Fed up With Flagship

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Topic Author
Jimmbo
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:35 pm

Fed up With Flagship

Post by Jimmbo »

Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.

Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
User avatar
arcticpineapplecorp.
Posts: 6497
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

Jimmbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.

Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
depends.

should there be two tiers of service, one for higher investment balances and one for people with lower investment balances?

what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
stan1
Posts: 9210
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by stan1 »

Do you want better service at no additional cost, or do you want to pay for it?

I'd probably suggest Fidelity if you don't want to pay for a higher level of service.
User avatar
Nate79
Posts: 6542
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Nate79 »

If you want the phone number for excellent customer service here it is: 800-435-4000

.
.
.
.
That's the phone number for Schwab. :sharebeer
mak1277
Posts: 1628
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by mak1277 »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm
should there be two tiers of service, one for higher investment balances and one for people with lower investment balances?
of course there should be.
Topic Author
Jimmbo
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Jimmbo »

I want perqs, freebies, and extra consideration, generally. I'm not a luxe person, but flagship (while it existed as an actual thing) spoiled me.

I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
aristotelian
Posts: 8269
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by aristotelian »

I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
Last edited by aristotelian on Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Da5id
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Da5id »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm should there be two tiers of service, one for higher investment balances and one for people with lower investment balances?
I assume that Vanguard was doing this because higher balance customers generate more revenue. So there is no "right" to two tiers of service, but they saw a business reason to do it. This is kinda comparable to higher balance customers getting Admiral (or Institutional) levels of funds. I guess Vanguard doesn't see the need for all the benefits at Flagship any more (at least until you get to $5M). I haven't noticed any issues with Vanguard Flagship, loss of personal rep hasn't bothered me.
User avatar
zaboomafoozarg
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Exactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.
MikeG62
Posts: 3257
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by MikeG62 »

Jimmbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.

Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
In my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
Kompass
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:42 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Kompass »

MikeG62 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:59 pm
Jimmbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.

Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
In my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.
+1

Over the last three years I've moved $5m out of Vanguard were clearly no longer interested in my business. Fidelity Private Client Group has been a good experience so far, they do not try to upsell me at all and have people capable of answering my very occasional question. :beer
The large print giveth and the fine print taketh away.
marcopolo
Posts: 3643
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by marcopolo »

aristotelian wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:55 pm I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
You know it is possible to get low fees and good service, right?

I am not sure how Vanguard has managed to convince people that atrocious customer service is the price one has to pay for low cost investments, especially when even Vanguard ETFs (if one feels the need) are available at no cost at other brokerages that are willing to provide better customer service.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
marcopolo
Posts: 3643
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by marcopolo »

MikeG62 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:59 pm
Jimmbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.

Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
In my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.
This exactly!

I have had accounts at Fidelity and vanguard for a while. Eventually consolidated to Fidelity.

There is no comparison in customer service between the two. Fidelity PCG reps answer phone quickly, rarely any wait time at all (24/7!), and are extremely knowledgable. If they are unable to handle something, they have access to specialists that they will get on the line for you.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
marcopolo
Posts: 3643
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by marcopolo »

zaboomafoozarg wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:56 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Exactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.
A Yugo will provide everything a car will do. But, some people choose to drive nicer cars, especially if there is no additional cost.

Being able to call rep when it is convenient for me, not just during business hours during the week.

Getting a rep on the line without long wait times.

Getting knowledgeable reps every time someone answers the phone.

Oh yeah, Free TurboTax!
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
nedsaid
Posts: 13954
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by nedsaid »

zaboomafoozarg wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:56 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Exactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.
It is a bit of an ego thing. We all like to believe that we are unique and special. I can't speak for anyone else but I do like perks and I do like special treatment. At the same time, I recognize that companies have to keep costs in mind. I don't see this as an either/or thing. A human touch and a connection with an organization still counts with me. Others may not care about things that I care about and that is okay.
A fool and his money are good for business.
Broken Man 1999
Posts: 5319
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am
Location: West coast of Florida, inland on high ground!

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

The Flagship level should be discontinued, or, at the very least, re-launched at the level that requires a undated dollar amount.

Maybe $5mil, as $1mil just isn't what it was however long ago the Flagship level was created.

Today a $1,000,000 portfolio isn't generating the different fees/ERs that were in play so many years ago.

Stick a fork in the current $1mil Flagship level, it should be done.

Maybe move the current Flagship Select to Flagship with $5mil minimum, keep those over $5mil as Flagship Select.

I won't be at a $5mil level anytime soon, if ever. OTOH, my current Flagship level doesn't offer me much. I can afford to buy tax software, and my portfolio is so slap-forehead simple I need no planning.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
User avatar
galawdawg
Posts: 1421
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:59 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by galawdawg »

I moved to E*TRADE last year after thirty years at Vanguard and experiencing a decline in competence, service and benefits over the past few years. Unlike Fidelity and Schwab, they offer most Vanguard mutual funds with no transaction fees. I've been very pleased with the level of customer service at E*TRADE.

Here was a thread I posted on the subject: viewtopic.php?t=291658

Right now, E*TRADE has a generous bonus offer with $2,500 for a $1 million transfer. If you have more than $1 million, check with a local advisor as they can sometimes sweeten the pot. https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
tibbitts
Posts: 12277
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by tibbitts »

Jimmbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:54 pm I want perqs, freebies, and extra consideration, generally. I'm not a luxe person, but flagship (while it existed as an actual thing) spoiled me.

I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
I've been Flagship for quite a while and never asked for or received any of the things you mentioned. So I'm not seeing how Flagship could spoil anyone. Maybe you were Flagship Select, or whatever the (unnamed?) higher tier beyond that is? What actual cash value did you receive from Flagship? What is "extra consideration"?
tibbitts
Posts: 12277
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by tibbitts »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:26 pm The Flagship level should be discontinued, or, at the very least, re-launched at the level that requires a undated dollar amount.
Excellent point. Vanguard should simply adjust the minimum Flagship asset level to my current account balance at any given time. But seriously, I don't think I ever received any benefit from Flagship, so if they want to pick $10M or $100M or whatever level I'll never have, so be it.
User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 5497
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by FIREchief »

Count your blessings. I was forced to deal with Merrill Edge recently... :annoyed
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
User avatar
FelixTheCat
Posts: 1915
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:39 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by FelixTheCat »

I've never needed my Flagship rep. I'm curious. What service(s) do you need?
Felix is a wonderful, wonderful cat.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 6042
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by SmileyFace »

When I log into Fidelity I see a nice picture of my Rep (whom I don't pay for). I don't know what the minimum balance is to get assigned a specific person but good to know I have one person I can call for any advise/questions. I have a similar amount sitting at Vanguard and don't seem to have a person. What I get with Vanguard is a splash screen (sometimes) trying to push me to PAS. So that's my guess as to why they don't provide you someone - want you to pay for PAS.
marcopolo
Posts: 3643
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by marcopolo »

nedsaid wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:24 pm
zaboomafoozarg wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:56 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Exactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.
It is a bit of an ego thing. We all like to believe that we are unique and special. I can't speak for anyone else but I do like perks and I do like special treatment. At the same time, I recognize that companies have to keep costs in mind. I don't see this as an either/or thing. A human touch and a connection with an organization still counts with me. Others may not care about things that I care about and that is okay.
People seem to keep making this a choice between low cost and good service, as if the only way to get low cost is to suffer through poor service. There seems to be plenty of other low cost providers that somehow manage to provide superior service.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
grok87
Posts: 9162
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:00 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by grok87 »

i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.


but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.

cheers,
grok
RIP Mr. Bogle.
aristotelian
Posts: 8269
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by aristotelian »

marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:11 pm
aristotelian wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:55 pm I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
You know it is possible to get low fees and good service, right?

I am not sure how Vanguard has managed to convince people that atrocious customer service is the price one has to pay for low cost investments, especially when even Vanguard ETFs (if one feels the need) are available at no cost at other brokerages that are willing to provide better customer service.
Sure. It is also possible to make that service available to everyone. I certainly don't see why vanilla users should be subsidizing the whales.
Da5id
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Da5id »

aristotelian wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:44 pm Sure. It is also possible to make that service available to everyone. I certainly don't see why vanilla users should be subsidizing the whales.
Dubious it works that way. I suspect a customer with $1M generates much more net income for Vanguard than than one with $10K invested. I doubt the $1M customer uses 100x more services.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 3371
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by rob »

grok87 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:38 pm but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
Ownership is irrelevant IMO; it's about management and some are able to walk and chew gum.... It's sad Vanguard has let the wheels fall off.

Generally....
"Flagship" is just a marketing name; Vanguard used to have good service but now average is the minority of interactions.... With a specific rep they were usually knowledgeable and knew their internal systems; seems to be a mob of 1st week employees now. Without locked in cap gains in non-etf funds, I would have laughed it off and moved..... yeah yeah yeah I know... transfer in kind blah blah... It's just not that easy. I will be forced to make a change when they force a brokerage acct on me anyway.

To the people that never call.. good for you... You obviously don't have accounts with poor IT restrictions that force you to talk to a person or never trip over a case where you have to talk to a human to fix an error made by Vanguard - no one there takes responsibility or actually fixes much without talking to 2 other "specialist" people.

I don't care about the labels... but I want someone to answer the phone in a reasonable period and have the answers when they do....
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Dave55
Posts: 829
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Dave55 »

Fidelity and Schwab are both excellent.

Dave
sport
Posts: 9662
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by sport »

grok87 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:38 pm i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.


but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
I am also confident that if/when I lose my financial abilities, Vanguard will not try to take advantage of me by selling me expensive products. Similarly, when I am no longer around, they will not try to take advantage of my heirs. I don't have that confidence in the other companies. "Oh Mrs. Sport, I am so sorry to learn of your loss. While we are in the process of transferring Mr. Sport's holdings to your account, we have some exciting new products to offer..."
marcopolo
Posts: 3643
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by marcopolo »

aristotelian wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:44 pm
marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:11 pm
aristotelian wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:55 pm I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
You know it is possible to get low fees and good service, right?

I am not sure how Vanguard has managed to convince people that atrocious customer service is the price one has to pay for low cost investments, especially when even Vanguard ETFs (if one feels the need) are available at no cost at other brokerages that are willing to provide better customer service.
Sure. It is also possible to make that service available to everyone. I certainly don't see why vanilla users should be subsidizing the whales.
I don't think that is how it works.

Even at 5 basis points, large account holders are subsidizing the small account holders. Without the large "whales", the small retail investor most likely would be paying a lot more for financial services. The negligible perks given to the large customers still has them paying a disproportionate amount of the cost for running the financial services firm, and their profits.

In either case, it is a really poor excuse for not providing good customer service.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
obgraham
Posts: 1282
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:30 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by obgraham »

It boggles my mind that investors will plonk a couple of million into a company like Vanguard, then get all out of joint that they can't have a free TurboTax. Really? That's what you think is important?

Obviously, some folks here are expecting something more from Vanguard than I do. I've been with them for 26 years, and during that time have called them perhaps 6 times. I always found their customer service just fine, and on one occasion where the rep said he needed to check with someone else, he was back at me within an hour. Sure, they used to list a specific name as your Flagship person, but they weren't ever available when I called -- strictly a marketing ploy.

If every other company I dealt with had as good service as Vanguard I would be a happy man indeed.
backpacker61
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 6:36 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by backpacker61 »

FelixTheCat wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:58 pm I've never needed my Flagship rep. I'm curious. What service(s) do you need?
The death of a family member can make you a very intense user of your brokerage's services until everything is dispositioned.

Onboarding (asset transfers from consolidation), trust services (Trustee certification, Trust retitling), cost basis adjustment because of cost basis step-up, etc.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
grok87
Posts: 9162
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:00 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by grok87 »

rob wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:54 pm
grok87 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:38 pm but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
Ownership is irrelevant IMO; it's about management and some are able to walk and chew gum.... It's sad Vanguard has let the wheels fall off.

Generally....
"Flagship" is just a marketing name; Vanguard used to have good service but now average is the minority of interactions.... With a specific rep they were usually knowledgeable and knew their internal systems; seems to be a mob of 1st week employees now. Without locked in cap gains in non-etf funds, I would have laughed it off and moved..... yeah yeah yeah I know... transfer in kind blah blah... It's just not that easy. I will be forced to make a change when they force a brokerage acct on me anyway.

To the people that never call.. good for you... You obviously don't have accounts with poor IT restrictions that force you to talk to a person or never trip over a case where you have to talk to a human to fix an error made by Vanguard - no one there takes responsibility or actually fixes much without talking to 2 other "specialist" people.

I don't care about the labels... but I want someone to answer the phone in a reasonable period and have the answers when they do....
thanks.
yeah i'm waiting to be forced into brokerage accts too
RIP Mr. Bogle.
grok87
Posts: 9162
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:00 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by grok87 »

sport wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:10 pm
grok87 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:38 pm i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.


but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
I am also confident that if/when I lose my financial abilities, Vanguard will not try to take advantage of me by selling me expensive products. Similarly, when I am no longer around, they will not try to take advantage of my heirs. I don't have that confidence in the other companies. "Oh Mrs. Sport, I am so sorry to learn of your loss. While we are in the process of transferring Mr. Sport's holdings to your account, we have some exciting new products to offer..."
agree
RIP Mr. Bogle.
illumination
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:13 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by illumination »

I've been impressed with Schwab, I have a really responsive local "team" that I don't pay a penny for that is my contact when I have an issue. Has not been aggressive at all with any type of upselling either, which I appreciate. They even offer to pick things up or deliver them to my home.

I don't know what the threshold is for getting that, but I had a large-ish brokerage account and was a customer for like 25+ years at Wells Fargo and I might as well have had 50 cents in my account. Night and day difference.

I also had a poor experience at Vanguard, left and never looked back.
User avatar
Rowan Oak
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:11 pm
Location: Yoknapatawpha

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Rowan Oak »

I've been with Vanguard 20+ years.
Service was fine the 4-5 times I've called or emailed over the years.
For me, it's also about knowing that when I'm gone my wife can use the Vanguard Personal Advisor Services if she needs to and not be charged an unfair management fee.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger
Seasonal
Posts: 2151
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Seasonal »

MikeG62 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:59 pmIn my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.
The Private Client Group link on Fidelity's web site leads to Wealth Management, with a fee of 0.5% to 1.5% of assets. https://www.fidelity.com/sitemap/overview

Or is there another PCG that's open to new Fidelity clients?
sport
Posts: 9662
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by sport »

Seasonal wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:57 pm
MikeG62 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:59 pmIn my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.
The Private Client Group link on Fidelity's web site leads to Wealth Management, with a fee of 0.5% to 1.5% of assets. https://www.fidelity.com/sitemap/overview

Or is there another PCG that's open to new Fidelity clients?
Will Fidelity's Wealth Management use low cost index funds, or will they use some of Fidelity's high fee products? If they do, then you get to pay the high expense ratios on top of the management fee.
afan
Posts: 5282
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by afan »

Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.

I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.

I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.

If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.

I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.

I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.

Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
mindboggling
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:35 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by mindboggling »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:38 pm Right now, E*TRADE has a generous bonus offer with $2,500 for a $1 million transfer. If you have more than $1 million, check with a local advisor as they can sometimes sweeten the pot. https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
I moved a little over a million from Vanguard to Schwab this past spring and also received a $2500 transfer bonus. Often brokerages will match what other brokers are offering. Never hurts to ask. You'll have to speak with an "advisor". The chat reps can't commit.
In broken mathematics, We estimate our prize, --Emily Dickinson
User avatar
mokaThought
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:57 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by mokaThought »

Jimmbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:54 pm I want perqs, freebies, and extra consideration, generally. I'm not a luxe person, but flagship (while it existed as an actual thing) spoiled me.

I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
hedge funds
70% stocks — 63% US TSM, 27% FTSE Dev Mkt All Cap ex-US, 10% REIT | 30% bonds — 50% TSP G Fund, 50% TSP F Fund
User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 5497
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by FIREchief »

afan wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm Pretty close to the ideal investment company.

Are they now answering the phones nights and weekends? :D
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Beehave
Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Beehave »

afan wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.

I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.

I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.

If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.

I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.

I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.

Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
+1

I've had bad experiences with Fidelity. Maybe they've changed. But the post above captures the essence of the delta between a for-profit brokerage and Vanguard. When times get tight, the wheel will turn at the for-profit company and the up-selling and obfuscation will near certainly follow. I want to do business with a company I feel I'll be able to trust, especially when I'm older. For me, based on years of experience, that is Vanguard.
Da5id
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by Da5id »

I've had good experiences with both Vanguard and Fidelity. I've had ongoing interactions with Vanguard about inheriting IRAs this year, they have been very helpful and responsive. Vanguard has been pushing PAS recently, but hasn't bothered me.
ronno2018
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:31 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by ronno2018 »

afan wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.

I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.

I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.

If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.

I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.

I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.

Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
I mean really it is a CO-OP and if you join you benefit. Those who do not join and just buy their products also benefit and that is OK too. "Founder John C. Bogle structured Vanguard as a client-owned* mutual fund company with no outside owners seeking profits."
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 6042
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by SmileyFace »

Beehave wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:02 pm
afan wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.

I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.

I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.

If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.

I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.

I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.

Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
+1

I've had bad experiences with Fidelity. Maybe they've changed. But the post above captures the essence of the delta between a for-profit brokerage and Vanguard. When times get tight, the wheel will turn at the for-profit company and the up-selling and obfuscation will near certainly follow. I want to do business with a company I feel I'll be able to trust, especially when I'm older. For me, based on years of experience, that is Vanguard.
My experience is the opposite. Started moving new taxable investing there. I talked to my free Fidelity Rep about investing in either VTI or ITOT - ability to buy fractional shares (which I believe you still can't do at Vanguard). The Fidelity Rep didn't even try to steer me to a Fidelity Fund which is what I expected. Meanwhile Vanguard tries to convince me to change my account type using misinformation and is always peddling PAS to me. My plan is likely now to work towards consilidating at Fidelity. Better and more available support, more knowledgeable service folks, consistent free adivisor, better web experience, better technology and services, etc.
Not sure why people think Vanguard is somehow morally superior. Even though they aren't publically traded note they no longer (change happened shortly after Bogle stepped down) tell you how much their execs are paid or how they are paid. They are looking to squeeze expenses and boost profit like everyone else. Look at the recent outsourcing - don't think more changes aren't possible.
TropikThunder
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by TropikThunder »

grok87 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:32 pm yeah i'm waiting to be forced into brokerage accts too
Can you get a mutual-fund only (non-brokerage) account at Fidelity or Schwab?
eucalyptus
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:24 pm

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by eucalyptus »

Based on my mother's experience, I wouldn't count on Vanguard to do much for your heirs.

For five years or so now, all of our new investment funds have gone to Fidelity. Very happy there. Office a mile or so away, reps very helpful.

sport wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:10 pm
grok87 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:38 pm i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.


but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
I am also confident that if/when I lose my financial abilities, Vanguard will not try to take advantage of me by selling me expensive products. Similarly, when I am no longer around, they will not try to take advantage of my heirs. I don't have that confidence in the other companies. "Oh Mrs. Sport, I am so sorry to learn of your loss. While we are in the process of transferring Mr. Sport's holdings to your account, we have some exciting new products to offer..."
columbia
Posts: 3000
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:30 am

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by columbia »

I've never called Vanguard...

What special treatment is desired?
sport
Posts: 9662
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Fed up With Flagship

Post by sport »

eucalyptus wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:30 pm Based on my mother's experience, I wouldn't count on Vanguard to do much for your heirs.
I don't want my investment company to do much. I just don't want them to take advantage of my heirs. Vanguard does not have salespeople that work on commission and who would like nothing more than to sell high expense products to the unwary.
Post Reply