Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

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InvestementBear
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Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by InvestementBear »

Hi everyone, I’ve been diving into the concept of passive management and am confused about its definition.

My Understanding:
From what I’ve gathered, passive management usually involves replicating the performance of a specific market index, such as the S&P 500, by investing in the same securities in the same proportions. The goal is to mirror the index's returns rather than attempt to outperform it. For example, an ETF that tracks the S&P 500 by holding the same stocks in the same proportions as the index itself fits this definition.

However, I’ve come across target-date funds and factor-based strategies (e.g., low volatility, dividend growth) which I view as passive as well since they do not involve active buying and selling to outperform the market. These strategies still seem to follow rules-based approaches but don’t necessarily track a specific index directly.

This resulted in me thinking: Any management following a rule-based strategy with minimal active management can qualify as passive.

My Question:
Given that the Bogleheads Wiki defines passive management as tracking an index or portfolio without trying to outperform it, I’m curious:
  • Is it possible to view these strategies as passive, or should they always be categorized differently since they don’t follow the classic definition of index tracking?
  • Based on the answers above how would you define passive management then (unless you say that passive Managment is always about tracking an index)?


Sources:
Bogleheads Wiki Passive Management definition: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Passive_management
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Agitated_Analyst
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Agitated_Analyst »

There are varying opinions. However, passive in my mind is an instrument that follows a market cap weighted index. Factor funds are active. There are many good rules-based factor funds (I invest in a couple), but they cannot be passive because they deviate from market weights. I'll use Vanguard funds as examples. The most truly passive ETF is VT. The most truly passive ETF for the US is VTI. The most truly passive ex-US ETF is VXUS. Anything else, in my opinion, is making a decision and is some form of active.

Target date funds can be mostly passive like Vanguard's. However, even those make a decision on the US/ex-US split. There are many target date funds that are not passive at all.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Gaston »

InvestementBear wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:45 am From what I’ve gathered, passive management usually involves replicating the performance of a specific market index, such as the S&P 500, by investing in the same securities in the same proportions.
Unfortunately, there is no widely agreed definition of "passive". But I will offer one definition that is held by a number of academics (eg, Burton Malkiel, Bill Sharpe) as well as some notable practitioners (eg, Cliff Asness).

For a given market, such as US equities, you are investing passively if you hold every equity, or a reasonable approximation thereof, in proportion to their market cap weights. This is typically accomplished by holding a total market index fund, an S&P 500 index fund or something similar. It's possible that an actively managed fund can be largely passive, but when people say passive, they typically are referring to an index fund or ETF.

Lots of index funds, however, make no attempt to approximate the total market. Instead, they attempt to track a segment of the market, such as small cap stocks, value stocks or technology stocks. Here, the owner of such a product is placing a bet that one segment of the market will outperform the total market. As such, these are index products but not passive products.

Again, there is no crisp definition of "passive". If someone uses the word, and if it's important to the context, it's best to ask what they mean.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by nisiprius »

There are no precise definitions. But in common parlance, yes, "passive" means tracking an index.

Passive investing has become popular and is often considered "good." So, of course, promoters want to stretch the definition to make their product or strategy fit within it, so they attract people who want "passive investments."

Whatever the definition might be, it's unlikely that anybody can adhere to them 100.0000%. So it's a matter of degree, and how close you are is what matters. I haven't yet seen discussions of whether you can be passive without indexing that led anywhere useful.

One advantage of defining it as "index tracking" is that this is a fairly clean definition. Two people can probably agree on whether a fund is or is not doing that. Once you widen it, it's hard to draw any clear boundary.

To take an extreme example, consider an investor who follows a moving average market timing system, who goes entirely into stocks whenever the 50-day moving average crosses above the 200-day moving average, and entirely into cash on the reverse. Suppose he does this perfectly mechanically--even programs a bot to do the trading for him.

Can this be called "passive investing?" Who cares? Moving average market timing is not like buying and holding a total market index fund has, and will not give you the same results. So saying "it's 'passive'" just muddies the waters.

As far as John C. Bogle was concerned,
the original idea of the index fund [was to] own the entire U.S. stock market, own it at low cost, hang on to it forever.
Notice that even the phrase "index tracking" has a problem. The PAWZ ETF, which holds only stocks in pet-care related companies, tracks the FactSet Pet Care Index. Obviously it qualifies as an "index fund." Obviously it qualifies as "passive." Obviously it's not what Bogle meant. It may be as passive as passive can be, it is still not in line with the the Bogleheads investment philosophy.

Things get tricky with e.g. Vanguard's target-date funds, because the contents of the portfolio consists of four or five index funds, but the proportions adjust with age. I wish I could say that the changes are related to the personal circumstances of the investor, and not to market behavior. Unfortunately, that isn't true, because Vanguard has made various changes in composition that appear to be based on active management: increasing the percentage of international stocks, increasing stock allocations across the board around 2006, adding international bonds.

Whether factor investing is "passive" is frequently debated around here. It's part of a larger debate which I'll capsulize as "Dimensional Fund Advisors (DFA) versus Vanguard."

Vanguard seems to have an institutional opinion on this.

Source

Image
What are factor-based funds?

Factor-based funds are a form of actively managed funds. They purposely "tilt" portfolios toward certain stock characteristics like recent momentum, higher quality, or lower stock prices to achieve specific risk and return objectives.
In any case, there's a world of difference between a typical factor portfolio, even one that employs "dynamic allocation," and what my friend, in her seventies, is doing.
It seems unlikely we will do anything with crypto. We just spent about $35,000 on some very safe stuff, Procter and Gamble, JPMorgan Chase, a couple of others. Just a smidgen of activity. We have a Chase brokerage account, and with the mobile app, it's easy and kind of fun, and no fee, to buy and sell.
In the real world, riffing on Supreme Court Justice Potter Steward, I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within the term "passive investing," and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and what my friend is doing is not that.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by sycamore »

There's been discussion over the years about how to classify funds in regards to passive vs indexing vs semi-active, etc. Like the Bogleheads' wiki article on Indexing describes an "index strategy boxes" classification:
Equity and fixed income (bond fund) style boxes give you an idea of risk versus return. The equity style box is based on market capitalization, while the fixed income style box is based on investment grade quality. These investment styles are not enough to cover all the selection criteria for index funds.

Instead of investment styles, index funds are categorized according to the way they select investments, using security selection and security weighting rules. Similar to the style boxes for risk vs. return, a 3 x 3 grid categorizes index fund strategies using selection vs. weighting.

The only thing investment style and index strategy boxes have in common is an easy to understand 3 x 3 grid, designed to help make investment decisions. They are otherwise unrelated.
Image

More info in this old article from Rick Ferri: Indexing in the 21st Century.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Agitated_Analyst »

In the strictest sense (which is how I view this question), look at the equity portion of your portfolio and ask, "Does this deviate from the global market cap weighted portfolio (VT)?" If the answer is yes, then you've made some active decisions. Active decisions are on a spectrum and some are more egregious than others.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by alex_686 »

First, the SEC has a marketing rule. If a fund has the word “index” or a has a index name in it, for example S&P 500, then it is a index fund. The index must be independently run and must prospectively select investable assets. The portfolio manager doesn’t have much discretion in picking assets. For example, if the fund chooses to use sampling the index than the sampling methodology must be stated ahead of time.The portfolio manager can’t pick and choose their favorite stocks.

Second, I would consider any fund that follows a index to be passive. All indexes have filters and tilts and have investment committees that make subjective decisions.

Is a value index a active decision? Well, the portfolio managers must follow the index so I would consider that passive.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by hnd »

To me there is Actively Managed Funds and Actively Managed Portfolios. There are passively managed funds and passively managed portfolios. Your portfolio can be a mix of this.

When it comes to passive investing we are typically thinking of passively managed funds. but most actively manage their portfolios. so what is the difference.

I know a guy who invest in VGT (technology) and VHT (Healthcare). thats it. those are 2 index funds. Is this passive? I'd say he's making actively managed portfolio decisions using passive funds (etfs).

there are also now thousands of indexes it seems. schwab and fidelity have created their own. obviously DFA and avantis create their own in a way but don't call them indexes. just rule based (which is typically what indexes will have).
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by David Jay »

Target Date funds typically combine two goals: Lifecycle investing and indexing.

One typically does not hold the same investments in their 20s and in their 70s.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by firebirdparts »

The fundamental answer is no, but I don't think there's any practical reason to get the right answer.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Agitated_Analyst »

firebirdparts wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:26 am The fundamental answer is no, but I don't think there's any practical reason to get the right answer.
I think the practical reason is a self-awareness issue. When choosing an allocation, investors should probably start with the global-market portfolio (stocks, bonds, gold, etc, etc) for all assets as a portfolio baseline. Any deviations from that portfolio is, essentially, an active decision. The closest thing to this in one fund is probably VSMGX (although it doesn't have TIPs, gold, or commodities). Knowing your active decisions is important from a behavioral standpoint. It doesn't mean that they're incorrect decisions, but all investors should know why they hold what they do so they don't bail on a strategy at the wrong time.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Gaston »

Agitated_Analyst wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:51 am The closest thing to this in one fund is probably VSMGX (although it doesn't have TIPs, gold, or commodities).
VSMGX is a good product. If for some reason you need an ETF rather than mutual fund, perhaps take a look at the iShares AOM ETF. It has a similar "all in one" profile to VSMGX.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by alex_686 »

Agitated_Analyst wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:51 am
firebirdparts wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:26 am The fundamental answer is no, but I don't think there's any practical reason to get the right answer.
I think the practical reason is a self-awareness issue. When choosing an allocation, investors should probably start with the global-market portfolio (stocks, bonds, gold, etc, etc) for all assets as a portfolio baseline. Any deviations from that portfolio is, essentially, an active decision. The closest thing to this in one fund is probably VSMGX (although it doesn't have TIPs, gold, or commodities). Knowing your active decisions is important from a behavioral standpoint. It doesn't mean that they're incorrect decisions, but all investors should know why they hold what they do so they don't bail on a strategy at the wrong time.
VSMGX is a horrid example since it is massive titled. Its Asset Allocation is 60/40 while the market neutral position is 20/80.

I kid - somewhat. Your asset allocation should match your goals, market expectations, and risk tolerances. The market neutral position, be it between equities/bonds or value, size, quality, etc.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Agitated_Analyst »

alex_686 wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:21 pm
Agitated_Analyst wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:51 am

I think the practical reason is a self-awareness issue. When choosing an allocation, investors should probably start with the global-market portfolio (stocks, bonds, gold, etc, etc) for all assets as a portfolio baseline. Any deviations from that portfolio is, essentially, an active decision. The closest thing to this in one fund is probably VSMGX (although it doesn't have TIPs, gold, or commodities). Knowing your active decisions is important from a behavioral standpoint. It doesn't mean that they're incorrect decisions, but all investors should know why they hold what they do so they don't bail on a strategy at the wrong time.
VSMGX is a horrid example since it is massive titled. Its Asset Allocation is 60/40 while the market neutral position is 20/80.

I kid - somewhat. Your asset allocation should match your goals, market expectations, and risk tolerances. The market neutral position, be it between equities/bonds or value, size, quality, etc.
https://portfoliocharts.com/portfolios/ ... portfolio/

https://portfoliocharts.com/2021/01/05/ ... portfolio/

Hardly "horrid".
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by aquinas »

Fidelity has (or used to have) a series of “enhanced index funds.” Kind of an oxymoron. If a fund is “enhanced,” i.e., partly actively managed, it’s really neither passive nor indexed. I was amused to discover the couple of times I checked that the “enhancement” was not working so well. The equivalent non-enhanced index fund was doing better than the “enhanced” one.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by tdgb »

As far as I know there is no exact agreed-upon definition. I understand it the same way I understand the word "passive: accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance".
So, basically, an allocation that doesn't change based on market conditions and that I don't have to "care about" on a regular basis. Most likely it would be index tracking. But I guess an arbitrary single stock allocation (or anything else, really) could fall in my definition as long as I don't change it regularly.

By no means a technical definition, just the way I approach it.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by InvestementBear »

Okay, thanks for all your replies. Given that there is no exact definition, I will settle on a basic definition like this one based on your replies:

Passive management is an investment strategy that tracks a market index or portfolio, most commonly a market weighted one. In a market-weighted index or portfolio, the proportion of each stock in the index or portfolio is based on the stock's market capitalization relative to the total market capitalization of all stocks in the index or portfolio. In both the market capitalization of a stock relative to the total market capitalization of all stocks determines that stock’s percentage influence on the overall performance of that index or portfolio.

The goal is not to outperform but to match the performance of that index or portfolio, minimize investing fees and to avoid the adverse consequences of failing to correctly anticipate the future. In passive management, the AMC is still involved but the role of the fund manager is much more limited. The AMC ensures the fund tracks an index or benchmark and handles the administrative tasks (like legal matters, investor communication, and compliance)
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by nisiprius »

I would add "if the fund prospectus says 'the fund is actively managed,' it is not 'passive.'" I assume that when they say that they are complying with some regulatory definition; it would be interesting to know what it is.

Meanwhile:

Wikipedia:
Passive management (also called passive investing) is an investing strategy that tracks a market-weighted index or portfolio.
Nerdwallet:
Passive investing is a long-term strategy for building wealth by buying securities that mirror stock market indexes and holding them long term.
Wharton Executive Education:
Passive, or index-style investments, buy and hold the stocks or bonds in a market index such as the Standard & Poor’s 500 or the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
Morgan Stanley:
Passive managers simply seek to own all the stocks in a given market index, in the proportion they are held in that index.
Jeremy Siegel, in Stocks for the Long Run 5/E, p. 367:
Many investors have realized that the poor performance of actively managed funds relative to benchmark indexes strongly implies that they would do very well to just equal the market return of one of the broad-based indexes. Thus, the 1990s witnessed an enormous increase in passive investing, the placement of funds whose sole purpose was to match the performance of an index.
Chase Bank:
The goal [of passive investing] is to track – or match – the returns of the suitable benchmark index, not to “beat” it. Typically, this objective is accomplished by investing in index funds. These funds are composed of assets, like stocks and bonds, that are part of the benchmark index.
It's not 100% universal, though. The CFA Institute notes that "passive equity investing and indexing have become nearly synonymous in the investment industry." Nevertheless, they say:
Although they mean different things, passive equity investing and indexing have become nearly synonymous in the investment industry. Indexing refers to strategies intended to replicate the performance of benchmark indexes, such as the S&P 500 Index, the Topix 100, the FTSE 100, and the MSCI All-Country World Index. The main advantages of indexing include low costs, broad diversification, and tax efficiency. Indexing is the purest form of a more general idea: passive investing. Passive investing refers to any rules-based, transparent, and investable strategy that does not involve identifying mispriced individual securities. Unlike indexing, however, passive investing can include investing in a changing set of market segments that are selected by the portfolio manager.
But I say "phooey to that." "Passive investing" is generally understood to mean indexing, period. It only means something else when someone is trying to stretch the definition to include a non-indexed product or strategy they are trying to sell.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by nisiprius »

alex_686 wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:29 am First, the SEC has a marketing rule. If a fund has the word “index” or a has a index name in it, for example S&P 500, then it is a index fund. The index must be independently run and must prospectively select investable assets. The portfolio manager doesn’t have much discretion in picking assets. For example, if the fund chooses to use sampling the index than the sampling methodology must be stated ahead of time.The portfolio manager can’t pick and choose their favorite stocks....
Hey, Alex, how does that apply to ETFs? Within Vanguard's product line, when ETFs are share classes of an index mutual fund, the mutual funds contain the word "index," but the ETFs don't. Fund names from Vanguard's website. My underlining:

VTSAX Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares
VTI Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF

VBTLX Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares
BND Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF

VITAX Vanguard Information Technology Index Fund Admiral Shares
VGT Vanguard Information Technology ETF

Is this a frozen holdover from the decades when all ETFs were intrinsically index ETFs, so that went without saying? In these days of active ETFs, how is an investor supposed to quickly tell index and active ETFs apart? If index ETFs can't say "index" in their name, shouldn't active ETFs be required to have the word "active" to their name?
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Agitated_Analyst »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:39 am But I say "phooey to that." "Passive investing" is generally understood to mean indexing, period. It only means something else when someone is trying to stretch the definition to include a non-indexed product or strategy they are trying to sell.
Would it be fair to say that passive investing requires an index but not all indexes are passive? I guess I just have a more strict view on this. For instance, I don't really view VBR as a passive investment. An investor is making an active decision by investing in it and tilting away from the total market. Like I said above, I see it as a spectrum. The VBR example I gave would be low on the spectrum, but paying a hedge fund 2 and 20 to actively manage would be high. Under my definition, anything not VT is at least somewhat active, but maybe that's too strict.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by maj »

Is a dividend fund based on an index an active 'factor' fund? For example: VYM Vanguard High Dividend Yield.

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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by alluringreality »

InvestementBear wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:45 amBased on the answers above how would you define passive management then (unless you say that passive Managment is always about tracking an index)?
Personally I tend to agree with terms as often defined in the following glossary, although I can understand alternate definitions. For example buy-and-hold was defined as passive strategy there. Using such a passive definition, buying a large number of stocks at equal weight fundamentally amounts to one diversification strategy. Across time relative returns of stocks tends to skew, meaning that a few often outperform others, so with considerable holding periods often the question becomes if it makes sense to choose active changes to the original position to again diversify. I may take practical positions, where definitions are not necessarily overly important, and generally I tend to estimate that individual preferences ultimately guide personal classification for items such as target-date funds and factor-based investing. To me both of those concepts are more consistent with passive portfolio strategy than active portfolio strategy, using the following outlines, and I can understand possible lines of disagreement such as tracking an index.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by alex_686 »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:52 am Is this a frozen holdover from the decades when all ETFs were intrinsically index ETFs, so that went without saying?
shouldn't active ETFs be required to have the word "active" to their name?
I am not sure.
nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:52 am In these days of active ETFs, how is an investor supposed to quickly tell index and active ETFs apart? If index ETFs can't say "index" in their name, shouldn't active ETFs be required to have the word "active" to their name?
There are plenty of ETFs that have indexes in their name. VOO is Vanguard S&P 500 ETF. So it has the index in the title. Oddly, I can't think of any ETFs that have index in their title. Not sure why. I can't think of any legal reason why it would be or not be required. I suspect that they are trying to limit the characters in the name rather than anything else.

I can say that funds like putting the index in its name. They pay good money to license the index and it is a easy handle.
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by sycamore »

alex_686 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:43 am
nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:52 am Is this a frozen holdover from the decades when all ETFs were intrinsically index ETFs, so that went without saying?
shouldn't active ETFs be required to have the word "active" to their name?
I am not sure.
nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:52 am In these days of active ETFs, how is an investor supposed to quickly tell index and active ETFs apart? If index ETFs can't say "index" in their name, shouldn't active ETFs be required to have the word "active" to their name?
There are plenty of ETFs that have indexes in their name. VOO is Vanguard S&P 500 ETF. So it has the index in the title. Oddly, I can't think of any ETFs that have index in their title. Not sure why. I can't think of any legal reason why it would be or not be required. I suspect that they are trying to limit the characters in the name rather than anything else.

I can say that funds like putting the index in its name. They pay good money to license the index and it is a easy handle.
(I have no idea about this, just guessing.)

Maybe the question about where we should find the word "index" is not in the "investable" fund's name per se.
Rather look to the entity name that the fund is a share class of?

E.g., "Vanguard S&P 500 ETF" is a share class of "Vanguard 500 Index Fund". And, voila, there's the word "index".

This presumably is unique to Vanguard with its multi-share class offerings?
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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by Rick Ferri »

Passive is not just about index funds.

Passive investing means capturing your fair share of market returns, whichever markets you're invested in.

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Re: Clarification on Passive Management: Is it Strictly Limited to Index Tracking?

Post by prioritarian »

David Jay wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 9:09 am Target Date funds typically combine two goals: Lifecycle investing and indexing.
Many target date funds are actively managed or have active components (and some even have components with synthetic positions). Moreover, because target date funds change over time*, they do not "stay the course" and are not the simple index funds that the "Bogleheads investment strategy wiki page recommends.

* As I recall Vanguard has made very significant "active" changes to their target date fund allocationsd so even in the case of Vanguard it's hard not view these funds as actively managed.
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