[Vanguard may remove secure messages, members transitioning out of Vanguard]

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jeffyscott
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jeffyscott »

Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions. ― John C. Bogle
mkc
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by mkc »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:59 am
Thanks to a small inheritance (< 2% of investments), I now have a taxable account with Fidelity - a fund transferred in-kind. It's very, very tempting to simply ask Fidelity to transfer everything from Vanguard.

I'm having too much fun deep-diving into Fidelity's fund comparison tools.
Fidelity's Mutual Fund evaluator/search tool has been my go-to for research since 2002 or 2003.
Actin
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Actin »

galawdawg wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:02 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:30 am
egrets wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 am Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks...
I've never had anything but trouble with B of A, starting way back when I had an account at the late lamented Crocker Bank, and B of A did their automatic mortgage payments. One month B of A "ran the tape twice" and deleted the payments twice from all our checking accounts, and refused to undo it since "it will even out next month."
Troubling, how long ago was this? So it was both checking and mortgage with BoA?
I've got an elderly relative who had been with BOA since 1977. He also had investments at Merrill Edge. (Although several of his contemporaries who were also long-term customers but left BOA with complaints about their service and being treated poorly had been suggesting for a few years that he pick another bank). He had several minor issues with them over the past several years but nothing major (like egrets experienced) so he didn't make any changes.

He sold his home a few months ago and I took him by the branch to deposit the closing proceeds (he insisted he didn't want them wired, he wanted a check in hand) which were written on a well-known local law firm's escrow account. Again, he wanted to deposit the check...the whole thing. No withdrawals, no cash back. It took nearly thirty minutes! The drive-through was closed for some reason. So we go inside. First he had to "check-in" with a bank employee holding a tablet standing near the door and "state his business". Then he was directed to another portion of the lobby where he had to "check-in" with a uniformed security guard who looked at his deposit slip and check. Then he was directed to another section of the branch to wait in line while the single teller working carried on a lengthy personal conversation with the customer ahead of us. When he finally got to the teller, she examined the check like it was from Mars and got the manager, who also examined the check, asked a few questions (which were frankly none of her business) and finally authorized the teller to process the deposit. And of course, they placed a seven (7) business day hold on the deposit, making me question why the scrutiny of this deposit by a customer of that bank (and branch) of nearly forty-five years. I could understand it if it was a substantial withdrawal, but a simple "no cash back" deposit?? Ridiculous. :annoyed

My relative is a 2x stroke victim and uses a walker. All that time standing and waiting (they didn't have any chairs anywhere nearby except back in the lobby, which was a different section of the branch) and his annoyance at how he was generally treated and how they handled the deposit led him to decide to close all of his accounts with BOA and Merrill Edge. Now he is at Schwab and very, very pleased.

Personally, DW and I considered Merrill Edge/BOA when we decided to leave Vanguard a few years ago. We made an appointment at the nearest Merrill Edge office and as we live in a rural part of Georgia, had to drive some distance to meet with the advisor (I had quite a few questions and wanted to see how they handled them and see what kind of sales pitches, if any, we might expect if we moved our investments there). We arrived a few minutes early and were asked to have a seat. And we sat...and we sat. As it turns out, the Merrill representative "forgot" about our appointment which we only learned after we had already waited fifteen minutes past our appointment time! The same person who greeted us when we arrived came out to say "sorry, he went to lunch but I just reached him and he said he'd be back in about thirty minutes, can you come back?" :o My reply: "Sorry, no. If this is how you seek to earn the business of a prospective client with a million dollar plus portfolio, I can't imagine the service we'd get if we actually invested with you. Have a nice day. Goodbye." And we left. Never received so much as a call or email from anyone apologizing for our inconvenience.

Obviously, experiences of others may vary widely. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
I stopped using BoA last year after how badly they botched the locked down. Some people waited forever to get to their lockboxes. They still have almost all their physical locations shut down and only two or three people working there. The line is usually out the door. The teller stations at BoA reminds me of the Walmart checkout.

Merrill Lynch is the biggest joke in investing. I've never seen an investing entity be so incompetent on every single level. I had q consultation with one a long time ago. Not only was he late, but I got the feeling I knew way more about investing than he did. I heard BoA is phasing ML out because it's such a clown show
Last edited by Actin on Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
jhd1945
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jhd1945 »

I moved VWELX from Schwab because I could not convert Wellington (VWELX) to Admiral Wellington (VWENX). Schwab said that I could transfer VWELX to Vanguard convert to VWENX, then transfer back and add to the position - although with a purchase fee that now would be $49.95..
So, I just moved most of my portfolio to Vanguard a couple of years ago. Now I am thinking of going back.
EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION
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beyou
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:14 am
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
I think the point is Vanguard the fund manager makes plenty of money to enable them to operate Vanguard the brokerage in some way that remotely resembles Schwab and Fidelity.
All here agree Vanguard’s customer service needs improvement (if you had any interaction with them this year). We know they have huge revenue from the funds (no “zero” funds).

But there is a meaningful to me reason to want to keep using the retail store and not the products only. Because SOME products simply aren’t available outside their own store (store brands). Above I mentioned muni funds as an example and a response was to buy the muni ETF. There is a reason many would buy state specific funds, and there is no Vanguard ETF equivalent. I found ishares similar funds but higher ER. BlackRock rakes in much more in ishares and open end funds than Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab and they have NO CUSTOMER service at all. I wont pay more to ishares to move away from what has recently been poor customer service at Vanguard. Schwab has NO state muni funds. Fido has them but not low fee funds (FTFMX has 0.46 er vs 0.17 or 0.09 in Vanguard investor/admiral shares). ishares equivalent NYF is 0.25 er. In this case, Vanguard is the cheapest, and is not the least customer service (ishares provides none and other brokers pick up the cost of service).

I am using above as an example, there are others.
Also fixed income is mostly NOT index investing. Yes there are some index funds, heavy on ultra low yield US Tsy bonds, which are not of interest to me now. All other funds require investment selection, and Vanguard not only does so cheaply, they are more conservative in their active funds than most others, avoiding poorly rated bonds in the name of yield chasing. So you pay lower fees for active fixed income and get a better product, mostly not ETF so not as portable. Some I can own outside Vanguard but with 90 day holds without trans fees or pay transaction fees at other brokers. Some Admiral fixed income funds simply are not for sale outside Vanguard at all. For someone mostly in equities or ok with BND for fixed income, walk away, you don’t need to put up with this bad customer service. For others who use a broader array of very good Vanguard funds, it is more economical to stay at Vanguard retail brokerage. But we are losing services. For me, I save so much in ER on some funds that paying for TurboTax that they used to give free doesn’t matter to me. I wouldn’t care about secure messaging if they answered the phones promptly and got the right person on the line in some reasonable timeframe.

The main reason I stay is NOT marketing or any memory of the good old days. For now I have a fund
only account which I can’t replicate at fidelity nor ishares nor Schwab. Eventually my reason for fund-only will end (upon retirement). At that point i will transition, and while it would be easier to move, not sure I will. I want my full choice of all admiral funds, and I will have to compromise if the service does not improve in the next year or so. If they man the phones better that would be sufficient for me, but I did use secure messages and it was a convenience. Think I had a sec msg convo once every few years, I can handle most needs from the site features.
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Nate79
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Nate79 »

nisiprius wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:29 am
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
In my case, the unexpressed connecting train of thought was, "if I were to leave Vanguard, would I choose to continue using the same Vanguard funds I use now?" And the answer is: nah, probably not. I sure as heck wouldn't pay a $49.95 transaction fee.* In the past there have been hassles trying to hold Admiral shares of index funds elsewhere. I could hold my nose and learn to live with ETFs, maybe, but one of my important current Vanguard funds isn't available as an ETF.

*At Fidelity and at Schwab.
At your significant asset level you could ask Schwab to waive the transaction fees for the mutual funds you want to buy.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:45 am
nisiprius wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:29 am
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
In my case, the unexpressed connecting train of thought was, "if I were to leave Vanguard, would I choose to continue using the same Vanguard funds I use now?" And the answer is: nah, probably not. I sure as heck wouldn't pay a $49.95 transaction fee.* In the past there have been hassles trying to hold Admiral shares of index funds elsewhere. I could hold my nose and learn to live with ETFs, maybe, but one of my important current Vanguard funds isn't available as an ETF.

*At Fidelity and at Schwab.
At your significant asset level you could ask Schwab to waive the transaction fees for the mutual funds you want to buy.
With $250k or more (and by some reports just $100k or more), Schwab will waive transaction fees on all mutual funds from a single fund family (such as all Vanguard funds).
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
Vanguard Wellesley is only available at Schwab as investor class (VWINX) but is open to all investors. Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) is available at Schwab to those who already hold VWENX in which case they can also invest in additional shares of VWENX (or of course sell existing shares).
lazynovice
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:26 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:14 am
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
I think the point is Vanguard the fund manager makes plenty of money to enable them to operate Vanguard the brokerage in some way that remotely resembles Schwab and Fidelity.
All here agree Vanguard’s customer service needs improvement (if you had any interaction with them this year). We know they have huge revenue from the funds (no “zero” funds).

But there is a meaningful to me reason to want to keep using the retail store and not the products only. Because SOME products simply aren’t available outside their own store (store brands). Above I mentioned muni funds as an example and a response was to buy the muni ETF. There is a reason many would buy state specific funds, and there is no Vanguard ETF equivalent. I found ishares similar funds but higher ER. BlackRock rakes in much more in ishares and open end funds than Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab and they have NO CUSTOMER service at all. I wont pay more to ishares to move away from what has recently been poor customer service at Vanguard. Schwab has NO state muni funds. Fido has them but not low fee funds (FTFMX has 0.46 er vs 0.17 or 0.09 in Vanguard investor/admiral shares). ishares equivalent NYF is 0.25 er. In this case, Vanguard is the cheapest, and is not the least customer service (ishares provides none and other brokers pick up the cost of service).

I am using above as an example, there are others.
Also fixed income is mostly NOT index investing. Yes there are some index funds, heavy on ultra low yield US Tsy bonds, which are not of interest to me now. All other funds require investment selection, and Vanguard not only does so cheaply, they are more conservative in their active funds than most others, avoiding poorly rated bonds in the name of yield chasing. So you pay lower fees for active fixed income and get a better product, mostly not ETF so not as portable. Some I can own outside Vanguard but with 90 day holds without trans fees or pay transaction fees at other brokers. Some Admiral fixed income funds simply are not for sale outside Vanguard at all. For someone mostly in equities or ok with BND for fixed income, walk away, you don’t need to put up with this bad customer service. For others who use a broader array of very good Vanguard funds, it is more economical to stay at Vanguard retail brokerage. But we are losing services. For me, I save so much in ER on some funds that paying for TurboTax that they used to give free doesn’t matter to me. I wouldn’t care about secure messaging if they answered the phones promptly and got the right person on the line in some reasonable timeframe.

The main reason I stay is NOT marketing or any memory of the good old days. For now I have a fund
only account which I can’t replicate at fidelity nor ishares nor Schwab. Eventually my reason for fund-only will end (upon retirement). At that point i will transition, and while it would be easier to move, not sure I will. I want my full choice of all admiral funds, and I will have to compromise if the service does not improve in the next year or so. If they man the phones better that would be sufficient for me, but I did use secure messages and it was a convenience. Think I had a sec msg convo once every few years, I can handle most needs from the site features.
Didn’t you say earlier that the Zero funds were bad because they could not be moved? Can we say Vanguard seems to have a lot of funds that also lock you in to using their services because they can’t be moved elsewhere? It sounds like Vanguard has more than 4? I think we should talk about this more in these threads and warn people not to hold them in taxable accounts like we do the Zero funds. Tax deferred is fine but taxable- no way.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
DividendMickey
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by DividendMickey »

galawdawg wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:54 am
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
Vanguard Wellesley is only available at Schwab as investor class (VWINX) but is open to all investors. Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) is available at Schwab to those who already hold VWENX in which case they can also invest in additional shares of VWENX (or of course sell existing shares).
I posed this question to Fidelity yesterday (via secure email!), but probably should have asked it here. It appears that you can only hold investor shares of Wellesley at Fidelity, correct? I have Admiral shares I would like to keep, and transfer if possible.
lazynovice
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

DividendMickey wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:43 am
galawdawg wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:54 am
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
Vanguard Wellesley is only available at Schwab as investor class (VWINX) but is open to all investors. Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) is available at Schwab to those who already hold VWENX in which case they can also invest in additional shares of VWENX (or of course sell existing shares).
I posed this question to Fidelity yesterday (via secure email!), but probably should have asked it here. It appears that you can only hold investor shares of Wellesley at Fidelity, correct? I have Admiral shares I would like to keep, and transfer if possible.
I don’t think you can buy them there. You might be able to transfer the shares you have but I am not sure. Fidelity has phone reps available 24/7 or you can live chat with them. You can probably ask today and get an answer.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:37 am
beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:05 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:47 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:33 am Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

“There is no free lunch.”
They don’t have the lowest ERs. Their total stock market fund is 2.7x the cost of Fidelity’s. Almost three times as much! Same with the S&P 500 fund. Their S&P 500 fund is double the cost of Schwab’s

Mid cap and small cap? Double Fidelity’s. All right there in the wiki…

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/ETFs_for_Bogleheads

The idea that Vanguard is the low cost leader has just been marketing for several years now.
For a handful of popular funds that Schwab and Fidelity targeted to compete, yes there are cheaper options for those specific index funds. Note that :

As a fund family, Vanguard still has the lowest overall fees across all funds. Most Fidelity funds charge more, a few less, but on average Fido family is more expensive. And if that matters, Schwab isn’t a major fund family at all, they just compete on those popular index and target funds. Schwab has lifestrategy equivalents that are expensive (50bps). Fidelity has many much higher ER funds. Vanguards “expensive” actively managed funds aren’t that expensive. So if one has a simple 3 fund portfolio, all 3 are cheap. If you want anything else not so obvious which is cheapest nor if Schwab would even have equivalents in some cases (Fido will have them but often more costly ER). Not all of us follow 3 fund precisely. And if I want truly simple, lifestrategy, Vanguard wins.
No, not everyone follows the three fund precisely, but if that is not the majority of your portfolio- at least on the equity side, then you aren’t really in the vast majority of this site to which COSTS MATTER as Bogle said. If you are arguing Vanguard doesn’t make as much money as Fidelity, you should back that claim up with some data? Otherwise, meh, marketing. The sheer size of the Vanguard funds tells me they can afford secure messaging and 24/7 support.

As to your Life Strategy statement, what are you comparing? Because Fidelity Four In One is cheaper and has outperformed VASGX.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/fund- ... GX%2CFFNOX

Vanguard is still riding the coattails of Bogle’s reputation. But if you look at facts, which is what I choose to do, they are no longer the lowest cost index funds.
https://www.schwab.com/mutual-funds/mut ... portfolios

Vanguard equivalents are 11-14 bps vs 50 at Schwab.
Their target date index funds are cheaper. Currently 8 bps, gross 12 bp. Either is cheaper than Vanguard.

https://www.schwabassetmanagement.com/node/3946

Perhaps Vanguard will someday reduce the fee of their investor shares - the only shareholders are the target date funds now, right? Wonder why it's so high...
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:45 am
nisiprius wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:29 am
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
In my case, the unexpressed connecting train of thought was, "if I were to leave Vanguard, would I choose to continue using the same Vanguard funds I use now?" And the answer is: nah, probably not. I sure as heck wouldn't pay a $49.95 transaction fee.* In the past there have been hassles trying to hold Admiral shares of index funds elsewhere. I could hold my nose and learn to live with ETFs, maybe, but one of my important current Vanguard funds isn't available as an ETF.

*At Fidelity and at Schwab.
At your significant asset level you could ask Schwab to waive the transaction fees for the mutual funds you want to buy.
Has anyone tried the same at Fidelity?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jeffyscott »

DividendMickey wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:43 am
galawdawg wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:54 am
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
Vanguard Wellesley is only available at Schwab as investor class (VWINX) but is open to all investors. Vanguard Wellington (VWENX) is available at Schwab to those who already hold VWENX in which case they can also invest in additional shares of VWENX (or of course sell existing shares).
I posed this question to Fidelity yesterday (via secure email!), but probably should have asked it here. It appears that you can only hold investor shares of Wellesley at Fidelity, correct? I have Admiral shares I would like to keep, and transfer if possible.
Someone above implied that admiral shares could be transferred in at Schwab. So there may be a difference between what can be held vs. what can be bought there (and presumably at Fidelity, as well).

I know that Schwab shows admiral shares of vanguard managed funds as available only to institutional clients.

We may someday do some consolidating of accounts and would want to keep the admiral shares, but would not be buying more.
The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions. ― John C. Bogle
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

Whakamole wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 pm
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:45 am At your significant asset level you could ask Schwab to waive the transaction fees for the mutual funds you want to buy.
Has anyone tried the same at Fidelity?
I did and it was a hard "no". I have seen several posts here that others experienced the same.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jeffyscott »

beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:26 am Also fixed income is mostly NOT index investing. Yes there are some index funds, heavy on ultra low yield US Tsy bonds, which are not of interest to me now. All other funds require investment selection, and Vanguard not only does so cheaply, they are more conservative in their active funds than most others, avoiding poorly rated bonds in the name of yield chasing. So you pay lower fees for active fixed income and get a better product, mostly not ETF so not as portable. Some I can own outside Vanguard but with 90 day holds without trans fees or pay transaction fees at other brokers. Some Admiral fixed income funds simply are not for sale outside Vanguard at all. For someone mostly in equities or ok with BND for fixed income, walk away, you don’t need to put up with this bad customer service. For others who use a broader array of very good Vanguard funds, it is more economical to stay at Vanguard retail brokerage.
One thing Schwab offers is access to the institutional class of a number of managed bond funds, with very low minimums. Not as cheap as Vanguard, but I don't really find any of Vanguard's managed taxable bond funds particularly appealing (we don't invest in any muni funds). Their new core plus and multisector ones could be of interest, though.
The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions. ― John C. Bogle
Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

galawdawg wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:18 pm
Whakamole wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 pm
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:45 am At your significant asset level you could ask Schwab to waive the transaction fees for the mutual funds you want to buy.
Has anyone tried the same at Fidelity?
I did and it was a hard "no". I have seen several posts here that others experienced the same.
Oh well. What is the process of asking for a waiver?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

Whakamole wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:29 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:18 pm
Whakamole wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 pm
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:45 am At your significant asset level you could ask Schwab to waive the transaction fees for the mutual funds you want to buy.
Has anyone tried the same at Fidelity?
I did and it was a hard "no". I have seen several posts here that others experienced the same.
Oh well. What is the process of asking for a waiver?
At Schwab you just speak with an advisor and ask. They'll ask about the general portfolio size you are looking at bringing over and can either approve it themselves or may have to have someone higher up sign off on the waiver. Don't forget to ask about a transfer bonus too, they'll often match offers from other brokerages.
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beyou
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:23 am
Didn’t you say earlier that the Zero funds were bad because they could not be moved? Can we say Vanguard seems to have a lot of funds that also lock you in to using their services because they can’t be moved elsewhere? It sounds like Vanguard has more than 4? I think we should talk about this more in these threads and warn people not to hold them in taxable accounts like we do the Zero funds. Tax deferred is fine but taxable- no way.
Yes I did. But note equity funds are much stickier due to potential capital gains.
If I ever decide to leave Vanguard, I can sell their house brand bond funds without huge cap gains.
But a zero S&P 500 that has been in the market a while, might be very unpleasant to sell if you want to move out from Fidelity.
There may well be less reasons to move away from Fidelity though !
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Bluce
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Bluce »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
I have VWIAX. I believe that is Admiral . . . ? But I bought it in 2013, not sure what's going on today although I know they did change something about it.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Doc »

Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:39 pm
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
I have VWIAX. I believe that is Admiral . . . ? But I bought it in 2013, not sure what's going on today although I know they did change something about it.
I just looked. You can buy it. If you can buy it you must be able to hold it. I don't think they can make you take it home with you. :D

Jeffy wrote:
I know that Schwab shows admiral shares of vanguard managed funds as available only to institutional clients.
I may belong in an institution but I am certainly not an institutional client.
Last edited by Doc on Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am Didn't receive the pop-up again this morning. I'll check again tomorrow.

With or without the message center, I'm hesitant to move our accounts away from VG because:

1. We are still in accumulation phase, for the next 25-30 years. As others have mentioned, there's not much contact needed when you're just depositing money. And a lot can change within that timeframe with any brokerage.
Sure, "I never need help so who cares if there's help?" is a great argument, until you need help. With something you may be never expected to.
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am 2. Fixed income options are nice if you sway from total bond market. We've been using VSGDX/VTSAX as a savings account. Haven't been able to find a find similar to VSGDX elsewhere (open to suggestions).

3. No account transfer fee, whereas Schwab (where we likely would go) does charge that fee if we ever stopped liking their service. Yes it's small in the scheme of things.
The bonus matching at Schwab *swaaaamps* any possible transfer-out fees. My bonus was, for example, $3800, and a transfer-out fee would (at the very worse) be $200.

If you don't like bonuses and transfer-out fees, then switch to Fidelity, where there are no fees for anything.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by DividendMickey »

nalor511 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:16 pm
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am Didn't receive the pop-up again this morning. I'll check again tomorrow.

With or without the message center, I'm hesitant to move our accounts away from VG because:

1. We are still in accumulation phase, for the next 25-30 years. As others have mentioned, there's not much contact needed when you're just depositing money. And a lot can change within that timeframe with any brokerage.
Sure, "I never need help so who cares if there's help?" is a great argument, until you need help. With something you may be never expected to.
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am 2. Fixed income options are nice if you sway from total bond market. We've been using VSGDX/VTSAX as a savings account. Haven't been able to find a find similar to VSGDX elsewhere (open to suggestions).

3. No account transfer fee, whereas Schwab (where we likely would go) does charge that fee if we ever stopped liking their service. Yes it's small in the scheme of things.
The bonus matching at Schwab *swaaaamps* any possible transfer-out fees. My bonus was, for example, $3800, and a transfer-out fee would (at the very worse) be $200.

If you don't like bonuses and transfer-out fees, then switch to Fidelity, where there are no fees for anything.
The part above about help, now or in the future, is what troubles me about Vanguard's change to the message system. Like many others here I am a simple DIY guy....for now.

My chief concern is when I have to start making provisions for retirement, RMD's, possible estate/trust matters, etc. That's when I will absolutely need to be in contact with them, and if they keep shutting off avenues of communication then it's time to look elsewhere.

As someone above said in sarcastic jest- why on earth would I want to contact the institution that holds my life savings? :?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by gwe67 »

nalor511 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:16 pm
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am
The bonus matching at Schwab *swaaaamps* any possible transfer-out fees. My bonus was, for example, $3800, and a transfer-out fee would (at the very worse) be $200.

If you don't like bonuses and transfer-out fees, then switch to Fidelity, where there are no fees for anything.
Where is this $3,800 bonus? All I'm seeing is a max of $500 to transfer to Schwab.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by runninginvestor »

nalor511 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:16 pm
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am
Sure, "I never need help so who cares if there's help?" is a great argument, until you need help. With something you may be never expected to.
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am
The bonus matching at Schwab *swaaaamps* any possible transfer-out fees. My bonus was, for example, $3800, and a transfer-out fee would (at the very worse) be $200.

If you don't like bonuses and transfer-out fees, then switch to Fidelity, where there are no fees for anything.
I was just mentioning that when accumulating the message center needs aren't a priority. I am most definitely not in the mindset implied ("I never need help so who cares if there's help?"). It's silly not offer digital messaging in this day and age whether it's needed now or mostly in the future. I'm curious if they are going through with it.

The outbound fee I know is just a behavioral retention policy (among the few $'s it gets them).

Sorry for the forthcoming multiple Qs, if that's not something you want to share to share. Out of curiosity when did you get that large of a bonus (recently or a few years ago)? Was it all in one go or with multiple accounts? Just brokerage accounts or other banking services?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

gwe67 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:37 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:16 pm
runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am
The bonus matching at Schwab *swaaaamps* any possible transfer-out fees. My bonus was, for example, $3800, and a transfer-out fee would (at the very worse) be $200.

If you don't like bonuses and transfer-out fees, then switch to Fidelity, where there are no fees for anything.
Where is this $3,800 bonus? All I'm seeing is a max of $500 to transfer to Schwab.
Find the Brokerage Transfer Bonus threat on bogleheads, or go check out the bonuses on doctorofcredit, and contact Schwab to match the largest one you can find. It wasn't even difficult, I said "can you match X terms from Y brokerage" and they said "sure... what else do you need to move to us?" and I added a few more strings that made a difference to me (waiving fees on VG Admiral, etc) and they said "done". AND, I contacted them via secure messaging. :shock:

This was a month ago. Schwab isn't perfect, they have their issues, but customer service is not one of them.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jeffyscott »

Doc wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:15 pm
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:39 pm
jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:31 am I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
Are you able to hold Admiral shares of Wellesley at Schwab?
I have VWIAX. I believe that is Admiral . . . ? But I bought it in 2013, not sure what's going on today although I know they did change something about it.
I just looked. You can buy it. If you can buy it you must be able to hold it. I don't think they can make you take it home with you. :D

Jeffy wrote:
I know that Schwab shows admiral shares of vanguard managed funds as available only to institutional clients.
I may belong in an institution but I am certainly not an institutional client.
Schwab indicates "institutional only", here: https://www.schwab.com/research/mutual- ... fees/vwiax

If I try to place an order, I get a message saying: "We cannot process your order because shares for this fund are only available to institutional customers".

I am guessing that you can at least transfer in and hold it, based on:
jhd1945 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:14 am I moved from Schwab because I could not convert Wellington to Admiral Wellington. Schwab said that I could transfer to Vanguard then transfer back.
So I just moved most of my portfolio to Vanguard a couple of years ago. Now I am thinking of going back.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

runninginvestor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:38 pm The outbound fee I know is just a behavioral retention policy (among the few $'s it gets them).
If Vanguard instituted a transfer outbound fee, how many would say "fine with me, I have no plans on leaving Vanguard"?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Volando »

Every time I read these vanguard threads I'm left wondering if I should just bite the bullet and switch now (during accumulation) to prevent future headache. But I haven't had any issues with Vanguard so far.... And who's to say that Schwab or Fidelity won't change their methods and have similar or worse problems 20-30 years from now?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

Volando wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:17 pm Every time I read these vanguard threads I'm left wondering if I should just bite the bullet and switch now (during accumulation) to prevent future headache. But I haven't had any issues with Vanguard so far.... And who's to say that Schwab or Fidelity won't change their methods and have similar or worse problems 20-30 years from now?
You aren’t getting married. If they have similar or worse problems in 5, 10 or 20 years, you go somewhere else.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by bondsr4me »

Volando wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:17 pm Every time I read these vanguard threads I'm left wondering if I should just bite the bullet and switch now (during accumulation) to prevent future headache. But I haven't had any issues with Vanguard so far.... And who's to say that Schwab or Fidelity won't change their methods and have similar or worse problems 20-30 years from now?
the same could be said about Vanguard too....nobody knows what will happen in the future.
right now, VG is making a change in customer service that many don't like...including myself.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Bluce »

I've been thinking about the whole Wellesley thing if held at Schwab.

As someone mentioned, only institutions can buy VWIAX at Schwab as of the past few years. I cannot add to my existing VWIAX holdings without changing the share class to VWINX and I am paranoid of triggering a taxable event even though, theoretically, it can be done.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Doc »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:07 pm If I try to place an order, I get a message saying: "We cannot process your order because shares for this fund are only available to institutional customers".
Thanks. I didn't try to actually place the order earlier because I was afraid I would screw up and hit the "execute" key.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Yesterdaysnews »

Probably extremely dumb but I like how Schwab will give you a total % and dollar amount ur accounts are up (or down) on the day. It’s kinda fun to track when there is a good day. I always found that kind of info difficult to find on vanguard.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by tomsense76 »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:56 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:17 pm Your point still stands, but you're comparing and enumerating your elite level at Schwab based on assets to the most basic access level at Vanguard. Some still have secure messages and even a relationship manager with whom appointments can be scheduled (outside PAS). If you were still at Vanguard, you probably would as well. Maybe that also goes away in the short-term future.
All Schwab customers can reach Schwab by phone 24/7, by live chat (during the hours noted) and by secure message.
I don't have anything special with Schwab. They just hold ESPP & RSUs for our company plan. At one point I tried to login rather late at night on a weekend and had issues. Was pretty worried something was messed up with my account (I think I changed something at the time, but can't remember what). Called and immediately got through to a person, who explained they were having a technical issue with an upgrade they were completing. Once it cleared up they let me know and was able to login shortly thereafter. Now I'm not planning to move all my assets today, but if I were to starting thinking about it. I would remember this stellar customer service from Schwab.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Doc »

Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:08 pm As someone mentioned, only institutions can buy VWIAX at Schwab as of the past few years. I cannot add to my existing VWIAX holdings without changing the share class to VWINX and I am paranoid of triggering a taxable event even though, theoretically, it can be done.
I don't belive that changing share classes of a fund is a taxable event. But I've already been wrong once this afternoon so please verify.

I do know that going from a Vangaurd mutual fund to the ETF class of the same fund is not a taxable event. Been there, done that at least at Vg.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

Volando wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:17 pm Every time I read these vanguard threads I'm left wondering if I should just bite the bullet and switch now (during accumulation) to prevent future headache. But I haven't had any issues with Vanguard so far.... And who's to say that Schwab or Fidelity won't change their methods and have similar or worse problems 20-30 years from now?
But which way is each trending?? Has Vanguard been adding or slashing services in the past several years? Has Vanguard been lowering expenses for all Vanguard "client-owners" over the past several years? How about Fidelity and Schwab?

Look at what Vanguard itself believes to be important in the running of a business, or as they put it, "What does great corporate governance look like?" https://about.vanguard.com/investment-s ... -policies/#
Board composition, oversight of strategy and risk, executive compensation, and governance structures. Here are a few gems from Vanguard, this one on governance structure:
We believe in the importance of governance structures that empower shareholders and ensure accountability of the board and management. Shareholders should be able to hold directors accountable as needed and provide feedback through their voice and their vote.

We believe that directors should stand for election by shareholders annually and secure a majority of the votes in order to join or remain on the board. If a board appears resistant to shareholder input, we also support the rights of shareholders, at an appropriate level of ownership, to call special meetings or to place director nominees on the company's ballot.
How is Vanguard doing in that area? How about Fidelity and Schwab?

Here's another "principle of great corporate governance" from Vanguard, this one on executive compensation:
Providing effective disclosure of these practices (executive compensation), their alignment with company performance, and their outcomes is crucial to giving shareholders confidence in the link between incentives and rewards and the creation of value over the long term.
Again, how is Vanguard doing in that area? How about Fidelity and Schwab?

While like investing "nobody knows" what the future holds, one can certainly see how a business changes over time, the direction the business is taking, consider their transparency and accountability (or lack thereof) as well as whether or not it has "great corporate governance" to reach certain conclusions....
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by egrets »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:30 am
egrets wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 am Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks...
I've never had anything but trouble with B of A, starting way back when I had an account at the late lamented Crocker Bank, and B of A did their automatic mortgage payments. One month B of A "ran the tape twice" and deleted the payments twice from all our checking accounts, and refused to undo it since "it will even out next month."
Troubling, how long ago was this? So it was both checking and mortgage with BoA?
Very long ago. Note the reference to magtape. The mortgage was with a S&L. B of A handled the monthly automatic transfers from Crocker. I had no idea B of A was even involved until this happened.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Yesterdaysnews »

Even great companies like Vanguard can forget what made them great when the money rolls in. With trillions in AUM those running the company probably will slowly get corrupted by success if not already, it’s human nature after all. Jack Bogle was a unique gem of a person, especially in the finance industry. But there’s no doubt imo the Vanguard will slowly erode away a lot of what he was all about.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by southerndoc »

The Vanguard today is almost unrecognizable from what Mr. Bogle created.

Taking away an online messaging system will only force more phone calls, which will increase costs for hiring new employees or will increase wait times to reach a live person. Most online messages can be handled quickly.

I have found the feature very useful in the past. Looks like I might be moving my Solo 401(k) somewhere else as online messaging is important to me.

Maybe if we all send an email to Buckley he might change his mind.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by typical.investor »

southerndoc wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:39 pm The Vanguard today is almost unrecognizable from what Mr. Bogle created.

Taking away an online messaging system will only force more phone calls, which will increase costs for hiring new employees or will increase wait times to reach a live person. Most online messages can be handled quickly.

I have found the feature very useful in the past. Looks like I might be moving my Solo 401(k) somewhere else as online messaging is important to me.

Maybe if we all send an email to Buckley he might change his mind.
Why would Buckley care? Zero customer service both lowers fund costs making them more competitive and also gives people incentive to use PAS which isn’t at-cost and which puts money in Buckley’s pocket.

I bet PAS will introduce some kind of secure message if they don’t have it already.
Last edited by typical.investor on Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by southerndoc »

mortimer_j_buckley@vanguard.com

I've already sent an email.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

I knew Jack Bogle and let me tell you...Tim Buckley is no Jack Bogle!

At the annual Bogleheads conferences, Jack would answer any questions you had without hesitation. Buckley required that questions be written down and pre-submitted. Only certain of those questions would be asked of him and they were never the tough questions. I submitted some rather specific questions about Vanguard at the Bogleheads 2018 conference and guess what...they didn't made the cut.

And also unlike Jack, Buckley and his staff generally does not even respond to letters from Vanguard client-owners. I sent him two and received no reply...not even a form letter.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Bluce »

Yesterdaysnews wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:25 pm Even great companies like Vanguard can forget what made them great when the money rolls in. With trillions in AUM those running the company probably will slowly get corrupted by success if not already, it’s human nature after all. Jack Bogle was a unique gem of a person, especially in the finance industry. But there’s no doubt imo the Vanguard will slowly erode away a lot of what he was all about.
Yep. Businesses generally have lifespans like any living creature. When young and small they are aggressive, innovative, and pay attention to market signals. As they age and expand they do less of the above.

Eventually they turn into bureaucracies where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and they don't pay as much attention to market signals. At some point they are actually incapable of doing so.

And then, with seemingly endless streams of capital available, they start living off their fat. Eventually it becomes so unwieldy and colossal that it will be impossible for anyone or any group to turn them around. The end is not far away.

Digging from my memory from the late '70s: roughly paraphrasing John DeLorean in On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors, "Attempting to make a change at the Chevrolet Division was like grabbing a dinosaur by the tail and trying to turn him around." 8-)
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by zaplunken »

I've been on this board for 13 years and this is the most disturbing thread I have ever read. I've been a Vanguard customer for over 23 years and have been just investing and exchanging, no distributions, and I can do those easily but RMDs will be happening soon and may need help deciding how to and how much to withhold for taxes, I imagine picking funds to sell is easy. I may need help with taxes. I have a brokerage account, Voyager Select, for all 3 accounts and only hold mutual funds and do not want ETFs (Schwab sounds like there's a fee for mutual funds). In June I hit over $1M and maintained that for July so I may be at Flagship status by the end of August, I was told they look at your total holding the last Friday of each of 3 consecutive months to establish Flagship. I went to review my AA this weekend using chrome and saw nothing. I just went to Vanguard using Brave (thinking a different browser) and see nothing. I had to search various menus to even find the Message Center, I may never have used it. I have had to call a few times for questions.

My concern is moving a taxable account that would incur LTCG, a 401k rollover IRA and a Roth to either Fidelity or Schwab. I like Vanguard's simple displays of the mutual funds I have, I looked at Fido and was lost in all the complexity, I assume Schwab is pretty much the same. TMI!

1. Does Schwab charge $49 to just buy the mutual fund initially or is that charged each time to exchange money from 1 fund to another as in rebalancing or reinvesting dividends?

2. Fido has a Total Stock Market Index but there are 2 mutual funds, one is a zero fee the other 1.5 bp IIRC. Confusing, why are there 2?

3. This one is really important to me. On the 15th and last day of each month I look at all 3 accounts to determine my AA. If I have ETFs at Fido or Schwab those balances keep changing during the day when the market is open, not a problem with a mutual fund on the next day as long as I do it before 4 pm. Vanguard does not have accurate balances on the 15th and last day until the following day. Does an ETF at Fido or Schwab have the accurate balance that day (15th and last day of the month) after 4 pm, probably not immediately but maybe in 30 minutes or an hour? Using an ETF once at Vanguard was a problem as my balance in that 1 ETF was constantly changing at 10 am and I couldn't balance things until I realized the ETF was throwing me off constantly as the nav was changing. This is a big deal to me and why I don't want ETFs, it makes geting my AA and balances hard. I asked a few questions in #3 and would greatly appreciate it if someone can clarify all these questions.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by stan1 »

zaplunken wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm I've been on this board for 13 years and this is the most disturbing thread I have ever read. I've been a Vanguard customer for over 23 years and have been just investing and exchanging, no distributions, and I can do those easily but RMDs will be happening soon and may need help deciding how to and how much to withhold for taxes, I imagine picking funds to sell is easy. I may need help with taxes. I have a brokerage account, Voyager Select, for all 3 accounts and only hold mutual funds and do not want ETFs (Schwab sounds like there's a fee for mutual funds). In June I hit over $1M and maintained that for July so I may be at Flagship status by the end of August, I was told they look at your total holding the last Friday of each of 3 consecutive months to establish Flagship. I went to review my AA this weekend using chrome and saw nothing. I just went to Vanguard using Brave (thinking a different browser) and see nothing. I had to search various menus to even find the Message Center, I may never have used it. I have had to call a few times for questions.

My concern is moving a taxable account that would incur LTCG, a 401k rollover IRA and a Roth to either Fidelity or Schwab. I like Vanguard's simple displays of the mutual funds I have, I looked at Fido and was lost in all the complexity, I assume Schwab is pretty much the same. TMI!

1. Does Schwab charge $49 to just buy the mutual fund initially or is that charged each time to exchange money from 1 fund to another as in rebalancing or reinvesting dividends?

2. Fido has a Total Stock Market Index but there are 2 mutual funds, one is a zero fee the other 1.5 bp IIRC. Confusing, why are there 2?

3. This one is really important to me. On the 15th and last day of each month I look at all 3 accounts to determine my AA. If I have ETFs at Fido or Schwab those balances keep changing during the day when the market is open, not a problem with a mutual fund on the next day as long as I do it before 4 pm. Vanguard does not have accurate balances on the 15th and last day until the following day. Does an ETF at Fido or Schwab have the accurate balance that day (15th and last day of the month) after 4 pm, probably not immediately but maybe in 30 minutes or an hour? Using an ETF once at Vanguard was a problem as my balance in that 1 ETF was constantly changing at 10 am and I couldn't balance things until I realized the ETF was throwing me off constantly as the nav was changing. This is a big deal to me and why I don't want ETFs, it makes geting my AA and balances hard. I asked a few questions in #3 and would greatly appreciate it if someone can clarify all these questions.
Vanguard has a very easy to use online RMD tool that assists with tax withholding, plus they have phone reps at an RMD group with special training to help with RMDs that you'll be transferred to. I'd recommend either over exchanging secure email messages with customer service reps. Given your preferences I'm not sure why would choose to leave Vanguard simply because you no longer have the ability to email them?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

zaplunken wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm 2. Fido has a Total Stock Market Index but there are 2 mutual funds, one is a zero fee the other 1.5 bp IIRC. Confusing, why are there 2?
They're different funds. The one with 1.5 bp is what happened when Fidelity did the equivalent of Vanguard moving to Admiral shares only. Though I think Fidelity collapsed everyone into the equivalent of institutional-level shares, thus the low ER.

The ZERO funds, and there are a few of them, were introduced a year or two ago as a way to get money into Fidelity. I believe these have to be kept at Fidelity.

A thread just started comparing performance: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=354879

I stick with the normal funds in tax-deferred.
okwriter
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:00 pm

Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by okwriter »

zaplunken wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm Vanguard does not have accurate balances on the 15th and last day until the following day. Does an ETF at Fido or Schwab have the accurate balance that day (15th and last day of the month) after 4 pm, probably not immediately but maybe in 30 minutes or an hour?
I think this is a problem unique to Vanguard's website. Fidelity's ETF balances are always up-to-date; their mutual fund balances get updated around 5 pm ET. Vanguard, on the other hand, has this weird bug where some numbers don't get updated till the next day.
nalor511
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:00 am

Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

stan1 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:59 pm
zaplunken wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm I've been on this board for 13 years and this is the most disturbing thread I have ever read. I've been a Vanguard customer for over 23 years and have been just investing and exchanging, no distributions, and I can do those easily but RMDs will be happening soon and may need help deciding how to and how much to withhold for taxes, I imagine picking funds to sell is easy. I may need help with taxes. I have a brokerage account, Voyager Select, for all 3 accounts and only hold mutual funds and do not want ETFs (Schwab sounds like there's a fee for mutual funds). In June I hit over $1M and maintained that for July so I may be at Flagship status by the end of August, I was told they look at your total holding the last Friday of each of 3 consecutive months to establish Flagship. I went to review my AA this weekend using chrome and saw nothing. I just went to Vanguard using Brave (thinking a different browser) and see nothing. I had to search various menus to even find the Message Center, I may never have used it. I have had to call a few times for questions.

My concern is moving a taxable account that would incur LTCG, a 401k rollover IRA and a Roth to either Fidelity or Schwab. I like Vanguard's simple displays of the mutual funds I have, I looked at Fido and was lost in all the complexity, I assume Schwab is pretty much the same. TMI!

1. Does Schwab charge $49 to just buy the mutual fund initially or is that charged each time to exchange money from 1 fund to another as in rebalancing or reinvesting dividends?

2. Fido has a Total Stock Market Index but there are 2 mutual funds, one is a zero fee the other 1.5 bp IIRC. Confusing, why are there 2?

3. This one is really important to me. On the 15th and last day of each month I look at all 3 accounts to determine my AA. If I have ETFs at Fido or Schwab those balances keep changing during the day when the market is open, not a problem with a mutual fund on the next day as long as I do it before 4 pm. Vanguard does not have accurate balances on the 15th and last day until the following day. Does an ETF at Fido or Schwab have the accurate balance that day (15th and last day of the month) after 4 pm, probably not immediately but maybe in 30 minutes or an hour? Using an ETF once at Vanguard was a problem as my balance in that 1 ETF was constantly changing at 10 am and I couldn't balance things until I realized the ETF was throwing me off constantly as the nav was changing. This is a big deal to me and why I don't want ETFs, it makes geting my AA and balances hard. I asked a few questions in #3 and would greatly appreciate it if someone can clarify all these questions.
Vanguard has a very easy to use online RMD tool that assists with tax withholding, plus they have phone reps at an RMD group with special training to help with RMDs that you'll be transferred to. I'd recommend either over exchanging secure email messages with customer service reps. Given your preferences I'm not sure why would choose to leave Vanguard simply because you no longer have the ability to email them?
1. Ask them to set your accounts to waive the fee, done.
2. Previously answered
3. Schwab and fidelity update their page(including Vanguard admiral funds) balances before Vanguard does
starboi
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:33 am

Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by starboi »

zaplunken wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm
My concern is moving a taxable account that would incur LTCG
Transfering an account doesn't automatically incur LTCG.
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