Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

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mrmass
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Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:29 am

All,

I Noticed that the toilet fill valve float was starting to fail - water slowly leaking out of the top of the valve (not the flapper)
I use Korky Fill valves and had great luck with them and they're made in the US.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Korky-Quiet ... /100023407

So I turn the knob on the stop valve to shut off the water, but it wont shut off. Obviously another failure. Likely a washer not closing. I can't replace the fill valve without shutting off the water.

Image

To replace the stop valve I need to shut off the water to the house, and drain the system to something lower than where my toilet is (the pipe isn't isolated).

Not happy about wasting all the water, I'll fill some buckets but I don't know how much water is in a system. Does anyone have an idea? 2 floors, 2.5 bath 1800 sq. water heater and furnace in the basement.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:34 am

My guess is less than a gallon in the cold water lines. Unless you have elaborate long runs of pipe most of the pipe is pretty direct. Hopefully you have a valve that is lower than your toilet fill valve so you can drain from there...check outside taps.

Buy a good quality replacement shutoff valve from a plumbing supply house (not big box store) and it should last a long time. The easiest to install these days is a quarter-turn valve with a push fit fitting - no tools required to install.
Last edited by jabberwockOG on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chuck107
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Chuck107 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:36 am

Very little, it will only be the cold line you will be draining.

https://www.inchcalculator.com/pipe-volume-calculator/

Replace it with a quarter turn ball valve.

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Tubes
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Tubes » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:39 am

It isn't much. A few gallons. You don't have a McMansion. If you want to calculate it, you can use this trick.

One morning, turn on the hot water to the farthest sink, tub or shower. Capture that water in a bucket until the water gets hot, and measure it. Proceed to the other fixtures and do the same to capture the amount in those branches.

Add 10% for branches to the toilets and maybe icemaker.

I could think of a lot of other things to sweat over than a few gallons of water wasted. Am I missing something here?

BTW, since you are into saving, you can also fix the valve instead of replace. You'll still have to turn off the water. The seat can be reground. The washer can be replaced. You can repack the stem with graphite thread.

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:43 am

jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:34 am
My guess is less than a gallon in the cold water lines. Unless you have elaborate long runs of pipe most of the pipe is pretty direct. Hopefully you have a valve that is lower than your toilet fill valve so you can drain from there...check outside taps. Buy a good quality replacement shutoff valve from a plumbing supply house (not big box store) and it should last a long time.
I've got the basement with a tap outside. I could use that.

I noticed most of the sizes are 1/2 inch for the pipe part and 3/8 for the take filling part. Is that mostly a standard size? I don't know the size I have. I've never replaced one.

crefwatch
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by crefwatch » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:44 am

It’s possible that the valve has a bit of grit on the seat that is causing it to leak. Many modern valves can be flushed (just the valve body, that is) by turning them 1/8 turn while pressing down. They have tabs that prevent the top from being blown off until they are turned 1/4 turn or more. If you have a spare valve to practice on, you might get up the nerve to try this.

If the old threaded shutoff isn’t frozen in place, you might get away with swapping it in a hurry, without draining the system. What is your skill level? Is the rubber valve seat (near the top) replaceable?

Buy a ball (1/4 turn) shutoff next time, and exercise it annually.

Warning: It’s possible to break off the stub in the wall. I did this with a faucet supply, but the house water was off at the time.
Last edited by crefwatch on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:45 am

Tubes wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:39 am
It isn't much. A few gallons. You don't have a McMansion. If you want to calculate it, you can use this trick.

One morning, turn on the hot water to the farthest sink, tub or shower. Capture that water in a bucket until the water gets hot, and measure it. Proceed to the other fixtures and do the same to capture the amount in those branches.

Add 10% for branches to the toilets and maybe icemaker.

I could think of a lot of other things to sweat over than a few gallons of water wasted. Am I missing something here?

BTW, since you are into saving, you can also fix the valve instead of replace. You'll still have to turn off the water. The seat can be reground. The washer can be replaced. You can repack the stem with graphite thread.
Not missing anything, I've never drained it before didn't know if there were 100's of gallons or not.

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Tubes
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Tubes » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:48 am

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:45 am
Not missing anything, I've never drained it before didn't know if there were 100's of gallons or not.
OK. Cool, got ya. Fair question. I just wasn't sure if you were super strict on water savings, living in the desert or something, trying to waste zero.

Since it is a compression fit valve, this should be an swap out. I mentioned fixing it, which is possible, but probably not worth it. Soldered on valves are more likely candidates for a fix if you are a DYIer.

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:53 am

Tubes wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:48 am
mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:45 am
Not missing anything, I've never drained it before didn't know if there were 100's of gallons or not.
OK. Cool, got ya. Fair question. I just wasn't sure if you were super strict on water savings, living in the desert or something, trying to waste zero.

Since it is a compression fit valve, this should be an swap out. I mentioned fixing it, which is possible, but probably not worth it. Soldered on valves are more likely candidates for a fix if you are a DYIer.
True, how would you know if I'm like that or not.
I'll take the "broken" apart to gain some knowledge for next time. The crappy part of this is that when I turn the knob all the way off, it starts to drip to the floor so I need to turn it back on a bit more then the drip stops.

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Tubes
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Tubes » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:09 am

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:53 am
True, how would you know if I'm like that or not.
I'll take the "broken" apart to gain some knowledge for next time. The crappy part of this is that when I turn the knob all the way off, it starts to drip to the floor so I need to turn it back on a bit more then the drip stops.
Yeah, that's the valve stem. Very common. Sometimes tightening or loosening the packing nut (the nut that the valve stem goes through) will fix the leak. Sometimes, on old ones, if it seeps after you are done, put a catch underneath an it will self heal after a few days.

The real fix is to repack the stem with packing material. For these, it is just string with graphite in it. This is tried and true method in use for 150 years.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-3-32- ... /203193511

mgensler
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mgensler » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:51 am

If you have copper water lines, that's a compression valve that has a brass ferrule. The ferrule squeezes the copper line to hold the valve on. You're going to need to reuse the nut and ferrule. If you cut the ferrule off, you most likely won't be able to get the new one on unless you cut the pipe back. You can cut the pipe if you have enough extra but it doesn't look like it from the image.

Nowizard
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Nowizard » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:57 am

Plumbers will tell you that the valves should be closed and reopened at least twice a year so that synthetic parts don't dry out and develop the problem you have described. We don't do that, by the way, so it is just another "Should" that many of us don't follow. Sigh.

Tim

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Tubes
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Tubes » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:11 am

mgensler wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:51 am
If you have copper water lines, that's a compression valve that has a brass ferrule. The ferrule squeezes the copper line to hold the valve on. You're going to need to reuse the nut and ferrule. If you cut the ferrule off, you most likely won't be able to get the new one on unless you cut the pipe back. You can cut the pipe if you have enough extra but it doesn't look like it from the image.
That's a good point. You'd think someone named Tubes would have seen that. :D

There may be some slack in the pipe here. Only OP would know if they can pull the pipe out or not.

OP should read up on replacing a compression fit valve before attempting. I've sometimes had bad luck in reusing the old ferrule due to differences in tolerances between old and new.

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:15 am

Tubes wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:09 am
mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:53 am
True, how would you know if I'm like that or not.
I'll take the "broken" apart to gain some knowledge for next time. The crappy part of this is that when I turn the knob all the way off, it starts to drip to the floor so I need to turn it back on a bit more then the drip stops.
Yeah, that's the valve stem. Very common. Sometimes tightening or loosening the packing nut (the nut that the valve stem goes through) will fix the leak. Sometimes, on old ones, if it seeps after you are done, put a catch underneath an it will self heal after a few days.

The real fix is to repack the stem with packing material. For these, it is just string with graphite in it. This is tried and true method in use for 150 years.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-3-32- ... /203193511
So I just tightened the packing nut. It stopped the drip but the water still doesn't turn off. Ugh. It's copper pipe and there's a cover over the pipe for aesthetics.

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:19 am

jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:34 am
My guess is less than a gallon in the cold water lines. Unless you have elaborate long runs of pipe most of the pipe is pretty direct. Hopefully you have a valve that is lower than your toilet fill valve so you can drain from there...check outside taps.

Buy a good quality replacement shutoff valve from a plumbing supply house (not big box store) and it should last a long time. The easiest to install these days is a quarter-turn valve with a push fit fitting - no tools required to install.
I use the "best" 1/4-turn shutoff valve from Home Depot plumbing section. They cost about $10 or a little more. Do plumbing supply stores carry better quality values?

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:24 am

This site has nice visuals I can see that the compression sleeve could be troubleshome.
https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/ ... off-valve/

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:29 am

Also for size is there a common size? It looks like 1/2" pipe with a 3/8" supply side. My townhome was built 16yrs ago.

While I'm there should I replace the fixed supply pipe with a braided flexible one?

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Sandtrap
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:32 am

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:19 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:34 am
My guess is less than a gallon in the cold water lines. Unless you have elaborate long runs of pipe most of the pipe is pretty direct. Hopefully you have a valve that is lower than your toilet fill valve so you can drain from there...check outside taps.

Buy a good quality replacement shutoff valve from a plumbing supply house (not big box store) and it should last a long time. The easiest to install these days is a quarter-turn valve with a push fit fitting - no tools required to install.
I use the "best" 1/4-turn shutoff valve from Home Depot plumbing section. They cost about $10 or a little more. Do plumbing supply stores carry better quality values?
Yes.
Brass body.
The better valves are heavier.

Like faucets and fixtures. Heavier = brass, etc, construction.
j :happy
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mgensler
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mgensler » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:33 am

Tubes wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:11 am
mgensler wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:51 am
If you have copper water lines, that's a compression valve that has a brass ferrule. The ferrule squeezes the copper line to hold the valve on. You're going to need to reuse the nut and ferrule. If you cut the ferrule off, you most likely won't be able to get the new one on unless you cut the pipe back. You can cut the pipe if you have enough extra but it doesn't look like it from the image.
That's a good point. You'd think someone named Tubes would have seen that. :D

There may be some slack in the pipe here. Only OP would know if they can pull the pipe out or not.

OP should read up on replacing a compression fit valve before attempting. I've sometimes had bad luck in reusing the old ferrule due to differences in tolerances between old and new.
I wouldn't have thought about it but had to do this recently at the house. Seems like an easy fix until you see how the ferrule works.

Hopefully, they can find the exact same replacement valve and use a little sand paper on the ferrule to clean it up OR the escutcheon looks pretty deep. If it's thin metal, they might be able to cut it off with tin snips, back off the nut and then cut the pipe behind the ferrule. They can then replace with a flat escutcheon.

mgensler
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mgensler » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:37 am

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:29 am
Also for size is there a common size? It looks like 1/2" pipe with a 3/8" supply side. My townhome was built 16yrs ago.

While I'm there should I replace the fixed supply pipe with a braided flexible one?
If your toilet supply is in good shape, I would leave it. It appears to be copper and that's what the pros use. The braided are easy to install but are more likely to break. The braided stainless can corrode from chemicals and the supply line can burst. Also, they don't look as clean on install as there will be extra hose twisted around.

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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by galawdawg » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am

I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
Last edited by galawdawg on Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:41 am

1/2" compression to 3/8" Angle Stop.
Be sure to double wrench so the copper pipe in the wall is not twisted or strained. (huge one).
Gentle. . .but firm.
Oh so gentle. . . but firm.

Use a plastic paint roller tray under the valve to catch the water. It's one of the best things that fit under these low valves. Also catch parts and gungie things. Rag under the tray.

Several wraps of teflon tape and a swipe of teflon paste on the threads before reassembly.
j :D

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mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:46 am

galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
Nice video. could be my issue. I'll buy everything. 1/4 turn shutoff valve, and a rebuild kit. Paint tray to catch the water. Thank you. I might not do it today, as if the crap hits the fan from some unplanned reason, I won't need an emergency plumber to come.

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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:49 am

galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
+1
I had a bunch of apartment building rental units and changed washers and packing out of the old solid brass shutoff valves for decades. When I switched to calling a plumber to do the work, he did not change washers and packing, instead just changed the angle stops. All of a sudden I had problems with the brass or galvanized nipples into the wall busting and leaking in the wall, so he had to cut open the wall to change and fix that. And, I had to fix the wall. This went on for a long time until all the valves were "new". But, from then on, they never lasted as long as the old brass shutoff valves with new packing and "00" washers.

The reasoning from the plumbers was that changing packing and washers in shutoffs was too time consuming and no guarantee of result whereas changing the whole valve guaranteed result and was faster. Go figure.

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galawdawg
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by galawdawg » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:51 am

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:46 am
galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
Nice video. could be my issue. I'll buy everything. 1/4 turn shutoff valve, and a rebuild kit. Paint tray to catch the water. Thank you. I might not do it today, as if the crap hits the fan from some unplanned reason, I won't need an emergency plumber to come.
I suspect so. You likely have the shut-off valve equivalent of a dripping faucet. Most folks don't replace the entire faucet when it starts to drip....unless they want to upgrade to a different style.

If the problem is just the rubber washer and gasket, you should be able to fix it in just a few minutes, not counting the trip to the store.

Good luck!

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Sandtrap
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:53 am

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:46 am
galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
Nice video. could be my issue. I'll buy everything. 1/4 turn shutoff valve, and a rebuild kit. Paint tray to catch the water. Thank you. I might not do it today, as if the crap hits the fan from some unplanned reason, I won't need an emergency plumber to come.
Also buy a 1/2" compression fitting cap. You can stop at any time and put the cap on and turn the water back on. I used to have all kinds of end caps for every plumbing job. It's a handy "exit plan" in case you don't have the right part and the supply houses are closed or you just want to stop and turn the water back on for some reason.

Also, if you do buy a kit or shutoff, buy several of them of various sizes so you won't have to go back to the store. Then return what you don't use and is unopened. True Value, Ace, Lowes, Home Depot, is fine with this. Just keep your receipt so you can get a "back to card" refund vs a gift card.

Don't forget the teflon tape and teflon paste.

j :happy
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MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:07 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:41 am
1/2" compression to 3/8" Angle Stop.
Be sure to double wrench so the copper pipe in the wall is not twisted or strained. (huge one).
Gentle. . .but firm.
Oh so gentle. . . but firm.

Use a plastic paint roller tray under the valve to catch the water. It's one of the best things that fit under these low valves. Also catch parts and gungie things. Rag under the tray.

Several wraps of teflon tape and a swipe of teflon paste on the threads before reassembly.
j :D

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How do you remove a stuck old compression sleeve from the pipe? Is a compression sleeve also called a compression fitting? Which is made of a softer metal, a sleeve or a pipe?

Chuck107
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Chuck107 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:43 am

I've replaced all the undersink/toilet valves in my home years ago, IF there is enough pipe sticking out of the wall/floor remove the old shutoff valve and cut the pipe just past the ferrel , then use a sharkbite type quarter turn ball valve on the copper pipe after cleaning and deburing.

In the case of the OP the escutcheon (pronounced ‘ess-kutch-on’) is the (typically) metal bit that hides the ugly hole in the wall that the pipes come through. Some people call them flanges or cover plates.
May need to be replaced with one that is flatter.

If you don't like Sharkbite type products, it's a matter of personal choice. I've installed around 50 or 60 never had an issue or a leak.
Easy peasy.
Or use a replacement compression fitting quarter turn ball shutoff valve, try reusing the old nut and ferrel it would be rare that it would not work.
If it leaked, I would replace the escutcheon with a flat one and again cut off the pipe just past the old ferrel, install new nut, new ferrel new valve and tighten.

One benefit to sharkbite type fittings is they are reusable, and don't damage the pipe like a compression fitting does.
Pop one off, pop another one on.

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Tubes
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Tubes » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:46 am

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:07 am
How do you remove a stuck old compression sleeve from the pipe? Is a compression sleeve also called a compression fitting? Which is made of a softer metal, a sleeve or a pipe?
That's the rub. That's why we were talking about cutting the pipe. The brass sleeve digs into the copper. There's really no turning back once you've compressed onto the pipe.

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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:52 am

Tubes wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:46 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:07 am
How do you remove a stuck old compression sleeve from the pipe? Is a compression sleeve also called a compression fitting? Which is made of a softer metal, a sleeve or a pipe?
That's the rub. That's why we were talking about cutting the pipe. The brass sleeve digs into the copper. There's really no turning back once you've compressed onto the pipe.
I have never done this but it's interesting.
Usually the compression sleeve creates a dent in the soft copper pipe so it's either cut it back a bit or cut it back even more to near the wall and extend with a sleeve and start again.
j :happy
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Chuck107 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:32 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:53 am
mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:46 am
galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
Nice video. could be my issue. I'll buy everything. 1/4 turn shutoff valve, and a rebuild kit. Paint tray to catch the water. Thank you. I might not do it today, as if the crap hits the fan from some unplanned reason, I won't need an emergency plumber to come.
Also buy a 1/2" compression fitting cap. You can stop at any time and put the cap on and turn the water back on. I used to have all kinds of end caps for every plumbing job. It's a handy "exit plan" in case you don't have the right part and the supply houses are closed or you just want to stop and turn the water back on for some reason.

Also, if you do buy a kit or shutoff, buy several of them of various sizes so you won't have to go back to the store. Then return what you don't use and is unopened. True Value, Ace, Lowes, Home Depot, is fine with this. Just keep your receipt so you can get a "back to card" refund vs a gift card.

Don't forget the teflon tape and teflon paste.

j :happy
Hey Sandtrap, the end caps are a good idea to have around, I use the sharkbite types, easy to pop on and remove, reusable, and don't damage the pipes. Use on copper, pex, and cpvc.

https://www.amazon.com/EFIELD-Push-Fit- ... 339&sr=8-1

A hint about the removal tool for these sharkbite fittings... just cut a piece of pex pipe, or cpvc, about 3/8 or more in length, then cut the little 'ring' you just made so it opens, slip it over the pipe behind the sharkbite fitting and use that as a removal tool.
No need to buy their special piece of plastic (which almost always gets misplaced).
I cut one and leave it on the pipe of every fitting I install, just in case.

Topic Author
mrmass
Posts: 324
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:43 am

Chuck107 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:43 am
I've replaced all the undersink/toilet valves in my home years ago, IF there is enough pipe sticking out of the wall/floor remove the old shutoff valve and cut the pipe just past the ferrel , then use a sharkbite type quarter turn ball valve on the copper pipe after cleaning and deburing.

In the case of the OP the escutcheon (pronounced ‘ess-kutch-on’) is the (typically) metal bit that hides the ugly hole in the wall that the pipes come through. Some people call them flanges or cover plates.
May need to be replaced with one that is flatter.

If you don't like Sharkbite type products, it's a matter of personal choice. I've installed around 50 or 60 never had an issue or a leak.
Easy peasy.
Or use a replacement compression fitting quarter turn ball shutoff valve, try reusing the old nut and ferrel it would be rare that it would not work.
If it leaked, I would replace the escutcheon with a flat one and again cut off the pipe just past the old ferrel, install new nut, new ferrel new valve and tighten.

One benefit to sharkbite type fittings is they are reusable, and don't damage the pipe like a compression fitting does.
Pop one off, pop another one on.
I'm reading about the Sharkbite fittings. I might just try that. Thanks for the info.

Chuck107
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:47 pm

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Chuck107 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:49 am

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:43 am
Chuck107 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:43 am
I've replaced all the undersink/toilet valves in my home years ago, IF there is enough pipe sticking out of the wall/floor remove the old shutoff valve and cut the pipe just past the ferrel , then use a sharkbite type quarter turn ball valve on the copper pipe after cleaning and deburing.

In the case of the OP the escutcheon (pronounced ‘ess-kutch-on’) is the (typically) metal bit that hides the ugly hole in the wall that the pipes come through. Some people call them flanges or cover plates.
May need to be replaced with one that is flatter.

If you don't like Sharkbite type products, it's a matter of personal choice. I've installed around 50 or 60 never had an issue or a leak.
Easy peasy.
Or use a replacement compression fitting quarter turn ball shutoff valve, try reusing the old nut and ferrel it would be rare that it would not work.
If it leaked, I would replace the escutcheon with a flat one and again cut off the pipe just past the old ferrel, install new nut, new ferrel new valve and tighten.

One benefit to sharkbite type fittings is they are reusable, and don't damage the pipe like a compression fitting does.
Pop one off, pop another one on.
I'm reading about the Sharkbite fittings. I might just try that. Thanks for the info.
Your welcome, Make sure you clean and debur the copper pipe after cutting, cut the pipe straight, and make sure you push on the fitting fully...
A nice feature is that after you push on the fitting you CAN turn it on the pipe to position it.

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Kenkat
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Kenkat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:08 pm

This may not be of use, but I’ve found those oval shutoff handles tend to strip - so you turn then and they just spin, doing nothing. I’ve removed them by taking the screw off the front, then use a vise grip to grab the valve and turn off the water. Just something to possibly try before you start replacing the entire valve.

Topic Author
mrmass
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by mrmass » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:20 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:08 pm
This may not be of use, but I’ve found those oval shutoff handles tend to strip - so you turn then and they just spin, doing nothing. I’ve removed them by taking the screw off the front, then use a vise grip to grab the valve and turn off the water. Just something to possibly try before you start replacing the entire valve.
I was thinking of that too. I could do that without shutting of the water to the entire house I believe.

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Kenkat
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Kenkat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:26 pm

mrmass wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:20 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:08 pm
This may not be of use, but I’ve found those oval shutoff handles tend to strip - so you turn then and they just spin, doing nothing. I’ve removed them by taking the screw off the front, then use a vise grip to grab the valve and turn off the water. Just something to possibly try before you start replacing the entire valve.
I was thinking of that too. I could do that without shutting of the water to the entire house I believe.
Yes. Just be reasonable about the amount of force you use. If the valve itself is frozen or locked up, you don’t want to break it off.

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by neilpilot » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:35 pm

You obviously want to replace or repair the leaking shutoff valve. However, so long as it's not leaking through too much, you do have the option of delaying it's replacement and installing a new flush assembly. Either simply work fast, or cap the valve at it's discharge and take your time.

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:43 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:52 am
Tubes wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:46 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:07 am
How do you remove a stuck old compression sleeve from the pipe? Is a compression sleeve also called a compression fitting? Which is made of a softer metal, a sleeve or a pipe?
That's the rub. That's why we were talking about cutting the pipe. The brass sleeve digs into the copper. There's really no turning back once you've compressed onto the pipe.
I have never done this but it's interesting.
Usually the compression sleeve creates a dent in the soft copper pipe so it's either cut it back a bit or cut it back even more to near the wall and extend with a sleeve and start again.
j :happy
Image
Image
Now I know what the pictures are. I worked on many faucets in our house and had to replace the shutoff valve almost every time. I spent most of the repair time on the stuck compression sleeves, but somehow I managed to make it work after a long struggle. On rare occasions I was able to reuse the old one in place, but mostly I had to cut it bit by bit very carefully and tried to pop it off by twisting a flat blade screw driver as shown in the pictures. Working on plumbing is similar to working on a car exhaust system. Hard to remove old rusty parts, but no skills are required to install new replacements.

Housedoc
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Location: Alabama

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Housedoc » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:57 pm

I have reused the ferrel and nut many times. Get a new valve, coat threads with Teflon pipe dope. Unscrew old valve, install new valve. I use a small 6 inch paint roller tray to catch water.

Kobra
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Kobra » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:15 pm

I just had to do the same repair a couple of months ago. I purchased a Brasscraft G2CR19X C1 1/4 turn angle valve from my local Home Depot. I was told by a plumber buddy that a drop of oil on the threads will make tightening easy but not to use any putty or Teflon tape on the threads. The only thing I noticed is the new valves have a plastic liner inside instead of being solid metal.

Mark

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:18 pm

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:19 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:34 am
My guess is less than a gallon in the cold water lines. Unless you have elaborate long runs of pipe most of the pipe is pretty direct. Hopefully you have a valve that is lower than your toilet fill valve so you can drain from there...check outside taps.

Buy a good quality replacement shutoff valve from a plumbing supply house (not big box store) and it should last a long time. The easiest to install these days is a quarter-turn valve with a push fit fitting - no tools required to install.
I use the "best" 1/4-turn shutoff valve from Home Depot plumbing section. They cost about $10 or a little more. Do plumbing supply stores carry better quality values?
Plumbing supply stores will usually carry a wider range of valves including some better quality valves. These are more expensive but will be more reliable and last longer. As an example plumbing supply stores still carry all metal and brass ballcock fill valve assemblies for toilet tanks but the big box stores carry just the mostly plastic junk fill valves that have much more limited lifespan.

Even though I've done a lot diy stuff over the years, including a lot of plumbing, I personally avoid doing plumbing projects on weekends, particularly Saturday afternoon thru anytime Sunday. If you accidentally screw up your plumbing during a weekday it is much easier to get a plumber than on a weekend.

Also Utube is a great resource, - watch multiple utube videos even on simple projects and you will always pick up good hints and tips.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:32 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:18 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:19 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:34 am
My guess is less than a gallon in the cold water lines. Unless you have elaborate long runs of pipe most of the pipe is pretty direct. Hopefully you have a valve that is lower than your toilet fill valve so you can drain from there...check outside taps.

Buy a good quality replacement shutoff valve from a plumbing supply house (not big box store) and it should last a long time. The easiest to install these days is a quarter-turn valve with a push fit fitting - no tools required to install.
I use the "best" 1/4-turn shutoff valve from Home Depot plumbing section. They cost about $10 or a little more. Do plumbing supply stores carry better quality values?
Plumbing supply stores will usually carry a wider range of valves including some better quality valves. These are more expensive but will be more reliable and last longer. As an example plumbing supply stores still carry all metal and brass ballcock fill valve assemblies for toilet tanks but the big box stores carry just the mostly plastic junk fill valves that have much more limited lifespan.

Even though I've done a lot diy stuff over the years, including a lot of plumbing, I personally avoid doing plumbing projects on weekends, particularly Saturday afternoon thru anytime Sunday. If you accidentally screw up your plumbing during a weekday it is much easier to get a plumber than on a weekend.

Also Utube is a great resource, - watch multiple utube videos even on simple projects and you will always pick up good hints and tips.

bog007
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:27 am

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by bog007 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:42 am

yup i used sharkbite fitting a number of times. no problems

palanzo
Posts: 1027
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by palanzo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:21 am

mgensler wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:51 am
If you have copper water lines, that's a compression valve that has a brass ferrule. The ferrule squeezes the copper line to hold the valve on. You're going to need to reuse the nut and ferrule. If you cut the ferrule off, you most likely won't be able to get the new one on unless you cut the pipe back. You can cut the pipe if you have enough extra but it doesn't look like it from the image.
I believe you can get a puller tool that pulls the ferrule off. Not need to cut it off.

palanzo
Posts: 1027
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Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by palanzo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 am

Chuck107 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:43 am
I've replaced all the undersink/toilet valves in my home years ago, IF there is enough pipe sticking out of the wall/floor remove the old shutoff valve and cut the pipe just past the ferrel , then use a sharkbite type quarter turn ball valve on the copper pipe after cleaning and deburing.

In the case of the OP the escutcheon (pronounced ‘ess-kutch-on’) is the (typically) metal bit that hides the ugly hole in the wall that the pipes come through. Some people call them flanges or cover plates.
May need to be replaced with one that is flatter.

If you don't like Sharkbite type products, it's a matter of personal choice. I've installed around 50 or 60 never had an issue or a leak.
Easy peasy.
Or use a replacement compression fitting quarter turn ball shutoff valve, try reusing the old nut and ferrel it would be rare that it would not work.
If it leaked, I would replace the escutcheon with a flat one and again cut off the pipe just past the old ferrel, install new nut, new ferrel new valve and tighten.

One benefit to sharkbite type fittings is they are reusable, and don't damage the pipe like a compression fitting does.
Pop one off, pop another one on.
How do you take a SharkBite valve off?

Chuck107
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:47 pm

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by Chuck107 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:33 am

palanzo wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 am
Chuck107 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:43 am
I've replaced all the undersink/toilet valves in my home years ago, IF there is enough pipe sticking out of the wall/floor remove the old shutoff valve and cut the pipe just past the ferrel , then use a sharkbite type quarter turn ball valve on the copper pipe after cleaning and deburing.

In the case of the OP the escutcheon (pronounced ‘ess-kutch-on’) is the (typically) metal bit that hides the ugly hole in the wall that the pipes come through. Some people call them flanges or cover plates.
May need to be replaced with one that is flatter.

If you don't like Sharkbite type products, it's a matter of personal choice. I've installed around 50 or 60 never had an issue or a leak.
Easy peasy.
Or use a replacement compression fitting quarter turn ball shutoff valve, try reusing the old nut and ferrel it would be rare that it would not work.
If it leaked, I would replace the escutcheon with a flat one and again cut off the pipe just past the old ferrel, install new nut, new ferrel new valve and tighten.

One benefit to sharkbite type fittings is they are reusable, and don't damage the pipe like a compression fitting does.
Pop one off, pop another one on.
How do you take a SharkBite valve off?
Here is a video showing a few ways to do it, it is very simple.
https://www.google.com/search?q=remove+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

palanzo
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by palanzo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 pm

Chuck107 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:33 am
palanzo wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 am
Chuck107 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:43 am
I've replaced all the undersink/toilet valves in my home years ago, IF there is enough pipe sticking out of the wall/floor remove the old shutoff valve and cut the pipe just past the ferrel , then use a sharkbite type quarter turn ball valve on the copper pipe after cleaning and deburing.

In the case of the OP the escutcheon (pronounced ‘ess-kutch-on’) is the (typically) metal bit that hides the ugly hole in the wall that the pipes come through. Some people call them flanges or cover plates.
May need to be replaced with one that is flatter.

If you don't like Sharkbite type products, it's a matter of personal choice. I've installed around 50 or 60 never had an issue or a leak.
Easy peasy.
Or use a replacement compression fitting quarter turn ball shutoff valve, try reusing the old nut and ferrel it would be rare that it would not work.
If it leaked, I would replace the escutcheon with a flat one and again cut off the pipe just past the old ferrel, install new nut, new ferrel new valve and tighten.

One benefit to sharkbite type fittings is they are reusable, and don't damage the pipe like a compression fitting does.
Pop one off, pop another one on.
How do you take a SharkBite valve off?
Here is a video showing a few ways to do it, it is very simple.
https://www.google.com/search?q=remove+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
That's brilliant. Thank you!

palanzo
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by palanzo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:17 pm

Sharkbite

Has anyone replaced the multi-turn stop valves with Sharkbites? I have about a 1 inch copper stub. Will the Sharkbite work if there is a depression in the copper pipe due the the ferrule? I just don't have the room to cut the copper pipe back to the ferrule and still have 1 inch for the Sharkbite.

palanzo
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Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by palanzo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:43 pm

galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
I have the same problem as the OP. Thanks for the video from Ask This Old House.

Is there an advantage to using a brass stem? I notice that this part does include the stem washer.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... 298165-_-N

Others have suggested repacking the stem with graphite rope. Is this really necessary? It seems like the stem washer is what seals the stem.

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galawdawg
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Location: Georgia

Re: Replacing Toilet Stop Valve

Post by galawdawg » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm

palanzo wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:43 pm
galawdawg wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:38 am
I'd suggest you save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation and start small. It sounds like you may just need to replace the packing nut gasket and seat washer. The packing nut washer just slips on the valve stem, the seat washer screws onto the end of the stem. You can also buy a kit.

Here's a video from Ask This Old House that will show you how to "rebuild" a shut-off valve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI77VQPNuGY

I'd suggest you remove the valve stem from the valve and take it to Home Depot or Lowes to get the parts you need. This may work, depending on your valve brand: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... /204845385
I have the same problem as the OP. Thanks for the video from Ask This Old House.

Is there an advantage to using a brass stem? I notice that this part does include the stem washer.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... 298165-_-N

Others have suggested repacking the stem with graphite rope. Is this really necessary? It seems like the stem washer is what seals the stem.
I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two. In fact, you don't have to use a repair kit with new stem, you could just replace the washers!

The repair kit I linked comes with everything you need. On the part you linked, you would also need to buy a packing nut washer. Those usually come in a multi-pack. I'd recommend you take your old stem including the packing washer with you to HD or Lowes to be sure you get the correct size.

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