gratuitous homeownership items

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cockersx3
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby cockersx3 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:23 pm

Great thread! I find the variations of opinions very interesting - there are things that some posters regard as gratuitous that I couldn't live without, and vise versa.

For me, gratuitous items include:

  • Jetted tub. My wife is a "bath person" and we've always had houses with large bathtubs that she uses constantly. However, our most recent house had a jetted tub and she never used it - too much noise, and they can get dirty and break down if not used frequently.
  • Formal living room. Never used them.
  • Formal dining rooms. Very rarely do we ever use these for their intended purpose. Right now, my wife has all her crafting / scrapbooking supplies laied out over our dining room table.
  • Finished basement. Thought we'd use it more in our current home, but nobody ever goes down there.
  • A large yard. Our kids are older and like to either go outside and walk around our neighborhood, or they stay inside and use electronics. Our current home has a smaller yard but lots of bushes for privacy AND a park that the kids can walk to, which is fine with us.

On the other hand, here are some of my high-value items that others have labelled gratuitous IIRC:
  • Wired Ethernet. My experience is that this is faster than wireless and generally more reliable.
  • Home office. The key for me is that it needs to be on the main floor, close to where the rest of the family will congregate. We have historically used an extra bedroom as an office and we never used it. Our current home has the office on the main floor, and it gets used constantly.
  • Granite. Easy to clean and very solid.
  • Large kitchen and master bedroom.
  • Bathtub - as per above, this is a must have for the wife. Just no jets :-)

Cash
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Cash » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:07 pm

livesoft wrote:We don't squeegee the glass door because that's what the maids do.


The repeated mentioning of glass shower doors confuses me. We have had glass shower doors in all of our bathrooms for the past 8 years (2 condos and now a house). We have never squeegeed anything. The cleaners clean them when they clean, and they look fine.

bluebolt
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby bluebolt » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:18 pm

Cash wrote:
livesoft wrote:We don't squeegee the glass door because that's what the maids do.


The repeated mentioning of glass shower doors confuses me. We have had glass shower doors in all of our bathrooms for the past 8 years (2 condos and now a house). We have never squeegeed anything. The cleaners clean them when they clean, and they look fine.

Do you have hard water? If you do, occasional cleaning might not be enough and squeegeeing could be necessary.

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Go Blue 99
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Go Blue 99 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:48 pm

Our useless features:

- big tub in master bath. Never used in 9 years
- fireplace in master bedroom. Never used in 9 years

Things we love:

- master-sized guest bedroom downstairs. Very useful for all the guests we have had over the years.
- family room layout that allowed us to put our tv on a stand, and not above the fireplace mantle. I dislike high
Tvs.
- having a powder room downstairs. So our guests don't have to share their bathroom with other people.

This was an inventory home so we didn't get to pick anything.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby TomatoTomahto » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:05 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Cash wrote:
livesoft wrote:We don't squeegee the glass door because that's what the maids do.


The repeated mentioning of glass shower doors confuses me. We have had glass shower doors in all of our bathrooms for the past 8 years (2 condos and now a house). We have never squeegeed anything. The cleaners clean them when they clean, and they look fine.

Do you have hard water? If you do, occasional cleaning might not be enough and squeegeeing could be necessary.


Now that you mention it, I wonder if I have to continue squeegeeing now that we have a water softener. Nvm, it's a habit by now, and can't hurt.

Mudpuppy
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Mudpuppy » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:05 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Cash wrote:
livesoft wrote:We don't squeegee the glass door because that's what the maids do.


The repeated mentioning of glass shower doors confuses me. We have had glass shower doors in all of our bathrooms for the past 8 years (2 condos and now a house). We have never squeegeed anything. The cleaners clean them when they clean, and they look fine.

Do you have hard water? If you do, occasional cleaning might not be enough and squeegeeing could be necessary.

Even with hard water, you can get away without the squeegee if the glass is frosted, particularly if it's textured and frosted. You won't notice the hard water spots on frosted glass like you would on clear glass. I have hard water, but my shower doors have frosted and textured glass, so I never bother with a squeegee. I just alternate cleanings between bleach-based shower cleaner (mildew control) and scale-remover (hard water spots). I also rinse off the entire shower stall at the end of the shower to get soap residual off the walls and doors, so there's not soap spots everywhere. Soap spots are very noticeable.

letsgobobby
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby letsgobobby » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:31 pm

I guess we are one of those funny homeowners who regularly use our gas fireplaces (all 3 of them), jetted tub (more than weekly), and central vac (it helps to have the newer lighter hoses, and we love the kitchen sweep feature - don't need a dustpan).

momvesting
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby momvesting » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:19 pm

Our old house had this huge, 2-person jetted tub. Unfortunately the 40 gallon hot water heater wouldn't fill it.

livesoft
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby livesoft » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:23 pm

momvesting wrote:Our old house had this huge, 2-person jetted tub. Unfortunately the 40 gallon hot water heater wouldn't fill it.

Yes, but one adds cold water to hot so one doesn't scald themselves.
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seychellois_lib
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby seychellois_lib » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:54 pm

deleted

Cruise
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Cruise » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:47 am

alloykat wrote: Does anyone have a view (ocean, city lights, etc) that got old after awhile?


We bought our home for the view, and after 25 years, it never gets old.

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mrc
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby mrc » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:32 am

livesoft wrote:
momvesting wrote:Our old house had this huge, 2-person jetted tub. Unfortunately the 40 gallon hot water heater wouldn't fill it.

Yes, but one adds cold water to hot so one doesn't scald themselves.


Still, a 40g heater set to a safe 120 degrees cannot deliver enough hot water to fill a large ~70g tub, and keep it topped off at around 104°. At least not in our case. 40g@120° + 30g@55° ~ 70g@92° Even setting the heater to 140 didn't resolve, but it sure made doing dishes in the kitchen sink tricky!

With all the heat loss from the tub itself, only lukewarm water comes from the tap after the tub is about half full.
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Rupert
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Rupert » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:11 am

Mudpuppy wrote:
bluebolt wrote:
Cash wrote:
livesoft wrote:We don't squeegee the glass door because that's what the maids do.


The repeated mentioning of glass shower doors confuses me. We have had glass shower doors in all of our bathrooms for the past 8 years (2 condos and now a house). We have never squeegeed anything. The cleaners clean them when they clean, and they look fine.

Do you have hard water? If you do, occasional cleaning might not be enough and squeegeeing could be necessary.

Even with hard water, you can get away without the squeegee if the glass is frosted, particularly if it's textured and frosted. You won't notice the hard water spots on frosted glass like you would on clear glass. I have hard water, but my shower doors have frosted and textured glass, so I never bother with a squeegee. I just alternate cleanings between bleach-based shower cleaner (mildew control) and scale-remover (hard water spots). I also rinse off the entire shower stall at the end of the shower to get soap residual off the walls and doors, so there's not soap spots everywhere. Soap spots are very noticeable.


Or you could just spray RainX on them from time to time and forget about it.

chuckb84
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby chuckb84 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:40 am

We're just 5 months into our retirement home, but already I can tell:

Gratuitous:

Large jetted tub in master bath. We use the shower. Water is expensive here so I bet this tub is almost never used.
Fireplace in master bedroom. It looked astonishingly clean when we bought the house. Now I know why.
Pellet stove in den. So gratuitous we removed it. Radiant floor heat is fine without it.
1990's vintage alarm and intercom. Eventually I'll remove all that and have the panels sheet rocked over and painted.
3 extra bedrooms. Nice for guests, but we could have gotten by with 2 bedrooms.

Great:

The view(s) from all around the house.
High ceilings and ceiling fans.
1st floor home office.
Kiva fireplaces in the living room and dining room. These are nice, but tricky to get started without smoking out the room.
Landscaped .3 acre lot that is somehow private and has views.
Drip irrigation system for backyard garden.
A double garage!! Somehow I reached age 62 without ever owning a home with a garage!!

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HomerJ
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby HomerJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:53 am

Cruise wrote:
alloykat wrote: Does anyone have a view (ocean, city lights, etc) that got old after awhile?


We bought our home for the view, and after 25 years, it never gets old.


This for us also. Never gotten tired of the view of woods or the lake.

I lived for several years in downtown apartments with no view. I lived for many years in suburban homes where my backyard view was my neighbor's house.

Now I live in a house that backs up to woods and a creek, and I've never gotten tired of the view.

btenny
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby btenny » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:56 am

Having a whole second home.

Easy Rhino
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Easy Rhino » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:56 pm

we've only been in our house for over 3 years.

We didn't think we'd use the fireplace... and we haven't. although some bees tried to start a hive in there one time, which required a bee removal company.

A downstairs, large finished "bonus room" hasn't been used effectively. Our daughter's only 4 so we want to keep her around us (which means kitchen or living room), and it's not connected to the HVAC system so it's usually cold down there.

The large, but mostly barren yard, hasn't been great. Lots of potential, but we don't have the money or time to act on it.

The propane grill and patio table. I learned I don't like grilling, and dinner time often coincides with bug time.

The small garage wasn't as useful as we thought. We learned it was so small we could either do laundry, or park a small car, but not both. We chose laundry.

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verbose
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby verbose » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:41 pm

We had our house built and the following are frequently-used and NOT gratuitous:

- Jetted tub in master bath, used daily
- Formal dining room, so many memories here of parties and special family dinners
- Gas fireplace, the cats love it more than anyone else, it doesn't heat the house, but it's a pick-me-up on cold nights
- Guest room, for our-of-town family visitors, used probably 6x / year
- Finished basement, for the kids and friends, I tell the loud kids "go down there and stay down there"
- Windows, our house has a lot of them and the neighborhood architect made us add more that we didn't want, but we love them all now

We only spent money on what we really wanted, so there shouldn't be much. But here are gratuitous features:

- Backyard, already very small but we don't use it at all. It's just a fenced-in patch of weeds with a small patio holding the grill and trash cans. We want to add a deck but it's not clear if that will change our usage. Mosquitos are a big problem.

- Front gardens, and this is sad because I wanted them so much. The rabbits won. The gardens are still there, very pathetic-looking, because I surrendered to the hordes of ravenous bunnies.

- Every single outdoor toy/fixture we ever bought for the kids, especially that stupid wood playground that we finally demolished a few years ago. The wood playground constantly attracted wasps. Even when properly sealed, the wasps still flew over to check it out. Completely unusable.

seychellois_lib
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby seychellois_lib » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm

Gratuitous:

Over complicated appliances as previously mentioned
Too much square footage - Wife and I are perfectly comfortable in 1550 square feet. As a matter of fact, I am comfortable in 70 square feet of sailboat cabin.
Fireplace - PO removed it and expanded the LR, good decision IMO
Big Yard - unless great yard is also the great view
Bathtubs - but RE agents tell me I have to keep one. I would like to have zero.

Not Gratuitous

View (a well protected one)
Having a dock for my boat
Small yard
Big deck overlooking the water
Nicely designed walk in closet

My choices are very much lifestyle related.

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Clever_Username
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Clever_Username » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:19 pm

seychellois_lib wrote:Bathtubs - but RE agents tell me I have to keep one. I would like to have zero.


What's the deal with this anyhow? I keep hearing it. Is it related to resale value that there's at least one "full" bathroom?
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CAsage
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby CAsage » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:37 pm

Wonderful thread! Gratuitous item: Dedicated media room. Waste of space, just deal with putting a TV in the family room. Bathtub in the cramped poorly laid out master bath - I can't wait to rip that out and put in a bigger shower (with grab bars for my future decline :? ). Also, we were blessed with a HUGE corner fireplace with a sort of hideous weird tree of life design of lava rock taking over 1/3 of the family room - ripping that out got rid of the nightmare which spewed ashes across the family room whenever the heater kicked on... Best improvements? Adding a privacy trellis on top of the block wall between me and my least favorite neighbor... and the back side, which blocked ghastly views of everyone else's ugly garage or rear yard. Takes time to tune a house to meet your needs!

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby TomatoTomahto » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:16 am

Clever_Username wrote:
seychellois_lib wrote:Bathtubs - but RE agents tell me I have to keep one. I would like to have zero.


What's the deal with this anyhow? I keep hearing it. Is it related to resale value that there's at least one "full" bathroom?

I think that the idea is that, in order to appeal to families with young kids, you need at least one bathtub. We still have one, unused for more than a decade.

Kitty Telltales
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Kitty Telltales » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:04 am

Cash wrote:
livesoft wrote:We don't squeegee the glass door because that's what the maids do.


The repeated mentioning of glass shower doors confuses me. We have had glass shower doors in all of our bathrooms for the past 8 years (2 condos and now a house). We have never squeegeed anything. The cleaners clean them when they clean, and they look fine.


This of course depends on the hardness of your water. If we didn't squeegee every time, you wouldn't be able to see through the glass in a week. On the other had, I've tend to believe that our mineral rich water is our fountain of youth. My elderly neighbors seem full of energy and in good health.

Love my bathtub, but the original owners put the shower in bath on middle level near kitchen and living room. Wish I could change that. We converted a small bedroom into a huge walk in closet. Love that change.
Last edited by Kitty Telltales on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

why3not
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby why3not » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:22 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Clever_Username wrote:
seychellois_lib wrote:Bathtubs - but RE agents tell me I have to keep one. I would like to have zero.


What's the deal with this anyhow? I keep hearing it. Is it related to resale value that there's at least one "full" bathroom?

I think that the idea is that, in order to appeal to families with young kids, you need at least one bathtub. We still have one, unused for more than a decade.

Or young grand-kids, or nieces/nephews, or anyone who might be staying with you with young kids. Plus, you never know, the folks looking to buy your house could just "need' a bathtub. My wife would never consider buying a home without a bathtub for her personal occasional use.

Rupert
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Rupert » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:08 am

Clever_Username wrote:
seychellois_lib wrote:Bathtubs - but RE agents tell me I have to keep one. I would like to have zero.


What's the deal with this anyhow? I keep hearing it. Is it related to resale value that there's at least one "full" bathroom?


You don't have kids, do you?

Barefootgirl
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Barefootgirl » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:32 am

Not gratuitous, but worth it - after years of typical urban views (other buildings), I now have an upper floor with a sweeping view of the area - it provides glorious sunrises many mornings and interesting views in the evening (farther off fireworks displays, large jets arriving from international destinations - and of course, weather).

I love it and it's worth every penny to me....I spend many of my working hours in that room with the view.
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seychellois_lib
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby seychellois_lib » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:52 am

CAsage wrote:Wonderful thread! Gratuitous item: Dedicated media room. Waste of space, just deal with putting a TV in the family room. Bathtub in the cramped poorly laid out master bath - I can't wait to rip that out and put in a bigger shower (with grab bars for my future decline :? ). Also, we were blessed with a HUGE corner fireplace with a sort of hideous weird tree of life design of lava rock taking over 1/3 of the family room - ripping that out got rid of the nightmare which spewed ashes across the family room whenever the heater kicked on... Best improvements? Adding a privacy trellis on top of the block wall between me and my least favorite neighbor... and the back side, which blocked ghastly views of everyone else's ugly garage or rear yard. Takes time to tune a house to meet your needs!


Re grab bars. I injured my leg and was having a hard tine getting to my feet when showering. I bought a few portable grab bars (big suction cups either end) so I had some support in the shower without having to drill holes. These are highly non-gratuitous because they can easily be removed. They can also be adjusted for height and location. Best $20 I have spent on the house. You do need a relatively smooth surface in the shower area.

Valuethinker
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Valuethinker » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:14 pm

DireWolf wrote:I also consider an alarm system an absolute necessity. People nowadays have no respect for human life. In the event of a home invasion, the alarm gives us the precious seconds we need to retrieve our weapons and dispose of the intruders.


Interestingly US murder rates are less than half they were in 1990?

Down to early 1960s level

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

Do you live somewhere particularly dangerous? South Side Chicago?

I guess it depends where you live, but what does any of us have worthy of stealing now?

I live in a big (but very safe) city (London, England). Of course our murder rate is very low compared to USA*. Breakins? They go after car keys. There's no point stealing electronics (you can't steal a wall television; stereos aren't worth much) except iphones (we don't happen to have, and when we are out, we have the iphones).

Computers? A stolen laptop might be worth £100. Perhaps greater danger re identity theft? Still easier to steal it from a coffee shop table.

Prescription drugs? Opiates just aren't big here. Would many homes where you live have prescription pharma worth stealing?

Guns? You'd need to find someone with a gun license, and of course be able to crack their gun safe (legal requirement). I suppose it is done (mostly to steal shotguns). Do most Americans have guns worth stealing that cannot be bought on the open market?

Jewelry, watches & cash? Certain ethnic groups are reputed to have lots of same as home -- there has been a gang knocking down front doors with motorbikes, supposedly in search of same (they'd be pretty disappointed here).

Car keys. Basically they break in to steal car keys. Quick check in the bedroom for jewelry or watches or cash, I guess.

The crime of burglary is just becoming obsolete unless you target the very wealthy (there's been a rash of breakins targetting football players' homes (soccer) on game days, when their families will be attending the games).-

* someone was murdered (with a knife) at the fast food joint at the end of the road. So it is not nil, at least not in this 'hood. But you are much more likely to be mown down crossing the road, I suspect.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Valuethinker
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Valuethinker » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:19 pm

Couple of people mentioned alarm systems.

My observation from urban London is:

- people pay no more attention to neighbours' alarms than we do to car alarms (i.e. not at all)

- police pay no attention to them at all

What alarms are is incredibly annoying to everyone else. Typically they are oversensitive, go off with the wind, etc. And intermittent once triggered.

If I could find a burglar when a house alarm is triggered, and pay them to go in and turn it off, I would ;-).

queso
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby queso » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:41 pm

I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.

On the topic of a crime ridden area, do you think Cheshire, CT is a particularly dangerous area? I bet if you were to ask William Petit if he wished he would have had an alarm and would have been in the habit of setting it before he went to bed at night he would give you a very different answer than he might have given pre-2007.

Rupert
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Rupert » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:09 pm

queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


+1. I couldn't care less if my neighbors hear or ignore my alarm. I use it to protect my family while we're home and to monitor my house for fire. My fire and smoke detectors are hard-wired into my alarm system, and I've had the alarm go off after a lightening strike at my house. The monitoring service called the fire department before calling me, and the fire department was at my house before I left my office. My house could have burned to the ground without that alarm system. It was in the middle of the day, and none of my neighbors were home.

No offense, Valuethinker, but urban London is not urban USA. Here, unfortunately, you must assume that the person smashing through your door or crawling through your window in the middle of the night has a gun and will shoot you for no reason. Burglary is the number one crime that people are sent to prison for in my state (and every other state that I'm aware of). So burglary is definitely not obsolete here.

queso
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby queso » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:19 pm

Rupert wrote:
queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


+1. I couldn't care less if my neighbors hear or ignore my alarm. I use it to protect my family while we're home and to monitor my house for fire. My fire and smoke detectors are hard-wired into my alarm system, and I've had the alarm go off after a lightening strike at my house. The monitoring service called the fire department before calling me, and the fire department was at my house before I left my office. My house could have burned to the ground without that alarm system. It was in the middle of the day, and none of my neighbors were home.

No offense, Valuethinker, but urban London is not urban USA. Here, unfortunately, you must assume that the person smashing through your door or crawling through your window in the middle of the night has a gun and will shoot you for no reason. Burglary is the number one crime that people are sent to prison for in my state (and every other state that I'm aware of). So burglary is definitely not obsolete here.

I didn't mention the fire/smoke aspect, but I agree with Rupert wholeheartedly that that aspect of a monitored system is arguably more important than the burglar exemplar. A burglar might smash into my house in the middle of the day and grab a few things. That sucks, but stuff is replaceable and he/she isn't likely to steal my family photos or harm my pets (unless they try to stop him/her which at least one or two of them would definitely try to do). A fire, however, is a whole other matter and could leave me completely possessionless and kill my pets in no time at all if nobody notices it and calls the fire department. I don't know what the likelihood of either is statistically, but the potential damages from a fire far outweigh even the craftiest burglar. To me, protecting my possessions is only a tertiary benefit of an alarm. We have insurance and stuff can be replaced. It's the early warning notification of an intruder where my family may be in danger and the early call to the fire department when nobody is home that are the primary benefits. You can also add water monitoring and camera functionality as well as a host of other interesting add-ons, but I do most of those with third party solutions since they are more cost effective and less critical.

patgrennan
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby patgrennan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:26 pm

Ok, here’s my list;
We moved from a 3200 sq house to much smaller in 2014. I was in shock from the lack of storage and where to put everything.
Unnecessary features in old house and new house include:
1) jetted tub in master bath. Waste of money, do not bother. Get rid of any bathtub do not bother, they are expensive to fill and collect dust.
2) My husband insisted we get a central vac installed, I hate it. Too hard to manage, get a shark and call it good.

Features I like now and missed from the old house:
1) Dining room, I am without one now and finally miss it.
2) INSTANT HOT DEVICE…THEY ARE PROBLEMATIC BUT OH HOW I MISS IT.
3) Large laundry room I have a shoebox now.
3) Gas fireplace use it all the time here in the Pacific Northwest.

Positive NEW FEATURES:
CENTRAL VAC KICK PLATE THAT ACTS LIKE A DUSTPAN…VERY COOL.
NEST THERMOSTAT, we installed.

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Clever_Username
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Clever_Username » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:51 pm

Thank you everyone for the explanation of the bathtub issue. It makes sense and I'll be sure to keep one in my house.

Rupert wrote:
Clever_Username wrote:
seychellois_lib wrote:Bathtubs - but RE agents tell me I have to keep one. I would like to have zero.


What's the deal with this anyhow? I keep hearing it. Is it related to resale value that there's at least one "full" bathroom?


You don't have kids, do you?


Correct.
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, [i]Layer Cake[/i]

alfaspider
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby alfaspider » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:29 pm

Rupert wrote:
queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


+1. I couldn't care less if my neighbors hear or ignore my alarm. I use it to protect my family while we're home and to monitor my house for fire. My fire and smoke detectors are hard-wired into my alarm system, and I've had the alarm go off after a lightening strike at my house. The monitoring service called the fire department before calling me, and the fire department was at my house before I left my office. My house could have burned to the ground without that alarm system. It was in the middle of the day, and none of my neighbors were home.

No offense, Valuethinker, but urban London is not urban USA. Here, unfortunately, you must assume that the person smashing through your door or crawling through your window in the middle of the night has a gun and will shoot you for no reason. Burglary is the number one crime that people are sent to prison for in my state (and every other state that I'm aware of). So burglary is definitely not obsolete here.


I live in Texas. While I agree that burglary is rationally obsolete, it still happens, mostly because criminals are not rational. I suppose if they were fully rational, they wouldn't be criminals in the first place. That said, every burglary that I've had even tangential connection to occurred when the homeowners were calculated not to be home. Breaking in during the night when everyone is most likely to be home is idiotic, even for idiot criminals, and consequentially most burglaries seem to happen during the day by people posing as tradesmen. In the extremely unlikely event that someone with a gun does break in at night, I'm not particularly convinced early warning will do me much good. If I confront an armed person with a gun, they are more likely to pull the trigger immediately rather than just using it to intimidate. My house is constructed in such a way that it would be rather difficult to escape without confronting the burglar. Probably best if the burglar just tries to do their business without waking me. I don't really care about physical property- only health and safety. Nothing I own that can be carried out by hand is all that valuable, and I have insurance in any event that limits any financial losses to a manageable amount.

I'm sure many can point to various anecdotes of home invasions or situations where an alarm system may have been beneficial. But the same could be said of many other highly unlikely scenarios. If your goal is to protect your family from tragedy, your best bet is probably buying safer cars and making sure your smoke/carbon monoxide alarms are fully functional.

Tying it all back to BH, Alarm companies charge quite a bit of money for doing very little. I wouldn't mind a one-time fee, but the $40+ monthly fee for simply forwarding the alarm to the police is ridiculous and gratuitous in my opinion. That's almost $15k for the service over the course of a 30-year mortgage.

obgraham
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby obgraham » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:28 pm

To me, "the view" is an over-rated item. We had a great view when we built halfway up a hillside, looked out over the whole town.

Big deal. I didn't spend a lot of time telling myself "what a great view". Now when we downsized into a tract home, much easier to take care of, my "view" is of the street and three neighbors houses. It suits us just fine.

Likewise, nix on the granite. Formica for us!

True asocial Luddites!

alfaspider
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby alfaspider » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:26 pm

obgraham wrote:To me, "the view" is an over-rated item. We had a great view when we built halfway up a hillside, looked out over the whole town.

Big deal. I didn't spend a lot of time telling myself "what a great view". Now when we downsized into a tract home, much easier to take care of, my "view" is of the street and three neighbors houses. It suits us just fine.

Likewise, nix on the granite. Formica for us!

True asocial Luddites!


I have totally the opposite view of these. Currently live in a place where a view isn't really an option (no hills and not much to see), but I still think of my college apartment fondly with its mountain views. It was a cheap place, but waking up to the mountains every morning made it worth so much more than the rent. With a nice deck, a view can be the real centerpiece of the house- where you go to relax every day after work.

Church Lady
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Church Lady » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:58 pm

My house had a fish pond which was great fun for a couple years. I didn't mind caring for it, but maintaining a fish pond is an art unsuited to persons with full time jobs. It started looking like something from a horror movie! It's gone now, and I won't be getting another one.

I use my full size oven once a year at Christmas, or when outside temperatures dip below 10 degrees F. Other than that, the oven heats the house too much. Microwaves, slow cookers, pressure cookers, bread machines, counter top ovens .. is the full size oven obsolete?
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity. Ecclesiastes 1:8

Miakis
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Miakis » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:05 pm

I might be in the minority here, but I actually like my jetted tub and still use it after 13 years. We also use our gas fireplace daily in cold weather.

The most annoying thing in my house: there's a lightbulb up on the vaulted ceilings that needs a special extra-high contractor grade ladder to reach. So yeah... we need to actually hire someone to change a lightbulb in our house. The vaulted ceilings also catch a lot of dust if the ceiling fan is used and are inefficient to cool. So... if there was one "selling point" of my house that I would absolutely erase - those stupid vaulted ceilings are right there at the top of my list.

The formal sitting room is pretty useless - but I've considered converting ours into an office. I have also used it for meeting clients when I met them in my home.

The large yard is kind of a pain in the butt. I'm even a gardener... it's just too much space.

stoptothink
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby stoptothink » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:44 pm

obgraham wrote:To me, "the view" is an over-rated item. We had a great view when we built halfway up a hillside, looked out over the whole town.

Big deal. I didn't spend a lot of time telling myself "what a great view". Now when we downsized into a tract home, much easier to take care of, my "view" is of the street and three neighbors houses. It suits us just fine.

Likewise, nix on the granite. Formica for us!

True asocial Luddites!


Completely agree. I've never looked out my bedroom window (which looks directly across the street onto my neighbor's house) and thought, "gee, I wish there was something cool to look at here, so I would be encouraged to spend more time doing nothing but staring out of this window". Good view usually means there is a lot of outdoors adventures to be had nearby (huge plus for me), but a view in and of itself is essentially valueless to me.

obgraham
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby obgraham » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:55 am

there's a lightbulb up on the vaulted ceilings

Wow, I forgot that one. I bought a "Parade" home once, into which the builder had stuck all sorts of glitzy but useless fru-frah. Weird bathroom faucets and a rough slate kitchen floor which was impossible to clean.

The worst was that vaulted living room ceiling. Not only was there a light bulb way up there, but also a fire/smoke detector. Needless to say, it started beeping one night when I hated it the most. I had to rent a huge ladder to get up there. But only once: it was pulled out after its first offense.

Lessons learned -- didn't last long in that house.

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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Mudpuppy » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:37 am

obgraham wrote:
there's a lightbulb up on the vaulted ceilings

Wow, I forgot that one. I bought a "Parade" home once, into which the builder had stuck all sorts of glitzy but useless fru-frah. Weird bathroom faucets and a rough slate kitchen floor which was impossible to clean.

The worst was that vaulted living room ceiling. Not only was there a light bulb way up there, but also a fire/smoke detector. Needless to say, it started beeping one night when I hated it the most. I had to rent a huge ladder to get up there. But only once: it was pulled out after its first offense.

Lessons learned -- didn't last long in that house.

Now imagine a light like that in the stairwell of a public building where maintenance treats tall ladders akin to rare unicorns that have to be summoned with an archaic chant known only to one. Then imagine both stairwells in said building have a light out on different landings, with maintenance ignoring your repeated calls about the safety hazard, to the point that you have to escalate to upper-management when a full week has passed with neither light replaced... and it still takes maintenance another week to replace them.

Then you're living my work life. I wonder what the architect was thinking to have only one light in those portions of the stairwells and why they located said single light on the underside of the next story of the stairwell instead of putting the lights part-way up the walls where regular ladders could reach them. But then this was the same architect who put exposed beams in the middle of windows and hallways for "style", so practical functionality was not high on the architectural feature list.

Valuethinker
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Valuethinker » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:27 am

alfaspider wrote:
Rupert wrote:
queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


+1. I couldn't care less if my neighbors hear or ignore my alarm. I use it to protect my family while we're home and to monitor my house for fire. My fire and smoke detectors are hard-wired into my alarm system, and I've had the alarm go off after a lightening strike at my house. The monitoring service called the fire department before calling me, and the fire department was at my house before I left my office. My house could have burned to the ground without that alarm system. It was in the middle of the day, and none of my neighbors were home.

No offense, Valuethinker, but urban London is not urban USA. Here, unfortunately, you must assume that the person smashing through your door or crawling through your window in the middle of the night has a gun and will shoot you for no reason. Burglary is the number one crime that people are sent to prison for in my state (and every other state that I'm aware of). So burglary is definitely not obsolete here.


I live in Texas. While I agree that burglary is rationally obsolete, it still happens, mostly because criminals are not rational. I suppose if they were fully rational, they wouldn't be criminals in the first place. That said, every burglary that I've had even tangential connection to occurred when the homeowners were calculated not to be home. Breaking in during the night when everyone is most likely to be home is idiotic, even for idiot criminals, and consequentially most burglaries seem to happen during the day by people posing as tradesmen. In the extremely unlikely event that someone with a gun does break in at night, I'm not particularly convinced early warning will do me much good. If I confront an armed person with a gun, they are more likely to pull the trigger immediately rather than just using it to intimidate. My house is constructed in such a way that it would be rather difficult to escape without confronting the burglar. Probably best if the burglar just tries to do their business without waking me. I don't really care about physical property- only health and safety. Nothing I own that can be carried out by hand is all that valuable, and I have insurance in any event that limits any financial losses to a manageable amount.


http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/ar ... 08867.html

the poster here, "Old Jarhead", is a former US Marine. The point he is making is having a gun is not enough, and waving it in someone's face makes them more not less dangerous.

You have to be prepared to shoot-- a process which military and law enforcement people undertake many hours of training to be able to do regardless of their own mental state or circumstances, it's not as easy as it looks in the movies to shoot another human being. You have to then be prepared for the legal process which will result-- I realize some US states are OK about shooting intruders but I suspect some are not? And even if the jury exonnerates you, it's a long road to that trial.

And you have to be cognizant of the risks of loaded, ready-to-use weapons around the house, and that you might inadvertently shoot someone you don't want to.

I'm sure many can point to various anecdotes of home invasions or situations where an alarm system may have been beneficial. But the same could be said of many other highly unlikely scenarios. If your goal is to protect your family from tragedy, your best bet is probably buying safer cars and making sure your smoke/carbon monoxide alarms are fully functional.


Yes. And having phones to the ready to call Emergency Services?

Tying it all back to BH, Alarm companies charge quite a bit of money for doing very little. I wouldn't mind a one-time fee, but the $40+ monthly fee for simply forwarding the alarm to the police is ridiculous and gratuitous in my opinion. That's almost $15k for the service over the course of a 30-year mortgage.


I have never seen the police here respond to one. Nor in Canada, in truth. They are too busy to check what are 99% false alarms.

In South Africa you have ex military, ex police armed guard companies. You pay a lot, but they do respond and they do shoot-to-kill. SA is a dangerous place.

Valuethinker
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Valuethinker » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:35 am

Rupert wrote:
queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


+1. I couldn't care less if my neighbors hear or ignore my alarm. I use it to protect my family while we're home and to monitor my house for fire. My fire and smoke detectors are hard-wired into my alarm system, and I've had the alarm go off after a lightening strike at my house. The monitoring service called the fire department before calling me, and the fire department was at my house before I left my office. My house could have burned to the ground without that alarm system. It was in the middle of the day, and none of my neighbors were home.

No offense, Valuethinker, but urban London is not urban USA. Here, unfortunately, you must assume that the person smashing through your door or crawling through your window in the middle of the night has a gun and will shoot you for no reason. Burglary is the number one crime that people are sent to prison for in my state (and every other state that I'm aware of). So burglary is definitely not obsolete here.


Rupert

None taken. And I hope I didn't imply that burglary is a lost art here, either. The problem is there is just less to steal, and criminals go "where the money is" (so muggings for smartphones are a rising crime).

You have a good fire department. Mind, London Fire Brigade is good if there's a tangible reason to come (I've never heard of them being summoned by an automatic alarm) e.g. a visible fire/ smoke, gas leak etc.

Police? They have bigger fish to fry. If the burglar is in the home the 999 (so many people have seen 911 on TV, that I think that works now! Talk about globalization ;-)) call might bring them faster.

But they don't respond to ordinary house alarms (in fact, they do not accept direct live linkage). Really expensive areas, you have private security, they check your house, then call the police.

House and car alarms ringing are an almighty pest around here though. Usually because some builder has turned it on incorrectly when doing renovations, or in a heavy wind. The pitch and volume are designed to be not ignorable.

The main point of a house alarm is dissuasive-- burglars will try another property in preference.

Interested what state you live in? And what are these burglars stealing? The thing I keep coming up with is prescription pharmaceuticals. And car keys (what was happening was they were putting fibre optics through mail slots, then using a remote cable to snag car keys-- clever).

Valuethinker
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Valuethinker » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:44 am

queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


OK. I live in a dense urban area. The police are not summoned by alarms. Maybe one can pay for an alarm service but AFAIK unless *they* send someone to check, the police will not come. If *you* call the police directly, then they will come.

On the topic of a crime ridden area, do you think Cheshire, CT is a particularly dangerous area? I bet if you were to ask William Petit if he wished he would have had an alarm and would have been in the habit of setting it before he went to bed at night he would give you a very different answer than he might have given pre-2007.


(had to google that one, meant nothing to me)

Crime rates in the USA have fallen a lot since 2007. A lot. That said, how common are these home invasion murders? Vs. other types of crimes?

In other words, is this just a salience effect? We all focus on small horrific crimes, not the average risks. Speaking as a man whose close relation was killed just crossing the road, I am uncomfortably aware of that effect (my mother has also been in 2 bad car crashes-- and she hasn't driven in more than 50 years; ohh and 2 of her closest friends were rear ended and killed).

These things are horrible. But would an alarm system have helped Dr Petit? Because normally if you are home, it's shut off? Or at least if you are *downstairs* (as the doctor was) then you won't have put it on? You'd only do that if you were upstairs in bed? (a perimeter alarm system presumably still requires motion sensors).

And if Dr. Petit had had a gun (or his wife) would they have had an opportunity to use it? Given that he woke up tied up? Would his wife have wakened, realized in the dark it was not him (I often sneak in and out of bed at odd hours, trying not to waken my spouse, for example), drawn and fired?

I can see the virtue of a by-the-bed "panic button". Presumably that requires membership in a security company?

Lynette
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Lynette » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:56 am

One of my favorite stories was told to us by a prof when I attended a class at a community college. The family's dog went missing and friends and relatives were frantically searching for the dog and reported it to the police. At 3:00 a.m there was a knock at the door and the family dog was seen proudly sitting in the back of the police van.

I think that responsiveness of the police is really dependent on the city. In my fairly affluent neighborhood it is within minutes. Detroit is not far from me and they are really trying to improve the response time of the police.
Last edited by Lynette on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

queso
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby queso » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:07 am

Valuethinker wrote:
queso wrote:I don't think we're using the term alarm in the same manner. Most of us that have alarms have the type that make very little noise or our properties are large enough that nobody outside the home passing by could hear them anyway. What they do is give my family time to prepare for an incident/attack and automatically let the monitoring company know there is an issue. If I don't answer the call from the monitoring company or if I do answer and give the incorrect password the police show up at my door around 10 minutes later. Very different than a car alarm that beeps in the parking garage. We all ignore those and stopped buying them decades ago because the population is desensitized to them.


OK. I live in a dense urban area. The police are not summoned by alarms. Maybe one can pay for an alarm service but AFAIK unless *they* send someone to check, the police will not come. If *you* call the police directly, then they will come.

On the topic of a crime ridden area, do you think Cheshire, CT is a particularly dangerous area? I bet if you were to ask William Petit if he wished he would have had an alarm and would have been in the habit of setting it before he went to bed at night he would give you a very different answer than he might have given pre-2007.


(had to google that one, meant nothing to me)

Crime rates in the USA have fallen a lot since 2007. A lot. That said, how common are these home invasion murders? Vs. other types of crimes?

In other words, is this just a salience effect? We all focus on small horrific crimes, not the average risks. Speaking as a man whose close relation was killed just crossing the road, I am uncomfortably aware of that effect (my mother has also been in 2 bad car crashes-- and she hasn't driven in more than 50 years; ohh and 2 of her closest friends were rear ended and killed).

These things are horrible. But would an alarm system have helped Dr Petit? Because normally if you are home, it's shut off? Or at least if you are *downstairs* (as the doctor was) then you won't have put it on? You'd only do that if you were upstairs in bed? (a perimeter alarm system presumably still requires motion sensors).

And if Dr. Petit had had a gun (or his wife) would they have had an opportunity to use it? Given that he woke up tied up? Would his wife have wakened, realized in the dark it was not him (I often sneak in and out of bed at odd hours, trying not to waken my spouse, for example), drawn and fired?

I totally agree that the likelihood of a Petit-like scenario is very low. However, the sheer horror of it, regardless of actual probability, is enough that I'm willing to modify my behavior and practices to ensure that I am at least moderately prepared if something like this were to happen. I acknowledge a bit of paranoia on my part as well. That stems from being a burglary victim in the past so I am a little more paranoid than most. I don't want to hijack the thread, but specifically there are a number of things that happened in the Petit home that night that led them to be susceptible and I agree that an alarm alone wouldn't have been enough. As you point out, if he was sleeping out in the home and not in a bedroom without motion sensors he would have had to shut it off (if it had motion sensors in the first place). A lot of people put them in a "stay" mode if they are home which deactivates motion sensors and only arms contact points and glass break sensors. I don't recall how they gained entry so that may or may not have given them at least some warning. From what I remember, Komisarjevsky actually prided himself on being able to get past alarms simply by watching through windows and seeing the code the homeowners pressed when they get home so he could come back later and burglarize the place. That indicates a level of technical proficiency so I think it is likely he would have been smart enough to check a door for a contact point or glass break sensor before opening it so stay mode might have been ineffective in this case. Regardless of what did or didn't happen with the alarm, a good security system is only one layer of a comprehensive security plan and really needs to be a part of the "culture" of the home to be effective.

In my case, unless he somehow disabled the keypad beeping upon entry and the beeps as each key is pressed (not possible without access to the panel as far as I know and that's inside the house) my large 4 legged security systems have been around that alarm for years and know that beeping (even brief as you walk to the panel to enter the code) means someone came in the door and they start barking and come running (usually looking for a pat on the head or a treat, but they will respond loudly and aggressively if they find a stranger and not a family member). Dogs have several barks and the "there is a stranger" bark is very very unique from normal barking. It's very loud, prolonged and has an urgency that is distinctive. We'd know right away. At that point they would be on camera footage stored in the cloud, be staring at a wall of fur and teeth and if they didn't beat a hasty retreat at that point they would soon have several armed responders approaching, 2 of which are military/government trained in firearms use and house clearing. You make a good point about the overall efficacy of any of these items though. Alarms are ineffective unless they are used properly and regularly, dogs are ineffective if they greet everyone with a wag and a smile and guns are ineffective unless they are ready to be deployed at a moment's notice by a capable operator trained in their use who will not hesitate to pull the trigger if the circumstances warrant it.
Last edited by queso on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Juliajones54
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby Juliajones54 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:09 am

We bought a 2300 square foot home last year, but the footage includes a 3 car garage, so the actual house feels cramped. We desperately needed storage and moved from a one car garage with no storage where we had lived for 23 years; the garage space now is wonderful. We have 3 bedrooms for the 2 of us, but grandkids are here often (reason for the move), and they each have their own room which are also used for guests. Each bedroom has walk in closets which I love. The kitchen has no pantry, we turned a coat closet into a pantry which for me is a serious need. This house has too many bathrooms - 3.5 is ridiculous, 2 would have been plenty. I filled the jetted tub yesterday and ran the jets just to clean them and keep them in working order. The tub has been used 4 times in the last year. Definitely a waste of space, but in our area, all the houses have them, so we couldn't avoid it. We have a large kitchen which was important to me, but it's not eat in, so a separate dining area was necessary. Whole house alarm which we don't use, coded door locks which we don't use, we use keys instead. The last owners went crazy on landscaping, we will be pulling at least half of it out - much of it appears to have been put in as they were selling the house, and by this spring, it has died. Buying a house is so personal that what is gratuitous to one is necessary to another. I enjoy reading all the opinions!

alfaspider
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby alfaspider » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:37 am

Valuethinker wrote:
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/ar ... 08867.html

the poster here, "Old Jarhead", is a former US Marine. The point he is making is having a gun is not enough, and waving it in someone's face makes them more not less dangerous.

You have to be prepared to shoot-- a process which military and law enforcement people undertake many hours of training to be able to do regardless of their own mental state or circumstances, it's not as easy as it looks in the movies to shoot another human being. You have to then be prepared for the legal process which will result-- I realize some US states are OK about shooting intruders but I suspect some are not? And even if the jury exonnerates you, it's a long road to that trial.



More than being prepared to shoot, you have to parse the situation rapidly and when you are likely not at peak mental acuity. Many years ago, a neighbor of ours shot someone who had broken into his back yard. But it was an unarmed drunken homeless person who was just wandering and likely wasn't a threat to anyone. Being Texas, he wasn't prosecuted, but I must imagine his actions will weigh heavily on him for the rest of his life. There are also many horror stories of people shooting relatives they thought were intruders. When police or the military arrive to a scene, they haven't just been awakened from sleep and are mentally prepared for a potential dangerous encounter.

queso
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Re: gratuitous homeownership items

Postby queso » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:21 am

alfaspider wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/ar ... 08867.html

the poster here, "Old Jarhead", is a former US Marine. The point he is making is having a gun is not enough, and waving it in someone's face makes them more not less dangerous.

You have to be prepared to shoot-- a process which military and law enforcement people undertake many hours of training to be able to do regardless of their own mental state or circumstances, it's not as easy as it looks in the movies to shoot another human being. You have to then be prepared for the legal process which will result-- I realize some US states are OK about shooting intruders but I suspect some are not? And even if the jury exonnerates you, it's a long road to that trial.



More than being prepared to shoot, you have to parse the situation rapidly and when you are likely not at peak mental acuity. Many years ago, a neighbor of ours shot someone who had broken into his back yard. But it was an unarmed drunken homeless person who was just wandering and likely wasn't a threat to anyone. Being Texas, he wasn't prosecuted, but I must imagine his actions will weigh heavily on him for the rest of his life. There are also many horror stories of people shooting relatives they thought were intruders. When police or the military arrive to a scene, they haven't just been awakened from sleep and are mentally prepared for a potential dangerous encounter.


+1. This is obviously massively important since you can't unshoot somebody and will have to live with the consequences for the rest of your life.


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