Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
User avatar
Topic Author
TomP10
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:13 am

Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by TomP10 »

Something that many of us knew was coming... it was just a matter of when.

Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform
Vanguard Group plans to close its legacy mutual fund platform for retail investors by year-end 2025, a move that one Vanguard watcher considers both unsurprising and, for many investors, unwelcome.

The asset manager has announced on its website that it's "upgrading" accounts on the old platform to Vanguard brokerage accounts and will retire access on the legacy service by the end of next year.
"It is remarkable how much long term advantage people like us have gotten by trying to be consistently not stupid, instead of trying to be very intelligent." -- Charlie Munger
jebmke
Posts: 29187
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by jebmke »

yes; they have been signaling this for over a decade. Surprised they didn't get better organized and do a better comm plan to get it done earlier.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
User avatar
Feldman
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun May 19, 2024 12:46 pm
Location: . . . From Across The Hall!

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Feldman »

Good to see.
User avatar
Gaston
Posts: 1495
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:12 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Gaston »

Feldman wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:39 pm Good to see.
+1.
“My opinions are just that - opinions.”
User avatar
sycamore
Posts: 7103
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by sycamore »

TomP10 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:24 pm Something that many of us knew was coming... it was just a matter of when.

Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform
Vanguard Group plans to close its legacy mutual fund platform for retail investors by year-end 2025, a move that one Vanguard watcher considers both unsurprising and, for many investors, unwelcome.

The asset manager has announced on its website that it's "upgrading" accounts on the old platform to Vanguard brokerage accounts and will retire access on the legacy service by the end of next year.
IMO the key phrase is "for retail investors". Many parts of the mutual fund platform (hardware, software, process & procedures) will continue to exist in order for Vanguard mutual funds to service their non-retail accounts. Vanguard will continue to incur the fixed costs of the platform, but at least the number of accounts that need to be serviced will be much smaller than in years past. Presumably the non-retail accounts won't be costly to service in the first place as the non-retail customers (brokerages, 401k plans, etc.) don't need as much hand-holding as some retail accounts.
alex_686
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by alex_686 »

sycamore wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:34 pm
TomP10 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:24 pm Something that many of us knew was coming... it was just a matter of when.

Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform

IMO the key phrase is "for retail investors". Many parts of the mutual fund platform (hardware, software, process & procedures) will continue to exist in order for Vanguard mutual funds to service their non-retail accounts. Vanguard will continue to incur the fixed costs of the platform, but at least the number of accounts that need to be serviced will be much smaller than in years past. Presumably the non-retail accounts won't be costly to service in the first place as the non-retail customers (brokerages, 401k plans, etc.) don't need as much hand-holding as some retail accounts.
The real benefit won’t cone from the hand holding.

There will be the lower cost of running the front end (attractive easy to secure website) to the more locked down institutional format.

Then there is going to be the massive reduction in compliance reporting. Retail mutual fund reporting requirements are different, and oddly sometimes higher, then it is for brokerage clients.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 15062
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by watchnerd »

Yay!

Looking forward to reduced ER now that they don't have to maintain two different front ends.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 78% / 17% / 5% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Hyperchicken
Posts: 2235
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:33 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Hyperchicken »

It's like watching 'truck hitting pole' meme gif.
Makefile
Posts: 2932
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:03 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Makefile »

The article mentions someone being contacted by Vanguard because they still hold physical shares and need to deliver them. I assume they are referring to a certificate for shares in one of the mutual funds.

Anyone know when it stopped being possible to own certificate shares in the Vanguard funds? Could those shares even predate Vanguard itself (i.e., Wellington or one of the other funds already around at its launch)?
jebmke
Posts: 29187
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by jebmke »

alex_686 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:23 pm
sycamore wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:34 pm

IMO the key phrase is "for retail investors". Many parts of the mutual fund platform (hardware, software, process & procedures) will continue to exist in order for Vanguard mutual funds to service their non-retail accounts. Vanguard will continue to incur the fixed costs of the platform, but at least the number of accounts that need to be serviced will be much smaller than in years past. Presumably the non-retail accounts won't be costly to service in the first place as the non-retail customers (brokerages, 401k plans, etc.) don't need as much hand-holding as some retail accounts.
The real benefit won’t cone from the hand holding.

There will be the lower cost of running the front end (attractive easy to secure website) to the more locked down institutional format.

Then there is going to be the massive reduction in compliance reporting. Retail mutual fund reporting requirements are different, and oddly sometimes higher, then it is for brokerage clients.
Not familiar with your industry but with mine there was a large cost of CS productivity (training and operations) from having to deal with customers and then two inside systems to manage and find information.


Agree on compliance. Can be a very big deal even in non-financial industries.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
User avatar
wwhan
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: CA

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by wwhan »

It is amazing it took them so long. Vanguard pushed us into brokerage accounts 10 years ago, with urgent nagging notices.
"Everything in Moderation, including Moderation"
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 15062
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by watchnerd »

wwhan wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:36 pm It is amazing it took them so long. Vanguard pushed us into brokerage accounts 10 years ago, with urgent nagging notices.
I'm sure we'll still get people who will complain about what bad customer service this ultimatum is.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 78% / 17% / 5% || LMP: TIPS ladder
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

alex_686 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:23 pm
sycamore wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:34 pm

IMO the key phrase is "for retail investors". Many parts of the mutual fund platform (hardware, software, process & procedures) will continue to exist in order for Vanguard mutual funds to service their non-retail accounts. Vanguard will continue to incur the fixed costs of the platform, but at least the number of accounts that need to be serviced will be much smaller than in years past. Presumably the non-retail accounts won't be costly to service in the first place as the non-retail customers (brokerages, 401k plans, etc.) don't need as much hand-holding as some retail accounts.
The real benefit won’t cone from the hand holding.

There will be the lower cost of running the front end (attractive easy to secure website) to the more locked down institutional format.

Then there is going to be the massive reduction in compliance reporting. Retail mutual fund reporting requirements are different, and oddly sometimes higher, then it is for brokerage clients.
For those who buy Vanguard open end funds at ANY brokers (including their own brokerage), Vanguard will still need to run their backend shareholder accounting system to track ownership in one place. So only the web front end UI is retired, not the backend.

And I dont understand how they can legally open a brokerage acct for anyone without their permission and signatures where they gather the various compliance mandated data for new customer accts.

I transitioned a while ago when I retired from my fund manager employer who for years prevented me from transitioning at Vanguard (was not a directed broker until recently). Had they opened an acct without my permission, I would have been in violation of compliance rules, and if any ramifications would have sued them to compensate for my losses.
JoeNJ28
Posts: 748
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by JoeNJ28 »

watchnerd wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:42 pm
wwhan wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:36 pm It is amazing it took them so long. Vanguard pushed us into brokerage accounts 10 years ago, with urgent nagging notices.
I'm sure we'll still get people who will complain about what bad customer service this ultimatum is.
Safest bet in the world right there
User avatar
wwhan
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: CA

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by wwhan »

No matter how gently or forceful Vanguard nudges people to move to the brokerage, some will be stubborn, refuse to move and need to evicted.

Having a Brokerage account is no big deal, but one needs to learn that things operate slightly differently. One would think that if the customer survived all the Vanguard website changes (for the worse) over the last few years they could handle the change to a brokerage.

Can vanguard force transition to brokerage platform?: viewtopic.php?p=7922815&hilit=forced+to ... e#p7922815
Last edited by wwhan on Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything in Moderation, including Moderation"
Geologist
Posts: 3431
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:35 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Geologist »

beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:06 pm
alex_686 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:23 pm

The real benefit won’t cone from the hand holding.

There will be the lower cost of running the front end (attractive easy to secure website) to the more locked down institutional format.

Then there is going to be the massive reduction in compliance reporting. Retail mutual fund reporting requirements are different, and oddly sometimes higher, then it is for brokerage clients.
For those who buy Vanguard open end funds at ANY brokers (including their own brokerage), Vanguard will still need to run their backend shareholder accounting system to track ownership in one place. So only the web front end UI is retired, not the backend.

Is this necessarily true? According to the SAI, the largest holder of VTSAX Admiral shares is Charles Schwab (almost 6%) and Fidelity Brokerage’s clearing firm (National Financial Services) is right behind (5%). Similar percentages hold true for most of Vanguard’s index funds. So I think it likely Vanguard is not doing any shareholder accounting for VTSAX and other index shares held by these large brokerages: the shares are in street name.
rkhusky
Posts: 19753
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by rkhusky »

beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:06 pm
alex_686 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:23 pm

The real benefit won’t cone from the hand holding.

There will be the lower cost of running the front end (attractive easy to secure website) to the more locked down institutional format.

Then there is going to be the massive reduction in compliance reporting. Retail mutual fund reporting requirements are different, and oddly sometimes higher, then it is for brokerage clients.
For those who buy Vanguard open end funds at ANY brokers (including their own brokerage), Vanguard will still need to run their backend shareholder accounting system to track ownership in one place. So only the web front end UI is retired, not the backend.

And I dont understand how they can legally open a brokerage acct for anyone without their permission and signatures where they gather the various compliance mandated data for new customer accts.

I transitioned a while ago when I retired from my fund manager employer who for years prevented me from transitioning at Vanguard (was not a directed broker until recently). Had they opened an acct without my permission, I would have been in violation of compliance rules, and if any ramifications would have sued them to compensate for my losses.
I never signed some of the brokerage account forms when I first got a brokerage account. Vanguard nagged me about it for a couple years every time I logged in, but eventually gave up. So, I don’t know if I can currently buy stocks or ETF’s. I don’t remember what I signed when I transitioned my other accounts a few years ago.
User avatar
Nate79
Posts: 9573
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Nate79 »

But but but they can't force me!
Vanguard: Here's your sign.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

Geologist wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:27 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:06 pm

For those who buy Vanguard open end funds at ANY brokers (including their own brokerage), Vanguard will still need to run their backend shareholder accounting system to track ownership in one place. So only the web front end UI is retired, not the backend.

Is this necessarily true? According to the SAI, the largest holder of VTSAX Admiral shares is Charles Schwab (almost 6%) and Fidelity Brokerage’s clearing firm (National Financial Services) is right behind (5%). Similar percentages hold true for most of Vanguard’s index funds. So I think it likely Vanguard is not doing any shareholder accounting for VTSAX and other index shares held by these large brokerages: the shares are in street name.
In that case Schwab is the customer, but still a customer like any that must have SOMEPLACE for the fund transfer agent to track. I doubt Vanguard will do that on excel. There are many brokerage firms, 401ks and other entities that will hold Vanguard funds. One great example, Target and LifeStrategy funds own shares, the legal entity that is the Target Fund is a customer/owner of Vanguard mutual funds.
Geologist
Posts: 3431
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:35 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Geologist »

beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:59 pm
Geologist wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:27 pm

Is this necessarily true? According to the SAI, the largest holder of VTSAX Admiral shares is Charles Schwab (almost 6%) and Fidelity Brokerage’s clearing firm (National Financial Services) is right behind (5%). Similar percentages hold true for most of Vanguard’s index funds. So I think it likely Vanguard is not doing any shareholder accounting for VTSAX and other index shares held by these large brokerages: the shares are in street name.
In that case Schwab is the customer, but still a customer like any that must have SOMEPLACE for the fund transfer agent to track. I doubt Vanguard will do that on excel. There are many brokerage firms, 401ks and other entities that will hold Vanguard funds. One great example, Target and LifeStrategy funds own shares, the legal entity that is the Target Fund is a customer/owner of Vanguard mutual funds.
First, the Investment Company Institute confirms my supposition (https://www.ici.org/doc-server/pdf%3A04fb_ch4.pdf) "The fund supermarket holds a single account with each fund and maintains shareholder transaction records for the mutual fund." (p. 51 as numbered, p. 7 of the pdf)

Second, what you say is not entirely true. The SAI also shows that National Financial Services is the account holder of record for 10% of the Institutional Shares of VTSAX, so Fidelity is handling accounts for all the 401(k)s at Fidelity (and Schwab holds 6%) So the upshot of all this is that Vanguard only has to maintain a few dozen accounts, not thousands/millions. This is not remotely the same level of accounting complexity as maintaining accounts for all the individual account holders.

You undermined your argument from the start by arguing that Vanguard has to maintain record for all the shareholders at other brokerages; they don't.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

Geologist wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:12 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:59 pm

In that case Schwab is the customer, but still a customer like any that must have SOMEPLACE for the fund transfer agent to track. I doubt Vanguard will do that on excel. There are many brokerage firms, 401ks and other entities that will hold Vanguard funds. One great example, Target and LifeStrategy funds own shares, the legal entity that is the Target Fund is a customer/owner of Vanguard mutual funds.
First, the Investment Company Institute confirms my supposition (https://www.ici.org/doc-server/pdf%3A04fb_ch4.pdf) "The fund supermarket holds a single account with each fund and maintains shareholder transaction records for the mutual fund." (p. 51 as numbered, p. 7 of the pdf)

Second, what you say is not entirely true. The SAI also shows that National Financial Services is the account holder of record for 10% of the Institutional Shares of VTSAX, so Fidelity is handling accounts for all the 401(k)s at Fidelity (and Schwab holds 6%) So the upshot of all this is that Vanguard only has to maintain a few dozen accounts, not thousands/millions. This is not remotely the same level of accounting complexity as maintaining accounts for all the individual account holders.

You undermined your argument from the start by arguing that Vanguard has to maintain record for all the shareholders at other brokerages; they don't.
I NEVER SAID that Vanguard must track other brokerage client holdings. That is your incorrect interpretation of what I actually said.

Legally each fund, stock, etf must have a transfer agency to track all shareholders. Fidelity and Schwab are 2 of them. Does not matter of there are 2 or 2,000 or 2,000,000 shareholders. They will NOT use excel to do that. And there are many brokers, and other non-retail holders.

Vanguard has many funds, some ONLY AVAILABLE TO INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS. Such investors do not open a retail acct at Vanguard on their website, but there is a backend to record such ownership.

My source, almost 40 years working in IT at a few large and smaller mutual fund managers and brokerages, and sometimes specifically on shareholder record keeping systems.

Here is a site showing non-retail holders of one fund.
https://fintel.io/so/us/vtsax

Vanguard will have to either keep their current backend systems or build/buy a new one that might be cheaper in the long run but short term costs to implement OR outsource what was once their main business (shareholder recordkeeping). Outsourcing small volumes is expensive, there are minimum costs.
ee_guy
Posts: 416
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by ee_guy »

The title "Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025" is not completely correct and not a statement from Vanguard. For a set of customers that cannot transition after 2025, the account will be maintained but customers cannot add to the fund.
User avatar
Random Musings
Posts: 7044
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Random Musings »

Not as many twists and turns compared to Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown each fall (she always didn't); Vanguard still needs a few more decades to get to that point. But they're trying.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

ee_guy wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:15 pm The title "Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025" is not completely correct and not a statement from Vanguard. For a set of customers that cannot transition after 2025, the account will be maintained but customers cannot add to the fund.
That makes more sense for some retail customers.

For institutional customers it is an entirely different situation.
User avatar
Nate79
Posts: 9573
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Nate79 »

ee_guy wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:15 pm The title "Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025" is not completely correct and not a statement from Vanguard. For a set of customers that cannot transition after 2025, the account will be maintained but customers cannot add to the fund.
What is your source that some customers will not be transitioned and which customers cannot transition?
exodusNH
Posts: 11405
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by exodusNH »

beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:06 pm And I dont understand how they can legally open a brokerage acct for anyone without their permission and signatures where they gather the various compliance mandated data for new customer accts.
In another thread, it was mentioned or implied that Vanguard would put you in a restricted brokerage account, where you can either sign the paperwork to get a fully-fledged account or transfer to someone else.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

Nate79 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:53 pm
ee_guy wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:15 pm The title "Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025" is not completely correct and not a statement from Vanguard. For a set of customers that cannot transition after 2025, the account will be maintained but customers cannot add to the fund.
What is your source that some customers will not be transitioned and which customers cannot transition?
Many brokerage, mutual fund and bank employees have restrictions on which brokers they can have an account. My long time fund management employer did NOT allow Vanguard as your broker until recently. One could lose their job for violation.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

exodusNH wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:16 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:06 pm And I dont understand how they can legally open a brokerage acct for anyone without their permission and signatures where they gather the various compliance mandated data for new customer accts.
In another thread, it was mentioned or implied that Vanguard would put you in a restricted brokerage account, where you can either sign the paperwork to get a fully-fledged account or transfer to someone else.
Still puts brokerage employees in a bind having to answer “do you have any other brokerage accounts”. There is no room for nuance of restricted accts. People have to acat fast before being asked as occurs regularly. And if the only broker allowed is your employer, they most certainly will find out when you request acats.
jebmke
Posts: 29187
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by jebmke »

ee_guy wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:15 pm The title "Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025" is not completely correct and not a statement from Vanguard. For a set of customers that cannot transition after 2025, the account will be maintained but customers cannot add to the fund.
Can be stored on a disk. Ive had to do this with legacy general ledgers in some countries for compliance. Essentially frozen database in a closet.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
User avatar
Nate79
Posts: 9573
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Nate79 »

beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:28 pm
Nate79 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:53 pm

What is your source that some customers will not be transitioned and which customers cannot transition?
Many brokerage, mutual fund and bank employees have restrictions on which brokers they can have an account. My long time fund management employer did NOT allow Vanguard as your broker until recently. One could lose their job for violation.
I don't see how this is Vanguards problem. They are giving the individual way more than sufficient notice to move or be transitioned. If transitioning to brokerage puts their employment at risk they should move to somewhere that is allowed. The thing is they don't WANT to do it so they keep resisting. So this is not a "cannot" but a "don't want to."

I guess Vanguard could liquidate instead of forcing a transition.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

Nate79 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:55 am
beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:28 pm

Many brokerage, mutual fund and bank employees have restrictions on which brokers they can have an account. My long time fund management employer did NOT allow Vanguard as your broker until recently. One could lose their job for violation.
I don't see how this is Vanguards problem. They are giving the individual way more than sufficient notice to move or be transitioned. If transitioning to brokerage puts their employment at risk they should move to somewhere that is allowed. The thing is they don't WANT to do it so they keep resisting. So this is not a "cannot" but a "don't want to."

I guess Vanguard could liquidate instead of forcing a transition.
Your employer picks a list of brokerages.
As you well know, not all brokerages allow all funds to be transfered in and/or no further purchases. There are still some Vanguard funds with no ETF equivalent. So this means some would be forced to liquidate some of their holdings, possibly with tax impact.

Call it what you want, a question was asked wanting to know who is impacted. There may be others, but this is a non trivial number of people. Many begged their employers to allow Vanguard as a broker to avoid having to liquidate unique Vanguard products.

There is also an invasion of privacy in having ANY broker, even if Vanguard is allowed as your broker. All trades and holdings are reported to employers of these fin svcs employees affected. And they must ask for permission to trade many products such as ETFs. Frankly had they forced me, I would have not only left Vanguard fund products, I would have told the many I advise to avoid Vanguard funds for poor treatment of customers. But they did give many years for this to be worked out. My employer relented and I retired avoiding any further restrictions. Had that not happened, Vanguard would have lost a great deal of assets. I would NOT hold their funds at another broker even those feasible, after poor treatment.

And if you think Vanguard shouldn’t care, then why shouldn’t they just raise the er on funds, keep adding brokerage fees, etc ? They were supposed to make investing accessible and affordable. Guess you think it ok to abandon that mission ?
prd1982
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by prd1982 »

beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:14 am
As you well know, not all brokerages allow all funds to be transfered in and/or no further purchases. There are still some Vanguard funds with no ETF equivalent. So this means some would be forced to liquidate some of their holdings, possibly with tax impact.
Could you leave these funds without an ETF equivalent in VG in the VG unmigrated mutual fund account? You would not be able to trade. Would the employer accept that?
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

prd1982 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:39 am
beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:14 am
As you well know, not all brokerages allow all funds to be transfered in and/or no further purchases. There are still some Vanguard funds with no ETF equivalent. So this means some would be forced to liquidate some of their holdings, possibly with tax impact.
Could you leave these funds without an ETF equivalent in VG in the VG unmigrated mutual fund account? You would not be able to trade. Would the employer accept that?
Unmigrated is what the employers allow on an unrestricted basis. Inability to trade stocks and market time is what they accept as activity that does not need to be monitored or permissioned. You are outsourcing investment decisions to the fund manager in such case, at least in theory. The frequent trading rules and inability to trade anything frequently on possible inside information is the key. Once moving to brokerage I had to ask “may I buy more VTI” to my employer, wait for permission, then have the result reported to employer, then quarterly report my holdings and confirm my list of brokerage accts. None of that is necessary in an acct that can hold only open end mutual funds, whether or not I can buy more does not matter to financial services employers. So yes that would have been fine if you are ok having Vanguard restrict all future purchases. Would still have to open an acct somewhere else and have all the same issues, just with a smaller subset of assets and losing ability to rebalance in/out of some mutual-fund only (non etf) products. Munis are best done outside ETFs, state specific ones never existed until recently when Vanguard added CA, but not other high tax states. And muni ETFs have a tax quirk that does not exist for open end funds. Losing the ability to rebalance in/out of these funds would be highly restrictive, but at least temporarily delays tax consequences until one is able to transition (like upon change of employer/retirement).
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

For the record, I personally am very happy with how Vanguard handled this. Gradually and with understanding to smooth out issues for clients.

1) As an IT person of course I support simplifying the front end to avoid redundant functionality.

2) As a customer, with the compliance reporting and restriction from using Vanguard as broker, they let me open new fund-only accts on paper after they removed online ability to do so. They understood the problem and made a temporary solution.

3) They must have worked with my employer and probably others. A broker is required by large financial services employers to have electronic transmission of trades, statement data etc. At some point my employer and Vanguard started to work together to achieve that automation and get Vanguard on our list. Same for Fidelity, which was added more recently. Historically only discount brokers allowed at my firm were Schwab and etrade. I opened an acct at etrade for the limited stock and etf trades I wanted to do because I simply could not do it at Vanguard. Once Vanguard worked with my employer and I was nearing retirement, I decided to close out Etrade acct and use Vanguard as my primary broker.

The gradual transition with effort to make it work for me kept me a Vanguard customer after many years there. So my posts are NOT complaints about Vanguard, they did the right things IMO, but many do not understand the complexity of this industry and questioned why this should or should not be done sooner or at all. It is a way to save SOME costs, but a hasty transition would have lost some very good customers like me. They didn’t.
exodusNH
Posts: 11405
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by exodusNH »

beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:31 pm
exodusNH wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:16 pm

In another thread, it was mentioned or implied that Vanguard would put you in a restricted brokerage account, where you can either sign the paperwork to get a fully-fledged account or transfer to someone else.
Still puts brokerage employees in a bind having to answer “do you have any other brokerage accounts”. There is no room for nuance of restricted accts. People have to acat fast before being asked as occurs regularly. And if the only broker allowed is your employer, they most certainly will find out when you request acats.
I understand why that's a burden -- I would also not appreciate the employer insight into my financial life -- but being forced to maintain a legacy system for a small percentage of customers just isn't worth it.

Even if you had $10,000,000 of Vanguard assets, Vanguard manages $7,000,000,000,000. $10M to $7T is the same scale as $1 to $700,000.

All business have to make their own decisions as to which customers are profitable. My company has fired customers before. And we've been fired as customers.

You can't be everything to everyone.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

exodusNH wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:23 am
beyou wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:31 pm

Still puts brokerage employees in a bind having to answer “do you have any other brokerage accounts”. There is no room for nuance of restricted accts. People have to acat fast before being asked as occurs regularly. And if the only broker allowed is your employer, they most certainly will find out when you request acats.
I understand why that's a burden -- I would also not appreciate the employer insight into my financial life -- but being forced to maintain a legacy system for a small percentage of customers just isn't worth it.

Even if you had $10,000,000 of Vanguard assets, Vanguard manages $7,000,000,000,000. $10M to $7T is the same scale as $1 to $700,000.

All business have to make their own decisions as to which customers are profitable. My company has fired customers before. And we've been fired as customers.

You can't be everything to everyone.
They are getting rid of their original core business.
Vanguard originally did the transfer agent back office work for Wellington that actually managed the funds. This is like Ford deciding no more cars (well maybe no more ICE cars, but many customers will only buy ICE cars today if they do not have access to high speed chargers). Not a matter of if products should be phased out but when.

And as I said above wont be as much cost savings as one would think. Back end does not go away, only the front end. Read above, no need to discuss again.
ee_guy
Posts: 416
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by ee_guy »

Nate79 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:53 pm
ee_guy wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:15 pm The title "Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025" is not completely correct and not a statement from Vanguard. For a set of customers that cannot transition after 2025, the account will be maintained but customers cannot add to the fund.
What is your source that some customers will not be transitioned and which customers cannot transition?
The source is a letter from Vanguard for a custodial account. I think Vanguard could have handle the situation better. Before 2000, I opened a mutual style account at Fidelity with one mutual fund. When Fidelity moved to a brokerage account, the mutual fund just appeared in the brokerage account under with the old mutual style account number with no work on my part. I wonder why Vanguard didn't use a similar approach - perhaps cost?.
exodusNH
Posts: 11405
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by exodusNH »

beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:15 am
exodusNH wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:23 am

I understand why that's a burden -- I would also not appreciate the employer insight into my financial life -- but being forced to maintain a legacy system for a small percentage of customers just isn't worth it.

Even if you had $10,000,000 of Vanguard assets, Vanguard manages $7,000,000,000,000. $10M to $7T is the same scale as $1 to $700,000.

All business have to make their own decisions as to which customers are profitable. My company has fired customers before. And we've been fired as customers.

You can't be everything to everyone.
They are getting rid of their original core business.
Vanguard originally did the transfer agent back office work for Wellington that actually managed the funds. This is like Ford deciding no more cars (well maybe no more ICE cars, but many customers will only buy ICE cars today if they do not have access to high speed chargers). Not a matter of if products should be phased out but when.

And as I said above wont be as much cost savings as one would think. Back end does not go away, only the front end. Read above, no need to discuss again.
A monster database is much cheaper to run than a complicated web interface. The latter needs constant updates to keep up with current standards and security patches.

Also see alex_686's comments about compliance and reporting.

Companies move on. It's safe to say that Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company long ago abandoned its mines.
stan1
Posts: 15559
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by stan1 »

beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:14 am
There is also an invasion of privacy in having ANY broker, even if Vanguard is allowed as your broker. All trades and holdings are reported to employers of these fin svcs employees affected. And they must ask for permission to trade many products such as ETFs. Frankly had they forced me, I would have not only left Vanguard fund products, I would have told the many I advise to avoid Vanguard funds for poor treatment of customers. But they did give many years for this to be worked out. My employer relented and I retired avoiding any further restrictions. Had that not happened, Vanguard would have lost a great deal of assets. I would NOT hold their funds at another broker even those feasible, after poor treatment.

And if you think Vanguard shouldn’t care, then why shouldn’t they just raise the er on funds, keep adding brokerage fees, etc ? They were supposed to make investing accessible and affordable. Guess you think it ok to abandon that mission ?
Invasion of privacy? People who feel that way can quit their generally high paying financial services industry jobs if they want. Sheesh. Many of us have invasive requirements to obtain and keep our jobs: drug tests, background investigations, non-disclosure and non-compete agreements, conflict of interest disclosures, personal relationships with other employee disclosures. US Government still does polygraphs for their most sensitive positions and the people in those jobs are definitely not compensated fully for their patriotic duty and sacrifice.

I think Vanguard is on the right track to eliminate expensive services that are used by a small percentage of their customers, that's how they make investing accessible and affordable to most people. We still have people who feel they should be entitled to free paper statements sent to them by US mail and are unwilling to print and hole punch their own paperwork.
Makefile
Posts: 2932
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:03 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by Makefile »

beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:15 am And as I said above wont be as much cost savings as one would think. Back end does not go away, only the front end. Read above, no need to discuss again.
Perhaps it's not so much about saving money as getting the housecleaning that needs done before the unadvised brokerage clients can go the way of the variable annuity and individual 401(k) accounts :twisted:
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

stan1 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:19 pm
beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:14 am
There is also an invasion of privacy in having ANY broker, even if Vanguard is allowed as your broker. All trades and holdings are reported to employers of these fin svcs employees affected. And they must ask for permission to trade many products such as ETFs. Frankly had they forced me, I would have not only left Vanguard fund products, I would have told the many I advise to avoid Vanguard funds for poor treatment of customers. But they did give many years for this to be worked out. My employer relented and I retired avoiding any further restrictions. Had that not happened, Vanguard would have lost a great deal of assets. I would NOT hold their funds at another broker even those feasible, after poor treatment.

And if you think Vanguard shouldn’t care, then why shouldn’t they just raise the er on funds, keep adding brokerage fees, etc ? They were supposed to make investing accessible and affordable. Guess you think it ok to abandon that mission ?
Invasion of privacy? People who feel that way can quit their generally high paying financial services industry jobs if they want. Sheesh. Many of us have invasive requirements to obtain and keep our jobs: drug tests, background investigations, non-disclosure and non-compete agreements, conflict of interest disclosures, personal relationships with other employee disclosures. US Government still does polygraphs for their most sensitive positions and the people in those jobs are definitely not compensated fully for their patriotic duty and sacrifice.

I think Vanguard is on the right track to eliminate expensive services that are used by a small percentage of their customers, that's how they make investing accessible and affordable to most people. We still have people who feel they should be entitled to free paper statements sent to them by US mail and are unwilling to print and hole punch their own paperwork.
Yes it is an invasion of privacy. You should only have to disclose info relevant to your job. Mutual funds are deemed NOT relevant to insider trading but by forcing them to be held in a brokerage acct makes them reported. Besides, most other fund managers still offer this service. In fact the legacy platform of mutual funds is the ONLY way one can buy directly from BlackRock. Fidelity still has fund-only accts. Vanguard cost cutting is ridiculous when it results in loss of what is really industry standard service capability.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 15062
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by watchnerd »

beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:40 pm
stan1 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:19 pm

Invasion of privacy? People who feel that way can quit their generally high paying financial services industry jobs if they want. Sheesh. Many of us have invasive requirements to obtain and keep our jobs: drug tests, background investigations, non-disclosure and non-compete agreements, conflict of interest disclosures, personal relationships with other employee disclosures. US Government still does polygraphs for their most sensitive positions and the people in those jobs are definitely not compensated fully for their patriotic duty and sacrifice.

I think Vanguard is on the right track to eliminate expensive services that are used by a small percentage of their customers, that's how they make investing accessible and affordable to most people. We still have people who feel they should be entitled to free paper statements sent to them by US mail and are unwilling to print and hole punch their own paperwork.
Yes it is an invasion of privacy. You should only have to disclose info relevant to your job. Mutual funds are deemed NOT relevant to insider trading but by forcing them to be held in a brokerage acct makes them reported. Besides, most other fund managers still offer this service. In fact the legacy platform of mutual funds is the ONLY way one can buy directly from BlackRock. Fidelity still has fund-only accts. Vanguard cost cutting is ridiculous when it results in loss of what is really industry standard service capability.
If this requirement is so important to you (it's not to me), sounds like you should switch platforms and/or funds.

In the mean time, I'm all for lower costs.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 78% / 17% / 5% || LMP: TIPS ladder
jebmke
Posts: 29187
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by jebmke »

watchnerd wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:22 am
beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:40 pm

Yes it is an invasion of privacy. You should only have to disclose info relevant to your job. Mutual funds are deemed NOT relevant to insider trading but by forcing them to be held in a brokerage acct makes them reported. Besides, most other fund managers still offer this service. In fact the legacy platform of mutual funds is the ONLY way one can buy directly from BlackRock. Fidelity still has fund-only accts. Vanguard cost cutting is ridiculous when it results in loss of what is really industry standard service capability.
If this requirement is so important to you (it's not to me), sounds like you should switch platforms and/or funds.

In the mean time, I'm all for lower costs.
Or jobs. It is a condition of employment which is a choice. I had several “onerous” conditions of employment. At one point, i had to disclose a personal balance sheet and income publicly in statutory filings.

In the 19080s and 90s my wife was an investment manager. We had to disclose any proposed trade, any time — fund or other - to her employer to get approval first. You get used to it.

They really aren't interested in what you have, only in compliance.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

watchnerd wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:22 am
beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:40 pm

Yes it is an invasion of privacy. You should only have to disclose info relevant to your job. Mutual funds are deemed NOT relevant to insider trading but by forcing them to be held in a brokerage acct makes them reported. Besides, most other fund managers still offer this service. In fact the legacy platform of mutual funds is the ONLY way one can buy directly from BlackRock. Fidelity still has fund-only accts. Vanguard cost cutting is ridiculous when it results in loss of what is really industry standard service capability.
If this requirement is so important to you (it's not to me), sounds like you should switch platforms and/or funds.

In the mean time, I'm all for lower costs.
Well they could lower costs even more. Get rid of the brokerage platform, get rid of all customer service and customers. Could fire most of the company, and tell all of us to hold our securities somewhere else. That would do FAR more to reduce costs. And take it one step further, stop managing funds and tell you to buy someone else’s funds, and then zero cost. Can eliminate electric costs shutting down all servers and offices. You can get to zero cost if cost reduction is the main goal.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 15062
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by watchnerd »

beyou wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:26 am
watchnerd wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:22 am

If this requirement is so important to you (it's not to me), sounds like you should switch platforms and/or funds.

In the mean time, I'm all for lower costs.
Well they could lower costs even more. Get rid of the brokerage platform, get rid of all customer service and customers. Could fire most of the company, and tell all of us to hold our securities somewhere else. That would do FAR more to reduce costs. And take it one step further, stop managing funds and tell you to buy someone else’s funds, and then zero cost. Can eliminate electric costs shutting down all servers and offices. You can get to zero cost if cost reduction is the main goal.
Cost reduction of running the funds is the context.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 78% / 17% / 5% || LMP: TIPS ladder
grok87
Posts: 10731
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by grok87 »

Makefile wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:38 pm
beyou wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:15 am And as I said above wont be as much cost savings as one would think. Back end does not go away, only the front end. Read above, no need to discuss again.
Perhaps it's not so much about saving money as getting the housecleaning that needs done before the unadvised brokerage clients can go the way of the variable annuity and individual 401(k) accounts :twisted:
interesting thought.
RIP Mr. Bogle.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by beyou »

watchnerd wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:05 am
beyou wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:26 am

Well they could lower costs even more. Get rid of the brokerage platform, get rid of all customer service and customers. Could fire most of the company, and tell all of us to hold our securities somewhere else. That would do FAR more to reduce costs. And take it one step further, stop managing funds and tell you to buy someone else’s funds, and then zero cost. Can eliminate electric costs shutting down all servers and offices. You can get to zero cost if cost reduction is the main goal.
Cost reduction of running the funds is the context.
Most unfortunate since closing down the fund only platform does not reduce the ER for any of the funds.
The funds pay Vanguard and Vanguard spends $ on IT out of their own pocket.
And please don't repeat their marketing jargon about how the funds own Vanguard, it has been discussed many times here that there is no evidence of any impact having the funds own Vanguard.
I really doubt you will see any ER change after this retirement, that can be attributed to this change.
And in fact, if they lose enough fund customers, the ER can actually go UP. Some fund costs are fixed, and if you lose assets then the fixed costs are spread amongst a smaller group, raising the ER.

I happily use the brokerage platform, but Vanguard is being ridiculous eliminating a service that MOST FUND MANAGERS offer.
This is not some side project like their foray into annuities, it is their core business they are eliminating.
grok87
Posts: 10731
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by grok87 »

beyou wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:31 am
watchnerd wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:05 am

Cost reduction of running the funds is the context.
Most unfortunate since closing down the fund only platform does not reduce the ER for any of the funds.
The funds pay Vanguard and Vanguard spends $ on IT out of their own pocket.
And please don't repeat their marketing jargon about how the funds own Vanguard, it has been discussed many times here that there is no evidence of any impact having the funds own Vanguard.
I really doubt you will see any ER change after this retirement, that can be attributed to this change.
And in fact, if they lose enough fund customers, the ER can actually go UP. Some fund costs are fixed, and if you lose assets then the fixed costs are spread amongst a smaller group, raising the ER.

I happily use the brokerage platform, but Vanguard is being ridiculous eliminating a service that MOST FUND MANAGERS offer.
This is not some side project like their foray into annuities, it is their core business they are eliminating.
+1
RIP Mr. Bogle.
User avatar
nisiprius
Advisory Board
Posts: 54143
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by nisiprius »

Regardless of what Vanguard should or should not be doing, or what we expect them to actually do or when, I made my decision two or three years ago.

I considered the "risk of being forced to spend hours on the phone and play telephone tag and mail things and straighten out glitches."

I judged that the risk would be lower if I tried to maintain a little control over the process by requesting transition at a time of my own choosing. Not close to tax time, starting or end of the year, vacation, financially busy, etc.

I find and found the whole thing annoying, but I have also found that I am not actually using the fund platform features that are missing on the new platform, and generally it has been no more than a minor grumble. The worst thing that happened to me was that the day of the month of my automatic RMD payments was changed from the 1st of the month to the 15th. I was told no, I couldn't continue to have it done on the first. I have never bothered to ask why not.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by digging in one's heals and obstinately refusing to do anything, just to see what Vanguard does. And if what actually happens is that on 12/31/2025 they automatically transition tens of thousands of account all at once, all on the same day, I think the forum will get a few postings about glitches in the process.

Conversely, if this is really a dealbreaker for staying at Vanguard, then, again, better to start the move to another brokerage soon, and at a calm time in one's financial life.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
jebmke
Posts: 29187
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Vanguard to Close Legacy Mutual Fund Platform by End of 2025

Post by jebmke »

nisiprius wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:54 am I don't think there's anything to be gained by digging in one's heals and obstinately refusing to do anything,
Or debating a done decision
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Post Reply