It’s interesting to read about stereotypes based on an evolutionary/survival prospective by psychologists . Yes stereotypes in fact exist for a reason...”right or wrong”. How accurate ones perception of a particular stereotype is, or how beneficial it is in today’s world is a good question. How does it benefit me from a survival standpoint to think that all people driving Mercedes are just trying to impress me?...not sure on that one ....no I don’t care either way (at least I don’t think I do )
Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
It’s interesting to read about stereotypes based on an evolutionary/survival prospective by psychologists . Yes stereotypes in fact exist for a reason...”right or wrong”. How accurate ones perception of a particular stereotype is, or how beneficial it is in today’s world is a good question. How does it benefit me from a survival standpoint to think that all people driving Mercedes are just trying to impress me?...not sure on that one ....no I don’t care either way (at least I don’t think I do )
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I took the original comment to equate “for a reason” with “due to having a factual basis.”Carguy85 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:14 pm
It’s interesting to read about stereotypes based on an evolutionary/survival prospective by psychologists . Yes stereotypes in fact exist for a reason...”right or wrong”. How accurate ones perception of a particular stereotype is, or how beneficial it is in today’s world is a good question. How does it benefit me from a survival standpoint to think that all people driving Mercedes are just trying to impress me?...not sure on that one ....no I don’t care either way (at least I don’t think I do )
But sure, some stereotypes are pretty benign while others are clearly evil (or used to justify evil).
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I do recall some fairly interesting “millionaire next door” research regarding types of vehicles and how they are paid for...likewise there was some housing info that was pretty interesting as well. Plenty of research indicating people leveraging themselves to the brim to impress others with cars and homes. How does this info apply to real world benefit for anyone but the people selling to these folks...not really sure.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I’m curious which M car has been your favorite? That F90 M5 is a tempting daily driver with a modest 600hp.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Again sticking strictly to a relatively trivial stereotype like why someone buys a Mercedes (though buying a BMW is more of a whipping boy on this forum for some reason generally), and staying far away from actually sensitive ones, I don't 100% disagree with the original poster it could have a 'factual basis' to *some degree*. Again I think people of that attitude don't fully consider that their own envy (in many cases, and not saying it about that poster about whom I know nothing) of people who can easily afford those cars might warp their perception. It's more comforting to think the world consists merely of responsible people who realize buying those cars is bad for their long term financial health and irresponsible, vain people who don't realize it. That was implicit in the original poster's example, his brother has spent $10k's more cumulatively on Mercedes than he would have on Prius's...it assumes that matters much to his brother's financial situation. What it if doesn't.delamer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:27 pmI took the original comment to equate “for a reason” with “due to having a factual basis.”Carguy85 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:14 pmIt’s interesting to read about stereotypes based on an evolutionary/survival prospective by psychologists . Yes stereotypes in fact exist for a reason...”right or wrong”. How accurate ones perception of a particular stereotype is, or how beneficial it is in today’s world is a good question. How does it benefit me from a survival standpoint to think that all people driving Mercedes are just trying to impress me?...not sure on that one ....no I don’t care either way (at least I don’t think I do )
Last edited by JackoC on Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Late to the party, but I agree that a better definition of what qualifies as luxury is needed. Plus how long are you keeping the car? It's one think to buy/sell "luxury" calls every 5 years vs keeping them a long time.
I'm on my 2nd BMW, my first was a 330i that I bought new and kept for 13 years. I got a good deal because it was when they revamped the look of the 3 series, and I got the "old" look. My current BMW is a 230i, which is about 3 years old and will keep for another 10 years most likely.
Both of those cars I would not classify as luxury. Are they more expensive then a Civic? Sure. But if I had gotten a Camry or Accord, I probably only would have saved maybe $5,000 or so. Both my cars at the time were less expensive then many common SUV's that are ubiquitous, let alone all the crazy pickup trucks I see. $5k over 13 years isn't a big deal to me.
Luxury in my eyes would be like a 7/8 series BMW, or a Porsche, cars that are like $70,000+.
I'm on my 2nd BMW, my first was a 330i that I bought new and kept for 13 years. I got a good deal because it was when they revamped the look of the 3 series, and I got the "old" look. My current BMW is a 230i, which is about 3 years old and will keep for another 10 years most likely.
Both of those cars I would not classify as luxury. Are they more expensive then a Civic? Sure. But if I had gotten a Camry or Accord, I probably only would have saved maybe $5,000 or so. Both my cars at the time were less expensive then many common SUV's that are ubiquitous, let alone all the crazy pickup trucks I see. $5k over 13 years isn't a big deal to me.
Luxury in my eyes would be like a 7/8 series BMW, or a Porsche, cars that are like $70,000+.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
My last M5 was an F10. Great car, sorry it’s gone. I should have gotten a new F90 as it’s replacement but due to Covid, I was “stuck” at our lake house last winter and needed a SUV on short notice. Ended up with. X3M. Still may end up with a new M5. They have the total package for me, very comfortable, luxurious, fairly large with enormous trunk, almost super car performance. The competition model, comes in at 617 HP and a 0-60 time of about 3 secs.ASpenderInRecovery wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:36 pmI’m curious which M car has been your favorite? That F90 M5 is a tempting daily driver with a modest 600hp.
I still have a E64 M6 cab in Arizona. This one is a naturally aspired V10. Probably the one that is the most fun. But you need the right climate for a cab. Hardly ever put the top up.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Total package! I couldn't agree more. Apparently with launch control you can do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds which will smoke super cars 2-3x the price. Would you ever consider buying an M car used or is that a recipe for getting a lemon that's been thrashed?SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:58 amMy last M5 was an F10. Great car, sorry it’s gone. I should have gotten a new F90 as it’s replacement but due to Covid, I was “stuck” at our lake house last winter and needed a SUV on short notice. Ended up with. X3M. Still may end up with a new M5. They have the total package for me, very comfortable, luxurious, fairly large with enormous trunk, almost super car performance. The competition model, comes in at 617 HP and a 0-60 time of about 3 secs.ASpenderInRecovery wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:36 pmI’m curious which M car has been your favorite? That F90 M5 is a tempting daily driver with a modest 600hp.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
My M6 was one year old when I got it in 2008. Had as much mileage on it then as I’ve on it since. No major issues with the car. Expensive to maintain, sure, but it’s worth it to me.ASpenderInRecovery wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:06 amTotal package! I couldn't agree more. Apparently with launch control you can do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds which will smoke super cars 2-3x the price. Would you ever consider buying an M car used or is that a recipe for getting a lemon that's been thrashed?SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:58 amMy last M5 was an F10. Great car, sorry it’s gone. I should have gotten a new F90 as it’s replacement but due to Covid, I was “stuck” at our lake house last winter and needed a SUV on short notice. Ended up with. X3M. Still may end up with a new M5. They have the total package for me, very comfortable, luxurious, fairly large with enormous trunk, almost super car performance. The competition model, comes in at 617 HP and a 0-60 time of about 3 secs.ASpenderInRecovery wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:36 pmI’m curious which M car has been your favorite? That F90 M5 is a tempting daily driver with a modest 600hp.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Also late to this thread:
Volvo 240 18 yrs (purchased new)
Nissan Pathfinder 16 yrs (purchased used)
Nissan Rogue 4 yrs (new)
Volvo xc90 3yrs (new)
I consider the xc90 a luxury vehicle since it is top of line in Volvo SUVs. The buying catalyst was the purchase of a RV travel trailer which required more towing capacity. Both purchases together created some remorse at the time of purchase, however, I can say we have gotten our moneys worth in terms of enjoyment of both.
The XC90 is a dream to drive on a long road trip with or without the trailer. Without the trailer we have gone on many 2000-3000 road trips and did not feel road weary. We do not need this size vehicle except when we need to tow.
So, we are happy with the decision.
Volvo 240 18 yrs (purchased new)
Nissan Pathfinder 16 yrs (purchased used)
Nissan Rogue 4 yrs (new)
Volvo xc90 3yrs (new)
I consider the xc90 a luxury vehicle since it is top of line in Volvo SUVs. The buying catalyst was the purchase of a RV travel trailer which required more towing capacity. Both purchases together created some remorse at the time of purchase, however, I can say we have gotten our moneys worth in terms of enjoyment of both.
The XC90 is a dream to drive on a long road trip with or without the trailer. Without the trailer we have gone on many 2000-3000 road trips and did not feel road weary. We do not need this size vehicle except when we need to tow.
So, we are happy with the decision.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Did you do a tally? Are you sure the same ones aren't encouraging the watches and the cars? There has been plenty of criticism here, as well.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
My 2002 E39 M5 has about 150k miles on it and hasn't had any major issues. I did a complete suspension refresh (shocks, control arms, bushings etc) as BMW suspensions tend to start feeling tired after about 100k miles or so of use but otherwise it has been rock solid. My 98 M3 with 160k miles also has been good.ASpenderInRecovery wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:06 amTotal package! I couldn't agree more. Apparently with launch control you can do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds which will smoke super cars 2-3x the price. Would you ever consider buying an M car used or is that a recipe for getting a lemon that's been thrashed?SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:58 amMy last M5 was an F10. Great car, sorry it’s gone. I should have gotten a new F90 as it’s replacement but due to Covid, I was “stuck” at our lake house last winter and needed a SUV on short notice. Ended up with. X3M. Still may end up with a new M5. They have the total package for me, very comfortable, luxurious, fairly large with enormous trunk, almost super car performance. The competition model, comes in at 617 HP and a 0-60 time of about 3 secs.ASpenderInRecovery wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:36 pmI’m curious which M car has been your favorite? That F90 M5 is a tempting daily driver with a modest 600hp.
The car I've had the most trouble with, but it hasn't really been that bad either is my 2003 330xi. I bought that one in rough shape and it wasn't well cared of by the prior owner, but I got it fairly cheap. A lot of the issues it had were just due to deferred maintenance and they were items I could easily fix by watching YouTube videos and the replacement parts were fairly cheap. Even though it wasn't well cared for, the major mechanicals are in excellent shape. I've got 190k miles on it, drive it regularly, and just drove it half way across the country with now worries or issues at all. I wanted to check the health of the engine so I did a compression test and found that the compression figures were very close to the original spec for that engine, so even with a car that hasn't been treated properly over 20 years, the engine is extremely healthy.
I'd have no hesitation buying a used M car as a daily driver. Most of the time, they are better cared for then their non-M equivalents and they are more robust because many of the components are overbuilt to accommodate the increased power. There are some exceptions to this...E60 M5 has one of the worst most unreliable engines BMW ever built. E90 M3 also has a fatal engine flaw with the rod bearings, but it can be fixed if you dont wait until its too late. The E46 M3 needs to have its valves adjusted every 30k miles, but as long as you do that, there's not much to be concerned about with that one. Most of the M cars aside from these three are extremely solid.
Know the seller, and make sure to get a PPI, then have fun.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I don’t have an argument with what you say (except maybe about BMW being more of a whipping boy than Mercedes on the forum ).JackoC wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:33 amAgain sticking strictly to a relatively trivial stereotype like why someone buys a Mercedes (though buying a BMW is more of a whipping boy on this forum for some reason generally), and staying far away from actually sensitive ones, I don't 100% disagree with the original poster it could have a 'factual basis' to *some degree*. Again I think people of that attitude don't fully consider that their own envy (in many cases, and not saying it about that poster about whom I know nothing) of people who can easily afford those cars might warp their perception. It's more comforting to think the world consists merely of responsible people who realize buying those cars is bad for their long term financial health and irresponsible, vain people who don't realize it. That was implicit in the original poster's example, his brother has spent $10k's more cumulatively on Mercedes than he would have on Prius's...it assumes that matters much to his brother's financial situation. What it if doesn't.delamer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:27 pmI took the original comment to equate “for a reason” with “due to having a factual basis.”Carguy85 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:14 pmIt’s interesting to read about stereotypes based on an evolutionary/survival prospective by psychologists . Yes stereotypes in fact exist for a reason...”right or wrong”. How accurate ones perception of a particular stereotype is, or how beneficial it is in today’s world is a good question. How does it benefit me from a survival standpoint to think that all people driving Mercedes are just trying to impress me?...not sure on that one ....no I don’t care either way (at least I don’t think I do )
I took issue with the blanket statement: “it is a stereotype and they exist for a reason.”
That wasn’t nuanced or qualified, in terms of car-buying or much more important issues where stereotyping can do real harm.
If the poster had said “It’s a stereotype and has some merit in this situation,” I would have had no objection. I don’t doubt that some people buy expensive cars for status purposes. It’s the “everyone knows that anyone who buys a luxury car is just showing off” mantra that I’m tired of hearing.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Right. Almost all the “spending” threads are worthless. Spending is personal! Spending depends on taste, personality, means, background, environment and lots more. Why anyone would care what strangers on the internet think about these kinds of things, is beyond me.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
+1. We can share our own experiences, but everybody else's opinions should be meaningless when making your own purchasing decisions. I tend to have very simple tastes and wouldn't buy these things (high-end cars or watches or...) myself, but why should that matter to you? "Can I afford this?" is one thing, but the threads asking permission are just odd.SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:45 amRight. Almost all the “spending” threads are worthless. Spending is personal! Spending depends on taste, personality, means, background, environment and lots more. Why anyone would care what strangers on the internet think think about these kinds of things, is beyond me.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I agree with you.... BUT...SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:45 amRight. Almost all the “spending” threads are worthless. Spending is personal! Spending depends on taste, personality, means, background, environment and lots more. Why anyone would care what strangers on the internet think about these kinds of things, is beyond me.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
There's a ton of advertising and social media pressuring people to spend spend spend out there.
This website can be useful because it showcases a bunch of rich people who don't waste money. In fact, many of us are rich BECAUSE we are thrifty.
"The millionaire next door" book helped me in the same way.
Yes, for established Bogleheads, spend what you want. For people new to the site, seeing pushback in these threads might actually be useful.
It wouldn't be good for a new Boglehead to see a spending thread where every single post was "Oh, yeah, my $100k car makes me happy. Best thing I ever bought!"
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Yes, but the most likely advice given here is “don’t spend much money”. While good advice in a general sense, not so much in a specific sense. The “can I afford” threads are especially problematic. The usual response is yes you can afford it, but I wouldn’t do it.HomerJ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:34 amI agree with you.... BUT...SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:45 amRight. Almost all the “spending” threads are worthless. Spending is personal! Spending depends on taste, personality, means, background, environment and lots more. Why anyone would care what strangers on the internet think about these kinds of things, is beyond me.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
There's a ton of advertising and social media pressuring people to spend spend spend out there.
This website can be useful because it showcases a bunch of rich people who don't waste money. In fact, many of us are rich BECAUSE we are thrifty.
"The millionaire next door" book helped me in the same way.
Yes, for established Bogleheads, spend what you want. For people new to the site, seeing pushback in these threads might actually be useful.
It wouldn't be good for a new Boglehead to see a spending thread where every single post was "Oh, yeah, my $100k car makes me happy. Best thing I ever bought!"
I guess this isn’t the worst thing, but for a long retired, 71 year old, very comfortably FI, it gets a little tiresome. I think the best solution for me is not to read these threads, but there is something that pulls me in. Like looking at a car crash maybe?
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
It's unclear from this thread about what people even mean by luxury. Some people are talking about used BMWs while others are talking about $100K cars.
Anything above basic transportation can be considered luxury to some extent. If I buy a Camry for $25K when a Chevy Spark could get me from point A to point B for $15K have I chosen luxury? What if instead of the Camry I purchased a gently used Lexus or Acura for $35K? I look at it as basic transportation as the base case, and how much one wants to spend above that for other wants.
Anything above basic transportation can be considered luxury to some extent. If I buy a Camry for $25K when a Chevy Spark could get me from point A to point B for $15K have I chosen luxury? What if instead of the Camry I purchased a gently used Lexus or Acura for $35K? I look at it as basic transportation as the base case, and how much one wants to spend above that for other wants.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
It is all about context. Someone just starting out, almost nothing saved, even with a lets say $250k/yr income should maybe think long and hard about buying a brand new expensive upkeep luxury vehicle or watch for that matter. Someone who is well established financially can do whatever they want. Most people who became rich slowly over time through saving, investing and building wealth already know what they can and can't afford.SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:49 amYes, but the most likely advice given here is “don’t spend much money”. While good advice in a general sense, not so much in a specific sense. The “can I afford” threads are especially problematic. The usual response is yes you can afford it, but I wouldn’t do it.HomerJ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:34 amI agree with you.... BUT...SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:45 amRight. Almost all the “spending” threads are worthless. Spending is personal! Spending depends on taste, personality, means, background, environment and lots more. Why anyone would care what strangers on the internet think about these kinds of things, is beyond me.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
There's a ton of advertising and social media pressuring people to spend spend spend out there.
This website can be useful because it showcases a bunch of rich people who don't waste money. In fact, many of us are rich BECAUSE we are thrifty.
"The millionaire next door" book helped me in the same way.
Yes, for established Bogleheads, spend what you want. For people new to the site, seeing pushback in these threads might actually be useful.
It wouldn't be good for a new Boglehead to see a spending thread where every single post was "Oh, yeah, my $100k car makes me happy. Best thing I ever bought!"
I guess this isn’t the worst thing, but for a long retired, 71 year old, very comfortably FI, it gets a little tiresome. I think the best solution for me is not to read these threads, but there is something that pulls me in. Like looking at a car crash maybe?
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: |
viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Agreed that people generally seem to be able to rational expensive car purchases. But, a luxury car inarguably does certain things better than an econobox (road noise reduction, more comfortable seats..) while a $5000 watch is hopefully made with really nice materials, but ultimately doesn't keep time better or to the layman look nicer than a $300 watch.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I bought a 2012 Lexus GX used in 2018. It’s the base model, so I don’t have to worry about the air suspension failing. I bought it after undergoing treatment for leukemia and a bone marrow transplant. Once I was healthy, it was was an “I didn’t die” gift to myself. I actually looked for a 4runner but the price on the GX was within $1k of a similar year/mileage 4R. Since they’re basically the same car, I opted for the air conditioned seats and quieter cabin. The gas mileage isn’t great, but I knew that going in. The really surprising thing for me is not liking the stigma that comes with it. It has been garaged and well cared for, so it looks like it could be new, except it doesn’t have the giant new grille. I don’t have a burning desire to continue buying a luxury brand, I probably won’t, but I don’t regret this one.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
The cars I've owned have all been economy brands- Toyota, Mazda, and now Hyundai. I've bought new and driven for 10+ years.
On the flip side, my wife has only ever driven luxury brands- Acura and Lexus before we were married, and now Volvo. She also buys new and drives for 10+ years.
I am considering making the move to a luxury brand with my next vehicle (likely 3+ yrs away). I enjoy driving my wife's Volvo, and could see myself in a nicer car one day. But for now, I am enjoying the ability to use 87 gas and not having to stress over door dings on my old Hyundai
On the flip side, my wife has only ever driven luxury brands- Acura and Lexus before we were married, and now Volvo. She also buys new and drives for 10+ years.
I am considering making the move to a luxury brand with my next vehicle (likely 3+ yrs away). I enjoy driving my wife's Volvo, and could see myself in a nicer car one day. But for now, I am enjoying the ability to use 87 gas and not having to stress over door dings on my old Hyundai
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Would be interesting to track if there's many or any people trashing $5k watch purchases who support 'luxury'* car purchases. Maybe. My impression it's the same people criticizing both. If I post on watch threads I might note that I personally would probably never buy a $5k watch (my expensive watch cost ~$300 and it was a gift ) though I have bought $60k cars and am actively considering a nearly $100k one, nor would I rule out ever buying much more expensive ones. I don't think that's hypocritical. I find value in relatively expensive performance cars, to some degree, I don't in expensive watches (though who knows if that might change). And I completely accept that argument why *other people* wouldn't get expensive cars they can really afford. But it's zero reason for me not to get one. Again I think the understated effect is people who can't really afford those cars and are more comfortable thinking about the people who also can't really afford them but stretch to buy them than they are thinking about people who can easily afford them. That doesn't come in as much with $5k watches the great majority of people can afford if it's a true once in a lifetime (also since good watches last indefinitely there's less reason to argue the purchase of one will lead to the purchase of many...though that argument is also made on watch threads, or even that buying expensive watches will lead to buying expensive cars..it might even lead to dancing eventually ).simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
*less closely defined. Some posts always try to 'negotiate' this, eg. 'a BMW 230i isn't really a luxury car'. I guess maybe it's not *that* far from the average new car price (mid $30k's IIRC). And I've said my M2 wasn't a 'luxury' car on the basis of whisper quiet and pillowy ride, it's notably less soft and fuzzy than its 230i sibling, though on price it's farther from the average car. Anyway it's like arguing what's 'upper income', and cars don't even have the arbitrary benchmarks we use, generally from the political world, for 'upper income'.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I'm still driving my 18 year old Mazda, because it's everything I want in a car, and also because I hardly ever drive anyway. My longboard collection, on the other hand, is beginning to get embarassingly large. But I'm only 62, so who knows what the future may hold.
As others have noted, consumption is a personal thing.
As others have noted, consumption is a personal thing.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
My wife and I have went up in spending on autos as our salaries grew and we could comfortably afford doing so. But I define that the same way as a typical boglehead would, which means that I can easily buy whatever car I'm getting with cash paid in full.
But I'm not one of those either afraid to spend money nor am I trying to enter the contest to be the richest in the graveyard. As I make, and save more, I'm probably going to spend more, but in a conservative fashion. And i'll probably use a mild draw into principle method in retirement, so I'll buy whatever doing so buys me.
But I'm not one of those either afraid to spend money nor am I trying to enter the contest to be the richest in the graveyard. As I make, and save more, I'm probably going to spend more, but in a conservative fashion. And i'll probably use a mild draw into principle method in retirement, so I'll buy whatever doing so buys me.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
We've not really switched, but practicality and luxury intersected in our CPO Tesla Model S purchase due to how inexpensive it is to fuel (especially at time-of-use overnight rates) even compared to a Prius. I understand Teslas aren't as luxe as other cars, but it's the nicest car we've ever had. The icing on the cake has been the free Supercharging that came with this older model!
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Agree.EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:34 amIt is all about context. Someone just starting out, almost nothing saved, even with a lets say $250k/yr income should maybe think long and hard about buying a brand new expensive upkeep luxury vehicle or watch for that matter. Someone who is well established financially can do whatever they want. Most people who became rich slowly over time through saving, investing and building wealth already know what they can and can't afford.SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:49 amYes, but the most likely advice given here is “don’t spend much money”. While good advice in a general sense, not so much in a specific sense. The “can I afford” threads are especially problematic. The usual response is yes you can afford it, but I wouldn’t do it.HomerJ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:34 amI agree with you.... BUT...SQRT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:45 amRight. Almost all the “spending” threads are worthless. Spending is personal! Spending depends on taste, personality, means, background, environment and lots more. Why anyone would care what strangers on the internet think about these kinds of things, is beyond me.simplextableau wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:36 am Pretty much this entire thread reveals the hypocrisy whenever there's a thread about purchasing a $5000 watch. Lots of spending many thousands of dollars more than necessary for obtaining purely utilitarian transportation, yet many criticize the watch purchasers.
There's a ton of advertising and social media pressuring people to spend spend spend out there.
This website can be useful because it showcases a bunch of rich people who don't waste money. In fact, many of us are rich BECAUSE we are thrifty.
"The millionaire next door" book helped me in the same way.
Yes, for established Bogleheads, spend what you want. For people new to the site, seeing pushback in these threads might actually be useful.
It wouldn't be good for a new Boglehead to see a spending thread where every single post was "Oh, yeah, my $100k car makes me happy. Best thing I ever bought!"
I guess this isn’t the worst thing, but for a long retired, 71 year old, very comfortably FI, it gets a little tiresome. I think the best solution for me is not to read these threads, but there is something that pulls me in. Like looking at a car crash maybe?
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
I guess it depends how one defines "luxury". For us, a big part of that definition is "brand new car", as we have followed the principle of "newly used 2-3 year old car with relatively low mileage" for over 30 years.
One of my brothers has a Lexus sedan (forgot which model) that i drove a few years back, and it felt great, the ride was so smooth I had to watch the speedometer, it was so easy to run well beyond the speed limit and not feel it. So maybe when I replace my current car (10 year old Camry bought used 8 years ago) I might consider something like that. Then again, a brand new Camry might be all the luxury I need .
One of my brothers has a Lexus sedan (forgot which model) that i drove a few years back, and it felt great, the ride was so smooth I had to watch the speedometer, it was so easy to run well beyond the speed limit and not feel it. So maybe when I replace my current car (10 year old Camry bought used 8 years ago) I might consider something like that. Then again, a brand new Camry might be all the luxury I need .
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
When: Recent (this year March)
Why: I was due for a new car and by all means and calculations, I can afford it ($200k income, $1.7M NW, Zero debt except mortgage)
And by luxury, we're not talking about some high end European or top of the line cars. I got a Tesla Model Y that only cost $39k before taxes and rebates. OTD was about $44k. It's by far the most expensive car I purchased. Considering my last new car I bought was a Subaru Legacy back in 2012 for $25k, this feels like a luxury car.
Why: I was due for a new car and by all means and calculations, I can afford it ($200k income, $1.7M NW, Zero debt except mortgage)
And by luxury, we're not talking about some high end European or top of the line cars. I got a Tesla Model Y that only cost $39k before taxes and rebates. OTD was about $44k. It's by far the most expensive car I purchased. Considering my last new car I bought was a Subaru Legacy back in 2012 for $25k, this feels like a luxury car.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
During retirement downsizing of crap , I got rid on all vehicles except RX350. Luxury but built like a brick. That's just an ordinary ride in SoCal.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
You should move to luxury when you start to feel embarrassed driving economy.
Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Money is a means to many ends.Californiastate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:48 am The BH proletariat only approves a certain lifestyle. A minimum level of suffering is required. Enjoying one's wealth isn't publically allowed. I'm all for low cost index funds. The rest of this MMM attitude is beyond me. A member once told me that Jack Bogle flipped new Volvos every few years. He would be abused if he was to post that anonymously here.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?
Actually read most of the last couple pages
Luxury to me are the premium brands. I could deal with/afford the upfront cost, it’s the higher maintenance costs I despise.
2001 Jetta ($18k), 2004 Solara ($32k), 2011 Odyssey ($38k), and 2020 Pallisade ($42k).
Slow lifestyle creep
Love the Pallisade, near luxury imo. Not missing much of anything.
A step up from here could be the Genesis SUV (gv70 or 80?)
Someone would really need to sell me on the benefits over the Pallisade, for the $20k+ premium.
True luxury would be a Merc S class for me at around $100k+, Or the SUV equavalent.
I’ll know I’m ready for this when the right 6 numbers show on the lotto.
I’m on the waitlist for the Cybertruck at $50k + Elon add on tax. That’s luxury right?
I know I’ll find it hard to downgrade in almost any part of my lifestyle. So I gotta do lifestyle creep, slowly. Cars, watches, wine, whisky, craft beer, saunas, kids tutors, & definitely vacations!
Luxury to me are the premium brands. I could deal with/afford the upfront cost, it’s the higher maintenance costs I despise.
2001 Jetta ($18k), 2004 Solara ($32k), 2011 Odyssey ($38k), and 2020 Pallisade ($42k).
Slow lifestyle creep
Love the Pallisade, near luxury imo. Not missing much of anything.
A step up from here could be the Genesis SUV (gv70 or 80?)
Someone would really need to sell me on the benefits over the Pallisade, for the $20k+ premium.
True luxury would be a Merc S class for me at around $100k+, Or the SUV equavalent.
I’ll know I’m ready for this when the right 6 numbers show on the lotto.
I’m on the waitlist for the Cybertruck at $50k + Elon add on tax. That’s luxury right?
I know I’ll find it hard to downgrade in almost any part of my lifestyle. So I gotta do lifestyle creep, slowly. Cars, watches, wine, whisky, craft beer, saunas, kids tutors, & definitely vacations!
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ |
“How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“