Christine Benz discusses her new book, "How to Retire," on Episode 73 of Bogleheads on Investing

[Rick Ferri]

LINK> Episode 73: Christine Benz discusses her new book, How to Retire

Christine Benz discusses her new book, "How to Retire: 20 Lessons for a Happy, Successful, and Wealthy Retirement," in Episode 73 of "Bogleheads on Investing." This podcast covers so much information that you'll probably listen twice!

Christine is the director of personal finance and retirement planning at Morningstar and senior columnist for Morningstar.com. She also co-hosts a podcast for Morningstar, The Long View. Christine is widely quoted in the media and the recipient of several awards, including being named by Barron’s as one of the ten most influential women in wealth management in 2021. She is the author or co-author of two previous books.

The Bogleheads on Investing podcast is supported by the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy, a non-profit organization approved by the IRS as a 501(c)(3) public charity on February 6, 2012. Your tax-deductible donation to the Bogle Center is appreciated.

Rick Ferri
Your Podcast Host

[AHK-Hero]

Thanks, Rick.

Will be sure to give it a listen.

[retiredjg]

Sounds like an interesting book Christine. I intend to get it when it comes out next month.

My favorite thing about it is this. In addition to the people we all know and respect and the usual topics that people are always interested in, you have also interviewed some knowledgable people we've never heard of and included a several topics that are rarely discussed.

It sounds like a good blend and I'm looking forward to it.

[Retiredrocketbuilder]

Am I missing something? Is there no closed caption or a transcript?

[Rick Ferri]

Am I missing something? Is there no closed caption or a transcript?

Transcripts of podcasts are usually available within a few days on BogleCenter.net.

[Mike Scott]

This is great! Waiting for the book release.

[pennsylvania211]

I just pre ordered. Always find her advice balanced and well thought out.

[unwitting_gulag]

Interesting podcast!

Nowise trying to be critical here, but this and similar expositions, point out an important thing: most of the retirement literature is aimed at folks who retire in more or less traditional ways. This includes some or all of the following:

1. A person is at or near the Social Security eligibility age. Call it 60+.
2. Family is involved. Spouse, children, siblings, maybe elderly parents,...
3. Career is concluded more or less on one's own terms.

And that makes sense, because most folks do have the above three attributes apply to them! But then, it's harder to parlay the conventional advice, to cases where:

1. Our prospective retiree is a full generation (or more) younger than the canonical age.
2. A person might have no relatives and no heirs. I mean, none... at all.
3. Career ends suddenly and spectacularly (catastrophic injury, criminal conviction, major scandal,...).

Again, not complaining here, but at some point, in some context, it would be interesting to see mention of the unconventional cases, and how to approach them.

[Retiredrocketbuilder]

Am I missing something? Is there no closed caption or a transcript?

Transcripts of podcasts are usually available within a few days on BogleCenter.net.

Thank you.

[Wannaretireearly]

Excellent, thank you for posting.
Just listened and a great synopsis of the book.

I was listening out for the ‘rich, broke, dead’ type conversation and finally heard it in the last chapter description.

A lot of us are numbers people, I would really love a quantitive discussion/write up. The ‘rich, broke, dead’ calculator does a nice visual job. Bill Perkins has mentioned his ‘counting the healthy days’ and making the most of them philosophy.

This book would make a great gift!

[jaMichael]

A difficult task to touch on 20 topics in two minutes apiece. I probably would have preferred fewer topics discussed in greater depth. Regardless, I always enjoy and appreciate this excellent podcast.

[Bammerman]

Excellent podcast. I'm looking forward to the book (which I plan to recommend that my local public library purchase, and which I will then check out and read).

[GaryA505]

I just pre ordered. Always find her advice balanced and well thought out.

I like her except for her seemingly endless promotion of the bucket strategy.

[Chv396]

Thanks Rick, for the information. Recently just read your book on Asset Allocation and found it very informative!

[bmelikia]

Will this book have an audiobook/Audible download option?

[Stinky]

Will this book have an audiobook/Audible download option?

Here’s a link to the Amazon listing. It says that a kindle version is available in addition to the standard paperback.

https://a.co/d/9v8yG6x

[Clever_Username]

This podcast covers so much information that you'll probably listen twice!

Very true. I've listened once, enjoyed, and I do plan to listen a second time in the not-too-distant future. I will probably also get the book and read it.

[iceport]

Christine Benz discusses her new book, "How to Retire: 20 Lessons for a Happy, Successful, and Wealthy Retirement," in Episode 73 of "Bogleheads on Investing." This podcast covers so much information that you'll probably listen twice!

This was a thoroughly enjoyable discussion! Excellent mix of authorities and topics included in the book, covered concisely and informatively in the podcast. I also loved what seemed like mutual respect and affection with the interviewed authors. And the appreciation expressed for Jonathan Clements, in particular, was sincerely heartwarming.


I must admit, when Christine Benz first showed up on my radar 15 years or so ago, I was skeptical. She seemed to me to have too strong an affinity for active management, and I suspected a conflict of interest due to her place of employment. Well — in the words of Gillian Welch — time's a revelator. Christine Benz has proven to be an honest broker, furthering the interests of individual investors with integrity. I am so happy to admit my first impression was completely wrong.

[id0ntkn0wjack]

Very nice episode & am looking forward to the release of Ms. Benz' new book.

[mikejuss]

That was a terrific episode. Thanks, Rick!

[ReadyOne]

I ordered the book.

[LadyGeek]

I was pleasantly surprised to hear pickleball mentioned for helping with relationships. We have an ongoing discussion: Who's up for pickleball? Zero-zero-two. Game On!

[SmileyFace]

Will this book have an audiobook/Audible download option?

Here’s a link to the Amazon listing. It says that a kindle version is available in addition to the standard paperback.

https://a.co/d/9v8yG6x

So will Audible be a available?

I listened to the podcast - great podcast and sounds like a great book with input from all the modern classic retirement experts.
I will plan to either buy it when released or wait a few months and see if it comes out on Audible.

[stan1]

But then, it's harder to parlay the conventional advice, to cases where:

1. Our prospective retiree is a full generation (or more) younger than the canonical age.
2. A person might have no relatives and no heirs. I mean, none... at all.
3. Career ends suddenly and spectacularly (catastrophic injury, criminal conviction, major scandal,...).

Again, not complaining here, but at some point, in some context, it would be interesting to see mention of the unconventional cases, and how to approach them.

I'm not sure your examples are handled much differently from an advice perspective?

People want optimistic advice not pessimistic advice. You just end up taking on more risk. The answers are earn more, spend less, be prepared to pay someone if no one will do it for you for free, and fall back on safety net if all else fails. Early retirees often seem to earn some income from a side gig or consulting. Some people who say they have no heirs do in fact have nieces, nephews, and cousins. You might have to hire an advisor or tax preparer if you can't do things yourself. Long term care facilities help get you on Medicaid. Courts and social workers deal with elderly who truly have no family assistance and are not mentally competent.

[unwitting_gulag]

But then, it's harder to parlay the conventional advice, to cases where:

1. Our prospective retiree is a full generation (or more) younger than the canonical age.
2. A person might have no relatives and no heirs. I mean, none... at all.
3. Career ends suddenly and spectacularly (catastrophic injury, criminal conviction, major scandal,...).

Again, not complaining here, but at some point, in some context, it would be interesting to see mention of the unconventional cases, and how to approach them.

I'm not sure your examples are handled much differently from an advice perspective?

People want optimistic advice not pessimistic advice. You just end up taking on more risk. The answers are earn more, spend less, be prepared to pay someone if no one will do it for you for free, and fall back on safety net if all else fails. Early retirees often seem to earn some income from a side gig or consulting. Some people who say they have no heirs do in fact have nieces, nephews, and cousins. You might have to hire an advisor or tax preparer if you can't do things yourself. Long term care facilities help get you on Medicaid. Courts and social workers deal with elderly who truly have no family assistance and are not mentally competent.

I meant questions such as the following:

1. An early-retiree might be "middle wealthy"... maybe bottom of the much-vaunted top-1%... way too little money for private/dedicated financial services, but way too much to feel commonality with one's neighbors, peers and [soon to be former] coworkers. How to deal with the isolation?

2. Persons without heirs, and with potentially very long retirements, may have very different risk profiles than those in conventional retirement, for estate planning. Different challenges in writing a will, in evolving a spending-plan, in asset allocation and so on.

3. The tax planning situation is very different. High marginal rates, few or no deductions, no senior-citizen tax-breaks. Also, an early retiree probably has most of his or her funds in a taxable account, there simply not having been enough time to grow a large IRA/401K based on max contributions and # years.

4. People retiring without spouses, children or other relatives, have particular struggles about "retiring to something", especially if up until then, they have been frenetically focused on work/career.

5. Housing and relocation: where to live in retirement, and how? What sort of house would a single-occupant buy, and by what criteria? For a person with no familial or community connection, how to choose a place to live - or for that matter, possibly even what country?

6. How to grapple with involuntary retirement? An example might be, a medical doctor who gets criminally convicted for over-prescribing opiates. After an event like that, one doesn't exactly have many options, between Wal-Mart greeter and retiree.

[stan1]

I meant questions such as the following:

1. An early-retiree might be "middle wealthy"... maybe bottom of the much-vaunted top-1%... way too little money for private/dedicated financial services, but way too much to feel commonality with one's neighbors, peers and [soon to be former] coworkers. How to deal with the isolation?

2. Persons without heirs, and with potentially very long retirements, may have very different risk profiles than those in conventional retirement, for estate planning. Different challenges in writing a will, in evolving a spending-plan, in asset allocation and so on.

3. The tax planning situation is very different. High marginal rates, few or no deductions, no senior-citizen tax-breaks. Also, an early retiree probably has most of his or her funds in a taxable account, there simply not having been enough time to grow a large IRA/401K based on max contributions and # years.

4. People retiring without spouses, children or other relatives, have particular struggles about "retiring to something", especially if up until then, they have been frenetically focused on work/career.

5. Housing and relocation: where to live in retirement, and how? What sort of house would a single-occupant buy, and by what criteria? For a person with no familial or community connection, how to choose a place to live - or for that matter, possibly even what country?

6. How to grapple with involuntary retirement? An example might be, a medical doctor who gets criminally convicted for over-prescribing opiates. After an event like that, one doesn't exactly have many options, between Wal-Mart greeter and retiree.

I do really understand what you are saying as someone who is likely to outlive my spouse by decades and not having children. But I think you are focusing on small differences rather than the big picture. Married couples with close relationships to their partners and multiple children can and often do experience all of the above. People become widows and widowers, and they sometimes outlive their children.

People with partners and kids do have someone close to discuss these types of things with so they may not need to hire a professional. Many single people have extended friend groups they talk about these types of things with. It is not accurate to assume that all single people are isolated.

A financial planner isn't the person to seek this type of advice from, its more lifestyle coaching if you don't have a partner or close friends to talk these things over with or therapy if it crosses into anxiety and depression (which is common in during aging and was under-treated for a long time). There are long term care brokers who help place people in the right long term care facilities. Career coaches for people who need to or want to change careers.

I'm aware of several situations where white collar professionals have been prosecuted for crimes. They work in low wage services jobs. One physician I'm aware of who abused opioids started a home remodeling business after losing his medical license.

[rockstar]

I meant questions such as the following:

1. An early-retiree might be "middle wealthy"... maybe bottom of the much-vaunted top-1%... way too little money for private/dedicated financial services, but way too much to feel commonality with one's neighbors, peers and [soon to be former] coworkers. How to deal with the isolation?

2. Persons without heirs, and with potentially very long retirements, may have very different risk profiles than those in conventional retirement, for estate planning. Different challenges in writing a will, in evolving a spending-plan, in asset allocation and so on.

3. The tax planning situation is very different. High marginal rates, few or no deductions, no senior-citizen tax-breaks. Also, an early retiree probably has most of his or her funds in a taxable account, there simply not having been enough time to grow a large IRA/401K based on max contributions and # years.

4. People retiring without spouses, children or other relatives, have particular struggles about "retiring to something", especially if up until then, they have been frenetically focused on work/career.

5. Housing and relocation: where to live in retirement, and how? What sort of house would a single-occupant buy, and by what criteria? For a person with no familial or community connection, how to choose a place to live - or for that matter, possibly even what country?

6. How to grapple with involuntary retirement? An example might be, a medical doctor who gets criminally convicted for over-prescribing opiates. After an event like that, one doesn't exactly have many options, between Wal-Mart greeter and retiree.

I do really understand what you are saying as someone who is likely to outlive my spouse by decades and not having children. But I think you are focusing on small differences rather than the big picture. Married couples with close relationships to their partners and multiple children can and often do experience all of the above. People become widows and widowers, and they sometimes outlive their children.

People with partners and kids do have someone close to discuss these types of things with so they may not need to hire a professional. Many single people have extended friend groups they talk about these types of things with. It is not accurate to assume that all single people are isolated.

A financial planner isn't the person to seek this type of advice from, its more lifestyle coaching if you don't have a partner or close friends to talk these things over with or therapy if it crosses into anxiety and depression (which is common in during aging and was under-treated for a long time). There are long term care brokers who help place people in the right long term care facilities. Career coaches for people who need to or want to change careers.

I'm aware of several situations where white collar professionals have been prosecuted for crimes. They work in low wage services jobs. One physician I'm aware of who abused opioids started a home remodeling business after losing his medical license.

Be careful with the life coaching stuff. I’ve known people to fall into cults and scammed via them. Best to get a legit therapist if necessary.

[Rick Ferri]

Am I missing something? Is there no closed caption or a transcript?

Transcripts of podcasts are usually available within a few days on BogleCenter.net.

Perhaps closed captioning should be made available at the same time when the podcasts are posted.

Why should the deaf and hearing impaired folks be treated as an after thought?

Everyone who is not deaf or hearing impaired can enjoy the podcast right away while the deaf and hearing impaired folks have to wait for a few days and that's just usually the case but not guaranteed?

Isn't that a form of neglect or disenfranchisement?

I used to be the vice president of a volunteer fire department. I had a saying, if you thought something should be done, then you just volunteered to take charge of it.

Everyone here is a volunteer. If you wish to see an immediate and accurate transcript right after a podcast is posted, then do it.

[angelescrest]

Am I missing something? Is there no closed caption or a transcript?

Transcripts of podcasts are usually available within a few days on BogleCenter.net.

Perhaps closed captioning should be made available at the same time when the podcasts are posted.

Why should the deaf and hearing impaired folks be treated as an after thought?

Everyone who is not deaf or hearing impaired can enjoy the podcast right away while the deaf and hearing impaired folks have to wait for a few days and that's just usually the case but not guaranteed?

Isn't that a form of neglect or disenfranchisement?

I used to be the vice president of a volunteer fire department. I had a saying, if you thought something should be done, then you just volunteered to take charge of it.

Everyone here is a volunteer. If you wish to see an immediate and accurate transcript right after a podcast is posted, then do it.

In all fairness, the creation of appropriate transcription and closed captioning is done by the podcast producer as part of the distribution process, and a well established standard for any media organization big or small.

There are many services that are easy and affordable that can essentially automate this as part of your workflow. Given the stated mission of The John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy, getting these valuable resources into the hands of everyone seems to align with today’s accessibility standards. I can’t imagine members of the board not wanting resources used for this purpose? I can’t imagine it’s a lack of funding, but if so, tell me what to annotate on a donation to support this and I’ll gladly do it.

Regarding the book, I preordered a copy and plan to give it to someone who needs it.

[evelynmanley]

Am I missing something? Is there no closed caption or a transcript?

Transcripts of podcasts are usually available within a few days on BogleCenter.net.

Perhaps closed captioning should be made available at the same time when the podcasts are posted.

Why should the deaf and hearing impaired folks be treated as an after thought?

Everyone who is not deaf or hearing impaired can enjoy the podcast right away while the deaf and hearing impaired folks have to wait for a few days and that's just usually the case but not guaranteed?

Isn't that a form of neglect or disenfranchisement?

I've been using a fantastic transcription app called McWhisper. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/whisper-t ... 3311?mt=12
It will transcribe audio from a podcast (if you purchase the paid version, which is incredibly inexpensive). If you need any help setting it up on your computer, feel free to PM me or you can contact the developer, Jordi Bruin, who has always responded to me within 24 hours, sometimes within minutes. You have to turn on the right settings on your computer in order for McWhisper to access a podcast recording, and McWhisper will prompt you. It's amazing.

https://goodsnooze.gumroad.com/l/macwhisper

[Rick Ferri]

In all fairness, the creation of appropriate transcription and closed captioning is done by the podcast producer as part of the distribution process, and a well established standard for any media organization big or small.

That may be in true in the commercial world. It’s not true here. 100% of the “production” of this podcast every month is done by me personally. I put in about 30 hours seeking out guests, reading their materials, interviewing them, editing the interview, putting together the tape, and publishing it. Other volunteers take that tape and create an ACCURATE transcript. It was tough to find someone who would do that, but people did step forward.

All I’m asking for is if someone is not satisfied with how fast ACCURATE transcripts get out, that they step forward and volunteered to do it.

Rick Ferri

[iceport]

In all fairness, the creation of appropriate transcription and closed captioning is done by the podcast producer as part of the distribution process, and a well established standard for any media organization big or small.

That may be in true in the commercial world. It’s not true here. 100% of the “production” of this podcast every month is done by me personally. I put in about 30 hours seeking out guests, reading their materials, interviewing them, editing the interview, putting together the tape, and publishing it. Other volunteers take that tape and create an ACCURATE transcript. It was tough to find someone who would do that, but people did step forward.

All I’m asking for is if someone is not satisfied with how fast ACCURATE transcripts get out, that they step forward and volunteered to do it.

Rick Ferri

No good deed goes unpunished, apparently...


[THANK YOU for all your work, Rick. These interviews are all fantastic. ]

[Stinky]

In all fairness, the creation of appropriate transcription and closed captioning is done by the podcast producer as part of the distribution process, and a well established standard for any media organization big or small.

That may be in true in the commercial world. It’s not true here. 100% of the “production” of this podcast every month is done by me personally. I put in about 30 hours seeking out guests, reading their materials, interviewing them, editing the interview, putting together the tape, and publishing it. Other volunteers take that tape and create an ACCURATE transcript. It was tough to find someone who would do that, but people did step forward.

All I’m asking for is if someone is not satisfied with how fast ACCURATE transcripts get out, that they step forward and volunteered to do it.

Rick Ferri

No good deed goes unpunished, apparently...


[THANK YOU for all your work, Rick. These interviews are all fantastic. ]

100% agree.

[WoodSpinner]

Rick,

Great interview, it sounds like a really great book and a useful resource.

Many thanks,

WoodSpinner

[mtn biker]

I found interview format to be an excellent choice given the book layout, spending a couple minutes on each chapter helped ensure we had a good understanding of what the book contains, and little helpful blurbs along the way. I could see a general discussion of the book without that format missing information on chapters or not giving a great representation of the book, so just wanted to say I appreciated the format.

I do agree the book leans toward “traditional” situations, even down to the tidbit about giving actionable advice like “saving information from the work computer” as you get closer to the “date”. But then you also discussed things like phased retirement, and I think the book is broad enough to be helpful to people in varied situations far outside the traditional retirement path.

I’d love to know if there is a book directed more toward “phased retirement”? If anyone knows of one I’d be interested.

How to Retire is on my “to read” list and I greatly appreciate the podcast, it was helpful even before reading the book. Greatly appreciate it!

[Rick Ferri]

Your question is perfectly legitimate and I’m glad you asked.

No. I don’t receive any compensation from interviews or podcasts.

That said, people do contact me for advice after listening to a podcast or reading an interview, and over time I may have a paid consultation with them, but the wait list for a consultation is over one year long. I’ll be long retired before getting to everyone on the list.

Rick Ferri

[Rick Ferri]

It’s better I do it for free and get out the right Bogleheads message than their audience not hear it.

[Rick Ferri]

I don’t post any links to my website on this forum, nor do I talk about my business during a podcast unless specifically asked by the host. I believe posting a business link is prohibited. I think people can post links to commercial sites they are not affiliated with as long as it’s within the context of the conversation, but I might be wrong about that.

[oldlongbeard]

Thanks for volunteering so much time, Rick. 99.9999% of us are so grateful for what you bring to us Bogleheads! Ignore the noise.

[Misenplace]

A couple of posts with a lot of false assumptions and accusations have been removed. Please note that Bogleheads.org, aka This Forum, is a separate entity from the Bogleheads on Investing podcast. The team that runs Bogleheads.org and enforces our forum policy can be found at the Quick Links at the top of every page, and here: memberlist.php?mode=team . If you have any questions about the administration of this forum, you should PM a member of our team.


Moderator Misenplace

[foosball]

The attack on Mr. Ferri was deeply entitled and insulting, and I feel no obligation to help that person. However, if others are somehow "disenfranchised" by the short, reasonable delay between podcast publication and the availability of a human-generated transcript, I will offer that Apple Podcasts now autogenerates a transcript in that app that is available immediately. See https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/03/ ... -podcasts/

There are also now a large number of free and paid services that use AI to generate excellent written transcripts from audio nearly instantly, that a complainant could avail themselves of by their own volition.

[LadyGeek]

Those posts have been removed. If we missed anything, please report the post using the (report post) icon in the top-right corner of the post and explain what's wrong. See: General Etiquette

If you feel that someone has attacked you or otherwise violated the policies of this forum, do not respond in kind. Instead, please click the report button on the offending post. This is the quickest method to notify the site moderators.

[Random Musings]

Rick,

Thank you for the hard work you put into generating the library of thought provoking podcasts as well as the many thoughtful responses you have provided on this board over these many years (decades now).

Having people challenge your ethics, without due diligence, is disrespectful to you personally and is an unfortunate event that doesn't represent the very strong majority of the Boglehead community. The decay of morals in society, sadly, is a growing trend.

RM

[Kevin K]

Late to the party here but I wanted to thank you Rick for all of the work you put into this fantastic series. This particular interview with Christine Benz really exemplifies the virtues of the Bogleheads community as a whole. You and Christine are obviously both in top form and it is quite a feat to pull off concise thumbnail summaries of all 20 chapters in a short podcast. Moreover, the people Christine chose to include are themselves leading lights in the Bogleheads community. How anyone could react to this podcast with anything other than great gratitude and respect is beyond me.

[jpohio]

Outstanding interview.

[a.s.r]

In all fairness, the creation of appropriate transcription and closed captioning is done by the podcast producer as part of the distribution process, and a well established standard for any media organization big or small.

That may be in true in the commercial world. It’s not true here. 100% of the “production” of this podcast every month is done by me personally. I put in about 30 hours seeking out guests, reading their materials, interviewing them, editing the interview, putting together the tape, and publishing it. Other volunteers take that tape and create an ACCURATE transcript. It was tough to find someone who would do that, but people did step forward.

All I’m asking for is if someone is not satisfied with how fast ACCURATE transcripts get out, that they step forward and volunteered to do it.

Rick Ferri

No good deed goes unpunished, apparently...


[THANK YOU for all your work, Rick. These interviews are all fantastic. ]

+1. I really enjoy your podcast! Thank you!

If you ever do need help with something, ask in the podcast and I’d be happy to volunteer! (Except not creating transcripts faster, since I don’t think it’s that important and I’m sure that other guy is going to pop back in to say he already has it covered. )

[tomd37]

I thoroughly enjoyed this particular podcast. Thank you and well done to both Rick and Christine for the podcast and thanks to the contributors to each chapter. Being in our later 80s we are well beyond most topics discussed here and have already covered those age appropriate items. I immediately thought about our daughter and husband who are now at possible retirement age and I ordered two books; one for me and one for them. I look forward to more details in each chapter.

[sschullo]

I have listened to Christine's Long View podcasts for years. I thoroughly enjoyed all of them.

[Retiredrocketbuilder]

Transcripts of podcasts are usually available within a few days on BogleCenter.net.

Rick, please pass on my heartfelt thanks to your volunteer who did the transcript. The interview and the transcript are very much appreciated.

[gatorking]

Hmm, the book cover on Goodreads has this as 25 lessons. I wonder which 5 were dropped in the final version.