCC-1701, but at least it looks like it was given some thought; it is not just a P-80 fighter or a battleship Nagato tarted up in new clothing. I have my problems with 2001: A Space Odyssey but at least it is about science fiction. The Star Wars franchise has always seemed to me to be about nothing but old movies.

I do love the John Williams score. I think it's right up there with Sir Arthur Bliss' music for Things to Come, maybe even Prokofiev's music for Aleksandr Nevsky.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by JSMill »

I would strongly consider forgetting about the prequels and watch only the original three. Mr Plinkett's reviews of the prequels provide thoughtful and technical analysis of why the prequels pale compare to the original movies

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star ... -the-sith/
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by White Coat Investor »

All right, I'm convinced. Machete order it is. IV, V, II, III, VI then I if you want.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

I must admit I cannot see a strong rationale for 'machete order' over IV, V, VI

IV V and VI were made as an integrated series-- the second 2 are really one movie, broken in the middle. The agony of waiting for the VI after the Vth, for 2 years, that I remember well.

I-III are just so jarringly different in style.

Really watch IV-VI and then watch 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' which is close in tone to them. The 2 sequels of RLA are inferior, although the 3rd better than the 2nd (which is deliberately grotesque in parts), and touches on some of the same themes (the relationship between, and rivalry between, son and long absent famous father).

The late, great Leigh Brackett wrote V (The Empire Strikes Back) out of Joseph Campbell's 'Hero with 1000 Faces'. It is the best of them (albeit not a complete movie). Had she lived, who knows, maybe episode VI would have been a better movie. That plus of course Alec Guinness in the first one-- he demanded that he not be credited for the second (episode V) as I recall.

Patrick Stewart (Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek The Next Generation, Professor Charles Xavier in X Men) was once asked whether Star Trek was a comedown for a man who had (and still does) acted with the Royal Shakespeare Company. To which he replied 'maybe all that time at RSC was simply preparation for my greatest role, as Jean Luc Picard'.

And so maybe for Sir Alec Guinness, his most famous role would be in a B movie-- just the world's biggest B movie. That might not have pleased him, but it's how the dice fell.

I think his greatest role is probably George Smiley in the TV miniseries 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy' by John Le Carre.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by interplanetjanet »

Valuethinker wrote:And so maybe for Sir Alec Guinness, his most famous role would be in a B movie-- just the world's biggest B movie. That might not have pleased him, but it's how the dice fell.

I think his greatest role is probably George Smiley in the TV miniseries 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy' by John Le Carre.
I think that his work in "Kind Hearts and Coronets" is probably underappreciated. Not necessarily his zenith, but he managed to combine such a range of character expression within one movie - not surprising when you consider how many roles he played!
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by nisiprius »

I saw Sir Alec Guinness live on Broadway playing Dylan. (Thomas, not Bob!) A silly thing, but the thing I remember was that there was a scene in which Dylan Thomas is speaking publicly, and is interrupted by a photographer's camera flash, and fixes him with a cold stare and says "Don't. Do. That." Afterwards, I spoke to him very briefly backstage and found out that it was not part of the play at all--some jerk in the audience had taken a flash picture, and Guinness handled it so completely in character that it seemed to be part of the play.

The Bridge on the River Kwai is what I remember him for best. It came out when I was maybe 11 or so and I thought it was the greatest movie ever made, watched it three times on its run in the neighborhood theatre.

There is plenty for which Sir Alec Guinness will be remembered besides Star Wars.

Still, as the only actor in the movie, Guinness does give the place a touch of class.

No, he's not the only one--who is the actor behind the muppet who plays Yoda? Frank Oz. OK, two actors. Guinness and Oz.

Harrison Ford is always playing Harrison Ford, he is a great screen personality but not an actor. What's-his-name, Mark something, the guy who plays Luke, is just someone who hits is marks and delivers his lines accurately. Carrie Fisher might be an actress, hard to tell, as she was not given an actual character to play if you know what I mean.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Yam the Bomb »

I've only seen one Star Wars movie. It was one where Luke Sky Walkers dad (or somebody) was a little kid. He was racing in some kind of flying race car. I think it was the first one that Natalie Portman was in. I didn't care for it.

For some reason the movies like that and ET and most any huge budget movie I just don't get in to. I did like Avaitar though.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Default User BR »

Valuethinker wrote:The late, great Leigh Brackett wrote V (The Empire Strikes Back) out of Joseph Campbell's 'Hero with 1000 Faces'.
Wikipedia has a decent write-up on the Campbell book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_with_1000_faces


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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by JupiterJones »

nisiprius wrote:(In 1977 everyone just called it Star Wars. It wasn't necessary to call it Episode IV or "A New Hope," and I don't think many people even noticed those on the title screen).
Actually, we didn't notice them because they weren't even there back then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_ ... ning_crawl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jK-jZo6xjY

Anyway, I don't really understand the question. The three Star Wars films were released in order and should be watched that way: "Star Wars", then "Empire", then "Jedi", then you're done. What's the problem?

(I have heard some confused individuals making reference to some sort of "prequel" movies, but I can assure you that they do not exist. Really, they don't. Just put the thought of them out of your mind and don't trouble yourself with such crazy ideas again. Same goes for the Holiday Special--that's just a cruel urban legend. Oh, and the "Matrix" sequels never happened either.)

Besides, the real question isn't one of order but of version. You could probably get away with the Special Edition for "Empire" and "Jedi", but you really should show your son the untouched first movie. You don't want him growing up thinking that Greedo shot first, do you?

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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by interplanetjanet »

JupiterJones wrote:Same goes for the Holiday Special--that's just a cruel urban legend.
Parts of it I think actually cross the threshold of "badness" to the point where you can appreciate them in a "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ironic sort of way. Parts. Carrie Fisher does look more than a little...elevated, through much of it, which I can almost understand given the subject matter.

I remember the Mark Hamill episode of the Muppet Show. Not one of the best but Gonzo as Vader cracked me up.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by investnoob »

JupiterJones wrote: ...(I have heard some confused individuals making reference to some sort of "prequel" movies, but I can assure you that they do not exist. Really, they don't. Just put the thought of them out of your mind and don't trouble yourself with such crazy ideas again. Same goes for the Holiday Special--that's just a cruel urban legend. Oh, and the "Matrix" sequels never happened either.)...
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by NateH »

to introduce star wars to an adult, i would use Machete order.

but since your son is 6 y.o. and is already aware of the Clone Wars, i would start with II and go III, IV, V, VI from there. He already knows who Anakin & Obi Wan are, so starting with Luke will be way too confusing. Not to mention the lame 1977 special effects.

BTW, i still don't let my son (now 7) watch episode III without my fast-forwarding through the sandpeople massacre and the scene at the jedi temple with the younglings. I'd rather get a full night's sleep.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by LazyNihilist »

I never got star wars. :|

Blade Runner and 2001 on the other hand were epics. I hope they don't make sequels out of these and spoil them.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by bru »

I was just discussing this with my wife. Our son is 4.5 yo and knows nothing about SW. He's in to Thomas the Tank Engine and "Cars".

As someone who saw the first movie in '77 with my father (who never became a fan) I look forward to the time I can share the experience with my son. I love the line in the linked article about the big reveal and the look on the children's faces. I hope the secret can be kept from him so I can witness that look. I still remember the moment we were in the theater watching The Empire Strikes Back (and being a bit confused by it being called Episode V) and the big reveal came. It's something that I will remember forever. In this day and age of the internet and mass communicaton there is no way something like that could ever be kept secret and thus that experience could never be duplicated.

Back to the topic, I like the idea of the machete order but would probably want him to watch all six (and by then who knows how many more Disney will have put out) so I would go IV, V, VI, I, II, III.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by sscritic »

Ewoks people, Ewoks. When the Ewoks made for TV movies came out, my children were 10 (11) and 6(7). They did not watch Star Wars (the movies), but did have Star Wars light sabers and lunch boxes. The real question is where can you find Ewoks at a reasonable price.*

Age appropriate people, age appropriate. I still remember taking my son out of a theatre when he was 4 because he was crying so hard during ET. It was my mistake to take him. Cute and cute dying are not the same thing.

* It turns out it is not so hard; Hasbro has updated releases, some of which are quite recent.

http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Ha ... 146647.asp
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by sscritic »

I really think a lot of you have forgotten what it means to be a kid. A kid doesn't want to watch a movie; a kid wants merchandise. Which action figure will come in his Happy Meal at McDonald's is the real question. Star Wars won't mean the same to your child as it did to you if McDonald's and Hasbro aren't advertising on every kids show (and most adult shows). The real goal of a child is to satisfy his marketing induced lust.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by diasurfer »

investnoob wrote: These are not the movies you are looking for...(waves hand).
:D Great line!

Personally I'm interested in getting blu-rays of the untouched originals. For a new viewer, I like the idea of machete order. My oldest is only 3.5 so I wasn't planning to watch them with her for awhile. Unfortunately, boys in her preschool class are already Star Wars fanatics and she is asking to seem them. I suspect this will be the first of many times we'll have to deal with this sort of issue.

On an unrelated rant, when my kids watch TV, it's usually on-demand program from comcast. We can select from a large number of age appropriate shows from PBS, Nick, Disney, etc. When I'm going through the menus to pick an episode, in the upper right corner of the screen, comcast plays previews from movies on their pay per view. A couple of days ago I'm dialing up an episode of Big Bird, when something like a modern version of The Exorcist was being previewed. If featured convulsing feet and some sort of brain goo squirting out of the persons head. I turned off the TV as quick as possible, but not quick enough. Daddy, why is that lady's feet shaking? Ridiculous. Another reason to cancel the whole thing.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

LazyNihilist wrote:I never got star wars. :|

Blade Runner and 2001 on the other hand were epics. I hope they don't make sequels out of these and spoil them.
Don't forget Forbidden Planet, the classic 1950s SciFi movie, with special effects that chill, even now.

Ridley Scott has, I think, a prequel to Blade Runner in the works a la Prometheus to Alien relationship.

I read an interview with him once about Blade Runner, and it was amply clear he didn't really understand the work of art he had created-- he kept focusing on the style and the impact of the style. It is likely the prequel will be artless.

It comes down, I think, to the brilliant scriptwriting. The film itself is an homage (to the point of parody) of film noir, with brilliant visual design (Trumbull or Dykstra?). What we are really watching here is Raymond Chandler/ Dashiell Hammett, but set in Los Angeles 2020. The Director's Cut (scenes like the detective's office) makes that even more clear.

Star Wars, as Nisi points out, does not really live on that continuum. It is not a Science Fiction film. It is Cowboys and Indians in space-- a rerun of the 1930s serials Lucas used to enjoy as a kid. Raiders of the Lost Ark more directly so.

We can admire the original Star Wars trilogy for what it was, but lament what it did to moviemaking== American cinema since then has increasingly been denominated by the search for the blockbuster, the kids movie dressed up in adult clothes.

That leads to all the pathologies we see now. The emphasis on the first weekend. The huge promotional budgets which squeeze out the number of films made and distributed. The very short periods films sit in cinema, since it's all about the watching and dating habits of 16-22 year olds.

For kids films, it is all about the co-merchandising. Pixar 'broke the mold' a bit: films like Monsters Inc and Wall-E (let me get this straight, the hero is a garbage robot on a deserted planet, with only a cockroach for a friend, and he doesn't even talk? And yet the first 45 minutes of that movie are sublime movie making-- and indeed one of the best Science Fiction films you will ever see). Now Pixar is part of the Disney Empire, I don't expect that to continue.

The result is 'adults' like me might notice a film that they might like to see, or hear about such a film from friends by word-of-mouth, yet it's gone from the cineplexes too fast for us to see it. I go to a theatre movie about twice a year, whereas once it would have been 20-25 times a year at least.

I did see 'Avengers {Assemble - in the UK}'. The world's most popular film to date, I believe. Which was an exemplar of all the pathologies-- pure popcorn, special effects etc. Not even some quality acting (Loki, Robert Downey Jr etc.) and Jos Whedon's slightly subversive take on things could save it. Pablum for the mind. Whedon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Serenity/ Firefly) is probably a better TV director anyways-- gives him more time to develop characters.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

NateH wrote:to introduce star wars to an adult, i would use Machete order.

but since your son is 6 y.o. and is already aware of the Clone Wars, i would start with II and go III, IV, V, VI from there. He already knows who Anakin & Obi Wan are, so starting with Luke will be way too confusing. Not to mention the lame 1977 special effects..
I have to say I think the 1977 special effects are still astounding, most especially on Tatooine, the desert planet. that may be simply my age, but I do remember the awe then, and I still feel it now.

Even the space stuff seems much more real than the Computer Generated stuff we use now.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by ThatGuy »

diasurfer wrote:Personally I'm interested in getting blu-rays of the untouched originals.
Consider Harmy's Despecialized Editions.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

Yam the Bomb wrote:I've only seen one Star Wars movie. It was one where Luke Sky Walkers dad (or somebody) was a little kid. He was racing in some kind of flying race car. I think it was the first one that Natalie Portman was in. I didn't care for it.

For some reason the movies like that and ET and most any huge budget movie I just don't get in to. I did like Avaitar though.
You are looking at the wrong end of the series.

It's the first one, ie episode IV (in the original format) and V (The Empire Strikes Back) that are amazing in their scope, pace and plot tension. The VI one (Return of the Jedi) is disappointing (but necessary, to complete the story: and it has Admiral Ackbar, I am sure the first truly alien general command officer in televised science fiction- -the visualization of space warfare (as derived from USN carrier warfare) is breathtaking).

The references to other films are also constant: Triumph of the Will (the celebration at the end of the first film), any WW2 aviation movie, various westerns etc.

The characters: Darth himself, Luke, the rivalry between Solo and Princess Leia, R2 D2 and C3po. Sir Alec Guinness-- you could watch him all day. Yoda when we first encounter him (Frank Oz).

The zinging one liners 'Let the Wookie win'. 'What an amazing new smell you have discovered'. etc.

It is, to be fair, a ripoff of a Samurai movie-- Kurosawa's 'The Hidden Fortress'.

Perhaps in penance, Lucas and Spielberg funded Kurosawa's later films, when no one in Japan would touch the director. Films like 'The 7 Samurai' and 'Ran' are among the greatest films of their type ever made.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

We should acknowledge here that Star Wars (IV, ie the first one) is a rip-off of Akiro Kirosawa's

The Hidden Fortress

and a fairly blatant one. The face-off between Toshiro Mifuni and his opponent, surrounded by a ring of Samurai, is the basis of the confrontation between Darth and Obi-Wan. The 2 bumbling thieves are none other than C3P0 and R2D2.

And, so, perhaps in penance, Lucas and Spielberg funded Kurosawa's later films, when no Japanese investor would touch him. That left us with sublime films like 'Ran'.

If you like this stuff, almost anything by Studio Ghibli, the Japanese animation studio, is good- -and very reminiscent of 'Indiana Jones'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_Ghibli


Miyazaki has a fascination with old planes (see Porco Rosso for example). His stuff is generally a long way from the ultra modern ultra violent stuff of most Japanese anime.

Start with Castle in the Sky and Porco Rosso, and you'll get the flavour. They vary (some are not even fantasy per se) and vary in quality, but they are art.

They are also genuine children's films, generally. Especially 'The Cat Returns' and 'My Neighbor Totoro' (the latter a personal favourite, about a girl with a sick mother who befriends the demons who live in the attic).
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

Confused wrote:As an adult who has never seen any of the series, people usually suggest 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3 to me. Of course, I'm never going to watch them because they seem so ridiculously stupid (and this might become a major problem when Disney releases some more and my in-laws, who are Star Wars fanatics, might actually realize that I've never seen any of the films).
Ahh no. They are not stupid. At least not the first two-- numbers 4 and 5.

From the moment when the opening screen rolls, and you are dragged right into the middle of a story ('Rebellion? Empire? Darth Vader? Princess Leia?) and the gun battle aboard the rebel courier in the first 3 minutes, the capture of Leia and the escape of the robots onto a desert world (still the best rendition of 'Dune' that there is-- better I think than the movie of that name), you are just dragged onto that screen for 2 hours. When the credits roll, you are left gagging (for more than 2 years!) for more-- the second one is even worse that way.

As Nisi points out, it's worth it for the John Williams score alone. That opening is iconic. Play it, and my mind goes straight back to March of 1977.

In them you will see 100 movies made before or since. But the combination of story and special effects, plus some absolutely superb acting (James Earl Jones majestic voice, Alec Guiness) makes these iconic.

They are adventure films. Westerns. Or, in fact, samurai movies in science fiction drag-- it's a remake of Kurosawa. But they are funny, exciting, moving at times. They are less stupid than James Bond flicks (of which I have seen most).
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by bpp »

Ah, Forbidden Planet. That was an immersive film, fully located in the future. I was a huge fan of that film as a teenager in the '70s, twenty years after it came out.

Star Wars was a blast when it came out. I have to admit to finding the sequels (Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) disappointing when they came out. Empire seemed to be jerking us around with the Battlestar Galactica beginning (ragtag rebel fleet, etc.) and cliffhanger ending (and Vader is Luke's father?? what is this, high school English class?), and Return just devolved to silliness with the Care Bears Ewoks. Oh, and now Leia and Luke are siblings, out of the blue. Yeah, ok. Needless to say, the "prequels" were even worse.

Regarding the "Hidden Fortress" (隠し砦の三悪人) parallels, I watched the latter a few years ago for the first time, knowing that Lucas claimed it as inspiration, but didn't really find that much in the way of parallels. Yes, I can see where the C3PO/R2D2 chemistry comes from, and the feisty princess character, but the plot wasn't really all that close. Maybe I need to see both films again some time and try to see the parallels.

My favorite Kurosawa films would probably be Rashomon and Yojimbo. Seven Samurai not bad. Ran is a decent King Lear remake.

Ghibli: Tonari no Totoro is a beautiful film, one I could watch any time either with kids or without, but I have to admit the other films leave me somewhat cold... in fact, many of them I find a bit too creepy for kids. Ponyo was maybe the next best one for kids, but just didn't quite have the same magic as Totoro, somehow.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by bottlecap »

Confused wrote:I tried giving it a shot once, when I was waiting for someone. I was sitting in the living room and one of the movies was there (I can't remember which one) and I popped it into the DVD player. The two robots knocked on a door and some eye-thing opened it, they went inside and some guy was stuck in the wall, and there was some giant slug king. I fastforwarded it a bit and some guy (might've been the guy that was stuck in the wall) was fighting some kind of monster (or maybe it was a dinosaur). Fastforwarded some more and there was a bunch of people flying around and falling into some kind of carnivorous sand-plant. I decided it was lame and never bothered with the franchise again.
Yeah, that was the Return of the Jedi, the last of the original series. It was not a good movie but, as someone else said, obligatory after watching the "first" two. One of the few things redeeming about the movie was that you knew and loved the main characters (and perhaps that it tied up some loose ends). You didn't have that benefit and I'm not surprised it turned you off. The good news is you can go watch the first two knowing they are immensely better. The even better news is that you stopped watching Return of the Jedi before it began to get even more "lame." The bad news is that after watching the first two, you will want to watch Return of the Jedi again and it will only be slightly less painful than the first time.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by JupiterJones »

And as long as we're talking about what Star Wars ripped off... er, "paid homage" to, let's not forget about John Williams' enormous debt to Erich Korngold.

An example

Another example

But that's sort of the point. "Star Wars" is meant to be a throwback to Flash Gordon serials, Samurai movies, Hollywood swashbuckler flicks, etc. You can lay all the Joseph Campbell on it you like, but in the end, it's a good time at the movies (that happens to have also become a cultural touchstone for anyone who was a kid in 1977).

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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by SSSS »

4
5
6

Then watch the Red Letter Media (Mr. Plinkett) reviews of 1, 2, and 3, but do not watch the actual movies. I've watched those reviews 10 times each and they are spectacular.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by RenoJay »

How are you going to answer the difficult questions about Luke making out with his sister?
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Default User BR »

Stars Wars is such a cultural icon that it's interesting to see how close it came to not happening at all.


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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by KyleAAA »

I vote release order. Episode I wasn't great but it wasn't horrible, either. There were some exciting moments.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by nisiprius »

I have a CD of Erich Korngold scores... good stuff, and not too familiar to me as the movies themselves were just a bit before my time. (The first movie I ever saw was Fred Astaire in The Royal Wedding).
JupiterJones wrote:And as long as we're talking about what Star Wars ripped off... er, "paid homage" to, let's not forget about John Williams' enormous debt to Erich Korngold.

An example
OK, I admit, the similarity is striking. No stronger than lots of such pairs, for example. ("The March of the Siamese Children" in "The King and I" and Grieg's "Wedding Day at Troldhaugen" really should have made Richard Rodgers blush...)
Well, gee, I don't know. Same musical vocabulary to be sure.

Hollywood has been mining the classical music genre for a long time, and John Williams I think owes as much to Richard Strauss as he does to Erich Korngold.

I bet there's a common ancestor to the Star Wars opening theme and King's Row somewhere in classical music. I just don't know it offhand.

Plus of course there's always the question of what's plagiarism, what's legitimate borrowing, what's cryptomnesia (unconscious plagiarism), and what's hommage.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by JSMill »

SSSS wrote:4
5
6

Then watch the Red Letter Media (Mr. Plinkett) reviews of 1, 2, and 3, but do not watch the actual movies. I've watched those reviews 10 times each and they are spectacular.
Yes, those are truly fantastic
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by interplanetjanet »

Valuethinker wrote:Perhaps in penance, Lucas and Spielberg funded Kurosawa's later films, when no one in Japan would touch the director. Films like 'The 7 Samurai' and 'Ran' are among the greatest films of their type ever made.
They are amazing. I also loved Yojimbo, the starkness of it *works*. Toshiro Mifune...just marvelous.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by LH »

Image
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by Valuethinker »

LH wrote:Image

Brilliant!
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Re: Star Wars Franchise - What Order?

Post by LazyNihilist »

Valuethinker wrote:
For kids films, it is all about the co-merchandising. Pixar 'broke the mold' a bit: films like Monsters Inc and Wall-E (let me get this straight, the hero is a garbage robot on a deserted planet, with only a cockroach for a friend, and he doesn't even talk? And yet the first 45 minutes of that movie are sublime movie making-- and indeed one of the best Science Fiction films you will ever see). Now Pixar is part of the Disney Empire, I don't expect that to continue.
Spot on. Wall-E 1st 45 minutes was stunning to say the least. One of the best ever.
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