more cheaper ETF from focusshares

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manuvns
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more cheaper ETF from focusshares

Post by manuvns » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:08 am

just came across new set of ETF from focusshares with super low ER of 0.05% . here is the link to article and company

http://seekingalpha.com/article/261138- ... c&wc_num=1

http://www.focusshares.com/

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stratton
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Post by stratton » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:04 pm

Let us know when they hit at least $50 million each. At that point liquidity might be enough to keep the spread narrow and make them investible.

Paul
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.

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anthau
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But Scottrade has entered the commission-free ETF arena

Post by anthau » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:39 pm

Given that the ETFs are commission-free at Scottrade, with no holding period (a la TD Ameritrade), I think that this should be met with more than a yawn, and that the assets will follow.

What's troubling to me about the initial crop of offerings is that only two or three (the Morningstar US Market Index ETF, Large Cap Index ETF, and US Real Estate Index ETF) seem of interest to Bogleheads, with the rest being for traders or targeting market-cap/value segments Bogleheads eschew (aside from Mel and his mid-caps). I'd be much more interested in a broad international, bond, and small-value offering than I am in a Consumer Defensive Index offering.
Best, | | Anth

Pacal
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Post by Pacal » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:30 pm

Thanks for posting this. If they catch on, their expense ratios could give some of Vanguard's ETFs a run for their money.

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tludwig23
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Post by tludwig23 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:50 pm

Focusshare's last set of ETFs (including "PUF" which tracked the SINdex) closed down after less than a year. Seems like they are going a little more mainstream this time.

Pacal
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Post by Pacal » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:51 pm

stratton wrote:Let us know when they hit at least $50 million each. At that point liquidity might be enough to keep the spread narrow and make them investible.

Paul
If they do reach the $50 million mark, they indeed could be worth looking at. Over the past 7 years, the Morningstar mid- and small-cap indexes have consistently outperformed the MSCI indexes that underlie Vanguard's mid- and small-cap funds.

mid-cap
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1& ... XDJX:MMCP&

small-cap
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1& ... XDJX:MSCP&

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tludwig23
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Post by tludwig23 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:21 am

Pacal wrote:Over the past 7 years, the Morningstar mid- and small-cap indexes have consistently outperformed the MSCI indexes that underlie Vanguard's mid- and small-cap funds.

mid-cap
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1& ... XDJX:MMCP&

small-cap
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1& ... XDJX:MSCP&
"Consistently outperformed" is a bit of a reach, based on the data:

1 Year 3Yr Avg 5Yr Avg 10Yr Avg

MORNINGSTAR SMALL CAP 27.33% 10.56% 4.80% 9.19%

MSCI Small cap 1750: 25.54% 10.14% 4.74% 9.46%

timmyp34
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Post by timmyp34 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:29 am

Scottrade is offering these for sale without the usual $7 commission. As close as I can get to duplicating the index, and now its cheaper to dollar cost average, and rebalance.

timmyp34
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Post by timmyp34 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:29 am

Scottrade is offering these for sale without the usual $7 commission. As close as I can get to duplicating the index, and now its cheaper to dollar cost average, and rebalance.

Pacal
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Post by Pacal » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:09 pm

tludwig23 wrote:
Pacal wrote:Over the past 7 years, the Morningstar mid- and small-cap indexes have consistently outperformed the MSCI indexes that underlie Vanguard's mid- and small-cap funds.

mid-cap
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1& ... XDJX:MMCP&

small-cap
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1& ... XDJX:MSCP&
"Consistently outperformed" is a bit of a reach, based on the data:

1 Year 3Yr Avg 5Yr Avg 10Yr Avg

MORNINGSTAR SMALL CAP 27.33% 10.56% 4.80% 9.19%

MSCI Small cap 1750: 25.54% 10.14% 4.74% 9.46%
First of all, I qualified, and began, my statement with "OVER THE PAST 7 YEARS", so what I actually said is actually the case according to the charts I linked with that statement...

Furthermore, Morningstar shows the Morningstar index having a 9.19% 10-year average and the Vanguard MSCI index fund having a 8.87% 10-year average. Morningstar's numbers match Vanguard's own numbers (8.86%; https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... st=tab%3A1)... So I don't consider this "a bit of a reach".

And by the way, all of my investments are in Vanguard funds. If any bias exist on my part, it's toward Vanguard!

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tludwig23
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Post by tludwig23 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:41 am

Pacal wrote:
First of all, I qualified, and began, my statement with "OVER THE PAST 7 YEARS", so what I actually said is actually the case according to the charts I linked with that statement...

Furthermore, Morningstar shows the Morningstar index having a 9.19% 10-year average and the Vanguard MSCI index fund...
1. I'm not sure why it is important that A outperformed B over 7 years, if it didn't over 5 or 10.

2. Above you compare the 10 year performance of the Morningstar index to the Vanguard index fund. You should compare an index to an index. Even though Vanguard's expenses are low, the fund will underperform the index over time due to expenses. My numbers were from the MSCI website.

3. Morningstar SC holds around 775 stocks, MSCI holds 1750, so there may be a difference in risk. It is really only valid to compare risk adjusted returns.

Pacal
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Post by Pacal » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:58 pm

tludwig23 wrote:
Pacal wrote:
First of all, I qualified, and began, my statement with "OVER THE PAST 7 YEARS", so what I actually said is actually the case according to the charts I linked with that statement...

Furthermore, Morningstar shows the Morningstar index having a 9.19% 10-year average and the Vanguard MSCI index fund...
1. I'm not sure why it is important that A outperformed B over 7 years, if it didn't over 5 or 10.

2. Above you compare the 10 year performance of the Morningstar index to the Vanguard index fund. You should compare an index to an index. Even though Vanguard's expenses are low, the fund will underperform the index over time due to expenses. My numbers were from the MSCI website.

3. Morningstar SC holds around 775 stocks, MSCI holds 1750, so there may be a difference in risk. It is really only valid to compare risk adjusted returns.
Sheesh, really tludwig....... You're splitting hairs now. If your goal is to "win", well then you can "win".... seriously man/gal....

And since you're splitting hairs, the data that YOU posted DOES show that the Morningstar index outperformed at the 5-year interval.... by 0.06%........

And once again, all of my investments are through Vanguard ETFs and I still, and always will, prefer them over the Scottrade FocusShares. So if there's any bias on my part, it's in favor of the Vanguard ETFs!

I was simply adding to the OP's information, nothing less and nothing more...
Last edited by Pacal on Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bh
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Post by bh » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:20 pm

stratton wrote:Let us know when they hit at least $50 million each. At that point liquidity might be enough to keep the spread narrow and make them investible.

Paul
with the scottrade connection i would expect these to ramp up fairly quickly

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