Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

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ramram22
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Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by ramram22 »

Sure, the market is good now and saving and investing has been very profitable. But what about the next 10 years when the market is flat or down?

Once you have say $1 million in equities and a paid off house, do you really want to work until you have $3 million in equities so you can safely draw down 3% or 4% per year? Considering likely prospective returns, it’s probably going to take a lot more sweat equity to do that going forward. Would it be so terrible to quit your job once you have a paid off house and $1 million and run a simple business until you’re 75? I personally own an online business that I can run from anywhere and could scale it down to work not more than 1 hour/day and still earn at least $60K/year.

Alternatively, you could run something like a gas station or a Subway franchise that is five minutes from your house. Obviously exact incomes vary with location but from some cursory research, a gas station can earn $50K or $60K per year and a Subway franchise can earn $40K/year if you hire a manager to run it (more if you’re an owner/operator but the point is you’re retired). For someone smart enough to save $1 million relatively early in life, you can figure out how to get systems in place so these franchises run themselves with minimal effort on your part.

$60K/year is the income from $2 million at a 3% withdrawal rate. If you can earn $60 K/year working 1 hour/day — and be able to “retire” much earlier — that seems far preferable to slaving away until complete retirement. I would much rather do that and just have my $1 million keep doubling every 7 to 10 years until I *really* need/want it. Heck, in my case, I’ll probably run my business one hour/day until the day I die or am too sick to do so.

Anyone else have plans to do something similar? Why is this not more discussed in these types of forums?
bogcir
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by bogcir »

Being able to earn $60k/year essentially passively is a relatively rare thing. So, it's not really something that most people expect to be able to do.

The main risk is the stability of that income. If you have a $60k/yr job at a large corporation, your income is reasonably steady. Most people who run their own online business are subject to fluctuations depending on market circumstances and competition. You just don't know how long it'll last. so it comes down to your risk tolerance. But if you feel like your online business is stable, then there's no reason not to pursue that.

Meanwhile, running a gas station or Subway sounds awful to me. Running those sort of small businesses tend to be very time-consuming and not something I'd want to do in "retirement". Francises running themselves I don't believe is as easy to find as you say.

I personally run a lucrative business and don't expect to follow a traditional retirement. I'm just planning on phasing out my involvement over time, making sure things are in place for it to continue. That said, I've also saved enough for a traditional retirement so if the business does tank, I don't have to go back to work.
Last edited by bogcir on Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Luckywon
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Luckywon »

ramram22 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:06 am Why is this not more discussed in these types of forums?
Probably because most would not agree with your premises.

In 2020 the average wage for a full time employee in the U.S. was $71k. The assertion that one can easily earn $60k/year working 1 hour a day will sound like fiction to most people. As will the assertion that running a gas station or Subway franchise involves minimal effort.
JBTX
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by JBTX »

I'd much rather do occasional or part time consulting work than run a subway or gas station.

If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in.
boogiehead
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by boogiehead »

ramram22 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:06 am Sure, the market is good now and saving and investing has been very profitable. But what about the next 10 years when the market is flat or down?

Once you have say $1 million in equities and a paid off house, do you really want to work until you have $3 million in equities so you can safely draw down 3% or 4% per year? Considering likely prospective returns, it’s probably going to take a lot more sweat equity to do that going forward. Would it be so terrible to quit your job once you have a paid off house and $1 million and run a simple business until you’re 75? I personally own an online business that I can run from anywhere and could scale it down to work not more than 1 hour/day and still earn at least $60K/year.

Alternatively, you could run something like a gas station or a Subway franchise that is five minutes from your house. Obviously exact incomes vary with location but from some cursory research, a gas station can earn $50K or $60K per year and a Subway franchise can earn $40K/year if you hire a manager to run it (more if you’re an owner/operator but the point is you’re retired). For someone smart enough to save $1 million relatively early in life, you can figure out how to get systems in place so these franchises run themselves with minimal effort on your part.

$60K/year is the income from $2 million at a 3% withdrawal rate. If you can earn $60 K/year working 1 hour/day — and be able to “retire” much earlier — that seems far preferable to slaving away until complete retirement. I would much rather do that and just have my $1 million keep doubling every 7 to 10 years until I *really* need/want it. Heck, in my case, I’ll probably run my business one hour/day until the day I die or am too sick to do so.

Anyone else have plans to do something similar? Why is this not more discussed in these types of forums?
First of all there is no such thing as a "simple" business... second to start a business/franchise it takes capital (anywhere from at least 250k - 1million) and you'll be lucky to start making a profit after 2-3 years. Also your examples of gas station/subway are both dying businesses :D
gips
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by gips »

i have a friend who purchased a well known sandwich franchise, less than a year later went out of business. as someone who started and sold a business, i’d suggest you’re suffering from confirmation bias.
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Orangutan
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Orangutan »

.......
Last edited by Orangutan on Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mrspock
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by mrspock »

Here's the thing.... in my field tech the folks who manage to get those cushy high paying "part-time" gigs are the ones who....you guessed it: walked away and "retired". They then got offers on their terms to work very few hours for relatively high pay as consultants or advisors to a startups.

In order to put themselves in this position, they had to FIRE and be willing and able to walk away from everything. At that point, the tables were turned and companies had to come to the table with offers they ordinarily wouldn't have to entice them to come back even part-time. I sincerely doubt they even have to participate in "performance reviews" -- one of the more stressful parts of tech jobs.

So it's something of a paradox: to get the sweet gigs you need the financial position to not need those gigs in the first place. Which is why these folks get such outsized offers for part time/advisory work, the inherent price on their time is extremely high, as is their skill, experience and knowledge (which is how they accumulated such wealth in tech).
AquaBliss
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by AquaBliss »

This sounds like an awful idea. I can just imagine me spending my $1M that took me 25yrs to build, a save and invest into a Subway then 1yr later someone opens a Chipotle next door and all of a sudden I get no business and have to close my franchise. I’ll have no time left to rebuild my $1M.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

A gas station is a capital intensive business. The idea of “oh, I’ll just go open a gas station with no capital or actual business experience in operating a cash business with huge regulatory and environmental compliance requirements is a “pipe dream”. I worked in one so I know first hand what’s involved there besides the time commitment. The real money comes when you own a string of gas stations or if you have a repair business on site. The issue today is most people have other options that reduce the opportunities for repair services which generate the highest profit margins, namely leasing new cars or buying new. Why do people choose to lease besides having a new car? Some do it to avoid being scammed by unscrupulous mechanics who scam them or try to.
Last edited by Grt2bOutdoors on Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

AquaBliss wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:22 am This sounds like an awful idea. I can just imagine me spending my $1M that took me 25yrs to build, a save and invest into a Subway then 1yr later someone opens a Chipotle next door and all of a sudden I get no business and have to close my franchise. I’ll have no time left to rebuild my $1M.
Agree. Try it with a gas station, tank springs a leak, you are on the hook for hundreds of thousands in repairs, fines and loss of income. You know the saying about lighting money on fire? Go open a gas station and watch how fast your capital dries up should any of a few things happen that involves the EPA.
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dboeger1
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by dboeger1 »

I agree that these options should be discussed more, but I disagree that the options you listed are so easy. If generating $60k from a side hustle web site was so easy, everyone would do it. The fact of the matter is that through some combination of luck, skill, knowledge, foresight, connections, investment, and/or hard work, you were fortunate enough to build a successful online business. That does not mean everybody in the world can just register for a domain and suddenly be making money online. Having grown up with a restaurateur for a father, I can tell you from experience that the food service industry is one of the last industries you want to be in to live a relaxed lifestyle. In fact, the restaurant business is known for chewing up and spitting out people who transition from other high-stress fields thinking it can't be any more difficult. My father was pretty well connected in our small town when I was growing up due to his successful restaurant, so he knew all the local politicians, police officers, firefighters, construction workers, etc. Many of them saw what looked like incredible wealth on the outside based on our large home, nice cars, well-educated children, etc., and thought they would try their hand at the restaurant business. Literally every single one failed miserably with a new appreciation and respect for the work. My father would trade stories with police officers who had spent careers watching people die, and they were brought to tears by the work it took to run restaurants. Many successful people in the restaurant business work >100-hour weeks and feel like they're barely hanging on at all times. You say many immigrants succeed in restaurants, and that's true to an extent, but you may be failing to account for the extensive use of free to illegally underpaid labor from family and friends. Most immigrant restaurateurs employ their children for years, and even if they don't, their form of "babysitting" is often to just have the kids stay in the back office for most of the day. I spent many a weekend doing homework and playing GameBoy in my father's restaurant growing up. Maybe, just maybe, running an established fast food franchise with mostly repeatable processes might be able to cut down on some of the overtime, but I doubt it. Have you ever thought about what it takes just to clean a restaurant? If you want to keep a restaurant even remotely presentable, it requires staying after hours and manually hand-scrubbing countless surfaces. Then there are the books, the order management, the shift schedules, etc. Don't let restaurants open from lunch to dinner fool you into thinking they're not full-time jobs. Those places are 2 full-time jobs in 1, at least. The only royalty in the restaurant business are those celebrity chefs you see on TV that license their name out to a bunch of restaurants they rarely ever step foot in. Unless you're Gordon Ramsey, you're going to be doing a lot of manual labor in a hot kitchen, because hiring good people just to take care of all the extra scrubbing gets expensive. Say what you will about the celebrity chefs, but most of them put in their dues and then some for many years. Even the owners/investors often get roped into the management and having to cover sudden expenses just to keep their businesses afloat. And forget about if anything happens like a health crisis. My father got forced out of the restaurant business after my mother got cancer. He tried to get back in years later, and failed miserably, despite some 20 years of success. The moral of the story is, absolutely do not underestimate the work of running a restaurant. It is not compatible with anything resembling a retirement lifestyle, at least not if you want to make a profit. I suppose one could try running one part-time for fun, but now we're talking part-time Uber driver levels of money, which is not exactly $60k annually for 1 hour per week.

I don't know that a food truck or a small stand would necessarily be easy work, but I think they're a much more condensed version of the restaurant business that could realistically be done as a sort of semi-retirement plan for many people. I doubt the money is that great though, and there's still significant capital investment required, so expect to work a couple of extra years to fund startup costs. When all is said and done, it's often just more optimal to continue working a corporate job until one has enough. Honestly, I think people could do a whole lot worse than get into trades as a sort of second career. The licensing and equipment costs don't have to be that high, assuming you don't get into really specialized jobs requiring high-end equipment, and the earning potential is pretty good with the ability to scale up or down work as desired. Maybe I'm underestimating the difficulty of plumbing or electrical work like people tend to underestimate restaurant work, but I think it's much more viable to be your own boss and make decent money with those jobs than it is with many others. For the most part, earning money is going to be hard work regardless, so the key is to pick something enjoyable that fits the lifestyle one desires, hopefully without risking the annihilation of the nest egg that was used to justify making the leap in the first place.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Shallowpockets »

My $1 million increases greater than 60k a year. Why would I want to work one hour a day? Nope, now it is let my money work for me.
Subway, gas station. Those are types of jobs I had back when I was a teen. Don’t want to go full circle on such things.
Tom_T
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Tom_T »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:24 am A gas station is a capital intensive business. The idea of “oh, I’ll just go open a gas station with no capital or actual business experience in operating a cash business with huge regulatory and environmental compliance requirements is a “pipe dream”. I worked in one so I know first hand what’s involved there besides the time commitment.
Also: there were quite a few small gas stations near me here in central New Jersey. And they are rapidly being replaced by gigantic Costco and Wawa and Quick Chek gas stations which have 20 pumps and the lowest gas prices. I've even seen Exxon stations close up because the mega stations are taking most of the business.
59Gibson
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by 59Gibson »

Can I work 2 hrs/ day for 120k/ yr for this biz?
johnny
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by johnny »

Work is a good thing, and part time work seems to be a fit for us as we get older. However, a couple of things to keep in mind before taking this path:

Starting a business is hard and takes energy and dedication that may not be available to you if you are in slow down mode

Even as an hourly employee, your boss is going to try to get more than you want to give. DW, semi retired, constantly finds her part time services job (to do it well) requires more than her employer is willing to pay for. And I am constantly getting ask to overextend with my part time teaching gig.

It's pretty difficult to piece together a "half job", work half time, and actually make half of the income that you're used to receiving. Best to work full time at something, perhaps a lower pace organization, until you cross the FI finish line. Then experiment.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by dziuniek »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:27 am
AquaBliss wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:22 am This sounds like an awful idea. I can just imagine me spending my $1M that took me 25yrs to build, a save and invest into a Subway then 1yr later someone opens a Chipotle next door and all of a sudden I get no business and have to close my franchise. I’ll have no time left to rebuild my $1M.
Agree. Try it with a gas station, tank springs a leak, you are on the hook for hundreds of thousands in repairs, fines and loss of income. You know the saying about lighting money on fire? Go open a gas station and watch how fast your capital dries up should any of a few things happen that involves the EPA.
Oh the EPA... and let's not forget the accompanying state agencies + town throwing the book at you as well.

A friend fo mine bought an old factory/warehouse to start his millwork shop.

He got a great deal on the building where essentailly teh old owner wanted to get rid of it + the town was in the process of buying it - if need be.

Purchase price = $250k.
Environmental Clean=up = $700k quote approx.

:)
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Wanderingwheelz
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

How much money do you think could be earned by running a YouTube video showing people how to make $60,000 from an hour of work per week?

I feel like you’re missing an opportunity to at least quadruple your income by adding 5 to 10 more minutes of work each week.

If you filmed your videos from your Subway or your Chevron, or better yet your Subway/Chevron and you had the manager film the videos for you since, let’s be honest, he probably doesn’t have a ton of things to keep him busy and you’re paying him pretty good, then that would add another $100,000+ per year. And you don’t even have to lift a finger. (You just have to hope the manager doesn’t quit to start working an hour a week for himself to make $60,000 once he knows your secret.)

I’ve owned a business, but retired at 49 (COMPLETELY), but one never stops thinking of all the possibilities! I will say this.. I’d happily unretire for a $1,153.84/hr job though. I’d probably even try to find time to work two hours a week.
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dziuniek
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by dziuniek »

If you can make $60k / hour of work per day / year... sign me up for 12 hr shifts please.
I'll be retired so quick I'll never need a part-time gig.
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SuperTrooper87
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by SuperTrooper87 »

JBTX wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am I'd much rather do occasional or part time consulting work than run a subway or gas station.

If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Tom_T »

SuperTrooper87 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:35 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am I'd much rather do occasional or part time consulting work than run a subway or gas station.

If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in.
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LOL... I don't think I, personally, would make much money there!
SuperTrooper87
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by SuperTrooper87 »

Tom_T wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:59 am
SuperTrooper87 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:35 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am I'd much rather do occasional or part time consulting work than run a subway or gas station.

If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in.
Onlyfans?
LOL... I don't think I, personally, would make much money there!
Likewise - but I’m struggling to wrap my brain around many other jobs that fit this pay / invested time haha
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by stoptothink »

dboeger1 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 am I agree that these options should be discussed more, but I disagree that the options you listed are so easy. If generating $60k from a side hustle web site was so easy, everyone would do it. The fact of the matter is that through some combination of luck, skill, knowledge, foresight, connections, investment, and/or hard work, you were fortunate enough to build a successful online business. That does not mean everybody in the world can just register for a domain and suddenly be making money online. Having grown up with a restaurateur for a father, I can tell you from experience that the food service industry is one of the last industries you want to be in to live a relaxed lifestyle. In fact, the restaurant business is known for chewing up and spitting out people who transition from other high-stress fields thinking it can't be any more difficult. My father was pretty well connected in our small town when I was growing up due to his successful restaurant, so he knew all the local politicians, police officers, firefighters, construction workers, etc. Many of them saw what looked like incredible wealth on the outside based on our large home, nice cars, well-educated children, etc., and thought they would try their hand at the restaurant business. Literally every single one failed miserably with a new appreciation and respect for the work. My father would trade stories with police officers who had spent careers watching people die, and they were brought to tears by the work it took to run restaurants. Many successful people in the restaurant business work >100-hour weeks and feel like they're barely hanging on at all times. You say many immigrants succeed in restaurants, and that's true to an extent, but you may be failing to account for the extensive use of free to illegally underpaid labor from family and friends. Most immigrant restaurateurs employ their children for years, and even if they don't, their form of "babysitting" is often to just have the kids stay in the back office for most of the day. I spent many a weekend doing homework and playing GameBoy in my father's restaurant growing up. Maybe, just maybe, running an established fast food franchise with mostly repeatable processes might be able to cut down on some of the overtime, but I doubt it. Have you ever thought about what it takes just to clean a restaurant? If you want to keep a restaurant even remotely presentable, it requires staying after hours and manually hand-scrubbing countless surfaces. Then there are the books, the order management, the shift schedules, etc. Don't let restaurants open from lunch to dinner fool you into thinking they're not full-time jobs. Those places are 2 full-time jobs in 1, at least. The only royalty in the restaurant business are those celebrity chefs you see on TV that license their name out to a bunch of restaurants they rarely ever step foot in. Unless you're Gordon Ramsey, you're going to be doing a lot of manual labor in a hot kitchen, because hiring good people just to take care of all the extra scrubbing gets expensive. Say what you will about the celebrity chefs, but most of them put in their dues and then some for many years. Even the owners/investors often get roped into the management and having to cover sudden expenses just to keep their businesses afloat. And forget about if anything happens like a health crisis. My father got forced out of the restaurant business after my mother got cancer. He tried to get back in years later, and failed miserably, despite some 20 years of success. The moral of the story is, absolutely do not underestimate the work of running a restaurant. It is not compatible with anything resembling a retirement lifestyle, at least not if you want to make a profit. I suppose one could try running one part-time for fun, but now we're talking part-time Uber driver levels of money, which is not exactly $60k annually for 1 hour per week.

I don't know that a food truck or a small stand would necessarily be easy work, but I think they're a much more condensed version of the restaurant business that could realistically be done as a sort of semi-retirement plan for many people. I doubt the money is that great though, and there's still significant capital investment required, so expect to work a couple of extra years to fund startup costs. When all is said and done, it's often just more optimal to continue working a corporate job until one has enough. Honestly, I think people could do a whole lot worse than get into trades as a sort of second career. The licensing and equipment costs don't have to be that high, assuming you don't get into really specialized jobs requiring high-end equipment, and the earning potential is pretty good with the ability to scale up or down work as desired. Maybe I'm underestimating the difficulty of plumbing or electrical work like people tend to underestimate restaurant work, but I think it's much more viable to be your own boss and make decent money with those jobs than it is with many others. For the most part, earning money is going to be hard work regardless, so the key is to pick something enjoyable that fits the lifestyle one desires, hopefully without risking the annihilation of the nest egg that was used to justify making the leap in the first place.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by ScubaHogg »

ramram22 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:06 am If you can earn $60 K/year working 1 hour/day — and be able to “retire” much earlier — that seems far preferable to slaving away until complete retirement.
That sound like a great gig if you can get it, but safe to say 99% of people do not have this option. I mean, it’s not as good as working 30 min/day for $120k/year, but still pretty good!

😜
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by flyingcows »

Unless it’s a passion of yours, starting and running a small business is WAY more work, stress, risk and in the majority of cases for much less net pay than just being a rank and file worker at any random large company in the USA. The sky is the limit as a business owner, but if you not pushing for that life would be much easier just collecting a paycheck
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fortunefavored
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by fortunefavored »

I watched an uncle spend his entire life starting and failing businesses. I think by the time he died (effectively broke) he had gone personally bankrupt 3 times (due to funding his businesses) and professionally bankrupt I've no idea how many times.

He was very smart and some of his businesses did very well for years at a time.. then would collapse for various reasons (some external, some internal.) Your online business could be similar. It could go away instantly with changes in Amazon policies, government tariffs, or shipping costs from China (I assume it is a drop shipping business, because that's the typical "online business" these days.)

I'd say 60 to 100 hours/week is far more typical of a small business than 1 hour. At 1 hour, you're providing capital and nothing else - maybe you could take 10% of that $60K/year while someone else runs it. But then you're risking all that capital with no direct control of the success.
retiringwhen
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by retiringwhen »

dziuniek wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:17 am Oh the EPA... and let's not forget the accompanying state agencies + town throwing the book at you as well.
My son is a poet and has published books through amazon. His annual take is a solid 3 digits :beer

Last night he got a letter from the NJ Department of Labor with reporting requirements related to unemployment insurance and his relationship with Amazon! 90 minutes down the drain finding old tax returns and filling out a ridiculous form that had a 10 day turnaround requirement!

Just think what it would take to run a Subway Sandwiches.

Just wait until the local county finds out he never registered the business because the NJ Dept of Labor reports that fact to his County Clerk.

BTW, we made it fun, he and I tried to come up with the funniest truthful answers we could muster (specialized supplies and tools required to perform job? Thesaurus). Hopefully the bureaucrat enjoys our efforts.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by JBTX »

SuperTrooper87 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:35 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am I'd much rather do occasional or part time consulting work than run a subway or gas station.

If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in.
Onlyfans?
:idea:
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by whodidntante »

I don't expect to ever stop working in the sense that I have zero earned income, at least not until my health fails. Financial independence is quite useful, however.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by JoeRetire »

retiringwhen wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:01 amHopefully the bureaucrat enjoys our efforts.
Bureaucrats are well known for their great sense of humor.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by pizzy »

If you can earn $60 K/year working 1 hour/day
Your premise falls flat when you don't realize the absurdity of this comment.
am
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by am »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:12 am
dboeger1 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 am I agree that these options should be discussed more, but I disagree that the options you listed are so easy. If generating $60k from a side hustle web site was so easy, everyone would do it. The fact of the matter is that through some combination of luck, skill, knowledge, foresight, connections, investment, and/or hard work, you were fortunate enough to build a successful online business. That does not mean everybody in the world can just register for a domain and suddenly be making money online. Having grown up with a restaurateur for a father, I can tell you from experience that the food service industry is one of the last industries you want to be in to live a relaxed lifestyle. In fact, the restaurant business is known for chewing up and spitting out people who transition from other high-stress fields thinking it can't be any more difficult. My father was pretty well connected in our small town when I was growing up due to his successful restaurant, so he knew all the local politicians, police officers, firefighters, construction workers, etc. Many of them saw what looked like incredible wealth on the outside based on our large home, nice cars, well-educated children, etc., and thought they would try their hand at the restaurant business. Literally every single one failed miserably with a new appreciation and respect for the work. My father would trade stories with police officers who had spent careers watching people die, and they were brought to tears by the work it took to run restaurants. Many successful people in the restaurant business work >100-hour weeks and feel like they're barely hanging on at all times. You say many immigrants succeed in restaurants, and that's true to an extent, but you may be failing to account for the extensive use of free to illegally underpaid labor from family and friends. Most immigrant restaurateurs employ their children for years, and even if they don't, their form of "babysitting" is often to just have the kids stay in the back office for most of the day. I spent many a weekend doing homework and playing GameBoy in my father's restaurant growing up. Maybe, just maybe, running an established fast food franchise with mostly repeatable processes might be able to cut down on some of the overtime, but I doubt it. Have you ever thought about what it takes just to clean a restaurant? If you want to keep a restaurant even remotely presentable, it requires staying after hours and manually hand-scrubbing countless surfaces. Then there are the books, the order management, the shift schedules, etc. Don't let restaurants open from lunch to dinner fool you into thinking they're not full-time jobs. Those places are 2 full-time jobs in 1, at least. The only royalty in the restaurant business are those celebrity chefs you see on TV that license their name out to a bunch of restaurants they rarely ever step foot in. Unless you're Gordon Ramsey, you're going to be doing a lot of manual labor in a hot kitchen, because hiring good people just to take care of all the extra scrubbing gets expensive. Say what you will about the celebrity chefs, but most of them put in their dues and then some for many years. Even the owners/investors often get roped into the management and having to cover sudden expenses just to keep their businesses afloat. And forget about if anything happens like a health crisis. My father got forced out of the restaurant business after my mother got cancer. He tried to get back in years later, and failed miserably, despite some 20 years of success. The moral of the story is, absolutely do not underestimate the work of running a restaurant. It is not compatible with anything resembling a retirement lifestyle, at least not if you want to make a profit. I suppose one could try running one part-time for fun, but now we're talking part-time Uber driver levels of money, which is not exactly $60k annually for 1 hour per week.

I don't know that a food truck or a small stand would necessarily be easy work, but I think they're a much more condensed version of the restaurant business that could realistically be done as a sort of semi-retirement plan for many people. I doubt the money is that great though, and there's still significant capital investment required, so expect to work a couple of extra years to fund startup costs. When all is said and done, it's often just more optimal to continue working a corporate job until one has enough. Honestly, I think people could do a whole lot worse than get into trades as a sort of second career. The licensing and equipment costs don't have to be that high, assuming you don't get into really specialized jobs requiring high-end equipment, and the earning potential is pretty good with the ability to scale up or down work as desired. Maybe I'm underestimating the difficulty of plumbing or electrical work like people tend to underestimate restaurant work, but I think it's much more viable to be your own boss and make decent money with those jobs than it is with many others. For the most part, earning money is going to be hard work regardless, so the key is to pick something enjoyable that fits the lifestyle one desires, hopefully without risking the annihilation of the nest egg that was used to justify making the leap in the first place.
You write the longest posts on this board, BY FAR...but they are usually worth reading :sharebeer
I’d like to read that but it’s so dense and without paragraphs that I didn’t have the patience. :happy Can someone give me a short summary?
wrongfunds
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by wrongfunds »

Tom_T wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:59 am
SuperTrooper87 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:35 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am I'd much rather do occasional or part time consulting work than run a subway or gas station.

If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in.
Onlyfans?
LOL... I don't think I, personally, would make much money there!
Can you explain?
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JoMoney
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by JoMoney »

I've seen plenty of restaurants and gas stations go out of business.
There is a concentrated risk which sometimes works out, but when it doesn't is catastrophic to your entire investment.
Hiring staff and competent "management" to run a business for you is not an easy task.
For some entrepreneurial types that want to be actively involved this can work out, and the world needs these people, it's just not me. I'd rather have a completely passive investment and then complain on here about the compensation packages the boards and management are given and how my mutual fund is voting for them :? :wink:

That said, I think work is good, and it's good to be doing SOMETHING. But I want to do they type of work I WANT TO DO.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Jags4186
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Jags4186 »

Ah yes, the retirement dream, pump smelly gas in the sweltering heat or frigid cold and then go slap some ham onto crappy chemical tasting bread and then squeeze out some Mayo from a plastic bottle that hasn’t been cleaned in 7 years.
mptfan
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by mptfan »

ramram22 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:06 amWould it be so terrible to quit your job once you have a paid off house and $1 million and run a simple business until you’re 75?

Alternatively, you could run something like a gas station or a Subway franchise that is five minutes from your house.
Your concept of complete retirement is very different than mine. If you are working at a business or a job, even if you work only one hour a day, then you are not completely retired, it's as simple as that.
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Mullins
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Mullins »

It wouldn't make sense for me to work at anything else other than what I used to do because I can make as much as a doctor even working part time IF I go back to what I was doing before I retired. But then I wouldn't be retired.

Being completely retired means being completely free from work and all its tentacles, which means, means not being roused from sleep, not having made to leave the house, or commute in lousy weather... Not having any work related obligations, impositions, responsibilities, problems or dealing with the public. That doesn't feel overrated to me.
Benbo
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Benbo »

am wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:19 am
I’d like to read that but it’s so dense and without paragraphs that I didn’t have the patience. :happy Can someone give me a short summary?
Restaurants are hard work. Most of them go out of business.
Escapevelocity
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Escapevelocity »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:12 am
You write the longest posts on this board, BY FAR...but they are usually worth reading :sharebeer

For me, the lack of paragraphs was a non-starter to read all that. I'll gladly read a 3,000 word post if it's organized into decent paragraph structure. The thought of reading 30 sentences with no paragraph breaks in between gives me a headache.
RoadagentMN
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by RoadagentMN »

Escapevelocity wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:23 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:12 am
You write the longest posts on this board, BY FAR...but they are usually worth reading :sharebeer

For me, the lack of paragraphs was a non-starter to read all that. I'll gladly read a 3,000 word post if it's organized into decent paragraph structure. The thought of reading 30 sentences with no paragraph breaks in between gives me a headache.
Aka, Wall of Text lol
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Garco
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Garco »

The OP appears to assume that the only reason why people work is to make money. Even if it's the main reason, that doesn't apply to most people I know. Most are motivated not just by material needs but also be a desire to create, to interact with others, to serve others -- or to be productive of something. They typically switch careers a few times. Things may happen that affect their ability to work, their opportunities, or their need to work (having a family can do that -- among other things consider the costs of education).

I worked until age 70 and never regretted that. I liked my work; I produced things of value. When I retired I never looked back, but also didn't need to work because I had Social Security and a large pension fund accumulated over 40 years. My kids have done very well with the educations that we paid for.
Triple digit golfer
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Triple digit golfer »

I basically read your post as "Why would you retire if you can make $60k a year working an hour a day?"

The answer is that most people probably wouldn't, if they either needed the $60k, enjoyed what they were doing, or both.

It's a pretty tone-deaf question. Most people aren't going to make $60k a year working an hour a day.

Gas stations and restaurant franchises are individual businesses and come with enormous risk.
KineticSync
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by KineticSync »

One of my major goals for retirement, maybe the biggie, is control over my time. I haven't yet found any part-time gig, except maybe some kind of craft, that doesn't ultimately end up with my time being regimented or under someone else's control.
andypanda
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by andypanda »

"If there are any other 1 hr a day $60k / year opportunities let me know, I'm all in."

Not me. Happily retired since 2012.

Let's see, do I want to take the boat out fishing? Set the new mailbox post in concrete now that I have the 24" deep hole dug? Drive into town and spray the black lacquer finish coats on the kids' front porch railings? (That needs to wait until it's under 90*F and 65% humidity. I've been over it all with an angle grinder and sanding sponges, treated it with Ospho phosphoric acid to neutralize the rust, and sprayed two coats of Rustoleum professional red primer on it already, so I'm in no hurry to screw it up now by getting in a hurry. The primer will last for at least 6 years without a top coat - I have an 8' x 10' trash trailer to prove it.)

I know, I'll finish putting away my surf fishing gear, recovery gear and beach chairs and stuff and then maybe wash the outside of the truck. I did the engine and the undercarriage after we got back Sunday from a week at the beach.

Work? Who has time to work?

But first I need to get ready for the grandson's 6th birthday Thursday.
BogleFan510
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by BogleFan510 »

No. Very happy with our earning, savings choices, portfolio, and retired status.
manuvns
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by manuvns »

gips wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 am i have a friend who purchased a well known sandwich franchise, less than a year later went out of business. as someone who started and sold a business, i’d suggest you’re suffering from confirmation bias.
probably right and it's hard to find people to work for 9-11$ . Rather do something that pays little and keeps you busy
Last edited by manuvns on Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks!
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Will do good
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Will do good »

am wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:19 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:12 am
dboeger1 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 am
I agree that these options should be discussed more, but I disagree that the options you listed are so easy. If generating $60k from a side hustle web site was so easy, everyone would do it. The fact of the matter is that through some combination of luck, skill, knowledge, foresight, connections, investment, and/or hard work, you were fortunate enough to build a successful online business. That does not mean everybody in the world can just register for a domain and suddenly be making money online.

Having grown up with a restaurateur for a father, I can tell you from experience that the food service industry is one of the last industries you want to be in to live a relaxed lifestyle. In fact, the restaurant business is known for chewing up and spitting out people who transition from other high-stress fields thinking it can't be any more difficult.

My father was pretty well connected in our small town when I was growing up due to his successful restaurant, so he knew all the local politicians, police officers, firefighters, construction workers, etc. Many of them saw what looked like incredible wealth on the outside based on our large home, nice cars, well-educated children, etc., and thought they would try their hand at the restaurant business. Literally every single one failed miserably with a new appreciation and respect for the work.

My father would trade stories with police officers who had spent careers watching people die, and they were brought to tears by the work it took to run restaurants. Many successful people in the restaurant business work >100-hour weeks and feel like they're barely hanging on at all times. You say many immigrants succeed in restaurants, and that's true to an extent, but you may be failing to account for the extensive use of free to illegally underpaid labor from family and friends.

Most immigrant restaurateurs employ their children for years, and even if they don't, their form of "babysitting" is often to just have the kids stay in the back office for most of the day. I spent many a weekend doing homework and playing GameBoy in my father's restaurant growing up. Maybe, just maybe, running an established fast food franchise with mostly repeatable processes might be able to cut down on some of the overtime, but I doubt it.

Have you ever thought about what it takes just to clean a restaurant? If you want to keep a restaurant even remotely presentable, it requires staying after hours and manually hand-scrubbing countless surfaces. Then there are the books, the order management, the shift schedules, etc. Don't let restaurants open from lunch to dinner fool you into thinking they're not full-time jobs. Those places are 2 full-time jobs in 1, at least.

The only royalty in the restaurant business are those celebrity chefs you see on TV that license their name out to a bunch of restaurants they rarely ever step foot in. Unless you're Gordon Ramsey, you're going to be doing a lot of manual labor in a hot kitchen, because hiring good people just to take care of all the extra scrubbing gets expensive. Say what you will about the celebrity chefs, but most of them put in their dues and then some for many years. Even the owners/investors often get roped into the management and having to cover sudden expenses just to keep their businesses afloat.

And forget about if anything happens like a health crisis. My father got forced out of the restaurant business after my mother got cancer. He tried to get back in years later, and failed miserably, despite some 20 years of success. The moral of the story is, absolutely do not underestimate the work of running a restaurant. It is not compatible with anything resembling a retirement lifestyle, at least not if you want to make a profit. I suppose one could try running one part-time for fun, but now we're talking part-time Uber driver levels of money, which is not exactly $60k annually for 1 hour per week.

I don't know that a food truck or a small stand would necessarily be easy work, but I think they're a much more condensed version of the restaurant business that could realistically be done as a sort of semi-retirement plan for many people. I doubt the money is that great though, and there's still significant capital investment required, so expect to work a couple of extra years to fund startup costs.

When all is said and done, it's often just more optimal to continue working a corporate job until one has enough. Honestly, I think people could do a whole lot worse than get into trades as a sort of second career. The licensing and equipment costs don't have to be that high, assuming you don't get into really specialized jobs requiring high-end equipment, and the earning potential is pretty good with the ability to scale up or down work as desired.

Maybe I'm underestimating the difficulty of plumbing or electrical work like people tend to underestimate restaurant work, but I think it's much more viable to be your own boss and make decent money with those jobs than it is with many others.

For the most part, earning money is going to be hard work regardless, so the key is to pick something enjoyable that fits the lifestyle one desires, hopefully without risking the annihilation of the nest egg that was used to justify making the leap in the first place.
You write the longest posts on this board, BY FAR...but they are usually worth reading :sharebeer
I’d like to read that but it’s so dense and without paragraphs that I didn’t have the patience. :happy Can someone give me a short summary?
It's a god read, hope this helps. :D
quantAndHold
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Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by quantAndHold »

I worked terrible jobs like this in high school and college. There’s no way I would buy into one, no matter how few hours someone told me I would have to work at it. Sooner or later, your manager quits and takes all the money out of the bank account, and you’re stuck managing it yourself until you can find another manager.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
Carousel
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Carousel »

andypanda wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:46 am Drive into town and spray the black lacquer finish coats on the kids' front porch railings ...

Work? Who has time to work?

But first I need to get ready for the grandson's 6th birthday Thursday ...
I hope Grandpa gets every bit of the appreciation he deserves!
Carousel
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Is COMPLETE retirement overrated?

Post by Carousel »

Escapevelocity wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:23 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:12 am
For me, the lack of paragraphs was a non-starter to read all that. I'll gladly read a 3,000 word post if it's organized into decent paragraph structure. The thought of reading 30 sentences with no paragraph breaks in between gives me a headache.
Aka, Wall of Text lol
Noooo! Don't discourage dboeger1, I love their posts!
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