Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

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ObliviousInvestor
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Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

Effective today, Vanguard is reducing the minimum on Admiral shares (on non-active funds) to $10,000 from $100,000.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... t-10062010
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iceport
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Re: Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by iceport »

ObliviousInvestor wrote:Effective today, Vanguard is reducing the minimum on Admiral shares (on non-active funds) to $10,000 from $100,000.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... t-10062010

:sharebeer

:greedy

--Pete
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Opponent Process
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Post by Opponent Process »

insanity. I'm awaiting Fidelity's response. :D
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NightOwl
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Post by NightOwl »

That's huge for me -- I was a long ways away from Admiral in several funds. Wow.

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btownguy
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Post by btownguy »

Wow, that's great. It looks like the Admiral shares have the same ER's as the ETF's. I wonder if I should convert my ETF's over to Admiral share mutual funds now.
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brisni
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Post by brisni »

I just converted 5 funds. That was fun!
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Post by minesweep »

So I really didn’t need to convert 4 of my funds in my tax-deferred account (and 1 in my taxable account) for the ETF versions to get the lower expense fee after all.

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sscritic
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Post by sscritic »

It was already covered in another thread, but spreading the news again doesn't hurt.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61102

and here

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61120
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Sheepdog
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Post by Sheepdog »

If only Vanguard would give us Admiral shares expense ratios in the Target Retirement funds.
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henry
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Post by henry »

Just noticed the "Convert to Admiral Shares" link on My Accounts and Activity page this morning and wondered what that was about since I'm a long ways from $100,000 in my mutual funds.

This is great news!
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canucknyc
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Post by canucknyc »

Aw man - now I need to update the ticker in my spreadsheet! :wink:
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SpringMan
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Post by SpringMan »

Good news but now I need to gerrymander our portfolio. Obsoletes the hold fund 10 years and have 50K rule to obtain admiral shares. Should reduce some of the pressure to convert to ETFs for lower expense ratios.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
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Sunny Sarkar
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Re: Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by Sunny Sarkar »

ObliviousInvestor wrote:Effective today, Vanguard is reducing the minimum on Admiral shares (on non-active funds) to $10,000 from $100,000.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... t-10062010
This is HUGE! Nothing tasted so great since my first bite into a pepperoni pizza.

:cheers:
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Imperabo
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Post by Imperabo »

I guess they noticed I was gradually pulling everything out of Vanguard to put in EFTs because there was no logical reason to have it in funds.
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greg24
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Post by greg24 »

brisni wrote:I just converted 5 funds. That was fun!
How did you convert them?
infecto
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Post by infecto »

greg24 wrote:
brisni wrote:I just converted 5 funds. That was fun!
How did you convert them?
Online, under accounts.
sscritic
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Post by sscritic »

Go here and click on log on
Are you eligible now?
If your investment in a fund qualifies for Admiral Shares, we'll automatically promote your shares tax-free. Or, to start taking advantage of the cost savings immediately, log on to your account.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/conten ... iewJSP.jsp
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tetractys
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Post by tetractys »

Wow! Vanguard does it again. Those folks really are working for their investors, and regularly find different ways to lower expenses. -- Tet
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Post by gkaplan »

Deleted.
Last edited by gkaplan on Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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aainvestor
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Post by aainvestor »

henry wrote:Just noticed the "Convert to Admiral Shares" link on My Accounts and Activity page this morning and wondered what that was about since I'm a long ways from $100,000 in my mutual funds.

This is great news!
I saw that last night and was wondering about it too, I have over 50K in a couple of funds but neither had been open for 10 years. I don't have a fund with less than 10k so I may be all admiral funds soon!!!
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Tyrobi
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Post by Tyrobi »

Wow! :thumbsup

Very nice! Just manually convert mine to Admiral Share. It's time to update my IPS again :).

Thanks to Vanguard, my weighted ER for the whole portfolio is now down to 0.08%.
Last edited by Tyrobi on Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:07 am, edited 4 times in total.
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global
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Post by global »

Grinning from ear to ear, this is superb news!
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SpringMan
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Post by SpringMan »

Vanguard Total International Index currently has no admiral shares but allegedly they are coming soon. Good to know 10K can buy them.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
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Post by gkaplan »

I'd like to see Vanguard offer Admiral Shares for its international small-cap index fund and its small-cap value fund. (I don't understand why Vanguard offers Admiral Shares for its small-cap fund but not its small-cap value fund.)
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Post by joruva »

SpringMan wrote:Vanguard Total International Index currently has no admiral shares but allegedly they are coming soon. Good to know 10K can buy them.

A temporary win for slice and dicers?

0.32% VGTSX Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund

0.16% VEUSX European Stock Index Admiral Shares ($10,000 min)
0.16% VPADX Vanguard Pacific Stock ($10,000 min)
0.27% VEMAX Emerging Markets Stock Index Admiral Shares ($10,000 min, PF .5%, RF .25%)

At approximate market weights: (0.16*.5 + 0.16*.25 + 0.27*.25) = 0.1875%, not including purchase and redemption fees for EM.

Probably not worth the effort, especially in taxable. Hopefully they unveil the Total International Index Admiral Shares soon.
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Post by nisiprius »

Admiralble!
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Post by ScottW »

btownguy wrote:Wow, that's great. It looks like the Admiral shares have the same ER's as the ETF's. I wonder if I should convert my ETF's over to Admiral share mutual funds now.
The conversion is one way--from fund to ETF. To go from ETF to fund, you have to sell the ETF and then purchase the fund separately.
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Goldfinger
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Post by Goldfinger »

Well, that was easy!

Not to be greedy or anything, but I sure wish this applied to 403(b) plans. Not complaining, though. My spousal unit's IRA rollover is our biggest account, so we're happy w/this.

Definitely need to remember to change your ticket symbols, as stated by canucknyc.

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Doc
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Now they did it?

Post by Doc »

Too little, too late. :cry:

We converted all our (newly) eligible funds to lower costs alternatives ages ago.

Sith!!!!!
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Learn2earn
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50 for active, 10 for indexed

Post by Learn2earn »

That's what I was advised by the rep I was just working with. I was shocked when he told me I was eligible for Admiral, since the amount wasn't 100. Yippee!!!
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Post by Learn2earn »

Sorry, didn't make that clear 10 for index, 50 for actively managed. Will automatically convert as of Oct 24
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SpringMan
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Post by SpringMan »

Tax Managed funds still require $100K for admiral shares. :cry:
Best Wishes, SpringMan
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Post by btownguy »

and some have been dropped from $100 to $50...

VIPSX and VMLTX come to mind.
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simplesimon
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Post by simplesimon »

Wow, crazy news! :D
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Post by mikep »

btownguy wrote:Wow, that's great. It looks like the Admiral shares have the same ER's as the ETF's. I wonder if I should convert my ETF's over to Admiral share mutual funds now.
You'd be out of the market for the 3 day settlement. Now.. whether to sell the VNQ ETF and buy Admiral shares.. ? I'd be out of the market for 3 days for REIT index. And new 1% redemption fee for a year but that doesn't bother me since I'm a long term investor.
Last edited by mikep on Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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iceport
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Re: Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by iceport »

QUESTIONS:

How is the cost basis accounting handled after a conversion from one share class to another in a taxable account? Will I have to synthesize a new history of shares purchased using historic price data? Is the duration of all shares preserved after the conversion?

This doesn't apply to me, but what would happen if admiral shares weren't even available when the first investor class shares were purchased?

--Pete
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Re: Now they did it?

Post by HueyLD »

Doc wrote:Too little, too late. :cry:

We converted all our (newly) eligible funds to lower costs alternatives ages ago.

Sith!!!!!
Exactly!

However, the lower balance requirements will be good for both small investors and Vanguard. I think this step will also slow down the march out of mutual funds into comparable ETFs.

I only hope that Vanguard will add Adm shares to more funds. As is currently, a lot of VG funds still don't have Adm shares.

Does anyone know VG's criteria for establishing Adm shares?
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nvboglehead
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Great News for Some Doing Roth Conversions This Year

Post by nvboglehead »

I wasn't looking forward to losing Admiral class shares for some of the funds that I am converting from Traditional to Roth IRA this year. This is wonderful news, as the new shares will also be Admiral.

Vanguard, thank you for always keeping the shareholders' interests in mind!

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livesoft
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Re: Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by livesoft »

petrico wrote:QUESTIONS:

How is the cost basis accounting handled after a conversion from one share class to another in a taxable account? Will I have to synthesize a new history of shares purchased using historic price data? Is the duration of all shares preserved after the conversion?

This doesn't apply to me, but what would happen if admiral shares weren't even available when the first investor class shares were purchased?

--Pete
Cost basis is trivial. If you change to Admiral, it's EXACTLY like a stock-split with a ticker symbol change. Your Quicken or MS Money will handle it trivially.
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iceport
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Re: Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by iceport »

livesoft wrote:
petrico wrote:QUESTIONS:

How is the cost basis accounting handled after a conversion from one share class to another in a taxable account? Will I have to synthesize a new history of shares purchased using historic price data? Is the duration of all shares preserved after the conversion?

This doesn't apply to me, but what would happen if admiral shares weren't even available when the first investor class shares were purchased?

--Pete
Cost basis is trivial. If you change to Admiral, it's EXACTLY like a stock-split with a ticker symbol change. Your Quicken or MS Money will handle it trivially.
I like "t" word, but what would the poor slob do who's tracking his cost basis on a bootlegged copy of Excel 2000?

--Pete
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Re: Lower Minimum on Admiral Shares

Post by Tristrex »

livesoft wrote:
petrico wrote:QUESTIONS:

How is the cost basis accounting handled after a conversion from one share class to another in a taxable account? Will I have to synthesize a new history of shares purchased using historic price data? Is the duration of all shares preserved after the conversion?

This doesn't apply to me, but what would happen if admiral shares weren't even available when the first investor class shares were purchased?

--Pete
Cost basis is trivial. If you change to Admiral, it's EXACTLY like a stock-split with a ticker symbol change. Your Quicken or MS Money will handle it trivially.
Vanguard's site also says they track the cost basis on their side as well.
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Post by sscritic »

If 8,437 shares with a basis of $67,578 is converted to 6,538 new shares, the basis of the 6,538 shares is $67,578.

You don't need excel or quicken.
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iceport
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Post by iceport »

sscritic wrote:If 8,437 shares with a basis of $67,578 is converted to 6,538 new shares, the basis of the 6,538 shares is $67,578.

You don't need excel or quicken.
Okay, but the number of shares is different. If using FIFO, I'll still have to figure out which shares, typically purchased monthly, are being sold, right?

It wouldn't be difficult to create new share/share price entries for all the old purchases, but is that how it's done?
Tristrex wrote:Vanguard's site also says they track the cost basis on their side as well.
For mutual funds, Vanguard automatically uses the average cost method. Average cost calculates the average price for shares sold, spreading gains and losses evenly across all your shares. (This method is not available for stocks, bonds, and some exchange-traded funds.)
--Pete
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Is there a point in lowering the Admiral price point?

Post by joppy »

Is there really a point in having two share classes - one with a $3k minimum investment, and one with a $10k minimum investment, with different expense ratios?

This would seem to imply that Vanguard has a *lot* of mutual fund accounts with between $3k and $10k -- or at least sufficiently many accounts, with a sufficiently high cost to justify having two share classes.

Or perhaps that they are planning to drop the minimum for the more expensive share class from $3k -- raising the expense ratio on the that share class -- but allowing a larger number of investors a seamless path from a lower starting point. Interesting market penetration tradeoff, if that is what they plan.

- Joppy
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Post by pteam »

This is amazing! This just saved all of us tons of money over the course of our lives!
MDOmnis
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International and Small Cap

Post by MDOmnis »

This is great news, but unfortunately, it doesn't help me. I've got Total International Index and Small-Cap Value Index in my Roth, rounding out some crappy 401k offerings in those areas and these two funds don't offer Admiral shares. Hopefully soon though.

Where do people hear that Admiral shares are coming soon for Total International?
-Matt
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pteam
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Post by pteam »

Will a taxable event exist if you convert to admiral shares?
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iceport
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Post by iceport »

pteam wrote:Will a taxable event exist if you convert to admiral shares?
No. Not even in a taxable account:
Vanguard wrote:Changes from Investor Shares to Admiral Shares of the same fund are tax-free.
(I just don't know how to handle the FIFO cost basis accounting yet.)

--Pete
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Re: International and Small Cap

Post by camper »

MDOmnis wrote:This is great news, but unfortunately, it doesn't help me. I've got Total International Index and Small-Cap Value Index in my Roth, rounding out some crappy 401k offerings in those areas and these two funds don't offer Admiral shares. Hopefully soon though.

Where do people hear that Admiral shares are coming soon for Total International?
Vanguard story here #3
Last edited by camper on Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mikep
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Post by mikep »

Too bad the AP can't do math. All of the costs stated in this article are 10x. VTSAX charges 70 cents per $1000, not $7 for example..

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... =D9IM9DTG2
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