U.S. stocks in freefall

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livesoft
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:27 pm

I don't see why you don't play a game of Chicken. Who will blink first?

I am making our Roth IRAs have less risky equities in them. I am selling DGS (small-cap emerging markets, up 60% since grap0013's market call) in the Roths and buying DGS in tax-deferred. I am selling Total US stock market in the traditional and buying Total US Stock Market in the Roth.

I have to decide whether to move small-cap foreign out of Roths into Tax-deferred. And whether to move US small-cap value out of tax-deferred into Roths.

Does anybody have any help for me please?
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by MotoTrojan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:39 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:27 pm
I don't see why you don't play a game of Chicken. Who will blink first?

I am making our Roth IRAs have less risky equities in them. I am selling DGS (small-cap emerging markets, up 60% since grap0013's market call) in the Roths and buying DGS in tax-deferred. I am selling Total US stock market in the traditional and buying Total US Stock Market in the Roth.

I have to decide whether to move small-cap foreign out of Roths into Tax-deferred. And whether to move US small-cap value out of tax-deferred into Roths.

Does anybody have any help for me please?
Liquidate all of your tax-advantaged and buy Bitcoin. You’ll make up the 10% IRS penalty on day 1!!!

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:46 pm

Tulip-coin was down 20% at one point today.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by flyingaway » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:52 pm

sambb wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:06 pm
stocks are falling upwards! Anyone rebalancing or taking moiney off the table? I havent hit my band, but i am considering rebalancing anyway. Any downside to this?
I am moving to bonds continuously.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by grabiner » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:27 pm
I don't see why you don't play a game of Chicken. Who will blink first?

I am making our Roth IRAs have less risky equities in them. I am selling DGS (small-cap emerging markets, up 60% since grap0013's market call) in the Roths and buying DGS in tax-deferred. I am selling Total US stock market in the traditional and buying Total US Stock Market in the Roth.

I have to decide whether to move small-cap foreign out of Roths into Tax-deferred. And whether to move US small-cap value out of tax-deferred into Roths.

Does anybody have any help for me please?
If everything is tax-deferred, and you adjust for the different tax values of pre-tax and after-tax accounts, there is no first-order difference; if you retire in a 25% tax bracket, $4000 in a traditional IRA and $3000 in a Roth IRA have the same value if invested the same way, so there is no reason to invest one or the other in risky investments. Therefore, the investment options are more important if there is a difference; hold bonds in your TSP because it has a better bond fund than anything available at retail, or stocks in your 401(k) if the lowest-cost option is an S&P 500 index.

The second-order effects favor putting riskier investments in a Roth IRA. If the stock market booms and you have stocks in your traditional IRA, you might wind up paying 28% rather than 25% tax on part of your traditional withdrawals, or paying tax prematurely because of RMDs which are larger than you need. If the stock market crashes, the IRS might give back only 15% rather than 25% of the losses in your traditional IRA.
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MotoTrojan
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:17 am

grabiner wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 pm
livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:27 pm
I don't see why you don't play a game of Chicken. Who will blink first?

I am making our Roth IRAs have less risky equities in them. I am selling DGS (small-cap emerging markets, up 60% since grap0013's market call) in the Roths and buying DGS in tax-deferred. I am selling Total US stock market in the traditional and buying Total US Stock Market in the Roth.

I have to decide whether to move small-cap foreign out of Roths into Tax-deferred. And whether to move US small-cap value out of tax-deferred into Roths.

Does anybody have any help for me please?
If everything is tax-deferred, and you adjust for the different tax values of pre-tax and after-tax accounts, there is no first-order difference; if you retire in a 25% tax bracket, $4000 in a traditional IRA and $3000 in a Roth IRA have the same value if invested the same way, so there is no reason to invest one or the other in risky investments. Therefore, the investment options are more important if there is a difference; hold bonds in your TSP because it has a better bond fund than anything available at retail, or stocks in your 401(k) if the lowest-cost option is an S&P 500 index.

The second-order effects favor putting riskier investments in a Roth IRA. If the stock market booms and you have stocks in your traditional IRA, you might wind up paying 28% rather than 25% tax on part of your traditional withdrawals, or paying tax prematurely because of RMDs which are larger than you need. If the stock market crashes, the IRS might give back only 15% rather than 25% of the losses in your traditional IRA.
Maybe I’m wrong but I think livesoft was goofing around. All excellent points though.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by GoldenFinch » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:39 am

MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:17 am
grabiner wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 pm
livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:27 pm
I don't see why you don't play a game of Chicken. Who will blink first?

I am making our Roth IRAs have less risky equities in them. I am selling DGS (small-cap emerging markets, up 60% since grap0013's market call) in the Roths and buying DGS in tax-deferred. I am selling Total US stock market in the traditional and buying Total US Stock Market in the Roth.

I have to decide whether to move small-cap foreign out of Roths into Tax-deferred. And whether to move US small-cap value out of tax-deferred into Roths.

Does anybody have any help for me please?
If everything is tax-deferred, and you adjust for the different tax values of pre-tax and after-tax accounts, there is no first-order difference; if you retire in a 25% tax bracket, $4000 in a traditional IRA and $3000 in a Roth IRA have the same value if invested the same way, so there is no reason to invest one or the other in risky investments. Therefore, the investment options are more important if there is a difference; hold bonds in your TSP because it has a better bond fund than anything available at retail, or stocks in your 401(k) if the lowest-cost option is an S&P 500 index.

The second-order effects favor putting riskier investments in a Roth IRA. If the stock market booms and you have stocks in your traditional IRA, you might wind up paying 28% rather than 25% tax on part of your traditional withdrawals, or paying tax prematurely because of RMDs which are larger than you need. If the stock market crashes, the IRS might give back only 15% rather than 25% of the losses in your traditional IRA.
Maybe I’m wrong but I think livesoft was goofing around. All excellent points though.
I think this was one of those welcome but sometimes confusing “let’s teach an investing lesson while making some unfortunate Boglehead’s head spin” posts. (Mine.)

After reading it maybe someone might say, “Hey, I thought we were supposed to do nothing!” (That would be me.)

But someone else might think, “Maybe I SHOULD move my emerging markets to a different account, I mean, up 60%.” (Won’t admit it.)

Hopefully livesoft will clarify or others will do it for him. I can’t because I had to read it three times and although I was mostly convinced he was goofing around, sometimes it’s still a mystery and you just can’t be too sure.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:29 am

I was not goofing around. I am serious.

Strictly speaking, I want assets that go up the mostest in my Roth IRAs. And I do not want assets that drop in value to be in my Roth IRA. Both of those kinds of assets are "riskier investments." There is risk of loss and risk of gains. And both risks are combined in "riskier assets." Most folks don't think about risk of gains. So when "riskier assets" are going up, I want them in my Roth IRAs, but when "riskier assets" are going down, I don't want them in my Roth IRA.

So if I am going to own "riskier assets" and if I can market time it such that my Roth IRAs hold them when they are mostly going up and not when they are going down, what's wrong with that?

Another way of saying this: In the end I want my Roth IRAs to be much much bigger than my traditional IRAs. Who wouldn't want that?

And I think grabiner is saying something like this: If one sells $500,000 of DGS in their Roth IRA, they would have to buy 25% more in their traditional IRA or $625,000 to have the same tax-adjusted asset allocation because they expect to pay 25% tax on their traditional IRA withdrawals.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by GoldenFinch » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:19 am

^^Thank you! I understand now. :happy

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:15 am

GoldenFinch wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:19 am
^^Thank you! I understand now. :happy
Me too. That must be a sign that The End Is Near. The greatest fool understood Livesoft and Grabiner, before his coffee, shortly after 7 AM, so the market must fall, far and long. You heard it here.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:53 am

sambb wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:06 pm
stocks are falling upwards! Anyone rebalancing or taking moiney off the table? I havent hit my band, but i am considering rebalancing anyway. Any downside to this?
Forget bitcoin. I want in on the anti-gravity device that makes things fall upwards.

Since the start of this thread on August 8, 2011, total return of Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) is up 150%, and $10,000 has grown to be $25,033.

I think I'll switch over to the thread "is anyone tried of the stock market going up?"

I do enjoy these two threads with my morning coffee, they are very entertaining
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:33 am

livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:46 pm
Tulip-coin was down 20% at one point today.
Doesn't that constitute a RBD?

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:38 am

EnjoyIt wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:33 am
livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:46 pm
Tulip-coin was down 20% at one point today.
Doesn't that constitute a RBD?
I really don't know. It might not be if there are many days where it dropped more than 20%. That is, a 20% drop might be normal.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:58 am

livesoft wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:38 am
EnjoyIt wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:33 am
livesoft wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:46 pm
Tulip-coin was down 20% at one point today.
Doesn't that constitute a RBD?
I really don't know. It might not be if there are many days where it dropped more than 20%. That is, a 20% drop might be normal.
I don’t think that was a drop at the close; if memory serves, it was up for the day. A nice smooth ride :D

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bligh
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by bligh » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:33 am

There is that volatility that has been hiding all these months.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:34 am

Yes, finally some action. Bond ETFs are up more than 0.5%. That doesn't happen very often, does it?
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:37 pm

livesoft wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:34 am
Yes, finally some action. Bond ETFs are up more than 0.5%. That doesn't happen very often, does it?
Maybe not, but my Intermediate Treasury ETF is still down from its value on Tuesday. Not clear why I would want to sell.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:44 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:15 am
GoldenFinch wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:19 am
^^Thank you! I understand now. :happy
Me too. That must be a sign that The End Is Near. The greatest fool understood Livesoft and Grabiner, before his coffee, shortly after 7 AM, so the market must fall, far and long. You heard it here.
Oh boy, I've used up half of my "stopped clock" allotment for the day. Called it!

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:46 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:44 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:15 am
GoldenFinch wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:19 am
^^Thank you! I understand now. :happy
Me too. That must be a sign that The End Is Near. The greatest fool understood Livesoft and Grabiner, before his coffee, shortly after 7 AM, so the market must fall, far and long. You heard it here.
Oh boy, I've used up half of my "stopped clock" allotment for the day. Called it!
Given the abrupt intra-day timing, I don't think this particular market drop had anything to do with you ;)
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:50 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 am
Still an accumulator, but approaching the end. Otoh, DS is beginning his accumulation, and I’d like him to get a sense for what a sharp drop feels like. He’s got enough now ($xxk) that he will feel it. He knows, by reading, that volatility goes both ways, but that’s something you have to experience first hand to truly feel.
My daughter is celebrating her company stock is dropping 15%, she gets lower price because it’s the start of her ESPP. Lol!

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greg24
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by greg24 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:25 pm

The market is tanking now. Could get interesting.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:08 pm

I just completed a transfer to Scottrade for a bonus. I'm sure the downturn is my fault, although it would need nearly a 3% decline today to really cause a problem.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:24 pm

greg24 wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:25 pm
The market is tanking now. Could get interesting.
Total US and Total Int. are now at -0.33% and -0.21% respectively; this is pretty mellow. My small-cap value (S&P600) is touching a -1% day (was way worse) but it also had some nice recent gains.

Anyways though... I was getting sick of my car payment so I just sold a bunch of Lifestrategy Conservative Growth which looks like it'll close up today thanks to Total Bond contribution. Lifestrategy was part of my EF, going to reduce it now without payment and keep all at Ally)! Still need $2000 worth of equities to fully payoff the car... but I think I'll wait until Monday based on all the doom & gloom above :mrgreen: .

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:34 pm

FWIW, IJS (small-cap value) traded around $150.00 earlier today which was 3.1% below yesterday's close and definitely in RBD territory.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:40 pm

livesoft wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:34 pm
FWIW, IJS (small-cap value) traded around $150.00 earlier today which was 3.1% below yesterday's close and definitely in RBD territory.
Pretty sharp trough though. You'd have needed to nimble or put in a low limit order to get in. Mostly recovered now. Small-value is one area where I don't need buy any at this time.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:23 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:40 pm
Pretty sharp trough though. You'd have needed to nimble or put in a low limit order to get in.
That is true, but that's why some folks have price drop alerts set up with their brokers. Let the computers be nimble, so you don't have to be.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:24 pm

Acronym decoder, from the wiki:
RBD - Really Bad Day. A Bogleheads' idiomatic term coined by forum member livesoft. An early mention is in this thread: Today was a Really Bad Day.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by FIREchief » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am

I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by flyingaway » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I plan to sell 1% equities today if it is above 2662 at 3:50PM.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by FootballFan5548 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:43 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I plan to sell 1% equities today if it is above 2662 at 3:50PM.

And buy what?

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by alpine_boglehead » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:55 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
Happy +300% day, too. :)

That's 3,195 days, giving us a 0.04% CDGR - that's the expense ratio of VTSAX - per diem :shock:.

Would have anyone believed you if you'd foretold on March 6, 2009, that this would happen within 8.5 years?

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by flyingaway » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:09 pm

FootballFan5548 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:43 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I plan to sell 1% equities today if it is above 2662 at 3:50PM.

And buy what?
Sorry. I meant to "re-balance" into bonds.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by MotoTrojan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:20 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:09 pm
FootballFan5548 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:43 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I plan to sell 1% equities today if it is above 2662 at 3:50PM.

And buy what?
Sorry. I meant to "re-balance" into bonds.
Seems overly precise form of rebalancing to me.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by WhiteMaxima » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:23 pm

Take your emotion away from investment.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by flyingaway » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:04 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:20 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:09 pm
FootballFan5548 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:43 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I plan to sell 1% equities today if it is above 2662 at 3:50PM.

And buy what?
Sorry. I meant to "re-balance" into bonds.
Seems overly precise form of rebalancing to me.
I just need a motivation to reach my 70/30 allocation.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Houe » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:55 am

flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:09 pm
FootballFan5548 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:43 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:44 am
I just wanted to wish all the buy & hold investors HAPPY QUADRUPLE DAY!

The S&P 500 index hit a great recession low of 666 in 2009. Earlier today, it exceeded 2665. Simple math (and I'm not even including dividends). 8-)
I plan to sell 1% equities today if it is above 2662 at 3:50PM.

And buy what?
Sorry. I meant to "re-balance" into bonds.
Depending on the size of your portfolio you can always use new contributions to slowly transition to the desired asset allocation.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:45 pm

Since the start of this thread on August 8, 2011, total return of Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) is up 154%, and $10,000 has turned into $25,414.

I love this freefall.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by oldzey » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:52 pm

This time it's different. :twisted:
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Tycoon » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:10 pm

Don't forget about the bond market crash. It'll be here any day now.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:38 pm

I removed several off-topic posts which started to derail the thread. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.
Please stay on-topic, which is about U.S. stocks.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Munir » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:17 pm

Rebalance what into what? Both equities and bonds are tanking, aren't they?

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Engineer250 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm

Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
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Coolstavi
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Coolstavi » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm

Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm
Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
I have VGSLX and it says it went from 121 to 107 today for about a 14% drop. Does that seem right? Thought it was a mistake at first but....

Engineer250
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Engineer250 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:17 pm

Coolstavi wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm
Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
I have VGSLX and it says it went from 121 to 107 today for about a 14% drop. Does that seem right? Thought it was a mistake at first but....
Search engine says VGSLX is up today. I was actually just looking at all my ETFs in my Roth and thinking how I wanted to sell them and start buying the funds instead. For no real reason, just to make my life more orderly I guess.
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Coolstavi wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm
Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
I have VGSLX and it says it went from 121 to 107 today for about a 14% drop. Does that seem right? Thought it was a mistake at first but....
See viewtopic.php?f=10&t=235065&view=unread#unread

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triceratop
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by triceratop » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:17 pm
Coolstavi wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm
Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
I have VGSLX and it says it went from 121 to 107 today for about a 14% drop. Does that seem right? Thought it was a mistake at first but....
Search engine says VGSLX is up today. I was actually just looking at all my ETFs in my Roth and thinking how I wanted to sell them and start buying the funds instead. For no real reason, just to make my life more orderly I guess.
That is the Dec 18 closing price. Today the price declined 11.79% according to vanguard.com
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tj
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by tj » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:27 pm

triceratop wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:19 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:17 pm
Coolstavi wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm
Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
I have VGSLX and it says it went from 121 to 107 today for about a 14% drop. Does that seem right? Thought it was a mistake at first but....
Search engine says VGSLX is up today. I was actually just looking at all my ETFs in my Roth and thinking how I wanted to sell them and start buying the funds instead. For no real reason, just to make my life more orderly I guess.
That is the Dec 18 closing price. Today the price declined 11.79% according to vanguard.com
12%? I dont believe it.

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Portfolio7
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Portfolio7 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:54 pm

tj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:27 pm
triceratop wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:19 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:17 pm
Coolstavi wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm
Engineer250 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 pm
Got an exciting new phone notification. A wild downward pointing arrow to inform me VNQ dropped 2%. I was checking it a lot about 1.5 years ago when I was rebalancing my REIT so I guess Google thinks I care about it. No similar exciting numbers for S&P 500 though. Wonder if that is the biggest swing for REIT all year? It’s been such a mellow year. I’d wonder why it’s happening now, but 2% dips used to be normal so I don’t think I need a reason.
I have VGSLX and it says it went from 121 to 107 today for about a 14% drop. Does that seem right? Thought it was a mistake at first but....
Search engine says VGSLX is up today. I was actually just looking at all my ETFs in my Roth and thinking how I wanted to sell them and start buying the funds instead. For no real reason, just to make my life more orderly I guess.
That is the Dec 18 closing price. Today the price declined 11.79% according to vanguard.com
12%? I dont believe it.
As I've been learning (by watching my funds closely), dividend declarations seem to create a significant NAV reduction, even if reinvested. Looks like VGSLX just declared on the 19th to be paid on the 21st. I haven't had time to work the math on these situations, but it appears that the dividend reinvestment is reflected in my total investments, despite the big reported loss in the funds that declared. I would expect that to be the case, but the size of the loss numbers on the dividend declaration date confused me. The losses seemed greater than whatever dividends might be coming my way, even though I was pretty sure that was not the case. Anyone who wants to correct me or provide better insights, please feel more than welcome to do so.
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livesoft
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by livesoft » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:56 pm

It appears that an erroneous price was reported for a short time and later fixed.
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roflwaffle
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by roflwaffle » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:22 pm

Does anyone publish currency weighted (I think?) versions of major indices? For instance, if the S&P 500 is up 2% since January first, but the dollar compared to some basket of currencies is down 10%, would that represent a currency weighted 8% decline?

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