U.S. stocks in freefall

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cfs
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:20 pm

Buy-2-Hold

In reference to CI's last comment, [in my IPS] I use the term "buy-to-hold" vice the old term of buy and hold.
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Toons
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Toons » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:40 pm

ArthurO wrote:
technovelist wrote:
avalpert wrote:
DonCamillo wrote:Since MOST of the shares of stock in the world are not bought or sold on any given day, that means that MOST share owners also feel that their stocks are worth more to them than the market is currently offering.

It also means that MOST non share owners don't feel the stock is worth what those share owners think it is worth - and there are a lot more of them. Maybe you should be more inclined to agree with them - unless you think you are smarter than the market and thus know the value better than it does. If you don't think you are smarter than it in the smart term and thus able to time your purchases and sales of equities/funds/markets why do you think you are smarter than it in the long term?

That proves that the market price is a minimum value, not the real value.

Not at all, all that proves is that in those cases there is a market buyer who values it more than the last buyer - heck that is what it means every time the next sale is higher. The real value at any given moment is what you can sell it for - plain and simple.


Exactly.


+1, finally a very sensible thought about value, and item or stock is worth at any given moment the amount that someone is willing to pay for it.....


Exactly right ,the market thought my shares of Disney were worth 15.83 in March 2009,today the market thinks they are worth 93.47 ,who knows? :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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cfs
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:21 pm

Toons wrote:. . . . my shares of Disney were worth 15.83 in March 2009,today the market thinks they are worth 93.47 . . .

Make that $93.11 today, but still, smoking !!!
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cfs
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:06 am

Amazing.

This market continues to make the bears look really bad--the bears will have their day, but not today.

Oh, the Dow and Nikkei finishing the year neck-to-neck on the race to 18,000 with the Nikkei telling the Dow "been there, done that . . ."
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by ofcmetz » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:30 am

zaboomafoozarg wrote:
nisiprius wrote:"There may come a day... but this is not that day."


This day, we relabance!


Great on the reference from the movie "300". This is Bogleheads!
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Leeraar » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:07 am

CBS News says there is a "sell off" on Wall Street.

My IPS says I must post a message in this thread when that occurs.

L.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Browser » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:10 am

"U.S. stocks in selloff" :!:
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Toons » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:11 am

Browser wrote:"U.S. stocks in selloff" :!:


Great! :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Browser » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:20 am

The good news is that your Energy fund and Gold are both up today (assuming you stayed the course and haven't bailed yet),
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

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cfs
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:20 am

Sale, what sale?

Ten or twenty percent discount?
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by backpacker » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:31 am

Leeraar wrote:CBS News says there is a "sell off" on Wall Street.

My IPS says I must post a message in this thread when that occurs.

L.


Bloomberg sees your selloff on Wall Street and raises to a Global Selloff.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by ivyhedge » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 am

Our shiba inu saw Bloomberg this morning and said, "much sell". I responded, "many buy".
Polymath.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Browser » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:02 am

The S&P 500 fell 0.9 percent to 2,042.68 at 10:12 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 149.38 points, or 0.8 percent, to 17,703.10.

Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Toons » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:17 am

Oh it seems like just yesterday(decade lows make for opportunity),what a ride it has been,stay the course and think long term,,,,,like Decades :happy
Dow 6,547.05
S&P 676.53
Nasdaq 1,268.64

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/09/markets ... s_newyork/
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by oldzey » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:41 am

Browser wrote:
The S&P 500 fell 0.9 percent to 2,042.68 at 10:12 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 149.38 points, or 0.8 percent, to 17,703.10.

Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.


Hehe +1 8-)
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by chaz » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:40 pm

oldzey wrote:
Browser wrote:
The S&P 500 fell 0.9 percent to 2,042.68 at 10:12 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 149.38 points, or 0.8 percent, to 17,703.10.

Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.


Hehe +1 8-)

+2, :D
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U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by shawcroft » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:42 pm

At the risk of having bricks thrown at me for engaging in some "market timing", might this be a good day to consider rebalancing...if your asset allocation is in need of it?
Shawcroft

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cfs
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:02 pm

Any day is a good day.

Well, Shipmate Shawcroft, no bricks from my side, any day is a good day for re-balancing -IF- your portfolio is in need of it. You have a Merry Christmas.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by FillorKill » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:33 pm

Browser wrote:Oh, the horror! That 0.8% loss puts me on foodstamps.


Not so fast. NQZ already in the green.

But just to be safe:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplement ... ogram-snap

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Toons » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:37 pm

cfs wrote:Any day is a good day.

Well, Shipmate Shawcroft, no bricks from my side, any day is a good day for re-balancing -IF- your portfolio is in need of it. You have a Merry Christmas.


+1 On any day is a good day :happy
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by flyingaway » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:44 pm

Just made two buys yesterday and will do more buys if they fall again.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Bungo » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:44 pm

S&P 500 down 0.11% as I write this. That's a rounding error, not a selloff.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:14 pm

Don't anyone panic.

Don't anyone panic, the Santa Claus Rally is just around the corner !!!

Santa Claus Rally De-Fined ====> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/san ... effect.asp
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by kenyan » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:43 pm

cfs wrote:Don't anyone panic.

Don't anyone panic, the Santa Claus Rally is just around the corner !!!

Santa Claus Rally De-Fined ====> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/san ... effect.asp



The pessimists are on vacation? Seriously?!?
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by 2retire » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:10 pm

Bungo wrote:S&P 500 down 0.11% as I write this. That's a rounding error, not a selloff.

I'm not sure what you use as your source for the markets, but it opened at -0.3 and hasn't gotten higher than that all day.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by TheRightKost87 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:12 pm

2retire wrote:
Bungo wrote:S&P 500 down 0.11% as I write this. That's a rounding error, not a selloff.

I'm not sure what you use as your source for the markets, but it opened at -0.3 and hasn't gotten higher than that all day.


Bungo wrote that after the close yesterday (12/9) not today
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Toons » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:15 pm

Lest we forget:
March 2009 :happy
Dow 6,547.05
S&P 676.53
Nasdaq 1,268.64
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Bungo » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:56 pm

Toons wrote:Lest we forget:
March 2009 :happy
Dow 6,547.05
S&P 676.53
Nasdaq 1,268.64

Yep. :D After experiencing the markets during 2008-2009, it's hard to think of daily moves smaller than +/-5% as anything but noise.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Browser » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:09 pm

While everyone is looking for a "freefall" they'll get killed by a "slowfall" instead, a stealth bear market where you lose your stash a bit at a time without becoming alarmed -- like "boiled frogs". Mr. Market is always figuring a way to head-fake investors and lift their wallets.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Leeraar » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:07 pm

Browser wrote:While everyone is looking for a "freefall" they'll get killed by a "slowfall" instead, a stealth bear market where you lose your stash a bit at a time without becoming alarmed -- like "boiled frogs". Mr. Market is always figuring a way to head-fake investors and lift their wallets.

And now, we have a stealth bull market. Enjoy!

L.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by DonCamillo » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:11 pm

I'm kind of hoping that instead of a Santa Rally, this year will have a (temporary) Grinch Plunge instead, to reduce my MRD for next year and give me a chance to do a little more Roth conversion. :greedy
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by ofcmetz » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:59 am

DonCamillo wrote:I'm kind of hoping that instead of a Santa Rally, this year will have a (temporary) Grinch Plunge instead, to reduce my MRD for next year and give me a chance to do a little more Roth conversion. :greedy



I'm fine with things staying flat for awhile. My returns over the last few years have already far surpassed my expectations. I wouldn't be too put off if we got that Grinch plunge, but I do feel for those living off their portfolio right now.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:43 pm

Well, maybe the Grinch is listening to our Shipmate Don Camillo, so far so good.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by nisiprius » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:54 pm

So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by longinvest » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:05 pm

nisiprius wrote:So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.

Nisiprius,

That wouldn't help keeping people nervous and addicted so that they come back, next week, to learn if markets "recover" from this bad week. Just imagine how boring a talk show about the up-to-the-minute 20-year performance of a three-fund portfolio would be!
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by flyingaway » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:18 pm

Someone was saying that we need a correction this year to have a healthy bull market in 2015. What is the difference between a correction this year and one next year? That is just to shift the gains from this year to the next year.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by nisiprius » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:24 pm

flyingaway wrote:Someone was saying that we need a correction this year to have a healthy bull market in 2015. What is the difference between a correction this year and one next year? That is just to shift the gains from this year to the next year.
Well, in an ideal world I'd prefer to see the stock market gain 10% each and every year--rather than 16.3% this year and 4% next year... or 21% this year and 0% next year... or 142% this year in -50% the next... even if they all amount to a CAGR of 10%/year for two years.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Browser » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:25 pm

If everyone touches their computer screen while reading this thread and has a happy thought, it will ward off bears and we will all get richer. :dollar
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Ged » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:35 pm

Latest quote from the talking heads "This event is increasing dispersion in the market which will be a benefit to people because it's now a stock pickers market". :oops:

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Clearly_Irrational » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:39 pm

Ged wrote:Latest quote from the talking heads "This event is increasing dispersion in the market which will be a benefit to people because it's now a stock pickers market". :oops:


Like talking heads or not, dispersion does indeed assist active investors. Of course the evidence suggests that active traders underperform so I suppose it's kind of like charity for the less fortunate.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Bonnan » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:07 pm

A correction now and rebound in early 2015 would be ideal. With a lower Trad IRA balance on Dec 31st it will reduce my RMD for next year; longer tax deferral.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by oragne lovre » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:48 pm

A "freefall" around the period when funds pay dividend is not a bad thing. For those who re-invest their dividend, their money may get them a bit more equity.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Toons » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:44 am

oragne lovre wrote:A "freefall" around the period when funds pay dividend is not a bad thing. For those who re-invest their dividend, their money may get them a bit more equity.


+1,Indeed as funds will be paying out year end capital gains this month this may be the case(more shares) :happy
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by baw703916 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:24 pm

nisiprius wrote:So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.


Did you know that the Dow is about 10 times as volatile as the S&P, based on daily price moves? ;)
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Leeraar » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:27 pm

baw703916 wrote:
nisiprius wrote:So while I was driving home this afternoon, I'm switching between a couple of radio stations... NPR... and a local "all news" station. And I was going nuts because I've listened to about a total of at least ten minutes of discussion about the markets that talked only about the changes--in the Dow, in the S&P, in the NASDAQ; in points, in percentages; since this morning, since yesterday, since the beginning of the week. And lots of joking-rueful interchanges between newscasters about what a difficult day/week etc. it's been, how the stock market is in turmoil over plunging oil prices...

...and not once did anyone happen to bring us up to date by stating what the value of Dow actually IS.

So, it's still in the 17,000's. Shrug. Not too shabby considering that it never got above the 16,000's until this year.


Did you know that the Dow is about 10 times as volatile as the S&P, based on daily price moves? ;)

Yes, but I believe percentagewise it is about the same. The level of the Dow is about 10x the S&P500.

L.
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by nisiprius » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 pm

baw703916 wrote:Did you know that the Dow is about 10 times as volatile as the S&P, based on daily price moves? ;)
:D

If I were in S&P's marketing department, I would seriously recommend that the S&P 500 Index be rescaled, multiplying it by a factor of ten, making it bigger than the Dow. Surely if they did that, it would only be a matter of time before newscasters started announcing it first, and soon it, rather than the Dow, would be the preeminent index. I mean, who would want 2,000 if they can get 17,000?
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by bottomfisher » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:03 am

nisiprius wrote:If I were in S&P's marketing department, I would seriously recommend that the S&P 500 Index be rescaled, multiplying it by a factor of ten, making it bigger than the Dow. Surely if they did that, it would only be a matter of time before newscasters started announcing it first, and soon it, rather than the Dow, would be the preeminent index. I mean, who would want 2,000 if they can get 17,000?


Why stop there? Let's make it 3D. With 3rd dimension being volume or something of the sort. Data has so much potential these days.

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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Noobvestor » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:09 pm

ivyhedge wrote:Our shiba inu saw Bloomberg this morning and said, "much sell". I responded, "many buy".


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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by Browser » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:00 am

I read that last week's drop was the largest weekly drop since this thread began in 2011. It took awhile but maybe the free fall is back in play. :shock: :shock: All these optimistic dip-buyer posters might be just the ticket. :D
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Re: U.S. stocks in freefall

Post by cfs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:05 am

Browser wrote:I read that last week's drop was the largest weekly drop since this thread began in 2011. It took awhile but maybe the free fall is back in play. :shock: :shock: All these optimistic dip-buyer posters might be just the ticket. :D

Well, actually, I have not read that many "Why Bonds at All?" conversations lately (plus, not that many "Why not 100% Equities").
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