Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

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livesoft
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Re: Portfolio Visualizer at Vanguard

Post by livesoft »

mkc wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:43 amFlat out wrong.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
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Thesaints
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Re: Portfolio Visualizer at Vanguard

Post by Thesaints »

NYCaviator wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 6:51 am I will be the first to admit I am absolutely spreadsheet challenged. Is there a way to easily track AA over multiple accounts with different holdings? For example, in one 401k we use the 2055 fund. In another 401k we use Fidelity 500 and extended market to replicate total stock market. In our brokerage/IRAs we use the standard 3 fund. How do I track my domestic to international ratio and my stock to bond ratio with such diverse holdings? Is there a template that is easy to use?
I have all my 34 holdings displayed on Vanguard. I don't use their portfolio analysis tool for obvious reasons.
To check my AA it takes me about 1 minute and a pocket calculator to go through the list and add up stocks. All the rest is cash/bonds.
For the domestic/foreign split it takes a few minutes longer, because I have to check the latest data on the global funds: VT, VMVFX, VGHAX. Doing so, I automatically get the EM shares as well.

For bonds, the analysis is quite simple. A couple TIPS funds, plus savings bonds total gives me the inflation-indexed amount. All the rest are very short to medium/short maturities, all of the highest credit quality. There also is a 10% in a HY bonds fund.

All in all, I can get a detailed picture within 10 minutes at the most and without using spreadsheets.
Needles to say, I wouldn't touch a target date, nor a total bond, fund with the proverbial 10 ft pole.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by mkc »

Regarding the errors for outside investments:

I happened to be doing a quick check on something else, and noticed if you go into Portfolio Watch and click "non-retirement accounts" in the drop down for analysis

"Portfolio overview - The Non-retirement account group does not include accounts held outside Vanguard"


Same for if you click "Retirement accounts"

"Portfolio overview - The Retirement account group does not include accounts held outside Vanguard"


The message is in fairly small print (at least on a computer screen) and I didn't see it mentioned here before.


Any suggestions for an aggregator that has a "portfolio tester" feature similar to how VG's used to work? That was the most convenient I'd found for modeling rebalancing in the past.
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Vanguard's new "Pie Charts"

Post by sammy1635 »

[Instead of locking this post as non-actionable, it was merged into the existing discussion of the changes at Vanguard's Portfolio Watch. You may find actionable and constructive advice in this thread. Moderator Misenplace]

To Vanguard Management,
Recently, clicking on profiles, I noticed Vanguard's "Latest Pie Charts" do not show slices of pie but only show colored thin outer rings (perhaps better called outer pie crust) signifying percentage holdings of various fund groupings. Perhaps as a 86 year old I tend to like old fashion pies and pie charts. I feel the former pie charts are more colorful and easy to read for all ages groups. Try asking a two year old which pie they prefer, a cut pie, or an uncut pie with cut colored crust. Please bring back the original pie chart(s)
Yours Truly,
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Re: Vanguard's new "Pie Charts"

Post by RickBoglehead »

I'm sure they'll get right on that. Of course they'd have to read this.
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Re: Vanguard's new "Pie Charts"

Post by Tubes »

It is all about how it looks on a phone, especially the animation of the "crust" spinning and filling with the "crust-slices."

Next up will be animated fireworks if your portfolio hits your target allocation. Maybe even throw in a dancing cartoon image of Jack Bogle to spice it up.
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Eagle33
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Eagle33 »

Maybe the change from a pie to a ring diagram is to more emphasize a broad index diversification AA portfolio and de-emphasize a slice-n-dice by sectors AA portfolio.
vigilant104
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by vigilant104 »

Let me just say that, as far as I can tell, the new Portfolio Watch is a huge downgrade from the prior version.
- Yes, lots more clicking. Giant graphics, not nearly enough information per screen. Someone loves these giant ring charts--noted. Dumb.
- Printing: The printed version of the report is terrible. No matter what screen I'm on, I get the same 5 page report--a report that doesn't even contain the overall asset allocation of the selected portfolio.

Vanguard really let us down with this "improvement." The previous report had useful explanatory text, more data per screen, a very nice and well organized printed format. I manage my MIL's accounts and could print and send her an annual recap of her portfolio with text that put it all in context. Now I get to get to click through the endless ring charts, try to do screen captures (what is this, 1990?), paste them into a Word document, and write a lot of text to give it context.

Does this new format somehow save Vanguard money? It's clearly not better in any way.
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Tubes
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

vigilant104 wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 8:49 pm Does this new format somehow save Vanguard money? It's clearly not better in any way.
I'm sticking with my theory that it is all about phone app users. This has been going on with many different websites over the last 10 years.

We live in a "TL/DR" age where animation and colorful large pictures rule over informative text.

So it may "save money" to ensure growth in a new customer base. Remember, VG is competing with robo-advisers like Betterment, especially for future customers. Betterment uses animated ring charts.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by vigilant104 »

Tubes wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:08 am
vigilant104 wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 8:49 pm Does this new format somehow save Vanguard money? It's clearly not better in any way.
I'm sticking with my theory that it is all about phone app users. This has been going on with many different websites over the last 10 years.

We live in a "TL/DR" age where animation and colorful large pictures rule over informative text.

So it may "save money" to ensure growth in a new customer base. Remember, VG is competing with robo-advisers like Betterment, especially for future customers. Betterment uses animated ring charts.
This could be accurate. Still, Vanguard needn't destroy a good tool already used by many of their existing customers (who, one would think, would be pretty darn important in the competitive environment that you mention).
At least two alternatives:
1) Restore the old Portfolio Watch for use by those who like it. Make the (few) improvements to asset identification that may be in the new tool, but leave the presentation and rest of it alone. Unveil this new thing for the "TL/DR" crowd under a different name. Then, go hog wild with confetti, animations, links to social media, birthday greetings, kitten emojis, whatever in the new Romper Room space.
2) At a minimum, leave the new, worse, Portfolio Watch as it is, but restore the "reports" function to be like the old one: A well organized, concise view of the information without glitz. Folks can choose to view it online or even (gasp!) print it, but the text will be there. This isn't ideal (in a perfect world, "reports" wouldn't introduce information that isn't already in the web pages), but at least the information is available, the "glancers" aren't inconvenienced, and those who care about the nuance can get it, and with a minimum of clicks.

Regardless, the "print" function on the existing Portfolio Watch should "print" what is actually being displayed, not something entirely different. It's not just a different format, it is entirely different information.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by jebmke »

Data is still wrong - at least for bonds. Showing I have 16% international bonds but I have none.

Still safe to ignore their numbers here.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

vigilant104 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 10:52 am Still, Vanguard needn't destroy a good tool already used by many of their existing customers (who, one would think, would be pretty darn important in the competitive environment that you mention).
At least two alternatives:
1) Restore the old Portfolio Watch for use by those who like it. Make the (few) improvements to asset identification that may be in the new tool, but leave the presentation and rest of it alone. Unveil this new thing for the "TL/DR" crowd under a different name. Then, go hog wild with confetti, animations, links to social media, birthday greetings, kitten emojis, whatever in the new Romper Room space.
2) At a minimum, leave the new, worse, Portfolio Watch as it is, but restore the "reports" function to be like the old one: A well organized, concise view of the information without glitz. Folks cn choose to view it online or even (gasp!) print it, but the text will be there.

Regardless, the "print" function on the existing Portfolio Watch should "print" what is actually being displayed, not something entirely different. It's not just a different format, it is entirely different information.
Oh, I totally agree. I miss the old view too. I miss the old correct accuracy even more, without going through workarounds we discussed.

There is precedent for your idea too. Today when you log in and go to accounts, you get a slimmed down version with bolder fonts, but less information and links. I would guess this looks great on a tablet (I don't have one to check). However, you can still go to "My Accounts->Balances and Holdings" to get the old view with more information and action links. I find myself routinely doing that, even though I have to put on my reading glasses.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by vigilant104 »

I called Vanguard to see if I was missing something: Is there a way to make the new oh-so-glitzy Portfolio Watch produce a report that actually gives the asset allocation of the selected holdings? (Like the stuff shown on the first screen of the web version: % stocks, % bonds, etc--ideally with sub-breakdowns for domestic, etc)

Answer: No

This would seem to be a pretty basic function of Portfolio Watch.

The (very helpful) rep said that she is getting a lot of complaints on the reformatted Portfolio Watch. She says Vanguard takes this seriously and encouraged me to send them a message with specifics. I did that. "If you must keep the eye candy, okay. But please give us the same report format we had before: compact, useful graphics. Informative text."

We'll see. I'm not optimistic.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by PinotGris »

mkc wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:21 am Regarding the errors for outside investments:
I happened to be doing a quick check on something else, and noticed if you go into Portfolio Watch and click "non-retirement accounts" in the drop down for analysis
"Portfolio overview - The Non-retirement account group does not include accounts held outside Vanguard"
Same for if you click "Retirement accounts"
"Portfolio overview - The Retirement account group does not include accounts held outside Vanguard"
The message is in fairly small print (at least on a computer screen) and I didn't see it mentioned here before.
Any suggestions for an aggregator that has a "portfolio tester" feature similar to how VG's used to work? That was the most convenient I'd found for modeling rebalancing in the past.
I just gave an earful to the Rep who answered my call. He is not the tech person so all he could do way sympathyze. This is what I found out/
The "Retirement" and "Non-Retirment" are default groups that VG creates. My default account does not display my bond holdings that are held outside of Vanguard, as it says on the top.
So I created another group I called Taxable (as opposed to Retirement/Tax deferred) and included all funds it includes plus the bond fund held outside. Now it shows the asset allocation correctly.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by NYCaviator »

Has anyone found a different solution for this without giving away your logins to Personal Captial? Will Quicken for Mac (not windows) give data on AA and domestic vs. intl, sector exposure, etc?

Portfolio Visualizer is now categorizing my Fidelity US Bond Fund as an international bond fund. :oops: It would be funny if it weren't so frustrating. Every day I am inching closer and closer to transferring everything to Schwab...
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by mkc »

NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:33 pm Has anyone found a different solution for this without giving away your logins to Personal Captial? Will Quicken for Mac (not windows) give data on AA and domestic vs. intl, sector exposure, etc?

Portfolio Visualizer is now categorizing my Fidelity US Bond Fund as an international bond fund. :oops: It would be funny if it weren't so frustrating. Every day I am inching closer and closer to transferring everything to Schwab...
I'm using Fidelity's Full View, but you do need to provide logins (and have a Fido account).

VG Portfolio Watch/Portfolio Tester thinks all the T.Rowe target date and allocation-type funds are 100% stock... It's creating a significant error in our asset allocation "calculation".
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Random Musings »

I just will continue to use my spreadsheet. I know what my target allocation and bands are and am notified when I need to rebalance.

RM
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by NYCaviator »

Random Musings wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:47 pm I just will continue to use my spreadsheet. I know what my target allocation and bands are and am notified when I need to rebalance.

RM
RM - is there a template online that you use? I am not good with spreadsheets, but how is it accurate unless you manually input the value of your ETF/fund shares every time you check it, how many shares are owned, etc. Seems like a lot of work unless there is a way it is automatically updated.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Take a look in the wiki: Using a spreadsheet to maintain a portfolio

Morningstar's Instant X-Ray would work if you're not comfortable with spreadsheets.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Random Musings »

NYCaviator wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:39 am
Random Musings wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:47 pm I just will continue to use my spreadsheet. I know what my target allocation and bands are and am notified when I need to rebalance.

RM
RM - is there a template online that you use? I am not good with spreadsheets, but how is it accurate unless you manually input the value of your ETF/fund shares every time you check it, how many shares are owned, etc. Seems like a lot of work unless there is a way it is automatically updated.
I only update weekly, unless there is a MAJOR market move. Mine spreadsheet is custom as I utilize M* style grid analysis and look at weighted average bond duration (both for real and nominal bonds). Entering data takes only a little bit of time, I just use $ as $ = shares x price. I update other data quarterly (expense ratio's and detailed fund data).

RM
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by dpretire »

I was extremely disappointed that the new Portfolio Watch interface no longer allows me to download my asset allocation at the holdings level to Excel (vs CSV file). I need to change the incorrect asset categories of many of my outside holdings to get anywhere near accurate results. I contacted the latest in my series of evolving Vanguard Flagship Representatives and was told that my concern would be added to the Voice of the Customer list. Needless to say this was less than reassuring that anything would ever be done, especially given the gradual decline of Vanguard customer support over the past decades I have been with them. On a positive note, this situation forced me to become acquainted with Perl scripts for editing TXT files and Pivot tables in Excel. By copying and pasting the detailed holdings data displayed on the screen in Portfolio Watch I can now semi-automatically move my asset allocation data into Excel where I can correct the asset categories and analyze my total portfolio as I would like. Although I can now do the entire process in about 10 minutes for over 100 separate holdings spread over 15 different accounts....don't ask :) , the process is not for the faint of heart. If Vanguard changes the format of their webpage I will have to modify my Perl script accordingly. This solution is painful but works for now. Can't wait until the inevitable cognitive decline kicks in. At that point I may have to pony up the advisor fees and have a "professional" do all of this for me. Overall the decreased functionality of Vanguard's Portfolio Watch appears to be in keeping with their general decline in customer service. So sad that I have come to accept this lower standard of customer focus as inevitable.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look

Post by gmoproJB »

dkturner wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:22 am Nice format. Bogus data, but it’s presented in an elegant format.
[/quote

Hmmm. The old printout pdf had much more information! This doesnt have much in the saveable PDF!
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look

Post by gmoproJB »

yarnandthread wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:40 am Yes, the breakdowns are more specific and detailed now than before with regards to cap. weights and sector percentages. That is good.

The bad: what I do not like is the lack of precision in regards to the asset allocation....whole numbers only?? I liked the old way of having a decimal point and the number to the nearest tenth. That was useful to me. I hope they can bring that back!
The prior PDF output was wayyy more detailed. It was 50 pages. This is like 4 pages. The printout barely provides anything. I used to save the PDFs. Need the PDF to reflect more!
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Re: New Portfolio Watch Tool

Post by gmoproJB »

pinchalik wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:23 pm
BoutBenjamins wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am [Post merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Logged on to VG today and found they've rolled out their new version of the Portfolio Watch Tool. Having spent time using it I can definitely say it's "Underwhelming"..... Don't like it.

IMO this new version is a long way from improved and is NOT user friendly. Of course it has a new look but it's visually spread out instead of concise, you have to drill down endlessly and if you have multiple accounts, you have to scroll endlessly to view fund information. But the biggest MISS is you no longer can download data from the PW tool, the only option is to print it. How could the designers not include an option to download data? For people like myself who manage their own money, it's critical to be able to download data and get it into a useable format like excel. But therein lies the real issue, management doesn't want me to manage my own money, the want me to pay an advisor.

To top things off, when I called to schedule an appointment to discuss all this with my "advisor" his calendar shows he's out for the next two weeks. Called to see if there was someone else I could speak with and got nowhere.

Been with VG a long time but they've become so large they've lost their customer focus. Very frustrating
I agree wholeheartedly. I could've written this myself! Removing the ability to download data to excel/CSV is a huge step backwards. What were they thinking? Like you, I manage my own money, and I *need* that download capability. I sent a secure message to my advisor and received a response within the hour. She's going to forward it on to the appropriate team and also let me know if there is some way to download data that I'm not seeing. I'm hoping that a *lot* of people are going to complain!
The onscreen analysis is okay, but how come the report is not detailed now?? It used to be 50 pages long. Now it is 4 pages. Why? What is on the screen is not in the PDF printable report! Silly. I want to save a report that has the info that is shown on the screen. that is the problem with this new layout. i have to write it down now if i want to compare to US Market. Unreal.
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Re: Portfolio Watch change on Vanguard website

Post by gmoproJB »

babapanda wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:46 pm My stock analysis doesn't include my outside investments. Did you get that info when you drilled down?
They always did that using just the Vanguard stock funds. It said it on the screen.
Why is the PDF not detailed though. 4 pages? Used to be 50. The info on the screen is not in the report. Dont like that.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look

Post by gmoproJB »

beyou wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:47 am 1 step forward and 2 steps (at least) backwards, for me.

Forward :

Non vanguard funds have better data, splitting us vs international from global bond funds. Not excited but an improvement.

Backward :

UI is much less user friendly.

My Savings bonds in outside holdings, where I manually entered credit quality and rate sensitivity, are now just “other bonds”, ignoring the categorization data previously included.

Overall a step backwards but nothing to cry about.
And the PDF report is no good now. It doesnt give you all the info on the screens. That used to be very detailed, now it is very basic. I used to save them. Now i have to write stuff on paper from the screen. Why is the report so weak now? it should have more detail. i want to save the pdf and print out the report but it is not the same detail as on screen. That is no good.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look

Post by gmoproJB »

goingup wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 am There are improvements-
Wellington now shows international component
Domestic bond funds show international bond component
REIT breakdown shows mid and small, not just small

The bad-
I find it harder to read, less compact. Lots of white space.
How about the actual printable report??? Did you try that? It is only 4 pages and doesnt give you lots of detail.
That is the worst part there. What is on screen is not all in the report. Not sure why. i will have to write stuff onto the printable report. Crazy. Vanguard, fix the PDF and make it like it was... chock full of information, not just basics.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

Both the Firefox and Chrome browsers allow you to "Print" the webpage to a PDF file. It's not the same as a report, but will give you the numbers you need.

Be sure to treat that file as sensitive information - it's chock full of financials. Save it to an encrypted drive or somewhere that's only accessible by you.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by beyou »

Personally I think the web based results are all I need, I don't print nor save to PDF for asset allocation.

What I want is accurate info to make decisions.
I find that the results are fine as long as you find appropriate "proxies" for holdings you have that aren't really public securities.
For instance my 401k has collective investment trusts that have no source of public pricing nor asset class data.
But I selected close equivalent public funds from the same fund family.
For my savings bonds, I picked a US gov bond fund that is similar in nature, divide my balance by the fund NAV and enter the resulting shares
for the proxy fund. The only issue is I have to update the number of shares periodically. When my balance is updated at month end on treasury direct, I update the share balance for the proxy fund (same for 401k proxy funds).

The new version is actually working better for me than the old version, for my particular funds and proxy funds,
as far as including all funds in the right asset classes and categories such as US vs Int, rate sensitivity, credit quality.

Look at feel was fine/better before but the data quality is more important. I tried to achieve the same with old version and came pretty close
to my needs, now a bit better. YMMV depending on your holdings in particular, you have to look carefully at the detailed results and make sure you agree that the category for each fund makes sense. For those held at Vanguard, could be a bigger problem as it's not easy to change those (you can exclude them from Portfolio Watch and include a proxy but what a pain). Fortunately for my Vanguard held securities/funds it looks fine, and for non-vanguard external portfolios my proxies are working well.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by RoboFan »

There was quite a bit of discussion about the new analysis reporting Vanguard’s Total Bond Index (VBTLX) having 11% of the bonds classified as foreign. I looked at my account today and confirmed this is still the case. The Website FAQ has a section that reads:
Why is my asset allocation different from the previous Portfolio Watch analyses?
Prior to April 2021, Portfolio Watch based asset allocation and fund characteristics on a fund's long-term strategy. Portfolio Watch now examines each of a fund's underlying holdings to provide a more detailed view of your asset allocation.

This may cause your asset allocation to differ from a previous analysis if an owned fund contains a portion of assets not aligned to its long-term goal. An example of this are domestic funds with a small amount of international assets
But, I’m still confused. The Annual report ending December 31 of last year indicted the fund had a sovereign allocation of 4.1%, but this is a long way from 11%. Is the 11% number correct?
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

FYI - Fidelity has a competing tool. From: Re: Fidelity Total Market in taxable - FZROX (ZERO) vs. FSKAX (Total Market) SmackDown:
LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:20 am
okwriter wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:26 pm Speaking of tools, Fidelity GPS (found on the "Analysis" tab) is very handy. It's like Vanguard's portfolio watch, except the calculations are actually correct. And it allows you to add your non-Fidelity accounts as well.
Thanks! I updated the wiki: Tools and calculators (Fidelity)
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by RoboFan »

Do you need a Fidelity asccount?
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by cspitzer »

When I checked today, Portfolio Watch is now characterizing my investments in the following bond index funds as other as opposed to bifurcating them between U.S. and international bonds. I am now getting an alert that holding more foreign bonds would potentially increase the level of diversification within my portfolio.

Schwab U.S. Aggregate Bond Index Fund
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares
Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund Admiral Shares
Fidelity U.S. Bond Index Fund

I also got an alert that Portfolio Watch can't comment on my mix of domestic stock holdings because Vanguard is unable to categorize a substantial portion of my portfolio. Approximately 99% of my domestic stock holdings are in Vanguard broad market stock index funds and tax managed funds.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

RoboFan wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:47 am Do you need a Fidelity asccount?
Yes. If you don't have one, it's easy to create (Open an Account). You don't need to put any money into the account. It can sit there at 0.00 just fine.

The wiki info: Tools and calculators (Fidelity)

I gave it a test drive and I'm very impressed. There's even a fixed income analysis tool as part of the Analysis tab. You can also download a PDF report. Nice.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by pascalwager »

I can understand using PW if all of your assets are at Vanguard, and you have a simple portfolio. Otherwise, I'd advise trying free Google Sheets. I doubt that it's possible, for example, to duration-weight a collection of bond funds every year, at least, on PW during retirement.

Also, I suppose some people say PW is good enough--for them. Can't argue with that, but I do have a more complicated portfolio and a spreadsheet (with a price-importation function) is mandatory.

The one basic advantage for PW, of course, is the perfect availability of asset share quantities. You don't need to update these each month/quarter.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

pascalwager wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:54 pm I can understand using PW if all of your assets are at Vanguard, and you have a simple portfolio. Otherwise, I'd advise trying free Google Sheets. I doubt that it's possible, for example, to duration-weight a collection of bond funds every year, at least, on PW during retirement.

Also, I suppose some people say PW is good enough--for them. Can't argue with that, but I do have a more complicated portfolio and a spreadsheet (with a price-importation function) is mandatory.

The one basic advantage for PW, of course, is the perfect availability of asset share quantities. You don't need to update these each month/quarter.
Where would one obtain these free google sheets?
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by pascalwager »

Tubes wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:01 pm
pascalwager wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:54 pm I can understand using PW if all of your assets are at Vanguard, and you have a simple portfolio. Otherwise, I'd advise trying free Google Sheets. I doubt that it's possible, for example, to duration-weight a collection of bond funds every year, at least, on PW during retirement.

Also, I suppose some people say PW is good enough--for them. Can't argue with that, but I do have a more complicated portfolio and a spreadsheet (with a price-importation function) is mandatory.

The one basic advantage for PW, of course, is the perfect availability of asset share quantities. You don't need to update these each month/quarter.
Where would one obtain these free google sheets?
They're in GoogleDrive.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:50 pm
RoboFan wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:47 am Do you need a Fidelity asccount?
Yes. If you don't have one, it's easy to create (Open an Account). You don't need to put any money into the account. It can sit there at 0.00 just fine.

The wiki info: Tools and calculators (Fidelity)

I gave it a test drive and I'm very impressed. There's even a fixed income analysis tool as part of the Analysis tab. You can also download a PDF report. Nice.
I gave it a test drive and bought it. :D

Fidelity's GPS is so much better than VG's broken portfolio watch. It was easy to add my VG holdings on the outside investment accounts. I will qualify it though: my first try failed with an "Add Manual Account Error, please try later." I found that adding all my holdings at once encountered a bug in their system. Instead, I added a few holdings, hit save, then added more and it worked. It accurately calculates most VG holdings, although it threw a few Wellesely in the "Unavailable" bond sector style. All of this information is easily accessible via various tabs. It shows you exactly how everything is categorized.

It is especially good that it deals with my 401k and HSA automatically, which I hold at Fidelity.

One more thing: I added my Treasury Direct holdings by creating an "Other Taxable" account and just entering my total under "Additional holdings, Bonds". I had to add at least one holding first, so I added $1 using VMFXX. This came out as "Unavailable" in the bond style. I need to find an analog for something like TD notes/bills. (EDIT: maybe my answer is VMFXX, of course!)

It isn't perfect, but it gets me a heck of a lot closer than the broken VG tool.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

Tubes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:07 am One more thing: I added my Treasury Direct holdings by creating an "Other Taxable" account and just entering my total under "Additional holdings, Bonds". I had to add at least one holding first, so I added $1 using VMFXX. This came out as "Unavailable" in the bond style. I need to find an analog for something like TD notes/bills. (EDIT: maybe my answer is VMFXX, of course!)
I did a quick check by typing "VMFXX" in the Fidelity search box. It showed up, but I got a "Mutual Fund Symbol is Not Valid" error.
The symbol you're interested in is either not a valid Mutual Fund or is a fund that's not available on Fidelity.com.
If the fund isn't available at Fidelity, they won't have the data. Type "Money" in the Fidelity search box for a range of money market choices, such as SPAXX.

On a related note, Fidelity doesn't give you the full performance numbers for outside funds or ETFs. That's to be expected, as it's not their product. They have some info, but not all of it. So, stick with Fidelity funds for analysis. If you need to dive into the details, get the numbers from the fund / ETF provider's site directly.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:30 am
Tubes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:07 am One more thing: I added my Treasury Direct holdings by creating an "Other Taxable" account and just entering my total under "Additional holdings, Bonds". I had to add at least one holding first, so I added $1 using VMFXX. This came out as "Unavailable" in the bond style. I need to find an analog for something like TD notes/bills. (EDIT: maybe my answer is VMFXX, of course!)
I did a quick check by typing "VMFXX" in the Fidelity search box. It showed up, but I got a "Mutual Fund Symbol is Not Valid" error.
The symbol you're interested in is either not a valid Mutual Fund or is a fund that's not available on Fidelity.com.
If the fund isn't available at Fidelity, they won't have the data. Type "Money" in the Fidelity search box for a range of money market choices, such as SPAXX.

On a related note, Fidelity doesn't give you the full performance numbers for outside funds or ETFs. That's to be expected, as it's not their product. They have some info, but not all of it. So, stick with Fidelity funds for analysis. If you need to dive into the details, get the numbers from the fund / ETF provider's site directly.
Yeah, there's data, and there's data. I guess what I'm mostly looking for is AA data - stock, bond, cash. Of course the foreign holdings, bond duration, company size, risk is important too. GPS does a decent job on most of the VG equity funds.

It punts on the VG bond allocations like that which is in Wellesley, but at least it knows it is a bond. I'm finding it also punts on one of the 401k funds I have on Fido netbenefits from Megacorp 1. It isn't an official FIDO fund, so it punts the details.

For VMFXX it at least gets that it is short term. This is not a good analog for my 2 year treasury notes. I'll figure something else out.

BTW, it is easy to add a new account and do a quick test like this:
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Ha ha, the irony here is it does give me a "kudo" for not concentrating in one company -- because I have NO companies on this test portfolio.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Yes, Fidelity follows "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle". They will tell you about diversification. Also, low costs.

How did you add VMFXX? In my Fidelity account, clicking on "Add non-Fidelity accounts" to the summary page opens a message box about digital currency. I close the box and the process stops.

I do see instructions for Viewing Other Accounts, but I don't see anything at the bottom of the Summary page titled "View Other Accounts". According to the help, you don't need an online account and can add investments manually.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by livesoft »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:45 amHow did you add VMFXX?
The Fidelity Analysis tab (aka GPS) allows one to add logical / virtual accounts at will. And also to group investments at will. I posted about this back in the day: viewtopic.php?p=2248876#p2248876

These investments / accounts do not show up elsewhere in your Fidelity account.

One can then "select" via a check box which 'accounts' that one wishes to include in the X-ray analysis and which accounts that one wishes to exclude in the X-ray analysis. For instance, I put my benchmark funds that I do not own in a separate account and occasionally X-ray it.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

Yes, I did indeed read your 2014 post (Re: How to use Vanguard Portfolio Watch for rebalancing). Regardless of the missing images (thanks to tinypic), the actual steps for adding an external account weren't clear to me.

Thanks, I figured it out. Outside accounts are added under the "3 of 7 Accounts Selected" drop-down menu (as you show in your post). Click on the "Add an Outside Account" link in the top-right corner. Add the account manually. Or, add it to Full View. Easy. Done. The real-time lookup is nice.

I'll add this to the wiki when I get a chance.

Also, I just added this thread to the wiki: Vanguard Portfolio Watch and Tools and calculators (Vanguard)
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:21 am Yes, I did indeed read your 2014 post (Re: How to use Vanguard Portfolio Watch for rebalancing). Regardless of the missing images (thanks to tinypic), the actual steps for adding an external account weren't clear to me.

Thanks, I figured it out. Outside accounts are added under the "3 of 7 Accounts Selected" drop-down menu (as you show in your post). Click on the "Add an Outside Account" link in the top-right corner. Add the account manually. Or, add it to Full View. Easy. Done. The real-time lookup is nice.

I'll add this to the wiki when I get a chance.

Also, I just added this thread to the wiki: Vanguard Portfolio Watch and Tools and calculators (Vanguard)
Yes. You got it. Thumbs up. This is what sold me after the test drive.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by tarnation »

I got excited about Fidelity since I already have a small HSA there. I tried to add an account with a login i.e. Full View. It said it didn't know/couldn't find TDAmeritrade! :confused
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by tarnation »

tarnation wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:29 am I got excited about Fidelity since I already have a small HSA there. I tried to add an account with a login i.e. Full View. It said it didn't know/couldn't find TDAmeritrade! :confused
Actually, it worked when I just put in ameritrade. But it could even resolve it when I put in the exact website url. When added it says it is a checking account. So I guess I'm back to my work around with VG portfolio thing.
edit: It looks like you can edit what type of account it is. So maybe there is hope still.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Did changing the Account Type work?

I have revised the wiki to give more detail for the Outside Account entries: Tools and calculators (Fidelity)
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by okwriter »

Tubes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:07 am It was easy to add my VG holdings on the outside investment accounts.
There's an easier way to add external accounts to Fidelity GPS - if you add the account on Full View, it will also show up on GPS. It works for me using my Vanguard login. This way it gets automatically updated.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

Thanks. I added Full View to the instructions: Tools and calculators (Fidelity)

I don't have anything setup with Full View. Please double-check what I wrote. Feel free to correct or provide more detail.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by livesoft »

Big differences between Full View and manually adding for me are that with the latter I do not have to share login credentials with anyone and I can put in assets that I do actually possess for comparison and I can create virtual groupings of any assets that do not match my physical assets.
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