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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:20 pm
by cfs
Buy-2-Hold

In reference to CI's last comment, [in my IPS] I use the term "buy-to-hold" vice the old term of buy and hold.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:40 pm
by Toons
ArthurO wrote:
technovelist wrote:
avalpert wrote:
DonCamillo wrote:Since MOST of the shares of stock in the world are not bought or sold on any given day, that means that MOST share owners also feel that their stocks are worth more to them than the market is currently offering.
It also means that MOST non share owners don't feel the stock is worth what those share owners think it is worth - and there are a lot more of them. Maybe you should be more inclined to agree with them - unless you think you are smarter than the market and thus know the value better than it does. If you don't think you are smarter than it in the smart term and thus able to time your purchases and sales of equities/funds/markets why do you think you are smarter than it in the long term?
That proves that the market price is a minimum value, not the real value.
Not at all, all that proves is that in those cases there is a market buyer who values it more than the last buyer - heck that is what it means every time the next sale is higher. The real value at any given moment is what you can sell it for - plain and simple.
Exactly.
+1, finally a very sensible thought about value, and item or stock is worth at any given moment the amount that someone is willing to pay for it.....
Exactly right ,the market thought my shares of Disney were worth 15.83 in March 2009,today the market thinks they are worth 93.47 ,who knows? :happy

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:21 pm
by cfs
Toons wrote: . . . . my shares of Disney were worth 15.83 in March 2009,today the market thinks they are worth 93.47 . . .
Make that $93.11 today, but still, smoking !!!

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:06 am
by cfs
Amazing.

This market continues to make the bears look really bad--the bears will have their day, but not today.

Oh, the Dow and Nikkei finishing the year neck-to-neck on the race to 18,000 with the Nikkei telling the Dow "been there, done that . . ."

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:30 am
by ofcmetz
zaboomafoozarg wrote:
nisiprius wrote:"There may come a day... but this is not that day."
This day, we relabance!
Great on the reference from the movie "300". This is Bogleheads!

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:07 am
by Leeraar
CBS News says there is a "sell off" on Wall Street.

My IPS says I must post a message in this thread when that occurs.

L.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:10 am
by Browser
"U.S. stocks in selloff" :!:

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:11 am
by Toons
Browser wrote:"U.S. stocks in selloff" :!:
Great! :happy

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:20 am
by Browser
The good news is that your Energy fund and Gold are both up today (assuming you stayed the course and haven't bailed yet),

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:20 am
by cfs
Sale, what sale?

Ten or twenty percent discount?

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:31 am
by backpacker
Leeraar wrote:CBS News says there is a "sell off" on Wall Street.

My IPS says I must post a message in this thread when that occurs.

L.
Bloomberg sees your selloff on Wall Street and raises to a Global Selloff.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 am
by ivyhedge
Our shiba inu saw Bloomberg this morning and said, "much sell". I responded, "many buy".

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:02 am
by Browser
The S&P 500 fell 0.9 percent to 2,042.68 at 10:12 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 149.38 points, or 0.8 percent, to 17,703.10.
Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:17 am
by Toons
Oh it seems like just yesterday(decade lows make for opportunity),what a ride it has been,stay the course and think long term,,,,,like Decades :happy
Dow 6,547.05
S&P 676.53
Nasdaq 1,268.64

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/09/markets ... s_newyork/

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:41 am
by oldzey
Browser wrote:
The S&P 500 fell 0.9 percent to 2,042.68 at 10:12 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 149.38 points, or 0.8 percent, to 17,703.10.
Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.
Hehe +1 8-)

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:40 pm
by chaz
oldzey wrote:
Browser wrote:
The S&P 500 fell 0.9 percent to 2,042.68 at 10:12 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 149.38 points, or 0.8 percent, to 17,703.10.
Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.
Hehe +1 8-)
+2, :D

U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:42 pm
by shawcroft
At the risk of having bricks thrown at me for engaging in some "market timing", might this be a good day to consider rebalancing...if your asset allocation is in need of it?
Shawcroft

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:02 pm
by cfs
Any day is a good day.

Well, Shipmate Shawcroft, no bricks from my side, any day is a good day for re-balancing -IF- your portfolio is in need of it. You have a Merry Christmas.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:33 pm
by FillorKill
Browser wrote:Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.
Not so fast. NQZ already in the green.

But just to be safe:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplement ... ogram-snap

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:37 pm
by Toons
cfs wrote:Any day is a good day.

Well, Shipmate Shawcroft, no bricks from my side, any day is a good day for re-balancing -IF- your portfolio is in need of it. You have a Merry Christmas.
+1 On any day is a good day :happy

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:44 pm
by flyingaway
Just made two buys yesterday and will do more buys if they fall again.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:44 pm
by Bungo
S&P 500 down 0.11% as I write this. That's a rounding error, not a selloff.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:14 pm
by cfs
Don't anyone panic.

Don't anyone panic, the Santa Claus Rally is just around the corner !!!

Santa Claus Rally De-Fined ====> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/san ... effect.asp

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:43 pm
by kenyan
cfs wrote:Don't anyone panic.

Don't anyone panic, the Santa Claus Rally is just around the corner !!!

Santa Claus Rally De-Fined ====> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/san ... effect.asp

The pessimists are on vacation? Seriously?!?

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:10 pm
by 2retire
Bungo wrote:S&P 500 down 0.11% as I write this. That's a rounding error, not a selloff.
I'm not sure what you use as your source for the markets, but it opened at -0.3 and hasn't gotten higher than that all day.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:12 pm
by TheRightKost87
2retire wrote:
Bungo wrote:S&P 500 down 0.11% as I write this. That's a rounding error, not a selloff.
I'm not sure what you use as your source for the markets, but it opened at -0.3 and hasn't gotten higher than that all day.
Bungo wrote that after the close yesterday (12/9) not today

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:15 pm
by Toons
Lest we forget:
March 2009 :happy
Dow 6,547.05
S&P 676.53
Nasdaq 1,268.64

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:56 pm
by Bungo
Toons wrote:Lest we forget:
March 2009 :happy
Dow 6,547.05
S&P 676.53
Nasdaq 1,268.64
Yep. :D After experiencing the markets during 2008-2009, it's hard to think of daily moves smaller than +/-5% as anything but noise.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:09 pm
by Browser
While everyone is looking for a "freefall" they'll get killed by a "slowfall" instead, a stealth bear market where you lose your stash a bit at a time without becoming alarmed -- like "boiled frogs". Mr. Market is always figuring a way to head-fake investors and lift their wallets.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:07 pm
by Leeraar
Browser wrote:While everyone is looking for a "freefall" they'll get killed by a "slowfall" instead, a stealth bear market where you lose your stash a bit at a time without becoming alarmed -- like "boiled frogs". Mr. Market is always figuring a way to head-fake investors and lift their wallets.
And now, we have a stealth bull market. Enjoy!

L.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:11 pm
by DonCamillo
I'm kind of hoping that instead of a Santa Rally, this year will have a (temporary) Grinch Plunge instead, to reduce my MRD for next year and give me a chance to do a little more Roth conversion. :greedy

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:59 am
by ofcmetz
DonCamillo wrote:I'm kind of hoping that instead of a Santa Rally, this year will have a (temporary) Grinch Plunge instead, to reduce my MRD for next year and give me a chance to do a little more Roth conversion. :greedy

I'm fine with things staying flat for awhile. My returns over the last few years have already far surpassed my expectations. I wouldn't be too put off if we got that Grinch plunge, but I do feel for those living off their portfolio right now.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:43 pm
by cfs
Well, maybe the Grinch is listening to our Shipmate Don Camillo, so far so good.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:54 pm
by nisiprius
So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:05 pm
by longinvest
nisiprius wrote:So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.
Nisiprius,

That wouldn't help keeping people nervous and addicted so that they come back, next week, to learn if markets "recover" from this bad week. Just imagine how boring a talk show about the up-to-the-minute 20-year performance of a three-fund portfolio would be!

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:18 pm
by flyingaway
Someone was saying that we need a correction this year to have a healthy bull market in 2015. What is the difference between a correction this year and one next year? That is just to shift the gains from this year to the next year.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:24 pm
by nisiprius
flyingaway wrote:Someone was saying that we need a correction this year to have a healthy bull market in 2015. What is the difference between a correction this year and one next year? That is just to shift the gains from this year to the next year.
Well, in an ideal world I'd prefer to see the stock market gain 10% each and every year--rather than 16.3% this year and 4% next year... or 21% this year and 0% next year... or 142% this year in -50% the next... even if they all amount to a CAGR of 10%/year for two years.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:25 pm
by Browser
If everyone touches their computer screen while reading this thread and has a happy thought, it will ward off bears and we will all get richer. :dollar

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:35 pm
by Ged
Latest quote from the talking heads "This event is increasing dispersion in the market which will be a benefit to people because it's now a stock pickers market". :oops:

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:39 pm
by Clearly_Irrational
Ged wrote:Latest quote from the talking heads "This event is increasing dispersion in the market which will be a benefit to people because it's now a stock pickers market". :oops:
Like talking heads or not, dispersion does indeed assist active investors. Of course the evidence suggests that active traders underperform so I suppose it's kind of like charity for the less fortunate.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:07 pm
by Bonnan
A correction now and rebound in early 2015 would be ideal. With a lower Trad IRA balance on Dec 31st it will reduce my RMD for next year; longer tax deferral.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:48 pm
by oragne lovre
A "freefall" around the period when funds pay dividend is not a bad thing. For those who re-invest their dividend, their money may get them a bit more equity.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:44 am
by Toons
oragne lovre wrote:A "freefall" around the period when funds pay dividend is not a bad thing. For those who re-invest their dividend, their money may get them a bit more equity.
+1,Indeed as funds will be paying out year end capital gains this month this may be the case(more shares) :happy

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:24 pm
by baw703916
nisiprius wrote:So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.
Did you know that the Dow is about 10 times as volatile as the S&P, based on daily price moves? ;)

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:27 pm
by Leeraar
baw703916 wrote:
nisiprius wrote:So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.
Did you know that the Dow is about 10 times as volatile as the S&P, based on daily price moves? ;)
Yes, but I believe percentagewise it is about the same. The level of the Dow is about 10x the S&P500.

L.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 pm
by nisiprius
baw703916 wrote:Did you know that the Dow is about 10 times as volatile as the S&P, based on daily price moves? ;)
:D

If I were in S&P's marketing department, I would seriously recommend that the S&P 500 Index be rescaled, multiplying it by a factor of ten, making it bigger than the Dow. Surely if they did that, it would only be a matter of time before newscasters started announcing it first, and soon it, rather than the Dow, would be the preeminent index. I mean, who would want 2,000 if they can get 17,000?

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:03 am
by bottomfisher
nisiprius wrote:If I were in S&P's marketing department, I would seriously recommend that the S&P 500 Index be rescaled, multiplying it by a factor of ten, making it bigger than the Dow. Surely if they did that, it would only be a matter of time before newscasters started announcing it first, and soon it, rather than the Dow, would be the preeminent index. I mean, who would want 2,000 if they can get 17,000?
Why stop there? Let's make it 3D. With 3rd dimension being volume or something of the sort. Data has so much potential these days.

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:09 pm
by Noobvestor
ivyhedge wrote:Our shiba inu saw Bloomberg this morning and said, "much sell". I responded, "many buy".
Image

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:00 am
by Browser
I read that last week's drop was the largest weekly drop since this thread began in 2011. It took awhile but maybe the free fall is back in play. :shock: :shock: All these optimistic dip-buyer posters might be just the ticket. :D

Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:05 am
by cfs
Browser wrote:I read that last week's drop was the largest weekly drop since this thread began in 2011. It took awhile but maybe the free fall is back in play. :shock: :shock: All these optimistic dip-buyer posters might be just the ticket. :D
Well, actually, I have not read that many "Why Bonds at All?" conversations lately (plus, not that many "Why not 100% Equities").