Pull-ups and Push-ups

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
whereskyle
Posts: 1755
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:29 am

Re: Need to be able to do 30 chin-ups

Post by whereskyle »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm [Thread merge into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

I will be doing chin-ups on July 1. Classic, palms facing me chin-ups.

I made a bet with a guy from work that I would be able to do 30 by July 1. He seems to think it is impossible and only some freak of nature would be able to accomplish such a feat.

So, my goal is to be able to do 30 chin-ups by July 1, which is 56 days from now. I can currently do 18.

What is the best way for me to increase my one set maximum?

Do I aim for X number of chin-ups per workout, and do it over however many sets I desire? Or do I do Y numbers of sets and increase the total that way?

Last workout I did 15-14-12-8. So 49 total. I can start with 18 to failure, but in subsequent sets I wouldn't be able to do as many.

Just wondering what the best way to increase my ability to do as many as possible on one set. That is the only goal.
Do pull-ups every day. Everyday do one more pull-up than you did the day before. Don't stop when you get to 30. That should get the job done.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
User avatar
Topic Author
Jazztonight
Posts: 1028
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Lake Merritt

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight »

This thread was never about doing pull-ups--or anything for that matter--to failure.

It was just about doing them.

Do your sets of exercises and then go on about your day. What a concept.

(I've learned that if there's a way to complicate things, people will typically find it.)
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
zeal
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:28 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by zeal »

This thread is full of great information--great discussions!

As someone with a small frame (5'7", 145lbs), I've always been a big fan of bodyweight fitness because it's my competitive advantage over the average person. When I was younger I was the weird kid who did flips off your trampoline or ran up the side of your house to climb onto the roof and promptly jump off... but, now that I'm older and don't train with quite as much intensity... I had to put a lot of that stuff on the shelf. Injuries take so much longer to recover from now. Most recently I've decided I need to give up on muscle-ups... I did them in sets of 10 for years, but lately they've started hurting my neck.

I mostly stick to the big three now and any variations among them: pushups, pullups, and squats. Below is my current workout plan I've been doing for a week and a half now--I like to change things up every 3 weeks. The first thing I do every morning (which I've done without fail for over 2 years now!!) is move every joint in my body through full range of motion multiple times (flex/extend toes 10 times each; roll ankles clockwise 10 times each, counterclockwise 10 times each; knee circles 10x each direction... You get the point). This only takes about 5 minutes and is great at pointing out problem areas that day, loosening everything up, and getting the synovial fluid... more fluid. I then walk for 30-60 minutes. After each workout I spend ~10 minutes on stretching/breathing. I also try to spend 20-30 minutes swimming every day but that doesn't always happen. I realize most people probably don't want to spend 1-2 hrs exercising (or feel they don't have the time) but it's more like a hobby than a checklist item for me--health and fitness was pretty much my first love.

Mon: Pullups, Handstand Pushups (against wall), Single-Leg Squats
Tue: Sprints
Wed: Dips, Kettlebell-Swing Squats, Inverted Dips
Thu: Sprints
Fri: Archer Squats, Inverted Rows, Pushups
Sat: 20min of yoga/breathing/stretching
Sun: rest

Not really relevant to the topic, but I also try to meld my diet with the workout--eat healthy Mon-Fri, but take it easy on the weekends.

For pullups, dips, inverted dips, pushups, and inverted rows I use Olympic rings. I realize that inverted dips aren't really a thing, but I always like to balance movements out, and it was the only real "opposite" to dips that I could come up with. It's not really a motion used every day :mrgreen:

Oh, and I'm curious how many pullups you do after my post, livesoft!
livesoft
Posts: 76960
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by livesoft »

I did 5. We both weigh the same, but I am almost 6 ft tall. My arms have no muscles.

I'm going backpacking for a little while in about an hour, so y'all have at this thread --- since I won't be able see it, I won't have to do any pull-ups! :)
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
WildBill
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:47 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Need to be able to do 30 chin-ups

Post by WildBill »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm [Thread merge into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

I will be doing chin-ups on July 1. Classic, palms facing me chin-ups.

I made a bet with a guy from work that I would be able to do 30 by July 1. He seems to think it is impossible and only some freak of nature would be able to accomplish such a feat.

So, my goal is to be able to do 30 chin-ups by July 1, which is 56 days from now. I can currently do 18.

What is the best way for me to increase my one set maximum?

Do I aim for X number of chin-ups per workout, and do it over however many sets I desire? Or do I do Y numbers of sets and increase the total that way?

Last workout I did 15-14-12-8. So 49 total. I can start with 18 to failure, but in subsequent sets I wouldn't be able to do as many.

Just wondering what the best way to increase my ability to do as many as possible on one set. That is the only goal.
Howdy

Today is the day! Any update?

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid
Triple digit golfer
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Need to be able to do 30 chin-ups

Post by Triple digit golfer »

WildBill wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:53 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm [Thread merge into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

I will be doing chin-ups on July 1. Classic, palms facing me chin-ups.

I made a bet with a guy from work that I would be able to do 30 by July 1. He seems to think it is impossible and only some freak of nature would be able to accomplish such a feat.

So, my goal is to be able to do 30 chin-ups by July 1, which is 56 days from now. I can currently do 18.

What is the best way for me to increase my one set maximum?

Do I aim for X number of chin-ups per workout, and do it over however many sets I desire? Or do I do Y numbers of sets and increase the total that way?

Last workout I did 15-14-12-8. So 49 total. I can start with 18 to failure, but in subsequent sets I wouldn't be able to do as many.

Just wondering what the best way to increase my ability to do as many as possible on one set. That is the only goal.
Howdy

Today is the day! Any update?

W B
Thanks for bringing this back up.

So here's the deal. Over the last couple weeks, the guy kept saying that he really didn't want to bet, that it was just in jest and he wouldn't bet money on something like that. Fine, I'm not going to start World War 3 over a chin-up bet.

I've been training using the method outlined here under the "Rep Record" section:

https://bretcontreras.com/how-to-increa ... -chin-ups/

I actually finished Week 4 for the second time yesterday (I fudged it a little to get through two full cycles, doing chin-ups two days in a row very early on) and am going to do my test on Saturday after giving myself a few days to rest and recover. Honestly, I don't know if I'm there yet. I think high 20s is likely. I will update on Saturday.
User avatar
praxis
Posts: 590
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:51 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by praxis »

I can do 15 to 20 pull ups each morning. I think if I use some of these training ideas, I can work up higher. I miss the weight classes at my club during quarantine. I have worked up to a 15 minute calisthenic routine and repeat it each morning at home. I already had a 40 lb barbell, two 20 lb dumb bells and a Bosu ball. I start with my pull ups and move quickly into
60 full jumping jacks
30 fast deep pushups
20 plank jacks
20 deep squats
20 lunges per leg
20 chest presses/ barbell lying on the ball
20 dips on the coffee table
20 slow curls
I get out on a walk or bike every day. Sometimes longer, sometimes, not so long.

It's a short routine, so I'll actually DO it.
I would skip a longer, harder workout. I know me.

I turned 71 yesterday.
Ependytis
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:10 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Ependytis »

Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
stoptothink
Posts: 9789
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I actually worked out with Herschel Walker (at an MMA gym) about 15yrs ago; there were a lot of weights involved. He's a fascinating guy and there are a lot of urban legends out there about him (most of which he was involved in starting and perpetuating).
Triple digit golfer
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Triple digit golfer »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:11 pm
Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I actually worked out with Herschel Walker (at an MMA gym) about 15yrs ago; there were a lot of weights involved. He's a fascinating guy and there are a lot of urban legends out there about him (most of which he was involved in starting and perpetuating).
That's very cool. There is no way to build a body like Herschel Walker did without weights. So it doesn't surprise me that the workout involved lots of weights. I believe he probably did a ton of bodyweight exercises, but that muscle base was built primarily with weights.
stoptothink
Posts: 9789
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:54 am
stoptothink wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:11 pm
Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I actually worked out with Herschel Walker (at an MMA gym) about 15yrs ago; there were a lot of weights involved. He's a fascinating guy and there are a lot of urban legends out there about him (most of which he was involved in starting and perpetuating).
That's very cool. There is no way to build a body like Herschel Walker did without weights. So it doesn't surprise me that the workout involved lots of weights. I believe he probably did a ton of bodyweight exercises, but that muscle base was built primarily with weights.
The coolest thing about being an S&C professional is the people you get to workout with, not so much the money. At the time I was the strength coach for a well-known professional MMA club (that is no longer in existence). Herschel was in incredible shape for someone in his mid-40's, but much of the stories about his unusual exercise modalities and nutrition philosophies aren't true, as far as I saw with my own eyes.
Triple digit golfer
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Need to be able to do 30 chin-ups

Post by Triple digit golfer »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:33 am
WildBill wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:53 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm [Thread merge into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

I will be doing chin-ups on July 1. Classic, palms facing me chin-ups.

I made a bet with a guy from work that I would be able to do 30 by July 1. He seems to think it is impossible and only some freak of nature would be able to accomplish such a feat.

So, my goal is to be able to do 30 chin-ups by July 1, which is 56 days from now. I can currently do 18.

What is the best way for me to increase my one set maximum?

Do I aim for X number of chin-ups per workout, and do it over however many sets I desire? Or do I do Y numbers of sets and increase the total that way?

Last workout I did 15-14-12-8. So 49 total. I can start with 18 to failure, but in subsequent sets I wouldn't be able to do as many.

Just wondering what the best way to increase my ability to do as many as possible on one set. That is the only goal.
Howdy

Today is the day! Any update?

W B
Thanks for bringing this back up.

So here's the deal. Over the last couple weeks, the guy kept saying that he really didn't want to bet, that it was just in jest and he wouldn't bet money on something like that. Fine, I'm not going to start World War 3 over a chin-up bet.

I've been training using the method outlined here under the "Rep Record" section:

https://bretcontreras.com/how-to-increa ... -chin-ups/

I actually finished Week 4 for the second time yesterday (I fudged it a little to get through two full cycles, doing chin-ups two days in a row very early on) and am going to do my test on Saturday after giving myself a few days to rest and recover. Honestly, I don't know if I'm there yet. I think high 20s is likely. I will update on Saturday.
I did 26. Still happy with my progress and results even though I didn't get 30. Maybe had the bet still been on I would have squeezed out more, but I doubt I could have willed myself to 4 more.
OhBoyUhoh
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:16 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by OhBoyUhoh »

Thanks for the update TDG! I'm at zero after getting to 15 reps comfortably. Did something wrong so starting all over.

Cheers
User avatar
five2one
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by five2one »

Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I'll bite; I'm a gym rat and when my gym was closed I did switch to mainly body weight but did u a weighted backpack for some exercises.

What many folks forget about weights compared to body weight is they get you results faster with a lot fewer reps which reduces overuse injuries.
There are other benefits also from coordination, bone density, etc. and the benefits increase with free weights to include cardio.

Regardless, I'm happy that folks are getting after it!
RobLyons
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by RobLyons »

It's nearly impossible to add muscle to legs just by doing bodyweight squats once you've already trained properly with weights for years. Same can be said for nearly every muscle group. This is the longest layoff from weights I've had in 20 years and I've lost a good amount of muscle despite a high protein diet and continued physical bodyweight training. I miss the gym and can't wait to get back (tomorrow!)
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"
User avatar
five2one
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by five2one »

RobLyons wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:40 am It's nearly impossible to add muscle to legs just by doing bodyweight squats once you've already trained properly with weights for years. Same can be said for nearly every muscle group. This is the longest layoff from weights I've had in 20 years and I've lost a good amount of muscle despite a high protein diet and continued physical bodyweight training. I miss the gym and can't wait to get back (tomorrow!)
FYSA, an Army ruck can easily hold 100 pounds of weight which I use for ruck-based exercises when I can't get to the gym.
Certainly doesn't replace a gym but it WILL wear you out.

Just be careful as rucking is a completely different type of weight to balance.
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 13665
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sandtrap »

My rehab doctor and also one specialist recently suggested to "avoid inactivity" as a "balance" to weekly home gym routines. And, not to overdo the gym work. The idea here is to maintain fitness through an active vs sedentary lifestyle in order to maintain and enjoy the lifestyle we want/need.
VS
Of course, there's focus on weightlifting, body building, etc, as a hobby or sport in and of itself, much like running.

The OP brings attention to "pull ups and push ups" and other routines as a means to the former and not a means to an end in itself. IE: goal 1000 pushups and really healthy pecs. (humor).

Ponderings:
(Sometimes workout fitness routines are already integrated in our daily lifestyle so compensate accordingly to avoid overuse and injury in the gym)

1. Lying on a rolling creeper and servicing a lawn mower, a tractor, etc, is like upside down pushups and really works those pecs.
2. Going up and down a 25 foot ladder to install bird spike strips on the house soffit, with a heavy tool belt, is similar to squat reps.
3. Doing overhead installation of things requiring pushing up on a drill or impact driver is similar to an overhead press and really develops delts, etc.
4. Bending under the hood of a tractor while trying to find a radiator leak is like doing "bent over rows"?
5. Not sure what lifestyle activity replicates pull ups?

DW asked me recently, "what happened to your bricks"?
I answered quickly, "they're at Home Depot if you want to see any."

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
stoptothink
Posts: 9789
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

five2one wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:35 am
Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I'll bite; I'm a gym rat and when my gym was closed I did switch to mainly body weight but did u a weighted backpack for some exercises.

What many folks forget about weights compared to body weight is they get you results faster with a lot fewer reps which reduces overuse injuries.
There are other benefits also from coordination, bone density, etc. and the benefits increase with free weights to include cardio.

Regardless, I'm happy that folks are getting after it!
I'm a lifetime lifter and former competitive powerlifter (and PhD exercise physiologist). I was diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome about 2yrs ago and can not put a load on my spine without severe pain. This means absolutely no olympic lifting, no more loaded squats, deadlifts, overhead presses (and bench presses/loaded pullups I have to be very cautious with), I have to be careful about loads when pushing/pulling my sled, etc. I do a ton of bodyweight exercises, loaded pullups, moderate-load sled push/pulls, trx/rings, and (for good or bad) I look like a totally different human in 2yrs. I've gone from ~205-210 (at <10% BF in dexa) to a similar body composition but ~180. To be fair, I've also started getting into mountain climbing/mountaineering, but there is simply no way to maintain significant muscle mass without weights (this is good or bad depending on your goals). Biggest issue for me is posterior chain strength, I am very much considering getting a reverse hyper.
Last edited by stoptothink on Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 2525
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by jabberwockOG »

Arbitrary short term goals are often a negative factor in maintaining life long fitness. Just a caution to those who are not lifelong fitness folks. Trying to hit a relatively extreme rep number goal (especially with a high stress exercise) is a good way to injure yourself. Best way to avoid injury is to work a number of reps that tires the muscle, but also allows you to maintain good form, posture, and alignment during the set. Struggling to get to a high rep number, especially for high stress or heavy weight exercise, usually produces a loss of form and body alignment, and that is very conducive to hurting yourself.
Last edited by jabberwockOG on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 13665
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sandtrap »

stoptothink wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:49 am
five2one wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:35 am
Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I'll bite; I'm a gym rat and when my gym was closed I did switch to mainly body weight but did u a weighted backpack for some exercises.

What many folks forget about weights compared to body weight is they get you results faster with a lot fewer reps which reduces overuse injuries.
There are other benefits also from coordination, bone density, etc. and the benefits increase with free weights to include cardio.

Regardless, I'm happy that folks are getting after it!
I'm a lifetime lifter and former competitive powerlifter (and PhD exercise physiologist). I was diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome about 2yrs ago and can not put a load on my spine without severe pain. This means absolutely no olympic lifting, no more loaded squats, deadlifts, overhead presses (and bench presses/loaded pullups I have to be very cautious with), I have to be careful about loads when pushing/pulling my sled, etc. I do a ton of bodyweight exercises, loaded pullups, moderate-load sled push/pulls, trx/rings, and (for good or bad) I look like a totally different human in 2yrs. I've gone from ~205-210 (at <10% BF in dexa) to a similar body composition but ~180. To be fair, I've also started getting into mountain climbing/mountaineering, but there is simply no way to maintain significant muscle mass without weights (this is good or bad depending on your goals). Biggest issue for me is posterior chain strength, I am very much considering getting a reverse hyper.
Non medical but fitness related:
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome is nasty. And, extremely painful! (also related to Adhesive Capsulitis/frozen shoulder due to trauma or overuse). My PT once said, "motion is lotion" so great that you keep moving and also maintain range of motion.
Consider overall fitness and lifestyle balance over muscle mass later on with aging.
The lifestyle activities maintain fitness as well.
Great job staying fit!

What is a "reverse hyper?"

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
Allan
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Allan »

Has anyone read the book "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle"? The author emphasizes the need for strength training, even to the extent of being the most important type of workout you can do, even over cardio. However, he also recommends strength training, cardio, and stretching/flexibility as all being important. I am 69+ and been doing weight lifting and strength training for 5 years, I consider it the foundation of my workouts. And yes I do pushups and situps too. The book really opened my eyes as to the importance of strength training.

https://www.amazon.com/Burn-Fat-Feed-Mu ... 0804137846
stoptothink
Posts: 9789
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:35 am
stoptothink wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:49 am
five2one wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:35 am
Ependytis wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm Herschel Walker, the greatest college running back in history, only did bodyweight exercises. His family couldn’t afford weights so he worked with what he had. I have only done body weight exercises for years. I can do 15 pull-ups 10 arm push-ups with my hand behind my back. Body weight exercises have helped me avoid injuries.They can be done anytime and pretty much anywhere especially with a TRX suspension system or it’s generic equivalent. With Covid-19, I didn’t interrupt my exercise routine at all. How many diehard weightlifters can say that?
I'll bite; I'm a gym rat and when my gym was closed I did switch to mainly body weight but did u a weighted backpack for some exercises.

What many folks forget about weights compared to body weight is they get you results faster with a lot fewer reps which reduces overuse injuries.
There are other benefits also from coordination, bone density, etc. and the benefits increase with free weights to include cardio.

Regardless, I'm happy that folks are getting after it!
I'm a lifetime lifter and former competitive powerlifter (and PhD exercise physiologist). I was diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome about 2yrs ago and can not put a load on my spine without severe pain. This means absolutely no olympic lifting, no more loaded squats, deadlifts, overhead presses (and bench presses/loaded pullups I have to be very cautious with), I have to be careful about loads when pushing/pulling my sled, etc. I do a ton of bodyweight exercises, loaded pullups, moderate-load sled push/pulls, trx/rings, and (for good or bad) I look like a totally different human in 2yrs. I've gone from ~205-210 (at <10% BF in dexa) to a similar body composition but ~180. To be fair, I've also started getting into mountain climbing/mountaineering, but there is simply no way to maintain significant muscle mass without weights (this is good or bad depending on your goals). Biggest issue for me is posterior chain strength, I am very much considering getting a reverse hyper.
Non medical but fitness related:
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome is nasty. And, extremely painful! (also related to Adhesive Capsulitis/frozen shoulder due to trauma or overuse). My PT once said, "motion is lotion" so great that you keep moving and also maintain range of motion.
Consider overall fitness and lifestyle balance over muscle mass later on with aging.
The lifestyle activities maintain fitness as well.
Great job staying fit!

What is a "reverse hyper?"

j :happy
A reverse hyper is a machine invented by powerlifting legend Louie Simmons. He developed the machine after breaking his back. It's a way to train your posterior chain while simultaneously decompressing your spine. This is probably my Xmas gift to myself. https://www.titan.fitness/strength/spec ... 00593.html
John88
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:57 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by John88 »

RobLyons wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:40 am It's nearly impossible to add muscle to legs just by doing bodyweight squats once you've already trained properly with weights for years. Same can be said for nearly every muscle group. This is the longest layoff from weights I've had in 20 years and I've lost a good amount of muscle despite a high protein diet and continued physical bodyweight training. I miss the gym and can't wait to get back (tomorrow!)
Agree for the advanced lifter it may be difficult but for the novice or intermediate one can definitely build muscle with bodyweight training, there are ways to add load to bodyweight training. Below are a couple of routines on reddit
https://reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/ ... ndroid_app

And

https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybui ... urce=share

Adding TRX type straps, weighted backpack, pull up bar, even a weighted bucket can make things interesting, Anyways many of us enjoy it to just stay in shape.
Parkinglotracer
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:49 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Parkinglotracer »

obgraham wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:58 am Heavens! I thought this thread was about Lingerie!
I thought it was about incontinence ( pull ups) lol
bondsr4me
Posts: 1684
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by bondsr4me »

I am 70+ and do some kind of workout at least 6 days/wk.

Mondays/Wednesdays/Friday are yoga and pushups (140 in sets of 2 25's, 2 30's, and 1 30 or 40).

Tuesday is racquetball day and nothing else other than walking in the morning.

Thursday/Saturday or Sunday is light weightlifting.

I also play 9 holes of golf on Thursday's when weather permits.

I usually walk about 5 days/week; about 1.75 mi.

The last year has been really challenging because of polymyalgia rheumatica.

But I think I am just about over it.

Just keep working out, but smartly.

Have a great week!
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 74405
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

Very long story short, I've changed my strength training routine from free-weights to back to body weight.

My daily routine -

- Walk for about 4.3 miles. It takes me a little over an hour, but I walk at a fast pace. It's a better workout than a slow-paced stroll.
- Push-ups - As many as I can. So far, I'm at 15.
- Pull-ups - 5, but I cheat and do a slight jump to start. It's what I can do.
- Elliptical - 10 minutes.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Rex66
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:13 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rex66 »

Adding a 20lb vest is a nice way to boost these workouts

Wouldn’t go much higher than that
mr_brightside
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:23 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by mr_brightside »

love this thread. keep moving everybody !!

a rolling stone gathers no moss ! :beer

-----------------------------
bondsr4me
Posts: 1684
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by bondsr4me »

mr_brightside wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:02 am love this thread. keep moving everybody !!

a rolling stone gathers no moss ! :beer

-----------------------------
+1

couldn't have said it any better!
User avatar
4nursebee
Posts: 1755
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 4nursebee »

Note to self: Comparison is the thief of joy!
Pale Blue Dot
MP173
Posts: 2247
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:03 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by MP173 »

I am on day 315 with Myfitnesspal.com and with a combination of diet change (and monitoring), intermitted fasting, and strength training there has been a 25 pound weight loss and a redistribution of the mass into more muscle. Dont get me wrong...I am not "ripped" or "chiseled" but it has been a very good 315 days.

I am mixing cardio with strength training. I have read several books, some of which indicate cardio should be replaced or diminished, but my form of cardio is something I look forward to - cycling.

Today - 70 minutes of cycling @ 14.5 mph on a mostly flat (with some hills) course. 60 minutes into the ride I stopped at the Y and did a quick 15 minute dumbbell workout with very little rest between exercises. I try to cycle 4-5x week and on those days will have a light weight workout...such as today's. 2x week I go for a 60 minute weight workout with diminished cycling.

Certain days I skip the dumbbell and do pushups, chin ups and perhaps bands.

For weights, i shifted about 2 months ago from building strength ( sets of 5-6 reps at 80%max) to hyperthrophy in which I go to 10 reps at about 60% of max. Started noticing muscle buildup.

For me the thing is to change things up from time to time to avoid boredom. The near daily biking helps...I love it. Perfect time of the year to ride...I was out at 520am this morning...sunrise at 510. Not much car traffic.

Great thread. It has been a motivation.

Ed
protagonist
Posts: 7171
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:47 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by protagonist »

Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am

(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 100 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
Wow. You just got my respect.
stoptothink
Posts: 9789
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

protagonist wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:03 pm
Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am

(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 100 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
Wow. You just got my respect.
Just turned 40 and recently accomplished the feat in just under 6 minutes...let's see how that strength endurance ages.
sandan
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:48 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by sandan »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:21 pm
protagonist wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:03 pm
Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am

(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 100 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
Wow. You just got my respect.
Just turned 40 and recently accomplished the feat in just under 6 minutes...let's see how that strength endurance ages.
I'm having a tough time at 40 already. At 30, my max reps was 18. Now I'm at 8. The big difference is the 20lbs I gained switching from basketball to cycling.
stoptothink
Posts: 9789
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

sandan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:54 pm
stoptothink wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:21 pm
protagonist wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:03 pm
Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am

(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 100 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
Wow. You just got my respect.
Just turned 40 and recently accomplished the feat in just under 6 minutes...let's see how that strength endurance ages.
I'm having a tough time at 40 already. At 30, my max reps was 18. Now I'm at 8. The big difference is the 20lbs I gained switching from basketball to cycling.
I actually broke my back (compression fractures at T11 and T12, L1, bulging at L1, L2, T10-T12) May '20 and have just over the last 3 months begun to do bodyweight movements again. Before the injury I was <40min for Murph and was able to knock out the pullups <6min with the 20lbs. vest on, including the first ~30 unbroken in the first ~45 seconds; nowhere close to that right now. Hoping I am feeling recovered enough to start doing BJJ/muy thai/MMA with my wife and kids in another 2-3 months.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 74405
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:49 am Very long story short, I've changed my strength training routine from free-weights to back to body weight.
I should mention that I'm on body weight routines because I was using the wrong technique for my dumbbell squats. I was getting knee pain and didn't know why. The doctor ruled out a bunch of stuff and recommended PT. Since I exercise at home, it couldn't hurt to get a professional opinion (pun intended). My intent was to go to 1 PT session and get a home workout program.

As soon as I showed the PT therapist how I did my squats, she stopped me immediately and knew why my knee hurt. When you do a squat, don't ever extend your knee over your foot. It places a lot of stress on your knee. I was hurting my knee due to poor technique.. She sent me home with knee strengthening exercises.

My follow-up doctor visit cleared me for exercising - but be careful. The knee only had "minor wear and tear", so he wasn't too concerned. I'm concerned, though, and learned a good lesson about respecting form and ego (pay attention to pain and don't do more than you should).

I'm not jogging because the muscles around my knees are letting me know they're not quite 100% yet. Walking fast is fine.

A friend recommended I get a personal trainer to see if I'm doing anything else wrong. I'll think about it, but not for now.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
sixtyforty
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by sixtyforty »

I don't think one need weights to build strength and endurance. I bought this book "Convict Conditioning" a number of years ago, which is all about body weight exercises over each main part of the body. I was blown away on how difficult some of these exercises are and the strength required. One thing I really liked is you start out very easy and it progressively gets harder. Can't procced to the next exercise until you meet the reqs of the previous.

Full disclosure: I haven't done any body weight exercises in a long time as I just mainly mountain bike which works for me.

https://www.amazon.com/Convict-Conditio ... 0938045768
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
User avatar
Topic Author
Jazztonight
Posts: 1028
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Lake Merritt

!

Post by Jazztonight »

protagonist wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:03 pm
Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am
(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 100 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
Wow. You just got my respect.
Thanks! I'm 74 now, and have had a major health issue this year. But the upper body strength remains, and after treatment I continue to do pushes and pulls, and have avoided exercise-related injuries for decades.
My current regimen:
MWF: 20 sets of 5 pull-ups = 100 reps in 30 minutes
T,Th,Sun: 20 sets of 10 jumping jacks + 20 sets of 5 pushups and 5 squats
Sat: 20 sets of 5 hanging knee raises.
MWF: 2.5 to 3.0 mile walk.

I read a copy of Convict Conditioning years ago. It's a very well written & illustrated bodyweight training book.

Do what you can. Consistency is the key!
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
protagonist
Posts: 7171
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:47 pm

Re: !

Post by protagonist »

Jazztonight wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:21 pm
protagonist wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:03 pm
Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am
(PS--I get respect from the weight-lifters when I meet them--they like a guy in his 60s who can do 100 pull-ups in 30 minutes.)
Wow. You just got my respect.
Thanks! I'm 74 now, and have had a major health issue this year. But the upper body strength remains, and after treatment I continue to do pushes and pulls, and have avoided exercise-related injuries for decades.
My current regimen:
MWF: 20 sets of 5 pull-ups = 100 reps in 30 minutes
T,Th,Sun: 20 sets of 10 jumping jacks + 20 sets of 5 pushups and 5 squats
Sat: 20 sets of 5 hanging knee raises.
MWF: 2.5 to 3.0 mile walk.

I read a copy of Convict Conditioning years ago. It's a very well written & illustrated bodyweight training book.

Do what you can. Consistency is the key!

Yes, it is, and that is quite a serious discipline.
"Convict Conditioning" *laughing....*
roamingzebra
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:29 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by roamingzebra »

Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am Last year I gave up using weights, and now only do Bodyweight exercises.

My home workout is simple:
1. Pull (pull-ups)
2. Push (push-ups)
3. Core (planks; hanging knee or leg lifts)
4. Legs (squats/lunges)
I recently added planks to my routine but I made the mistake of going on YouTube and finding all kinds of contradictory info.

One well-respected guy says regular planks give minimal benefit. Instead, lie on BACK (instead of stomach), arms outstretched to engage shoulders and pull body up with glutes and abs. This, according to him, engages the glutes and abs more than a standard plank which is like flexing a biceps -- it's USING a muscle but not really working it.

Another well-respected guy says stay with the regular plank position (starting on stomach), but arch the back upward (instead of keeping it straight) to better engage the glutes/abs.

I'm doing a few of each type of plank in the hopes that at least one is right and none will do any harm.
7eight9
Posts: 1935
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: !

Post by 7eight9 »

Jazztonight wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:21 pm I read a copy of Convict Conditioning years ago. It's a very well written & illustrated bodyweight training book.

Do what you can. Consistency is the key!
If you are going to do it - do it with conviction. :happy

Prison Industries board backs reality TV plan for prison: Motorcycles will be marketed as made by ‘Bighouse Choppers’ and bear the slogan ‘Built with Convictions
https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/ ... nvictions/
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.
brennok
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by brennok »

I would also suggest if you are seriously starting to do more bodyweightfitness that the reddit community has some good routines. https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/ and their FAQ with some routineshttps://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/faq
Dregob
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:45 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Dregob »

Why would I need to wear pull-ups to do push-ups?
Rayandron
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:48 pm

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rayandron »

From the Boglehead wiki:
the most important idea underlying the Bogleheads approach to investing is recognizing you need to save a significant portion of income every month to have enough money for a comfortable retirement. There is no substitute for spending less than you earn. Live below your means. If you don't save enough, no amount of financial trickery will provide the returns needed for a comfortable retirement.
My exercise translation:
The most important idea to health is recognizing your body is not designed for a sedentary existence and you need to utilize it a significant amount every month to maximize the likelihood of a long and healthy retirement. There is no substitute for having a physical activity to engage in on a regular basis, regardless of what your preferred activity is. In the same way that a savings rate dominates portfolio allocation in investing, consistent/long-term activity level dominates activity selection. If you want to fine tune from there, the exercise theory rabbit hole goes just as deep as the financial theory rabbit hole, and has just as many marketing and sales efforts trying to obfuscate the matter.
User avatar
Topic Author
Jazztonight
Posts: 1028
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Lake Merritt

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight »

roamingzebra wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:01 pm
Jazztonight wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am Last year I gave up using weights, and now only do Bodyweight exercises.

My home workout is simple:
1. Pull (pull-ups)
2. Push (push-ups)
3. Core (planks; hanging knee or leg lifts)
4. Legs (squats/lunges)
I recently added planks to my routine but I made the mistake of going on YouTube and finding all kinds of contradictory info.

One well-respected guy says regular planks give minimal benefit. Instead, lie on BACK (instead of stomach), arms outstretched to engage shoulders and pull body up with glutes and abs. This, according to him, engages the glutes and abs more than a standard plank which is like flexing a biceps -- it's USING a muscle but not really working it.

Another well-respected guy says stay with the regular plank position (starting on stomach), but arch the back upward (instead of keeping it straight) to better engage the glutes/abs.

I'm doing a few of each type of plank in the hopes that at least one is right and none will do any harm.
One of my gurus does what he calls "the rotisserie," where he lies on his stomach and does "Superman," Then does "side planks" and flips to his back and does some other kind of ab exercise.

These days, I'm doing hanging knee raises, 20 sets of 5 in 30 minutes. Whatever exercises your abs and doesn't harm you is good.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 13665
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sandtrap »

obgraham wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:58 am Heavens! I thought this thread was about Lingerie!
It took me more than a few seconds to understand this.
DW explained it to me!

Thanks!
Made my day :D :D
j
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 13665
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sandtrap »

For fragile folks there has to be some sort of balance between walking and body weight exercises?
Non medical suggestions?

There’s Asian traditional (non YMCA etc) Tai Chi and Chi Kung or more vigorous PaKua etc but that’s different.

Not sure if I could do one push-up or pull up without paying somewhere for the effort.

j🌺
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
CFM300
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:13 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by CFM300 »

LadyGeek wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:46 am When you do a squat, don't ever extend your knee over your foot.
Millions of people without access (or interest!) in western toilets squat with their knees past their toes every day. Olympic weightlifters squat with their knees past their toes with hundreds of pounds/kilos on their back or locked out overhead. Knees often extend beyond toes when walking up stairs.

While there are certainly different ways to squat, some of which limit the forward travel of knees, the extent of travel is determined in part by anthropometry. A person with long femurs is going to have a very tough time squatting to parallel or below without letting the knees travel very far forward. It's a matter of balance. If the knees don't travel forward, then their hips extend back further, and they have to bend over more in order to keep their center of mass over midfoot. But bending over isn't feasible when holding a barbell overhead or in the front rack position after a heavy clean. And it's not a comfortable squat position to maintain if you're going to be squatting for a while, as people commonly do in Asia for various reasons.

Your physiotherapist saw you squat, and I haven't, so she may well be right about you, especially given your current pain. But it's not generally true that people should never squat with knees past their toes, and there are many physicians, physical therapists, coaches, and orthopedic surgeons who concur.

I also think it's possible that once your pain subsidies you could progress to squatting to full depth with your knees travelling as far forward as they need to in order for you to achieve that position. That may not be your goal, of course, but the issue might only be that you need to progress slowly.
CFM300
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:13 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by CFM300 »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:24 pm For fragile folks there has to be some sort of balance between walking and body weight exercises?
Non medical suggestions?
...
Not sure if I could do one push-up or pull up without paying somewhere for the effort.
Scaling + reasonable progressions. Can you stand about a foot from a wall, place your hands on the wall, and perform a push-up? Once you can do, say, 3 sets of 10 repetitions of those, move to the kitchen counter. Then a bench (securely wedged against a wall). Then onto the ground, but on your knees rather than your toes. Then into a full plank. You can also progress the depth of the movement (more or less elbow flexion). The same principles apply to pull ups and squats and deadlifts and even running a 5K or climbing a mountain.
Xyz214
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:35 am

Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Xyz214 »

You're not hitting you hamstring.
Post Reply