Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
Alexa9
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:41 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Alexa9 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 am

I'm looking for a wide variety of opinions. That's why I wasn't specific. I am also aware that I can google it or use citydata forums but I respect Boglehead opinions. Unfortunately, some of these hidden gem cities have become very popular through word of mouth and are no longer what they used to be. Many Californians have moved to Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, and Montana (no offense to Californians). Same with New Yorkers moving to Maine, New Hampshire, etc. driving up the cost. I've had some great suggestions so far with Louisville and Prescott.

Admiral
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:35 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Admiral » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:47 am

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 am
I'm looking for a wide variety of opinions. That's why I wasn't specific. I am also aware that I can google it or use citydata forums but I respect Boglehead opinions. Unfortunately, some of these hidden gem cities have become very popular through word of mouth and are no longer what they used to be. Many Californians have moved to Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, and Montana (no offense to Californians). Same with New Yorkers moving to Maine, New Hampshire, etc. driving up the cost. I've had some great suggestions so far with Louisville and Prescott.
I understand that, and Boglehead opinions are important and valuable. It's just that, like with questions about finance, you're likely to get better and more useful opinions if you offer more detail on what it means, in your opinion, to be "best." Have you even visited Louisville? Or lived in the Sunbelt?

It's like posting "what's the best mutual fund"?

visualguy
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:32 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by visualguy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:47 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:20 am
There are different reasons why areas are expensive. One reason is proximity to jobs, which may be completely independent from other things that lead to high quality of living. It makes little sense to pay for job proximity if you are retired. I'd MUCH rather live in a place like Colorado than NYC-area New Jersey. The latter is only expensive due to the fact that one can commute to NYC- which means job opportunities- but the commute means it's not ideal if you want to be in NYC for cultural opportunities.
I used to live in NJ, and went to Manhattan for fun frequently...

Proximity to good jobs is never completely independent from other advantages.

Also, even from a purely financial perspective I disagree that "it makes little sense to pay for job proximity if you are retired." Proximity to good jobs leads to much better appreciation of your home when you or your heirs cash out. Many rely on cashing out on their homes when they need the big bucks during the last few years of life, or for leaving something meaningful for the kids.

livesoft
Posts: 56014
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by livesoft » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 am
.... Unfortunately, some of these hidden gem cities have become very popular through word of mouth and are no longer what they used to be.
Right. Some were under 6 feet of water recently.
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

renue74
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by renue74 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:01 pm

new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:49 am
renue74 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm
I think your question is too broad.

What amenities are you looking for? Do you like cold or hot weather? Urban or suburban? Do you like outdoor activities? X miles from the coast? Is medical facility quality important?

If you're strictly looking for LCOL, I know of many small-ish cities in the South that would fit the bill, but I'm not sure I would live there because I would go crazy from lack of anything to do other than visit the local Wal-mart.
Church. Everybody goes to church. What's more, they ask you what church you attend-- where I come from that would be seen as rude and intrusive.

Bingo. High school sports events are still a big thing-- loyalty to the local team.

I used to marvel at the red light bookstores in trailers -- I think that had something to do with town laws, so they were placed just outside town or county boundaries.

I don't know how many counties are still dry, but the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county, though (TN).
This is exactly why I can't move to the deep south. TX is about as close as I can get. Southerns want you to believe they are hospitable to everyone, unless you go to the church on the other side of town. No government intrusion in your life - except I can't buy liquor on Sundays for some reason. Nothing to do so let's all go watch the high school football... what's a museum? And the amount of adult type shops littered along the highway, I guess family values end at the city limits.
Thanks for not moving down! We have to plan to buy our vanilla vodka for Jello Shots on Saturday before we layout Sunday church clothes. :wink:

Actually, harsh generalizations are quiet well lobbed across both North & South. I agree with the other poster about the "best" posts. "Best" is in the eye of the beholder.

Any consideration in moving to another area of the country should correspond with a lengthy visit or more, then a trial rental period where one leases a home or apartment to test the waters. Life's to short to be miserable where you live.

aj76er
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:34 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by aj76er » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:23 pm

AlwaysBeClimbing wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:45 pm
Mr.BB wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:07 pm
Just remember that low cost of living and quality of life do not necessarily go hand in hand.
And the converse is also true. A lot of places have been bid up massively in cost because everyone just had to move there because it WAS such a great place, and now massively overcrowded and built-up so that place is no longer the great place it once was. I moved from such a high cost area to a low cost area where the quality of life is much superior IMO to the place I left. YMMV
I agree. I'm witnessing this occur in Portland, OR. The traffic and crowds are really ruining this city. It's difficult to make it to hiking or swimming holes because of standstill traffic into/out of City. And now a large swath of hiking is ruined by wildfires (started by negligence of visitors). I rarely attend music or beer fests in town anymore due to the expected mobs of people.

This thread is interesting because I'm already thinking of my next move. Boise and Kansas City seem appealing.

For now, I'm staying put and enjoying the skyrocketing value of my home equity :).
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle

User avatar
TimeRunner
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:28 pm

WalletHub did an interesting look at this question in Jan 2017, link below, FWIW. Cost was one criteria of many:

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-wors ... ire/18592/
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | Endurance athletes are the Bogleheads of sports. | "I like people - I just don't want to be around 'em." - Russell Gordy

hicabob
Posts: 2525
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: cruz

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by hicabob » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:47 pm

aj76er wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:23 pm
And now a large swath of hiking is ruined by wildfires (started by negligence of visitors).
I thought those miscreant kids were locals, not far visitors but from just from across the river in Vancouver, which is just about as close to Multnomah Falls as Portland is if my recollection from visiting the area and hiking up to see the falls is correct. From what I have seen it is quite amazing how quickly wildfire damage is repaired after a couple rainy seasons.

rgs92
Posts: 1323
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:00 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by rgs92 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm

Atlanta seemed really nice to me, especially if you still need to work. Houses are pretty cheap. You can find a very nice 4 bedroom house in a nice subdivision in the suburbs for about $450K and only about $5000 property taxes (more or less on these costs, depending on the town).
The weather is not extreme and there are all the modern amenities you would need.
Also, it seems pretty cosmopolitan to me.

I haven't been there, but I heard Pittsburgh, PA is a great bargain for what you get.
Other interesting but off-the-radar places in PA are Allentown/Bethlehem and King Of Prussia.
I heard the same about Columbus, Ohio. The Cleveland area had a nice renaissance in the last 30 years.
I've been to Allentown/Bethlehem PA and Cleveland, OH a few times and they seem nice and livable.
Last edited by rgs92 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Just sayin...
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:12 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Just sayin... » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:07 pm

new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 am
...This is exactly why I can't move to the deep south. TX is about as close as I can get. Southerns want you to believe they are hospitable to everyone, unless you go to the church on the other side of town. No government intrusion in your life - except I can't buy liquor on Sundays for some reason. Nothing to do so let's all go watch the high school football... what's a museum? And the amount of adult type shops littered along the highway, I guess family values end at the city limits.
I live in Oregon - not exactly what you'd consider a "Southern State". We can't buy liquor here on Sundays either. Nor in Washington State. Guess the straw man now has a few less stems...

User avatar
Just sayin...
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:12 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Just sayin... » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:09 pm

hicabob wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:47 pm
aj76er wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:23 pm
And now a large swath of hiking is ruined by wildfires (started by negligence of visitors).
I thought those miscreant kids were locals, not far visitors but from just from across the river in Vancouver, which is just about as close to Multnomah Falls as Portland is if my recollection from visiting the area and hiking up to see the falls is correct. From what I have seen it is quite amazing how quickly wildfire damage is repaired after a couple rainy seasons.
Just caught and charged a Utah man for starting several fires along I-97:

https://patch.com/oregon/portland/3-ore ... ate-police

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17245
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:50 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 am
Many Californians have moved to Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, and Montana (no offense to Californians). Same with New Yorkers moving to Maine, New Hampshire, etc. driving up the cost. I've had some great suggestions so far with Louisville and Prescott.
People also move back. I know some people in Arlington, VA, who had moved to Florida, did not like it there, and moved back.

Large metropolitan areas have traffic problems. BUT if you live in the center of the area, or close to public transportation, you don't deal with traffic.
Large metropolitan areas attract the young, the talented, and the ambitious. And the young, the talented and the ambitious create an atmosphere for everyone.
In large metropolitan areas, there is always somewhere to go and something to do. If you don't rely on your car, snow does not keep you indoors. In D.C., summer heat and humidity can be bad, but you can beat them by spending time in the Smithsonian. (I usually travel in summer and miss at least a half of bad-weather days.)

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

ut76vol
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by ut76vol » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:45 pm

Tennessee is a great place to retire. I would avoid the Memphis area but Jackson is a pretty laid back small city. Since I live in West Tennessee and have a home in East Tennessee ( Knoxville area) and a daughter who has lived in Nashville for 2 years my suggestion would be East Tennessee would be my choice. Nashville is now a very progressive city and building is extensive, excessive traffic and high cost of living. Chattanooga would be great as well. Mountains in both areas in East Tennessee are very inviting and progressive activities happening somewhat as well. JMO! :happy

AlwaysBeClimbing
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:39 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by AlwaysBeClimbing » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:37 pm

aj76er wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:23 pm
AlwaysBeClimbing wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:45 pm
Mr.BB wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:07 pm
Just remember that low cost of living and quality of life do not necessarily go hand in hand.
And the converse is also true. A lot of places have been bid up massively in cost because everyone just had to move there because it WAS such a great place, and now massively overcrowded and built-up so that place is no longer the great place it once was. I moved from such a high cost area to a low cost area where the quality of life is much superior IMO to the place I left. YMMV
I agree. I'm witnessing this occur in Portland, OR. The traffic and crowds are really ruining this city. It's difficult to make it to hiking or swimming holes because of standstill traffic into/out of City. And now a large swath of hiking is ruined by wildfires (started by negligence of visitors). I rarely attend music or beer fests in town anymore due to the expected mobs of people.

This thread is interesting because I'm already thinking of my next move. Boise and Kansas City seem appealing.

For now, I'm staying put and enjoying the skyrocketing value of my home equity :).
I considered Portland(and Boise) when I was seeking alternatives to the SFBA, glad I didn't follow those notions then even if I'd have made a lot more in home equity(Portland) than I have in my smallish city( which I'm happy to note rarely shows up in these "best place to move to" kind of posts). My plan is to 'shelter in place' for my duration. It has not been a happy summer with the PNW fires/smoke for sure.

gkaplan
Posts: 7034
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by gkaplan » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:40 pm

I think looking for a city to live in solely because of costs is a mistake. More important I think is whether the life style agrees with you.
Gordon

2015
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by 2015 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:50 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 am
Many Californians have moved to Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, and Montana (no offense to Californians). Same with New Yorkers moving to Maine, New Hampshire, etc. driving up the cost. I've had some great suggestions so far with Louisville and Prescott.
People also move back. I know some people in Arlington, VA, who had moved to Florida, did not like it there, and moved back.

Large metropolitan areas have traffic problems. BUT if you live in the center of the area, or close to public transportation, you don't deal with traffic.
Large metropolitan areas attract the young, the talented, and the ambitious
. And the young, the talented and the ambitious create an atmosphere for everyone.
In large metropolitan areas, there is always somewhere to go and something to do. If you don't rely on your car, snow does not keep you indoors. In D.C., summer heat and humidity can be bad, but you can beat them by spending time in the Smithsonian. (I usually travel in summer and miss at least a half of bad-weather days.)

Victoria
Not if you live in Los Angeles. Public transit is getting much better, but you still need a car, even if you live in a central area like downtown. Driving here is simply insane, 1000 times more so since 2008. There is no down time for traffic. Even on side streets and on the major boulevards, which you try to use as much as possible to avoid the crawlways (freeways), traffic is...insane. People put up with it because the city is alive with hustle, possibility, glamour, and excitement. Particularly in my area, hustle oozes everywhere, spilling into, onto, and all over, everything it touches. Beneath the low key veneer, it's so fierce that if you don't newly arrive with your game on you'll get eaten alive. I've been here so long I know what people are going to do before they do it, so I don't need (or want) a game anymore. Soon, very soon, I'll be gone.

Where one calls home is intensely personal. Everyone is different, with different tastes, needs, and desires, at different places in their lives. I believe it's critical to choose a city that works for you (I recall Mr. Money Moustache stated he was judicious when choosing the city he calls home in Colorado). Personally, I'd be just as disconnected in any other major U.S. city as LA. In fact, a major surprise when visiting the lovely city of Portland earlier this year was that even that fair city was too large for me. I've done the sights, sounds, and distractions of the big city lights stuff since I was 20 years old. Now, that's a life that belongs to who I was before, not who I am now. Robert Greene's outstanding books "The 48 Laws of Power" and "The Art of Seduction" are only two of so many excellent works demonstrating how the most potent forms of personal power, must be created from within. No amount of external distractions can give you that. I'm in the process of migrating more and more from the external to the internal, experiencing more personal power, satisfaction, and fulfillment than I knew possible as a result, and it's the most exciting ride of my life. YMMV.

CFM300
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:13 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by CFM300 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 pm

2015 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 pm
Not if you live in Los Angeles.
...
Soon, very soon, I'll be gone.
Do you know where you're going? Just curious.

aarondearu
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:40 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by aarondearu » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:54 pm

Just sayin... wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:07 pm
new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 am
...This is exactly why I can't move to the deep south. TX is about as close as I can get. Southerns want you to believe they are hospitable to everyone, unless you go to the church on the other side of town. No government intrusion in your life - except I can't buy liquor on Sundays for some reason. Nothing to do so let's all go watch the high school football... what's a museum? And the amount of adult type shops littered along the highway, I guess family values end at the city limits.
I live in Oregon - not exactly what you'd consider a "Southern State". We can't buy liquor here on Sundays either. Nor in Washington State. Guess the straw man now has a few less stems...
Washington State has allowed liquor sales on Sundays for over a decade. But point taken.

mega317
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:55 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by mega317 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:44 am

2015 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 pm
Particularly in my area, hustle oozes everywhere, spilling into, onto, and all over, everything it touches. Beneath the low key veneer, it's so fierce that if you don't newly arrive with your game on you'll get eaten alive. I've been here so long I know what people are going to do before they do it, so I don't need (or want) a game anymore. Soon, very soon, I'll be gone.
What does any of this mean? Did you move to LA for NFL training camp?

Slacker
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Slacker » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:53 am

livesoft wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:02 pm
Mobile, AL
Corpus Christi, TX
El Paso, TX
Not sure if you've lived in El Paso before. I lived there for several years two decades ago and if it is relatively the same as when I left, I would not ever recommend El Paso to anyone.

El Paso, while only having 700K people, gets the benefits of all the pollution from Juarez's 2,000,000+. On average they tend to be quite a bit poorer in Juarez and as such the vehicles are in very poor repair so you get quite a bit of pollution from them. Also, when they drive in El Paso they do so under their Juarez rules and often times will not realize it is an issue if they accidentally bump you with their car. Housing is cheap, but it is almost as hot there as it is in Phoenix (without the benefit of the warmer winters in Phoenix - the altitude in El Paso means you can still get very chilly nights there in the winter). I've also had run ins with drug dealers & gangs just trying to eat at a fastfood joint near Ft. Bliss.

Housing is very cheap though. The West side of town seemed a bit nicer.

Perhaps things have changed since I've been gone.

Slacker
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Slacker » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:08 am

beardsworth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:55 pm
Slacker wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:17 pm
If my wife were okay with the area, we'd move to Prescott (but she doesn't care for the feel, look and atmosphere of Prescott).
Could you provide just some brief details behind that comment? Not about your relocation decision "relationship" with your wife :) but about why some people might consider "the feel, look and atmosphere of Prescott" to be objectionable.

We've never been there, but have heard nice things about it, so I was surprised to see the remark.

Thanks.
She is looking for a more cosmopolitan "big city" feel. I think she was just entertaining my wistful ideas of living in more of a quiet wilderness type setting. We looked at a few houses on the hills with impressive views of the valley that she really liked, but she wanted more excitement with a little bit easier access than going into Phoenix.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17245
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:03 am

CFM300 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 pm
2015 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 pm
Not if you live in Los Angeles.
...
Soon, very soon, I'll be gone.
Do you know where you're going? Just curious.
Probably to Washington DC, under my influence.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

core4portfolio
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by core4portfolio » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:08 am

Suburbans of Atlanta GA
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

livesoft
Posts: 56014
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by livesoft » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:26 am

Slacker wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:53 am
Also, when they drive in El Paso they do so under their Juarez rules and often times will not realize it is an issue if they accidentally bump you with their car.
Sounds much like Boston except for the "accidently" part. :)
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

donaldfair71
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by donaldfair71 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:06 am

new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:49 am
renue74 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm
I think your question is too broad.

What amenities are you looking for? Do you like cold or hot weather? Urban or suburban? Do you like outdoor activities? X miles from the coast? Is medical facility quality important?

If you're strictly looking for LCOL, I know of many small-ish cities in the South that would fit the bill, but I'm not sure I would live there because I would go crazy from lack of anything to do other than visit the local Wal-mart.
Church. Everybody goes to church. What's more, they ask you what church you attend-- where I come from that would be seen as rude and intrusive.

Bingo. High school sports events are still a big thing-- loyalty to the local team.

I used to marvel at the red light bookstores in trailers -- I think that had something to do with town laws, so they were placed just outside town or county boundaries.

I don't know how many counties are still dry, but the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county, though (TN).
This is exactly why I can't move to the deep south. TX is about as close as I can get. Southerns want you to believe they are hospitable to everyone, unless you go to the church on the other side of town. No government intrusion in your life - except I can't buy liquor on Sundays for some reason. Nothing to do so let's all go watch the high school football... what's a museum? And the amount of adult type shops littered along the highway, I guess family values end at the city limits.
This quite honestly describes my hometown in northwestern Pa. It's not a north/south thing anymore (Edit: Not that I'm sure it ever was).

User avatar
yukonjack
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Rocky Mountain West

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by yukonjack » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:14 am

Tamales wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:38 pm
Broad-brush averages/medians for housing prices in large metro areas can really mislead. They all have ranges. Sometimes very wide ranges.

A tool like the Trulia heat map of housing cost per square foot can give a more granular breakdown of various suburbs.
for example in the case of Denver: https://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Colo ... -heat_map/
The granularity gets finer as you zoom in. Neat tool! Only found it recently.
+1. That Trulia page is interesting. When I checked my neighborhood the number seemed pretty accurate. If nothing else it is a fun read.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 5457
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:28 am

livesoft wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:26 am
Slacker wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:53 am
Also, when they drive in El Paso they do so under their Juarez rules and often times will not realize it is an issue if they accidentally bump you with their car.
Sounds much like Boston except for the "accidently" part. :)
Ahhh......you used your blinker. Giving information away to the enemy. Big no no.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

User avatar
greg24
Posts: 2844
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:34 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by greg24 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:31 am

College towns are generally a good combination of low cost and high quality of living.

Rupert
Posts: 2422
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Rupert » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:37 am

donaldfair71 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:06 am
new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:49 am
renue74 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm
I think your question is too broad.

What amenities are you looking for? Do you like cold or hot weather? Urban or suburban? Do you like outdoor activities? X miles from the coast? Is medical facility quality important?

If you're strictly looking for LCOL, I know of many small-ish cities in the South that would fit the bill, but I'm not sure I would live there because I would go crazy from lack of anything to do other than visit the local Wal-mart.
Church. Everybody goes to church. What's more, they ask you what church you attend-- where I come from that would be seen as rude and intrusive.

Bingo. High school sports events are still a big thing-- loyalty to the local team.

I used to marvel at the red light bookstores in trailers -- I think that had something to do with town laws, so they were placed just outside town or county boundaries.

I don't know how many counties are still dry, but the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county, though (TN).
This is exactly why I can't move to the deep south. TX is about as close as I can get. Southerns want you to believe they are hospitable to everyone, unless you go to the church on the other side of town. No government intrusion in your life - except I can't buy liquor on Sundays for some reason. Nothing to do so let's all go watch the high school football... what's a museum? And the amount of adult type shops littered along the highway, I guess family values end at the city limits.
This quite honestly describes my hometown in northwestern Pa. It's not a north/south thing anymore (Edit: Not that I'm sure it ever was).
I was in southwest Pennsylvania not too long ago and saw more rebel flags flying in people's yards than I typically see in comparable areas in the South, and I've lived in the South most of my life. So, please, enough with the South bashing. We are not solely responsible for the decline of Western civilization. (And, btw, you can buy alcohol in most places here on Sunday, just not until after noon).

Imbros
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:41 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Imbros » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:06 am

ut76vol wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:45 pm
Tennessee is a great place to retire. I would avoid the Memphis area but Jackson is a pretty laid back small city. Since I live in West Tennessee and have a home in East Tennessee ( Knoxville area) and a daughter who has lived in Nashville for 2 years my suggestion would be East Tennessee would be my choice. Nashville is now a very progressive city and building is extensive, excessive traffic and high cost of living. Chattanooga would be great as well. Mountains in both areas in East Tennessee are very inviting and progressive activities happening somewhat as well. JMO! :happy
Thank you for the information on TN. Are you familiar with the Chattanooga area? How would you compare cost of living in Eastern TN to other places you have lived in?
There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth. -L. Tolstoy

2015
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by 2015 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:45 am

CFM300 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 pm
2015 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 pm
Not if you live in Los Angeles.
...
Soon, very soon, I'll be gone.
Do you know where you're going? Just curious.
Desert country somewhere. I'm seeking space, peace, and quiet, with the ability to continue this internal expansion without what I view as frivolous distractions. This would rule out any of the major cities in the SW. Space, peace, and quiet does not mean being a loner. To the contrary, after finishing the Deep Work book, I shed and/or minimized what I viewed as low value adding relationships and activities, such that my high value relationships deepened and became more fulfilling while my high value activities added still additional value.

I mentioned Mr. MM previously because back when I was reading his site he gave detailed explanations on why he chose his location (e.g., outdoors, ability to bike, climate, etc.). I feel it's important to go beyond HCOL/LCOL considerations to ensure a city is a "fit" for one's own psyche. I wish I could remember the name of he book I read discussing how each city "whispers" something to us. I've come to the conclusion that in LA it's "your not 'all that' enough." In NY, it's roughly something akin to "you're not rich enough" with all the finance pathology. In DC, it's probably somewhere in the vicinity of "you're not powerful enough" with the center-of-the-world political pathology. In SF and the BA, it's "you're not hip enough." I sensed this same vibe in Portland, and it's probably an approximation of Seattle's whisper as well. I believe it's important to engage in second stage thinking and ask yourself what is drawing you, on an unconscious level, to the city you're in. In some ways, that draw may very well be related to weaknesses far below the unconscious level, perhaps even in childhood.

From economics, we know that human beings are all inherently greedy, lazy, vain, ignorant, selfish, ambitious, and impatient. We are all narcissists, to one degree or another, in love with our opinions, tastes, conclusions, etc., each possessing one or more major weakness reaching back to childhood from which most other weaknesses stem (I again recommend Robert Greene's The 48 Laws of Power and The Art of Seduction books regarding these topics). Why is this important? Because our choices are never what they seem. We could be riding on an unconscious treadmill not of our own making. When you drill down in your choices, like choosing where to live, asking not what you would gain but what could go wrong with this particular choice (the Inversion Mental Model), you stand a much better chance of not making mistake. Much of power and success in life is not about what choose to do, but what we refrain from doing. Less is definitely more in many cases.

2015
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by 2015 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:58 am

mega317 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:44 am
2015 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 pm
Particularly in my area, hustle oozes everywhere, spilling into, onto, and all over, everything it touches. Beneath the low key veneer, it's so fierce that if you don't newly arrive with your game on you'll get eaten alive. I've been here so long I know what people are going to do before they do it, so I don't need (or want) a game anymore. Soon, very soon, I'll be gone.
What does any of this mean? Did you move to LA for NFL training camp?
Outstanding analogy. LA, particularly in the areas saturated with entertainment, is very much a psychological, emotional, and psychic NFL training camp. It's Disneyland, only it's The Freakiest Place on Earth. It's impossible to describe adequately; you can only truly sense it by experiencing it, and even then it's supremely nebulous.

Most people have a hole in them somewhere, and they're unconsciously drawn to a particular city to fill that hole. In the same way, many people become obsessed with personal finance and investing to fill another type of unconscious hole (e.g., needs related to control, security, stability, and certainty, and even vanity). While one choice may have emotional/psychological ramifications, the other has financial ramifications. I cannot think of a more valuable basic mental model than the concept, felt deep in your gut, that you simply can't trust your own choices. In the world of personal finance--and choosing where to live falls under this--second guessing oneself is a virtue.

User avatar
peterinjapan
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 8:41 am
Location: Japan!
Contact:

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by peterinjapan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:26 am

Depending on your age, I'd look at what cities had the best startup culture. I'd personally go to some cool small city in the midwest if I were young, see what startup action I could latch onto.

mega317
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:55 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by mega317 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:37 am

2015 I think your posts reveal much more about you than cities or other people. I have lived in LA and yes some parts could be called "Disneyland" and some people might be "freaky" to you but overall it's just a crowded, expensive city with lots of things to do and traffic. I never felt "not 'all that' enough" but I wasn't trying to make it in entertainment or trying to get into nightclubs. I did feel "not 'all that' enough" in a medium-sized midwestern city when I was about 14. I enjoyed LA's weather, the beach, proximity to hiking, cultural opportunities, and left because the COL, traffic, and specific job opportunities I had, not "psychological, emotional, and psychic challenges". Your post sounds like you're just listing (stereotyped) negatives of every city. Living in the desert in peace sounds great for you but don't suggest that you have to be rich and famous, or "hip" whatever that is, in order to live in those cities.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17245
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:31 pm

mega317 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:37 am
2015 I think your posts reveal much more about you than cities or other people. I have lived in LA and yes some parts could be called "Disneyland" and some people might be "freaky" to you but overall it's just a crowded, expensive city with lots of things to do and traffic. I never felt "not 'all that' enough" but I wasn't trying to make it in entertainment or trying to get into nightclubs. I did feel "not 'all that' enough" in a medium-sized midwestern city when I was about 14. I enjoyed LA's weather, the beach, proximity to hiking, cultural opportunities, and left because the COL, traffic, and specific job opportunities I had, not "psychological, emotional, and psychic challenges". Your post sounds like you're just listing (stereotyped) negatives of every city. Living in the desert in peace sounds great for you but don't suggest that you have to be rich and famous, or "hip" whatever that is, in order to live in those cities.
Your response to 2015 is to the point. Perhaps, cities give out the vibes, but more likely we catch the vibes we are looking for.

I also picked up on the comment
2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:45 am
"]I shed and/or minimized what I viewed as low value adding relationships and activities, such that my high value relationships deepened and became more fulfilling while my high value activities added still additional value.
It's difficult to deepen relationships when you are separated from your friends by distance. It's easier to find like-minded people in a large city, because the pool is greater and you meet people when you are engaging in activities you enjoy.

Someone in the 3-comma club can build a mansion in the middle of nowhere and fly his friends in for dinner and conversation. But the rest of us do better living where the friends are.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

22twain
Posts: 1105
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:42 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by 22twain » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:49 pm

renue74 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm
If you're strictly looking for LCOL, I know of many small-ish cities in the South that would fit the bill, but I'm not sure I would live there because I would go crazy from lack of anything to do other than visit the local Wal-mart.
Small-college towns do have some cultural amenities. Probably not every night of the week, though. Also, many of the professors probably come from the Northeast, Midwest, and even the West Coast. Small-college teaching jobs attract a lot of applicants so professors there don't get too much choice over where to live if they want that kind of job. (The last time I did a job search, I had two interviews and one offer, which I accepted. I'm still there, now retired, more than thirty years later.)

Big-university towns are a different world, e.g. Clemson, Athens (UGA), Chapel Hill (UNC).

renue74
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by renue74 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:02 pm

22twain wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:49 pm
renue74 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm
If you're strictly looking for LCOL, I know of many small-ish cities in the South that would fit the bill, but I'm not sure I would live there because I would go crazy from lack of anything to do other than visit the local Wal-mart.
Small-college towns do have some cultural amenities. Probably not every night of the week, though. Also, many of the professors probably come from the Northeast, Midwest, and even the West Coast. Small-college teaching jobs attract a lot of applicants so professors there don't get too much choice over where to live if they want that kind of job. (The last time I did a job search, I had two interviews and one offer, which I accepted. I'm still there, now retired, more than thirty years later.)

Big-university towns are a different world, e.g. Clemson, Athens (UGA), Chapel Hill (UNC).
I live in a 60K population small southern town with a 6,000 student public college. You're correct, there are some cultural amenities, but as a town resident, you really have "work," to find them. There are exhibits, plays, and talks to be viewed. You may go months w/o hearing of anything enticing from the school. We have access to Charlotte, NC...only 20 minutes away.

I actually went to school at UNC-Chapel Hill in the mid 90s. Whatever interest you had...there was a group who would take you in. But, I also stayed in Chapel Hill a couple summers....and even there, after the 25,000+ students went home sometimes it was difficult to find things to do and Chapel Hill became a sleepy little town.

I guess you make of it what there is offered. I'm sure many folks here could live in the Artic and find plenty of stimulating things to do.

User avatar
Peter Foley
Posts: 4005
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:34 am
Location: Lake Wobegon

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Peter Foley » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:57 pm

Taking into consideration size and moderate climate, I would second the suggestion of Prescott/Prescott Valley.

So much depends on what your interests are.

User avatar
inittowinit
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:37 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by inittowinit » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:03 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:00 pm
What are the best cities to live in that are on the lower side of cost?
I've heard good things about Bozeman, Denver, Austin, Nashville, and Flagstaff. Any other recommendations?
There is a very cool website dedicated to helping people answer this exact question.

www.theearthawaits.com

2015
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by 2015 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:08 pm

mega317 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:37 am
2015 I think your posts reveal much more about you than cities or other people. I have lived in LA and yes some parts could be called "Disneyland" and some people might be "freaky" to you but overall it's just a crowded, expensive city with lots of things to do and traffic. I never felt "not 'all that' enough" but I wasn't trying to make it in entertainment or trying to get into nightclubs. I did feel "not 'all that' enough" in a medium-sized midwestern city when I was about 14. I enjoyed LA's weather, the beach, proximity to hiking, cultural opportunities, and left because the COL, traffic, and specific job opportunities I had, not "psychological, emotional, and psychic challenges". Your post sounds like you're just listing (stereotyped) negatives of every city. Living in the desert in peace sounds great for you but don't suggest that you have to be rich and famous, or "hip" whatever that is, in order to live in those cities.
You are correct, and I should have been more explicit. I was referring to specific subsets of cities (I recently met someone from DC who joked that everyone there says (stiffly) "I can't tell you what I do!!", meaning they're all so important with their political high level government clearance). All cities possess a certain psychology, a reason people are drawn there (Krishnamurti speaks to this as well). My point was its important to go deeper when considering location choices (I believe it's important to go deeper in all choices due to flaws in human decision making). MMM is an excellent example of someone who gave serious thought to his relocation choice.

In the case of Los Angeles, I was referring to the entertainment psychology subset in particular. Los Angeles is a big city, and of course not everyone is attempting to be rich, famous, and hip, but a many, many are, especially in the area where I live. There is a particular psychology that goes with this subset and it's almost impossible to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it (ask anyone who lives here, however, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about).

Personally, desert living is one option (I've considered others), but the chief consideration is ensuring whatever location I end up in feels like home. You are correct: what my post reveals about me is that I do not consider Los Angeles my home.

Slacker
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Slacker » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:21 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:31 pm
It's difficult to deepen relationships when you are separated from your friends by distance. It's easier to find like-minded people in a large city, because the pool is greater and you meet people when you are engaging in activities you enjoy.
Very insightful - maybe I should move back to Seattle. Not only did I enjoy the weather, but I found many like minded people there. I don't really find too many like minded people for me in the Phoenix area (DC was really great too).

I wonder how it will go for us when we finally take the gamble and move to SoCal (where my wife really wants to live more than any other place). We work from home and make decent incomes, I'd just hate to spend all my income on housing and taxes...(granted, DC and Seattle are almost as expensive).

livesoft
Posts: 56014
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by livesoft » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:31 pm

Everybody around you does not have to be like-minded. Indeed, a small island of like-minded people in a sea of adversaries can lead to quite a cult following deep relationships.
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

2015
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by 2015 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:34 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:31 pm
mega317 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:37 am
2015 I think your posts reveal much more about you than cities or other people. I have lived in LA and yes some parts could be called "Disneyland" and some people might be "freaky" to you but overall it's just a crowded, expensive city with lots of things to do and traffic. I never felt "not 'all that' enough" but I wasn't trying to make it in entertainment or trying to get into nightclubs. I did feel "not 'all that' enough" in a medium-sized midwestern city when I was about 14. I enjoyed LA's weather, the beach, proximity to hiking, cultural opportunities, and left because the COL, traffic, and specific job opportunities I had, not "psychological, emotional, and psychic challenges". Your post sounds like you're just listing (stereotyped) negatives of every city. Living in the desert in peace sounds great for you but don't suggest that you have to be rich and famous, or "hip" whatever that is, in order to live in those cities.
Your response to 2015 is to the point. Perhaps, cities give out the vibes, but more likely we catch the vibes we are looking for.

I also picked up on the comment
2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:45 am
"]I shed and/or minimized what I viewed as low value adding relationships and activities, such that my high value relationships deepened and became more fulfilling while my high value activities added still additional value.
It's difficult to deepen relationships when you are separated from your friends by distance. It's easier to find like-minded people in a large city, because the pool is greater and you meet people when you are engaging in activities you enjoy.

Someone in the 3-comma club can build a mansion in the middle of nowhere and fly his friends in for dinner and conversation. But the rest of us do better living where the friends are.

Victoria
In my experience, deepening relationships has nothing to do with distance or time, unless those relationships were superficial, although YMMV. I said nothing about being separated from friends by distance, as it's highly likely I won't be moving far from the SoCal basin (although far enough away to be away).

A mansion?? I'm downsizing! I'd be happy in a studio, or even renting a hotel where I don't have to clean the place (which I view as a low value activity!). I'm not interested in meeting "like-minded people" as those kinds of relationships no longer interest me. I have no issue making friends; in fact, it's the opposite. I've gotten to the point where I'm just honest with people now and simply tell them I don't have time (which is absolutely true) when I get invitations [edited to add: leaving more room/time for my most treasured relationships; hence, the deepening]. As you'll recall, Cal Newport discuses social invitations in Deep Work.

Again, I believe it's important for each of us to deeply examine all of our wants, needs, and desires with respect to the location that best suits us, and not approach this choice haphazardly based simply on cost or superficial considerations.
Last edited by 2015 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17245
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:36 pm

2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:08 pm
I was referring to specific subsets of cities (I recently met someone from DC who joked that everyone there says (stiffly) "I can't tell you what I do!!", meaning they're all so important with their political high level government clearance).
In the D.C. metropolitan area so many people have security clearances that there is no prestige in having it. A security clearance is not a political designation or a mark of status. People with security clearances really cannot talk about it. The only people who are annoyed with this are defense contractors who are trying to befriend Federal employees to get some advantages in bidding on Federal RFPs.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

User avatar
tcassette
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:20 pm
Location: Southeast Tennessee

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by tcassette » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:47 pm

Imbros wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:40 am
I have been looking at Chattanooga area lately due to reasonably better (better than Midwest) climate year-round, low cost of living and housing and no state income taxes. They are also phasing out taxes on dividend and interest income.
We moved to the Chattanooga area from Omaha, and the COL is definitely lower. Minimal state income tax on interest and dividends is being phased out slowly. Property taxes are much lower; other costs are similar. However, this part of TN is more conservative, less educated, and more religious than Omaha. There is much less cold weather and almost no snow compared to Omaha; summers are hot and humid in both places. This area seems to be getting more severe storms than in the past.

The big issue with Chattanooga is traffic if you have to commute to and from a job. Road planning and construction has not kept up with population and traffic growth, especially if you live east or north of town. Visit and ride around during rush hour before you make a decision. :shock:

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17245
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:49 pm

2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:34 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:31 pm
mega317 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:37 am
2015 I think your posts reveal much more about you than cities or other people. I have lived in LA and yes some parts could be called "Disneyland" and some people might be "freaky" to you but overall it's just a crowded, expensive city with lots of things to do and traffic. I never felt "not 'all that' enough" but I wasn't trying to make it in entertainment or trying to get into nightclubs. I did feel "not 'all that' enough" in a medium-sized midwestern city when I was about 14. I enjoyed LA's weather, the beach, proximity to hiking, cultural opportunities, and left because the COL, traffic, and specific job opportunities I had, not "psychological, emotional, and psychic challenges". Your post sounds like you're just listing (stereotyped) negatives of every city. Living in the desert in peace sounds great for you but don't suggest that you have to be rich and famous, or "hip" whatever that is, in order to live in those cities.
Your response to 2015 is to the point. Perhaps, cities give out the vibes, but more likely we catch the vibes we are looking for.

I also picked up on the comment
2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:45 am
"]I shed and/or minimized what I viewed as low value adding relationships and activities, such that my high value relationships deepened and became more fulfilling while my high value activities added still additional value.
It's difficult to deepen relationships when you are separated from your friends by distance. It's easier to find like-minded people in a large city, because the pool is greater and you meet people when you are engaging in activities you enjoy.

Someone in the 3-comma club can build a mansion in the middle of nowhere and fly his friends in for dinner and conversation. But the rest of us do better living where the friends are.

Victoria
In my experience, deepening relationships has nothing to do with distance or time, unless those relationships were superficial, although YMMV. I said nothing about being separated from friends by distance, as it's highly likely I won't be moving far from the SoCal basin (although far enough away to be away).
True (not superficial) relationships are a required condition for meaningful relationships. But face-to-face meetings are instrumental for maintaining and deepening meaningful relationships. Email, Facebook and alike are a poor substitution for a physical interaction with a friend. However, if you remain within driving distance from your friends, this is not an issue. This was not clear from your previous message.
2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:34 pm
A mansion?? I'm downsizing! I'd be happy in a studio, or even renting a hotel where I don't have to clean the place (which I view as a low value activity!). I'm not interested in meeting "like-minded people" as those kinds of relationships no longer interest me. I have no issue making friends; in fact, it's the opposite. I've gotten to the point where I'm just honest with people now and simply tell them I don't have time (which is absolutely true) when I get invitations [edited to add: leaving more room/time for my most treasured relationships; hence, the deepening]. As you'll recall, Cal Newport discuses social invitations in Deep Work.
Cal Newport strongly objects to the electronic invasions into one's life and he advocates protecting one's time to do deep work. But I don't recall him avoiding social invitations. What was the context? Not socializing with people you don't really like? Not socializing when you are working on solving a complex mathematical problem?
2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:34 pm
Again, I believe it's important for each of us to deeply examine all of our wants, needs, and desires with respect to the location that best suits us, and not approach this choice haphazardly based simply on cost or superficial considerations.
I definitely agree wit this. Still, the value of these discussions is in providing some context and details to our preferences.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

CFM300
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:13 am

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by CFM300 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:21 pm

2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:08 pm
In the case of Los Angeles, I was referring to the entertainment psychology subset in particular. Los Angeles is a big city, and of course not everyone is attempting to be rich, famous, and hip, but a many, many are, especially in the area where I live. There is a particular psychology that goes with this subset and it's almost impossible to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it (ask anyone who lives here, however, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about).
I agree. I know exactly what you're talking about. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

User avatar
TimeRunner
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by TimeRunner » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:51 pm

CFM300 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:21 pm
2015 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:08 pm
In the case of Los Angeles, I was referring to the entertainment psychology subset in particular. Los Angeles is a big city, and of course not everyone is attempting to be rich, famous, and hip, but a many, many are, especially in the area where I live. There is a particular psychology that goes with this subset and it's almost impossible to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it (ask anyone who lives here, however, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about).
I agree. I know exactly what you're talking about. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Me too. I loved 2015's posts. I can almost hear Gladys Knight singing "Midnight Train to Georgia" (L.A. proved too much for the man....) :)
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | Endurance athletes are the Bogleheads of sports. | "I like people - I just don't want to be around 'em." - Russell Gordy

bradshaw1965
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:36 pm

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by bradshaw1965 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:06 pm

rgs92 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Atlanta seemed really nice to me, especially if you still need to work. Houses are pretty cheap. You can find a very nice 4 bedroom house in a nice subdivision in the suburbs for about $450K and only about $5000 property taxes (more or less on these costs, depending on the town).
The weather is not extreme and there are all the modern amenities you would need.
Also, it seems pretty cosmopolitan to me.
Intown Atlanta is pretty vibrant and livable but is getting expensive. Suburbs are going to have significant traffic problems if your move involves a commute.

User avatar
Ruprecht
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:34 pm
Location: a very nice cardboard box
Contact:

Re: Best Lower Cost USA Cities to Live

Post by Ruprecht » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:20 pm

new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:49 am

Church. Everybody goes to church. What's more, they ask you what church you attend-- where I come from that would be seen as rude and intrusive.

Bingo. High school sports events are still a big thing-- loyalty to the local team.

I used to marvel at the red light bookstores in trailers -- I think that had something to do with town laws, so they were placed just outside town or county boundaries.

I don't know how many counties are still dry, but the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county, though (TN).
This is exactly why I can't move to the deep south. TX is about as close as I can get. Southerns want you to believe they are hospitable to everyone, unless you go to the church on the other side of town. No government intrusion in your life - except I can't buy liquor on Sundays for some reason. Nothing to do so let's all go watch the high school football... what's a museum? And the amount of adult type shops littered along the highway, I guess family values end at the city limits.
The two of you obviously know very little about the South. What you're describing might apply to super-tiny villages but doesn't apply to any city larger than, say, 50,000 people.

Whoops. Sorry, I meant to say, "you're right, this place sucks. Stay away at all costs, and please tell all of your friends to stay away, too."

Post Reply