Equivalent to BRK.B

[HighLonesome]

What is the closest VG/FID/Schwab funds to BRK.B? I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet leaves Berkshire, the fund may see a dark period.

[TomatoTomahto]

Maybe, maybe not. My wife and I don’t generally invest in individual stocks. She had suggested buying a share of BRK.A many years ago; it has done fabulously well for us. A short while ago, she suggested buying another share. We did so, and it has done well.

I am sure BRK will do well after Warren dies. It’s not as though he doesn’t know his age. He has planned succession.

[bombcar]

BRK.B is likely what you want, I suspect it will lean more toward being even more of a "closed fund" afterwards.

I daresay there are a ton of people waiting for Buffet's passing to "grab some BRK cheap" and I suspect that won't happen (and waiting for it to happen has seen the price continually rise).

[TomatoTomahto]

I daresay there are a ton of people waiting for Buffet's passing to "grab some BRK cheap" and I suspect that won't happen (and waiting for it to happen has seen the price continually rise).

I agree. My heirs are going to have many dinners on the people waiting to grab some cheap BRK. I wonder if they think they’re the only ones who noticed that he’s old?

[nisiprius]

The Vanguard 500 Index Fund, VFIAX or VOO, for two reasons:

1) Because Warren Buffett has written::

Over the years, I’ve often been asked for investment advice, and in the process of answering I’ve learned a good deal about human behavior. My regular recommendation has been a low-cost S&P 500 index fund.

He's said this repeatedly, sometimes even mentioning Vanguard by name, and it is the fund he chose to bet on in his famous ten-year bet with hedge-fund investor Ted Seides.

2) Since about 2008 or so, BRK.B has tracked with the S&P 500, and thus the Vanguard 500 Index Fund has been doing roughly the same as BRK.B.

Source

[smitcat]

Maybe, maybe not. My wife and I don’t generally invest in individual stocks. She had suggested buying a share of BRK.A many years ago; it has done fabulously well for us. A short while ago, she suggested buying another share. We did so, and it has done well.

I am sure BRK will do well after Warren dies. It’s not as though he doesn’t know his age. He has planned succession.

Are all of your equities with BRK?

[HighLonesome]

Maybe, maybe not. My wife and I don’t generally invest in individual stocks. She had suggested buying a share of BRK.A many years ago; it has done fabulously well for us. A short while ago, she suggested buying another share. We did so, and it has done well.

I am sure BRK will do well after Warren dies. It’s not as though he doesn’t know his age. He has planned succession.

I agree that the future of BRK has most likely been very well planned out. I am more concerned about the emotional aspect that may result in selling initially after his leaving.

NOTE I am not looking to swoop in and buy during this development should it happen.

[nisiprius]

...I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet[t] leaves Berkshire, the fund may see a dark period...

I wouldn't assume such a thing.

Bill Gross created the PIMCO Total Return Fund (PTTRX) in 1987 and managed it from 1987 through 2014. The press called him the "Bond King." Many believed the success of the fund was due to Gross' personal bond-picking genius. When he was forced out in the fund hemorrhaged two-thirds of its assets in a little more than a year. Many investors moved to a competitor, the Metropolitan West Total Return Fund (MWTIX).

Source



As you can see, despite having to deal with massive fund outflows, PTTRX without Gross performed just fine, actually outperforming MWTIX.

I don't know what the consensus of financial writers was in 2014, but many of them did comment that PIMCO had an experienced team that was familiar with Gross's strategy, and much the same thing is said of Berkshire Hathaway.

(By the way, BRK.B isn't a "fund," it's just an individual stock. Funds have a legal structure and investor protections that individual stocks do not have).

[TomatoTomahto]

Maybe, maybe not. My wife and I don’t generally invest in individual stocks. She had suggested buying a share of BRK.A many years ago; it has done fabulously well for us. A short while ago, she suggested buying another share. We did so, and it has done well.

I am sure BRK will do well after Warren dies. It’s not as though he doesn’t know his age. He has planned succession.

Are all of your equities with BRK?

I no longer disclose our asset allocation, but will say that we have various s&p 500, international, and Europe holdings.

It’s unfortunate, as I believe I could learn more if I shared more, but a few years ago I shared more than I should have and discovered the “not so nice” side of BH; perhaps not wealth shaming but definitely “comfortable shaming.”

[tibbitts]

...the fund may see a dark period.

It's important to understand that BRK is not a "fund." It wasn't that long ago that everybody said GE was just like a fund too... until it wasn't.

[smitcat]

Are all of your equities with BRK?

I no longer disclose our asset allocation, but will say that we have various s&p 500, international, and Europe holdings.

It’s unfortunate, as I believe I could learn more if I shared more, but a few years ago I shared more than I should have and discovered the “not so nice” side of BH; perhaps not wealth shaming but definitely “comfortable shaming.”

I am never a fan of sharing personal information which can connect a poster to their identity.
Just asking financial questions so we can all learn about best practices and strategies.

If you have various equity holdings what are the reasons for BRK?
- why not 100% BRK?
- what is the main advantage/purpose of BRK?
- how do you determine the % of BRK vs all other equity holdings?

[rich126]

Normally I would say just buy the stock (BRK) but it is priced quite high to historical levels. While the post Buffett might be interesting, people often fixate on what stocks it owns and how much cash it holds but it actually owns a large number of stocks outright and those generous a sizable cash flow for the company to invest.

I don't think it would be bad to buy a bit of BRK and when the price settles a bit, increase your holdings. Usually one of the better metrics to value that type of stock is price to book value and there are several online sites that track the current levels.

[rockstar]

I like Berkshire for taxable since it doesn’t pay a dividend and returns roughly what you get from the S&P 500. It’s also not that volatile unlike other individual stocks.

At this point, I have no idea how involved Buffett is with the company.

[TomatoTomahto]

If you have various equity holdings what are the reasons for BRK?
- why not 100% BRK? whole haystack
- what is the main advantage/purpose of BRK? I believe Warren knows how to cope with a recession
- how do you determine the % of BRK vs all other equity holdings? Nothing scientific about it

[smitcat]

If you have various equity holdings what are the reasons for BRK?
- why not 100% BRK? whole haystack
- what is the main advantage/purpose of BRK? I believe Warren knows how to cope with a recession
- how do you determine the % of BRK vs all other equity holdings? Nothing scientific about it

I see no strategy. We use BRK in our taxble account along with other selected funds to generate lower dividends as that fits our overall plan best.
I can see whay the OP was looking into BRK and the alternatives for those reasons.

[smitcat]

I like Berkshire for taxable since it doesn’t pay a dividend and returns roughly what you get from the S&P 500. It’s also not that volatile unlike other individual stocks.

At this point, I have no idea how involved Buffett is with the company.

Yes - this is exactly how and why we use BRK.

[LektorAJ]

2) Since about 2008 or so, BRK.B has tracked with the S&P 500, and thus the Vanguard 500 Index Fund has been doing roughly the same as BRK.B.

Does this include re-investment of dividends for the Vanguard fund? Because if not then BRK is lagging significantly. If so, then it might make more sense for me (non-American, in my country we pay dividend tax but no capital gains tax if we hold for a year) to choose BRK over SPY.

[nisiprius]

I believe Warren knows how to cope with a recession[/color]

According to the NBER, the last two recessions were:



From 12/1/2007 through 6/2009:



2020 was kind of anomalous, but it's data and I don't want to throw it out:

From 2/1/2020 through 4/30/2020



So VTI experienced a -35% decline, while BRK.B only declined -30%.

I don't see any Buffett magic in either recession.

[nisiprius]

2) Since about 2008 or so, BRK.B has tracked with the S&P 500, and thus the Vanguard 500 Index Fund has been doing roughly the same as BRK.B.

Does this include re-investment of dividends for the Vanguard fund?

Yes.

[TomatoTomahto]

I see no strategy. We use BRK in our taxble account along with other selected funds to generate lower dividends as that fits our overall plan best.

I thought it went without saying that we appreciate BRK’s no dividend. We also use Massachusetts municipal bond funds because we appreciate their tax status.

[exodusNH]

What is the closest VG/FID/Schwab funds to BRK.B? I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet leaves Berkshire, the fund may see a dark period.

BRK.B is not a fund.

It's a single company stock.

Many people had similar beliefs about the dominance and stability of GE.

[enad]

What is the closest VG/FID/Schwab funds to BRK.B? I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet leaves Berkshire, the stock may see a dark period.

The closest to BRK.B is the S&P500 | VOO . From the Berkshire annual report, Buffet Buffet wrote:

At 94, it won’t be long before Greg Abel replaces me as CEO and will be writing the annual letters. Greg shares the Berkshire creed that a “report” is what a Berkshire CEO annually owes to owners. And he also understands that if you start fooling your shareholders, you will soon believe your own baloney and be fooling yourself as well.

In the annual report on pages 14 & 15 one can see how Berkshire has compared it's stock with that of the S&P500. I don't think you have anything to fear after Buffet is gone, Buffet has been grooming his successor for a while, and Greg Abel shares Buffet's vision. The company is in good hands.

[HighLonesome]

What is the closest VG/FID/Schwab funds to BRK.B? I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet leaves Berkshire, the fund may see a dark period.

BRK.B is not a fund.

It's a single company stock.

Many people had similar beliefs about the dominance and stability of GE.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

[HighLonesome]

What is the closest VG/FID/Schwab funds to BRK.B? I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet leaves Berkshire, the stock may see a dark period.

The closest to BRK.B is the S&P500 | VOO . From the Berkshire annual report, Buffet Buffet wrote:

At 94, it won’t be long before Greg Abel replaces me as CEO and will be writing the annual letters. Greg shares the Berkshire creed that a “report” is what a Berkshire CEO annually owes to owners. And he also understands that if you start fooling your shareholders, you will soon believe your own baloney and be fooling yourself as well.

In the annual report on pages 14 & 15 one can see how Berkshire has compared it's stock with that of the S&P500. I don't think you have anything to fear after Buffet is gone, Buffet has been grooming his successor for a while, and Greg Abel shares Buffet's vision. The company is in good hands.

I wasn't questioning his successor but wondering if an overreaction to this event would cause the price to drop. Over the past few weeks we can see how much the media can influence buyers opinions. Many supposed BHs are shaken and violating the "rules".

[smitcat]

I see no strategy. We use BRK in our taxble account along with other selected funds to generate lower dividends as that fits our overall plan best.

I thought it went without saying that we appreciate BRK’s no dividend. We also use Massachusetts municipal bond funds because we appreciate their tax status.

It did go without saying in your post.
Have you modeled your preferred withdrawals after you are retired and not recieving earned income? That would be a good first step in analyzing how much of which investments fit your future plans.
BRK is certainly not nearly the 'whole haystack', BRK does not pay divs. - which is more important and why requires some personal strategy.

[dkturner]

The Vanguard 500 Index Fund, VFIAX or VOO, for two reasons:

1) Because Warren Buffett has written::

Over the years, I’ve often been asked for investment advice, and in the process of answering I’ve learned a good deal about human behavior. My regular recommendation has been a low-cost S&P 500 index fund.

He's said this repeatedly, sometimes even mentioning Vanguard by name, and it is the fund he chose to bet on in his famous ten-year bet with hedge-fund investor Ted Seides.

2) Since about 2008 or so, BRK.B has tracked with the S&P 500, and thus the Vanguard 500 Index Fund has been doing roughly the same as BRK.B.

Source

If you hold VFIAX in a taxable account the annualized total returns would be closer to 10.31% for BRK-B and 9.91% for VFIAX, due to the “tax drag” on VFIAX (as per Vanguard).

Berkshire Hathaway has been a good diversifier for an individual with a large S&P 500 index fund holding. Since 1965 there have been 13 years when the S&P 500 index had negative total returns (averaging -13.7%). During those 13 years Berkshires’s average return was a positive 1.9%.

[smitcat]

The Vanguard 500 Index Fund, VFIAX or VOO, for two reasons:

1) Because Warren Buffett has written::He's said this repeatedly, sometimes even mentioning Vanguard by name, and it is the fund he chose to bet on in his famous ten-year bet with hedge-fund investor Ted Seides.

2) Since about 2008 or so, BRK.B has tracked with the S&P 500, and thus the Vanguard 500 Index Fund has been doing roughly the same as BRK.B.

Source

If you hold VFIAX in a taxable account the annualized total returns would be closer to 10.31% for BRK-B and 9.91% for VFIAX, due to the “tax drag” on VFIAX (as per Vanguard).

Numerous assumptions required to make this comparison.

[enad]

The closest to BRK.B is the S&P500 | VOO . From the Berkshire annual report, Buffet Buffet wrote:

At 94, it won’t be long before Greg Abel replaces me as CEO and will be writing the annual letters. Greg shares the Berkshire creed that a “report” is what a Berkshire CEO annually owes to owners. And he also understands that if you start fooling your shareholders, you will soon believe your own baloney and be fooling yourself as well.

In the annual report on pages 14 & 15 one can see how Berkshire has compared it's stock with that of the S&P500. I don't think you have anything to fear after Buffet is gone, Buffet has been grooming his successor for a while, and Greg Abel shares Buffet's vision. The company is in good hands.

I wasn't questioning his successor but wondering if an overreaction to this event would cause the price to drop. Over the past few weeks we can see how much the media can influence buyers opinions. Many supposed BHs are shaken and violating the "rules".

You can't control an overreaction if there is one. If you feel it would harm your portfolio then you can sell your shares or adjust your asset allocation until you no longer have a fear of an overreaction. Best wishes. Tune out the noise

Edited to fix a link

[secondopinion]

I like Berkshire for taxable since it doesn’t pay a dividend and returns roughly what you get from the S&P 500. It’s also not that volatile unlike other individual stocks.

At this point, I have no idea how involved Buffett is with the company.

A lot of risk for the sake of not paying taxes now…

[TomatoTomahto]

I like Berkshire for taxable since it doesn’t pay a dividend and returns roughly what you get from the S&P 500. It’s also not that volatile unlike other individual stocks.
At this point, I have no idea how involved Buffett is with the company.

A lot of risk for the sake of not paying taxes now…

It is well suited for those in a high tax bracket and investing for their heirs.

[nisiprius]

...I wasn't questioning his successor but wondering if an overreaction to this event would cause the price to drop. Over the past few weeks we can see how much the media can influence buyers opinions. Many supposed BHs are shaken and violating the "rules"...

Sure it could, but the whole point of the efficient market hypothesis is that stock prices are a random walk around the "correct" price. Trying to predict and take advantage of predictions based on some kind of fundamentals is difficult enough. Trying to guess the market psychology of other investors and outpsych them will they in turn are trying to outpsych you is insane.

Everybody knows how old Warren Buffett is. (Ok, not me... look it up... Wikipedia says 94). Everyone knows that Charlie Munger has died. Everyone knows the mortality tables.

Everybody also knows that Berkshire Hathaway's rate of growth, is sustainable. There's no reason for it not to continue roughly matching the S&P 500. It's not like NVIDIA, which, if it keeps growing at its present rate, will constitute 98% of the S&P 500 by 2040. It's not like ARKK doubling in a single year.

Unless you are prepared to say "the market thinks thus-and-such will happen when Warren Buffett is no longer chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, but I think something completely different will happen and I am right and the market is wrong," you have nothing actionable.

[rockstar]

I like Berkshire for taxable since it doesn’t pay a dividend and returns roughly what you get from the S&P 500. It’s also not that volatile unlike other individual stocks.

At this point, I have no idea how involved Buffett is with the company.

A lot of risk for the sake of not paying taxes now…

I have a lot of cushion if you even look out five years.

VOO 107%
BRK 152%

Berkshire has to drop by a lot to leave me worse off.

[bombcar]

Owning BRK.A is basically the same as owning BRK.B; because if you need the value you can sell it or convert it.

BRK.A is a great thing to leave to heirs, because if you die holding it you have a tax-advantaged investment with a stepped up basis and no dividends.

Remembering that BRK is NOT a fund is important because there are risks to BRK that don't apply to (especially index) funds.

[GP813]

When Buffett passes I think the bigger danger will be outside forces trying to break up pieces of Berkshire to "unlock value".

[illumination]

I own some Berkshire, truthfully I do think it will have headwinds once Buffett dies. Not because suddenly they make bad decisions and make less money without him in charge, but Buffett is a brand and stocks often sell on a narrative. You can see from the annual meetings he obviously has a following, do you think attendance will be down significantly years after he dies? Of course. I think that sort of sentiment will also be there regarding demand for the stock.

What most worries me about Berkshire if say they didn't buy Apple stock (usually Buffett stayed away from tech, likely someone else made this call) it would have significantly underperformed the market over the last decade. It shows how fragile some of this is when money is being actively managed that one decision can be huge.

To me the biggest advantage Berkshire has is that it doesn't pay a dividend.

[sycamore]

When Buffett passes I think the bigger danger will be outside forces trying to break up pieces of Berkshire to "unlock value".

Or worse... force it to pay dividends!

[arcticpineapplecorp.]

I wasn't questioning his successor but wondering if an overreaction to this event would cause the price to drop. Over the past few weeks we can see how much the media can influence buyers opinions. Many supposed BHs are shaken and violating the "rules".

so you're looking for a short term irrational investor behavior event to profit from?

as Buffett recently reminded us (on March 3rd, 2025), we (as economists often do) should always ask, "...and then what?"

regardng BHers violating the "rules", all I can say is Morgan Housel wrote about this in "Same as Ever" (source: https://www.amazon.com/Same-Ever-Guide- ... 0593332709). Events may change, but people never do.

[rockstar]

When Buffett passes I think the bigger danger will be outside forces trying to break up pieces of Berkshire to "unlock value".

Or worse... force it to pay dividends!

There seems to be this irrational desire for people who buy individual stocks to do poorly. Of course, this is followed up my FOMO if it works out.

But it’s really about managing risk along with good luck.

[Harmanic]

CET has been called baby Berkshire. It is also heavy in insurance and value.

[smitcat]

Owning BRK.A is basically the same as owning BRK.B; because if you need the value you can sell it or convert it.

BRK.A is a great thing to leave to heirs, because if you die holding it you have a tax-advantaged investment with a stepped up basis and no dividends.

Remembering that BRK is NOT a fund is important because there are risks to BRK that don't apply to (especially index) funds.

"BRK.A is a great thing to leave to heirs, because if you die holding it you have a tax-advantaged investment with a stepped up basis and no dividends."
What is the difference between BRK.A and BRK.B if/when left for heirs?

[bombcar]

What is the difference between BRK.A and BRK.B if/when left for heirs?

BRK.A is bigger! And might cause fights if you don't have enough shares for heirs.

I mean, you can buy BRK.B like anyone, but then you'd not be in the cool kids club.

[smitcat]

What is the difference between BRK.A and BRK.B if/when left for heirs?

BRK.A is bigger! And might cause fights if you don't have enough shares for heirs.

I mean, you can buy BRK.B like anyone, but then you'd not be in the cool kids club.

So I can summarize this as there is no difference.

[nisiprius]

CET has been called baby Berkshire.

Really?

Source



In 1998, it went down while Berkshire was going up. Then it went up while Berkshire was going down. Then it went down while Berkshire was going up. Then, OK, it more or less paralleled Berkshire.

From 2010 on, you can argue that it roughly tracked Berkshire, but so did the Vanguard 500 Index Fund (VFIAX) and to my eye Berkshire was tracked better by VFIAX than by CET.

[TomatoTomahto]

BRK.A is bigger! And might cause fights if you don't have enough shares for heirs.
I mean, you can buy BRK.B like anyone, but then you'd not be in the cool kids club.

So I can summarize this as there is no difference.

Well, almost no difference. A BRK.A share can be converted to 1,500 Class B shares, but not the other direction. Class B shares have 1/10,000 of a vote compared to Class A shares. Historically, Class A trades at a price slightly higher than 1,500x Class B but that is not guaranteed.

[nisiprius]

I am reporting the results of a web search. That's all I am doing here. It's difficult because by far the most common use of the phrase "baby Berkshire" is to refer to the BRK.B share class.

15 Mini/Baby Berkshires (Berkshire Clones With Long Runways)

15 quality companies (Mini/Baby Berkshires)

Adobe (ADBE):
Alleghany (Y):
Amphenol (APH):
Carlisle Cos (CSL):
Danaher (DHR):
Dover (DOV):
Emerson Electric (EMR):
Graham Corporation (GHM):
Fairfax Financial Holdings (FRFHF):
Illinois Tool Works (ITW):
Markel (MKL):
Post Holdings (POST):
Roper Technologies (ROP):
Stryker Corp (SYK):
WD-40 (WDFC):

Testfol.io will only chart five assets. II want to include Markel, which seems to come up as lot as a "baby Berkshire," so I'll chart BRK-B, then Markel, then the next three after Markel on that list.

Source



I see darned little resemblance. I think the "baby Berkshire" talk is just talk.

[Harmanic]

CET has been called baby Berkshire.

Really?

Source



In 1998, it went down while Berkshire was going up. Then it went up while Berkshire was going down. Then it went down while Berkshire was going up. Then, OK, it more or less paralleled Berkshire.

From 2010 on, you can argue that it roughly tracked Berkshire, but so did the Vanguard 500 Index Fund (VFIAX) and to my eye Berkshire was tracked better by VFIAX than by CET.

Credit to Jason Zweig of WSJ for the baby Berkshire comment. I don't know if he borrowed it from someone else.

[smitcat]

So I can summarize this as there is no difference.

Well, almost no difference. A BRK.A share can be converted to 1,500 Class B shares, but not the other direction. Class B shares have 1/10,000 of a vote compared to Class A shares. Historically, Class A trades at a price slightly higher than 1,500x Class B but that is not guaranteed.

Thank you - the question above was specifically directed about the advantages (or not) to heirs. There are times where having smaller shares for use with heirs can be advantageous for early gifting and/or in cases where you may want to sell a smaller amount and offset those gains with TLH.

[White Coat Investor]

What is the closest VG/FID/Schwab funds to BRK.B? I really like BRK but am assuming that when Buffet leaves Berkshire, the fund may see a dark period.

I think they have a pretty good succession plan in place and have actually thought about buying shares the day Warren dies because I think a lot of people like you will panic sell that day.

What do you like about BRK that you want a fund to do? Diversification? No dividends? A value approach? Lots of money in insurance? Tell us that and maybe we can help you find an ETF with similar characteristics.

[bgf]

Makes no sense for the long term holders of Berkshire, of which there are many, to sell upon his anticipated death and incur significant tax liability. If you really don’t want to hold Berkshire after he dies then you have made a plan and have been selling down Berkshire shares for years…

Silly to think it’s just going to dump and not recover based on an event we all know is imminent.