New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

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Iorek
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New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Iorek »

Anyone else get this email—

“If you choose to remain on the mutual fund-only platform after September 30, 2022, you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account to offset the costs and complexity of maintaining this system. You'll see a fee of $40.00 in your transaction history. Additionally, your account may lose certain features and functionality over time.”

Not really clear why we would see a fee of $40 in our transaction history if the fee is $20 (VTSAX is our only fund) but don’t plan on sticking with the mutual fund account to test what happens.
Gnirk
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Gnirk »

No, we haven't received it....yet. I'm waiting until they force us to change because we have dividends from some funds directed to purchase other funds, and changing to the brokerage account would require me to do it manually and having funds out of the market for two days isn't something I want to deal with. And I hate their "new" website. It's horrible.
mamster
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by mamster »

I'd interpret "fund account" to mean a type of account like a taxable account, Roth IRA, etc. In your list of accounts at Vanguard, do you have two accounts, each holding VTSAX? Or only one?
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Good. Long overdue.

Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
Last edited by Cheez-It Guy on Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
PersonalFinanceJam
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by PersonalFinanceJam »

It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

no. didn't get that email.

and don't you think they'd put that right on the first page after logging in? If not, why? I'm still seeing this:
Transition your account today

Please take a few minutes to transition your mutual fund account to our brokerage platform.
Transition now

Why we're asking you to do this

As we work to retire our old investment platform, it may lose some features and functionality, which could impact your mutual fund account over time.

Our brokerage account delivers a faster, simpler way to manage your accounts. And by offering a single, flexible platform for all our clients to use, we can make service improvements faster too.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
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Stinky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Stinky »

Iorek wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:25 am Anyone else get this email—

“If you choose to remain on the mutual fund-only platform after September 30, 2022, you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account to offset the costs and complexity of maintaining this system. You'll see a fee of $40.00 in your transaction history. Additionally, your account may lose certain features and functionality over time.”

Not really clear why we would see a fee of $40 in our transaction history if the fee is $20 (VTSAX is our only fund) but don’t plan on sticking with the mutual fund account to test what happens.
Haven’t seen such an email.

When did you receive it?
Retired life insurance company financial officer who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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Stinky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Stinky »

PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
Retired life insurance company financial officer who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
PersonalFinanceJam
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by PersonalFinanceJam »

Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:08 pm
PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
The current site says less than 1 million in vanguard funds. It used to say less than 10k per mutual fund or less than 50K in Vanguard assets/sign up for e-delivery. The wording on the current site around avoiding fess for e-delivery now specifically says for brokerage accounts.
illumination
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by illumination »

Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:08 pm
PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
This link is saying you need to hit a $1 million to get the fee waived:

Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund. We'll waive the fee if you have at least $1 million in qualifying Vanguard assets. Refer to the applicable fund prospectus for other exclusions that may apply.


https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

illumination wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:13 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:08 pm
PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
This link is saying you need to hit a $1 million to get the fee waived:

Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund. We'll waive the fee if you have at least $1 million in qualifying Vanguard assets. Refer to the applicable fund prospectus for other exclusions that may apply.


https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees
There must be a caching issue on their end. I'm still seeing
Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund with an account balance of less than $10,000.
Mike Scott
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mike Scott »

Transitioning your account is less effort than typing into this discussion. Just do it.
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ResearchMed
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by ResearchMed »

Apparently one can still have the account fee eliminated by using e-delivery... except for those with 403b plan accounts. Each participant will be charged $5/month, and there doesn't seem to be any way for that to get waived.

When our 403b plan was still at Vanguard (until 2020), e-delivery would also eliminate the fee.

Yet another reason we are very glad that Employer moved the entire 403b plan back to TIAA (which has vastly improved since Employer moved the "moveable bits" of the 403b out of TIAA and over to Vanguard (with a choice to use Fidelity as well).

I wonder why the 403b plan participants can't have the fee waived by using e-delivery, other than the fact that Vanguard "can" impose the fee and no Employer is (yet?) balking...

We've each got small TIRA and Roth IRAs left at Vanguard, and I think it's time to move them to Schwab or TIAA, and be done with Vanguard entirely.

RM
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Joyful
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Joyful »

Hi - Why don't you go ahead and make the switch to brokerage account(s)?
I did years ago.
illumination
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by illumination »

exodusNH wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:16 pm
illumination wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:13 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:08 pm
PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
This link is saying you need to hit a $1 million to get the fee waived:

Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund. We'll waive the fee if you have at least $1 million in qualifying Vanguard assets. Refer to the applicable fund prospectus for other exclusions that may apply.


https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees
There must be a caching issue on their end. I'm still seeing
Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund with an account balance of less than $10,000.
Image
Zanmar
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Zanmar »

Does that mean there is a $20 fee on the money market settlement fund in each brokerage account?
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

illumination wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:16 pm
illumination wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:13 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:08 pm
PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am It appears there have been some changes to the fee schedule as reported by Vanguard on their site with respect to mutual fund only accounts. This is what it says now:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

This is what the Internet Archive says it said back in May of this year
https://web.archive.org/web/20220517164 ... count-fees
Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
This link is saying you need to hit a $1 million to get the fee waived:

Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund. We'll waive the fee if you have at least $1 million in qualifying Vanguard assets. Refer to the applicable fund prospectus for other exclusions that may apply.


https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees
There must be a caching issue on their end. I'm still seeing
Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund with an account balance of less than $10,000.
Image
Hahahahahahaha... The data is different in mobile and desktop views.

Way to go, Vanguard, with your "nifty" new site and A++ development team!
Topic Author
Iorek
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Iorek »

mamster wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:34 am I'd interpret "fund account" to mean a type of account like a taxable account, Roth IRA, etc. In your list of accounts at Vanguard, do you have two accounts, each holding VTSAX? Or only one?
Ah. I do have a Roth IRA (and a traditional IRA for backdoor Roth purposes).
PersonalFinanceJam
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by PersonalFinanceJam »

exodusNH wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:34 pm
illumination wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:16 pm
illumination wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:13 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:08 pm

Per the first link, it looks like this applies to mutual fund accounts with a balance of less than $10,000.

Many folks on this Forum have accounts greater than that size.
This link is saying you need to hit a $1 million to get the fee waived:

Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund. We'll waive the fee if you have at least $1 million in qualifying Vanguard assets. Refer to the applicable fund prospectus for other exclusions that may apply.


https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees
There must be a caching issue on their end. I'm still seeing
Mutual fund-only accounts:

$20 for each Vanguard mutual fund with an account balance of less than $10,000.
Image
Hahahahahahaha... The data is different in mobile and desktop views.

Way to go, Vanguard, with your "nifty" new site and A++ development team!
On my iPhone 11 in portrait orientation I see the verbage about needing 10K. If I rotate the phone sideways to landscape (wider screen) the page updates with the 1 million dollar verbage. That's just...special...
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galawdawg
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by galawdawg »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm Apparently one can still have the account fee eliminated by using e-delivery... except for those with 403b plan accounts. Each participant will be charged $5/month, and there doesn't seem to be any way for that to get waived.
It appears that the fee waiver when receiving statements via e-delivery ONLY applies to brokerage accounts and NOT to accounts on the mutual fund platform.

Interesting to note that this new fee from Vanguard only applies to those who are most likely their longest-tenured and most loyal customers. That's a nice slap in the face for you...

I also can't help but see the irony that some Vanguard supporters here have previously opined that investors should stay at Vanguard rather than switch to Fidelity or Schwab because, while it currently costs nothing more to invest at those firms than it does at Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab could quickly start imposing unwanted fees. Looks like Vanguard is first to the plate for creating new fees....Whoops!

And for those on the MF platform, if you are going to switch anyway...why not consider switching to a brokerage with competent and responsive 24/7 customer service (including via chat and secure message), dedicated personal representatives (generally with just $250k), basic investing costs as low as (or lower than) Vanguard, and a wider array of products and services, including banking. Plus, while Fidelity requires a $1 million transfer to pay a bonus, others (such as Schwab) will pay a transfer bonus for much smaller portfolios. :beer
Last edited by galawdawg on Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
an_asker
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by an_asker »

We transitioned a long long time ago. But I never understood the difference between the two lol
MrJedi
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by MrJedi »

I get the impression that the $20 mutual fund fee is separate from the paper statements fee. And interestingly the paper statements fee waiver was increased from $10k to $1MM.

I'm already on brokerage platform but in general I've been unhappy with what Vanguard has been doing the past several years. Taking away leveraged funds, taking away OTC securities, making the website worse and less functional, now assessing extra fees, etc. I don't use leveraged funds or OTC securities but don't like the idea of limitations getting added over time instead of getting more functionality. I maintain accounts at Fidelity and consolidating is on the back of my mind continually since Vanguard seems to be going backwards.
home_body
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by home_body »

Iorek wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:25 am Anyone else get this email—

“If you choose to remain on the mutual fund-only platform after September 30, 2022, you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account to offset the costs and complexity of maintaining this system. You'll see a fee of $40.00 in your transaction history. Additionally, your account may lose certain features and functionality over time.”

Not really clear why we would see a fee of $40 in our transaction history if the fee is $20 (VTSAX is our only fund) but don’t plan on sticking with the mutual fund account to test what happens.
You may have two mutual fund only accounts? It does say "... you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account". I also received an email this morning regarding this.
lakpr
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by lakpr »

galawdawg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:43 pm And for those on the MF platform, if you are going to switch anyway...why not consider switching to a brokerage with competent and responsive 24/7 customer service (including via chat and secure message), dedicated personal representatives (generally with just $250k), basic investing costs as low as (or lower than) Vanguard, and a wider array of products and services, including banking. Plus, while Fidelity requires a $1 million transfer to pay a bonus, others (such as Schwab) will pay a transfer bonus for much smaller portfolios. :beer
Got that dreaded email!

I work in the financial industry, so any Brokerage account will have to be reported for compliance reasons for both myself and my wife. We have maintained the MF platform so far with Vanguard, thus avoiding reporting of our financial picture to my company. When Vanguard started pushing the Brokerage platform two years ago, we declined for this reason.

Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).

Complicating the issue: my past-employer 401(k) and my wife's past-employer 403(b) are with Vanguard. I wonder what happens with the Retirement Plans?
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm I work in the financial industry, so any Brokerage account will have to be reported for compliance reasons for both myself and my wife. We have maintained the MF platform so far with Vanguard, thus avoiding reporting of our financial picture to my company. When Vanguard started pushing the Brokerage platform two years ago, we declined for this reason.
You might want to call and ask if it can be waived. I believe I've seen posts here indicating that Vanguard will still open mutual fund only accounts for that specific reason.

As alex_686 has said many time, Vanguard will likely have a long way to go before shutting down that platform, as they can't force people to move. They could only do it by essentially cashing everyone out. They can't cash out the small guys and leave the $1M ones untouched.
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Kevin M
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Kevin M »

In the past, Vanguard required a paper form to "upgrade" trust mutual fund accounts, which is one reason I delayed. Just now I was able to do it online in a about a minute; merged into my existing Vanguard brokerage account.

I didn't get the email, and probably qualify for the fee exemption, but I'd rather have a single trust brokerage account.

Kevin
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
sycamore
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sycamore »

lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm ...
Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).
T. Rowe Price and Fidelity still do.

T. Rowe Price: https://www.troweprice.com/personal-inv ... ounts.html and click on the link for "Individual Owner:

From the Fidelity subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fidelityinvestments/comments/r9j70f/how_do_i_open_up_a_mutual_fund_only_online_account/ wrote: A mutual fund-only account is a type of brokerage account that only allows for investments in Fidelity mutual funds. You are not able to invest in individual stocks, bonds, options, or non-Fidelity mutual funds. While this account has become less popular, it is still used sometimes, specifically when the owner works for another financial institution, like in your case. However, they can no longer be opened online. If you would like to open a mutual fund-only account, please contact us by phone or send us a ModMail so we can follow up with you.
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Blues
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Blues »

Just got the email...but we'd already finished with the transition of our taxable and tax advantaged accounts.
Transition your account for an enhanced experience and to avoid fees
Nearly 10 years ago, we introduced the Vanguard Brokerage Account (VBA), an investing platform that gives you access to additional products and enhanced security features. Today, one or more of your accounts remain on our legacy mutual fund-only investment platform. We're working to retire that platform so we can better serve all clients with a more modern, personalized investing experience.

If you choose to remain on the mutual fund-only platform after September 30, 2022, you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account to offset the costs and complexity of maintaining this system. You'll see a fee of $20.00 in your transaction history. Additionally, your account may lose certain features and functionality over time.

However, if you transition your account to the VBA platform, you can avoid paying this account service fee. There's no charge to switch, and in most cases, you can make the change online in a few minutes. If you've recently completed this transition, please disregard this notice.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Doom&Gloom »

sycamore wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:35 pm
lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm ...
Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).
T. Rowe Price and Fidelity still do.

T. Rowe Price: https://www.troweprice.com/personal-inv ... ounts.html and click on the link for "Individual Owner:

From the Fidelity subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fidelityinvestments/comments/r9j70f/how_do_i_open_up_a_mutual_fund_only_online_account/ wrote: A mutual fund-only account is a type of brokerage account that only allows for investments in Fidelity mutual funds. You are not able to invest in individual stocks, bonds, options, or non-Fidelity mutual funds. While this account has become less popular, it is still used sometimes, specifically when the owner works for another financial institution, like in your case. However, they can no longer be opened online. If you would like to open a mutual fund-only account, please contact us by phone or send us a ModMail so we can follow up with you.
Be aware that Fidelity does not allow its Zero funds to be purchased in its mutual fund-only accounts. Or at least it did not when the Zero funds were first introduced and I attempted to purchase them.
lakpr
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by lakpr »

sycamore wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:35 pm
lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm ...
Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).
T. Rowe Price and Fidelity still do.
Thank you, sycamore!

Let me check out Fidelity first, they have an office about 8 miles (slightly farther than the Schwab office) away from where I live ...
Doom&Gloom wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:51 pm Be aware that Fidelity does not allow its Zero funds to be purchased in its mutual fund-only accounts. Or at least it did not when the Zero funds were first introduced and I attempted to purchase them.
Thanks for the additional information. Not interested in the Zero funds, so not an issue.
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Flobes
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Flobes »

Kevin M wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:29 pm Just now I was able to do it online in a about a minute; merged into my existing Vanguard brokerage account.
What are the steps to accomplish this?

I've attempted to get this handled on the website for quite a while.

I have four mutual fund accounts (Taxable, Roth, IRA, Inherited IRA). Each already has a brokerage account, opened when I first transferred money into VG and had to consolidate everything into the mutual fund accounts. I fetched them from "hidden" and they show up, but I can't figure out how to do the transfer.

As my dad liked to say, "You're always two clicks away!"
Kevin M wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:29 pm I didn't get the email, and probably qualify for the fee exemption...
I got the email 7 am today.

No waiver for being a Flagshipper.

Mine says, ...you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account... You'll see a fee of $60.00 in your transaction history. Now, I have four accounts, so I don't get the math to $60. Two of those four accounts have three funds (two VG mutual funds plus money market), so I'm still baffled.
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Kevin M
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Kevin M »

Flobes wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:09 pm
Kevin M wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:29 pm Just now I was able to do it online in a about a minute; merged into my existing Vanguard brokerage account.
What are the steps to accomplish this?
There was an Upgrade link just under the account registration. I clicked it, and clicked through a couple of screens to complete it.
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
Gaston
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Gaston »

mamster wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:34 am I'd interpret "fund account" to mean a type of account like a taxable account, Roth IRA, etc.
Mamster is correct, it is a type of account. I converted my mutual fund accounts (taxable account and traditional IRA account) to brokerage accounts a few years ago. My wife still had a mutual fund account (a traditional IRA account), which we converted two weeks ago. We called Vanguard on a Friday, requested the conversion over the phone, and they took care of it. The new "brokerage" account appeared the following Monday, with assets and purchase history correctly converted. We did print our transaction record as a "just in case" prior to the conversion, and we reconciled it against the post-conversion entries.

Yes, requesting the conversion and confirming its accuracy took about an hour of our time, but it wasn't difficult.
Last edited by Gaston on Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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femur
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by femur »

Just got it.

A fee was my bell whether for transitioning to a brokerage acct so I guess I am doing it now.
mamster
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by mamster »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm Apparently one can still have the account fee eliminated by using e-delivery... except for those with 403b plan accounts. Each participant will be charged $5/month, and there doesn't seem to be any way for that to get waived.

When our 403b plan was still at Vanguard (until 2020), e-delivery would also eliminate the fee.
My wife's 403(b) is with Vanguard and we've always been charged $5/month with e-delivery. I think we opened the account in 2018. I chalked the fee up to record-keeping expenses (Fidelity charges $2/month, so I've considered moving it over but so far haven't been bothered to do so).
an_asker
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by an_asker »

Flobes wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:09 pm [...]No waiver for being a Flagshipper.

Mine says, ...you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account... You'll see a fee of $60.00 in your transaction history. Now, I have four accounts, so I don't get the math to $60. Two of those four accounts have three funds (two VG mutual funds plus money market), so I'm still baffled.
Maybe, as Flagshipper, you got a 25% discount? ;-)

#justsaying lol
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Monster99
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Monster99 »

lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm
galawdawg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:43 pm And for those on the MF platform, if you are going to switch anyway...why not consider switching to a brokerage with competent and responsive 24/7 customer service (including via chat and secure message), dedicated personal representatives (generally with just $250k), basic investing costs as low as (or lower than) Vanguard, and a wider array of products and services, including banking. Plus, while Fidelity requires a $1 million transfer to pay a bonus, others (such as Schwab) will pay a transfer bonus for much smaller portfolios. :beer
Got that dreaded email!

I work in the financial industry, so any Brokerage account will have to be reported for compliance reasons for both myself and my wife. We have maintained the MF platform so far with Vanguard, thus avoiding reporting of our financial picture to my company. When Vanguard started pushing the Brokerage platform two years ago, we declined for this reason.

Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).

Complicating the issue: my past-employer 401(k) and my wife's past-employer 403(b) are with Vanguard. I wonder what happens with the Retirement Plans?
Dodge and Cox is MF only but they are higher in fees ~0.5%, plus they are prone to throwing substantial amounts of capital gains at year end...
passive101
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by passive101 »

Will this effect Roth IRAs? I have VTWAX & VSIAX in mine
ruud
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by ruud »

passive101 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:40 pm Will this effect Roth IRAs? I have VTWAX & VSIAX in mine
Is your Roth IRA on the mutual-fund-only or on the brokerage platform? (Does it have a settlement fund?)
.
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jeffyscott
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Good. Long overdue.

Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
Ah, yes, cheering on Vanguard for imposing new fees and doing so with less than 60 days notice. Though there's been no notification at all here. Maybe like taking away secure messaging, Vanguard is only testing this new fee on some customers?

How has adding new fees ever been "obviously telegraphed"? All that they have ever "telegraphed" is that the account "may lose some features and functionality".
And so it goes, And so it goes, And so it goes, And so it goes, But where it's goin' no one knows
solarcub
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by solarcub »

Joyful wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:22 pm Hi - Why don't you go ahead and make the switch to brokerage account(s)?
I did years ago.
I tried to, and the conversion failed, said something about dividends. We have an account where dividends from Wellington were going into Total Stock Market, so I changed everything to "reinvest", and tried again. Still failed, same message. Tried a couple weeks later, same thing. I guess I'll have to call them, which I'm not looking forward to.
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starboi
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by starboi »

I guess this is how they are gonna fund the losses from the Target Date capital gains lawsuit.
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beyou
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by beyou »

exodusNH wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:13 pm
lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm I work in the financial industry, so any Brokerage account will have to be reported for compliance reasons for both myself and my wife. We have maintained the MF platform so far with Vanguard, thus avoiding reporting of our financial picture to my company. When Vanguard started pushing the Brokerage platform two years ago, we declined for this reason.
You might want to call and ask if it can be waived. I believe I've seen posts here indicating that Vanguard will still open mutual fund only accounts for that specific re

As alex_686 has said many time, Vanguard will likely have a long way to go before shutting down that platform, as they can't force people to move. They could only do it by essentially cashing everyone out. They can't cash out the small guys and leave the $1M ones untouched.
I had a new fund-only acct opened after such ability was removed on the site (had to mail in a form). This was due to same issue reported above, my job was in the industry. Now that I recently retired, no problem moving to the new platform, took a few minutes of my time and Vanguard did the rest.
MadHungarian
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by MadHungarian »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Good. Long overdue.
Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
Well i haven't received that email yet, but the Vanguard's conversion reminders to me are getting more intrusive, so no doubt they'll be sending me the 'fee' email before long. (Mind you, the fee might be worth it to me, to avoid the brokerage account annoyances!)

But i agree that it's probably not wise to wait until the big rush, so i may actually break down and actually do the conversion, bleah.
lakpr
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by lakpr »

Monster99 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:39 pm Dodge and Cox is MF only but they are higher in fees ~0.5%, plus they are prone to throwing substantial amounts of capital gains at year end...
Thanks Monster99!

Not sold on Dodge & Cox. I had, since the morning, browsing the T Rowe Price site, and while the fees are slightly higher, they have the basic ingredients for the 2-fund portfolio (POMIX: Total Stock Market Index, PBDIX: QM US Core Bond Index). The differential in expense ratios, compared to Vanguard, is about 0.2%. On our combined taxable account balances of around $230k, it's $460 extra per year.

I think I will bite the $20*2 = $40 per year fee at Vanguard, since moving to T Rowe Price is much costlier.

NOT HAPPY AT ALL, however.
PersonalFinanceJam
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by PersonalFinanceJam »

jeffyscott wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:27 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Good. Long overdue.

Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
Ah, yes, cheering on Vanguard for imposing new fees and doing so with less than 60 days notice. Though there's been no notification at all here. Maybe like taking away secure messaging, Vanguard is only testing this new fee on some customers?

How has adding new fees ever been "obviously telegraphed"? All that they have ever "telegraphed" is that the account "may lose some features and functionality".
I rarely agree with Cheez-It Guy but on this I must. I understand none of us knew when or what form some of these measures would take but I find it hard to argue that it wasn't clear Vanguard wanted customers to move or there wouldn't be repercussions for staying put. The feature being lost in this case is free access to a dead end platform.
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jeffyscott
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

galawdawg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:43 pmAnd for those on the MF platform, if you are going to switch anyway...why not consider switching to a brokerage with competent and responsive 24/7 customer service (including via chat and secure message), dedicated personal representatives (generally with just $250k), basic investing costs as low as (or lower than) Vanguard, and a wider array of products and services, including banking. Plus, while Fidelity requires a $1 million transfer to pay a bonus, others (such as Schwab) will pay a transfer bonus for much smaller portfolios. :beer
This will likely accelerate our plans to do just that. And probably results in yet another $1000 in bonus money from Schwab for our trouble.
And so it goes, And so it goes, And so it goes, And so it goes, But where it's goin' no one knows
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Doom&Gloom »

PersonalFinanceJam wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:17 pm
jeffyscott wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:27 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Good. Long overdue.

Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
Ah, yes, cheering on Vanguard for imposing new fees and doing so with less than 60 days notice. Though there's been no notification at all here. Maybe like taking away secure messaging, Vanguard is only testing this new fee on some customers?

How has adding new fees ever been "obviously telegraphed"? All that they have ever "telegraphed" is that the account "may lose some features and functionality".
I rarely agree with Cheez-It Guy but on this I must. I understand none of us knew when or what form some of these measures would take but I find it hard to argue that it wasn't clear Vanguard wanted customers to move or there wouldn't be repercussions for staying put. The feature being lost in this case is free access to a dead end platform.
Yep. If it came as a surprise, somebody was not paying attention. There will almost certainly be other measures to come.
Kookaburra
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Kookaburra »

Does this fee apply to vanguard 401(k) plans administered by Ascensus?
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

jeffyscott wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:27 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Good. Long overdue.

Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
Ah, yes, cheering on Vanguard for imposing new fees and doing so with less than 60 days notice. Though there's been no notification at all here. Maybe like taking away secure messaging, Vanguard is only testing this new fee on some customers?

How has adding new fees ever been "obviously telegraphed"? All that they have ever "telegraphed" is that the account "may lose some features and functionality".
By obviously telegraphed, I meant Vanguard's repeatedly hinted and stated desire to retire the mutual-fund only platform for literally years -- nearly a decade -- so that they can dedicate limited support resources to a single platform going forward. Asking nicely and gently reminding people clearly wasn't getting it done at high enough levels. Many folks thought they could just stay on a doomed platform because they wanted to or for whatever nit-picky reasons they had. I'm certainly willing to concede that there are unanswered questions and people for whom this will be quite problematic (those who can't use a brokerage account for employment reasons or don't want to submit to monitoring), and I truly don't rejoice or cheer that so many are perturbed by this. But don't act surprised and indignant. The corporate history of Vanguard is quite transparent with regard to ruthless cost-cutting. If the old platform is increasing their costs (which it is), they have to find a way to "motivate" the stragglers. You can frame it as imposition of new fees and not be technically wrong, but it's with a goal of spurring a specific reasonable action, and in the vast majority of cases, they DO give you an easy way to avoid the fees -- just transition your account. Or leave. Either way, they won't really care.

Since I plan to stay for now and have been on the brokerage platform for many years, I welcome the progress this action will drive toward the needed outcome.
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