S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

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VTI
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S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by VTI »

Is there an ex-US ETF or mutual fund with similar inclusion standards as the S&P 500?

In a three-fund portfolio, this would be the international counterpart to SPY or VOO.
Last edited by VTI on Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
ChinchillaWhiplash
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or a mutual fund?

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash »

Not sure if there is a fund for it, but there is an index https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indic ... /#overview
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cos
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or a mutual fund?

Post by cos »

You should check out the Avantis International Equity ETF (AVDE) and the Avantis Emerging Markets Equity ETF (AVEM). Both use profitability and quality screens similar to those used by the S&P 500, albeit a bit more potent.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or a mutual fund?

Post by BJJ_GUY »

VTI wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:56 pm Is there an ex-US ETF or mutual fund with similar inclusion standards as the S&P 500?

In a three-fund portfolio, this would be the international counterpart to SPY or VOO.
If you want three funds to make up a global equity exposure, it probably makes sense to skip SPY and use SPTM (S&P 1500 in stead of the large cap focused 500). The ETFs look to be the following for US, Developed Markets ex US, and Emerging Markets, respectively.

SPTM
SPDW
SPEM
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VTI
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or a mutual fund?

Post by VTI »

ChinchillaWhiplash wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:58 pm Not sure if there is a fund for it, but there is an index https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indic ... /#overview
Perfect. Thank you. For folks who don't click the link, there's also the S&P 1200 , which is the S&P 500 (US) plus the S&P 700 (ex-US).

From what I can tell, there are no ETFs or mutual funds representing either the S&P 700 or the S&P 1200. There are some sector funds representing slices of the S&P 1200, but that's not what I'm looking for. Alas!
cos wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:13 pm You should check out the Avantis International Equity ETF (AVDE) and the Avantis Emerging Markets Equity ETF (AVEM). Both use profitability and quality screens similar to those used by the S&P 500, albeit a bit more potent.
This is an interesting trail for me to follow. Thank you!
BJJ_GUY wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:37 pm If you want three funds to make up a global equity exposure, it probably makes sense to skip SPY and use SPTM (S&P 1500 in stead of the large cap focused 500). The ETFs look to be the following for US, Developed Markets ex US, and Emerging Markets, respectively.

SPTM
SPDW
SPEM
I appreciate your answer. When I referred to a three-fund portfolio, I was referring to US stocks, ex-US stocks, and bonds.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or a mutual fund?

Post by BJJ_GUY »

VTI wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:55 pm
BJJ_GUY wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:37 pm If you want three funds to make up a global equity exposure, it probably makes sense to skip SPY and use SPTM (S&P 1500 in stead of the large cap focused 500). The ETFs look to be the following for US, Developed Markets ex US, and Emerging Markets, respectively.

SPTM
SPDW
SPEM
I appreciate your answer. When I referred to a three-fund portfolio, I was referring to US stocks, ex-US stocks, and bonds.
Seems this is being made more difficult than needed, unless there is a specific reason you are wedded to the idea that the US exposure needs to be via the S&P 500.

Why not a two fund portfolio where you own global equities (like VT) and a bond fund?

Or switch to any number of ETF providers with a suite of offerings based on more investor friendly index families. Vanguard has options that answer the question you're asking as long as you can move off SPY/VOO. MSCI is licensed by other ETF providers and can also suite your needs.

I do think it's interesting that the most popular index/ETF (SPY) doesn't fit nicely within a broader global suite. Although, I believe the Dow Jones / S&P answer to this conundrum was answered through heavy marketing from Dow Jones for years before the S&P acquisition. They have long pointed out the many flaws with the S&P 500 (or the 1500, and the lack of global consistency as they were mapped), while touting their transparent, consistent methodology and the fact that their Global Equity Index could be easily sliced and diced via the underlying sub-components without any concern for overlapping exposures, mapping confusion, and fear that some combination of sub-indices may be different than intended (including unintended bets due to misuse).
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash »

OP, Wisdom Tree has a new ETF (NTSI) which might fit your needs. Is 90% international by market cap. Looks to have around 400 companies. The 10% left is cash for treasury futures ladder collateral. Gives a 90/60 holding of equities to bonds in one fund. Performance is similar to a 1.5 x leveraged 60/40 portfolio. Has very little traction so far, but it is new. Good thing about it is the ER is around 0.25. I personally have switched some $s over to use this as a core international holding.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by hi_there »

Although S&P 500 has some proprietary selection filters, it ultimately just indexes the largest companies in the US. It would make very little difference to the index whether or not there was a gatekeeper committee. An equivalent ex-US fund with the lowest cost would be anything that tracks MSCI EAFE or other large cap international index.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by Blue456 »

SCHY, would give you top 100 dividend paying international stocks.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash »

Blue456 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:10 pm SCHY, would give you top 100 dividend paying international stocks.
Expense ratio is also a very nice 0.15. One could get a LCV tilt with it for a low expense. Also pretty thinly traded. Hopefully it gains traction
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by Blue456 »

ChinchillaWhiplash wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:01 pm
Blue456 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:10 pm SCHY, would give you top 100 dividend paying international stocks.
Expense ratio is also a very nice 0.15. One could get a LCV tilt with it for a low expense. Also pretty thinly traded. Hopefully it gains traction
Schwab will probably push it on SIP and it will pick up traction.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by HeresJohnny »

What do you think VXUS stands for?

Vanguard Ex-US. :wink:
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by Garco »

VEU might do what you want. International. But hard to say it's "SP500" equivalent.

I own it as VTSNX. Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US.
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by 40 Years' Gatherin's »

Are you a US citizen? If so, why are you even messing around with ex-US?

Nothing is more American than apple pie, Chevrolet & VTSAX :D
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VTI
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by VTI »

HeresJohnny wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm What do you think VXUS stands for?

Vanguard Ex-US. :wink:
For those of us skeptical of international markets, a quasi-index with inclusion criteria similar to the S&P 500 would help ease the anxiety of ex-US investing.

It's disappointing that there are so few international, non-sector S&P funds available to American investors.

(For what it's worth, I hold my nose and invest heavily in a VXUS-equivalent.)
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Re: S&P 500, but ex-US! Is there such an ETF or mutual fund?

Post by redbarn »

VTI wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:42 am For those of us skeptical of international markets, a quasi-index with inclusion criteria similar to the S&P 500 would help ease the anxiety of ex-US investing.

It's disappointing that there are so few international, non-sector S&P funds available to American investors.

(For what it's worth, I hold my nose and invest heavily in a VXUS-equivalent.)
If it's any reassurance, according to the SPIVA scorecards, the percent of US-based international funds that underperform their index benchmark looks very similar to the percent of US large cap equity funds that underperform the S&P 500. Over 20 years, 91% of active US-based active international funds underperform their index benchmark. The fact that US-based international mutual funds that are not subject to foreign investors' home biases and regulatory restrictions can't beat the international index suggests that this space is efficient for all practical purposes.
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