Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

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BogleBuddy12
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Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by BogleBuddy12 »

A friend told me he has completely embraced day-trading and it’s been phenomenal for him. He said it is a “low risk” way to invest. Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.

He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way. And he holds stocks for an average of 15 minutes.

He also said he has a tool that shows him which stocks the big banks are purchasing, and he will jump in to those positions and then jump out.

I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before. I would love some insight to understand this strategy of investing. I have a small amount of envy hearing about the huge success this strategy has brought him.
Normchad
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Normchad »

Ask to see his tax return when he files next year.....

That will be very illuminating as to how effective it actually was, accounting for losses, trading fees, short term capital gains, etc.

I’m not a believer. Your friend did not suddenly discover an easy, low risk way to make money that millions of other people over looked.

This is what fancy people do, when they don’t want to play the slot machines......
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by FrugalInvestor »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pmI have a small amount of envy hearing about the huge success this strategy has brought him.
I feel exactly the same when I hear stories from acquaintances who spend time in Vegas. I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm not getting the whole story.

Just saw Normchad's post above....we're on the same wavelength.
Last edited by FrugalInvestor on Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by cheese_breath »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm ... I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before....
Enter the words day trading in the google box upper right, and you will see it discussed several times.
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Normchad
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Normchad »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:59 pm
BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pmI have a small amount of envy hearing about the huge success this strategy has brought him.
I feel exactly the same when I hear stories from acquaintances who spend time in Vegas. I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm not getting the whole story.
Yes exactly! I love Vegas. I’m usually about even playing cards. But everybody says they “made money” on their trip. A few times I’ve made a couple hundred on gaming. But the flights, hotels, and meals cost something, and in total I’ve never come home with more money than I left with.

I think day trading is the same way. Maybe you’re close to even, until you account for trading fees and taxes?

Also though, there is an opportunity cost. You could be working a normal day job making something too..... so if I made $1K in a month day trading, it sounds okay. But I could have made 3x that by just going to work....
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Stinky
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Stinky »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before.
If you haven’t seen it discussed on this Forum recently, it’s because day trading is the exact opposite of the Boglehead philosophy.
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000
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by 000 »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm A friend told me he has completely embraced day-trading and it’s been phenomenal for him. He said it is a “low risk” way to invest. Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.
He uses fixed dollar amounts instead of percents?
BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way. And he holds stocks for an average of 15 minutes.
What do you mean by 25% risk? Is he buying stocks worth $4?
luckyducky99
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by luckyducky99 »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm A friend told me he has completely embraced day-trading and it’s been phenomenal for him. He said it is a “low risk” way to invest. Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.
Your friend is deluding himself arithmetically, logically, and with respect to his own view of his abilities to outsmart high frequency traders backed by teams of PhDs and datacenters full of computers.

As for this:
BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way.
This statement is literally nonsense. That combination of words doesn't mean anything at all, let alone anything true.

The latest Ben Felix videos is about specifically this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhHOmZVAqBE
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Brianmcg321
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Brianmcg321 »

Lol.

Day trading is the fastest way to go broke.
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Random Musings
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Random Musings »

If only I could channel The Amazing Randi to look into this.

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nedsaid
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by nedsaid »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm A friend told me he has completely embraced day-trading and it’s been phenomenal for him. He said it is a “low risk” way to invest. Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.

He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way. And he holds stocks for an average of 15 minutes.

He also said he has a tool that shows him which stocks the big banks are purchasing, and he will jump in to those positions and then jump out.

I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before. I would love some insight to understand this strategy of investing. I have a small amount of envy hearing about the huge success this strategy has brought him.
A few comments. First, your friend will tell you about his successes but not his failures. Second, the markets are pretty darned efficient. Third, your friend is up against people with more knowledge, experience, and research abilities than him. Fourth, his competition has better, faster computers and internet bandwidth than he has. Fifth, his competition has better computer software. Sixth, what often happens with day traders is that eventually they will have a big catastrophic loss.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by frequentflyer »

Gamblers only talk about their wins!
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cheese_breath
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by cheese_breath »

Brianmcg321 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:03 pm Lol.

Day trading is the fastest way to go broke.
And I know a person who did. Mortgaged his home to get money to 'invest' to recoup his losses. Lost that money too. Living in a cheap rundown apartment now.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by z3r0c00l »

I know someone who squandered much of her divorce settlement doing just this sort of day trading in the late 90's. It worked for a little while until the early 2000's when it didn't work. She lived the rest of her years with a much diminished retirement, e.g. had to move to a small condo and couldn't travel anymore, because of getting caught up chasing stocks trying to get back losses. It wasn't a nightmare as she still had SS to live on and a small life can still be a good life.

But rest assured, this is just gambling. Every gambler seems to have a system. The $1 loss $5 win scheme doesn't make much sense, since stocks are anywhere between pennies to thousands of dollars per share. $5 up on BRKA means nothing but $1 loss on Kodak would have meant, until recently, a loss of 50%.
Kelrex
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Kelrex »

Yeah...

People discover day trading all the time and think they've struck gold.

This isn't something new, your friend hasn't discovered anything, and if he thinks his "limits" actually have the power to save him from losses, then he genuinely doesn't even remotely understand what he's doing.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by L82GAME »

I’d argue that the implied theme of the post is, “Can I get rich quickly?”.

As my user name indicates, I wish I had learned Boglehead principles long ago, one of the most important being that hard work and aggressive saving builds wealth over a long period of time. Patience and prudence must dominate, not a grasping flash in the pan and risky day trading strategy. As more learned members posted above, day trading is a loser’s game. The House will win.
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Fortune Seeker
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Fortune Seeker »

There were multiple studies on day trading done, for example this:
http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/behfi ... -odean.pdf
Over the typical six month horizon, using lower range assumptions regarding transaction costs, less than 20 percent of day traders earn profits net of transaction costs.
Note: these are profits, they are not benchmarked to market index (I presume results will be even worse then).

Like Warren Buffett has said, "The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient."
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

Never confuse outcome with strategy.

Luck eventually runs out.
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JoMoney
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by JoMoney »

People have more "stories" about why their strategy works then there are strategies being used. Stories can sound compelling, everybody likes compelling reasons that give events more meaning than the result of a coin flip. You would probably find your friends strategy less compelling if they told you they were literally flipping a coin, but it's not an easy task to discern if a strategy actually has an advantage, and disambiguate the result from luck. There will be the same dollar weighted proportion of winners and losers out-performing/under-performing the broad market either way. The market doesn't return anything extra in aggregate from people deciding to trade amongst each other.
I have no way of telling if your friends "strategy" was lucky or if he actually has information giving him an advantage.
I don't believe the strong forms of the "Efficient Market Hypothesis", but I do believe that markets work, and if your friend does have an advantage that can be replicated it won't last. That's the way every business works, it's hard to keep a competitive advantage.
I don't know, but I suspect, that if your friend is making a lot of money really quickly then they are likely taking risks they probably aren't sharing/acknowledging. I've had friends (and engaged a bit in it myself) who used various strategies that appear to 'work' for a time but take some wild swings down before coming back up (sometimes they never come back up). Depending on the strategy the downswings are often much worse then their up swings that merely get them back to even or a slight gain, or they have a long series of small losses before ever hitting a big win - every trading (and gambling strategy) I've seen can be deconstructed to effectively being one or the other... a 'mean reversion' or 'momentum' strategy... and traders will amplify it using single stocks, or leverage (or synthetic leverage in derivatives like options).

I choose just to buy a broad swath of businesses, that I expect over time will earn profits and grow in value from that, returning something close to the broad average of what businesses earn, and skip the speculative "trading" game for my savings/investment. When I want a speculative thrill I'll take a few dollars to the casino, and not mix one with the other.
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Rowan Oak
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Rowan Oak »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:08 am Never confuse outcome with strategy.

Luck eventually runs out.
This.

Reminds me of what Annie Duke calls "Resulting" in her book Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts
We tend to equate the quality of a decision with the quality of its outcome. Poker players have a word for this: "resulting." When I started playing poker, more experienced players warned me about the dangers of resulting, cautioning me to resist the temptation to change my strategy just because a few hands didn't turn out well in the short-run.

Resulting is a routine thinking pattern that bedevils all of us. Drawing an overly tight relationship between results and decision quality affects our decisions every day, potentially with far-reaching, catastrophic consequences.
Last edited by Rowan Oak on Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Sandtrap »

What I've heard from friends and acquaintances and family: (and, my usual response)

"My Edward Jone's Advisor told me that my stock portfolio made $50,000 last month. He's great!"
(Wow! That is great.)

"I leave all that investing money stuff for my wealth manager to take care of. Did you see my new Porsche?"
(Nice car, Ted. Did you pay cash?)

(Checks cell phone all day) "I just made $18,000 since we started on the lst hole. Day trading is the best!"
(We're falling behind. The marshal's already gave a one warning. You're up to tee off. Driver?"

We've been able to sustain a decent monthly income on my day trading. It helps that my wife has great health insurance from her company since I don't have any. She just got a great raise. Did you see my new Porsche?
(Nice car. Same color as Ted's.)

We should compare our investment finance strategies. I bet my day trading and my financial advisor does a lot better than your stodgy index funds.
(No sense. I'm sure your day trading and financial advisor are a lot more savvy about these things my boring old fashioned ways.)

j :oops:
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by firebirdparts »

I just accept that day trading is a full time job and as such, it doesn’t actually matter whether it works or not, unless that is the job you want. There are lots of skills and different patterns people use to do it. It’s pretty high stress. I simply never wanted to learn, as it didn’t seem like much fun to me. I already have a job.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by chw »

This is so 2000-2001ish... Wish your friend well, but don't jump in the pool with him. Day trading is a losers game, and 99.9% of the time does not end well for the trader. Even for those that have lucky streaks, behavioral bias sets in(thinking they have a golden strategy), and something they haven't considered sets in, and they are wiped out. As others have mentioned, come back in year or two and ask your friend how he's doing. If he's lucky, he got out with his shirt and maybe a modest gain, if not, he could be on his way to bankruptcy. Slow and steady is the rule for successful investing.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by White Coat Investor »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm A friend told me he has completely embraced day-trading and it’s been phenomenal for him. He said it is a “low risk” way to invest. Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.

He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way. And he holds stocks for an average of 15 minutes.

He also said he has a tool that shows him which stocks the big banks are purchasing, and he will jump in to those positions and then jump out.

I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before. I would love some insight to understand this strategy of investing. I have a small amount of envy hearing about the huge success this strategy has brought him.
What does "25% risk mean"? It means nothing.

If that tool worked effectively long-term everyone would be using it.

It's just cocktail party talk. Don't abandon a good plan due to FOMO. Day trading is a bad idea.
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TheoLeo
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by TheoLeo »

Actually I can see this working as long as the market in general is not in a heavy downward trajectory and trading costs are zero. In a sideways market it should beat the market. In a bear market it should beat the market. In a bull market it should underperform.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by bob60014 »

Random Musings wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:10 pm If only I could channel The Amazing Randi to look into this.

RM
He's still waiting for Uri's magic! :)

I just saw Randi passed the other day.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by mr_brightside »

chw wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:25 am This is so 2000-2001ish... Wish your friend well, but don't jump in the pool with him. Day trading is a losers game, and 99.9% of the time does not end well for the trader. Even for those that have lucky streaks, behavioral bias sets in(thinking they have a golden strategy), and something they haven't considered sets in, and they are wiped out. As others have mentioned, come back in year or two and ask your friend how he's doing. If he's lucky, he got out with his shirt and maybe a modest gain, if not, he could be on his way to bankruptcy. Slow and steady is the rule for successful investing.
agree

to add-- the 'trader' IME has a spouse with a 'real job' that pays well and has benefits like health insurance, dental, 401k, etc

it seems to work 'okay' when there is explosive volatility and the trader can make a bunch on a few lucky trades. but in a sideways market or 'down' market -- over many months - these guys lose their zeal

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remember Enron?? I do
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Random Musings
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Random Musings »

bob60014 wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:48 am
Random Musings wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:10 pm If only I could channel The Amazing Randi to look into this.

RM
He's still waiting for Uri's magic! :)

I just saw Randi passed the other day.
Yes, he recently passed. A great escape artist.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by rich126 »

I've mentioned this before but an ex-coworker wrote a book on day trading back in 1998-99 when the market was booming. Lets just sum up the reality of day trading. It is easy in a booming market, and virtually all of them lose money in a declining or bad market. And my friend certainly learned that lesson in 2000-1.

I'm not particularly conservation with investing, its been a while but I've dabbled in futures, and occasional use options but unless you have insider information you aren't going to make a living day trading. There are a ton of people out there with advanced computers, large staffs of mathematicians/engineers, etc. looking for every possible edge. You'd be better off buying indexes and buying an occasional lottery ticket or take a flyer on a tech stock. Or even studying and getting into fantasy gambling.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by cinghiale »

Random Musings wrote,
If only I could channel The Amazing Randi to look into this.
Poster bob60014 beat me to it, but, still, RIP James “The Amazing Randi.”

The British paper The Guardian had an excellent write-up on him today. I doubt the details would pass muster with the forum moderators, so I’ll leave it at recommending the piece.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Mr.BB »

Ask your friend about how many times they have had losses and are they subtracting trading and other fees in their totals.
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delamer
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by delamer »

How long has your friend been daytrading?

If it’s been 10 years and he can prove that he has more money now then if he”d invested his original stake in an S&P 500 fund, then you have my attention.

Otherwise, I’m dubious.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by BogleFan510 »

Sounds like a job. I enjoy activities that require that I go outside of cell phone range in wilderness areas for a few hours each day, so nope. A slow, passive few percent a year is a better deal for me than continuing to work a stressful job. I got paid pretty well for working, but still quit.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Nate79 »

I had a family member that claimed similar stuff. One word: liar.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by HippoSir »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.

He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way.
I admit I chuckled a bit at this. I suspect your friend is quite bad at math. I would not follow his strategy. :D
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by beernutz »

My, at the time unemployed, younger brother made $1.3 million day trading in 2020. However he was in the hole -$.5 million after starting to trade in late 2019.

He lucked out in that 1. he didn't give up like most sane people would have after being so deep in the red and 2. he lucked out in doing a lot of trades during the most robust runup in stock market history.

Luckily for him he got a full time job and quit day trading, then put all his money into real estate before he could pee it away.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. --Will Rogers
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Carguy85 »

I wonder how Dave Portnoy is doing day trading....anyone know? He was fairly sure of himself in an interview with one of the biz news outlets a few months back... I can’t tell if he is serious or just doing it for publicity/fun...he has plenty to play with no doubt.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by mr_brightside »

beernutz wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:00 pm My, at the time unemployed, younger brother made $1.3 million day trading in 2020. However he was in the hole -$.5 million after starting to trade in late 2019.

He lucked out in that 1. he didn't give up like most sane people would have after being so deep in the red and 2. he lucked out in doing a lot of trades during the most robust runup in stock market history.

Luckily for him he got a full time job and quit day trading, then put all his money into real estate before he could pee it away.

that's a great example. it shows how you CAN make it work for a while... but long term is a whole other story

i hope the real estate works out for him -- did he invest in commercial or residential ??

----------------------------------------------------
remember Enron?? I do
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by pkcrafter »

BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm A friend told me he has completely embraced day-trading and it’s been phenomenal for him. He said it is a “low risk” way to invest. Basically, he sets limits. If his stock holding drops $1, he’ll sell. On the other end, he sets a $5 maximum gain limit.

When he sells, what does he do with the money? What does he do when he hits the $5 gain limit, sell or take profit? How does he choose the next stock?

He says there is only a 25% risk by investing this way. And he holds stocks for an average of 15 minutes.

Is he talking about the risk of loss, or is he talking about the max percent of loss?

He also said he has a tool that shows him which stocks the big banks are purchasing, and he will jump in to those positions and then jump out.

Yep, sure fire winner. I'd hate to see his tax records.

I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before. I would love some insight to understand this strategy of investing. I have a small amount of envy hearing about the huge success this strategy has brought him.

Uh-uh

Sounds like he's been doing this for a long time and has been very successful
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

as successful as he might be, if he's only day trading then he's leaving money on the table because he should be night trading too:

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answer ... this-time/
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 »

If you can read “The Little Book of Common Sense Investing “ that might help. It helped me.
Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by unclescrooge »

beernutz wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:00 pm My, at the time unemployed, younger brother made $1.3 million day trading in 2020. However he was in the hole -$.5 million after starting to trade in late 2019.

He lucked out in that 1. he didn't give up like most sane people would have after being so deep in the red and 2. he lucked out in doing a lot of trades during the most robust runup in stock market history.

Luckily for him he got a full time job and quit day trading, then put all his money into real estate before he could pee it away.
Nice!

Older friend of mine who's a CPA made a million dollars on Tesla stocks earlier this year.

Used the money to buy a Porsche. And then pissed away the gains on other trades that went against him. :oops:
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by mr_brightside »

unclescrooge wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:28 am
beernutz wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:00 pm My, at the time unemployed, younger brother made $1.3 million day trading in 2020. However he was in the hole -$.5 million after starting to trade in late 2019.

He lucked out in that 1. he didn't give up like most sane people would have after being so deep in the red and 2. he lucked out in doing a lot of trades during the most robust runup in stock market history.

Luckily for him he got a full time job and quit day trading, then put all his money into real estate before he could pee it away.
Nice!

Older friend of mine who's a CPA made a million dollars on Tesla stocks earlier this year.

Used the money to buy a Porsche. And then pissed away the gains on other trades that went against him. :oops:

YOLO whoooo hooooo ! :oops:
remember Enron?? I do
flyingcows
Posts: 161
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by flyingcows »

If he was my friend, I would feel sorry for him. That is how I react when I am in your situtation, depending on how well I know the person I try to act as a voice of reason.

I hope your friend has a soft landing
260chrisb
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by 260chrisb »

cheese_breath wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:01 pm
BogleBuddy12 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:51 pm ... I have never quite seen this topic discussed on Bogleheads before....
Enter the words day trading in the google box upper right, and you will see it discussed several times.
This has been discussed many, many times! Obviously the OP doesn't understand the context of this forum. Want to dat trade? Well, day trade. You may do well. My guess is you will not. Everybody knows somebody who has day traded. I'm guessing everybody knows somebody who has been unsuccessful at it as well. Good luck.
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PicassoSparks
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by PicassoSparks »

The most recent Ben Felix video has a lot of great sources on how day traders actually perform, sourced by real studies. Surprising no one on this forum the answer is: not good. What really surprising is exactly how not good the performance is, and how few manage to have a positive outcome at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhHOmZVAqBE
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galawdawg
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by galawdawg »

Remember the Bogleheads Investing Philosophy:

1. Develop a workable plan
2. Invest early and often
3. Never bear too much or too little risk
4. Diversify
5. Never try to time the market
6. Use index funds when possible
7. Keep costs low
8. Minimize taxes
9. Invest with simplicity
10. Stay the course

Day trading bears too much risk, it does not provide sufficient diversity, it relies heavily on market timing, it shuns index funds, costs and taxes can be high, it is not investing with simplicity and it is the polar opposite of staying the course. That's why true Bogleheads don't engage in day trading.

And those who are caught up in the FOMO, envy or jealousy based upon what are exaggerated or untrue boasts by day traders are wise to consider what Jack Bogle had to say about avoiding speculative trading...
“Investor emotions plus fund industry promotions equals trouble.”
interwebopinion
Posts: 88
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by interwebopinion »

The one key trick to be a successful day trader is to brag about the winners, bury the losers and hide actual performance data. It's marketing at its finest. If you write a book or sell seminars, then you make the real money.

BTW, this trick is shared with PE funds, hedge funds and VCs. The difference is that day traders are chumps who don't get fat advisory fees.
PicassoSparks wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:00 am The most recent Ben Felix video has a lot of great sources on how day traders actually perform, sourced by real studies. Surprising no one on this forum the answer is: not good. What really surprising is exactly how not good the performance is, and how few manage to have a positive outcome at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhHOmZVAqBE
Hyperchicken
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Re: Friend’s Investment Strategy Envy

Post by Hyperchicken »

"How to make a small fortune day-trading." :D
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